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Old 11-12-2021, 05:06 PM   #6681
Destor
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there are enough women that if they truly cared to they could make womens sports the dominant platform with out male viewership. the fact that they havent tells you everything you need to know. if it were interesting people would be interested
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Old 11-12-2021, 05:06 PM   #6682
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so to blame AEWs office is a bit of a joke
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Old 11-13-2021, 04:38 PM   #6683
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Tony Khan is a goober.
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Old 11-14-2021, 02:33 PM   #6684
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Old 11-14-2021, 07:57 PM   #6685
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clearly a correct observation then
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Old 11-15-2021, 02:45 PM   #6686
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Hearing scuttlebutt that Omega is going to be taking time off to rest up and heal from lingering injuries after he defends his Triple A title on December 4. If true, it’s a well deserved rest. But it also means AEW is down another main eventer for the foreseeable future.

Could potentially be a good thing since people have been complaining about too much roster bloat. See who else flourishes during the time. But not having Mox and Omega after both have had amazing runs is tough to replace.
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Old 11-15-2021, 02:54 PM   #6687
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allowing guys to take time off i think is a very good thing. and not from a "theyre so over worked stand point." it keeps them fresh. in times gone you could go to another territory and work for 6 months and come back a bigger deal than when you left simply because of absence truly making the heart grow fonder.
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Old 11-15-2021, 02:58 PM   #6688
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I wish AEW would take some time off to freshen itself up.
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Old 11-15-2021, 05:19 PM   #6689
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My conclusions after watching AEW since Punk's debut:

I could never in a million years have imagined wasting an opportunity as big as that one, and failing to capitalize on potentially having new/old viewers watching your program. You get him and then just aimlessly force him onto your shows, including even just doing commentary. He finally does something and stands up to a heel Bobby Fish beating up a jobber (despite having previous opportunitites at standing up to heels whilst on commentary), they have a match with a controversial ending.... but that is dropped to build a hurried two week deep-seated blood feud vs Eddie Kingston.

Daniel Bryan has been handled a bit better, but should never have been mixed up with the world title/main event scene when he debuted, because then taking him out of it for someone else is just an immediate step down/disappointment. Should have just skipped that part and his run would actually be quite excellent, building him up via having him wrestle a bunch of bangers and beating people with different moves... building him up until eventually putting him in the spot to earn the contendership. Instead, took him out of the picture and gave the shot to another dude... but at the same time already put Bryan in the spot to earn the next shot even before the current contender had his shot, which overshadows that match because you are already looking back onto Bryan and caring about that and not the current world title match.

Speaking of their world champ, he felt like an afterthought almost the entire time I watched. Meanwhile you have Hangman Adam Page involved with the intolerable Dark Order, and not doing anything at all to build him up or get him over... barely even building up the match vs Omega until the very last week before the PPV when they figured they should do something. I know there is the supposed "long form storytelling" that they were semi-trying to push via commentary and some short video packages.... but I don't buy it for one second. More likely they saw that viral post that someone has posted here a few times about Hangman's "journey", and decided to run with it. Wouldn't be the first time I saw that they have leaned into memes/internet things and run with it. Which would even be fine in itself if they actually put any effort into pushing that angle instead of just assuming that everyone knew what it was all about.

As for the rassling itself, no doubt about it they have some good stuff. The more flippy/choreographed stuff of Young Bucks/Lucha Bros/Adam Cole/etc is personally not for me, I get burnt out on it real fast... but if you enjoy it more power to you. There was still some good stuff that was not of that style too. They do suffer from a problem of booking matches to have guys look "all equal". Even jobber/squash matches the jobber more often than not gets a lot of offense to make it seem like a "tough win", because more than anything they seem to want to get a "this is awesome" chant every match (which, granted is not too hard these days).

The fans of AEW are both a blessing and curse. It is awesome to hear a loud crowd, and it can't be overstated how much that actually gets you into matches/a show. At the same time, they are the "annoying" modern rassling crowd who will chant "this is awesome" and "fight forever" at the drop of a hat. At the PPV a few tried to chant "You still got it" at Arn Anderson when he delivered a few punches to Andrade's manager, thankfully it didn't take off.

Something AEW is missing/lacking is the ability to tell stories and get over their characters. Which partly goes back to the fans just getting into anything, so they feel like they don't have to get them over/sell them to a potential TV audience. AEW is great at booking their shows and always telling you what is coming up on the next Rampage/Dynamite.... which is great from a "wrestling" perspective and "live show perspective", but not for an "entertaining television program" perspective. You need to have a bit of that spontaneity and unexpectedness... even if it is cookie cutter WWE "Wrestler A interrupts Wrestler B, Authority Figure makes a match..... COMING UP NEXT!!"

AEW does a lot of "assuming that you know" who people are and what things are about. May seem like "talking down" in WWE, but you do have to do a lot of repetition and spelling things out to build your characters/stories/brand.

Think I said it in some other thread... AEW seems to succeed despite itself. Which is great for them, and great for those that enjoy it. It just seems to be a self-fulfilling prophecy driven by memes and internet culture, and should the cool thing on the internet ever turn to be against them they would need to make some major changes. Even if they wanted to grow beyond their current ratings/fanbase they would need to make major changes.

I think overall what I'd say is...... AEW is the better wrestling show, especially if you were to go to it live. While WWE is the better television program. If you want "wrestling", watch AEW. If you want "entertainment" and "characters" watch WWE.
Last edited by Lock Jaw; 11-15-2021 at 10:51 PM.
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Old 11-15-2021, 05:23 PM   #6690
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Not sure if I should continue watching AEW or not. Made my "commitment" to give them until their "big PPV"....
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Old 11-15-2021, 06:04 PM   #6691
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Thanks for sharing your honest take with us, Lock Jaw. That was worth the read.
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Old 11-15-2021, 08:02 PM   #6692
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Yeah I guess that's fair. Fair for a fair weather fan who wasn't there from the beginning. You have no connection to AEW because you aren't invited. You don't know the language we speak around the dinner table.

You have got to be kidding me? You want an authority figure gimmick making matches mid show? Hey guess what Jaw, you can subscribe to peacock and watch hours and hours of 2014 WWE. GO AHEAD do it and then tell us how good you feel about the way you've spent the precious hours of your life.

This has to be a joke right? Are you a comedy blogger because I am laughing so hard I can't believe it. The part where you talked about an inability to creat and get over characters is what got a deep and hearty guffaw out of me!

Have you ever heard of Orange Cassidy? He's barely lifts a finger and AEW fans Road Warrior pop all over his nuts. I'm talking about MJF, who barely opens his mouth before five thousand people tell him in unison to shut the fuck up! Hey what about that ROH guy Adam Page who gets the girls wet and makes all the guys hard? He walks out and everyone spills a beer jumping up and down screaming COWBOY SHIT.

AND you make that one joke about how the voice of AEW is too giving with praise. When you are a part of the AEW multiverse live in attendance you are no longer a singular individual but you are assigned to take hold of a spot in a grander universal consciousness and all voices become one. Trust me I know, I was at Arthur Ashe.

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Old 11-15-2021, 08:15 PM   #6693
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Picturing a scenario where Lock Jaw turns against AEW and becomes a shit poster, but is constantly a show behind in his trolling. Just shitting all over Rampage in the Dynamite thread.
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Old 11-15-2021, 08:17 PM   #6694
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Lock Jaw is the frontrunner for KOTF after that analysis.
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Old 11-15-2021, 08:25 PM   #6695
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is Jordan X doing a bit or is he a giant mark? if its a gimmick bravo
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Old 11-15-2021, 08:53 PM   #6696
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Quote:
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is Jordan X doing a bit or is he a giant mark? if its a gimmick bravo
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Old 11-15-2021, 09:32 PM   #6697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme Olajuwon View Post
Hearing scuttlebutt that Omega is going to be taking time off to rest up and heal from lingering injuries after he defends his Triple A title on December 4. If true, it’s a well deserved rest. But it also means AEW is down another main eventer for the foreseeable future.

Could potentially be a good thing since people have been complaining about too much roster bloat. See who else flourishes during the time. But not having Mox and Omega after both have had amazing runs is tough to replace.
Adam Cole is right there to toss him from the Elite and take his place as the to heel on the company. Omega deserves some time away and it’ll freshen him up.
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Old 11-15-2021, 10:37 PM   #6698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey 2.0 View Post
Adam Cole is right there to toss him from the Elite and take his place as the to heel on the company. Omega deserves some time away and it’ll freshen him up.
The problem is the same he faced in NXT, yes he can do heel things, but he is just too over to ever be a true heel. Thats not a knock on him, he is just too good at what he does.
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Old 11-15-2021, 10:50 PM   #6699
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Old 11-15-2021, 11:28 PM   #6700
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Old 11-16-2021, 03:17 AM   #6701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
is Jordan X doing a bit or is he a giant mark? if its a gimmick bravo
Convinced it is a gimmick. He said AEW was “perfect” in another thread. It must be at least a little in jest.
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Old 11-16-2021, 03:19 AM   #6702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
Yeah I guess that's fair. Fair for a fair weather fan who wasn't there from the beginning. You have no connection to AEW because you aren't invited. You don't know the language we speak around the dinner table.

You have got to be kidding me? You want an authority figure gimmick making matches mid show? Hey guess what Jaw, you can subscribe to peacock and watch hours and hours of 2014 WWE. GO AHEAD do it and then tell us how good you feel about the way you've spent the precious hours of your life.

This has to be a joke right? Are you a comedy blogger because I am laughing so hard I can't believe it. The part where you talked about an inability to creat and get over characters is what got a deep and hearty guffaw out of me!

Have you ever heard of Orange Cassidy? He's barely lifts a finger and AEW fans Road Warrior pop all over his nuts. I'm talking about MJF, who barely opens his mouth before five thousand people tell him in unison to shut the fuck up! Hey what about that ROH guy Adam Page who gets the girls wet and makes all the guys hard? He walks out and everyone spills a beer jumping up and down screaming COWBOY SHIT.

AND you make that one joke about how the voice of AEW is too giving with praise. When you are a part of the AEW multiverse live in attendance you are no longer a singular individual but you are assigned to take hold of a spot in a grander universal consciousness and all voices become one. Trust me I know, I was at Arthur Ashe.
Holy shit, this is hilarious. I thought it was meant to put down AEW until I saw it was you posting. Good one.
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Old 11-16-2021, 07:35 AM   #6703
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Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post

AEW does a lot of "assuming that you know" who people are and what things are about. May seem like "talking down" in WWE, but you do have to do a lot of repetition and spelling things out to build your characters/stories/brand.
I 100p agree with this. At the very least they seem to assume that everyone who watches Dynamite also watches Dark, Dark: Elevation, and Being the Elite (and I guess maybe Rampage, but I watch that and not the three online shows).
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Old 11-16-2021, 08:51 AM   #6704
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Interested in seeing what happens to Omega now that his reign is over. What most people expect is for him eventually take time off. There's been talk of Kenny working hurt for a long time, and it's lucky that it coincided with him turning heel, as it meant he could slow his pace and scale back on some of the high impact stuff (within reason, as he's still Kenny Omega and that stuff is his bread and butter).

Earlier in the year he was working through a hernia, a tailbone injury, and nagging knee problems, and I can't imagine much of that has got any better with time.
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Old 11-16-2021, 08:59 AM   #6705
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Purely in terms of timing, I think it would make sense to take Kenny out now fresh off of losing the belt, but also Cole and the Bucks lost on Saturday too so the whole "better man taking control" angle probably wouldn't be the best way to explain it.

But they've also just lost Moxley for an indefinite amount of time, could see why they'd be hesitant to be down another major player but with the size of the roster I think they're well equipped to absorb it in the short term, plus they might have more signings and eventualities on the horizon too.

He wouldn't be totally out of action anyway as he's also got a AAA title defense against El Hijo Del Vikingo next month that I'm not expecting him to lose, plus they've got Battle of the Belts in January that will probably be an all hands on deck type of deal and I think there might be a heavy AEW involvement at Wrestle Kingdom. So maybe all of this gets out of the way before they pull the trigger on a write-off.
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Old 11-16-2021, 09:02 AM   #6706
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There's also the question of whether Kyle O'Reilly or Kevin Steen end up coming in. We could end up with Cole ditching The Elite altogether and doing Cole/reDragon vs. Omega/Bucks, or even flip that and have a babyface Omega recruit reDragon against Adam Cole and the Young Bucks. If Steen comes in, does he reform Mount Rushmore with Cole and the Bucks, or come in against them? Plenty of ways things can play out if those guys sign.

At some point, though, I can picture a babyface Omega seeking out Hangman's help for a tag team match against the Young Bucks. Before that, if Omega does end up sticking around rather than taking time off, I can see him doing an Inoki-style "redemption" story where he loses everything and has to start at the bottom and work his way back up.
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Old 11-16-2021, 09:16 AM   #6707
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It seems like we are going to see a program where Hangman and The Bucks are becoming "cool" with each other again and perhaps Cole goes really hard as a heel and creates a divide in The Elite. Kenny should end up coming back and facing off with Cole for establish the leader of the group.

I'm not a big fan of bringing in Undisputed Era for a main AEW story but it being mentioned doesn't bother me.

Also I don't think that with Mox and Kenny down for a few weeks that AEW will suffer. They have enough stars without them for a little while.

I think it would be cool if Kenny stayed out of AEW until after Wrestle Kingdom where he could win a big match and "get his fire back".
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Old 11-16-2021, 02:13 PM   #6708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
It seems like we are going to see a program where Hangman and The Bucks are becoming "cool" with each other again and perhaps Cole goes really hard as a heel and creates a divide in The Elite. Kenny should end up coming back and facing off with Cole for establish the leader of the group.

I'm not a big fan of bringing in Undisputed Era for a main AEW story but it being mentioned doesn't bother me.

Also I don't think that with Mox and Kenny down for a few weeks that AEW will suffer. They have enough stars without them for a little while.

I think it would be cool if Kenny stayed out of AEW until after Wrestle Kingdom where he could win a big match and "get his fire back".
Mox hasnt done anything significant since the sparklers anyways.
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Old 11-16-2021, 03:32 PM   #6709
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Lol, with the ratings declining, there’s a new movement in the AEW fandom to shut down talk of ratings/other business metrics. The goal is to shame people who care about the performance of something and those who don’t pretend the product is engaging enough to discuss solely as content.

You’ve seen it on these boards a couple of times. It’s fucking weird and a little disgusting, honestly.

People are interested in what they are interested in. Some people find the business side of things interesting — sometimes more interesting than the actual wrestling.

You also hear the common line “As long as they stay on the air, I don’t care about ratings.” Well, that’s what people are discussing.

But more and more you see AEW fanboys trying to push the conversation away from things wrestling fans have discussed for years. Because it doesn’t make their promotion look good.
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Old 11-16-2021, 08:31 PM   #6710
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Actually if you look at it honestly and objectively the real mark of a great wrestling company isn't their ratings weekly, who cares about that? I don't and not anyone here that I can tell.

We care about the characters, the respect to wrestling and it's past, the stories, the pops and the chanting. That's all that matters to about everyone in the AEW Multiverse.

AEW definitely has better chants than WWE as well as all the other stuff I mentioned like characters, stories and pops. Also AEW definitely uses the ring apron a lot better than WWE. Lots of sick drops on the apron.

But really why would ratings matter? What am I an Ad Executive for Papa John's or Wendy's? Outside of that actually the ratings are moot point.

Truly I only care that AEW does well enough to stay featured on cable, if they over succeed and get more than WWE it's cool. Even when AEW beats a Raw or Smackdown on a particular week or doesn't mean they are better or bigger than WWE. Its a guestimated concept that has no bearing on if I enjoy AEW which produces much better wrestling than WWE.
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Old 11-16-2021, 08:55 PM   #6711
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Cody has quit twitter and this fan has thoughts...
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Old 11-16-2021, 09:05 PM   #6712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
People are interested in what they are interested in.
"But fuck AEW and all it stands for, how can anyone possibly like this. I dont like it therefore no one can like it and im going to write a war and peace reply to anything and everything AEW etc. etc. etc... "

- Also Noid -
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Old 11-16-2021, 10:10 PM   #6713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
Lol, with the ratings declining, there’s a new movement in the AEW fandom to shut down talk of ratings/other business metrics. The goal is to shame people who care about the performance of something and those who don’t pretend the product is engaging enough to discuss solely as content.

You’ve seen it on these boards a couple of times. It’s fucking weird and a little disgusting, honestly.

People are interested in what they are interested in. Some people find the business side of things interesting — sometimes more interesting than the actual wrestling.

You also hear the common line “As long as they stay on the air, I don’t care about ratings.” Well, that’s what people are discussing.

But more and more you see AEW fanboys trying to push the conversation away from things wrestling fans have discussed for years. Because it doesn’t make their promotion look good.
Honestly it is a little disgusting.
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Old 11-17-2021, 02:29 AM   #6714
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Always been weird to me that fans care so much about ratings. If you enjoy the show, watch it. If not, don't. I enjoy WWE and AEW and have never thought about how many other people did or didn't watch on a particular day.
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Old 11-17-2021, 02:30 AM   #6715
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NOT A FLAME. JUST AN OBSERVATION
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Old 11-17-2021, 03:13 AM   #6716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting Fan View Post
"But fuck AEW and all it stands for, how can anyone possibly like this. I dont like it therefore no one can like it and im going to write a war and peace reply to anything and everything AEW etc. etc. etc... "

- Also Noid -
The irony is that I am the one that people try to censor with this sort of crap. People are allowed to like AEW. That’s fine. I’m allowed to explain why it is a flaming pile of crap. That’s called criticism. A lot of people here can’t hear it, and I think they should really search themselves as to why.
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Old 11-17-2021, 03:17 AM   #6717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screech View Post
Always been weird to me that fans care so much about ratings. If you enjoy the show, watch it. If not, don't. I enjoy WWE and AEW and have never thought about how many other people did or didn't watch on a particular day.
Some people are interested in whether or something is working, and it’s success in the marketplace is a major metric for demonstrating that.

My issue with the ratings is that so many people don’t understand them and take Meltzer’s narratives around them as gospel. Wrestling fans don’t understand how the key demo isn’t all and that comparing WWE’s ratings with AEW’s isn’t 1:1 when it comes this TV rights fees business.

I think they are criminally misrepresented by people looking to sell newsletters and do some sort of hypnosis. But there’s nothing inherently wrong with being interested in the business side of things. Especially when the content put out is so boring.
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Old 11-17-2021, 04:31 AM   #6718
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And when people are saying things like “This is the cool wrestling, watch it grow,” the ratings make an annoying point against that narrative. That’s what they’re trying to shut down.
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Old 11-17-2021, 05:36 AM   #6719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
The irony is that I am the one that people try to censor with this sort of crap. People are allowed to like AEW. That’s fine. I’m allowed to explain why it is a flaming pile of crap. That’s called criticism. A lot of people here can’t hear it, and I think they should really search themselves as to why.
Couldn’t even help yourself for one reply… the gimmick is strong or your a fucking goober. Not sure which but funny either way.
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Old 11-17-2021, 05:49 AM   #6720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting Fan View Post
Couldn’t even help yourself for one reply… the gimmick is strong or your a fucking goober. Not sure which but funny either way.
And you’ve got nothing. Great chat, Sting Fan.
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