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Old 06-18-2018, 05:28 PM   #1
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NXT: From Secret to Sensation to ???

So this DVD came out less than a year ago, let's see what happened to the top 25.

25. Alexander Rusev -- An incredibly over wrestler WWE refuses to push
24. Big E Langston (Big E) -- Part of very successful comedy trio
23. Corey Graves -- Decent announcer, kind of a crybaby in real life
22. Bo Dallas -- Half a decade of being a jobber, now comedy jobber
21. Ember Moon -- Main roster for 2 months and has no direction
20. Antonio Cesaro (Cesaro) -- Barely considered NXT. Good tag team run
19. Tye Dillinger -- A jobber with a hand signal and chant
18. Tyler Breeze -- Part of a jobber comedy tag team
17. Baron Corbin -- Is he even a wrestler anymore, or just a constable?
16. Becky Lynch -- Losses after losses
15. Bray Wyatt -- Jobber for all the top guys, a caricature of himself
14. Adrian Neville (Neville) -- WWE couldn't see past his size, quit
13. Samoa Joe -- Really believable heel monster, WWE missing big opportunity
12. Paige -- Got drugged up, injured, and retired
11. Alexa Bliss -- Hugely successful, but this is a lie, she was nothing in NXT
10. Charlotte Flair -- WWEs golden girl, beats everybody else
9. Bobby Roode -- Cool entrance song turned him boring Babyface midcarder
8. Bayley -- Most over female, turned into whiney vindictive jobber
7. Kevin Owens -- Consistent top performer, under utilized sometimes
6. Sasha Banks -- Consistently near title, just as whiney as Bayley
5. Sami Zayn -- Wasted for years, finally given something entertaining to do
4. Shinsuke Nakamura -- King of Strong Style to evil foreign jobber
3. Seth Rollins - Like Cesaro, barely NXT. A top star
2. Asuka -- Unfeared, unintelligent, beatable sudden jobber
1. Finn Balor -- Wins just enough to not be a jobber, but not by much


Like Alexa, some of the other stars getting a good run despite being nothing in NXT include Carmella, Braun Strowman, Elias, Xavier Woods, Big Cass, and Sonya Mandy Rose and Riott Squad.

This, OUCH. Vince really building for the future...
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:38 PM   #2
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How is Seth Rollins "barely" NXT? He was their first champion.
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:40 PM   #3
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I actually think that it's pretty cool that they were able to incorporate all of that talent into the main programming. My fear was always that if the endgame of a performer was to be called up to the main roster, then realistically, everyone in NXT would either be fired or called up, and there's only so many slots for them. That list above is actually full of people who have done pretty well for themselves, I think.
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:46 PM   #4
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How is Seth Rollins "barely" NXT? He was their first champion.
Because NXT wasn't really NXT until the Network came out and gave it a platform.

Yes Seth is the first NXT champion, but really Neville is the first NXT Champion, he won the first title match on the Network. Yes you can go back and watch it all now, but at the time when Seth, and Big E and Bo as well, they basically had their runs as champion at house shows and in a regional market.

In terms of buzz and building the NXT brand, Seth, Roman, Bo, Cesaro, they really were more pre NXT vs part of the brand as it is today.
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:48 PM   #5
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Just because you couldn't see it doesn't mean it wasn't happening. You could watch it online. In a comprehensive list about NXT, it would be silly to not include Seth Rollins. Neville was not the first NXT champion. That's just false.
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:48 PM   #6
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From SECRET to sensation, you see. Seth was part of the secret.
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
I actually think that it's pretty cool that they were able to incorporate all of that talent into the main programming. My fear was always that if the endgame of a performer was to be called up to the main roster, then realistically, everyone in NXT would either be fired or called up, and there's only so many slots for them. That list above is actually full of people who have done pretty well for themselves, I think.
My problem is why are they bringing them up just to be there. If they are great in NXT, the only way they aren't great in WWE is because WWE books them not to be.

Somebody like Tye Dillinger didn't suddenly lose skill and passion, WWE saw one thing, his chant, and called him up just to do that. Not build him in any real storylines, he just loses. Even in NXT, when he lost it meant something, he was upset, he wanted another chance.

Now his character, win or lose, is just about how he likes the number 10. Nothing else matters.

Just leave that guy in NXT. He could be feuding with EC3 or Dream right now.

If the show the call up is on has zero effect where you don't even notice if they are there or not, that is WWE failing.
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Old 06-18-2018, 09:32 PM   #8
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All that is fine. But Seth Rollins was in NXT.
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Old 06-18-2018, 09:33 PM   #9
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He was the first NXT Champion.
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Old 06-18-2018, 10:04 PM   #10
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My complaint about some of those names is that they learnt their craft outside of NXT. They got to craft entrances and learn how to work in front of cameras and other glossy things, but it was more a "finishing school."
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
Just because you couldn't see it doesn't mean it wasn't happening. You could watch it online. In a comprehensive list about NXT, it would be silly to not include Seth Rollins. Neville was not the first NXT champion. That's just false.
I know Seth was in NXT, and I know he was in the first NXT Champ. My point is that it was NXT before it was a 3rd brand. He was long gone before they had takeover specials.

Neville won the first title match aired to a nationwide audience. Yes technically Bo walked in champ, and yes Neville is technically the 4th NXT Champion, but the brand grew its rep starting when it became widely available, and Neville was the guy at the start of that time period.

I have watched every episode of NXT, but Rollins is certainly not the 3rd biggest star in NXT. I am not talking about what he became, but what he was in NXT.

If he was the 3rd biggest NXT star, he wouldn't have been unknown when he debuted in the WWE with the Shield. Him and Roman both came in with a totally new gimmick (Ambrose wasn't on NXT TV until after the Shield debuted in WWE), and 99% of the audience was none the wiser.

Seth was already in WWE for 15+ months when the Network launched.

Seth is included due to the legacy and what not, but again, barely responsible for what NXT became.
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:40 PM   #12
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And that wasn't the point of the thread anyways, it is how WWE has over and over again just blown so many call ups.
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:50 PM   #13
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It's the WWE as an environment. And NXT allows for process whereas the main roster is just product.
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:58 PM   #14
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I get what noid is saying about rollins. When he and danielson were on it it was a weird game show that they were called up to be on. It wasnt developmental. Spiritually its not the same. Its only the same through this kayfabe lineage.
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Old 06-19-2018, 12:24 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
I actually think that it's pretty cool that they were able to incorporate all of that talent into the main programming. My fear was always that if the endgame of a performer was to be called up to the main roster, then realistically, everyone in NXT would either be fired or called up, and there's only so many slots for them. That list above is actually full of people who have done pretty well for themselves, I think.
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My problem is why are they bringing them up just to be there. If they are great in NXT, the only way they aren't great in WWE is because WWE books them not to be.

Somebody like Tye Dillinger didn't suddenly lose skill and passion, WWE saw one thing, his chant, and called him up just to do that. Not build him in any real storylines, he just loses. Even in NXT, when he lost it meant something, he was upset, he wanted another chance.

Now his character, win or lose, is just about how he likes the number 10. Nothing else matters.

Just leave that guy in NXT. He could be feuding with EC3 or Dream right now.

If the show the call up is on has zero effect where you don't even notice if they are there or not, that is WWE failing.
The bolded points are the tragedy of NXT. They're supposed to be being "groomed" for something bigger on the main roster, but the main roster is just a trap with a bigger paycheck. 9 out of 10 times, the talent is being booked and presented better on NXT. The other time, it's a Baron Corbin.

Jumping past the list for a moment, let's take a look at Gargano and Ciampa. They both had buzz before WWE, that's a plus, but they needed "trained in the WWE style". In the last, what, two years, they became one of the most over tag teams in NXT history, and then one of the most heated feuds. It's booked like old school actual wrestling and it works.

Now take that microcosm and push those two in the same situation on the main roster. That entire, slow building tag team to bitter enemies would have:

a) started way too soon while the team was in the swing of their popularity because Vince hates tag teams,

b) they would have blown their wads with them way too soon by having them touch on TV every goddamn week, going through 18 gimmick matches in the span of two PPV cycles, and

c) after oversaturating them in this angle, let them both fuck off to oblivion because a whole room full of creative writers can't think of anything else for them to do. Unless it's feed one of them to Roman, I guess.

I guess I don't understand the fool's errand of building the act up for a couple of years just to job them out to uselessness in a few short months. What is the point? Asuka went from monster heel that got the Goldberg pop for going out and killing bitches to scrappy, fight from underneath and eek out a win babyface. That's not what built her... that's more what Bayley was doing, but they had Bayley just constantly lose.

Rusev was the classic heel nobody wanted to see - TOO MUCH of a throwback that was one dimensional and boring. Now that he's grown past that, the company that was bound and determined to make him captain badass before he was ready now wants to sweep him under the rug because he didn't get over how and when THEY wanted him to. He's like a way meatier, pre "Yes movement" D.Bry at this point.

Just about everyone on the list with the exception of Corbin, Bliss, and Graves were victims of mishandling. Unfortunately, Baron sucked nearly the entire time, Alexa was actually trash until she came into her own as Blake & Murphy's valet (and even then, her ringwork has been pretty suspect until fairly recently), and Corey Graves could have been the next big thing as the taller, homegrown CM Punk they seemed to be aiming for or ended up being worse than Baron Corbin multiplied by Roman's NXT promo. We'll never know because of the time and place and the word "concussions" altering his career trajectory. Chances are, though, he'd have done okay for himself in NXT, fast tracked to the championship, and then evaporates in about three weeks after his call up to "the big leauges" because feeding him to Cena or Orton constantly would have seemed like the right thing for them to do.
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Old 06-19-2018, 12:28 AM   #16
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Looking at the actual list:

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25. Alexander Rusev -- An incredibly over wrestler WWE refuses to push
24. Big E Langston (Big E) -- Part of very successful comedy trio
23. Corey Graves -- Decent announcer, kind of a crybaby in real life
22. Bo Dallas -- Half a decade of being a jobber, now comedy jobber
21. Ember Moon -- Main roster for 2 months and has no direction
20. Antonio Cesaro (Cesaro) -- Barely considered NXT. Good tag team run
19. Tye Dillinger -- A jobber with a hand signal and chant
18. Tyler Breeze -- Part of a jobber comedy tag team
17. Baron Corbin -- Is he even a wrestler anymore, or just a constable?
16. Becky Lynch -- Losses after losses
15. Bray Wyatt -- Jobber for all the top guys, a caricature of himself
14. Adrian Neville (Neville) -- WWE couldn't see past his size, quit
13. Samoa Joe -- Really believable heel monster, WWE missing big opportunity
12. Paige -- Got drugged up, injured, and retired
11. Alexa Bliss -- Hugely successful, but this is a lie, she was nothing in NXT
10. Charlotte Flair -- WWEs golden girl, beats everybody else
9. Bobby Roode -- Cool entrance song turned him boring Babyface midcarder
8. Bayley -- Most over female, turned into whiney vindictive jobber
7. Kevin Owens -- Consistent top performer, under utilized sometimes
6. Sasha Banks -- Consistently near title, just as whiney as Bayley
5. Sami Zayn -- Wasted for years, finally given something entertaining to do
4. Shinsuke Nakamura -- King of Strong Style to evil foreign jobber
3. Seth Rollins - Like Cesaro, barely NXT. A top star
2. Asuka -- Unfeared, unintelligent, beatable sudden jobber
1. Finn Balor -- Wins just enough to not be a jobber, but not by much
25. Rusev is in that awkward position of being over in a way that he is not supposed to be over. I made a prediction that he and Lana may leave WWE before the end of the year. I am sticking to that, but it seems they might be happy just getting the limited shine they do get with the wink and the nod to Rusev Day.

24. When they called him up, he kept using the "I Need Five" music, but they never explained what it was. He seems to have all the tools, but they seem to want to lean on The New Day as its getting more and more grating. And as Corny said about them "If they don't care, why should I?"

23. Corey Graves has to be considered another success by WWE standards. He's Vince's color guy. I personally feel he's overrated, but he's got a tough job. Being a WWE announcer is like no other job in the world.

22. It was weird when they tried to make Bo "the guy" in NXT. He does some things really well, and other things are just uninteresting. I don't feel he is appreciably less talented than Bray, but he's just never found his gimmick. If he's happy being the goofy tag partner to Curtis Axel, more power to him. They'll probably even get a run with the Raw Tag Titles, because it's their turn to do something.

21. She got called up because those are the motions they go through. It was her time regardless of whether or not they have anything for her. She's fine, but I think her finisher is a bit much and the presentation feels like a lot of work for someone that doesn't feel like they've found what makes them special yet.

20. Man, did he blend in with the furniture fast? I was really optimistic for Cesaro for a while there, but he feels like just another guy now. I like Sheamus and Cesaro as a team, but when you've won and lost four Tag Titles in less than two years spent as a team, it's hard to really offer up any emotional energy. I have no clue what they are even doing on SmackDown. I want to see Cesaro work television matches with AJ Styles and Daniel Bryan.

19. Tye was called up because everybody has a turn. There was no plan for him. He's got a good rep and he's banging Peyton. I'd like to see him in a heel team with Bobby Roode for some reason. Something about two Canadians thinking they are perfection seems fitting.

18. I like Tyler Breeze as a talent, but I had a feeling this would go sour pretty soon. He had the right gimmick but is the wrong size. He seems to be happy just having a job. I can see him and Fandango getting a token run with the tag belts and Breeze getting the Cruiserweight Title. There is a universe out there somewhere where Breeze and Fandango matter as a tag team.

17. Baron Corbin sucks. He's better with the bald head. By WWE standards he's a success. I'm glad they are changing his gimmick up. We'll see where that goes. Maybe he magically becomes awesome? Held down by a forced gimmick and with the foundation to get better, maybe time will be good to him?

16. Becky was called up to be a player/coach. I am as annoyed by her being over and not getting focus as much as anybody, but that's her role.

15. Bray Wyatt. Lol. Talented guy. Was always going to crash into the ground like it has at some point. He's still got a job and will randomly win belts and get pushed to the top when they need someone. He's one of their "made guys" and that is what being made is these days.

14. Neville is a weird one. Thought he was happy, but then had his break. It's a shame because he was really fucking good. Would be fine with him going back to NXT and being a focal point of it as full-fledged brand.

13. Samoa Joe is a great promo and great worker. But he's in there with geeks a lot of the time, therefore he looks like one. There's a universe where Samoa Joe is a top star that matters.

12. The illusion with Paige was broken the moment she got on Total Divas and we could see what a brat she is. Her series with AJ Lee was underwhelming. I had big ideas for Paige, but they were smoke and mirrors and head canon. There's a universe where someone knows how to make money with Paige.

11. Alexa Bliss is a star by WWE standards. It doesn't matter how static and uninteresting the product is. She's a five-time World Champion by their standards.

10. Charlotte Flair is also a star by WWE standards. It doesn't matter how static or uninteresting the product is. She's a five-time World Champion by their standards.

9. I like Bobby Roode. He's great at what he does. What he does is always going to get called "boring" by modern fans though. It made sense to push him as a babyface because the entrance is over. Take it away from him and push him as a heel alongside Tye Dillinger in a tag team in a universe where tag teams aren't jokes.

8. Hahaha, Bayley was going to be the next female Cena, right? Maybe she could have been with the right push, but she doesn't really have the mic or ring skills to sustain anything other than the most protected and fine-tuned push. A problem a lot of the women have to face on the main roster is that they have to be good workers and they have to get over without the safety net of good booking.

7. Kevin Owens is there to be a guy who can talk a good game and then go through furniture. Given the bumps they let him take, I don't think they really care what he does. They will never build around him -- he's just a guy there to talk and put others over. Does it well enough.

6. See: Bayley, except subtract the Cena comments. Sasha is really good at certain things, and she got her time in the sun. But now it's time to get the people with cousins that really matter to WWE in the sun. She seems happy to kill herself trying to get noticed and they seem happy to let her. She'll either leave when she gets fed up or stay around forever until her career is over. She's like a female Kevin Owens except not used in the same position.

5. He's getting to show personality as a heel. It's annoying and his ring style is not very believable as a heel. Looks like an average guy beating up super-men. He seems to be in lower standing than Owens, possibly just because Vince didn't get the babyface appeal, but he'll also probably be around for as long as he wants provided he is happy being a goof and losing to top guys. This is what making it in the WWE means these days.

4. Shinsuke Nakamura is fantastic. He's done everything Vince has asked of him. Except maybe carry Jinder to a good match, but AJ Styles had trouble with that too. It didn't hurt his standing though. He'll be around for as long as he wants to get paid to pull amusing faces and be so much better than everyone around him. This is what making it in the WWE means these days.

3. Seth Rollins is a star by WWE standards. He's going to be pushed into random main events and be given random belts until his career is over. Then he will go into the Hall of Fame and everyone will talk about how many great matches Seth Rollins had and then wonder why they don't really give a fuck and why they don't consider him a legend in the same vein as the top stars n wrestling's history.

2. Asuka is getting featured. You don't get to have protected pushes in WWE. You have to get over being a normal person like everyone else. Braun Strowman didn't win a PPV match in this brand split era until...fuck, I'm not even sure. It was after WrestleMania and the brand split was in place by SummerSlam. She's this weirdly hot Japanese chick that can do what they ask of her really well and make shit women look half-way like they know what they're doing. I bet Vince loves her.

1. It'll be interesting to see what Finn Balor does when his next contract comes up. Does he leave to go back to New Japan in order to prove that he really can be "a guy," or does he sign for another 5 years in order to grin, occasionally paint himself and win the occasional belt. Personally, I find Balor boring. I don't really like his ring work much either. He doesn't seem to "fit." I don't care. They will probably keep him around for as long as he wants to be there though. He's garnish. They gave him a shot at being steak, but he got hurt and hasn't shown anything more magic than half the roster that could be inserted into steak roles on rotation. He might get another turn. Does it matter? They can call him "Former Universal Champion and Undefeated Demon King Finn Balor Club is 4 Every1 4Eva 4Ova" forever.
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Old 06-19-2018, 12:29 AM   #17
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I will get mad about it when they make Velveteen Dream just another guy. Right now very few people have the charisma or apparent attitude to care about their gentrification.
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Old 06-19-2018, 02:41 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post

I guess I don't understand the fool's errand of building the act up for a couple of years just to job them out to uselessness in a few short months. What is the point?
I could not agree with this statement more. Everybody involved works so hard to get these characters ready to make an impact on the main roster, then Vince buries them.
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Old 06-19-2018, 05:45 AM   #19
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But they should know that by now. This has been going on since 2014. Only Neville has walked away, to my knowledge. The talent are either very happy with the Vince McMahon philosophy of what sports entertainment should be, or they are miserable with what they perceive as a broken promise and they stick around.
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