Are we Entering a New Era?

[Loose Cannon]

Well the last month or so in the WWE has been very cool and exciting to say the least. Lots of stuff happening, which a year ago, I would of never thought happening. It seems like the WWE is starting to realize how to make good TV again. They've created new stars the past year or two, which they failed to do between 2001-2003, and it hurt them. And now we're starting to see the effort of creating stars with how over Batista and especially Cena are. Of course, Orton, Hassan, Shelton, Carlito and a few more are there.

But what I really wanted to talk about was what seemed to be started by the ECW PPV. This new "shoot" style TV/Internet WWE we are seeing lately. From the shoot promos at the ECW PPV, to the BWO appearing on Smackdown (Meanie vs JBL), to the Lesnar stuff, to all these releases, which were presented like they were some kind of event on WWE.com. To the little things like that of Richards attacking Masters on Raw after few knew Richards was even injured by him. And of course, the biggest thing, Matt Hardy/Edge/Lita.

This past couple of months has just felt a lot different. A definate change for the better IMO. As I said before, last night with Matt was just so surreal. Something that you don't really see anymore these days in the WWE. Real Crowd emotion and just hearing however many people chant "Hardy" as loud as they could brought me back to 98 with Austin. It really felt like that last night.

I just hope they continue this "New WWE" so to speak. Keep running this "reality" kind of thing they are doing right now. It's something new and it's something fun.

[Jaton]

I agree. Hopefully they can build even bigger stars. I'm always looking forward to the next Rock or Stone Cold.

[RemyRed]

Yeah this could be the Internet Era of the WWE. Definately liking it so far.

[M. Banana]

Sure.

And I'm loving it.

[vampiro03]

I love the fact wwe is controlling the internet now. that kicks serious ass. I've always said "the fans know too much". The wwe used the internet aginst us! YEEESSS!

[Volchok]

I think its been awesome.. I seriously cannot wait to see what happens next.

[Loose Cannon]

just to make things clear, when I say "shoot," I'm talking about shoot in terms of WWE style. Basically it comes off real to the casual fans and to the smarks, but everything was probably fed to Vince beforehand and he gave the final approval. So with Heyman and RVD, yea they were "shoots" so to speak, but not true "shoots" like those interviews you see out there on RF Video or something.

[vampiro03]

just to make things clear, when I say "shoot," I'm talking about shoot in terms of WWE style. Basically it comes off real to the casual fans and to the smarks, but everything was probably fed to Vince beforehand and he gave the final approval. So with Heyman and RVD, yea they were "shoots" so to speak, but not true "shoots" like those interviews you see out there on RF Video or something.

heyman is the workshoot MASTER. nobody comes close to his realness. "You stole my life" was one of the best workshoots ever.

[Deceit]

I have to agree.

I'm loving how they're actually using the internet to benefit some storylines and interest more people. It makes complete sense to start using something that is pretty much the epicenter of communication and media.

[Cactus Jack]

I hope not...I do like the way they made the One night Stand PPV that's the only good thing they did. They made Batista Champ and they kind of took away Evolution which is good because they were getting boreing. Alot of stuff they did the past year pissed me off, the idea of killing off Percy(paul barrer) that sucked. And then after that he left and then I read a month or so ago he sighned a new deal with WWE so that's cool, getting rid of Matt Hardy could have been their best move if I do say so my self. I hated Matt anyway Getting rid of Jeff though was one of their bigger mistakes. Because he's doing great over at TNA evan though I heard he was suspended a couple of months ago. Cena is the biggest joke and biggest fucking retard I've seen and the worse gimmick I've seen, a wannabe Black wrestler...That's when I knew Vince forgot who he was it pissed me off. One of the big reasons I hate WWE today I mean I'm a huge wrestling fan and all but a wrestler like that should'nt evan exsist. I can go on and on about how bad wrestling has got over the past year in WWE but I really don't need to because alot of you wont agree with me anyway. so why evan try?...Well that's all I need to say for now.

[vampiro03]

I hope not...I do like the way they made the One night Stand PPV that's the only good thing they did. They made Batista Champ and they kind of took away Evolution which is good because they were getting boreing. Alot of stuff they did the past year pissed me off, the idea of killing off Percy(paul barrer) that sucked. And then after that he left and then I read a month or so ago he sighned a new deal with WWE so that's cool, getting rid of Matt Hardy could have been their best move if I do say so my self. I hated Matt anyway Getting rid of Jeff though was one of their bigger mistakes. Because he's doing great over at TNA evan though I heard he was suspended a couple of months ago. Cena is the biggest joke and biggest fucking retard I've seen and the worse gimmick I've seen, a wannabe Black wrestler...That's when I knew Vince forgot who he was it pissed me off. One of the big reasons I hate WWE today I mean I'm a huge wrestling fan and all but a wrestler like that should'nt evan exsist. I can go on and on about how bad wrestling has got over the past year in WWE but I really don't need to because alot of you wont agree with me anyway. so why evan try?...Well that's all I need to say for now.

WHY do you watch wrestling?

[Kane Knight]

Probably are...

[M. Banana]

Cena is the biggest joke and biggest fucking retard I've seen and the worse gimmick I've seen, a wannabe Black wrestler..

Okay, you.. shut up, now.

[Impact!]

I hope not...I do like the way they made the One night Stand PPV that's the only good thing they did. They made Batista Champ and they kind of took away Evolution which is good because they were getting boreing. Alot of stuff they did the past year pissed me off, the idea of killing off Percy(paul barrer) that sucked. And then after that he left and then I read a month or so ago he sighned a new deal with WWE so that's cool, getting rid of Matt Hardy could have been their best move if I do say so my self. I hated Matt anyway Getting rid of Jeff though was one of their bigger mistakes. Because he's doing great over at TNA evan though I heard he was suspended a couple of months ago. Cena is the biggest joke and biggest fucking retard I've seen and the worse gimmick I've seen, a wannabe Black wrestler...That's when I knew Vince forgot who he was it pissed me off. One of the big reasons I hate WWE today I mean I'm a huge wrestling fan and all but a wrestler like that should'nt evan exsist. I can go on and on about how bad wrestling has got over the past year in WWE but I really don't need to because alot of you wont agree with me anyway. so why evan try?...Well that's all I need to say for now.

Riiiiiight. Dude who do u like, and just for some fun where would you like to see the WWE go direction wise.

[KingofOldSchool]

I hope not...I do like the way they made the One night Stand PPV that's the only good thing they did. They made Batista Champ and they kind of took away Evolution which is good because they were getting boreing. Alot of stuff they did the past year pissed me off, the idea of killing off Percy(paul barrer) that sucked. And then after that he left and then I read a month or so ago he sighned a new deal with WWE so that's cool, getting rid of Matt Hardy could have been their best move if I do say so my self. I hated Matt anyway Getting rid of Jeff though was one of their bigger mistakes. Because he's doing great over at TNA evan though I heard he was suspended a couple of months ago. Cena is the biggest joke and biggest fucking retard I've seen and the worse gimmick I've seen, a wannabe Black wrestler...That's when I knew Vince forgot who he was it pissed me off. One of the big reasons I hate WWE today I mean I'm a huge wrestling fan and all but a wrestler like that should'nt evan exsist. I can go on and on about how bad wrestling has got over the past year in WWE but I really don't need to because alot of you wont agree with me anyway. so why evan try?...Well that's all I need to say for now.

Your post makes Mick Foley cry.

[PureHatred]

I hope not...I do like the way they made the One night Stand PPV that's the only good thing they did. They made Batista Champ and they kind of took away Evolution which is good because they were getting boreing. Alot of stuff they did the past year pissed me off, the idea of killing off Percy(paul barrer) that sucked. And then after that he left and then I read a month or so ago he sighned a new deal with WWE so that's cool, getting rid of Matt Hardy could have been their best move if I do say so my self. I hated Matt anyway Getting rid of Jeff though was one of their bigger mistakes. Because he's doing great over at TNA evan though I heard he was suspended a couple of months ago. Cena is the biggest joke and biggest fucking retard I've seen and the worse gimmick I've seen, a wannabe Black wrestler...That's when I knew Vince forgot who he was it pissed me off. One of the big reasons I hate WWE today I mean I'm a huge wrestling fan and all but a wrestler like that should'nt evan exsist. I can go on and on about how bad wrestling has got over the past year in WWE but I really don't need to because alot of you wont agree with me anyway. so why evan try?...Well that's all I need to say for now.


See..this is why I called you a fucking retard.

I'm tired, but eventually I will take the time to cut this post to shreds. I'll probably insult Jeff hardy, so Shadow, avert your eyes.

Also, this is more proof that my "Even the Reatards Have Computers" thread was right on the money. I may turn that entire theory into a reality series.

Also, to those who have insulted the newbie, watch out, he may use some sort of racial epitaph that he may or may not understand quite what it means.

That is all.

[TerranRich]

I hope not...I do like the way they made the One night Stand PPV that's the only good thing they did. They made Batista Champ and they kind of took away Evolution which is good because they were getting boreing. Alot of stuff they did the past year pissed me off, the idea of killing off Percy(paul barrer) that sucked. And then after that he left and then I read a month or so ago he sighned a new deal with WWE so that's cool, getting rid of Matt Hardy could have been their best move if I do say so my self. I hated Matt anyway Getting rid of Jeff though was one of their bigger mistakes. Because he's doing great over at TNA evan though I heard he was suspended a couple of months ago. Cena is the biggest joke and biggest fucking retard I've seen and the worse gimmick I've seen, a wannabe Black wrestler...That's when I knew Vince forgot who he was it pissed me off. One of the big reasons I hate WWE today I mean I'm a huge wrestling fan and all but a wrestler like that should'nt evan exsist. I can go on and on about how bad wrestling has got over the past year in WWE but I really don't need to because alot of you wont agree with me anyway. so why evan try?...Well that's all I need to say for now.
Retard. ^^^

[TerranRich]

See..this is why I called you a fucking retard.

I'm tired, but eventually I will take the time to cut this post to shreds. I'll probably insult Jeff hardy, so Shadow, avert your eyes.

Also, this is more proof that my "Even the Reatards Have Computers" thread was right on the money. I may turn that entire theory into a reality series.

Also, to those who have insulted the newbie, watch out, he may use some sort of racial epitaph that he may or may not understand quite what it means.

That is all.
You fucking Hebe.

[PureHatred]

As to the topic: yep, it looks like the WWE has decided that instead of trying to fight the Net, they are going to bend it to their will. If they control the information, then they control the minds of the wrestling fans.

Genius.

It was probably Pul E's idea and Trips is taking credit for it.

[Kane Knight]

As to the topic: yep, it looks like the WWE has decided that instead of trying to fight the Net, they are going to bend it to their will. If they control the information, then they control the minds of the wrestling fans.

Genius.

It was probably Pul E's idea and Trips is taking credit for it.
To be fair, it was Rupert Murdoch's idea.

[PullMyFinger]

I'm loving this new era. Indeed, wrestling has become so interesting as of late. It seems like wrestlings boom era have always come from capitalizing on its problems. Case: back then SCSA was getting cheered when he was a heel...WWE said fuck it, run with it. The Rock was booed as a face, so they said..let him run with being this asshole. Now, the WWE has been complaining about the net ruining the business...but as of late, they're running with it.

If only there was another wrestling promotion on Monday Nights as well....it would be even crazier.

[Fox]

WWE has been awesome since Triple H is on vacation.

There, I said it.

[Morgan]

Cena is the biggest joke and biggest fucking retard I've seen and the worse gimmick I've seen, a wannabe Black wrestler.

Worse than a guy pretending to be mentally handicapped?

Worse than a baby killer/foot fetishist?

Worse than a fitness instructor?

Worse than a "Zombie"?

You haven't seen a lot of gimmicks have you?

[Morgan]

WWE has been awesome since Triple H is on vacation.

There, I said it.

(covers ears) "lalalalalala not listening!, didn't here anyone say that!"

[NoRoolz]

Yeah this past month or so I've been eagerly awaiting RAW and SmackDown! which hasn't really happened since about the year 2000 or 2001. We have new stars being built, as well as old ones still being in the world title picture, we have heaps of young talent coming through and WWE has become unpredictable again (to an extent).

I see us in about 1996, where wrestling is entertaining and crazy, but this is the period when they're preparing their stars. Now we have Orton, Cena, Shelton, Carlito, Christian, Lesnar?, Maybe even Dupree who we could see main-eventing in 2 years or so. In 1996 you had HHH, Rock, Mankind and Austin all being built-up, and they were the guys (as well as Kane and 'Taker) who headlined the first few years of the Attitude era, which was a mega boom-period.

If all goes well, in 2 years there could be another boom-period, with the guys I mentioned (as well as other people) main-eventing.

As for the internet usage, I think that's a great idea. For as PH says: Even retards have computers, this is backed-up by Cactus Jack. And us smarks who have been coming on the internet to check-out rumors and news for years, know that these rumors/news are genuine, and know we can't be sure if what we're reading is true. Or just an invention from the WWE, this wil benefit us smarks, for we all love when something happens in WWE that we didn't predict, which these days is rare. So now we could be seeing more of the surprise factor, which is great :y:. Also to the marks, even in 2 years time when we've fully figured out how the WWE uses the internet to get false stories out, the marks will still be believing that 'If it's written on WWE.com it has to be true'.

Anyway, yeah I'm enjoying WWE again and I really hope they keep performing :y:.

Great post Loose Cannon.

[Hired Hitman]

I don't need to comment on the fact that It doesn't matter if you're Black or White these days, but I will because I'm bored.

There are black golfers, there are white Rappers, there are Black... hmm that seems to be it... have a nice day!

[LK]

WHY do you watch wrestling?

[Vastardikai]

http://tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=32160

I had it covered a couple weeks ago.

[Hired Hitman]

Like we are ment to take a thread which got hijacked by "Shut up your ignorant ass" posts? I'll much rather have this as the official thread of the new era discussion, it has a better thread title, anyway.

[Vastardikai]

That's fine, I just wanted to point out that, when I suggested that the WWE could have been using the internet to set up a storyline, and thus set up some intelligent conversation, I was told it was a bad idea. And that it couldn't POSSIBLY be a work.

Anyway, a few weeks go by, some spit, polish, and a better title, and it's suddenly a good idea. Like I said, it's a great idea, glad Vince McMahon thought of it :shifty:. Not being bitter, I just feel I was a bit quicker in seeing the direction of WWE. Then again, I am operating on 4 hours sleep and a strip club visit.

[Just John]

I sure hope we are Entering a new era, because that would be so cool if we were.


Also Cactus Jack, heres a little advice: Go home, get some intelligence, get lost on the way and never be seen again.

[Corkscrewed]

LC... I completely agree with everything you had to say. Sums up my feelings perfectly, and I hope this trend continues. See what happens when you put egos aside and focus on the common good?

Either that or the cyclical nature of the business is on the upswing again...

[Xero]

It certainly seems that we're entering the next era/boom. New stars are coming up and already have world titles, old midcarders are finally being pushed up the card, and new ways of executing angles are coming to fruition.

Now all the WWE has to do is stop being asses and let SmackDown! compete with RAW. It's starting, but slowly.

Unfortunately, though, in this era, not only will the line of shoots and works be blurred, but also the line between smarks and wannabe smarks. Now that, as stated, even retards have the internet, anyone can read a few news sites weekly and sound like smarks.

[Marcyo]

LC... I completely agree with everything you had to say. Sums up my feelings perfectly, and I hope this trend continues. See what happens when you put egos aside and focus on the common good?

Either that or the cyclical nature of the business is on the upswing again...

Corky stole my post :y:

[The Mackem]

I thought the way the draft was done worked really well too. A major improvement on last years. There's a lot of things lately that have come off for them really well and there has been a lot of misdirection thrown at us which is making people interested in the TV shows which generates that all important interest in the PPVs.

[Pepsi Man]

"To the little things like that of Richards attacking Masters on Raw after few knew Richards was even injured by him."

Despite the fact that they mentioned it on Raw every time Masters wrestled.

[James Steele]

Like we are ment to take a thread which got hijacked by "Shut up your ignorant ass" posts? I'll much rather have this as the official thread of the new era discussion, it has a better thread title, anyway.
What's wrong with a thread full of "Shut up you ignorant ass!" posts?

http://tpww.net/forums/images/smilies/shifty.gif

[Just John]

I always laugh my ass off whenever I see the "Shut Up You Ignorant Ass" posts.

[Loose Cannon]

"To the little things like that of Richards attacking Masters on Raw after few knew Richards was even injured by him."

Despite the fact that they mentioned it on Raw every time Masters wrestled.

no they didn't. Well I never heard

And why you have to nit pick my comments. Just respond to the question. Not that hard.

Or at least nit-pick and respond at the same time.

[TerranRich]

You're such whiner, Loose Cannon. Also, you forgot to capitalize the first word in the sentence of your post. Oh, and nitpick is one word, not hyphenized. Oh, and you asked a question on line 2 of your post, but put a period instead. And you forgot to punctuate the second sentence in the first line of your post.

All in all, my response? I agree, Loose Cannon, with...whatever it was you said.

;) :D

[Cactus Jack]

^^Fucking retard!

Anyway what direction do I want WWE to move to....nowhere.....they're not going anywhere the way their going anyway so why put down anything? None of you give a shit what I put down here anyway so why ask me anything?......I'm a fucking dork what the fuck do I know?

[M. Banana]

^^Fucking retard!

Why would you NOT want the WWE to move at all? Just sit at the shit pot it once was. They are doing GREAT things with this new "era".

And stop posting your sig, faggot.

[M. Banana]

You spelled "instead" wrong, Terran.

[Kane Knight]

What crawled up Cactus Sack's ass and died?

[loopydate]

His head?

[TerranRich]

Erm...no I didn't :shifty:

:p

[Pepsi Man]

no they didn't. Well I never heard

And why you have to nit pick my comments. Just respond to the question. Not that hard.

Or at least nit-pick and respond at the same time.
Damn, dude. If I were you, I probably just would've been glad to know that someone took the time to actually read my post.

I think my opinion NOW is that a lot of fans are playing jokes on themselves by not seeing what's right in front of their faces while simultaneously trying to look deeper into things than there is depth.

[Kane Knight]

Damn, dude. If I were you, I probably just would've been glad to know that someone took the time to actually read my post.

I think my opinion NOW is that a lot of fans are playing jokes on themselves by not seeing what's right in front of their faces while simultaneously trying to look deeper into things than there is depth.
I don't think that there's any point in getting too in depth in this anyway. We can all say what we think, and when w3e THINK it became a work, and that''s about it.

[TerranRich]

Moral of the story: DON'T THINK!

[Mr. Nerfect]

I like the way the WWE finally seems to be changing instead of being "Attitude Jr.". John Cena and Batista have the fans full support, and the brands are seemingly evening out.

The next change I'd like to see int he WWE is a General Manager with a spine. Have Eric Bischoff actually punish Cena for F-Uing him on RAW (if I were Eric Bischoff, I'd strip Cena of his title and walk around the ring in a fairy costume, but yeah), to further the tension between them. Just a 6-on-1 Handicap Match where John Cena has to face Tyson Tomko, Gene Snitsky, Rob Conway, Rene Dupree, Romeo & Antonio where Cena puts up a great fight, but eventually passes out in Rene Dupree's Cobra Clutch, giving the heels a submission victory. Have the heels continue the assault on Cena until The Hurricane, Rosey, Viscera, Val Venis & Shelton Benjamin run down and clear things up. Just something to get the heels over and to get the faces on screen.

But yeah, I love the way the WWE is catering to the casual fan WHILE giving us some attention as well.

[TerranRich]

(if I were Eric Bischoff, I'd strip Cena of his title and walk around the ring in a fairy costume, but yeah)
Why would you walk around the ring in a fairy costume if you were Eric? :wtf: :wtf:

Or did you mean you'd strip Cena of his titlel and make him walk around the ring in a fairy costume?

[The CyNick]

Its funny how some people can see the last week few weeks as something revolutionary, and all I was thinking was "hey this is WCW right before they died".

I'm not saying WWE will die, because they wont (at least for the next 5 years), but this shoot crap is really a bad idea.

The only people who "get" these angles are people on these message boards and people who follow wrestling very closely on the 'net. We've talked about this before, and I'm really shocked you guys haven't really mentioned it much, but they are shooting angle to play to less than 10% of their adiuence. Thats bad.

Hardy may have got a decent pop for his angle, but thats more because those 10% of the people who get the angle are the loudest people. The average fan int he stands doesn't get it. He probably thinks, why didn't Kane come after Edge like that? Or how many people know or care that Smackdown is taped on Tuesday? How many people know or care that RVD isn't allowed to go all out? How many people know or care that JBL roughed up Meanie? How many people even know who Menaie is?

The fact of the matter is this is exactly what Russo thought was such a revolutionary idea when he was desperate in WCW, and it failed.

Even ECW, who liked to do things that were based in reality, sure the smarks ate it up, but look where ECW is right now. That should tell you how successful playing to the smarks really is.

I will say the angle did seem different, which is good, and as someone who they are trying to play to, yeah I liked it. But there are a lot more people who would rather see Hogan pose, or Austin drink beer or Cena rhyme. Those are the things throughout history that have drawn money, none of this stuff ever has.

Sorry to be a wet blanket


Also, the idea that we are on the verge of another boom to me is laughable. You've got Cena who has a ton of star potential, but look where he is right. Just like every other up and comer who had a shot to be something he's stuck in the middle of the card. Look who is on top. Okay gret we dont have HHH, but look whats going to headline Summerslam....HBK vs Hogan. Thats not the way to make new stars.

[Pepsi Man]

Meh, the reactions in arenas across the country have shown a demand for Hardy, and I've never really been a Hardy supporter myself.

Your "that's because they're the loudest" fans claim doesn't really hold up all that well, because then how come in every arena everywhere, RVD doesn't get such huge pops anymore? How come there are no "You screwed Meanie!" chants when JBL comes out?

[The CyNick]

Meh, the reactions in arenas across the country have shown a demand for Hardy, and I've never really been a Hardy supporter myself.

Your "that's because they're the loudest" fans claim doesn't really hold up all that well, because then how come in every arena everywhere, RVD doesn't get such huge pops anymore? How come there are no "You screwed Meanie!" chants when JBL comes out?

Because nobody gives a shit about Meanie.

[Kane Knight]

Meh, the reactions in arenas across the country have shown a demand for Hardy, and I've never really been a Hardy supporter myself.

Your "that's because they're the loudest" fans claim doesn't really hold up all that well, because then how come in every arena everywhere, RVD doesn't get such huge pops anymore? How come there are no "You screwed Meanie!" chants when JBL comes out?
Because CyNick is kneejerking with the same outdated notions everyone else is kneejerking with, material that hasn't been researched since before WCW tanked, even though the environment surrounding it has clearly changed.

[Corkscrewed]

Moral of the story: DON'T THINK!
Be like Lita? :?:

[Corkscrewed]

Anyway, Cynick, I still think it's perfectly okay to go in this direction as long as they don't depend on it. Have a couple of storylines inspired by real life stuff, but don't have everything route on it. It's balance. Maybe a quarter of the angles on TV (i.e. 2-3) might require internetting to totally understand it, but the rest can be like normal.

I mean, we still have Eddie/Rey and Jericho/Cena as two really hot feuds right now that are totally traditional. Batista/JBL has some good potential. The Mexicools? Same thing.

So I don't think we're going the way of WCW... as long as we keep workshoots in moderation (or else people get desensitized to it as well).

[The CyNick]

Anyway, Cynick, I still think it's perfectly okay to go in this direction as long as they don't depend on it. Have a couple of storylines inspired by real life stuff, but don't have everything route on it. It's balance. Maybe a quarter of the angles on TV (i.e. 2-3) might require internetting to totally understand it, but the rest can be like normal.

I mean, we still have Eddie/Rey and Jericho/Cena as two really hot feuds right now that are totally traditional. Batista/JBL has some good potential. The Mexicools? Same thing.

So I don't think we're going the way of WCW... as long as we keep workshoots in moderation (or else people get desensitized to it as well).

See thats where I think the problem lies.

If they want to go the shoot route, then go all out. Have everyone hate on HHH because he's married to Steph, have people rundown Cena because he's just a gimmick with little wrestling talent, have a group of young guys who interfere in every segment that involves guys like Hogan, Piper and HBK because they are sick of those guys taking their spots, etc.

What I have a problem with is when you position one or two angles, and thats what there are; angles, on the show as being "real". That makes no sense in the middle of a show where everything is a work.

Nothing that happened between Hardy and Edge is a shoot, but its positioned as such. How are we then supposed to take these other angles that are "fake"?

And then on top of that you have the issue of very few fans not understanding these angles. Most people dont know that Edge and Hardy were ever together in real life, and nor do they care, so why waste time on TV with it? If you want to shoot an angle based on it, fine. But dont try to insult people by trying to position it as a shoot.

[The CyNick]

Because CyNick is kneejerking with the same outdated notions everyone else is kneejerking with, material that hasn't been researched since before WCW tanked, even though the environment surrounding it has clearly changed.

Go to an event bro.

Its not outdated.

[Kane Knight]

Go to an event bro.

Its not outdated.
Yes it is.

[Kane Knight]

See thats where I think the problem lies.

If they want to go the shoot route, then go all out. Have everyone hate on HHH because he's married to Steph, have people rundown Cena because he's just a gimmick with little wrestling talent, have a group of young guys who interfere in every segment that involves guys like Hogan, Piper and HBK because they are sick of those guys taking their spots, etc.

What I have a problem with is when you position one or two angles, and thats what there are; angles, on the show as being "real". That makes no sense in the middle of a show where everything is a work.

Nothing that happened between Hardy and Edge is a shoot, but its positioned as such. How are we then supposed to take these other angles that are "fake"?

And then on top of that you have the issue of very few fans not understanding these angles. Most people dont know that Edge and Hardy were ever together in real life, and nor do they care, so why waste time on TV with it? If you want to shoot an angle based on it, fine. But dont try to insult people by trying to position it as a shoot. IF nobody knows or cares, then surely this will be reflected in reaction. If not in the crowd reactions, then in the ratings.

But thankfully, we have you to tell us exactly what the wrestling demographics are, so we don't have to wait for pesky things like results. I mean, since you know the wrestling public so well (And how many people have you actually polled on this issue? 5? 6?), your guestimates and outdated logic will surely supplant logic or patience.

And why the Hell would they have to go all out?

[Pepsi Man]

Meh, he's Canadian, so the people he encounters at events probably ARE mostly marks.

(to be fair)

[The CyNick]

IF nobody knows or cares, then surely this will be reflected in reaction. If not in the crowd reactions, then in the ratings.

But thankfully, we have you to tell us exactly what the wrestling demographics are, so we don't have to wait for pesky things like results. I mean, since you know the wrestling public so well (And how many people have you actually polled on this issue? 5? 6?), your guestimates and outdated logic will surely supplant logic or patience.

And why the Hell would they have to go all out?

Hey I could be wrong.....but the majority of things that I say wind up being true, go ahead find something that I was dead wrong about.

And if this does happen to spark a huge increase in ratings over the next few months, or Hardy becomes a top draw, then I'll admit I was wrong, but I really cant see that happening.

When I go to events, I can see who people cheer for. The majority of the fans who are the loudest are the small groups of smarks who are the same people who were chating for Hardy. There's a major difference between the number of people who chant for Hardy and just as an example, the fans who stand up and go nuts when Cena comes out. Again, go to a show if you doubt that.

Also, I'm a beliver in those who dont learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Vince Russo had this same idea when it came to booking angles, he wanted as many storyline that were based in reality/inernet as possible. Look how much success Russo had (post WWE of course).

[PureHatred]

The Russo example you're bringing up is from 5 years ago. The Internet has become far more prevalent and is being widely used as a multimedia tool. Every show that has a viewing audience under 40 uses it to give spoilers or extra footage or backstage interviews. Being interactive is a way of hooking your audience. What the WWE is doing is common practice.

All you have to do is visit a wrestling website or to see how quickly the "news" leaked at wwe.com spreads to see that "smart" fans are not the only ones using the internet anymore.Or as I stated a week ago, EVEN THE RETARDS HAVE COMPUTERS.

Instead of fighting the net, the WWE is trying to control it by picking and choosing what information they are releasing. And its working.

Basically, this new era is just the WWE taking advantage og technology they've had for years.

[PureHatred]

Also, this means that Russo wasn't a complete idiot...he was just ahead of his times. :eek: :eek: :eek:

[The CyNick]

Russo was doing this in TNA as well, and it didn't work there.

The Internet hasn't grown that much since then.

[PureHatred]

Yeah I think it has. There's not a segment of popular culture that does not use the web as an outlet to promote itself.

Plus, these storylines are pretty easy to understand even if you don't know the insider stuff. The Net stuff adds depth, but is really just a bonus. Its like theres an inside joke that the net savvy fans are seeing. But no one lese is really missing out on anything.

So its keeping the fans who visit the sites and the ones who don't interested.

Also, TNA's fan base is tiny. What has worked for them? It would be almost impossible to gauge the interest in an "insider" angle when 80% of the live audience is made up of tourists who wre just passing through the area.

You're right on a lot of stuff, CyNick. But I really do think you're underestimating the effect of the web on even the most basic of fans.

[Kane Knight]

Yeah I think it has. There's not a segment of popular culture that does not use the web as an outlet to promote itself.
And if you haven't noticed, you're fucking Amish.

[Loose Cannon]

I don't know CyNick, I was saying what you were saying about there only being 10% net fans and it's not good to do shoots, but I can't deny the pops and cheers Matt Hardy has been getting for almost 2 solid months. Yea, maybe only a small segment really understand the angle, but wrestling fans are usually androids that just go along with everyone else. So if they keep hearong these Hardy chants, they'll just be like "Hey, this is cool, let's chant too."

[Morgan]

I don't know CyNick, I was saying what you were saying about there only being 10% net fans and it's not good to do shoots, but I can't deny the pops and cheers Matt Hardy has been getting for almost 2 solid months. Yea, maybe only a small segment really understand the angle, but wrestling fans are usually androids that just go along with everyone else. But Hardy is over like rover to me.

Especially the Japanese ones, all clapping together like that. You'd think the Japanese being technological as they are, they'd try and cover that.

[Kane Knight]

I don't know CyNick, I was saying what you were saying about there only being 10% net fans and it's not good to do shoots, but I can't deny the pops and cheers Matt Hardy has been getting for almost 2 solid months. Yea, maybe only a small segment really understand the angle, but wrestling fans are usually androids that just go along with everyone else. But Hardy is over like rover to me.
Of course, the real tell is how successful the angle is. Not just fan reaction.

[Loose Cannon]

we're really just going to have to wait this out. We can make predictions and whatever, but it's just so hard sometimes to tell what will stick in wrestling.

[Kane Knight]

YEah, the end of the day it's all guess work. Logic is a tricky beast. It can justify anything.

[Morgan]

I'm just enjoying it as it is. Pretty sweet year in my opinion so far.

[loopydate]

Did CyNick compare ECW and TNA to WWE? I mean, I'm a CyNick mark, but even he has to agree that you can't try to gauge the success of WWE's new booking style on how it worked in the indies!

ECW didn't fail because of workshoots. ECW failed because they were independently-financed, and the money ran out. TNA isn't floundering because of workshoots. TNA is floundering because they have never had real TV exposure and the roster changes on an almost daily basis.

While this may end up backfiring on WWE (as the WCW booking did), at least WWE is doing their workshoot booking by building off of things that fans want to see rather than on finding the most elaborate ways of giving them the finger.

[TerranRich]

Why do you guys keep comparing this to what Russo did? They're completely different.

[The CyNick]

Thats a fair point.

But I'm not trying to say this one angle will hurt the WWE.

I just think that when you go by the history of wrestling, Ive never seen angles that are based on insider stuff draw money.

If it did, ECW would have caught on to compete with WWE, because people would tell their friends about all this stuff thats going on, and new fans would come in droves.

I just dont think this angle and the idea of using the 'net is going to increase business in any way. All its going to do is appeal to the fans who will never stop watching wrestling, like us.

[zach]

Reatards.

that's awesome

[Hired Hitman]

I wasn't thinking "New Era due to Internet use" I was thinking "New Era due to Young Superstars developing".



..It's it wrong to check out a wrestler that's developing? :shifty:

[Kane Knight]

Thats a fair point.

But I'm not trying to say this one angle will hurt the WWE.

I just think that when you go by the history of wrestling, Ive never seen angles that are based on insider stuff draw money.

If it did, ECW would have caught on to compete with WWE, because people would tell their friends about all this stuff thats going on, and new fans would come in droves.

I just dont think this angle and the idea of using the 'net is going to increase business in any way. All its going to do is appeal to the fans who will never stop watching wrestling, like us.
But isn't it possible that we're looking at a whole new ballgame?

ECW wasn't ecaxtly modern time here. Internet technology takes huge steps up every couple of years, and it's massively more prevalent. EVERYONE uses the net now, and that's the biggest difference. It's now so common that there are ads for products on TV with no phone number...Website only.

Even if it's not now, embracing the internet WILL become a necessity for survival alone, let alone success.