What is workrate anyway?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Is there a clear definition? What does it mean to you? Is it important?

I always hear the term thrown around, and the best I can make of it is that is has something to do with how often somebody wrestles. That doesn't sound right, though. Does it have something to do with how good their matches are on average? Is it just a bullshit term created by people who think they know everything?

DISCUSS

[The Macrem]

Contribution to the match

If A = wrestler 1
and B = wrestler 2
and C = the energy in a match

when plotted on a graph something awesome happens.

Forward this to ten friends to reveal.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Settle down, The Macrem.

[Hanso Amore]

I think it is related to how many Unnecessary Flips per match you hit.

Or something about throwing out at least 15-20 moves that could be considered finishers.

[The Macrem]

Bob Backlund used to get a lot of appreciation for his workrate. I am unsure if he had ten friends, however.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I think he was at least friends with Jonathon Taylor Thomas.

[The Macrem]

Hmmm perhaps you're right, he may have claimed JTT as three seperate individuals.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Definition: The performance level a wrestler puts into their matches judged by both a combination of skill and effort.

[CSL]

only people that seem to put any stock in "workrate" or band it around that way like it means something tend to use/accept it as a replacement for learning a bit about timing, pacing and structure and/or developing a personality.

i.e Davey Richards has fantastic workrate because he has great cardio which means he can cram even more random unnecessary stuff into a 9 minute match than your average bland guy in kickpads

[Rammsteinmad]

Workrate for me is basically how much you put into something.

You could be given a shitty angle but still put everything you have into it to make it entertaining for people. Then of course, you have people like John Cena who bust their asses pretty much every waking minute for their profession.

On the other hand you had the NWO in WCW, who were lazy and happy to just keep repeating the same process every week with no regard to what people 'want' or how it effects others.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Hmm, I guess it's KINDA making sense, but it hardly sounds tangible at all.

[The Macrem]

It is intangible.

[Rammsteinmad]

Is it important?

Wrestler A has an amazing workrate.
Wrestler B has an awful workrate.

Who looks better?

I'd say :yes: it is important.

[Anybody Thrilla]

But if it's intangible, how can you tell? Sometimes, people just suck, but they try really hard. Sometimes, people are awesome, but they're lazy. So who would have a better workrate? Somebody who sucks and tries really hard or somebody who's good but doesn't try at all?

[The Macrem]

I think I need to take you through the graph method once more.

[The Macrem]

Wrestler A has an amazing workrate.
Wrestler B has an awful workrate.

Who looks better?

I'd say :yes: it is important.

Please don't confuse the science. We were working on the basis of Wrestler 1 and 2.

[Rammsteinmad]

The person who sucks but tries hard. As I said in my original post, they put more into it.

The lazy guy may be great, but sometimes just 'being great' comes down to luck. That same person may suffer an injury and may not be the same when they return. How far will their poor workrate take them then?

[Rammsteinmad]

Other than that explanation ABT, I'd say you're overthinking 'workrate' and should stfu. :foc:

(Not really, though).

[Anybody Thrilla]

Would you rather have Carlito or Kelly Kelly?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Definition: The performance level a wrestler puts into their matches judged by both a combination of skill and effort.

I was going to say something along these lines. It is kind of the same on the rugby pitch... the word "workrate" is often used. It's just amount of work you do and the effectiveness of said work.

[The Macrem]

It's merely an insult for people that are perceived not to be pulling their weight or a compliment for somebody that is performing above expectation.

[Rammsteinmad]

Would you rather have Carlito or Kelly Kelly?

Come on, that's not fair! Carlito lost to Triple H in a match where No DQ applied to Carlito! Can you blame the guy for losing a bit of that fire?

[Nicky Fives]

Definition: The performance level a wrestler puts into their matches judged by both a combination of skill and effort.

add "to get the most out of their opponents" to this and I 100% agree.....

[Testicle]

Work-rate doesn't exist. It doesn't mean anything. Those are facts.

[DLVH84]

Supreme Olajuwon and Nicky Fives definitely defined workrate accurately. I always hate it when someone gets lazy in the ring and sandbagging.

[bigslimjj]

It's the rate of speed I work my pecker back and fourth with. I have a VERY HIGH workrate.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Definition: The performance level a wrestler puts into their matches judged by both a combination of skill and effort.

This, pretty much. I think the problem people have though is when it comes to people like Davey Richards, and a lot of indy wrestlers, who put a ton of effort/energy into their matches, but do stupid shit (unnecessary moves, flips, etc), during their matches.

Davey Richards is a hard worker, and he busts his ass in the ring. However, he tries too hard to be stiff, and bust out tons of moves every match. Same thing with a lot of the Dragon Gate guys. They bust their asses, but their matches are ridiculous.

Compare them to someone like HBK though, who has superb "work rate" and is an amazing wrestler.

I guess what it comes down to is that you can have great workrate, but still be a shit wrestler. However, chances are, if your work rate sucks, your wrestling probably does too, with a few exceptions. Mainly guys like current day Mark Henry, who don't have to really bust their ass in a match, but still look great, because it goes well with the style/gimmick.

I think a good example of workrate is RVD. In the original ECW, he busted his ass, had great matches, and, to my understanding of the term, had a good work rate. However, in TNA, he just seems to go through a routine in his matches, and not really try, despite doing a lot of the same moves.

I guess it goes, in a sense, to passion. Who looks like they care, and who looks like they're just trying to get paid.

[Lock Jaw]

It's a combination of skill and concentration.

[parkmania]

It's a combination of skill and concentration.

No, that there's what you call domination...

[Testicle]

http://www.justin.tv/porc_inator/b/258802033

This is a link to a 2008 Al Snow shoot interview.

Somewhere in this thing Al answers the question to the thread. It is a very informative interview and I would suggest that all here on TPWW watch this at some point.

[Shisen Kopf]

Workrate is the number of hiptosses divided by the number of armbars times the number of sidewalk/Alabama slams.

[Anybody Thrilla]

What does he say? I don't feel like watching an entire interview right now.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Come on, that's not fair! Carlito lost to Triple H in a match where No DQ applied to Carlito! Can you blame the guy for losing a bit of that fire?

Yes. Everybody has lost to Triple H at some point. It's just a fact of life.

[St. Jimmy]

Work + Effort / Time.

[Testicle]

What does he say? I don't feel like watching an entire interview right now.


From what I remember he basically says its crap and means nothing.

You should make time for this though, I know you are a huge playa, but this deserves its time.

[Anybody Thrilla]

No need for personal shots. I'm just watching something else on TV right now. I wasn't saying I was too good for it.

[DaveBrawl]

No need for personal shots. I'm just watching something else on TV right now. I wasn't saying I was too good for it.

Why do you feel you're too good for a 3 year old Al Snow interview?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Why do you feel you're too good for a 3 year old Al Snow interview?

Well if you want me to be honest, SuperbrawlSteve's favorite interviews were at least two and a half years old with wrestlers who were decently popular for a bit before falling into cushy behind-the-scenes jobs, and I just can't put myself through the pain anymore. I miss that guy. :'(

[Anybody Thrilla]

AKA, shut the fuck up, Davebrawl. :foc:

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I got my definition off the internet btw. So clearly my response was the best and most correct.

[St. Jimmy]

Here's a video explaining what work rate is.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NKFzHvSFOns" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[DaveBrawl]

AKA, shut the fuck up, Davebrawl. :foc:

Like a knife in my chest.:'(

[Gertner]

It's something that Indie fans use to make a mess of a box of tissues.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

This, pretty much. I think the problem people have though is when it comes to people like Davey Richards, and a lot of indy wrestlers, who put a ton of effort/energy into their matches, but do stupid shit (unnecessary moves, flips, etc), during their matches.

Davey Richards is a hard worker, and he busts his ass in the ring. However, he tries too hard to be stiff, and bust out tons of moves every match. Same thing with a lot of the Dragon Gate guys. They bust their asses, but their matches are ridiculous.

Compare them to someone like HBK though, who has superb "work rate" and is an amazing wrestler.

I guess what it comes down to is that you can have great workrate, but still be a shit wrestler. However, chances are, if your work rate sucks, your wrestling probably does too, with a few exceptions. Mainly guys like current day Mark Henry, who don't have to really bust their ass in a match, but still look great, because it goes well with the style/gimmick.

I think a good example of workrate is RVD. In the original ECW, he busted his ass, had great matches, and, to my understanding of the term, had a good work rate. However, in TNA, he just seems to go through a routine in his matches, and not really try, despite doing a lot of the same moves.

I guess it goes, in a sense, to passion. Who looks like they care, and who looks like they're just trying to get paid.


this helps me with my rugby analogy (sorry i keep bring it back there). Working hard isn't enough to have a good workrate on the pitch or in the ring. If you're just running around like a maniac "working hard" but getting penalized and dropping balls and trying to do too many things, it's not an effective work rate. But if you have an understanding of where to be and what do when you're there, ie. are reading the game well and you do so consistantly throughout a match, it's an effective work rate.


Same goes for wrestling. Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart never did as many moves as Davey Richards, but they "read the game" well and worked hard within those parameters.

[MoFo]

The amount of kicks and chops ROH wrestlers do, because nobody in WWE has workrate obvs

[MoFo]

The better a guys workrate, the more boring they are