Does Green Bay deserve more respect?

**Cooler Tom Schuler** · 10-31-2007, 03:33 PM

Green Bay was a 3 point underdog to Denver, and as of right now they are a 1.5-2 point dog to Kansas City. Now, I'll be the first to admit that it wouldn't make sense to have Green Bay as a huge favorite against anyone, they seem to play just well enough to get the W.

The thing that really bothers me is GB being ranked consistently below Dallas in most power rankings. Lets look at some numbers.

Dallas has beaten the Giants (6-2), Dolphins (0-8), Bears (3-5), Rams (0-8), Bills (3-4), and Vikings (2-5). The combined records of the teams Dallas has beaten? 14-32.

Green Bay has beaten the Eagles (3-4), Giants (6-2), Chargers (4-3), Vikings (2-5), Redskins (4-3), and Broncos (3-4). Combined record? 22-21

The only real advantage I see is that Dallas' loss came against a more respectable opponent than Green Bay's. However, Green Bay's loss can be completely attributed to a mistake-filled game, as opposed to being the inferior team. In GB's loss they committed 12 penalties to lose 93 yards, as well as giving up 5 turnovers. That's not to say Green Bay wouldn't be blown out by the Patriots as well...but that's not the point.

Anyway, I just needed to vent about that. You may carry on. Nothing to see here.

**D Mac** · 10-31-2007, 03:37 PM

Yeah, even after the Chiefs beat them Sunday.

**Cooler Tom Schuler** · 10-31-2007, 03:39 PM

**SammyG** · 10-31-2007, 03:40 PM

Yes, they do.

**D Mac** · 10-31-2007, 03:41 PM

Honestly even tho it's in Arrowhead, don't know why KC is favored. Even I am skeptical about this game.

**D Mac** · 10-31-2007, 03:42 PM

Probably because of that Favre guy.

**SammyG** · 10-31-2007, 03:42 PM

dude, are you kidding. i expect the packers to win by at least 10.

**D Mac** · 10-31-2007, 03:44 PM

And I expect the Rams to lose by at least 20.

**SammyG** · 10-31-2007, 03:48 PM

Having the Bye week against us is tough, I think we can hang in there, I expect us to lose by 10 though.

**Team Sheep** · 10-31-2007, 06:46 PM

I admit I was skeptical about how good Green Bay really are. I'm a believer now.

**Jesus Shuttlesworth** · 10-31-2007, 07:35 PM

I'm a believer

**DrA** · 10-31-2007, 10:12 PM

Eeeh, yeah they do. They've been playing good football as of late, and chances are that they will have some sort of first round bye in the playoffs.

The thing is though, there seems to be a team every year, especially in the NFC, that performs well in the NFC because of happenstance/circumstances. New Orleans, for instance, started off 3-0 last year and got the ball rolling from there. Same thing with Chicago the year before. Green Bay seems to me like one of those teams that has the momentum going right now, will probably get a solid 11-5 or 12-4 record out of it, but fold in some playoff game that isn't the Super Bowl. I just don't see how a Brett Favre-centralized team can be considered a contender at this point in time.

**DrA** · 10-31-2007, 10:22 PM

That Kansas City can also be seen as a trap game. Kansas City is a hard city to play in, and the Chiefs are a pretty decent team, so that point spread is understandable to me. Overall, Green Bay is probably the better team. I'll put them in that level with Pittsburgh and Tennessee, sort of the "upper-mid-carders", if you will.

**Jesus Shuttlesworth** · 11-01-2007, 11:24 AM

Just heard that KC has only given up 6 TD passes this season, which is tied for 2nd best in the NFL. That might have something to do with Green Bay not being favored, considering last time I checked their rushing stats they were putting up like 57 YPG

**CSL** · 11-01-2007, 12:19 PM

I have Picked Them for this week.

**D Mac** · 11-01-2007, 01:46 PM

Jarred Allen will keep Favre in check.

**Cooler Tom Schuler** · 11-01-2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sTiMa34

Just heard that KC has only given up 6 TD passes this season, which is tied for 2nd best in the NFL. That might have something to do with Green Bay not being favored, considering last time I checked their rushing stats they were putting up like 57 YPG

True, they have only given up 6 TD passes, but they've also only had 7 themselves. Comparatively, Green Bay has given up 10 TD passes, and scored 11. So there's not a whole lot of disparity there.

KC is allowing 197.1 passing yards per game (10th), and 108.7 rushing (17th).

Despite the fact that Green Bay is dead last in running offense (71.3ypg), they're still +3 on rushing touchdowns vs their opponents.

Technically KC's 6 TD passes allowed puts them tied for second with 3 other teams, and behind three teams with 5.

Blah blah blah, I'm just spouting out numbers without making any actual arguments here, so I'm going to go ahead and stop now.

**road doggy dogg** · 11-02-2007, 12:45 PM

I agree that GB is totally the better team, but KC is a hard city to play in. The Chiefs offense is offensive (LOL) but their D has been playing pretty solidly. If the Packers settle on a starting back (Ryan Grant?) then maybe their running game will pick up steam. I think the Packers will make short work of the Chiefs.

**D Mac** · 11-03-2007, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by road doggy dogg

I think the Packers will make short work of the Chiefs.

Incorrect

**DAMN iNATOR** · 11-03-2007, 11:45 AM

**Cooler Tom Schuler** · 11-05-2007, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SammyG

dude, are you kidding. i expect the packers to win by at least 10.

**Cooler Tom Schuler** · 11-05-2007, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SammyG (Last Week)

Denver will win by 13.

**D Mac** · 11-05-2007, 04:24 AM

:foc:

**Cooler Tom Schuler** · 11-05-2007, 12:16 PM

**Jeritron** · 11-08-2007, 03:54 AM

Green Bay deserves tons of respect. They're quite possibly the best team in the NFC, I'm not very big on the Cowboys.
I love Favre, always have, I'd like to see him win the big one again before he retires, which should be soon.
Unfortunately my rooting for them can only go so far since I'm from Boston and, hopefully, we get to the Superbowl.
I'd like to play the Packers since they're my second favorite team.

The only problem is the NFC is like the national league in baseball. It's almost pointless, because as good as the Packers or Cowboys are in the NFC, I can't see them beating The Patriots, Colts or even the Steelers from the AFC

**Mister Sinister** · 11-08-2007, 03:59 AM

Miami will lose by 17

**Kris P Lettus** · 11-08-2007, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel Mac

And I expect the Rams to lose by at least 20.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO

**#1-norm-fan** · 11-09-2007, 04:55 PM

Green Bay deserves more respect but in no way should they be above Dallas in any power polls.

Dallas has been more dominant and looked more crisp.

Also, Dallas had a much, MUCH more mistake filled game against Buffalo than Green Bay did against Chicago and they still found a way to win it.

**DAMN iNATOR** · 11-10-2007, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan

Green Bay deserves more respect but in no way should they be above Dallas in any power polls.

Dallas has been more dominant and looked more crisp.

Also, Dallas had a much, MUCH more mistake filled game against Buffalo than Green Bay did against Chicago and they still found a way to win it.

We�ll see if you still feel that way when they whoop on Detroit on Thanksgiving.

:foc:

**Cooler Tom Schuler** · 11-10-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Dallas has been more dominant and looked more crisp.

Also, Dallas had a much, MUCH more mistake filled game against Buffalo than Green Bay did against Chicago and they still found a way to win it.

I think that speaks more against Buffalo than it does for Dallas.

I don't know how you can say they've been more dominant when overall they've been playing weaker teams.

**Ninti the Mad** · 11-13-2007, 02:04 AM

Respect is earned on the field.

**#1-norm-fan** · 11-13-2007, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooler Tom Schuler

I think that speaks more against Buffalo than it does for Dallas.

I don't know how you can say they've been more dominant when overall they've been playing weaker teams.

And they've dominated them. Something that until yesterday, Green Bay hadn't been doing. I didn't say anything about what teams they played.

Also, Dallas dominated Chicago in Chicago and then a couple weeks later, Chicago went into Green Bay and handed them their first loss.

**#1-norm-fan** · 11-13-2007, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooler Tom Schuler

I think that speaks more against Buffalo than it does for Dallas.

What's your point? You brought up the fact that Green Bay's only loss came when they made alot of mistakes as if that is a reason Green Bay should maybe get ranked above Dallas. Yet Dallas making more mistakes and still winning means nothing. There is no logic involved in any of this. Green Bay sucked at home and lost to Chicago. Dallas sucked on the road (offensively) and beat Buffalo. What about that says GB is better?

**Fignuts** · 11-13-2007, 03:05 AM

They didn't find a way to beat Buffalo. Buffalo stopped playing defense with 3 minutes left in the game, and handed them the win.

**Cooler Tom Schuler** · 11-13-2007, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan

What's your point? You brought up the fact that Green Bay's only loss came when they made alot of mistakes as if that is a reason Green Bay should maybe get ranked above Dallas. Yet Dallas making more mistakes and still winning means nothing. There is no logic involved in any of this. Green Bay sucked at home and lost to Chicago. Dallas sucked on the road (offensively) and beat Buffalo. What about that says GB is better?

I never said that Dallas making more mistakes and winning means nothing. What I'm saying is that Buffalo is a bad enough team that Dallas can make those mistakes and still win. If Dallas had played that poorly against Chicago, it is far more likely that why would have lost.

Also, don't give me bullshit about there being no logic in what I'm saying. If you disagree with my points, that's fine, give me counterpoints, but to say there's no logic is a shitty attempt at discrediting a point I tried to make just because of your own faulty interpretation.

Anyway, the fact is Dallas and Green Bay have equal records, and Green Bay's strength of victory is significantly better. That is the foundation of my argument. You can deem the rest erroneous if you'd like, that's not important.

--

This is getting really frustrating to me because it's making me sound like a mindless homer and I try very hard not to be. I don't mock teams that my team has beaten, and I don't make baseless claims that my team is better than others that are clearly superior. Before the season I fully expected Green Bay to be 3-6 at this point.

The fact of the matter is, GB is tied for the second best record in the league. There's no way to know which team is actually better (until after 11/29, but I'm sure there'll still be questions after that regardless of the result).

I would just like to have a reasonable discussion about the topic I raised. Is that too much to ask?

**#1-norm-fan** · 11-13-2007, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fignuts

They didn't find a way to beat Buffalo. Buffalo stopped playing defense with 3 minutes left in the game, and handed them the win.

lol. Yeah, because Dallas' offense has been so terrible the rest of the season, it MUST have been Buffalo's scary defense slipping up and not Dallas' offense finally coming together after their defense didn't allow anything from Buffalo's offense all game to keep them in it.

Seriously... where does that even remotely make sense? I'm begging you to try to back that up. lol

**Cooler Tom Schuler** · 11-13-2007, 03:33 AM

Don't make me do a dramatic reading of my own post.

**Cooler Tom Schuler** · 11-13-2007, 03:38 AM

#1-wwf-fan, all you've been doing in this thread is telling people that what they say makes no sense. Either make a point of your own or shut the fuck up.

**#1-norm-fan** · 11-13-2007, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooler Tom Schuler

I never said that Dallas making more mistakes and winning means nothing. What I'm saying is that Buffalo is a bad enough team that Dallas can make those mistakes and still win. If Dallas had played that poorly against Chicago, it is far more likely that why would have lost.

Also, don't give me bullshit about there being no logic in what I'm saying. If you disagree with my points, that's fine, give me counterpoints, but to say there's no logic is a shitty attempt at discrediting a point I tried to make just because of your own faulty interpretation.

Anyway, the fact is Dallas and Green Bay have equal records, and Green Bay's strength of victory is significantly better. That is the foundation of my argument. You can deem the rest erroneous if you'd like, that's not important.

--

Yes, Green Bay's strength of victory is better. Dallas' didn't chose to play two teams who have a combined record of 1-17 but I will give you that.

However the strength of the team Dallas lost to is incredibly better than the one Green Bay lost to. You counter that by saying "Well, Green Bay only lost because they made mistakes"... still struggling to find LOGIC in defending a loss because the team made alot of mistakes. As if Dallas turning the ball over 7 times against the Pats, suddenly justifies it.

You focus on strength of victory... a stat that is pretty lame to focus on anyway. If New England happened to play the schedule Dallas played and beat those teams, would it be a reason to say Green Bay is better than New England? Thank you.

However, you have this "they made mistakes" logic to combat the strength of loss. Dallas has not lost to a bad team. Green Bay has. At home, no less.

So yes, until you come up with something better, the bullshit about there being no logic in your points will continue.

**#1-norm-fan** · 11-13-2007, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooler Tom Schuler

#1-wwf-fan, all you've been doing in this thread is telling people that what they say makes no sense. Either make a point of your own or shut the fuck up.

lol... it's not that I'm not making points. It's just that you're ignoring my points because you know your retarded statements are being brought to light and you have nothing to say that would make sense.

10-31-2007, 03:33 PM	#1
Cooler Tom Schuler Sleepy Bitch Posts: 6,336	Does Green Bay deserve more respect? Green Bay was a 3 point underdog to Denver, and as of right now they are a 1.5-2 point dog to Kansas City. Now, I'll be the first to admit that it wouldn't make sense to have Green Bay as a huge favorite against anyone, they seem to play just well enough to get the W. The thing that really bothers me is GB being ranked consistently below Dallas in most power rankings. Lets look at some numbers. Dallas has beaten the Giants (6-2), Dolphins (0-8), Bears (3-5), Rams (0-8), Bills (3-4), and Vikings (2-5). The combined records of the teams Dallas has beaten? 14-32. Green Bay has beaten the Eagles (3-4), Giants (6-2), Chargers (4-3), Vikings (2-5), Redskins (4-3), and Broncos (3-4). Combined record? 22-21 The only real advantage I see is that Dallas' loss came against a more respectable opponent than Green Bay's. However, Green Bay's loss can be completely attributed to a mistake-filled game, as opposed to being the inferior team. In GB's loss they committed 12 penalties to lose 93 yards, as well as giving up 5 turnovers. That's not to say Green Bay wouldn't be blown out by the Patriots as well...but that's not the point. Anyway, I just needed to vent about that. You may carry on. Nothing to see here. I just went to reupload the dramatic readings and all the files I had archived were 0 bytes.

10-31-2007, 03:37 PM	#2
D Mac Posts: 21,603	Yeah, even after the Chiefs beat them Sunday.

10-31-2007, 03:39 PM	#3
Cooler Tom Schuler Sleepy Bitch Posts: 6,336

10-31-2007, 03:40 PM	#4
SammyG LAKE SHOW HOES Posts: 25,768	Yes, they do.

10-31-2007, 03:41 PM	#5
D Mac Posts: 21,603	Honestly even tho it's in Arrowhead, don't know why KC is favored. Even I am skeptical about this game.

10-31-2007, 03:42 PM	#6
D Mac Posts: 21,603	Probably because of that Favre guy.

10-31-2007, 03:44 PM	#8
D Mac Posts: 21,603	And I expect the Rams to lose by at least 20.

10-31-2007, 03:48 PM	#9
SammyG LAKE SHOW HOES Posts: 25,768	Having the Bye week against us is tough, I think we can hang in there, I expect us to lose by 10 though.

10-31-2007, 06:46 PM	#10
Team Sheep T�m Defaid Posts: 6,646	I admit I was skeptical about how good Green Bay really are. I'm a believer now.

10-31-2007, 07:35 PM	#11
Jesus Shuttlesworth Posts: 42,765	I'm a believer

11-01-2007, 12:19 PM	#15
CSL Over Like Rover Posts: 38,444	I have Picked Them for this week.

10-31-2007, 10:12 PM	#12
DrA Posts: 24,537	Eeeh, yeah they do. They've been playing good football as of late, and chances are that they will have some sort of first round bye in the playoffs. The thing is though, there seems to be a team every year, especially in the NFC, that performs well in the NFC because of happenstance/circumstances. New Orleans, for instance, started off 3-0 last year and got the ball rolling from there. Same thing with Chicago the year before. Green Bay seems to me like one of those teams that has the momentum going right now, will probably get a solid 11-5 or 12-4 record out of it, but fold in some playoff game that isn't the Super Bowl. I just don't see how a Brett Favre-centralized team can be considered a contender at this point in time.

10-31-2007, 10:22 PM	#13
DrA Posts: 24,537	That Kansas City can also be seen as a trap game. Kansas City is a hard city to play in, and the Chiefs are a pretty decent team, so that point spread is understandable to me. Overall, Green Bay is probably the better team. I'll put them in that level with Pittsburgh and Tennessee, sort of the "upper-mid-carders", if you will.

11-01-2007, 11:24 AM	#14
Jesus Shuttlesworth Posts: 42,765	Just heard that KC has only given up 6 TD passes this season, which is tied for 2nd best in the NFL. That might have something to do with Green Bay not being favored, considering last time I checked their rushing stats they were putting up like 57 YPG

11-01-2007, 01:46 PM	#16
D Mac Posts: 21,603	Jarred Allen will keep Favre in check.

11-02-2007, 12:45 PM	#18
road doggy dogg wekasauce Posts: 106,938	I agree that GB is totally the better team, but KC is a hard city to play in. The Chiefs offense is offensive (LOL) but their D has been playing pretty solidly. If the Packers settle on a starting back (Ryan Grant?) then maybe their running game will pick up steam. I think the Packers will make short work of the Chiefs.

11-03-2007, 11:45 AM	#20
DAMN iNATOR RIP SABU Posts: 35,580

11-05-2007, 12:16 PM	#24
Cooler Tom Schuler Sleepy Bitch Posts: 6,336

11-08-2007, 03:54 AM	#25
Jeritron Get a poke on Posts: 35,234	Green Bay deserves tons of respect. They're quite possibly the best team in the NFC, I'm not very big on the Cowboys. I love Favre, always have, I'd like to see him win the big one again before he retires, which should be soon. Unfortunately my rooting for them can only go so far since I'm from Boston and, hopefully, we get to the Superbowl. I'd like to play the Packers since they're my second favorite team. The only problem is the NFC is like the national league in baseball. It's almost pointless, because as good as the Packers or Cowboys are in the NFC, I can't see them beating The Patriots, Colts or even the Steelers from the AFC

11-08-2007, 03:59 AM	#26
Mister Sinister Less Talk, More Rokk! Posts: 3,555	Miami will lose by 17

11-09-2007, 04:55 PM	#28
#1-norm-fan Resident drug enabler Posts: 45,473	Green Bay deserves more respect but in no way should they be above Dallas in any power polls. Dallas has been more dominant and looked more crisp. Also, Dallas had a much, MUCH more mistake filled game against Buffalo than Green Bay did against Chicago and they still found a way to win it.

11-13-2007, 02:04 AM	#31
Ninti the Mad Mad as in crazy, dumbass Posts: 27,739	Respect is earned on the field.

11-13-2007, 03:05 AM	#34
Fignuts Hey Mister! Posts: 54,952	They didn't find a way to beat Buffalo. Buffalo stopped playing defense with 3 minutes left in the game, and handed them the win.

11-13-2007, 03:33 AM	#37
Cooler Tom Schuler Sleepy Bitch Posts: 6,336	Don't make me do a dramatic reading of my own post.

11-13-2007, 03:38 AM	#38
Cooler Tom Schuler Sleepy Bitch Posts: 6,336	#1-wwf-fan, all you've been doing in this thread is telling people that what they say makes no sense. Either make a point of your own or shut the fuck up.