Chavo Rips John Cena

[Tazz Dan]

From the front page:

Ok, don’t “Fin” say that people will talk about this for years if you’re going to let Punk do all the work and not deliver at the PPV, Cena. I am tired and I know fans are tired of WWE Superstars talking big and not delivering. We don’t want to see someone just in a fight. And frankly no one believes it anymore. If Miz can kick your ass then the clerk at the store can kick your ass, so please deliver if you say that..

“People will remember this PPV. You know Punk will bring “it”. I’ve been in the ring with both of you and Punk has “it”. Cena you have mic skills yes but if you think people believe your BS lazy comeback that you do exactly the same every match then you are mistaken. Eddie and I taught you different. We never said “get lazy” and do the damn thing every night. We always said “think out of the box” and give the fans what they deserve and not rely on the “machine” to “get you over”.

“I hope this lights a fire under your ass and you deliver this Sunday. Don’t just rest on you being over cause you are and that is easy. Challenge yourself and give the fans what they deserve. That’s why they boo you. Because they aren’t stupid. They know what they pay for and the “great” promo guy but the shitty “match” guy that you have become is not what they want. I understand “longevity” but at the sacrifice of the fans trust is not worth it. Deliver on your fans and deliver on why you got into this business. Eventually the fans that you have gained with from the purple t-shirts will turn on you. Take a lesson from the Hulkster. Give the fans there $ worth and don’t become just another “promo” guy. I know you love this biz and don’t get distracted from the McMahon $. Deliver please!! Have enough respect for your fans because without them, you’re working at a fast food chain.

“Love you man and I support you and hope you see this because I know Punk will and I know he’s going to bring it because he’s got nothing to lose!”

What do you guys think? Personally I think he's hit the nail on the head in terms of Cena. This isn't a "John cena suxs" post or anything either, I believe he's just put it perfectly.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's certainly interesting. It starts off looking like Chavo is just grabbing at attention, but he seems to go on to explain how good Cena is, and how he can deliver when he shoots the script. It's interesting to see the way Chavo talks to Cena. You can tell there's some sort of respect there. Otherwise, Chavo is just a huge douche, haha.

[Rock Bottom]

1000000000000000% agree.

This had better be good. Everyone is expecting punk to deliver. I am wondering a lot about how this match is scripted, as is everyone, but it had better be done well, or I'm going to post that it was bad. (I mean it.)

Cena better do some work in this match. But I really do wonder how much he can do. Whatever happens, watching Cena's promo on RAW Monday is going to be like watching a bad car crash again, I'm going to think it's lame no matter how awesome the match was.

I am starting to really get sick of his character. But I will can that in the name of keeping this from being another vent of Cena hatred.

Bravo Chavo.

[Rock Bottom]

He also mentioned "If The Miz can kick your ass," and he's right. The Miz literally just beat the shit out of him for their entire feud. Now Miz is getting his ass kicked by Alex Riley, someone who lost to Cena in a squash match. It is very lazy.

Hogan whipped peoples' ass. Hart whipped ass. Austin whipped ass. Rock whipped ass. You're supposed to save that "I'm getting the shit beat out of me, give me the strength for this AA jebus please!" stuff for when Andre the Giant is working you around the ring, or working with a strongly booked hoss of some kind.

In Cena's defense, he probably was trying to at least get Miz over a little, but there's an art to that. You wanna see a guy get made in the ring, look at Hart. And if you're not on his level in the ring, at least take some pointers from the attitude guys. They were all good at making things pretty believable whether they won or lost.

[tjmidnight420]

I thought it was an interesting read, and I agree with Chavo. Most people have forgotten that Cena can actually wrestle to an extent, and he's been pretty lazy for awhile. Shake it up already.

[Next Big Thing]

Open letters like this are bullshit and it's more Chavo bringing attention to Chavo than actually giving a damn about Cena giving the fans their money's worth. If you want to light a fire under the guy's ass and you're so close wouldn't a phone call, voicemail, email, text or direct twitter message be more constructive than a long ass letter for all to see?

Everyone knows Punk's going to bring it and I'm sure Cena gets how big this is without Chavo Guerrero of all people pointing it out to him. He's just piling on the Cena hate train because it's convenient for other wrestlers to do so at the moment.

I love how he cites Hogan as an example of how to be. Hogan wouldn't let Chavo piss in the stall next to him, let alone look strong in a match against him. Hogan is the guy who no sold Savage and Vader, cut Flair's robe up into a muscle gown and refused to give an inch to Shawn when they were planning their match. Hogan's mic skills and t-shirts kept him going more than his ring skills. Yes, Cena should be more like Hogan. That way we get feuds where after three weeks of Cena's corny promos, he just completely buries his opponents instead of just giving us a lazy comeback.

[Rock Bottom]

I don't subscribe to this whole theory of "Chavo trying to get attention," imagine if Chavo Guerrero posted on TPWW. It'd be the same thing. Well, he didn't. He's a pro wrestler. And he did it on what, twitter? Everyone voices their opinions on twitter. Yes, sometimes people are just saying random shit. And everyone can certainly agree or disagree with what people say, but for the most part, they're just stating their opinions with more of an audience.

Same thing happened when Hogan mentioned Edge's retirement.

Also, Chavo left because he was sick of that shit, he's bound to have something to say now that he doesn't have to keep it canned.

[Rock Bottom]

Whether you like him or not, by the way, Hogan is one of the greatest ever. A lot feel that he's overstayed his welcome in wrestling, and some don't. None of that will ever change what he's accomplished in wrestling, and it will never change that he will go down in history in rare company. If you follow that for what it is, telling him to take a lesson from Hogan is not a bad idea at all.

He didn't say be Hulk Hogan, or do the things Hogan has done to "piss people off." Hogan had huge success, and there is always something to be learned from people that do.

[Next Big Thing]

Before CSL comes riding in with his white font, yes I think it's cool that a medium like Twitter allows people to express their opinions. Twitter is also a platform where people can get attention though and in my opinion, it was kind of self serving. He addressed Cena directly and said some stuff that was guaranteed to get people talking about him when he could have just as easily sent Cena that message over Twitter as a direct PM. Hogan was merely commenting on the retirement as an old timer. It's not like he called Edge out personally for retiring.

As far as Hogan goes, he is one of the greatest ever and guess what, it's not because he was a five star wrestler. He was beating guys by hulking up, booting them in the face and dropping a leg. That's no different than Cena's lame move set. Let's be honest, he was involved in some of the worst matches of the decade during that NWO run and he was arguably just as popular as he was during the Hulkamania run. Also, some of the stuff Hogan did to piss people off helped him stay on top. Hogan used the creative control clause in his contract like a sword.

[Emperor Smeat]

I see what Chavo is trying to get with how this could be the biggest match of 2011 for the WWE and while Punk will be able to carry his end of the load, he's worried that Cena or whoever is writing the match is going to "ruin" the ending as was the case with a lot of main events both on tv and on ppv this year.

He doesn't want to see a match where Punk gets all the offense and then at the last minute suddenly looses (ex. Miz in the I Quit) or the ending falls flat and "ruins" what would have been a great match (ex. Kane beating Taker by having Bearer flash some light to Undertaker in the urn).

I also sort of see what he meant by Hogan since while Hogan won a lot, he was able to sell moves a lot better than Cena which made hi s matches more "believable" or watchable regardless of the ending. His promo skills were a lot better in helping to sell why you should watch or care about his match at a ppv.

[chrisat928]

Who the fuck is Chavo to question Cena?

We've seen in the past that Cena can step up when he needs to. We've seen his previous matches with Punk, and they were great.

Complete attention whoring on Chavo's part.

[CSL]

Before CSL comes riding in with his white font

<marquee>--:cool:</marquee>
<marquee>http://www.highprofits.com/affiliate-forum/images/smilies/car-smiley-011.gif</marquee>

name dropping in other forums to try and help your filthy election campaign though? This is scandalous

[Wolfpack423]

John Cena puts his all into a major PPV settings at all times. He has brought his A Game to every major PPV battle he has ever had in my opinion. Personally, I have never really liked Chavo and never understood why people thought he was so great in the ring. Him and CM Punk are both going to make a great match and if Punk was going against somebody else, I honestly don't think many people would care. If it was against Orton, it would be all Punk as Orton's promos are long and monotonous. don't get me wrong I like Orton, but I don't think the match would be the same with him. The only other person where this would work as well is HHH. I still am hoping we get that match at Summerslam as I feel Orton vs. Henry and Cena vs. Del Rio will be the title matches so they need a main event that can sell the PPV well.

[Wolfpack423]

I see what Chavo is trying to get with how this could be the biggest match of 2011 for the WWE and while Punk will be able to carry his end of the load, he's worried that Cena or whoever is writing the match is going to "ruin" the ending as was the case with a lot of main events both on tv and on ppv this year.

He doesn't want to see a match where Punk gets all the offense and then at the last minute suddenly looses (ex. Miz in the I Quit) or the ending falls flat and "ruins" what would have been a great match (ex. Kane beating Taker by having Bearer flash some light to Undertaker in the urn).

I also sort of see what he meant by Hogan since while Hogan won a lot, he was able to sell moves a lot better than Cena which made hi s matches more "believable" or watchable regardless of the ending. His promo skills were a lot better in helping to sell why you should watch or care about his match at a ppv.

Honestly, Miz losing the title was my favorite moment this year so far. Cena is this generation's Hogan and I believe he deserves his spot. He's worked hard as a main eventer for years to earn that spot.

[Tom Guycott]

I thought it was an interesting read, and I agree with Chavo. Most people have forgotten that Cena can actually wrestle to an extent, and he's been pretty lazy for awhile. Shake it up already.

:y:

[GD]

Hats off to Chavo. I really hope Cena delivers at the ppv.

[Razzamajazz]

i've been debating whether or not to buy this ppv or to see it on a stream. tbh i kinda want to pay for it. i can't even describe how hard it's been to predict the outcome for the tipsters :$

[Londoner]

Agreed with everything Chavo says.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Chavo should help John Cena save the WWE at Money in the Bank. :y:

[St. Jimmy]

John cena sux.

[lam1610]

thank god punk is leaving!! but as much as i dis like him he is good in the ring and cena sucks.

[Londoner]

thank god punk is leaving!! but as much as i dis like him he is good in the ring and cena sucks.

Having seen this and now your other post,.... shut up troll. :)

[Nicky Fives]

hammer, meet nail...... I like Chavo much more now.....

[Rammsteinmad]

One thing I absolutely fucking hate about Cena's character, and this is what I think most of Chavo's post is aimed at, is that stupid routine with the two shoulder tackles, the weird slam Cena does followed by the 5KS. I fucking hate every time, how the opponents gets knocked down twice and then coincidently goes for a haymaker that Cena manages to duck EVERY TIME!!!

[Chavo Classic]

Why does Chavo think he's a big enough star to comment on this?

[Rammsteinmad]

Why does Chavo Classic think he's a big enough star to comment on Chavo Guerrero's comment on John Cena?

[Tazz Dan]

One thing I absolutely fucking hate about Cena's character, and this is what I think most of Chavo's post is aimed at, is that stupid routine with the two shoulder tackles, the weird slam Cena does followed by the 5KS. I fucking hate every time, how the opponents gets knocked down twice and then coincidently goes for a haymaker that Cena manages to duck EVERY TIME!!!

[Kane Knight]

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/M8oDxuo4xHw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

(The official video is disabled from embeds, but the point remains)

[Rock Bottom]

He was beating guys by hulking up, booting them in the face and dropping a leg. That's no different than Cena's lame move set.

It is different relative to the time period.

[Rock Bottom]

Also, for Tazz Dan and Rammsteinmad.


http://ikindofwantwrestling.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/cenamove4.jpg

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http://ikindofwantwrestling.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/cenamove4.jpg

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[Tom Guycott]

... you forgot the Five Knuckle Shuffle, Rock Bottom.

[Gerard]

Who the fuck is Chavo to question Cena?



Somebody that can wrestle a hell of a lot better than Cena?

[Rock Bottom]

... you forgot the Five Knuckle Shuffle, Rock Bottom.

Too lazy right now.

[St. Jimmy]

http://quizilla.teennick.com/user_images/A/AM/AMA/AMAYASAKI14/1285451195_5160_full.jpeg

[Mr. JL]

Chavo Guerrero basically said what most internet fans say about John Cena.

With that said, I'd rather watch a John Cena match than a Chavo Guerrro match. Although I will make an exception to this so long as Eddie Guerrero is somehow involved.

[captaincharismark]

One thing I absolutely fucking hate about Cena's character, and this is what I think most of Chavo's post is aimed at, is that stupid routine with the two shoulder tackles, the weird slam Cena does followed by the 5KS. I fucking hate every time, how the opponents gets knocked down twice and then coincidently goes for a haymaker that Cena manages to duck EVERY TIME!!!

I think Chavo pretty well summed up why most fans don't like Cena. He relies on the same tired routine without making a change. You'd think by now Cena's opponents would know NOT to punch at him after taking 4 shoulder blocks.:n:

I disagree too with the theory that Chavo is doing this for attention. I'm sure alot of guys in the locker room would like to tell Cena this, but can't or won't for fear of punishment by management. Any fan that has seen Cena from the beginning has seen his potential and it's apparent that he could try harder. Which is funny b/c he claims to have so much passion for the business, but can't even freshen up his in ring work. Chavo seems to have some kind of mentor type role with Cena, so it makes sense to me for Chavo to show him some tough love. For Cena to coast through is crapping on the guys that made him. Legends like Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, HBK, Undertaker, HHH and The Rock have worked with him to get him over. The least he can do is give it his best effort.

[Stickman]

I'd like to see a great John Cena match. Somebody post a video. I'll check back tomorrow because I know it will take you time to find it.

The match with HBK doesn't count as we all know HBK can have a good match with anybody.

[jskinnyg]

WOW... 1. I think Chavo is a badass... 2. Nicely posted Chavo... 3. Not a slam on Cena here but Nail = Hit head on that post...

[Stickman]

Does anybody think this will end up with Cena being a huge heel ala Hollywood Hogan?

This whole feud for some reason reminds me of Ric Flair showing up with the WCW belt proclaiming himself as The Real Heavyweight Champion.

[Kane Knight]

Chavo Guerrero basically said what most internet fans say about John Cena.

Which is exactly why people have his dick so far down their throats.

Err...I mean, Chavo is THE MAN!

[Anybody Thrilla]

I'd like to see a great John Cena match. Somebody post a video. I'll check back tomorrow because I know it will take you time to find it.

The match with HBK doesn't count as we all know HBK can have a good match with anybody.

Edge, Randy Orton, Umaga, Triple H, and The Miz (on Raw, not Wrestlemania) have all had great matches with Cena, and that's without me thinking too hard about it. Just saying.

[Anybody Thrilla]

This whole feud for some reason reminds me of Ric Flair showing up with the WCW belt proclaiming himself as The Real Heavyweight Champion.

Nobody would EVER emulate that. Especially not here at TPWW. :shifty:

[Juan]

Edge, Randy Orton, Umaga, Triple H, and The Miz (on Raw, not Wrestlemania) have all had great matches with Cena, and that's without me thinking too hard about it. Just saying.

Jack Swagger, CM Punk and Chris Jericho also

[Rock Bottom]

Which is exactly why people have his dick so far down their throats.

Sloshgargle blowjobs to every man who talks shit about John Cena.

And women.

[Rock Bottom]

But mostly the men.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I know that Chavo isn't wrong, but no matter what I hear from him, I can't help but sense an extreme bitterness. I kinda wish he would just shut the fuck up.

[whiteyford]

I'd like to see a great John Cena match. Somebody post a video. I'll check back tomorrow because I know it will take you time to find it.

The match with HBK doesn't count as we all know HBK can have a good match with anybody.

The match he had with Umaga, at the royal rumble a few years back, off the top of my head.

[Emperor Smeat]

He had a good match with Batista at Wrestlemania 26 and his promos leading up to the match were some of his best due to Batista also having some of his best promos at the time.

The problem is Cena for some reason goes back to his usual self after a great match or promo instead of improving and having another great match and promo in a row. Every great match he's had, the next ppv or match he tends to go back to normal instead of getting better.

[Kane Knight]

I know that Chavo isn't wrong, but no matter what I hear from him, I can't help but sense an extreme bitterness. I kinda wish he would just shut the fuck up.


To be fair, aren't all wrestlers not with WWE bitter, jealous, and so on?

[Mr. JL]

I know that Chavo isn't wrong, but no matter what I hear from him, I can't help but sense an extreme bitterness. I kinda wish he would just shut the fuck up.

BADA BING

[Kane Knight]

The match he had with Umaga, at the royal rumble a few years back, off the top of my head.

Cena was in it, ergo it sucks.

[Mr. JL]

Which is exactly why people have his dick so far down their throats.

Err...I mean, Chavo is THE MAN!

Thats better!

[Anybody Thrilla]

To be fair, aren't all wrestlers not with WWE bitter, jealous, and so on?

I have no interest in being fair. I feel like Chavo feels that the industry owes him something because of his last name, and frankly, he's unspectacular...unless he's dressed as Kerwin White, in which case he is amazing.

[XL]

O-oh. You used that word again AbT!

[chrisat928]

I love how people are acting like what Chavo said is the reason Cena 'stepped it up.'

[Mjdiesel]

The fucking guy who jobbed to Hornswoggle 4 times technically has no clout in insulting other wrestlers so fervently, at least out in public ....He just THINKS he does. It comes down to ego, and like someone prior has mentioned already--a sense of entitlement over his name.

[Rock Bottom]

So Chavo had more to say. And he has a point. That being said, Cena didn't only deliver, he put on the match of the year with Punk. The piece of shit can perform. He should be doing it more often.

And who gives a fuck if Chavo is bitter, or whatever his reasons may be for posting negatively. As long as what he says is accurate, I'm going to agree. Again it amazes me how much people react to what professional wrestlers think of professional wrestling.

[BigCrippyZ]

So Chavo had more to say. And he has a point. That being said, Cena didn't only deliver, he put on the match of the year with Punk. The piece of shit can perform. He should be doing it more often.

And who gives a fuck if Chavo is bitter, or whatever his reasons may be for posting negatively. As long as what he says is accurate, I'm going to agree. Again it amazes me how much people react to what professional wrestlers think of professional wrestling.

Agreed. I don't know what Chavo's reasons are for calling out Cena and I honestly don't care. Chavo's points were accurate and frankly, needed to be said. At least said by someone other than the smarks or the IWC.

Granted, I don't know if Cena performed better at MITB because of Chavo's comments, or if he was even aware of them. That said, it was good to see someone with actual wrestling experience call out the ridiculousness and boredom that had become a Cena match in recent years.

[Rock Bottom]

Oh that was definitely all Cena, Punk, and the creative force. No credit to Chavo for "lighting a fire under his ass" at all, I think to assume that would be ridiculous. And I agree, this match was an all-time great, and it's the best thing I've ever seen from John Cena.

He has a terrible terrible bulldog though. I mean, he wasn't crisp, didn't turn into a great wrestler but he performed his ass off. You don't need to be a great wrestler to be a great wrestler.

[tjmidnight420]

I mean, he wasn't crisp, didn't turn into a great wrestler but he performed his ass off..

Well worded. Easily the best thing I've ever seen from John Cena.

[Rock Bottom]

Some of u are asking me to eat my words. I’ll give credit where credit is due. Cena & Punk DELIVERED! But why should we be wondering if Cena will show up? He is the highest paid wrestler in the industry & the backbone of the WWE… He should deliver EVERY night! No question! We Never said this about Taker or Michaels. U knew they would deliver every time they stepped foot in the ring. There was never a lazy Accusation with those 2. So what u should be saying is. It’s about time Cena gave the fans there moneys worth!

I’m very happy for Punk…If he’s resigning or not, he deserves it.Nobody has lot a fire in the WWE like that since Austin and I guarantee Cena makes 3-4 times if notMore than Punk. If u make that much, u should deliver every night, no if, ands, or buts! But that’s just me, weather I was making Mysterio Quit or putting over a little person, I gave it my all every night. Not for the money but cuz I have pride in my work and I respect this biz & the fans cuz they are what matters.

There’s always some1 seeing u for the first time & for the last time every night! That’s how every Wrestler should view this biz. Nit as a stepping stone to Hollywood but as way to deliver to the ppl who pay there hard earned money to Watch them every night!!!

Viva La Raza mother f’rs! :) just playing.. Dint hate!

From front page, in case anyone is too lazy to look.

[Kane Knight]

I have no interest in being fair. I feel like Chavo feels that the industry owes him something because of his last name, and frankly, he's unspectacular...unless he's dressed as Kerwin White, in which case he is amazing.

Except for the Kerwin White bit, isn't that true of all wrestlers who aren't with WWE?

[Kane Knight]

From front page, in case anyone is too lazy to look.

The big problem there, is Cena DOES give the fans their money's worth. That's why people keep paying specifically to see him. It's not what Chavo or the smarks seem to think they want, but it does seem to be what the fans want. Cena moves merch and sells tickets. He is asses in the seats, something that cannot be said for most wrestlers.

And if the fans aren't getting their money's worth, I'll say this: Stop rewarding a shit product. You're your own problem.

But the thing is, the people who actually pay money seem to be satisfied with the product. The people whining seem to generally be on the outside of things...Ironic, since Chavo's a wrestler, but not entirely false. You would think that a guy who spent years in WWE and decades in American wrestling period would understand Sports Entertainment.

But then, did people seriously ever doubt Punk/Cena? Seems to me, the IWC would have fapped if they had a thumb wrestling contest. All the while they would praise Punk's psychology and complain that Cena only used the same four moves because memes=reality and hypocrisy = integrity.

The bulk of paying fans were going to get what they wanted: Cena. The smarks were going to get what they wanted: Punk. WWE was going to get what they wanted: Money. It was win-win-win from the get-go.

Again, a lot of these people complaining are the same folkks who, only about an Era ago, would eat up the Rock's "Four moves of Doom."

No offense, Rock Bottom.

[Rock Bottom]

Nah, I don't take offense, although I do think the doom set isn't enough of a parallel between Cena and Rock relative to Chavo's comments, although there are others.

In short, I marked out for Rock because he was a better performer, and delivered more often.

[captaincharismark]

He had a good match with Batista at Wrestlemania 26 and his promos leading up to the match were some of his best due to Batista also having some of his best promos at the time.

The problem is Cena for some reason goes back to his usual self after a great match or promo instead of improving and having another great match and promo in a row. Every great match he's had, the next ppv or match he tends to go back to normal instead of getting better.

Most of that was Batista carrying Cena. The match was good, but Batista delivered in a big way considering it was his final fued in WWE. All the attacks by Batista on Cena and his promos before were awesome. And that powerbomb on the steel steps still makes me mark out.

The problem with Cena is he hasn't evolved any since 2005. Chavo was only pointing out the obvious. I can definately see where Chavo was coming from, since Cena has been on cruise control. To some, it may appear to be bitterness, but Chavo was only saying what everyone else was thinking. I guess Punk being brutally honest is catching on...

[Fox]

Rock had four moves of doom?

Anyways, Rock's matches never got nearly as formulaic and redundant as Cena's matches have become over the past few years. Cena's four moves of doom comeback was getting up there with the "Hulking Up" comeback in terms of ridiculous finishes.

[captaincharismark]

Rock had four moves of doom?

Anyways, Rock's matches never got nearly as formulaic and redundant as Cena's matches have become over the past few years. Cena's four moves of doom comeback was getting up there with the "Hulking Up" comeback in terms of ridiculous finishes.

You just accurately described Cena. He's a new version of Hulk Hogan. He relies on the same tired routine and never adds a move or breaks the sequence of them. The sad part is he can be a good wrestler when he is motivated. Instead he'd rather be a bad wrestler with above average mic skills. Chavo hit the nail on the head when he called Cena out for being lazy. I wonder how many wrestlers wish they could blast Cena too for making the whole company look bad. Especially when the chance of doing something special with CM Punk comes along...

[Mjdiesel]

So Chavo had more to say. And he has a point. That being said, Cena didn't only deliver, he put on the match of the year with Punk. The piece of shit can perform. He should be doing it more often.

And who gives a fuck if Chavo is bitter, or whatever his reasons may be for posting negatively. As long as what he says is accurate, I'm going to agree. Again it amazes me how much people react to what professional wrestlers think of professional wrestling.

I hear what you're saying, but the reasons why people get so up in arms over what wrestlers think about wrestling is because alot of times they play right into fans hands.

For instance, the means of making random comments (Twitter) and the timing of it WREAKS so fucking bad of 'agenda', I can't even pour enough Luv My Carpet over it to cover up the stench.

That alone is just human nature. Everyone knows that this particular form of show business is one of the most physically grueling there is, unexempt from the everso atypical backstabbing, showboating favoritism and politics that abound in just most entertainment mediums.

When a person who just gets out of WWE, goes out of his way to take a hearty shit on a love him/hate him top performer IN the business, human nature's going to go, 9 times out of 10, "what's this guy's deal?". Or it could cause some fans to grin, most of whom was never crazy about John Cena to begin with.

And because Chavo has his share of fans and comes from a "name" in the industry, coupled with the ambiguousness of Cena's perception as a whole, kayfabe or not, why wouldn't it be discussed?

Hell, this website alone crows everytime a talent takes a cheap shot at another wrestler or company personality via Shitter. Sorry, Twitter.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I find it difficult to take Chavo seriously because it seems to me that he feels that if he were given the opportunity, he could make more money than John Cena. He's delusional. Yes, he comes from a great wrestling family and he can put on a good match, but the man has no star power whatsoever.

Eddie did, but he doesn't. That's not enough to make anyone care about him, unfortunately.

There are some new comments from Chavo on the front page right now about how he thinks it should have been him in Rey's place after Eddie's death. This dude's grapes are beyond sour, and I'm sick of him. Even if what he's saying is completely correct, I can't say that I give a fuck about his opinion.

[captaincharismark]

I find it difficult to take Chavo seriously because it seems to me that he feels that if he were given the opportunity, he could make more money than John Cena. He's delusional. Yes, he comes from a great wrestling family and he can put on a good match, but the man has no star power whatsoever.

I think saying he has no star power whatsoever is wrong. Clearly the fans do care about Chavo, or else this topic wouldn't exist. While he may be delusional thinking he could be a bigger star than Cena, he definately could outperform him. And whether it comes off as being bitter or not, he's telling the truth. Nothing us fans haven't been saying for years now.

Eddie did, but he doesn't. That's not enough to make anyone care about him, unfortunately.

I'm sure once upon a time, ppl thought Eddie didn't have any star power. In WCW, Eddie was perceived as a "vanilla midget" who would never draw. It's all about how you push someone. If you push someone as a joke for so long, it tends to overshadow any talent you have. The fans must care, b/c they got behind Chavo every chance they got. WWE royally screwed up using him, which is their loss.

There are some new comments from Chavo on the front page right now about how he thinks it should have been him in Rey's place after Eddie's death. This dude's grapes are beyond sour, and I'm sick of him. Even if what he's saying is completely correct, I can't say that I give a fuck about his opinion.

I know it comes across as sour grapes, but put yourself in Chavo's shoes. He had a good match with HHH that was over huge, then was never used again. Mysterio was used as a Eddie replacement, so I can understand Chavo's frustration. He was just as talented as Mysterio, but WWE chose to use Mysterio instead. He pretty much had been in WWE for 10 years, with no opportunities whatsoever. So, to say he's sour would be like saying anyone who told the truth is sour. CM Punk has done the same as Chavo, only on TV, but isn't perceived as a sour person. He's simply being brutally honest, and most ppl don't wanna hear it. Especially when it comes to calling out WWE for it's mistakes...

[Anybody Thrilla]

I honestly have no recollection of this Chavo/HHH match. Was it over because of Chavo? Or was it over because Eddie had just died?

[Anybody Thrilla]

On Eddie’s Passing: “I always thought the WWE really dropped the ball after Eddie passed. I always thought the WWE didn’t really want to cash in on Eddie’s death. But I remember wrestling Triple H and the fans really went crazy for it. But they went with Rey for WrestleMania 22. And I went into Vince’s office and told him that could be me. The fans could really get behind me. And instead that went into me turning heel and having a great program with Rey”

That makes it sound like HE wanted to capitalize off Eddie's death and not Rey.

[captaincharismark]

I honestly have no recollection of this Chavo/HHH match. Was it over because of Chavo? Or was it over because Eddie had just died?

Oh, you mean like Rey Mysterio's whole WHC push during that period??? WWE never would've used Mysterio otherwise. Chavo was over for the same reason Mysterio was, and that was sympathy. He certainly did as well in the ME as Mysterio...

[Anybody Thrilla]

Mysterio was definitely more over than Chavo when Eddie was still alive.

[captaincharismark]

Mysterio was definitely more over than Chavo when Eddie was still alive.

Only b/c WWE put Mysterio in better fueds. Chavo's got more depth than Mysterio. Mysterio's been the same character for 10 years. He never evolves or can even pull off a successful heel run. Easy to be the underdog when you're the smallest guy on the WWE roster(well, other than Hornswaggle). If not for Mysterio capitalizing on Eddie's death, he'd still be stuck in the mid card or still in the cruiserweight division.

Mysterio only gets the reaction he does b/c he's marketed to kids and the younger demographic. I'd say most fans over 18 are tired of seeing Mysterio do the same boring stuff every week...

[chrisat928]

Why is that Chavo was only entertaining when he was hanging around Eddie then?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Only b/c WWE put Mysterio in better fueds. Chavo's got more depth than Mysterio. Mysterio's been the same character for 10 years. He never evolves or can even pull off a successful heel run. Easy to be the underdog when you're the smallest guy on the WWE roster(well, other than Hornswaggle). If not for Mysterio capitalizing on Eddie's death, he'd still be stuck in the mid card or still in the cruiserweight division.

Mysterio only gets the reaction he does b/c he's marketed to kids and the younger demographic. I'd say most fans over 18 are tired of seeing Mysterio do the same boring stuff every week...

Mysterio has been in some fantastic matches during his WWE tenure. As some people were discussing the other day, I can't even remember the last time I've seen a bad Mysterio match. Also, you can't say he can't be a successful heel if you've never even seen it attempted. The Filthy Animals were hardly heels before you bring that up.

The fact is that Mysterio DOES get a reaction, though. Why he does is irrelevant. He's a great in-ring performer, and he was definitely more over than Chavo at the time of his WHC push. He was a much better choice. The build up to it was great. The actual run itself was crap, but that was just the way it was booked, and really no fault of Rey's.

Now, I've seen a ton of Rey Mysterio matches and a pretty decent amount of Chavo Guerrero matches, and I can say with full confidence that Rey has always been more entertaining in the ring. I don't know what secret Chavo matches you've been attended where he's torn the house down, but I'd be willing to give it a go. The best I've ever seen Chavo was when he was teaming with Eddie, playing a pretty clear second fiddle.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I think the one thing that really chaps my ass about Chavo's original comments towards Cena is when he said that getting over is easy. It's not. He hardly even knows about being over.

[captaincharismark]

Mysterio has been in some fantastic matches during his WWE tenure. As some people were discussing the other day, I can't even remember the last time I've seen a bad Mysterio match. Also, you can't say he can't be a successful heel if you've never even seen it attempted. The Filthy Animals were hardly heels before you bring that up.

The fact is that Mysterio DOES get a reaction, though. Why he does is irrelevant. He's a great in-ring performer, and he was definitely more over than Chavo at the time of his WHC push. He was a much better choice. The build up to it was great. The actual run itself was crap, but that was just the way it was booked, and really no fault of Rey's.

Now, I've seen a ton of Rey Mysterio matches and a pretty decent amount of Chavo Guerrero matches, and I can say with full confidence that Rey has always been more entertaining in the ring. I don't know what secret Chavo matches you've been attended where he's torn the house down, but I'd be willing to give it a go. The best I've ever seen Chavo was when he was teaming with Eddie, playing a pretty clear second fiddle.

I never said Mysterio was a bad in ring worker. I said he was a one dimensional character, which he is. He can't pull off a successful heel turn b/c he has no character. During his WHC push, he was over as much mainly due to Eddie's passing. Not really Rey's fault, but he wasn't even being considered for the ME until Eddie died.

As far as Chavo's in ring work, I'll admit it isn't as good. But, what do you expect from a guy in the low to mid card??? He can't "tear down the house" if he isn't given the in ring time to do it. I'm confident from his work I've seen in WCW and WWE, if he were in Rey's spot, he could do just as well. Hell, back when they were fueding Chavo held up his side really well. I'd dare to say he made the fued as much as Rey did. Unfortunately, we've only got to see rare glimpes of it.

As far as playing "second fiddle" to Eddie, he did well IMO. Them playing off of each other is what made the tag team work. So, to at least keep up with Eddie is an accomplishment in my book. He's done well with what WWE gave him to work with, which wasn't very much. There's a reason he survived in WWE for 10 years, and it wasn't b/c he sucked...

[Anybody Thrilla]

I never said Chavo sucked either. I just don't think he has the star power to become a John Cena or somebody like that. I don't have a problem watching a Chavo match, but I think I'd be pretty underwhelmed with him anywhere above the middle of the card. I think he had some delusions of grandeur.

[McLegend]

I think people have to get over the fact that Cena just isn't that good of a wrestler. He's very good to great at everything else. It's not like he's a terrible wrestler either. He's not a stiff he can move around, and if you put with someone who is good, and in the right situation ala Sunday Night everything is going to work out.

And it's fairly obvious that Cena is anything, but lazy.

[captaincharismark]

I never said Chavo sucked either. I just don't think he has the star power to become a John Cena or somebody like that. I don't have a problem watching a Chavo match, but I think I'd be pretty underwhelmed with him anywhere above the middle of the card. I think he had some delusions of grandeur.

I think by any means it's a flawed comparison. You can't really say for sure if Chavo could be a top star, since he was never in the ME. I think his time away from WWE will be telling if he can or can't be a major player. His in ring work in WWE was limited severely, so it'll be interesting to see the kind of matches he could have in TNA. Based on what I have seen over the years, I think he's as good a wrestler as anyone on top. Is he as big as Cena now? No way, but if he can improve and adapt in TNA and prove his WWE critics wrong, I'm sure he'll be in WWE again.

You can tell Chavo's bitter to a degree, but ultimately I think he wants the wrestling industry to reach it's potential. If that means calling Cena lazy in order to motivate him to improve in the ring, then so be it. Pretty much his comments have been fair and accurate about Cena. Sometimes having constructive critisizm is good for the top guys. It makes sure they do what's best for wrestling, which should matter more than "entertainment"...

[Anybody Thrilla]

I think he more wants Chavo Guerrero to reach his potential, and unfortunately for him, I think he's already done that. Poor Chavito.

[Anybody Thrilla]

As far as his ring work being limited in WWE, so is everyone else's. Cena's too. I know I've enjoyed more Mysterio matches than Chavo matches, and now that I think about it, the same goes for Cena matches.

[captaincharismark]

I think he more wants Chavo Guerrero to reach his potential, and unfortunately for him, I think he's already done that. Poor Chavito.

Unfortunately, since WWE didn't use him properly(as they did with several ECW, WCW and TNA guys), we can't say that for sure. It will be interesting to watch now that he can wrestle without as much limitation, to see if he can break through. To say he's reached his full potential would be like saying you have to make it in WWE to be successful. I'm sure plenty of ECW, WCW and TNA guys that flopped in WWE due to misuse would disagree...

[Anybody Thrilla]

In today's wrestling climate, I would say that you have to make it in WWE to be successful. It's the top game in town. He can be the TNA champion, and precisely no one will give a shit.

[tjmidnight420]

In today's wrestling climate, I would say that you have to make it in WWE to be successful. It's the top game in town. He can be the TNA champion, and precisely no one will give a shit.

Sadly that's the whole truth right there. TNA champion is about the same as WWECW champion was.

[captaincharismark]

In today's wrestling climate, I would say that you have to make it in WWE to be successful. It's the top game in town. He can be the TNA champion, and precisely no one will give a shit.

That, unfortunately, is how most wrestling fans feel. You can't be a talented guy that's wrestling in a foreign country or TNA and be considered a top star. I personally think you can be in any wrestling company and still be a major star. If you are talented enough and get noticed, being offered a deal from WWE is inevitable.

I bet if Chavo were to become TNA Champion and was a breakout star, WWE would be wanting him back ASAP...

[Anybody Thrilla]

Then let's revisit this when that happens (read: never).

[captaincharismark]

Then let's revisit this when that happens (read: never).


According to that narrow minded kind of thinking, I guess all the wrestlers that don't make it in WWE suck??? That's a long ass list of former ECW, WCW and TNA wrestlers that WWE didn't think belonged on top either. Just being top dog in WWE doesn't make you great. Case and point:John Cena:n:

[Anybody Thrilla]

Chavo Guerrero is not a major player, OK? He's just not. That's what I'm trying to say to you right here and now.

[Anybody Thrilla]

How many of those wrestlers had open tweets telling Cena to man up? How many of those wrestlers think they are owed something because of their family?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Also, I think John Cena IS great. He can be lazy, but when he wants to be, he is great. He has shown it plenty of times, and I don't like that he's become the scapegoat for all of wrestling's problems. Lazy booking is what got us to the point we're at now with him, but the more I think about it, if Cena didn't have that superhuman run that he had for so long, things like this CM Punk angle would never have worked.

[Shisen Kopf]

I thought the Kerwin White gimmick was racist. Terrible stereotyping like that.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Racist, yet the most interesting he's ever been. Playing a racist CHARACTER is OK...right, Shisen?

[Shisen Kopf]

He more over in dubya sea dubya with pepe

[Anybody Thrilla]

I enjoyed him very much with the Pepe gimmick, but I still knew that he wasn't a major player back then. If it were going to happen at all, it would have happened by now.

[Shisen Kopf]

Also, I hope you ain't implying that I'm a racist character. My third favorite chick on saved by the bell was Lisa Turtle.

[captaincharismark]

Also, I think John Cena IS great. He can be lazy, but when he wants to be, he is great. He has shown it plenty of times, and I don't like that he's become the scapegoat for all of wrestling's problems. Lazy booking is what got us to the point we're at now with him, but the more I think about it, if Cena didn't have that superhuman run that he had for so long, things like this CM Punk angle would never have worked.

Cena has shown flashes of brilliance in the past, but tends to get lazy too often. I do agree to a large extent that lazy booking can be blamed as much as Cena for how he looks on TV. He has had decent matches with CM Punk, HBK and Batista in the past. Then, turn around and do the same tired routine the next night and go through the motions. So, he isn't consistent, and that is why I think most have issues with Cena...

[Anybody Thrilla]

You have to wonder how much of that routine is his idea and how much he is told to do that, though.

[captaincharismark]

Chavo Guerrero is not a major player, OK? He's just not. That's what I'm trying to say to you right here and now.

Is he a major player now??? No, but to say he'll never be one is a very bold statement. And to claim his matches aren't as good as Cena's is laughable. Even limited, Chavo has had more quality work than Cena. Most all of Chavo's work on SD in the cruiserweight division was better than any Cena match. At least he occasionally does more than 4 shoulder blocks, Five Knuckle Shuffle, FU and STFU. Cena's routine and being considered a great worker is I think why most fans hate Cena. It's insulting to us fans to even suggest he's great. A great mic worker/entertainer? Maybe, but as far as wrestling goes, he has alot of room for improvement...

[captaincharismark]

You have to wonder how much of that routine is his idea and how much he is told to do that, though.

I think for the most part, they are given a time limit to work with and allowed to call it in the ring. If that theory is correct, then Cena himself would be to blame. If WWE tells him to do it, then they need to rethink their strategy(of course, that would be assuming they care). Then again, it's all entertainment now and not wrestling. If ever there was a statement that was fraudulent and misleading...

[Anybody Thrilla]

He is capable of being in great wrestling matches. Maybe he's not a technical wizard, but he's completely competent. He's just more of a 'brawler'. That doesn't make him worse than Chavo.

And I think that saying that Chavo WILL become a major player at this point in his career is a MUCH more bold statement, considering you're basing it on nothing at all. I'm at least taking the past into consideration.

[captaincharismark]

He is capable of being in great wrestling matches. Maybe he's not a technical wizard, but he's completely competent. He's just more of a 'brawler'. That doesn't make him worse than Chavo.

Nothing wrong with being a brawler. Stone Cold Steve Austin was a brawler his whole WWF/E career, but always had great matches. The difference being Austin could adapt and be technical when it was needed. Or he could adapt to his opponent's style and make the match work. Cena has had very good matches, but not great. Until he can adapt more and change his stale routine, I don't think we'll ever see a 5 star classic from him. Chavo may use routines, as all wrestlers do, but occasionally you see more from him than the usual. The difference being he can do more than what he is limited to...

And I think that saying that Chavo WILL become a major player at this point in his career is a MUCH more bold statement, considering you're basing it on nothing at all. I'm at least taking the past into consideration.

No, I'm basing my opinion on his work. All his work in WCW and WWE. His in ring work is as good as any top guy in WWE. Interesting that earlier we compared him to Mysterio. B/c when both were in the cruiserweight division, in either WCW or WWE, both had tremendous matches. In WWE, they had a great fued, showing he can be as good as Mysterio or anyone else.

I'm not attempting to change your mind, as clearly you think he's a bitter has been. I disagree though, and think if he's pushed properly, he can be as good on top as anyone. There's a huge difference in saying he could be a major player one day and he will be though...

[Anybody Thrilla]

Well give me credit for this prediction in the future:

Chavo Guerrero will never be a major player.

[Malfeitor]

Eddie Guerrero is my favorite wrestler.

[tjmidnight420]

Nothing wrong with being a brawler. Stone Cold Steve Austin was a brawler his whole WWF/E career, but always had great matches. The difference being Austin could adapt and be technical when it was needed. Or he could adapt to his opponent's style and make the match work. Cena has had very good matches, but not great. Until he can adapt more and change his stale routine, I don't think we'll ever see a 5 star classic from him. Chavo may use routines, as all wrestlers do, but occasionally you see more from him than the usual. The difference being he can do more than what he is limited to...



No, I'm basing my opinion on his work. All his work in WCW and WWE. His in ring work is as good as any top guy in WWE. Interesting that earlier we compared him to Mysterio. B/c when both were in the cruiserweight division, in either WCW or WWE, both had tremendous matches. In WWE, they had a great fued, showing he can be as good as Mysterio or anyone else.

I'm not attempting to change your mind, as clearly you think he's a bitter has been. I disagree though, and think if he's pushed properly, he can be as good on top as anyone. There's a huge difference in saying he could be a major player one day and he will be though...

You're only looking at your opinion again. John Cena is NOT limited to what we see him do every time he wrestles. You only think he is because that's all he's been doing for so long. Lazy in the ring? I'd say so. Limited in the ring? I think not. He and CM Punk had a very AMAZING and very much different match. Also: Chavo IS a bitter has been. Otherwise he'd be out proving he's better than John Cena instead of bitching about him. Chavo is past his prime and past the peak of his career. Unless he's Hulk Hogan, his wrestling days are pretty much numbered.

[chrisat928]

People do know that Chavo is over 40, right?

His time is long gone, and again, he was only entertaining when Eddie was involved.

[captaincharismark]

You're only looking at your opinion again. John Cena is NOT limited to what we see him do every time he wrestles. You only think he is because that's all he's been doing for so long. Lazy in the ring? I'd say so. Limited in the ring? I think not. He and CM Punk had a very AMAZING and very much different match. Also: Chavo IS a bitter has been. Otherwise he'd be out proving he's better than John Cena instead of bitching about him. Chavo is past his prime and past the peak of his career. Unless he's Hulk Hogan, his wrestling days are pretty much numbered.

Quite the opposite, I'm looking at all the opinions here. And much like everyone else, I state my views on topics. At least I don't state my opinion as fact, which alot of ppl here tend to do. I really could care less if I'm right or wrong. Either way, I post what I think about wrestling. Don't really have to agree in order to be objective...

Although Cena may not be limited in the ring, he sure takes the easy way out in most instances. I said it before and I'll say it again, he shows flashes of brilliance. His match with Punk and his one hour long match with HBK prove he can be great. The problem is, he doesn't perform consistently. So, I'd say Chavo saying he's lazy is fair and accurate.

I personally don't think it's all Chavo being bitter. Sure, it is to an extent, but for the most part he told the truth about Cena. Nothing fans or even most wrestlers haven't said in the past. I do agree Chavo is pretty much past his prime, but he can still contribute to whatever wrestling organization he is in. Unlike Hogan, who's past his prime and can't contribute in a signifigant way. I also agree he isn't a major player, but he can be IMO if he's given the cnance...