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Old 11-05-2022, 08:36 PM   #4681
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Old 11-05-2022, 09:07 PM   #4682
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If the anti-aew take was punk was in the wrong then that would be the take we'd have been reading in this thread for the past several weeks. Its anti-objectivity.
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Old 11-05-2022, 09:19 PM   #4683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruien View Post
Interesting. Losing CM Punk, as much as I don't like him personally, won't be good for AEW.
The slant from AEW is suggesting that losing CM Punk is good because he’s terrible to have in the locker room — a disease, etc. But Chris Jericho’s top of the hour segment with Colt Cabana did lose 13% of viewers, so there’s that.
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Old 11-05-2022, 09:23 PM   #4684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
If the anti-aew take was punk was in the wrong then that would be the take we'd have been reading in this thread for the past several weeks. Its anti-objectivity.
The AEW side is not objective. Anti-Punk sentiments run deep too.
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Old 11-05-2022, 09:28 PM   #4685
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You’re not going to get any objective takes, Ruien. I gave you what’s being reported and what we know so far. I don’t think anyone would argue with how I’ve laid that out. It’s a close to objective as you’re going to get.

I’ll add on top that I don’t trust AEW, their investigation or The Elite. Not a giant Punk fan either. There’s likely to be more that plays out from this whole mess.
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Old 11-05-2022, 09:32 PM   #4686
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Seph and Destor both have stiffies for anything that hurts Punk. I don’t think either of them would call that “objectivity.” That’s just a smokescreen anyway. Say what you really think.
Last edited by Mr. Nerfect; 11-05-2022 at 09:38 PM.
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Old 11-05-2022, 09:39 PM   #4687
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I don't think it matters really who is right or wrong. Losing CM Punk is losing star power.
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Old 11-05-2022, 09:49 PM   #4688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruien View Post
I don't think it matters really who is right or wrong. Losing CM Punk is losing star power.
The ratings haven’t nosedived, but they certainly aren’t helped by him not being there. Even the Meltzer camp has suggested that Punk was good for business — I don’t know if they are talking about more important metrics than Nielsen ratings. But even if the effects don’t seem great right now — we don’t know what things are going to be like when the average fan cottons on. Punk’s in that DNA now.
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Old 11-05-2022, 10:00 PM   #4689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
Seph and Destor both have stiffies for anything that hurts Punk. I don’t think either of them would call that “objectivity.” That’s just a smokescreen anyway. Say what you really think.
I was just thinking about posters with ridiculous, irrational anti-Punk stiffies. Seph and Destor were the first two who came to mind. Can’t even think of a close third.

Last edited by #1-norm-fan; 11-06-2022 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 11-05-2022, 10:05 PM   #4690
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Elaborate on irrational
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Old 11-05-2022, 10:05 PM   #4691
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And ridiculous. Please be specific
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Old 11-06-2022, 12:23 AM   #4692
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*crickets*
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Old 11-06-2022, 01:08 AM   #4693
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If I recall correctly, destor's main point is that this kind of shit follows punk wherever he goes.

Nothing irrational about that. It's fact.

Personally, I favor WeX's outlook. They're all fucking children.
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Old 11-06-2022, 01:13 AM   #4694
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Fignuts get it.

If trouble follows you everywhere you go then you might just be the problem.
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Old 11-06-2022, 01:23 AM   #4695
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End of the day, the main person to blame here is tony khan. His, company, his talent, his fault things got to this point.
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Old 11-06-2022, 01:24 AM   #4696
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Also true.
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Old 11-06-2022, 01:27 AM   #4697
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He should have cut Punk off at the presser and then took him behind the curtain and told him that a company presser is not the place to air his grievances. Follow that up with a meeting between all parties with a mediator and legal to hash out their differences and come to an understand. Then work a fucking angle off of it and print money.

But he chose to sit there with coke glazed eyes looking like "What's going on? Why is my toy talking back? I didn't pay for this. Does anyone know where I can get some more coke?"
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Old 11-06-2022, 01:28 AM   #4698
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You don't have to be objective in order to be correct.

Punk is a no credibility having, bitter douchebag. He also never main evented Wrestlemania because he was not good enough. He looks like he smells bad, and is more fragile than the lamp from A Christmas Story.
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Old 11-06-2022, 01:29 AM   #4699
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Sometimes I wonder if Tony is legit scared to stand up to the guys. He acts like it. I think he thinks if he bucks up to them that they'll just kick his ass.
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Old 11-06-2022, 01:29 AM   #4700
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Tony should have hired Steve Blackman as talent relations.

One example being set would have been all it took to keep everyone in line.
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Old 11-06-2022, 01:31 AM   #4701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
The AEW side is not objective. Anti-Punk sentiments run deep too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepholio View Post
Sometimes I wonder if Tony is legit scared to stand up to the guys. He acts like it. I think he thinks if he bucks up to them that they'll just kick his ass.
Of course hes too scared. Hes too chicken shit to call them on the phone to tell them they're released. Hes not confronting anyone face to face.
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Old 11-06-2022, 01:36 AM   #4702
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I mean I readily admit I don't like Punk. I have no use for him beyond his mic skills. Always thought he was overrated and his massive ego shut the door on me reconsidering a long, long time ago.

The thing here is though...I don't like any of these dudes. Punk sucks, The Elite suck (although Kenny can put on some damn good matches from time to time), and TK sucks. They all fucking suck. I don't have a dog in this fight, I don't prefer any of them over the others. I'm just calling it like I see it. I'm not going to make up stories about Jericho sleeping with Megha Parekh though and try to blame some of the fallout on that, so I feel I'm infinitely more objective about it than Noid who clearly just absolutely loathes the elite.

Trying to downplay Jerichos place in wrestling is just laughable. Dude is on the short list of people talked about when the GOAT topic comes up. He is better at every aspect of the game than any of these other clowns.
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Old 11-06-2022, 01:07 AM   #4703
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With this current issue: punks airing your grievances publicly burried the company. AEW comes out looking like busch league bullshit. And maybe it is. But you dont pull back the curtain and show the world.

The old adage "its better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."

People's jobs are on the line here. We're talking not just the workers being hurt here but their families too. Being the top guy, especially in a young promotion thats just as likely to fold as it is to grow, is super serious. Its everything. You hold in your hands lives. Normal human lives.

"Page said some shit he shouldn't have publicly so fuck it i will too" is only justified if you're an unapologetic willful hypocrite. Punk is the veteran and the champion. He is THE guy. The role he's demanded his entire career as a matter of owed moral virtue. Everything he's ever claimed was his rightful place is at his feet.

Instead of putting the company over by being the strongest champion you can be you jeopardize the whole thing on a petty grudge. Save that for parking lot if it needs to be handled. Instead he casually risks the lively hood of every guy on the roster, least not of all the young guys who would never make a dime without AEW.

He cant possibly be the moral actor here. There likely isnt one for the record but it cant be him if one exists. Hes the champion with twice the experience. He has to be held to a higher standard than Page or the Bucks or whomever without question.

If he cant lead by example, and with the singular focus of elevating the company for the sake of all involved, he's unfit for the position and theyre better off without him.

And yes the self serving tantrums are Punks legacy. This isnt new. Its beyond a pattern. Its pathological. AEW might be shit. It might be the worst shit to ever be released to audeinces in the history of wrestling. Maybe all thats true. Its moot. It doesnt make Punk in the right here. Those things are unrelated. The elites actions ex post facto or otherwise are unrelated.

Ispo facto Punk stirred shit unprofessionally. Had he handled this very typical wrestling drama like a professional this wouldnt be a topic and the company would at least not have what i think we all agree, even if we point fingers in opposite directions, very visible black eye.

It shouldnt be shocking that veterans that don't want to work 300 days a year as their bodies break down with age dont want punk back. He's bad for business. Not because he cant get over but because you cant trust him with the spotlight.
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Old 11-06-2022, 01:12 AM   #4704
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If punk was half the talker he thinks he is he'd have spun every question to be about the company, the title and his future there in.
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Old 11-06-2022, 01:13 AM   #4705
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Destor wins.

Flawless victory.

FATALITY
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Old 11-06-2022, 01:13 AM   #4706
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And as far as what tribe im in im firmly in the tribe that makes as many well paying jobs in the business as possible. That shit aint it
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Old 11-06-2022, 03:20 AM   #4707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
If I recall correctly, destor's main point is that this kind of shit follows punk wherever he goes.

Nothing irrational about that. It's fact.

Personally, I favor WeX's outlook. They're all fucking children.
Correlation isn’t causation. I don’t agree with Punk’s gripes about WWE wholesale. But his issues there are different to the issues he has had in AEW. Paul Heyman has had issues everywhere he went before this WWE run. Omega and The Bucks have had issues.

Punk’s no doubt opinionated and when he was younger I don’t think he saw the bigger picture at all. But that doesn’t justify the mess AEW is.

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Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
End of the day, the main person to blame here is tony khan. His, company, his talent, his fault things got to this point.
Oh I agree with this. 100%. Part of the issue with Punk’s meltdown, in my opinion, is that Punk probably lent on Tony to clean this shit up with Page, The Elite and probably a bunch of other issues too (Thunder Rosa is experiencing shit right now, for example).

The World Champion of your company goes out on live television with a live mic and tries to bury you and diminish whatever drawing power you have. Ok, what are you going to do boss? Literally nothing? Fucking great.

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Originally Posted by Sepholio View Post
He should have cut Punk off at the presser and then took him behind the curtain and told him that a company presser is not the place to air his grievances. Follow that up with a meeting between all parties with a mediator and legal to hash out their differences and come to an understand. Then work a fucking angle off of it and print money.

But he chose to sit there with coke glazed eyes looking like "What's going on? Why is my toy talking back? I didn't pay for this. Does anyone know where I can get some more coke?"
Don’t disagree with this at all. Buuuut, I’ll go a step forward and say these pressers are fucking stupid in conception. Don’t fucking do them. If you’re doing them, do them in fucking kayfabe.

But hey, like most things with Punk, what he said didn’t really break the fourth wall. He’s not programmed with The Elite, but it’s within the realm of kayfabe they’re EVPs.

The things he said that really buried the company, in my opinion, were suggesting Page hadn’t done anything in the business (burying the title). And if they were EVPs of mine (and they wouldn’t be), I’d take someone publicly discrediting them professionally as disrespecting my decisions to put people in those roles.

As a “work,” it made AEW look like an incompetent mess. That doesn’t help. But AEW does a good job of that themselves too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
You don't have to be objective in order to be correct.

Punk is a no credibility having, bitter douchebag. He also never main evented Wrestlemania because he was not good enough. He looks like he smells bad, and is more fragile than the lamp from A Christmas Story.
Everything you said here could be said about Kenny Omega too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepholio View Post
Sometimes I wonder if Tony is legit scared to stand up to the guys. He acts like it. I think he thinks if he bucks up to them that they'll just kick his ass.
I don’t think he’s afraid they’ll kick his ass. But there’s some issue there. It’s like he’s afraid to disappoint people, ignoring that they’re going to be disappointed when things go to shit whether or not he has the conversation beforehand. And they’ll probably be mad at him for avoiding that.

He’s terrible at managing people. People joke about them being action figures for him, but I kind of think he wishes they were like that. He doesn’t get their egos, the politics, etc. Some dudes are going to be happy sitting in the back just getting paid, some are going to want to go out there and show people what they can do.

I think the guy wants a legacy, and it to be a popular one, and this desire to please has him making too many promises he’s not going to be able to keep too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
Tony should have hired Steve Blackman as talent relations.

One example being set would have been all it took to keep everyone in line.
Is he any less qualified than anyone else with an executive position in that company?

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Originally Posted by Sepholio View Post
I mean I readily admit I don't like Punk. I have no use for him beyond his mic skills. Always thought he was overrated and his massive ego shut the door on me reconsidering a long, long time ago.

The thing here is though...I don't like any of these dudes. Punk sucks, The Elite suck (although Kenny can put on some damn good matches from time to time), and TK sucks. They all fucking suck. I don't have a dog in this fight, I don't prefer any of them over the others. I'm just calling it like I see it. I'm not going to make up stories about Jericho sleeping with Megha Parekh though and try to blame some of the fallout on that, so I feel I'm infinitely more objective about it than Noid who clearly just absolutely loathes the elite.

Trying to downplay Jerichos place in wrestling is just laughable. Dude is on the short list of people talked about when the GOAT topic comes up. He is better at every aspect of the game than any of these other clowns.
I don’t like Punk that much either. You don’t get to pretend to be the only one without a horse lol. And you’re way overrating Jericho. Some people bring up Jericho as a GOAT, but he’s really not up there. That’s smark bullshit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
With this current issue: punks airing your grievances publicly burried the company. AEW comes out looking like busch league bullshit. And maybe it is. But you dont pull back the curtain and show the world.

The old adage "its better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."

People's jobs are on the line here. We're talking not just the workers being hurt here but their families too. Being the top guy, especially in a young promotion thats just as likely to fold as it is to grow, is super serious. Its everything. You hold in your hands lives. Normal human lives.

"Page said some shit he shouldn't have publicly so fuck it i will too" is only justified if you're an unapologetic willful hypocrite. Punk is the veteran and the champion. He is THE guy. The role he's demanded his entire career as a matter of owed moral virtue. Everything he's ever claimed was his rightful place is at his feet.

Instead of putting the company over by being the strongest champion you can be you jeopardize the whole thing on a petty grudge. Save that for parking lot if it needs to be handled. Instead he casually risks the lively hood of every guy on the roster, least not of all the young guys who would never make a dime without AEW.

He cant possibly be the moral actor here. There likely isnt one for the record but it cant be him if one exists. Hes the champion with twice the experience. He has to be held to a higher standard than Page or the Bucks or whomever without question.

If he cant lead by example, and with the singular focus of elevating the company for the sake of all involved, he's unfit for the position and theyre better off without him.

And yes the self serving tantrums are Punks legacy. This isnt new. Its beyond a pattern. Its pathological. AEW might be shit. It might be the worst shit to ever be released to audeinces in the history of wrestling. Maybe all thats true. Its moot. It doesnt make Punk in the right here. Those things are unrelated. The elites actions ex post facto or otherwise are unrelated.

Ispo facto Punk stirred shit unprofessionally. Had he handled this very typical wrestling drama like a professional this wouldnt be a topic and the company would at least not have what i think we all agree, even if we point fingers in opposite directions, very visible black eye.

It shouldnt be shocking that veterans that don't want to work 300 days a year as their bodies break down with age dont want punk back. He's bad for business. Not because he cant get over but because you cant trust him with the spotlight.
I don’t disagree with your premise here, but I think that’s why Punk is angry. I genuinely think he tried to come in and make AEW better. And there’s a self-serving element to that. Punk’s always wrapped his drama in “I’m doing this for (x) too.” He’s said his walkout in 2014 was partially because Bryan wasn’t getting the big push. There could be truth to that, but it could be a convenient way to appear altruistic too.

Page going out there and doing what he did was ridiculous. He was champion then too. That’s where TK needs to step in. He didn’t. The internet thing is to say Punk got hurt, stewed on it for months and finally came up with a response. I think it’s way more reasonable to assume he was probably amazed at the bullshit, didn’t try to deal with it publicly and asked Tony to clean it up. That didn’t happen. I don’t agree with what Punk did in front of the cameras, but I can understand the frustration he must be feeling when nothing is done when it’s kept behind the scenes. And the marks all act like what is publicly known is the only truth anyway (the dog thing, Punk not doing anything until he fired back on Page, etc.).

A lot of people assume that Punk firing off on Page and in the press conference were Punk’s first responses to this stuff. I’m sure it was brewing for a long fucking time and Tony Khan was asked to fucking do something about it before I feel like I fucking have to.
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Old 11-06-2022, 03:23 AM   #4708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
If punk was half the talker he thinks he is he'd have spun every question to be about the company, the title and his future there in.
I agree with this. There was a better execution for sure. But what he did certainly did resonate. But he could have fired shots that built up his reign and other guys way better.

But then you’ve still got the problem of what happens when The Elite hear him do that, then target the guys he mentions or works with after that, and what TK is going to do to stop it. Which is nothing.
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Old 11-06-2022, 03:24 AM   #4709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
And as far as what tribe im in im firmly in the tribe that makes as many well paying jobs in the business as possible. That shit aint it
It’s funny, because that’s why I take CM Punk’s side in this instance.
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Old 11-06-2022, 08:19 AM   #4710
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I was just thinking about posters with ridiculous, irrational anti-Punk stiffies. Seph and Destor were the first two who came to mind. Can’t even think of a close third.
I have returned to add a “” to this post.
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Old 11-06-2022, 08:41 AM   #4711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepholio View Post
Trying to downplay Jerichos place in wrestling is just laughable. Dude is on the short list of people talked about when the GOAT topic comes up. He is better at every aspect of the game than any of these other clowns.
This is a point I’d like to discuss though IF I CAN BE SERIOUS FOR A MOMENT. I like Jericho as a performer even now. But I see his name and “GOAT” mentioned entirely too much lately and that’s just… insanity.
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Old 11-06-2022, 08:57 AM   #4712
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He's not the GOAT, but he's good enough that he could be on people's personal shortlist, as seph said.
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Old 11-06-2022, 08:59 AM   #4713
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Here's a question. Did Punk ever confront Page directly over his promo, or did he just tell Tony to deal with it?
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Old 11-06-2022, 12:12 PM   #4714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-norm-fan
This is a point I’d like to discuss though IF I CAN BE SERIOUS FOR A MOMENT. I like Jericho as a performer even now. But I see his name and “GOAT” mentioned entirely too much lately and that’s just… insanity.
Longevity and reinvention are often the reasons I see given.
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Old 11-06-2022, 12:55 PM   #4715
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@noid my post wasnt intended to launch a debate. We've both clearly thought the topic through and are entrenched in our conclusions. I think my stance speaks for itself well enough. My posts intent was clearly establish that my stance is neither irrational or ridiculous. Disagree with my take, fair enough, but rationality shouldnt be up for debate.
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Old 11-06-2022, 12:56 PM   #4716
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(And this is of course after realizing that fan was not being serious)
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Old 11-06-2022, 02:29 PM   #4717
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He's not the GOAT, but he's good enough that he could be on people's personal shortlist, as seph said.
I can agree with this.
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Old 11-06-2022, 02:31 PM   #4718
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Quote:
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Here's a question. Did Punk ever confront Page directly over his promo, or did he just tell Tony to deal with it?
We don’t know. But it’s not objective to say that he didn’t because you don’t like the guy — which I see people doing.
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Old 11-06-2022, 02:33 PM   #4719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
@noid my post wasnt intended to launch a debate. We've both clearly thought the topic through and are entrenched in our conclusions. I think my stance speaks for itself well enough. My posts intent was clearly establish that my stance is neither irrational or ridiculous. Disagree with my take, fair enough, but rationality shouldnt be up for debate.
That’s fair. You’ve definitely thought things through. I don’t think I ever said you were irrational, sorry if I did.
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Old 11-10-2022, 05:17 PM   #4720
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