Does Green Bay deserve more respect? [Archive]

Cooler Tom Schuler

10-31-2007, 02:33 PM

Green Bay was a 3 point underdog to Denver, and as of right now they are a 1.5-2 point dog to Kansas City. Now, I'll be the first to admit that it wouldn't make sense to have Green Bay as a huge favorite against anyone, they seem to play just well enough to get the W.

The thing that really bothers me is GB being ranked consistently below Dallas in most power rankings. Lets look at some numbers.

Dallas has beaten the Giants (6-2), Dolphins (0-8), Bears (3-5), Rams (0-8), Bills (3-4), and Vikings (2-5). The combined records of the teams Dallas has beaten? 14-32.

Green Bay has beaten the Eagles (3-4), Giants (6-2), Chargers (4-3), Vikings (2-5), Redskins (4-3), and Broncos (3-4). Combined record? 22-21

The only real advantage I see is that Dallas' loss came against a more respectable opponent than Green Bay's. However, Green Bay's loss can be completely attributed to a mistake-filled game, as opposed to being the inferior team. In GB's loss they committed 12 penalties to lose 93 yards, as well as giving up 5 turnovers. That's not to say Green Bay wouldn't be blown out by the Patriots as well...but that's not the point.

Anyway, I just needed to vent about that. You may carry on. Nothing to see here.

D Mac

10-31-2007, 02:37 PM

Yeah, even after the Chiefs beat them Sunday. :p

Cooler Tom Schuler

10-31-2007, 02:39 PM

:roll:

SammyG

10-31-2007, 02:40 PM

Yes, they do.

D Mac

10-31-2007, 02:41 PM

Honestly even tho it's in Arrowhead, don't know why KC is favored. Even I am skeptical about this game.

D Mac

10-31-2007, 02:42 PM

Probably because of that Favre guy.

SammyG

10-31-2007, 02:42 PM

dude, are you kidding. i expect the packers to win by at least 10.

D Mac

10-31-2007, 02:44 PM

:mad:

And I expect the Rams to lose by at least 20.

SammyG

10-31-2007, 02:48 PM

Having the Bye week against us is tough, I think we can hang in there, I expect us to lose by 10 though.

Team Sheep

10-31-2007, 05:46 PM

I admit I was skeptical about how good Green Bay really are. I'm a believer now.

Jesus Shuttlesworth

10-31-2007, 06:35 PM

I'm a believer

DrA

10-31-2007, 09:12 PM

Eeeh, yeah they do. They've been playing good football as of late, and chances are that they will have some sort of first round bye in the playoffs.

The thing is though, there seems to be a team every year, especially in the NFC, that performs well in the NFC because of happenstance/circumstances. New Orleans, for instance, started off 3-0 last year and got the ball rolling from there. Same thing with Chicago the year before. Green Bay seems to me like one of those teams that has the momentum going right now, will probably get a solid 11-5 or 12-4 record out of it, but fold in some playoff game that isn't the Super Bowl. I just don't see how a Brett Favre-centralized team can be considered a contender at this point in time.

DrA

10-31-2007, 09:22 PM

That Kansas City can also be seen as a trap game. Kansas City is a hard city to play in, and the Chiefs are a pretty decent team, so that point spread is understandable to me. Overall, Green Bay is probably the better team. I'll put them in that level with Pittsburgh and Tennessee, sort of the "upper-mid-carders", if you will.

Jesus Shuttlesworth

11-01-2007, 10:24 AM

CSL

11-01-2007, 11:19 AM

I have Picked Them for this week.

D Mac

11-01-2007, 12:46 PM

Jarred Allen will keep Favre in check.

Cooler Tom Schuler

11-01-2007, 03:00 PM

Just heard that KC has only given up 6 TD passes this season, which is tied for 2nd best in the NFL. That might have something to do with Green Bay not being favored, considering last time I checked their rushing stats they were putting up like 57 YPG

True, they have only given up 6 TD passes, but they've also only had 7 themselves. Comparatively, Green Bay has given up 10 TD passes, and scored 11. So there's not a whole lot of disparity there.

KC is allowing 197.1 passing yards per game (10th), and 108.7 rushing (17th).

Despite the fact that Green Bay is dead last in running offense (71.3ypg), they're still +3 on rushing touchdowns vs their opponents.

Technically KC's 6 TD passes allowed puts them tied for second with 3 other teams, and behind three teams with 5.

Blah blah blah, I'm just spouting out numbers without making any actual arguments here, so I'm going to go ahead and stop now.

road doggy dogg

11-02-2007, 11:45 AM

I agree that GB is totally the better team, but KC is a hard city to play in. The Chiefs offense is offensive (LOL) but their D has been playing pretty solidly. If the Packers settle on a starting back (Ryan Grant?) then maybe their running game will pick up steam. I think the Packers will make short work of the Chiefs.

D Mac

11-03-2007, 01:07 AM

I think the Packers will make short work of the Chiefs.

Incorrect

DAMN iNATOR

11-03-2007, 10:45 AM

Cooler Tom Schuler

11-05-2007, 12:26 AM

dude, are you kidding. i expect the packers to win by at least 10.

Cooler Tom Schuler

11-05-2007, 12:27 AM

Denver will win by 13.

D Mac

11-05-2007, 03:24 AM

:foc:

Cooler Tom Schuler

11-05-2007, 11:16 AM

:'(

Jeritron

11-08-2007, 02:54 AM

Green Bay deserves tons of respect. They're quite possibly the best team in the NFC, I'm not very big on the Cowboys.
I love Favre, always have, I'd like to see him win the big one again before he retires, which should be soon.
Unfortunately my rooting for them can only go so far since I'm from Boston and, hopefully, we get to the Superbowl.
I'd like to play the Packers since they're my second favorite team.

The only problem is the NFC is like the national league in baseball. It's almost pointless, because as good as the Packers or Cowboys are in the NFC, I can't see them beating The Patriots, Colts or even the Steelers from the AFC

Mister Sinister

11-08-2007, 02:59 AM

Miami will lose by 17

Kris P Lettus

11-08-2007, 01:07 PM

:mad:

And I expect the Rams to lose by at least 20.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO

#1-norm-fan

11-09-2007, 03:55 PM

Green Bay deserves more respect but in no way should they be above Dallas in any power polls.

Dallas has been more dominant and looked more crisp.

Also, Dallas had a much, MUCH more mistake filled game against Buffalo than Green Bay did against Chicago and they still found a way to win it.

DAMN iNATOR

11-10-2007, 02:24 PM

Cooler Tom Schuler

11-10-2007, 02:37 PM

Dallas has been more dominant and looked more crisp.

Also, Dallas had a much, MUCH more mistake filled game against Buffalo than Green Bay did against Chicago and they still found a way to win it.

I think that speaks more against Buffalo than it does for Dallas.

I don't know how you can say they've been more dominant when overall they've been playing weaker teams.

Ninti the Mad

11-13-2007, 01:04 AM

Respect is earned on the field.

#1-norm-fan

11-13-2007, 01:48 AM

I think that speaks more against Buffalo than it does for Dallas.

I don't know how you can say they've been more dominant when overall they've been playing weaker teams.

And they've dominated them. Something that until yesterday, Green Bay hadn't been doing. I didn't say anything about what teams they played.

Also, Dallas dominated Chicago in Chicago and then a couple weeks later, Chicago went into Green Bay and handed them their first loss.

#1-norm-fan

11-13-2007, 01:53 AM

I think that speaks more against Buffalo than it does for Dallas.

What's your point? You brought up the fact that Green Bay's only loss came when they made alot of mistakes as if that is a reason Green Bay should maybe get ranked above Dallas. Yet Dallas making more mistakes and still winning means nothing. There is no logic involved in any of this. Green Bay sucked at home and lost to Chicago. Dallas sucked on the road (offensively) and beat Buffalo. What about that says GB is better?

Fignuts

11-13-2007, 02:05 AM

They didn't find a way to beat Buffalo. Buffalo stopped playing defense with 3 minutes left in the game, and handed them the win.

Cooler Tom Schuler

11-13-2007, 02:29 AM

What's your point? You brought up the fact that Green Bay's only loss came when they made alot of mistakes as if that is a reason Green Bay should maybe get ranked above Dallas. Yet Dallas making more mistakes and still winning means nothing. There is no logic involved in any of this. Green Bay sucked at home and lost to Chicago. Dallas sucked on the road (offensively) and beat Buffalo. What about that says GB is better?

I never said that Dallas making more mistakes and winning means nothing. What I'm saying is that Buffalo is a bad enough team that Dallas can make those mistakes and still win. If Dallas had played that poorly against Chicago, it is far more likely that why would have lost.

Also, don't give me bullshit about there being no logic in what I'm saying. If you disagree with my points, that's fine, give me counterpoints, but to say there's no logic is a shitty attempt at discrediting a point I tried to make just because of your own faulty interpretation.

Anyway, the fact is Dallas and Green Bay have equal records, and Green Bay's strength of victory is significantly better. That is the foundation of my argument. You can deem the rest erroneous if you'd like, that's not important.

--

This is getting really frustrating to me because it's making me sound like a mindless homer and I try very hard not to be. I don't mock teams that my team has beaten, and I don't make baseless claims that my team is better than others that are clearly superior. Before the season I fully expected Green Bay to be 3-6 at this point.

The fact of the matter is, GB is tied for the second best record in the league. There's no way to know which team is actually better (until after 11/29, but I'm sure there'll still be questions after that regardless of the result).

I would just like to have a reasonable discussion about the topic I raised. Is that too much to ask?

#1-norm-fan

11-13-2007, 02:29 AM

They didn't find a way to beat Buffalo. Buffalo stopped playing defense with 3 minutes left in the game, and handed them the win.

lol. Yeah, because Dallas' offense has been so terrible the rest of the season, it MUST have been Buffalo's scary defense slipping up and not Dallas' offense finally coming together after their defense didn't allow anything from Buffalo's offense all game to keep them in it.

Seriously... where does that even remotely make sense? I'm begging you to try to back that up. lol

Cooler Tom Schuler

11-13-2007, 02:33 AM

Don't make me do a dramatic reading of my own post.

Cooler Tom Schuler

11-13-2007, 02:38 AM

#1-wwf-fan, all you've been doing in this thread is telling people that what they say makes no sense. Either make a point of your own or shut the fuck up.

#1-norm-fan

11-13-2007, 02:40 AM

I never said that Dallas making more mistakes and winning means nothing. What I'm saying is that Buffalo is a bad enough team that Dallas can make those mistakes and still win. If Dallas had played that poorly against Chicago, it is far more likely that why would have lost.

Also, don't give me bullshit about there being no logic in what I'm saying. If you disagree with my points, that's fine, give me counterpoints, but to say there's no logic is a shitty attempt at discrediting a point I tried to make just because of your own faulty interpretation.

Anyway, the fact is Dallas and Green Bay have equal records, and Green Bay's strength of victory is significantly better. That is the foundation of my argument. You can deem the rest erroneous if you'd like, that's not important.

--

Yes, Green Bay's strength of victory is better. Dallas' didn't chose to play two teams who have a combined record of 1-17 but I will give you that.

However the strength of the team Dallas lost to is incredibly better than the one Green Bay lost to. You counter that by saying "Well, Green Bay only lost because they made mistakes"... still struggling to find LOGIC in defending a loss because the team made alot of mistakes. As if Dallas turning the ball over 7 times against the Pats, suddenly justifies it.

You focus on strength of victory... a stat that is pretty lame to focus on anyway. If New England happened to play the schedule Dallas played and beat those teams, would it be a reason to say Green Bay is better than New England? Thank you.

However, you have this "they made mistakes" logic to combat the strength of loss. Dallas has not lost to a bad team. Green Bay has. At home, no less.

So yes, until you come up with something better, the bullshit about there being no logic in your points will continue.

#1-norm-fan

11-13-2007, 02:43 AM

#1-wwf-fan, all you've been doing in this thread is telling people that what they say makes no sense. Either make a point of your own or shut the fuck up.

lol... it's not that I'm not making points. It's just that you're ignoring my points because you know your retarded statements are being brought to light and you have nothing to say that would make sense.

Cooler Tom Schuler

11-13-2007, 12:22 PM

However the strength of the team Dallas lost to is incredibly better than the one Green Bay lost to. You counter that by saying "Well, Green Bay only lost because they made mistakes"... still struggling to find LOGIC in defending a loss because the team made alot of mistakes. As if Dallas turning the ball over 7 times against the Pats, suddenly justifies it.

I already told that that was not the point I'm making, yet you keep going on about it.

Cooler Tom Schuler

11-13-2007, 12:31 PM

You keep going on about this point you think I made, but lets take to sentences from my first post of the thread.

"The only real advantage I see is that Dallas' loss came against a more respectable opponent than Green Bay's."

"That's not to say Green Bay wouldn't be blown out by the Patriots as well...but that's not the point."

The only thing supporting your argument against my ability to form logically cohesive points is me saying that Dallas' win against Buffalo speaks more as an argument that Buffalo is bad than that Dallas is good.

Basically all you are doing in this thread is negating everything I'm saying best on an errant comment I made about Green Bay playing a very mistake-filled game in there loss to Chicago. GUESS WHAT? I recognize that that is not a foundation for claiming GB is better, it's just something I threw out there in rambling. However, just because I said that does not mean everything else I've said does not hold water.

And yes, strength of victory is a good statistic for measuring two teams with identical records that haven't played each other. If you can think of a better one, feel free to share it with the class.

#1-norm-fan

11-14-2007, 03:33 PM

And yes, strength of victory is a good statistic for measuring two teams with identical records that haven't played each other. If you can think of a better one, feel free to share it with the class.

lol... so I'll have to say it for a third time huh?

STRENGTH.... OF.... LOSS.

Again, Dallas and Green Bay defeated 8 teams that the league pitted them against this year. Their opponents record means NOTHING in saying if one team is better than the other. All that each team can possibly do is win the game... and they did. So... ? Are the teams supposed to fly to New England or Indy or Pittsburgh on random weeks and just step on the field and say "Alright, we need to work on our strength of victory so WE'RE gonna be playing this game! :mad:" ?

And for that one game that they lost, it was the same deal. The NFL pitted them against that team, and all that they can possibly do to help themselves is win the game they are scheduled to play.

Dallas couldn't get the job done at home against the 9-0 best team in football. (A game that they were actually in and leading after most of the 3rd quarter.)

Green Bay couldn't get the job done at home against the 4-5 Chicago Bears (A team that Dallas beat on the road just 2 weeks earlier 34-10)

DAMN iNATOR

11-14-2007, 03:34 PM

I think that speaks more against Buffalo than it does for Dallas.

I don't know how you can say they've been more dominant when overall they've been playing weaker teams.

Yeah, it's like arguing that Detroit looked more dominant than Arizona in a mistake filled game, and then trying to argue that Detroit still should have won. But the fact is they didn't because Arizona got more pts. off turnovers than Detroit and that made all the difference in their 31-21 upset, if you want to call it that, over the Detroit Losers.

Cooler Tom Schuler

11-14-2007, 06:13 PM

Yeah, it's like arguing that Detroit looked more dominant than Arizona in a mistake filled game, and then trying to argue that Detroit still should have won. But the fact is they didn't because Arizona got more pts. off turnovers than Detroit and that made all the difference in their 31-21 upset, if you want to call it that, over the Detroit Losers.

Actually, Arizona was the favorite.

DAMN iNATOR

11-17-2007, 11:25 AM

Actually, Arizona was the favorite.

Nice. Well, hopefully Green Bay is 9-1 after tomorrow...

Cooler Tom Schuler

11-18-2007, 12:36 AM

It used to suck being a Green Bay fan in CA, but this season is awesome.

8 of Green Bay's first 9 games have been shown on local TV here, and it's not slowing down.

http://rightquick.net/misc/packersONtv.gif

Back off Mike, Juliet, and Tyra. I've got football to watch.

DAMN iNATOR

11-18-2007, 04:37 PM

WOO-HOO! Green Bay has improved to 9-1, while Detroit falls to 6-4, with their first collision of the ’07-’08 season on Thanksgiving day this week. And no offense to Detroit fans who read this, but you've got no prayer against #4 and the Big Pack Attack...

Cooler Tom Schuler

11-18-2007, 10:23 PM

And no offense to Detroit fans who read this, but you've got no prayer against #4 and the Big Pack Attack...

Don't do that...

Nervous Ferret

11-18-2007, 11:11 PM

lol wow football at 10AM. I knew that's how it was but still weird to see. Best thing about Sunday is rolling out of bed after noon and turning on the Jets pregame

Cooler Tom Schuler

11-18-2007, 11:37 PM

Yeah, during high school I would always fall asleep during morning games.

DAMN iNATOR

11-23-2007, 02:53 PM

Don't do that...

Well it looked like I was right. Now we wait till 12/2 for the big showdown with Dallas. It will be a dogfight to the finish.

DrA

11-23-2007, 03:45 PM

nah

DrA

11-23-2007, 03:55 PM

Green Bay has gone from being under-rated to over-rated in the span of two weeks.

DAMN iNATOR

11-23-2007, 04:03 PM

nah

Seriously. You might not think so, but that will be one wild game for sure, and whoever loses, I can assure you will not be very gracious losers. I'd hate to be on the losing side of that one.

Cooler Tom Schuler

11-23-2007, 06:45 PM

Green Bay has gone from being under-rated to over-rated in the span of two weeks.

Are there any teams that are correctly rated?

#1-norm-fan

11-23-2007, 09:58 PM

Are there any teams that are correctly rated?

San Francisco

McLegend

11-23-2007, 10:02 PM

and The Dolphins

#1-norm-fan

11-23-2007, 10:02 PM

Seriously. You might not think so, but that will be one wild game for sure, and whoever loses, I can assure you will not be very gracious losers. I'd hate to be on the losing side of that one.

lol. It's not wrestling. I'm sure they will be gracious losers. I can almost assure you if GB loses, Brett Favre will not hold a press conference where he cusses out Tony Romo and challenges Dallas to one more game... INSIDE A 15 FOOT HIGH STEEL CAGE!!!