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Old 01-22-2018, 07:46 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Idiots, liars and the mentally fried can be raped too. Just keep that in mind when you go after a woman's credibility based on poorly written social media posts personal life choices.
Some personal life choices an social media posts DO damage her credibility though. She could have been raped. When you make the claim though, it doesn't automatically mean "now prove me wrong". And when you change your story/say things like "I was drugged" because you decided to take drugs you instantly dig a hole for yourself. Just say what actually fucking happened and don't embellish, lie and add "woe is me" shit that just isn't true. If she got raped, the truth should be enough on it's own.
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:48 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volare View Post
Kind of ironic there was a lengthy thread of who'd be first, and this happens.
It was bound to happen at some point. I'm surprised that no one else has been more heavily accused and that multiple cases haven't been mounted against a particular wrestling personality. I'm also surprised that Vince's alleged indiscretions in tanning salons and limousines haven't been brought back out into public.

But anyway, I'm out of this thread. I'll let justice take it course. People turn really gross when women say "he hurt me." Don't find the need to deal with it, to be honest.
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:49 PM   #43
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fuck enzo

i'm just pissed about the character assassination of Aziz Ansari.
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:49 PM   #44
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Does Lena Dunham have any inside info on this one? We need to hear what she thinks.
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:49 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRA View Post
I dunno about the other stuff but Enzo seems like the type to go around loudly proclaiming he has money and listing that as the reason some random lady needs to blow him.
Not even money. Instagram followers. lol
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:49 PM   #46
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bunch of racist metoo fools
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:50 PM   #47
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It doesn't make me uncomfortable at all. People are awful. Many of them being capable of rape...just like many of them are capable of lying about being raped.

I legit have no horse in this race. Don't care about Enzo, he's just some guy on T.V. But due process is a thing that exists, and rampantly posting about getting raped on Twitter is just fucked up. As she is (allegedly) the victim, I get she's likely erratic, and not thinking clearly but jesus fucking christ.

I strongly believe in due process. It's greatly flawed, but the court of public opinion is the worse of the two. @Noid
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:51 PM   #48
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Damn, I'd say Triple H raped me, there's more money in that.
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:57 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Some personal life choices an social media posts DO damage her credibility though. She could have been raped. When you make the claim though, it doesn't automatically mean "now prove me wrong". And when you change your story/say things like "I was drugged" because you decided to take drugs you instantly dig a hole for yourself. Just say what actually fucking happened and don't embellish, lie and add "woe is me" shit that just isn't true. If she got raped, the truth should be enough on it's own.
Personal life choices and social media posts make her a ripe candidate for a dude who is going to think of her as trash too. Believe it or not, you can tell a lie for every day of your life and then still get forced to have sex against your will. I don't think anyone is saying "now prove me wrong," people have just taken it upon themselves to do that based on her public profile. What the police investigation will do is look at the DNA and other evidence, examine the stories of the alleged accomplices and see what falls out.

I'm not saying Enzo did it. I'm saying that it's statistically unlikely that she's lying (all things being equal), and her being a drug addict doesn't have anything to do with that. The truth should be enough on its own, but you have legal systems and people on the internet who want to tear it all apart because women be lying whores.

Wait and see how this shakes out. Enzo will probably get away with it, because he'll just say "Nah, she was into it," and it's her word from that moment against his, and there's not enough evidence there to convict. But if it comes out as valid, just maybe keep it in mind the next time a woman who seems like she might be a piece of shit to you says someone treated me like one. I'm not saying be gullible or naive, but you can treat these things with gravity.
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:59 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
1/10 people lying about being raped is pretty awful.
Number itself is dwarfed by the sheer amount that doesn't get reported at all. Even the 9 out of 10 being real incidents is dwarfed by how much doesn't get reported or investigated enough by police.

RAINN had a stat that out of 1000 rape incidents, 30% actually get reported as a best case and like 11 cases will actually manage to reach the courts.

https://www.rainn.org/sites/default/...s%20122016.png
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:08 PM   #51
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I'm not saying her being a drug addict makes her less credible. I'm saying her taking a bunch of drugs because that's what she does and then when it's convenient to villainize someone saying "OMG I WAS DRUGGED" does. If she actually got raped, doing clear things that point to "lying drama queen" is insanely stupid and obviously makes her less credible. If she had just said she did a lot of drugs before it happened, alright. That sucks but she wouldn't suddenly be at fault for being raped because she chose to do too many drugs. The fact that she simply does drugs is irrelevant. The only reason I posted that "cocaine in my eye" tweet earlier was to make fun of her "I was drugged" claim.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:08 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
It doesn't make me uncomfortable at all. People are awful. Many of them being capable of rape...just like many of them are capable of lying about being raped.

I legit have no horse in this race. Don't care about Enzo, he's just some guy on T.V. But due process is a thing that exists, and rampantly posting about getting raped on Twitter is just fucked up. As she is (allegedly) the victim, I get she's likely erratic, and not thinking clearly but jesus fucking christ.

I strongly believe in due process. It's greatly flawed, but the court of public opinion is the worse of the two. @Noid
More are capable of rape than lying about rape. People don't really wrap their heads around that, like complex maths problems. If you rank rape as being worse than telling a lie about it, then just think about how awful the world is when the worse thing happens more. And these are only the ones that are reported. It's a bit of a mind-fuck, really.

Yeah, due process exists, and I don't think anyone is saying skip that? It always goes there when people take someone's (likely) claim that something is true and then states "That's fucked up and if it's true they should face consequences." Like, why respond to that with "but due process is a thing?" Yeah, that's what people are calling for. It's just a shame that it hasn't really caught up to the crimes in many fields (not just sexual assault).

I don't think I'm in a position to judge someone on how they respond to that sort of thing. People go back to their attackers willingly in attempts to gain "control" back. People abuse other people. They turn to drugs, prostitution, god or kill themselves. It's not as simple as picking out a pathway of how someone is supposed to react to that and then saying one that is more self-destructive or seemingly damaging is definitively an inappropriate reaction to something inappropriate and sometimes not always quantifiable. I think it is a dumb thing to do, but she is as much the subject of the court of public opinion now. And the thing is, the real court is still the one that holds weight.

If Enzo did not do this, it is far more likely it will come out that she is making it up than it is she is making it up. Let's just see how due process goes before we start appealing to due process.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:10 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat View Post
Number itself is dwarfed by the sheer amount that doesn't get reported at all. Even the 9 out of 10 being real incidents is dwarfed by how much doesn't get reported or investigated enough by police.

RAINN had a stat that out of 1000 rape incidents, 30% actually get reported as a best case and like 11 cases will actually manage to reach the courts.

https://www.rainn.org/sites/default/...s%20122016.png
There is no doubt the system is broken. Relying on the court of public opinion is no way to fix it.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:15 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
I'm not saying her being a drug addict makes her less credible. I'm saying her taking a bunch of drugs because that's what she does and then when it's convenient to villainize someone saying "OMG I WAS DRUGGED" does. If she actually got raped, doing clear things that point to "lying drama queen" is insanely stupid and obviously makes her less credible. The fact that she simply does drugs is irrelevant. The only reason I posted that "cocaine in my eye" tweet earlier was to make fun of her "I was drugged" claim.
I just want to state I am not attacking you. I get what you mean, and I used to think like this once upon a time. I can't explain it, but it's just like a different language to me now. I think I'll just say that you saying acting like a "lying drama queen" is subjective. Like, of course she looks like that to you, but that doesn't mean that's her intention or how she thinks she looks. I don't think you mean to say that, but what you're requiring from her is a fashioned persona of respectability and integrity before she says "I was in a situation where I took substances; I thought I was safe -- I was not."

I understand the impulse to look at people's stories and rip apart inconsistencies. And in a dark way, the mess this world can be is hilarious, so I'm not even mocking sardonic tones and such. I just think the WWE and Phoenix police are taking the right approach by taking it seriously.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:19 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Even worse is over 9/10 telling the truth and every single one of them being accused of being that 1 because it makes boys feel uncomfortable to admit that this shit happens to people a lot, and that the "Hmm, well, how about this..." actually makes it harder for women, and men for that matter, to come forward about this shit, making the waters even murkier.
Words arent proof, and i dont want to live in a world where proving yourself innocent is the norm. The accused gets the benifit not the accuser.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:21 PM   #56
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We are literally taking tweets as fact. Think about that
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:24 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
There is no doubt the system is broken. Relying on the court of public opinion is no way to fix it.
I don't think that's a fair assessment of what the trade-off is, though. I don't think anyone is saying throw out the broken system and let's just burn the accused witches. The idea that people believe women is still a relatively fresh concept in the public arena, and you certainly see on the internet how people are still very quick to try and drill holes where they can, like stories are supposed to be perfect.

I think we agree that the system sucks, and that relying on people, who are largely stupid, is no fix. And I've taken the bait and started talking about public opinion instead of the point, which is that these things just aren't made up that often, and the only unreported accounts are true accounts (because a false account never happened, therefore it's not unreported). More so than the court of public opinion, we're entering a period where now when a woman comes forward, authorities are going to be more likely to believe them, because they know these stats.

And while I'm not a big fan on the court of public opinion, I am a big fan of using your money to hurt these guys with power who throw it around. Not relevant to Enzo, but I love it that businesses feel like they have to take these things seriously otherwise it will affect their bottom-dollar.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:24 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
More are capable of rape than lying about rape. People don't really wrap their heads around that, like complex maths problems. If you rank rape as being worse than telling a lie about it, then just think about how awful the world is when the worse thing happens more. And these are only the ones that are reported. It's a bit of a mind-fuck, really.
What is there to wrap my head around? I understand what you're saying. I take these allegations very seriously. I simply have a different perspective and don't take what the HuffPost tells me to believe to heart. I also don't stand on a moral high ground when discussing these issues. Realistically Noid, I can have whatever fucking opinion I want about these issues, as long as I'm not actually raping people.

But the main thing is, because these turn into he-said-she-said muck raking situations, the court of public opinion takes over and deems people guilty, when really we'll never know. Which is why SOME people are very resistant to the guilty until proven innocent pitchfork mentality plaguing enough of the population

It's a difficult subject to discuss. A family member was molested by her doctor as a 12-year-old. She didn't come forward sadly, but she also was a poor Jewish girl in South Africa during Apartheid, so she wasn't exactly empowered.

As I said, I'm happy this girl reported it to the police. But sensationalizing something this serious via Twitter is at the very least a damning indictment on society.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:25 PM   #59
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:25 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
We are literally taking tweets as fact. Think about that
That's not true.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:25 PM   #61
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WWE is definitely taking the right approach though. I agree there. From a PR standpoint, you just can't have him on TV while this is going on like nothing happened. If it turns out to be false then it sucks that it cost Enzo a little but the pros outweigh the cons.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:28 PM   #62
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Agree w/fan.

The other problem too, is if Enzo is guilty, I can't see these twitter tactics helping her in the courtroom... which would actually suck. I could be wrong.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:29 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
That's not true.
But it is true. You may be a reasonable person Noidster, but you aren't part of the frothing mob.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:32 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
Words arent proof, and i dont want to live in a world where proving yourself innocent is the norm. The accused gets the benifit not the accuser.
No, the proof will be the proof. Enzo has been suspended pending investigation; not criminally prosecuted. If there is sufficient evidence to charge him, he will be put on trial in a court of law, where he will need to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. He'll probably get away even if he did do it.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:33 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
Agree w/fan.

The other problem too, is if Enzo is guilty, I can't see these twitter tactics helping her in the courtroom... which would actually suck. I could be wrong.
A woman's past sexual history, at least until very recently (not sure if this has changed), could be used against her in a courtroom. Apparently having sex with A and B and C means you'd automatically have sex with D and E and F, no matter how gross they are.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:34 PM   #66
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So what you're saying Noid... is if Neville "gets off", you will likely think he is a rapist?

I'm kind of putting words in your mouth, but that's what I can infer from you saying "He'll probably get away with it if he did do it".
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:35 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
WWE is definitely taking the right approach though. I agree there. From a PR standpoint, you just can't have him on TV while this is going on like nothing happened. If it turns out to be false then it sucks that it cost Enzo a little but the pros outweigh the cons.
Agree with this.

I mean, they fired Emma for shoplifting. Well, let's pretend it was because of that and not because they didn't care for her.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:36 PM   #68
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Ummm, what was she expecting doing drugs and going to the hotel room with him? I'm not saying that if he did it it's ok, but seriously what was she expecting other than sex?
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:38 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
So what you're saying Noid... is if Neville "gets off", you will likely think he is a rapist?

I'm kind of putting words in your mouth, but that's what I can infer from you saying "He'll probably get away with it if he did do it".
Hahaha, no. And I think you do know this, hence why you said the point about putting words in my mouth, but I wouldn't be effectively busting your chops if I didn't point out that was ridiculous.

What I'm saying is that if Enzo did do it, it's probably going to come down to his word against hers (just from what is out about the story), with him saying his DNA being deposited was consensual. It'll probably turn into he said/she said, which is not going to work in her favor.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:38 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixx View Post
Ummm, what was she expecting doing drugs and going to the hotel room with him? I'm not saying that if he did it it's ok, but seriously what was she expecting other than sex?
To get high, most likely.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:41 PM   #71
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This is the problem with rape cases. V hard to find the truth.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:42 PM   #72
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Quote:
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Hm, then again, if she was lying, why would she choose Enzo? That's pretty lame.
I mean if she did meet up with him that's why.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:48 PM   #73
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This whole drugs thing is throwing me off....I mean besides drug tests and all that, unless they were "fed" to her....know what I'm getting at?
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:50 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
This is the problem with rape cases. V hard to find the truth.
That's true. That's why I think the best course of action is to take them seriously, even with a reputable accused and "less than reputable" accuser and let authorities investigate and find out if there is any truth to it. Work out if they were in the same place, if there are any witnesses, if there is any corroborating evidence and go from there. That seems to be the route it is going.

I don't think her going onto social media has been helpful to her or anyone. Especially at this stage.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:59 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
That's true. That's why I think the best course of action is to take them seriously, even with a reputable accused and "less than reputable" accuser and let authorities investigate and find out if there is any truth to it. Work out if they were in the same place, if there are any witnesses, if there is any corroborating evidence and go from there. That seems to be the route it is going.

I don't think her going onto social media has been helpful to her or anyone. Especially at this stage.
Agree 100% with everthing. We just have different ways of getting there lol and different world views.
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:00 PM   #76
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Yeah, basically. I can see the other sides, as I'm sure you can mine. Either way, I'm not complain about Enzo being off television. Let's hope this is the end of the cruiserweights too, haha.
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:42 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixx View Post
Ummm, what was she expecting doing drugs and going to the hotel room with him? I'm not saying that if he did it it's ok, but seriously what was she expecting other than sex?
Wondering if it's one of those "I feel dirty" afterwards kind of things.

Consensual until sober.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:35 AM   #78
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Quote:
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A woman's past sexual history, at least until very recently (not sure if this has changed), could be used against her in a courtroom. Apparently having sex with A and B and C means you'd automatically have sex with D and E and F, no matter how gross they are.
Sort of. While it is true that anyone's past sexual history can be admissible, the Rule of Evidence that allows it, (Rule 412), is by default a rule of exclusion. The procedure required for getting this kind of evidence in at trial is also very specific and thorough.

Basically, the jury only gets to learn the evidence of the victim's previous sex acts with A, B and C if:

1. you can show that it's reasonably possible that the victim's previous sex acts with A, B and C were the actual cause of the victim's injuries, scientific evidence (i.e., semen found, etc.), disease, or knowledge of sexual matters in the present case,

2. you can show that the victim's previous sex acts with A, B, and C are of such a pattern (multiple persons/events, or more than one time) of sexual behavior so unique AND so closely resembling the defendant’s version of the alleged encounter with the victim that it tends to prove that the victim consented to the act charged or behaved in such a manner as to lead the defendant reasonably to believe that the victim consented, (I.e., the victim's past consistent AND unique sexual behavior with A and B and C matches D's claim that the victim consented in the present case), or

3. you're using the victim's past history with A, B, & C, to rebut statements made by the victim re: their own sexual history, BUT ONLY if the victim's sexual history was brought up first by the prosecution AND limited only to the extent necessary to rebut (I.e., Prosecutor Q: "Have you ever had sex before?" Victim A: "I've never had sex before." Now the defendant can rebut that statement by showing only the minimal amount of evidence necessary of A,B, & C's past sex with the victim).
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:45 AM   #79
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That makes perfect sense.
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:48 PM   #80
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Looks like the evidence must be strong. Enzo Amore has been fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrred
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