PG Discussion Thread

[Rock Bottom]

There's a TLDR version at the bottom.

It's clear that when it comes to opinions, even though there are some obvious trends on this board, there are a healthy amount of differences. Some of them come as a surprise to a lot of people. There were a lot of instances of this occurring in the Dolph Ziggler vs. The Miz thread. Enough that in the next round of Better Wrestler, people were still acknowledging the thought that maybe Ziggler should not have beaten The Miz.

It's easy for me to judge who's better, even if the decision was close. It's Dolph Ziggler. Why? Because I said so. That's a pretty stupid reason, right? Like most people, I chose the "short and sweet" approach. "So and so is better because of this and that." Then again, in order to truly explain why I voted the way I did, I would probably have to do a fair amount of typing. If I made such an assertion and truly explained myself to people who were wondering how The Miz could lose (he's better because they said so), if anyone bothered to reply, there would be a debate.

Sometimes this happens. Two or more people can have a healthy conversation, with opposing views, to at the very least, back up their claim and give weight and meaning to their opinion. Often times, this isn't going to happen. People will pick apart each other's posts, descend into useless drivel, and focus more on a poster rather than what they're saying or trying to say.

You might see something like this:

Ziggler has something Barrett doesn't have, it's called charisma!

You wouldn't know charisma if it BLEW A HUGE LOAD ALL OVER YOUR FACE, YOU MOTHER FUCKER, YOU!

Or maybe this:

They could have done more when CM Punk had so much momentum.

Just like the IWC to bitch about a main event push!

Point is, there are differences, but why? Everyone is entitled to their opinions. You're even entitled to opinions about opinions. People are often looking to share those opinions. You talk about wrestling on wrestling websites, right? Now, the angelic nature of human beings aside, sometimes it is just easier to call someone a moron. It represents a fundamental disagreement to such proportions that you have no choice but to call them stupid. The guy sitting at the other end might not be as stupid as you think. He just might have different criteria for forming his "unearthly" opinions or "bitching" about something.

Sadly, this doesn't really help defend against the deterioration of a perfectly debatable topic. Rather than fling poop at each other, it might help to know why we say the things we do and think what we think. It might also help not to be a complete Nazi about your own standards of wrestling, or the discussion thereof. I've been on both ends of the spectrum. And to be honest, I've realized that for the most point, I actually enjoy learning about the perceptions and experiences of other people more than I thought.

It's a lot more rewarding than shitting on a guy or arguing about something moronic and irrelevant. It's also much easier to get a healthy discussion going if you're not arguing with a bunch of people about who's stupid and who isn't. And every now and then, you're going to find yourself agreeing with people you usually don't.

Obviously, not everyone wants to sit there and write an essay about what they think, or why they think what someone said is complete bull shit. Like I said before, it's easier just to use "moron" or sarcasm. Sarcasm is fun. This is 2011, and Full House has been off the air for years. But for those of you who prefer to have a discussion absent of your standard bickering, or who happen to be in the "down swing" of manic-depressive behavior, do so in here.

I'm curious to see if this could work.

TLDR: Don't be a dick in this thread. If you feel you have something to contribute to a topic, or something to say; whether or not it is currently being discussed in another thread; and you want to do it without being completely derailed, do it in here. I would greatly appreciate it if a mod could find it in their HEART OF HEARTS to keep this thread "clean."

[Shisen Kopf]

The Miz is pretty good IMO. But he's no Bushwhacker Butch. He is a serious rassler.

[Rock Bottom]

Thank you Shisen Kopf. It takes a brave man to step up to the plate like this and show everyone that cyber bullying is not cool. I agree that The Miz is an outstanding performer with a bright future.

[Shisen Kopf]

When I do auto correct for Dolph Ziggler my iPhone turns it into Dolly silver. That should be his next manager. Get some FCW skank and give her that gimmick.

[XL]

So what do you actually want to discuss in here?

[Shisen Kopf]

We're discussing not being a prick to each other you fuckin tard!

[XL]

See I thought the point was to discuss something without being pricks to each other not to have a discussion about discussing without being pricks to each other.

Of course, you'd have realised that if you weren't a moron.

[Juan]

tl;dr

[XL]

Also, I totally thought this was gonna be a discussion about WWE's PG Rating.

[Shisen Kopf]

Get the fuck outta here! Anyway let's discuss rasslin. Woooo!!

[Jordan]

An example of WWE PG working?

Big Kev nearly kills Triple H with the Jacknife, if that move or other big bumps and head drops were overexposed right now the six replays on PPV wouldn't have meant anything.

The more WWE scales back in doses, the more impact when the mold is broken.

WWE PG isn't just for the good of kids, it's for the good of everyone who enjoys the business and want's it to evolve and succeed. The Attitude Era was a success because of the characters and their actions and words outside of the ring. WWE is trying to bring the focus back to the matches and titles, so that eventually a breakthrough character with shine through and break the mold.

[Blakeamus]

On the MIC
Miz > Ziggler

Wrestles LIKE A BOSS!
Ziggler > Miz

[XL]

An example of WWE PG working?

Big Kev nearly kills Triple H with the Jacknife, if that move or other big bumps and head drops were overexposed right now the six replays on PPV wouldn't have meant anything.

The more WWE scales back in doses, the more impact when the mold is broken.

WWE PG isn't just for the good of kids, it's for the good of everyone who enjoys the business and want's it to evolve and succeed. The Attitude Era was a success because of the characters and their actions and words outside of the ring. WWE is trying to bring the focus back to the matches and titles, so that eventually a breakthrough character with shine through and break the mold.
Methinks somebody didn't read the thread.

[Blakeamus]

I have always thought that the WWE's "PG Era" would be beneficial. You know another thing I think about is, should we even considered to label this WWE era the "PG Era"? Why not "Universe Era"? Or "Social Media Era" lol

[Xero]

That TLDR didn't explain the topic at all going by some of these replies.

[XL]

To my understanding, RB is making a plea to the Wrestling Forum to treat one another with a bit more respect and stay "on topic" or at least argue the point that is made in any given post rather than resort to name calling.

The idea of this thread (I believe) is to discuss "something" [yet to be determined] in a civilised manner.

Of course, with such a misleading title, the discussion has turned to talking about WWE's PG Rating.

[Xero]

I read the OP mostly and I still don't understand the topic. Are we trying to get non-shit-throwing discussions in this thread? In the forum in general? What does this have to do with PG?

[XL]

The thread is PG - as in no strong language (I guess) - not the topic of discussion.

We're waiting to hear from RB about what he wishes to discuss.

[XL]

Or, we're to kinda subscribe to this new ideology of not being dicks in the wrestling forum here and then spread it throughout our posting. Maybe.

[Xero]

Honestly, I think RB is just butthurt because a lot of people on the forum disagree with him and he can't let it go. He has to realize that he can voice his opinion, but especially on a forum like TPWW, if you go against certain mentalities you're going to get blasted. Take it, explain your viewpoint and move on if they resort to shit throwing. Shit throwing is apart of TPWW. Realistically, what RB wants would take a lot of moderation and pretty strict rules. And that's when the fun starts to deflate from the TPWW Experience^TM.

There are plenty of people on the forum more than willing to (and do) have a relatively intelligent conversation.

[Blakeamus]

It made me think of WWE PG so I gave my opinion.

[Lock Jaw]

Raw is Poopy

[DAMN iNATOR]

It made me think of WWE PG so I gave my opinion.

[Blakeamus]

JBL is Poopy

[Xero]

Rhodes is Cody

[Blakeamus]

Austin is Williams

[Hadouken]

HADOUKEN!

http://images.wikia.com/streetfighter/images/d/d2/RyuHadouken.png

[Xero]

Well shit. Nothing like a Hadouken to completely derail a thread.

[Blakeamus]

WoW! This thread just got #buried by the HADOUKEN!

[Jordan]

http://www.yojoe.com/archive/actfig/sf/filecard/guilesb.jpg

[XL]

It made me think of WWE PG so I gave my opinion.
Now I may be wrong here, but that's not how a discussion works.

[Blakeamus]

Also, I totally thought this was gonna be a discussion about WWE's PG Rating.

I guess we were confused.

[blak23]

Hilarious thread

[Blakeamus]

An example of WWE PG working?

Big Kev nearly kills Triple H with the Jacknife, if that move or other big bumps and head drops were overexposed right now the six replays on PPV wouldn't have meant anything.

The more WWE scales back in doses, the more impact when the mold is broken.

WWE PG isn't just for the good of kids, it's for the good of everyone who enjoys the business and want's it to evolve and succeed. The Attitude Era was a success because of the characters and their actions and words outside of the ring. WWE is trying to bring the focus back to the matches and titles, so that eventually a breakthrough character with shine through and break the mold.

I just took this as a discussion.

[Rock Bottom]

This thread is about anti-bullying. Where you can say and be anything you want without mean people coming along and judging you or your opinions. It doesn't matter what the topic is, because it's all about you.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Maybe we can braid each others hair after eery discussion?

[Xero]

This thread is about anti-bullying. Where you can say and be anything you want without mean people coming along and judging you or your opinions. It doesn't matter what the topic is, because it's all about you.

Fuck you.

#imaheelnotabully

[Rock Bottom]

Wow. I'm really disappointed in that language. If you feel the urge to say, "Fuck you," why not take it to the casual forum, where you can post it in a topic about cell phones and job interviews?

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Cunt that

[Corporate CockSnogger]

oh frak

[Xero]

Shit piss fuck cunt cocksucker motherfucker tits.

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[Xero]

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Rat shit, bat shit, dirty old twat.
69 assholes tied in a knot.
Hooray.
Lizardshit.
FUCK!

[Corporate CockSnogger]

I don't think Xero is taking this thread very seriously.

[Rock Bottom]

Xero posts George Carlin quotes. Finally, EVERYTHING MAKETH THENTH.

[Blakeamus]

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[tjmidnight420]

Wow. I'm really disappointed in that language. If you feel the urge to say, "Fuck you," why not take it to the casual forum, where you can post it in a topic about cell phones and job interviews?

Fella, this is TP-Dub's wrestling forum. Some of the people in casual tend to steer clear of this place. Fuck you isn't just a saying here, it's a way of life. You don't want flamed? Log off. Want intelligent discussion? Look through the flames. Alot of times the ones bashing you are some of the smartest of the lot. PG works for the reason stated above. Miz is great and so is Dolph. Punk and Orton are the goods. Cena? TNA? Adam Evans? If that's your thing lets discuss that, but it wont end well.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

I :heart: Rock Bottom. I think I'm going to delete every post in here but his, and then sticky this.

And by every post, I mean every post in the wrestling forum.

[XL]

This thread is about anti-bullying. Where you can say and be anything you want without mean people coming along and judging you or your opinions. It doesn't matter what the topic is, because it's all about you.
So this is the B.A. Star thread?

[dingdongyo]

i have always thought a pg rating could work to an adult advantage. the main reason i listen to morning terrestrial talk radio is to hear all the fun ways they dance around words and phrases they aren't allowed to say, push the limits and such. it adds a whole other dynamic to the discussion, which is the exact kind of dynamic that fat nerds like us are interested in: the one that makes us feel like we know more than we should. it's entertaining. i don't see why that couldn't work for wrestling. in some examples, it already is/has.

[XL]

Do people here honestly just jump into a thread and post their feelings on the matter they THINK the discussion is about without reading anything in the thread?

That seems odd to me.

[Rock Bottom]

Do people here honestly just jump into a thread and post their feelings on the matter they THINK the discussion is about without reading anything in the thread?

That seems odd to me.

This is a perfect example of how to get your point across without being a complete fuddy duddy.

[Rock Bottom]

i have always thought a pg rating could work to an adult advantage. the main reason i listen to morning terrestrial talk radio is to hear all the fun ways they dance around words and phrases they aren't allowed to say, push the limits and such. it adds a whole other dynamic to the discussion, which is the exact kind of dynamic that fat nerds like us are interested in: the one that makes us feel like we know more than we should. it's entertaining. i don't see why that couldn't work for wrestling. in some examples, it already is/has.

I really agree with you 100%.

[Kane Knight]

We're discussing not being a prick to each other you fuckin tard!

Oh shit, son. You are such a cyber bully.

Rock Bottom, if you're reading this: It gets better!

Do people here honestly just jump into a thread and post their feelings on the matter they THINK the discussion is about without reading anything in the thread?

That seems odd to me.

Seems awful presumptuous to me.

Given both the nature of threads on the internet, which rarely stay on topic, and the fact that there is prior content related to the value of the PG era in this thread, it's every bit as likely that people see more discussion value in the merits and drawbacks of the PG era than in the "hay guise, stop bing meen 2 eech uddr on teh internetz" portion.

And in that spirit (and fully knowing that's not what the explicit intentions of this thread were):

PG probably saved WWE.

I doubt WWE would have tanked into bankruptcy any time in the recent past, but it would have taken a severe hit had they not tried something new. The adult fanbase wasn't sustaining them at their prior level. They were, however, selling to kids in good numbers. With a more family friendly focus, they got sponsors back. They got parents watching with kids, parents willing to buy the merch, etc. they got a decent amount of goodwill with investors, and so on.

Sure, Cena got booed when he went child-friendly, but it was probably worth it from a business perspective. After all, very few people are naive enough to believe the fans in the arena are the sum total of the WWE "Universe."

On a related note, I like safer wrestling to some degree. I like the thought we might not have a rash of wrestlers dying from wrestling-related injuries in their 30s and 40s. Some of the restrictions are silly, but I think less focus on garbage wrestling benefits fans of all ages.

That said, it isn't hard to find fuckwads who will bitch about shit that's in their own best interest.

[Rock Bottom]

To be fair, Kane Knight, it isn't hard to find fuckwads anywhere, whether or not they bitch about things with their own interests in mind. But should we really call them fuckwads? FUCKWADS! FUCKWADS EVERYWHERE! I'm not allowed to call my Polish sister-in-law these things, so what gives me the right to be a bully!?

[tjmidnight420]

PG probably saved WWE.

I doubt WWE would have tanked into bankruptcy any time in the recent past, but it would have taken a severe hit had they not tried something new. The adult fanbase wasn't sustaining them at their prior level. They were, however, selling to kids in good numbers. With a more family friendly focus, they got sponsors back. They got parents watching with kids, parents willing to buy the merch, etc. they got a decent amount of goodwill with investors, and so on.

Sure, Cena got booed when he went child-friendly, but it was probably worth it from a business perspective. After all, very few people are naive enough to believe the fans in the arena are the sum total of the WWE "Universe."

On a related note, I like safer wrestling to some degree. I like the thought we might not have a rash of wrestlers dying from wrestling-related injuries in their 30s and 40s. Some of the restrictions are silly, but I think less focus on garbage wrestling benefits fans of all ages.

Well said. Also worth noting that with the way it was going before the PG turn, most people were getting burned out on all the over the top shit they were pulling week after week. Seven chair shots to the head has less of an impact when you've seen the same guy take those same seven chair shots on every show for the last month. The whole chair to the ankle thing seems to be working for Mark Henry because it hasn't been overused as a spot in the last ten years.

[Kane Knight]

To be fair, Kane Knight, it isn't hard to find fuckwads anywhere, whether or not they bitch about things with their own interests in mind. But should we really call them fuckwads? FUCKWADS! FUCKWADS EVERYWHERE! I'm not allowed to call my Polish sister-in-law these things, so what gives me the right to be a bully!?

Well said. Also worth noting that with the way it was going before the PG turn, most people were getting burned out on all the over the top shit they were pulling week after week. Seven chair shots to the head has less of an impact when you've seen the same guy take those same seven chair shots on every show for the last month. The whole chair to the ankle thing seems to be working for Mark Henry because it hasn't been overused as a spot in the last ten years.

I love how one guy's saying "well said, and the other's spazzing about bullying. TJ, why do you support bullying?

It's actually interesting, though. Even in the Attitude Era, there was a lot of discussion on here related to the fact that they couldn't keep pushing the limits like they were doing. I admit, I loved a lot of the Attitude Era's "holy shit" moment, but there was only so far they could push it. Some events were used relatively sparingly, but a lot of big spots were used so much, they lost all meaning.

Chair shots are certainly not the worst offender, but they were all over the place and kind of losing their meaning. Eventually, they were going to top out, and of course, that kind of shit took a toll.

One needs only look at Chris Benoit, whose brain was roughly the consistency of cream of wheat when he killed his family and himself. He's not the only one it took a toll on, either.

But that aside, the problem is that "extreme" only remains extreme as long as you don't use it so much it becomes commonplace. And they were, and so they needed to get more and more extreme, until it was kind of dumb.

Do I think it has no place in wrestling at all? Well, no. It's just that using it every five minutes made it...Boring. Or, at least, commonplace.

It was shocking when Foley went through the top of the Cell. Then, like, it happened sixteen times in a row. It became expected. It was still fun, but it wasn't special, or surpising. When you're having tables and ladders and chairs (Oh my!) Every week, albeit not necessarily all of them and not automatically in the same matches, they just don't mean much.

I think the big question is what ratio in which it should exist, and I think that's the point at which we most disagree. Kind of like the whole "wrestling" versus "performing" sort of deal.

[tjmidnight420]

TJ, why do you support bullying?

Because that's pretty much the way it works around here. Was pretty ruthless to the trolls when I first started posting.

I think the big question is what ratio in which it should exist, and I think that's the point at which we most disagree. Kind of like the whole "wrestling" versus "performing" sort of deal.

I don't necessarily think we're disagreeing. Henry Pillmanizing people is a big deal because it hasn't been done in so long. They killed off all notions of people using piledrivers so that once or twice a year when Taker busts out the tombstone it means something. Even guys like Evan Bourne benefit from the flippy highspots being scaled back. I guess my point is that going light on these things keeps the excitement up when they do break them out, so long as they don't overdo it. Hell that could be said about anything they try worth seeing, especially in a time when any moderately successful concept gets its own PPV. So as far as the big question: I wouldn't try to come up with an exact ratio because I'm no mathematician but it needs to be kept minimal to keep the excitement up and keep things fresh.

[Shisen Kopf]

They need to bring back pile drivers, DDTs on the concrete and chair shots to the head. WWE got all pussy pussy just bc Chris Benoit went a little overboard.