02-04-2017, 10:41 PM | #81 |
Quark is Less Impressed.
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02-04-2017, 11:12 PM | #82 |
MVP Mark
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02-04-2017, 11:56 PM | #83 |
I'm a loner, Dottie...
Posts: 3,069
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When you make objective statements based solely on your own opinion you most certainly are wrong. If you prefer Charlotte that's fine, but to say she's objectively "leaps and bounds" ahead of everyone else is just outright false.
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02-04-2017, 11:59 PM | #84 |
MVP Mark
Posts: 16,447
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So my statements are false? Which mean yours are correct? But making these statements on opinions (which is all this is) isn't right? Do you understand? Probably not but it's there for you to figure out.
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02-05-2017, 12:05 AM | #85 |
Quark is Less Impressed.
Posts: 38,371
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Charlotte is the queen.
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02-05-2017, 12:13 AM | #86 |
b/c 5 is better than 4
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She's all right. Not nearly as good as the other 4 Horsewomen, but she has the ability to connect to the audience. I bet she sells more merch than any other woman on the roster other than the Bellas. Just for that alone she should stick around
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02-05-2017, 12:30 AM | #87 | |
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You point out that Nia and Emmalina are the only ones who can replace her -- those are the girls that are going to be getting pushes on RAW very soon, I hate to break it to ya. If they are getting heel pushes, Charlotte as a babyface makes more sense, not less. I don't really know what you mean about the Emmalina momentum stuff. She hasn't debuted yet. They're running up the time on her impending return, but that is keeping things on ice until they are ready to have her show up. I don't really see how you can evaluate her momentum at this point -- she's not even back with this new gimmick yet. Wait and see how she is presented and what they do with her. Will they fuck it up? Probably. But I don't think you can say "Nah, she's done" before they have even debuted her and put her over anyone. The thing is that girls like Nikki Bella, Alicia Fox, Alexa Bliss and Carmella are still around. We still have Divas. A girl who can make that their gimmick is going to thrive over them all. That's where the heat is -- a girl who embraces the old tropes of women's wrestling that the new girls are trying to move away from. It makes her the adversary of women's wrestling. It's why Eva Marie was getting so much heat. Emmalina could potentially be like Eva Marie except with wrestling skill. I'd have her come out and declare herself Divas Champion, fuck it. You are still marketing Divas with Total Divas after all. They can book to children all they want, but they're mainly watched by older men. Kids don't actually go for the shit they are putting forward. This is just my anecdotal experience versus yours, but just because you put a girl in bright colors and have her spout affirming messages doesn't mean that kids are going to think it is "cool." That's condescending and assumes that children can't handle depth and nuance. |
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02-05-2017, 12:35 AM | #88 | |
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02-05-2017, 12:36 AM | #89 |
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Bayley was already selling more merchandise than any of the other women were when she was in NXT though. It'll be interesting to see if she sells more now that she has an even wider presence, or whether her persona peters out.
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02-05-2017, 03:27 AM | #90 |
I'm a loner, Dottie...
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Okay, I'll bite. How exactly is Charlotte objectively "leaps and bounds" better than the rest of the roster. Please enlighten me. You can see based on their actual work that Charlotte is definitely better than most of the other women, but where is this stat that says she's so far ahead? I've been watching pretty much every week since she premiered on the main roster and I haven't seen anything that indicates this, but maybe I missed it somewhere. Please enlighten me.
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02-05-2017, 03:50 AM | #91 | |
I'm a loner, Dottie...
Posts: 3,069
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Um, you're the one that pointed those two out as replacements. I never said anything about replacing Charlotte, and in fact I think the idea of replacing her is silly. She's the perfect top heel for the division hands down. Why mess with a good thing? Nia isn't ready, and even when she is ready she's got a built in ceiling because quite frankly monsters are always just obstacles for heroes. She'll never be the top heel in the company. She'll be that monster that the triumphant face overcomes, or the bruiser the real top heel like Charlotte hires as muscle. On the topic of Emma. She's got no momentum. You act like people are just gonna forget about all the previous stuff she's done. You act like she'll just be starting with a new slate and that's just not true. She's still gonna be Emma to the masses and no amount of fake model nonsense is gonna change that. Bray Wyatt managed to do it but that's because he is just a genius at his craft. How many others have been repackaged in this way after such a mediocre career and actually succeeded? Remember Tensai? That was years of absence and it still didn't work. People aren't that forgetful despite what the WWE seems to believe these days. I will agree that that sort of gimmick could work pretty well, but Emma isn't the one to do it though. Also I think you're giving way too much credit to Eva Marie's heat. She wasn't getting heel heat, dude, she was getting "get the hell off my tv" heat. Finally on the last topic. Um, it doesn't really matter if there are more grown men watching (though I'd like to see some actual evidence of this statement.) The fact of the matter is kids are the ones buying the merchandise and making WWE their money. The smarks and dirty old men like us aren't where the money's at. If we were WWE would abandoned PG and start listening to our misguided cries for a return to the attitude era. I've seen countless guys on this forum say how embarassed they'd be to wear a wrestling shirt in public. Meanwhile I've seen dozens of kids rocking backpacks, shirts, and god knows what else without batting an eyelash. While WWE is slipping it's not because they're marketing to the wrong demographic, it's because they're just inept at making their product. Also I'm a bit insulted that you'd accuse me of thinking kids can't handle nuance and depth when I've been a major proponent and defender of the ability of children in the past on this very forum. Saying that Bayley's gimmick or any other gimmick isn't capable of having depth is the truly insulting statement, especially when your alternative is a model gimmick and turning the prototypical "I was born better than you" character into a good guy. All of these gimmicks are capable of depth, but not the way WWE is handling them. It has nothing to do with the gimmick and everything to do with presentation and writing. Both of which WWE is completely inept at. |
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02-05-2017, 03:57 AM | #92 | |
I'm a loner, Dottie...
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02-05-2017, 12:00 PM | #93 |
Stickman
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It is so obvious that Chorolette is way better than almost every other woman. If anybody thinks Sasha, Bayley, Bliss, Emma is close you don't get it. The one who is close wrestlingwise is Natalya, who also is a little sloppy and awkward when she moves. Charolette isn't clunky and awkward in the ring like women usually are which is impressive due to her height. To say she is floundering is rediculous.
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02-05-2017, 12:57 PM | #94 | |
MVP Mark
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You could count the amount of flops or clunky moves each woman wrestler does though Charlotte is by far the smoothest one. |
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02-05-2017, 02:53 PM | #95 |
Quark is Less Impressed.
Posts: 38,371
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Her instagram is the only slight I could give to Charlotte. Does way too much stuff to point out she's playing a character. Kayfabe is dead but this level of exposure is still awkward and off-putting.
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02-05-2017, 03:10 PM | #96 |
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The women wrestlers now seem terrible. That Alexa Bliss bird is bangin but the rest have got nothing on the braids of old like Trish, Stacey, Torrie etc.
Bayley is prob the ugliest though. |
02-05-2017, 03:20 PM | #97 |
Quark is Less Impressed.
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They couldn't have a good match though and Trish wasnt as good as people remember.
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02-05-2017, 04:22 PM | #98 |
King K Cool
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Nah, Trish was really good.
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02-05-2017, 04:22 PM | #99 |
King K Cool
Posts: 28,472
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Maybe not at first, but she did get really good.
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02-05-2017, 04:43 PM | #100 |
MVP Mark
Posts: 16,447
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Trish was really good. Also had the best female storyline ever with Mickie.
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02-05-2017, 04:44 PM | #101 | |
I'm a loner, Dottie...
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02-05-2017, 04:46 PM | #102 |
I'm a loner, Dottie...
Posts: 3,069
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Trish by the end was definitely great, but she didn't hit that point until really late in her career. Also lol at Ruien saying her storyline with Mickie was "the best female storyline ever."
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02-05-2017, 04:55 PM | #103 |
Spammy Certified
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Cant think of a great female storyline.
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02-05-2017, 05:10 PM | #104 |
MVP Mark
Posts: 16,447
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I don't think you know the difference between a fact and opinion.
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02-05-2017, 05:11 PM | #105 |
MVP Mark
Posts: 16,447
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I also don't know who those people are.
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02-05-2017, 05:13 PM | #106 |
MVP Mark
Posts: 16,447
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But yes, if you believe someone is better than someone else that is your opinion. It does not make it right or wrong. To you though that person is better.
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02-05-2017, 05:27 PM | #107 |
THE GOOD SON
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I heard she's the backstage skank. They call her "blow job Bayley". They make her wear a bag with a hole cut out of it for her mouth because the sight of her revolting face makes guys go limp.
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02-05-2017, 05:41 PM | #108 |
I'm a loner, Dottie...
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02-05-2017, 05:49 PM | #109 |
MVP Mark
Posts: 16,447
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Sure..... it's rare I watch tv or movies. When I do its 9n Netflix and I don't bother to learn anyone's actual name. But keep on wasting your life keeping up with everyone else on what they do.
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02-05-2017, 05:50 PM | #110 |
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Bayley is ok. I don't watch Raw, so I'm not sure what's going on with her
I will say that off the 4 horsewomen, she was the most bland to me. She definitely has a natural charisma to her, but so do the other 3. Becky has a better look, Charlotte has maybe the best look and overall ability, with Sasha being a little of both. Bayley always came off as the least able of the 4, whether it be on the mic or in the ring. |
02-05-2017, 05:54 PM | #111 |
Large Marge sent me
Posts: 32,245
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Someone find that talking smack or whatever clip where they asked Bayley why she should get a title shot (basically, cut a promo like it's the first day of media training) and she's just like "uhhh, cuz I'm good enough" and Booker T just tears her a new asshole in the nicest way possible telling her that was bullshit and she should be able to do better.
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02-05-2017, 05:57 PM | #112 |
Large Marge sent me
Posts: 32,245
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I still think Bayley can be a female John Cena type but she's never been a favorite of mine. Just kinda floundering around without any personality right now is killing her though. She's not really connecting with the main roster audience. Her car dealership blow up things have more of a personality than her right now.
I want her to succeed but right now I'm just waiting for the Raw after WM when Charlotte cuts a "nobody can beat me on a big stage" promo and Asuka ' s music hits and the crowd goes ape shit. |
02-05-2017, 06:11 PM | #113 |
Loque Ja
Posts: 87,867
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Charlotte has been the most "successful" of the four horsewomen on the main roster because she has had character growth/development...... at first people "didn't care", but then they got to see her heel turn, and her arrogance slowly growing, and kicking Ric Flair to the curb, etc......
While with the other three it is pretty much "here they are, they were good on NXT, cheer them!" but without the casual fan who doesn't watch NXT getting to see all the character development/growth that they had in NXT to get people that much invested in them....... |
02-05-2017, 06:22 PM | #114 |
Large Marge sent me
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Sasha ' s done pretty well for herself. Like really well. Becky was doing well for a bit but Kevin Dunn hates her so I guess that's why she's just there now. I still think the quick Becky SD championship win took out alot of the wind from her sails. That first title win has to be a big ass deal. They didn't treat it as such.
Not sure how you can say Sasha is generic when she's been the priciple opponent for Charlotte for the last few months doing HIAC and Iron Man matches to boot. |
02-05-2017, 06:22 PM | #115 |
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How's Becky been doing on Smackdown? I know she was pushed as their top female, and dropped the belt to Alexa. Has she gotten decent time to develop her personality?
I remember reading Smackdown had a couple of running storylines for the girls. |
02-05-2017, 06:27 PM | #116 | |
Loque Ja
Posts: 87,867
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Becky and American Alpha both had "anti-climactic" first title wins (Alpha way more so than Becky) I remember The Usos also had a very anti-climactic first tag team title win...... |
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02-05-2017, 06:35 PM | #117 |
Large Marge sent me
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Usos won the titles in front of a rabid smarky Chicago crowd. It was kind of a big deal.
American Alpha yes. This is the problem with having 2 tag titles/ 2 women's titles, etc. |
02-05-2017, 06:47 PM | #118 |
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I've been saying since the split, the smart money was to have the tag and women's division be brand exclusive. Creates greater roster depth to run feuds away from the title to help build up characters and momentum.
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02-05-2017, 06:49 PM | #119 |
Large Marge sent me
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Yah....why are the cruiserweights exclusive to Raw? Kayfabe. I get it, it's a 3 hour show.
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02-05-2017, 07:03 PM | #120 |
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Do the cruisers get any screen time away from the title? 205 live or moving them to Smackdown seems like it'd be better than giving them to Raw.
I imagine regardless of how they split the rosters, the lackluster writing would sink the ship regardless |