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Old 12-05-2021, 10:12 PM   #81
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Johnny NotaTakeover doing big things already
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Old 12-05-2021, 10:18 PM   #82
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Old 12-05-2021, 10:23 PM   #83
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You ignorant sluts
You probably right.
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Old 12-05-2021, 10:23 PM   #84
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Waller seems sort of green to be in a main event
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Old 12-05-2021, 10:26 PM   #85
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I like Carmelo, Tony and Bron tho
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Old 12-05-2021, 10:27 PM   #86
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The crowd chanting Black and Gold
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Old 12-05-2021, 10:30 PM   #87
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There goes Lance being serious for a moment again

EXPOSING THE BUSINESS!!!
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Old 12-05-2021, 10:39 PM   #88
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No Air Raid Crash from the top of the cage so far. Thank God.
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Old 12-05-2021, 10:44 PM   #89
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wild table spear
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Old 12-05-2021, 10:49 PM   #90
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Seeya on TNT, Johnny
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Old 12-05-2021, 10:49 PM   #91
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Good main-event
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Old 12-05-2021, 10:50 PM   #92
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Damn, Breakker is insanely impressive... just picking guys up over his head with no effort 30 mins into a match
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Old 12-05-2021, 10:58 PM   #93
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Old 12-06-2021, 12:29 AM   #94
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Wow, pretty much everyone on the net are saying these new guys put on a better ppv than anything AEW did this year. Like a 9.2/10.

R.I.P
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Old 12-06-2021, 12:47 AM   #95
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I'm about to wreck 2 different narratives, here.

1. Maybe this is crazy, but maybe signing guys that are working on personalities is a good thing? Maybe getting larger wrestlers is a good thing?

2. Everyone swears that Goldberg only had 2 moves. Bronn Breaker's finish was one of the other power moves he did.
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Old 12-06-2021, 01:00 AM   #96
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You aren't wrecking anything lol.

The current nxt wrestlers are not larger wrestlers, they are still mostly the same size as they have been for years. Bron Breaker would look tiny next to Goldberg. He's 6 ft tall and 230 lbs. I swear the hoops some people will jump through...
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Old 12-06-2021, 01:03 AM   #97
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Glad Grimes won the hair match. Wasn't really particularly interested in the rest of the show.
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Old 12-06-2021, 02:11 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik View Post
You aren't wrecking anything lol.

The current nxt wrestlers are not larger wrestlers, they are still mostly the same size as they have been for years. Bron Breaker would look tiny next to Goldberg. He's 6 ft tall and 230 lbs. I swear the hoops some people will jump through...
Spider-Man is my favorite example of how dumb wrestling fans are who want everyone to be 7ft tall and 300 lbs. I get when you were a kid everyone was larger than life to you but you have to grow up and move past that.

Everyone loves Spidey and he's a guy who's probably 5'6" and 165 lbs. No one complains about this because they recognize it's fictional entertainment.
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Old 12-06-2021, 02:34 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik View Post
Spider-Man is my favorite example of how dumb wrestling fans are who want everyone to be 7ft tall and 300 lbs. I get when you were a kid everyone was larger than life to you but you have to grow up and move past that.

Everyone loves Spidey and he's a guy who's probably 5'6" and 165 lbs. No one complains about this because they recognize it's fictional entertainment.
2 notes:

1. "Larger than Life" is something that "smart marks" thinks mean Physically large. "Larger than Life" is actually a reference to a huge personality. The Rock's personality is "Larger than Life." Daniel Bryan, peak "Yes Movement," had a "Larger than Life" personality. Use the terms correctly.
2. When I said "Larger," I didn't mean height. Bronn is jacked as fuck. He looks like a bigger man than the indy darlings, similar heights aside. Another example: Vader was 6'5". Lex Luger was 6'6". would you say Luger was larger?
3. Really telling that you went after the size issue, but not the personality or the fact that Goldberg had more than 2 moves. Just saying.
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Old 12-06-2021, 03:02 AM   #100
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You didn't say "Larger than Life"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastardikai View Post
Maybe getting larger wrestlers is a good thing?
As for personalities, who are you claiming doesn't have one?
Also, I don't think Goldberg's moveset is the hill to die on you think it is.
Bron Breaker wouldn't look any more jacked than Chad Gable on the main roster. I like Chad Gable and I also like Bron Breaker. Again, why do you need him to be 'more jacked' to enjoy watching him?
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Old 12-06-2021, 03:22 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik View Post
You aren't wrecking anything lol.

The current nxt wrestlers are not larger wrestlers, they are still mostly the same size as they have been for years. Bron Breaker would look tiny next to Goldberg. He's 6 ft tall and 230 lbs. I swear the hoops some people will jump through...
I don’t agree, he’s a fucking tank and a freak athlete, just typing out his height and weight on paper with no context doesn’t do him justice.
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Old 12-06-2021, 03:26 AM   #102
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Quote:
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I don’t agree, he’s a fucking tank and a freak athlete, just typing out his height and weight on paper with no context doesn’t do him justice.
What are you not agreeing with? I responded to a post comparing his size to Goldberg. He's similar to Chad Gable in size, which I don't have an issue with. I'm not the one hung up on the size of wrestlers. I don't care about that. I'm not in fourth grade.

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Old 12-06-2021, 03:34 AM   #103
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Ruminating on how "weird" it is that Gargano/Ciampa are still around in NXT when like half the guys working around them have since been called to the main roster and released......
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Old 12-06-2021, 04:19 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik View Post
What are you not agreeing with? I responded to a post comparing his size to Goldberg. He's similar to Chad Gable in size, which I don't have an issue with. I'm not the one hung up on the size of wrestlers. I don't care about that. I'm not in fourth grade.

I don’t agree that he would look tiny next to Goldberg. Rick Steiner never looked "tiny" when he wrestled Goldberg because he was formidable and built like a shit brick house. Scott Steiner sure as hell didn’t and Bron is the same height/has that same frame and underlying genetics to pile on a lot of muscle. The fullback on the football team doesn’t look tiny standing next to the defensive tackle, that’s not the way it works.
Last edited by DrA; 12-06-2021 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 12-06-2021, 04:26 AM   #105
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I appreciate your feedback but why does it matter?

Why does he need to be bigger/more jacked in the first place to enjoy him as a wrestler? You are missing my point. Why does Vastardikai need wrestlers to be bigger/more jacked to enjoy watching them or to validate them? It's all fiction, it doesn't matter.

No one looks at Spider-Man fighting Rhino or Venom or Kingpin and says 'vanilla midget, terrible, hate it'
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Old 12-06-2021, 04:34 AM   #106
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If someone looks like a roided up experiment gone awry, great
If someone is lean as fuck, great

Are they a entertaining wrestler, good promo, interesting person or gimmick?
That's all that matters in the end. I don't get the obsession with 'I can only root for people who I think are physically larger than me'. It's weird.
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Old 12-06-2021, 04:36 AM   #107
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Spider-Man is my favorite example of how dumb wrestling fans are who want everyone to be 7ft tall and 300 lbs. I get when you were a kid everyone was larger than life to you but you have to grow up and move past that.

Everyone loves Spidey and he's a guy who's probably 5'6" and 165 lbs. No one complains about this because they recognize it's fictional entertainment.
Spider-Man is larger than life. As Vastardikai said, it has nothing to do with size. Looking like a million dollars can help with it though.

The polish and emphasis a lot of modern wrestlers put into the structure of their matches and making them “good” for the hardcore audience or to make them as smooth as possible actually discourages some fans from connecting with the product, in my opinion. It’s so much easier to go back and watch two guys that are way more clunky but are calling it in the ring than a lot of modern performances.
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Old 12-06-2021, 05:55 AM   #108
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guy is comparing wrestling to comic books while calling everyone children for caring about size. process how out of touch that is for a moment.
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Old 12-06-2021, 06:19 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Slik View Post
I appreciate your feedback but why does it matter?

Why does he need to be bigger/more jacked in the first place to enjoy him as a wrestler? You are missing my point. Why does Vastardikai need wrestlers to be bigger/more jacked to enjoy watching them or to validate them? It's all fiction, it doesn't matter.

No one looks at Spider-Man fighting Rhino or Venom or Kingpin and says 'vanilla midget, terrible, hate it'
The issue with me is a lot of the smaller guys I’ve seen in modern wrestling just aren’t that good. I don’t watch wrestling that closely, but I’ve watched guys like the Young Bucks wrestle a couple of times recently and if I’m being honest I thought they were pretty sloppy matches compared to what the cruiserweights were doing back in WCW in 1990s. I can look the other way at size and physical appearances if you can back it up in the ring, but it feels to me like you have a lot of guys now who not only don’t look the part, they haven’t refined their craft in the ring either, and it makes the product altogether feel half-baked a lot of the time.
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Old 12-06-2021, 06:38 AM   #110
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soy boys. weak people who have no spine. if a fight broke out theyd take off running leaving you to defend yourself. everything about combat is theoretical to them. you could absolutely market a product to them. theres no reason why you couldnt. but it would be niche. like wrestling ever increasingly has become in direct proportion to marketing to them.

it also has some psychological oversights that are dismissed at your own undoing. superheros have reasons that they are capable of doing these larger than life feats. theyre called super powers. they allow the reader to suspend their disbelief and get behind spider-man lifting a car and throwing it at an enemey.

this is of course what we want to see: feats. the super power is the vehicle that brings us to our destination.

wrestling unfortunatly is not a comic book. its flesh and blood. but we still want to see feats. so you need physical living breathing humans to do these feats.

if im watching a physically inferior human specimen to myself perform feats that exceed what i myself am capable of how can i be invested?

this is the disconnect. weak people, soy boys, pacifists, etc they can easily jump on board. watch a tv show where a 100lb girl out boxes a 280lb man because...reasons? no problem. but to anyone whos felt one of the beta males teeth cave under their knuckles they know that what theyre seeing is complete bullshit.

weight classes exist for reason. tom cruise does his scenes standing on a box for a reason. perception is reality. and the perception that a roster of rey mysterios are tough guys will only be reasonable for a group of very weak men. next time you watch a wrestling look to the crowd. take in the type of people theyre attracting. youll notice a common thread. compare that to a boxing or mma event. in the past they were the same crowd. they arent now. that CAN change btw. you can draw them.

try to logic your way around this issue all you like. this will be true no matter what you say. there's a very large sect of males who want to watch manly men do manly things. to inspire them. to motivate them. and manly men doing manly things brings in women too which in turn brings in more men to be around the women.

instead we have guys like cm punk, who is worthless in a fight. guys like seth rollins who get frightened when theyre attacked. these guys are just playing wrestlers.

we used to have actual wrestlers. guys who could walk into a bar at 2 am and clear thar mother fucker out. guys who walked away from plane crashes. guys who slit bruiser brodys throat over a dispute. you bought them because they werent bullshit.

people want to believe. we all have the understanding that its bull shit. like watching magic or like going to a film. but like a film the casting absolutely matters. if you went to a biopic about Arnold Schwarzenegger and the male lead was 5'4 and 140lbs with a beer gut and they played it straight youd walk out.

you can def have smaller guys as a part of your troupe if built properly. Benoit was always believable for example. but this idea that its simply not a factor is completely out of touch with reality and very basic human psychology.

its the difference of stumbling on a raccoon vs a bear. this is about fundamental evolutionary human psychology and a generation thats grown so privileged to live so far removed from anything that resembles real conflict and that theyve lost touch with reality is why this concept could ever arise in the first place.

its not just a bad take. its not just wrong. its an anti-truth. and it wasnt worth typing all this out.
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Old 12-06-2021, 07:52 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
soy boys. weak people who have no spine. if a fight broke out theyd take off running leaving you to defend yourself. everything about combat is theoretical to them. you could absolutely market a product to them. theres no reason why you couldnt. but it would be niche. like wrestling ever increasingly has become in direct proportion to marketing to them.

it also has some psychological oversights that are dismissed at your own undoing. superheros have reasons that they are capable of doing these larger than life feats. theyre called super powers. they allow the reader to suspend their disbelief and get behind spider-man lifting a car and throwing it at an enemey.

this is of course what we want to see: feats. the super power is the vehicle that brings us to our destination.

wrestling unfortunatly is not a comic book. its flesh and blood. but we still want to see feats. so you need physical living breathing humans to do these feats.

if im watching a physically inferior human specimen to myself perform feats that exceed what i myself am capable of how can i be invested?

this is the disconnect. weak people, soy boys, pacifists, etc they can easily jump on board. watch a tv show where a 100lb girl out boxes a 280lb man because...reasons? no problem. but to anyone whos felt one of the beta males teeth cave under their knuckles they know that what theyre seeing is complete bullshit.

weight classes exist for reason. tom cruise does his scenes standing on a box for a reason. perception is reality. and the perception that a roster of rey mysterios are tough guys will only be reasonable for a group of very weak men. next time you watch a wrestling look to the crowd. take in the type of people theyre attracting. youll notice a common thread. compare that to a boxing or mma event. in the past they were the same crowd. they arent now. that CAN change btw. you can draw them.

try to logic your way around this issue all you like. this will be true no matter what you say. there's a very large sect of males who want to watch manly men do manly things. to inspire them. to motivate them. and manly men doing manly things brings in women too which in turn brings in more men to be around the women.

instead we have guys like cm punk, who is worthless in a fight. guys like seth rollins who get frightened when theyre attacked. these guys are just playing wrestlers.

we used to have actual wrestlers. guys who could walk into a bar at 2 am and clear thar mother fucker out. guys who walked away from plane crashes. guys who slit bruiser brodys throat over a dispute. you bought them because they werent bullshit.

people want to believe. we all have the understanding that its bull shit. like watching magic or like going to a film. but like a film the casting absolutely matters. if you went to a biopic about Arnold Schwarzenegger and the male lead was 5'4 and 140lbs with a beer gut and they played it straight youd walk out.

you can def have smaller guys as a part of your troupe if built properly. Benoit was always believable for example. but this idea that its simply not a factor is completely out of touch with reality and very basic human psychology.

its the difference of stumbling on a raccoon vs a bear. this is about fundamental evolutionary human psychology and a generation thats grown so privileged to live so far removed from anything that resembles real conflict and that theyve lost touch with reality is why this concept could ever arise in the first place.

its not just a bad take. its not just wrong. its an anti-truth. and it wasnt worth typing all this out.
Fantastic fucking post.
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Old 12-06-2021, 07:56 AM   #112
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On the comic book thing, and there are many reasons the analogy falls down: If Spider-Man didn’t have his strength, spider sense, etc. If he was just a guy in a costume who pretended to beat up bad guys who also didn’t have any powers, and weren’t even physically menacing — would you give a shit? Wrestling might think it’s promoting Spider-Man vs. The Lizard, but they’re closer to promoting Peter Parker vs. Doc Connors.

The testosterone has really been taken out of wrestling. It’s escapism where violence and physical prowess rule the day. That’s been stripped away for a detached appreciation of the performance as an intention. You can definitely see it in the crowds.
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Old 12-06-2021, 09:47 AM   #113
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Of all the comic book characters Slik could have chosen, he picks one with one of the most broken, op power sets out there.
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Old 12-06-2021, 11:25 AM   #114
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I don't mind a smaller guy getting the better of a bigger guy as long as it makes sense. Rey Mysterio was mentioned earlier, and is a perfect example. Mysterio isn't out there winning tests of strength, and strike exchanges with bigger guys. He uses his quickness, and he uses his small size to his advantage by ducking under and jumping over attacks. When he does go on the offensive, he uses his entire body as an attack while using his momentum. Zack Sabre Jr. Is another example. Almost everyone he puts in a submission is bigger than him, but he always applies them in a way where he clearly has leverage over his opponent, so that it makes sense that he's locking these larger athletes into the hold.

I'm even okay with a small guy taking down a big guy with a kick to the head because A. I don't care how big you are, someone kicks you in the head, you're going to feel it, and B. A small guy being manhandled, and then hitting a big fat enziguri out of desperation is just a plain old fun spot.

But again, it all comes down to making sense. And even an average sized wrestler selling punches from guys like Marko stunt and drake maverick makes about as much sense as Steiner math.
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Old 12-06-2021, 01:26 PM   #115
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Rey Mysterio is underrated when it comes to his psychology. Not everybody can do what he does. It’s not just because he’s unique, but it’s because he’s really, really, really good. And that wasn’t enough to fool some people.
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Old 12-06-2021, 01:27 PM   #116
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Just throwing it out there that I cannot get into ZSJ, lol. The last match I saw him in was against Tomohiro Ishii and it was horrible. He tried to act too much like a bad-ass and I didn’t buy it. Somehow I still get intrigued by the idea of him working other people, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a ZSJ match I’ve actually enjoyed.
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Old 12-06-2021, 01:31 PM   #117
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There are times where he gets in strike exchanges and it's like "okay guy, stick to what you know", but he still deserves a mention for making his main repertoire of moves work on bigger guys.
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Old 12-06-2021, 01:35 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
There are times where he gets in strike exchanges and it's like "okay guy, stick to what you know", but he still deserves a mention for making his main repertoire of moves work on bigger guys.
Don’t disagree with that at all. His actual execution of submission holds, as you point out, is fine. It’s his overall psychology that zones me out, lol.
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Old 12-06-2021, 01:44 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrA View Post
I’ve watched guys like the Young Bucks wrestle a couple of times recently and if I’m being honest I thought they were pretty sloppy matches.
I'm not a big Young Bucks fan, I don't think most people here are big Young Bucks fan. I just find it hilarious in a way, that Vastardikai takes all these little pot shots at AEW on here from time to time and then goes and posts something comparing Bron Breaker to Goldberg. It's too funny to me.

If Bron Breaker was in AEW he'd just be labeled another 'indy darling' and 'vanilla midget'. Guaranteed. But since he's in WWE you get people, like Vastardikai, who instantly think he is so much larger than he actually is. It's a such a bizarre e-drone mentality.
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Old 12-06-2021, 01:48 PM   #120
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He's around the same height as Will Hobbs, Jeff Cobb, and Miro, and nobody calls those guys vanilla midgets.
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