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Old 07-18-2018, 07:13 AM   #761
Conspiracy Victim Vito
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Noid - just do yourself a favor and watch Minoru Suzuki’s matches before throwing in the towel on the company over one match
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:12 AM   #762
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I LOVE everything I’ve seen from Suzuki. And I think Tanahashi is one of the best babyfaces I have ever seen. I may have been hasty earlier. I like a lot of stuff I’ve seen from New Japan. I’m just worried the compass is set and the trends in WWE and New Japan are going to mirror each other.

I might give ZSJ and Ibushi a go. I feel it might have more of a story I can bite into.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:21 AM   #763
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Well worth checking that match out. While I'm not a fan of Kevin Kelly, one thing I do appreciate is that he tends to bring up past match history between guys when they have singles matches and quite often the matches build on each other. You get a real sense that the wrestlers actually learn and improve from mistakes in previous matches.

As opposed to WWE, where the same two guys can wrestle several weeks in a row and have the same exact match every time.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:23 AM   #764
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Noid, let's not act like you aren't looking to nitpick Omega matches before you even watch them. It's compulsive.
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Old 07-18-2018, 05:26 PM   #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #BrotherVito DELETED View Post
Well worth checking that match out. While I'm not a fan of Kevin Kelly, one thing I do appreciate is that he tends to bring up past match history between guys when they have singles matches and quite often the matches build on each other. You get a real sense that the wrestlers actually learn and improve from mistakes in previous matches.

As opposed to WWE, where the same two guys can wrestle several weeks in a row and have the same exact match every time.
Kevin Kelly seems like he tries to bring in some history. I donít like him as a play-by-play guy, but he tries in that ďProfessorĒ role. Michael Cole does a similar thing when left to his own devices.

Thatís true about them building off their previous work. I havenít seen any other Baito/Omega match so I donít have context for that. I donít think it would help me enjoy the style any more, but it might give me something to appreciate. I loved it when Styles, Nakamura and Bryan did that earlier this year. It does happen Iím WWE sometimes, but as a general rule I think youíre right.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:14 PM   #766
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My thoughts. If you don't want to read them don't read them. They're not positive:

SPOILER: show

* Kevin Kelly doing his best to add to the conflict. Good stuff. Then he goes into the Meltzer scale. These guys are equally matched -- there's a good point there. Don't need to hear "5 and 3/4 stars" being uttered seriously though.

* Who is the third person on commentary? They fucking suck.

* Callis bringing up "7 stars." Fuck off. The goal of wrestling is not to have a good match. Your goal is to hype the product, sure, but hyperbole can make things inaccessible too. "The greatest match of all-time." It wasn't. Get people expecting that and they will be disappointed.

* "Is Kenny Omega the greatest IWGP Heavyweight Champion of all-time?" Fucking hell, Callis is awful.

* Naito charismatic as hell, by the way.

* "You can't escape." That's lame.

* Fuck, he did it twice. Hahahaha.

* Omega's doing the faces now.

* This has been very WWE style so far. Lots of spots that happen for the sake of doing the spots. Naito spat in Omega's face and then turned away. Omega holds up the mats so Naito can jump into him. It's lacking that fight psychology that I'm a huge fan of.

* Kenny with a springboard crossbody into the crowd. It feels like they've done this so many times before though. And indeed commentary points that out. Is there a secret to emotionally investing in this?

* I saw a move I really liked. Omega hit this delayed gutwrench powerbomb. Then that third dick on commentary has to make sure he inserts it's called "The Dr. Wily Bomb" and Callis is such an ass-crawler that he adjusts his call.

* I just can't understand how these string of moves doesn't feel repetitive to people in 2018. This is my exact problem with WWE.

* My thoughts keep going to Ziggler/Rollins. If that match happened in New Japan, it would probably be better. Or if Omega/Naito happened in WWE, it would be considered about on par with that.

* Callis finally makes a good call when he sees Naito's foot hooking the turnbuckle.

* You mean one finisher didn't do it?! No way! Destino is a silly move, by the way. Looks more effort to hit than a normal Reverse DDT.

* Why keep going for a move where you put yourself on the guy's shoulders for his move?

* Hahaha, Naito tried his silly finisher again and got dropped on his head. Maybe he's learnt a lesson?

* I think what bothers me about this spotty style is that when you know the moves are safe, as presumably the audience secretly does, then just doing a move and getting a two count is arbitrary. Anyone can do it. The artistry in a false finish is in knowing when and how to do a move that would normally get a three count yet doesn't. I don't think Kenny Omega has ever won a match with the Jay Driller. Maybe he has, but I don't expect that to be the finish of an Omega/Naito match. This would be like The Rock beating Austin with his Samoan drop.

* If I had to rank the match, and I use a cinematic 1-4 scale, with 4 being great, 3 being good, 2 being average, 1 being bad, and 0 being awful, I'd probably give it **. It really did feel like an "average match" by today's standards. The execution was good, and it did get the crowd into it, but the psychology and the story were just not there, despite Kelly trying to introduce it at the start. There was nothing from Naito or Omega that really added to that.

* I don't think modern wrestling is for me. It feels like TNA's X-Division has taken over the main event and is presented like serious drama instead of popcorn filler. I've watched a bit of 90's Japan recently, and the emotion and the drama hooked me instantly. It felt like there were great stakes. You hear that Japanese crowds are quiet. Not so when watching the stuff they really care about. None of that drama was mined here. This was a WWE-style match with WWE-style commentary. The presentation was great. It felt like they wanted it to have a sporting environment, but the sporting psychology was just not there. Most of the things (not everything) they did was crisp, but I just can't get into guys hitting obscure drivers and then being surprised when they don't get the win when there hasn't been at least two finishers in 2018. I really want New Japan to succeed, but it feels like more of the same. I don't think it's for me.
I can totally understand why that match and other NJPW big matches lately remind you of WWE style. I like to call it American Crash style because they are still doing a much more edgy match than WWE does. I don't agree with all your opinions but they are valid and I appreciate you actually sitting down and watching to try it out.

There certainly is a new style creeping into NJPW that wouldn't jive with the traditional strong style NJPW built its foundation on. Strong Style Evolved? Sure that title works.

I could critique NJPW on pushing so many on-Japanese Stars right now, it doesn't bother me but it's noticeable.

Omega says it all the time, he's not a great wrestler, that there are many better than him. He is a phenomenal talent that has enough wherewithal to understand what he needs to do to have the best match possible. His matches stand out and when he is working with a guy who is a great wrestler (Okada, Natio) he's having phenomenal matches, the best in the world, he's evolving wrestling to something bigger.

On commentary... I used to really be harsh on Kevin Kelly but the more I get into the product the more I have to attribute that to him. His knowledge and education during commentary is fantastic. It is odd to hear wrestlers and announcers talk about match ratings, but that is a part of NJPW... Kenny's gimmick is "Best Bout Machine", and it draws big time for them. It works, and it's legit, a lot of people tune in to NJPW to see the best matches and they don't hide the fact that amazing matches is what sets them apart from WWE.

The commentator you don't like is Rocky Romero and I can totally understand why, he has no finesse. But for myself I do enjoy having him there to educate me on the characters and product.

The only concern I have for NJPW right now (and for the past 3 years) is that I don't see the next great Japanese superstar. They have to hang onto Tanahashi, and rightfully so, he's the legit ace of NJPW. They have Okada, Suzuki and Naito but beyond that I don't see the next guy, which is why there are so many non-Japanese stars filling the roster right now. I do agree that they should push the best talent they have regardless of nationality but I want to see the next great Japanese star. Any of you guys see that star on the horizon?
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:52 PM   #767
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Look to the young lions. The current crop of top stars has more than enough years left in them for the young guys to develop and reach their potential.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:55 PM   #768
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Seems the Japanese talent have a slower progression than the foreign talent. I'm a big fan of Taichi and he seems ready to make that next step but alot of the gaijins seem to be ahead of him. Sho and Yoh spring to mind as far as the most successful Japanese youngboys to have success but both are juniors and are probably 3-5 years from moving up I'd say. Of course you've got Ibushi who has moved up and maybe Kushida might move up eventually. I don't think Okada is going away for a while though so as far as a new Japanese Ace goes he's probably the best bet.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:58 PM   #769
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Look to the young lions. The current crop of top stars has more than enough years left in them for the young guys to develop and reach their potential.
That's another thing, the past few years most the young loins have been gaijins. This group looks to have mostly Japanese guys, or atleast I haven't seen any non Japanese ones.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:58 PM   #770
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Progression is slower, but its also extremely effective.
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:07 PM   #771
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I've heard that buzz about Sanada and possibly Ibushi if he signs exclusively with them. I don't think they'll be willing to slow down with Okada anytime soon. He's taking a break from the belt at the moment, but it's still his promotion.

Thanks for your reasoned response that doesn't just tear into me because I'm not on the dick right away. When they treat it like a real sport, New Japan tickles my jollies just fine. But I'm afraid of commiting to a product that is going to hurt me by shifting more and more towards that "American Crash" style (I like that descriptor).

Omega rubs me the wrong way, because I think he sounds like an idiot in interviews and his facials and promos are horrible. He's clearly crisp in the ring, but I just think his work is overall overrated. He'd make a fine addition to any roster, but there's this talk of him being the best wrestler in the world. He's a good enough worker that to the audience that watches wrestling he's endeared himself enough to warrant a run with the IWGP Heavyweight Title. I don't get the psychology of being "The Best Bout Machine." I think it's a great talking point for announcers when trying to hype a fight between two guys that push each other to their limits, but the psychology of a wrestling match should be to win as effectively as possible. I'd take his "Terminator" vibes over the BBM stuff any day, even though I don't think he fits the Terminator thing at all.

He's done really well in New Japan. He's helping them get back up there. They've been doing bigger gates at the Tokyo Dome. They're yet to sell it out, to my understanding, but I do hope they get there. Sincerely. I want the gap closed between WWE and New Japan, which is why I am considering supporting them financially even if I don't watch the product. The gaijin stars help with that. Giving Omega focus, bringing in Jericho, Mysterio, etc. certainly gives more casual viewers that hook. It's not an entirely unfamiliar world with guys whose names you can't pronounce -- it's some of the biggest stars wrestling has ever seen.

I do appreciate the effort Kelly puts in around his performances. I think he'd grow on me. There are just some awkward pauses and he needs to compromise for Callis. With a different partner, maybe he would be excellent. I wouldn't mind seeing him do it with Jim Ross, actually. Kelly can keep the facts straight and JR can bring the emotion to things and make sure that there is no dead air when Kelly is thinking about what to do next.

I'm actually surprised to hear it was Rocky Romero. I thought it was a Young Buck or someone. Thanks for that.

I'm worried that the New Japan love is a fad. Not to call everyone flippant or frivilous -- I know there are people who have followed it for a long time and will continue to regardless of what happens. I can just see something changing tone in WWE, or with another Japanese promotion, or domestically, that kind of leaves New Japan in a compromised position of "What have you done for me lately?" I wonder how much of its current goodwill comes from a "Not WWE" mentality? I know that helps me want to root for them. Gedo has also been booking for a while now, and while he's quite brilliant, I wouldn't want him to get burnt out or stuck in his own tropes either. I've already seen "Typical New Japan" comments in passing around places.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:48 PM   #772
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Some of Omegas stuff does come off as cheesy, but I've wondered if its just cultural. People in Japan obviously eat it up, so what looks and sounds silly to us may be interpreted differently to them. Or maybe its just as silly and they just love that shit.

Either way, while I don't blame anyone for being off put by it, I don't blame him for doing it since he's just playing to his audience.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:50 PM   #773
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Part of me hopes it doesn't close the gap with WWE because then you run the risk of it becoming what WWE is now. In fact, it would almost have to.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:55 PM   #774
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I get what you're saying, but I think he could get away with not doing it and be completely fine. I hope that they get enough success to boost their audience with the product that brought them to the dance, and have enough success that Vince pays enough attention to start trying. I think there is a market for wrestling that isn't the sideshow circus Vince runs.
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Old 07-18-2018, 11:20 PM   #775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
Some of Omegas stuff does come off as cheesy, but I've wondered if its just cultural. People in Japan obviously eat it up, so what looks and sounds silly to us may be interpreted differently to them. Or maybe its just as silly and they just love that shit.

Either way, while I don't blame anyone for being off put by it, I don't blame him for doing it since he's just playing to his audience.
He did used to be mainly a comedic wrestler there considering his long stint in DDT and kept some of that persona when he made the transition into becoming more of a serious wrestler in recent years.

He's probably more Taguchi-lite than someone like Yano in terms of comedic wrestling now.
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:19 PM   #776
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Jesus, New Japan keep kayfabe even during 10 bell salutes. Only the New Japan Seikigun/Home Army/Non-Stable guys were allowed to go to the ring to honor Saito.
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:10 PM   #777
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Naito/Ishii was awesome.
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Old 07-20-2018, 07:13 PM   #778
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Old 07-21-2018, 02:30 PM   #779
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My favorite match so far was Goto/Omega followed by ZSJ/Suzuki.

Almost want to complain that there is too much to keep up with!
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Old 07-21-2018, 02:56 PM   #780
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Nothing like Ishii and Goto slugging the shit out of each other.
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:01 PM   #781
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There’s so much to keep up with but it’s so damn worth it.
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:12 PM   #782
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:04 AM   #783
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Poor knife pervert
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Old 07-22-2018, 08:10 PM   #784
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Love that tana vs tale finish
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:25 PM   #785
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Just finished watching White-Suzuki from earlier today and White pretty much had a death wish going on with the constant pissing off of Suzuki. Guess Suzuki's limit is a low blow attempt since he KOed White with right hook afterwards.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:56 PM   #786
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Man this tourney has been fun.

Shame Hasney has quit TPWW so he can't discuss it with us.
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:45 AM   #787
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Why did he quit?
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Old 07-23-2018, 01:17 AM   #788
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Probably a mix of attrition from watching WWE, lack of big interest here for non-WWE stuff, and likely some similar reasons why others got tired of TPWW.

He's on another wrestling board/thread that I lurk at and its a lot more diverse for wrestling related stuff.
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:16 AM   #789
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Zsj vs sanada was short but damn that was fun
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:41 AM   #790
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God damn that juice vs naito match
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Old 07-23-2018, 03:26 AM   #791
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Think the only thing more reliable than the sun coming up is the Goto vs Ishii match up always delivering.

Every fucking time, my god.
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Old 07-23-2018, 07:49 AM   #792
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I've got a soft spot for Ishii.
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Old 07-23-2018, 07:50 AM   #793
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Agh... life is getting between me and G1... too many shows to keep up and watch everything right now. I'll have to check back in on this possibly at the end of this week.
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:29 AM   #794
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Old 07-23-2018, 04:35 PM   #795
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Been impressed with yoshi hashi in this g-1. Typically, few people on the roster get me nonplussed like hashi, but he's stepped up his game more than ever and I'm enjoying all his matches in this tournament.
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:47 PM   #796
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Genuinely popped for Yoshi going over Elgin. Fuck Elgin.
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Old 07-26-2018, 01:29 PM   #797
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Besides Omega and the Young Bucks, looks like the WWE also has their eyes on Juice Robinson according to the Observer's Dave Meltzer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer
The company also has great interest in Juice Robinson. Robinson has started to appear the last few weeks as a cast member in Being the Elite, which seems to be the best avenue to raise the American profile for an independent wrestler. It didn’t work out for Robinson the first time he was there, but even then, in Dusty Rhodes’ interview classes he was considered the best. His current profile is the biggest it’s ever been by far based off the reaction to his interviews and his recent matches, particularly the Cow Palace match with Jay White and the reaction it got. A number of New Japan regulars actually aren’t under contract, similar to A.J. Styles when he was there, so legally WWE can approach them without it being tampering. Others it has to be more nuanced, but they are making plays right now.

Meltzer also reported NJPW is likely going to make a strong push to get Shinsuke Nakamura back when his current WWE contract expires in a few months from now.
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Old 07-26-2018, 03:49 PM   #798
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Hope nobody goes to WWE. Ever. Except KES, wouldn't miss them.
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Old 07-26-2018, 05:19 PM   #799
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I could see Juice going back. Hope he doesn't. Really enjoying his work as of late.
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Old 07-26-2018, 05:26 PM   #800
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Conversely, I don't want to see Nakamura's go back quite yet. There are things Id like to see from him in wwe before he goes back. The match with Bryan being at the forefront. A title run would be nice. Finally, I've noticed that he and Orton really click well together, whether as a team or against each other. Now that they're both heels it could be a good time to revisit that team and create a new power duo akin to edge and Jericho.
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