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Old 12-27-2015, 11:03 PM   #521
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And Rey is clearly just far more badass and better at the force than he is. And it's great because it will make him fucking crazy and he will write about it in his journal, while combing his lustrous locks of hair.
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Old 12-27-2015, 11:07 PM   #522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruien View Post
I 100% agree Kylo should have destroyed both Finn and Rey with the lightsaber. I thought Finn lasted as long as he did was laughable. It seemed Kylo was at least going easy on Rey but Finn should have been crushed in a minute.
These stormtroopers seem to have some form of melee training, plus Kylo was injured, plus he was mocking Finn and playing with him, and then he eventually did fuck him up. Seems fine to me.
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Old 12-27-2015, 11:09 PM   #523
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Us being wrestling fans makes the talks about who should have beaten who in the battles hilarious.
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Old 12-27-2015, 11:15 PM   #524
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TFA Stormtroopers were much more of a threat than in the original movies as far as their ground combat
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Old 12-27-2015, 11:19 PM   #525
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Snoke says "There's been an awakening" all ominous and stuff. He's not talking about the light side in general, as luke is still out there. I took it to mean there is a person out there awakening their abilities in the force that has incredible potential and that person is Rey.

That and Kylo's battered body and psyche was enough to make rey's victory believable for me.

If this was a standalone film you could have a case for calling her overpiwered, but we know this is just the first chapter and we've got a long way to go. Bitch's bloodstream could be made of midichlorians for all we know.
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Old 12-27-2015, 11:23 PM   #526
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Yeah I don't think it'll be overlooked how this girl is just a crazy badass off the get go.
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Old 12-27-2015, 11:25 PM   #527
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In fact, I found that a welcome change in direction. We've already see the long hard grind to even really be able to do anything force related. If she's the super powerful badass motherfucker, I like the idea that she's some kind of force savant.

And this would obviously drive Kylo mad because he'd be trying so hard to be a conquerer but this girl is coming in and stealing his thunder. It's a new wrinkle and I like it.
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Old 12-28-2015, 12:46 AM   #528
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Originally Posted by wwe2222 View Post
While yes she is overpowered, i don't really see the criticisms not this. Characters like Batman and Superman are too, yet are still popular among fans and critics. Either the character works for you or doesn't.
Nobody at all is talking about if it works or not. Premise one was recognizing that she was OP. That is it.
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Old 12-28-2015, 01:12 AM   #529
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She's only overpowered if there is never an explanation as to why she's so powerful. It's a story about space wizards. They have carte blanche to make anyone as powerful as they want, even if tje reason is that she's a random prodigy. It would be consistant with the rest of the saga as there have never been any specifically clear rules on how the force does or doesn't work.

I honestly don't even see the point in debating this. Like I said, we've only seen the first part of the story, and it was meant as a setup. If further films don't deliver a satisfying answer to Rey's power , then you can say she's ovwrpowered, but right now its too early, and there are too many delibrately unanswered questions to make that call.
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Old 12-28-2015, 02:39 AM   #530
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Originally Posted by Fignuts HD Edition View Post

I honestly don't even see the point in debating this.
yep. that's about right.
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Old 12-28-2015, 03:07 AM   #531
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There was no debate. No variation of viewpoints. I was explaining how Rey is a Mary Sue.
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Old 12-28-2015, 03:17 AM   #532
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Quote:
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There was no debate. No variation of viewpoints. I was explaining how Rey is a Mary Sue.
Doesn't the three male writers disqualify that? A Mary Sue puts the super-perfect version of herself into the story.
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Old 12-28-2015, 03:24 AM   #533
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Mary Sue is used today as any infallible or otherwise 'perfect' characters. This is why I mentioned author appeals so much. Alice in the RE movies is regarded as a Mary Sue despite not being written by a woman. People have accused Gail Simone as making Nightwing her Gary Stu, even as she was very open about how much she connected with Barbara Gordon.

It's no longer contingent on the writer inserting his or herself.
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Old 12-28-2015, 04:28 AM   #534
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Quote:
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While yes she is overpowered, i don't really see the criticisms not this. Characters like Batman and Superman are too, yet are still popular among fans and critics. Either the character works for you or doesn't.
Superman is a character who has struggled for relevance because of his lack of vulnerability at times. He is also intentionally designed to be amazingly exceptional because of magical powers.

Batman, again, is a wealthy man who dedicated his life to training himself.

Rey is playing the role of the young hero from obscurity, but she knows everything and achieves everything. Part of this is lazy writing because the audience already knows so much, why bother having the protagonist have to learn it too? They also want to compensate for a lack of capable women in past Star Wars stuff so they go out of their way to make her beyond capable.

It's not 'too early' to address anything. The film is out. Writing some other detail two years from now doesn't change what this film is.
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Old 12-28-2015, 04:36 AM   #535
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just 514 days.
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Old 12-28-2015, 04:54 AM   #536
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Here's a thought: what if the intention of her being so intuitive and "OP" with no prior training is to set *her* up as the eventual surprise big bad? She seems like she'd be easily seduceable with becoming uber powerful very quickly and intending to help people, but becoming cocky and petty... coming from nothing but scrounging a living to, almost overnight, being a bigger badass than (her possible granddad) Vader is a possible road to follow, if not flirt with for two more movies.

I know she is set up for the trilogy hero role, but she might swerve everyone and go all Sephiroth. She seems the perfect candidate for eventual arrogance and someone having to put her down. And *then* the argument would shift from her being "OP", to "why did the girl have to die?" or somesuch. Or maybe she even is initially blind to her descent, like Luke seemed to be, and also eventually loses a limb. Maybe a leg, though. Make it different.
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Old 12-28-2015, 06:45 AM   #537
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It is very unlikely they would do something that bold with their only female hero. Just like John Cena, there's some meta-marketing here with Rey being the female face of Star Wars. She'll be tantamount to a Disney Princess, and no way in hell will they run blind into a minefield making her a villain down the line.
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Old 12-28-2015, 06:59 AM   #538
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I guess I just don't see the big deal in being a Mary Sue or whatever. Just like I don't care if the movie passes the Bechdel test. Daisy Ridley was engaging and great in her role. I think it fits the story perfectly fine. You guys can keep debating this non issue.

Im the meantime I'm going to see the movie again and enjoy it just like I did the first time.

I'm all for debating points of the film but I don't care for debating invented terms like this devised solely to invent criticism in films. I'll leave that to you experts.
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Old 12-28-2015, 07:25 AM   #539
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There was no debate.
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Old 12-28-2015, 10:05 AM   #540
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So Rey is Roman Reigns?
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Old 12-28-2015, 11:05 AM   #541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
Here's a thought: what if the intention of her being so intuitive and "OP" with no prior training is to set *her* up as the eventual surprise big bad? She seems like she'd be easily seduceable with becoming uber powerful very quickly and intending to help people, but becoming cocky and petty... coming from nothing but scrounging a living to, almost overnight, being a bigger badass than (her possible granddad) Vader is a possible road to follow, if not flirt with for two more movies.

I know she is set up for the trilogy hero role, but she might swerve everyone and go all Sephiroth. She seems the perfect candidate for eventual arrogance and someone having to put her down. And *then* the argument would shift from her being "OP", to "why did the girl have to die?" or somesuch. Or maybe she even is initially blind to her descent, like Luke seemed to be, and also eventually loses a limb. Maybe a leg, though. Make it different.
I think she will be Kylo's redemption when all is said and done and both will start a New Jedi Academy. If this trilogy is to mirror the original in certain aspects than some bad things are bound to happen leaving it up to Kylo, Finn, Chewie ( if he makes it through 8 ) and Poe to save the day and Rey in Episode 9.
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Old 12-28-2015, 11:08 AM   #542
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I do find it interesting that Lor San Tekka ended up on the same planet Rey was Abandoned.
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Old 12-28-2015, 11:27 AM   #543
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since its mirroring the original trilogy you think we will get another Christmas special?
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Old 12-28-2015, 11:32 AM   #544
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since its mirroring the original trilogy you think we will get another Christmas special?
Dear God no.
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Old 12-28-2015, 11:32 AM   #545
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I guess I just don't see the big deal in being a Mary Sue or whatever. Just like I don't care if the movie passes the Bechdel test. Daisy Ridley was engaging and great in her role. I think it fits the story perfectly fine. You guys can keep debating this non issue.

Im the meantime I'm going to see the movie again and enjoy it just like I did the first time.

I'm all for debating points of the film but I don't care for debating invented terms like this devised solely to invent criticism in films. I'll leave that to you experts.
Marry Me.
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Old 12-28-2015, 12:52 PM   #546
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I don't know if it is but I kind of got the feeling that Kylo Ren might have known who Rey was. When he takes off his helmet in front of her its like he's waiting for her to recognize him and she doesn't. Like said I don't think she was mind wiped but just to young to really remember anyone in her real family. He might not know her at all but that's just the feeling I got from the scene.
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Old 12-28-2015, 01:01 PM   #547
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I don't know if it is but I kind of got the feeling that Kylo Ren might have known who Rey was. When he takes off his helmet in front of her its like he's waiting for her to recognize him and she doesn't. Like said I don't think she was mind wiped but just to young to really remember anyone in her real family. He might not know her at all but that's just the feeling I got from the scene.
I dont think he knows her. He takes off the helmet after she makes some comment about him being a monster or something.
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Old 12-28-2015, 01:01 PM   #548
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same
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Old 12-28-2015, 01:04 PM   #549
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Yeah that might be its just a feeling I got from the scene but I could be totally wrong.
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Old 12-28-2015, 01:22 PM   #550
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Usually in movies if you get the feeling, it's what they're going for. I think it's why he was so eager on training her.
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Old 12-28-2015, 01:25 PM   #551
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remember in Episode 6, how Luke immediately realizes Leia is his sister and then Leia goes "I always knew" when he tells her.

I dont know if he's going to "know" it flat out, but the knowlege of it is at the very least an intuition he has because of the force.
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Old 12-28-2015, 02:13 PM   #552
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I think that was after he took the mask off and tried to read her mind though
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Old 12-28-2015, 02:42 PM   #553
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We don't know enough about her past upbringing to know what she knew beforehand about the Jedi to judge.
yes we do... she thought they were myths.
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Old 12-28-2015, 02:42 PM   #554
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something something something Mary Sue OP
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Old 12-28-2015, 04:52 PM   #555
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Too bad they ruled out any shot of her in a space bikini.
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Old 12-28-2015, 05:00 PM   #556
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since its mirroring the original trilogy you think we will get another Christmas special?
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Old 12-28-2015, 07:08 PM   #557
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Who thinks they will actually do a love story with fin and ray?
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Old 12-28-2015, 07:15 PM   #558
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That seems like the way their going. I could see Fin being killed by Kylo Ren though to.
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Old 12-28-2015, 08:18 PM   #559
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So, if he is a goner, wouldn't having Lando come back to help avenge him make sense?

"Hey Ben you piece of shit, Chewie and I are here to make your ass pay. Then we're gonna drink some Colt .45 and piss on your grave you fucking emo little shit."
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Old 12-28-2015, 08:42 PM   #560
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If he's Lando's kid I guess it would. He could live and find his parents if they are still alive to have his own little story.
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