Who is More Correct About the Youth Movement: Jericho or Nash? [Archive]

Next Big Thing

10-22-2010, 06:35 PM

From the front page:

Chris Jericho has taken to his Twitter account to address Kevin Nash’s recent comments on WWE’s “youth movement.” Nash said that he believes that it is a mistake because the younger talent doesn’t know how to draw money. “You’re basically going to wait six, seven years to get any return on it (investing in younger stars), and I don’t think the business can wait that long,” Nash said. Jericho tweeted, “Nashs interview was so short sighted and indicative of the entire “WCW” attitude. The WWEs Youth movement is a mistake? Ask Rock, Goldberg and John Cena if it took them six or seven years before they drew money. Six or seven months maybe…People want to see something new”

Volare

10-22-2010, 06:43 PM

Tazz Dan

10-22-2010, 06:48 PM

Yeah I totally agree with Jericho, new fresh stars are what we need. What happens in 6-7 years time when the 'older' guys retire or go away? You're left with a group of guys with no push and then we're meant to believe they're great?

Jeritron

10-22-2010, 07:02 PM

Jericho. I still guess I see where Nash is coming from but he's extraordinarily wrong. He should talk too, since he got his push during a WWF youth movement.
Maybe what he says could be applied to TNA, but certainly not WWE. I disagree with it in general though. Even TNA would have benefited by now if they'd stay the course with any of their pushes.

VSG

10-22-2010, 07:26 PM

Why are you quoting from the front page anyway?

MoFo

10-22-2010, 07:33 PM

Nash.

You honestly think people would rather have Jack Swagger v Evan Bourne over Kurt Angle v The Rock one more time?

Emperor Smeat

10-22-2010, 07:39 PM

Jericho although Nash isn't completely incorrect either. Jericho's idea works the best when a company is coming off a big star period since it needs youth to either survive (ex. WCW) or to set up the next era (ex. WWE).

A good mix of some youth being quickly pushed with another being given a slower development means a wrestling company can take care of both the short term and long term plans.

Next Big Thing

10-22-2010, 07:41 PM

I can kind of see where Nash is coming from though. I think one of the reasons why some people might be down on wrestling is because those transitional characters to bridge the gap from one era to another aren't there.

Sure WCW had Nash, Hall, and other guys that appealed to a younger crowd, but I think Hogan, Flair, and Savage were links to the previous era and brought calm in the wake of change and still could perform (unlike the Hogan and Flair of today). WWE doesn't really have that. Guys who would be this generation's Hogan or Flair like Rock, Angle or even Lesnar by this point in his career either are doing other things or are with another company.

Troelar

10-22-2010, 07:45 PM

Nash.

You honestly think people would rather have Jack Swagger v Evan Bourne over Kurt Angle v The Rock one more time?

I believe a company can only survive so long on Angle Vs Rock!

Having younger stars pushed more will not only add more variety, but also make it easier for the company to identify who they want to build up as the next BIG stars.

Jericho is right in my opinion, but you shouldn't of course but younger over older simply to do - it should be a dynamic and evolving process.

teamXtremist

10-22-2010, 07:48 PM

youth doesnt matter if the youngsters dont amount to anything only time will tell i guess

Stickman

10-22-2010, 08:21 PM

Jericho

Nash can't let go of "his spot."

dhellova guy

10-22-2010, 08:34 PM

I think we all agree that Nash is short-sighted, and Jericho is right. The best way for the "legends" to stay relevent is to put the new guys over, so that the business can continue into the future.

Nash wouldn't be where he is today if people hadn't helped him get over, and he wouldn't be wrestling today if those old-timers that got him over wanted to hold onto their "spot".

There is always going to be a group of fans who will want to see the old guys. I still mark out every time Roddy Piper comes back. I would lose my shit if Randy Savage ever got back into the ring. At the same time, these guys cant carry a company for an extended period of time. WCW proved this. Nash knows it too, I bet.

dronepool

10-22-2010, 08:36 PM

Jericho although Nash isn't completely incorrect either..

Aguakate

10-22-2010, 08:40 PM

Jericho

Nash can't let go of "his spot."

Nash has the mindset of the veteran who can't stand the thought of a young wrestler coming up and getting a shot to be big and perhaps overshadow him. That's why it is said that he booked himself to beat Goldberg for the WCW Title, ending his undefeated streak, as well.

So we shouldn't be suprised that he has that opinion.

Jericho left WCW because, being a young guy, he wasn't given opportunities to become bigger, so he left. WCW was being run by Nash and Hogan and Bischoff, so he knows what he's talkin about, as well, and also understands why Nash is saying what he is.

I agree with Jericho all the way. I love Nash, but he's wrong on this one.

SOCCER LEGS

10-22-2010, 09:12 PM

nash sucks, has always sucked

Droford

10-22-2010, 09:19 PM

Nash is correct in terms of how TNA is handling things..which goes to show why they're heavily relying on older established stars.

Jericho is correct in terms of how WWE is handling things, which goes to show how they're still running pretty strong despite losing some big name veterans over the past year (HHH, HBK, Taker for a time, Jericho)

Aguakate

10-22-2010, 09:29 PM

WWE is building guys that will be at the top of the business, and will carry the company, for years to come. They're being smart. They know HBK left, Undertaker isn't what he used to be and will not be around much longer, and Triple H isn't either. So they are doing the right thing. And they're not building guys so they can be big in the future, they are building guys and making them stars RIGHT NOW, so that the fans will begin to familiarize with them immediately.

erickman

10-22-2010, 09:30 PM

Jericho, his words have proven it already. If you want an example, take a look at Wade Barrett, Daniel Bryan, and Kaval. Coming in fresh this year and already making a big impact in the WWE. Bryan with the US title and in the Biggest Summerslam match this year. Barrett is headlining his second PPV, and Kaval is getting his rise from the fans from being that guy who doesn't give up (as younger fans can relate to and get behind).

your point with with wade is right but bryan and kaval have been at it 10 years and would be more in line with nash. now if you would have said wade shamus and swager that would be in like with jericho.

Volare

10-22-2010, 09:49 PM

This is about getting new guys over quickly in WWE, not elsewhere. It's about building the company.

bigslimjj

10-22-2010, 11:01 PM

The Miz,Kofi,Morrison,Swagger and others have been there for years now.It's their time.They jumped the gun incorrectly with Swagger,but correctly with Sheamus.They are throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks.Id have to argue that TNA has been using their older stars to push the younger ones for a while now.Flair has helped like 10 young wrestlers and now Hogan is helping them as well.He helped Abyss,Sting helped Abyss.Nash gave lethal the Black Machismo gimmick,he seconded Joe,and he kind of helped put The MCMG together.I think WWE is pushing the really fresh guys way too soon,and holding back the ones that should be on top.C.M. Punk should main event every ppv,so should Christian,and MVP is long over due for a bigger push.

crusnik

10-22-2010, 11:35 PM

:y:Nash has the mindset of the veteran who can't stand the thought of a young wrestler coming up and getting a shot to be big and perhaps overshadow him. That's why it is said that he booked himself to beat Goldberg for the WCW Title, ending his undefeated streak, as well.

So we shouldn't be suprised that he has that opinion.

Jericho left WCW because, being a young guy, he wasn't given opportunities to become bigger, so he left. WCW was being run by Nash and Hogan and Bischoff, so he knows what he's talkin about, as well, and also understands why Nash is saying what he is.

I agree with Jericho all the way. I love Nash, but he's wrong on this one.

agreed :y:

Kane Knight

10-23-2010, 12:34 AM

Nash.

You honestly think people would rather have Jack Swagger v Evan Bourne over Kurt Angle v The Rock one more time?

Except they can't have Angle/Rock anymore, and that's kind of the point.

WWE's not getting rid of its top names, either. But there's a certain level of attrition. Triple H out with injury, Michaels retiring, Batista (and he was drawing, like him or not) being a bitch, etc.

WWE has certainly pushed younger guys, but they're already starting to feel that vacuum. Mysterio, Taker, Trips, etc. are all guys I don't expect to see around that much longer. Could be wrong, but WWE are looking to the future, rather than waiting for every big name to be gone. Or their drawing power diminished.

I really have to agree with Jericho one way or another, here. I'm not particularly sure WWE is normally far sighted, but in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.

The Pope

10-23-2010, 12:49 AM

I think they are both right. Some wrestlers have great potential but if rushed can be destroyed completely. Then there is some guys who are ready immdiately like Sheamus, Barrett, Danielson, Punk...

Londoner

10-23-2010, 01:10 AM

Nash.

You honestly think people would rather have Jack Swagger v Evan Bourne over Kurt Angle v The Rock one more time?

That would be nothing more than a classic match at Wrestlemania. Once its over though, what then?

Damian Rey

10-23-2010, 03:59 AM

Nash.

You honestly think people would rather have Jack Swagger v Evan Bourne over Kurt Angle v The Rock one more time?

Outside of what's already been said in response, you have to consider the demographic and overall knowledge of today's live audiences.

Most of these kids who populate the audience these days are unlikely to know that Duane Johnson was, at some point, a WWE wrestler. How could also account for how many of these new generation fans know who Kurt Angle is.

The fan base is changing and has gone extremely young. Both The Rock and Kurt Angle are likely irrelevant in the eyes of the current generation of fans.

Rammsteinmad

10-23-2010, 05:34 AM

I agree with Jericho BUT I wish they wouldn't just give up on people who are over 34. Some people like Christian and Regal are still fantastic wrestlers, but sadly it's too late for them.

Of course, people like Triple H, Undertaker and Kane are alright though.

Rammsteinmad

10-23-2010, 05:36 AM

Outside of what's already been said in response, you have to consider the demographic and overall knowledge of today's live audiences.

I'm pretty sure wwe.com had that 'Truth about WWE' video recently that said something like '74% of our audience are males aged between 18-34' or something like that.

#BROKEN Hasney

10-23-2010, 05:36 AM

I'll wait for Mark Jindraks take on the matter.

Nicky Fives

10-23-2010, 08:02 AM

edyhdrawde

10-23-2010, 08:03 AM

Both side have merit. I think you need the old guys to put over the young guys.

Kane Knight

10-23-2010, 08:59 AM

Rammsteinmad

10-23-2010, 09:42 AM

Is that when they're planning Christians first title run? :(

Next Big Thing

10-23-2010, 09:47 AM

Is that when they're planning Christians first title run? :(

TNA is...

Eklipse

10-23-2010, 10:27 AM

I mostly agree with Jericho.

Nash says the youth doesn't know how to draw...
Well...I think it's good that they are getting pushes and learning while there are still big names.
Better to start them now than to wait until there are no veterans to help them at all.

Kane Knight

10-23-2010, 10:29 AM

Is that when they're planning Christians first title run? :(

What are you talking about? He was ECW champ. That's totally a World title!

/pre-revisionist smarks.

erickman

10-23-2010, 01:00 PM

Is that when they're planning Christians first title run? :(

he should have stayed in tna, i heard even after he came back to wwe vince saw him and still thought he was a midcard with nothing to him. i guess gail kim has the same problem.

Stickman

10-23-2010, 01:01 PM

Did Kevin Nash draw?

Rammsteinmad

10-23-2010, 01:37 PM

Kevin Nash is great at drawing...

... backstage heat. :shifty:

10-23-2010, 01:48 PM

Nash.

You honestly think people would rather have Jack Swagger v Evan Bourne over Kurt Angle v The Rock one more time?
The thing is...YOU CAN'T HAVE ANGLE v ROCK ONE MORE TIME!

Dunno how many times this has to be said but it's a pretty obvious statement to make. Angle has maybe a couple more years in him and Rock isn't interested in wrestling. Full stop.

I know that's one example, but the bigger picture is this: if they DON'T build up young guys as legit contender NOW (as in, mixing it up with the established guys like Jericho, HHH, Taker, etc) then, when those established guys are done you find yourself left with a whole company of midcarders - guys that the audience don't buy as Main Eventers. And the company is screwed.

WWE should be putting the likes of Sheamus, Swagger, Barrett, Bryan, Kaval over their top guys so that they can be top guys in the future. They can't afford to be in a too little, too late situation.

10-23-2010, 01:49 PM

Also, Jericho. Not just on this but on any subject.

erickman

10-23-2010, 01:49 PM

Did Kevin Nash draw?

i think he did for wcw but not for wwe, when we still see nwo shirts 10 years after there last wcw run that was a draw.

10-23-2010, 01:50 PM

The nWo might have been a draw but there's no way Nash can claim that as him drawing.

erickman

10-23-2010, 02:00 PM

i don't know the outsiders were a draw an you can't give it all to last call hall.

Joesgonnakillyou

10-23-2010, 02:05 PM

Jericho because Nash should fucking die.

I hate Kevin Nash.

Kane Knight

10-23-2010, 05:50 PM

Also, Jericho. Not just on this but on any subject.

I'd take Nash's advice for rehabbing a muscle tear over Jericho's.

Mr. Nerfect

10-23-2010, 08:24 PM

Kevin Nash is good at drawing graphs.

I do see what Nash means, to some degree. But there needs to be that creation of new stars while you have current stars with heat to transfer. If you let The Undertaker retire without really putting anyone over, then what a waste, you know? But then again, a lot of guys who get pushed too early don't end up staying there, and that can damage their long-term credibility.

Right now, Sheamus, Wade Barrett and even Jack Swagger (to some extent) feel like they belong in the main event scene. To be honest, I could see Kaval ending up there very soon, too. The WWE has done a good job with them. Barrett has gotten some clean wins over current WWE main events, Sheamus essentially "retired" Triple H and Swagger's Ankle Lock gets him some nice victories from time-to-time.

But guys like Rey Mysterio need to start thinking about putting over guys like Kofi Kingston, who have many years left to offer the business. That doesn't mean some of the older guys can't have some time at the top, either (Kane is currently World Heavyweight Champion, and it doesn't seem strange), but I've got to agree with Jericho.

John Cena is doing a really great job at balancing being a current star himself, and grooming the next generation. He's played ball, and he's allowed the Nexus guys to really shine in their feud with him. He's taken numerous falls to Justin Gabriel, put over Wade Barrett and this is truthfully the most interested I've been in Cena for ages. He'll no doubt win this feud, but given that Cena has got years left ahead of him, too - I think that's the right booking call.

Testicle

10-23-2010, 09:40 PM

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DLVH84

10-23-2010, 11:49 PM

I say both men have very accurate views on the youth movement. It's more of a double-edged sword, where it can be both positive and negative. And it's difficult to find a middle ground or a compromise that both sides can work together on.

Jakob Synn

10-24-2010, 12:27 AM

There is no right or wrong in this situation. I mean Nash has a point and so does Jericho. It's just a matter of what you believe in more. Do you want more veterens on your tv screen bringing in the money or do you want some young people who don't draw money right away but might in the future.

I mean you can get money now, or get lots of money in future, it's up to you?

For me, I agree with Jericho especially when it comes to the WWE. I mean they have the money to spend where they can develop that talent and not lose out right away, but TNA or any other organization might not be the same.

McLegend

10-24-2010, 12:29 AM

The nWo might have been a draw but there's no way Nash can claim that as him drawing.

There was 28,000 people in the Garden the night Nash won the title from Bob Backlund,

Jeritron

10-24-2010, 12:30 AM

If they were there while Bob Backlund was champion in the 90s, they probably would have been there no matter what.

Next Big Thing

10-24-2010, 01:21 AM

Aguakate

10-24-2010, 01:30 AM

Nash was very over in the WWF at that time, there's no denying that. The fans started opening up to him when he started to have problems with HBK while he was his bodyguard, and then (like Ric Flair says) "The Machine" got behind him and pushed him to the top. But before then, he already had been Tag Team Champ, IC Champ, so they had been "testing the waters", so to speak, to see how fans responded to him.

So for him to not be open to new guys getting their chance, when he himself was a new guy that got a break by beating a legend for the belt (in a manner in which the legend came out looking horrible, by losing in like 8 seconds), is hypocritical.

James Steele

10-24-2010, 01:31 AM

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hntojuBOgo0/R0S9N0zwPsI/AAAAAAAABNo/AVyU-8-88wM/s320/WWF-Grey-Wolf-Poster.jpg

Mr. Nerfect

10-24-2010, 08:28 AM

Diesel's first run in WWF lasted 2 and a half years. In that time he won the IC belt, tag belts, and held the WWF Heavyweight title for almost an entire year and main evented Wrestlemania. I'd say he was pretty over and a big draw for them during that time.

Isn't Kevin Nash statistically one of the worst drawing WWE Champions of all-time? To no fault of Nash, the WWE was down at the time, I believe -- and Nash was a huge part of the Attitude era boom, but I don't think Diesel was technically a huge draw when it came to gates, PPV buys, merchandising etc.

Kane Knight

10-24-2010, 11:39 AM

Right now, Sheamus, Wade Barrett and even Jack Swagger (to some extent) feel like they belong in the main event scene. To be honest, I could see Kaval ending up there very soon, too. The WWE has done a good job with them. Barrett has gotten some clean wins over current WWE main events, Sheamus essentially "retired" Triple H and Swagger's Ankle Lock gets him some nice victories from time-to-time.

Yeah, I haven't once looked at Barrett and thought he was actually shoved down our throats. He seems a natural, and his push is pretty cool.

WWE has made plenty of wrong turns, but they've got a few that feel right. and really, that's how we get our big breakout stars.

There is no right or wrong in this situation.

The question is "who is more correct?"

think of it like an SAT question.

Anyway, money now and later are not mutually exclusive.

Next Big Thing

10-24-2010, 12:23 PM

I think Barrett's push comes off natural because his main adversary, Cena, isn't being buried in order to get him over. Every time Nexus or Wade one upped Cena, he came back with either a witty promo or a win.

Even when he had to join Nexus and be Wade's manservant, it wasn't due to a clean win, and the next night he got to take out Tarver. It's much more compelling than just having one guy come out, clean house, and hit his finisher every Raw or Smackdown in order to get over.

DrA

10-24-2010, 12:34 PM

Both make convincing points about the Youth Movement. I think they should meet up and find a middle ground.

Testicle

10-24-2010, 03:56 PM

There was 28,000 people in the Garden the night Nash won the title from Bob Backlund,

Lol, you can't fit 28,000 in the Garden.

DAMN iNATOR

10-24-2010, 04:36 PM

Jericho wins.

Kane Knight

10-24-2010, 07:09 PM

Jericho wins.

He did make Goldberg tap out backstage.

DLVH84

10-24-2010, 07:47 PM

He did make Goldberg tap out backstage.

Yeah. That was awesome. Greenberg chickened out when Jericho first challenged him.

RiX1024

10-25-2010, 11:28 AM

Jericho's view is more correct because all Jericho cares about is putting younger talents over and they work hard for their spot as for Kevin Nash, all he cares about is protecting his spot and the other older wrestlers and the young guys have to earn their spot. all i can say is that 90% of the younger talent are miles better than Nash.

Kane Knight

10-25-2010, 11:52 AM