Rumoured Direction Of The Mid-Card Titles

[Tazz Dan]

After talking to a few people today at the SmackDown tapings word going around is that Brock Lesnar is very close to agreeing on a new contract with the WWE. With the lack of popularity that Roman Reigns has received as of late, Triple H is pushing Vince on the idea of keeping the WWE Championship on Brock.

This would also have huge ramifications with two of the under card matches on the show.
If Brock retains the title it would in all likelihood mean a continued "special attraction schedule" for him. Triple H as of late has been big on the idea that the I.C. Title and the U.S. Title should mean something again. The plan, if Brock retains is to put the U.S. Title on John Cena and the I.C. Title on Daniel Bryan. The theory would be that two legit Superstars would bring legitimacy to both titles. Also, while Brock is gone both men can main event Raw, Smackdown, PPVs and house shows with those titles on top of the card. Which again, would bring back the legitimacy of both belts.

A lot can change between now and WrestleMania. But this is just one of the many ideas that are being discussed. I have not been told of any other ideas, but if I hear more, I will be sure to pass the information along to this great community.

I have seen this rumour pop up in a few different places now, and I have to admit, I'm not that against it. Sure, it's not the ideal situation, and I generally am a strong believer of the Main Championship being showcased and defended on a regular basis. BUT, if they are going down the track of re-hiring Brock and keeping the title on him, I could see many worse scenario's playing out.

So yeah, share your thoughts on the situation. But can we please refrain from attacking other posters for their opinion. As always, a Tazz Dan thread is a safe thread. We're all entitled to our own opinion, and feel free to disagree with each other, but any flat out attacking posts for somebody else's thoughts will be deleted :)

[Lock Jaw]

I see those guys coming out with the titles even if Reigns wins

[Lock Jaw]

Definitely a "good idea" with "good intentions" but it probably wouldn't be so long until they start treating the US/IC titles as garbage again.

[Tazz Dan]

Definitely a "good idea" with "good intentions" but it probably wouldn't be so long until they start treating the US/IC titles as garbage again.

I know. And maybe I'm just a continual delusional optimist, but I feel that if they stick with it, it could really work.

[Lock Jaw]

Part of the problem is at this point the titles "drag these top guys down" unless they actually establish other guys as legit contenders. Like right now Bad New Barrett, R-Truth, Luke Harper, Stardust.... they all feel like they just plain shouldn't be in the same "division" as Daniel Bryan. Putting Bryan in with them isn't making those other guys "more legit", it is making Daniel Bryan "less legit".

That is for now.

I have said this before, but what they really need to do with at least one of these belts is to have someone hold it for a long time. I'm talking a year plus. I was hoping Dolph Ziggler was going to be that man.... to hold on to the IC title as a "fighting champion" that The Authority continually tries to screw and has him defend his title often... but he manages to survive every time and emerge victorious.

[Fignuts]

Been saying for a while now, that the best way to redeem the useless midcard titles, would be to give them to top guys, and have them hold them for a good long while.

[Fignuts]

Actually, imo they should do that for the IC title and make the US title akin to the European title. Give the lower card guys something to strive for besides more than 2 minutes on Main Event.

[Dukelorange]

I think this would work. IF the title reigns are long, the story lines are well written, and who the challengers are would be made to look strong.

[Lock Jaw]

I concur. They need a title (IC) for those guys who are "top card"/"main event caliber" but who aren't involved with the World Title at the moment.

Then they need a belt below that one for the mid-card guys like Barrett, Harper, Truth, Stardust, etc....

[Jazzy Foot]

thought it said mid card titties for a second lol

[NormanSmiley]

When is last time either title did matter iyo guys. Im curious

[Tazz Dan]

When is last time either title did matter iyo guys. Im curious

That would make a good separate thread idea :y:

[Tazz Dan]

thought it said mid card titties for a second lol

I thought your avatar said bobo's for a second lol

[Emperor Smeat]

The idea is great but also could have avoided the WWE title dilemma had it been done last year. Dirtsheets have been hinting the plan would be the IC belt becoming the main title of Smackdown and US title for RAW whenever Lesnar isn't around.

Only real concern I have is with the US title since the last time long term plans involved Cena being used for prestige boosting, it barely lasted a few weeks before suddenly getting dropped. If Reigns struggles post-Mania, can easily see the US belt plans getting shelved just like what happened to the Big Gold belt at the time.

[Maluco]

I still think it was the wrong time to combine the titles. Having a World title at the moment would be really useful, and would ideally be the title that the main event guys go for when Brock isn't around. The IC would be for the guys that are currently in the ladder match (bar Bryan) and the US for the guys who are in the battle royal.

You could have had Bryan going after the WWE title at Mania against Lesnar and Reigns going after Rollins and the authority, who could already have cashed in and be the World Champion.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Heard this talked about on the PWTorchLive cast tonight. Seems like a good theory but never really used in practice.

[Simple Fan]

I like the idea but also feel that Rusev should hold on to the US title. Could lead to unifying the two.

[Lock Jaw]

Looking at the IC title history.... had no idea that both Shelton Benjamin and Cody Rhodes beat Randy Orton's reign in length....

[Wishbone]

I'd be game for this if it wasn't for the fact that WWE never follows through with shit like this. In a month they'll have forgotten and the belts will be more meaningless than they are now. Also if you're putting your two best guys on those titles it kinda leave the world title scene pretty empty.

[hb2k]

Why the fuck didn't they do this back in September after Lesnar was gone? These fucking people.

[Jazzy Foot]

I have seen this rumour pop up in a few different places now, and I have to admit, I'm not that against it. Sure, it's not the ideal situation, and I generally am a strong believer of the Main Championship being showcased and defended on a regular basis. BUT, if they are going down the track of re-hiring Brock and keeping the title on him, I could see many worse scenario's playing out.

So yeah, share your thoughts on the situation. But can we please refrain from attacking other posters for their opinion. As always, a Tazz Dan thread is a safe thread. We're all entitled to our own opinion, and feel free to disagree with each other, but any flat out attacking posts for somebody else's thoughts will be deleted :)

I agree that legitimacy needs to be restored to the titles but believe that the main title ought to be the main attraction of ppvs. Many people pay good money to attend or watch the events on ppv or the network and a US title main event just doesn't scream marquee.

I don't think Cena winning the U.S. title will restore its credibility if anything allowing Rusev to go on undefeated will.

I would say have Rusev beat Cena or have him lose by DQ but keep the belt. Then at Summer Slam or Night of Champions, he wins the IC title, then the Rumble then the WHC at Mania 32. Having a dominant champion brings credibility to the title rather than the star itself.

Bias aside they should have Lesnar lose rather than a part time champion. Having your champion appear sporadically demeans the belt further.

[Jazzy Foot]

Also maybe consider having the Andre Battle Royal winner get a title shot at a future ppv like Extreme Rules or whatever is after Mania.

[Frank Drebin]

I've always wanted the us/ic titles to mean more during this era. If Brock being a part timer as a champion forces their hand to at least try something new I'm all for it.

[CSL]

works for New Japan, Intercontinental title there is pretty much on par with the top belt, even headlined their WrestleMania last year. The IC belt in particular, Daniel Bryan could do great things with it. Keep the US title the same kind of level it is now and start treating the IC belt with the same kind of prestige as the WHC had, it has the legacy, names, nostalgia etc behind it.

[Hanso Amore]

I keep seeing Rumoured direction of the mid card titties

Dean Ambrose etc

[Mr. Nerfect]

I like the idea in theory. Basically echo the sentiments of CSL here for me. Jim Ross made a good point doing commentary for New Japan's WrestleKingdom this year: "Why would you want a title to be less prestigious than another?" Or something along those lines.

Daniel Bryan could win the IC Title and people could care about it more than the World Title. Cena could win the US Title for a fourth time and replica sales might skyrocket. You can do a segment where Cena and Bryan stand in the ring and shake each other's hand and declare they will be the best champions ever and represent their respective titles with honor and respect and what have you.

Something about it just doesn't seem right though...

I don't think Dean Ambrose should have lost the US Title when he did. The company could have made Ambrose defend the title more regularly and he could have cracked a year as champ. A slanted victory for Orton or even Batista would have made sense at this point in time. But they didn't do that -- they hot-shotted the title onto Sheamus -- and it was basically just there to keep him afloat until Rusev got it.

I feel like the current US Champion should be Jack Swagger. His character loves America and would love to be the US Champion. His hatred of Rusev should have pushed him towards the title more. I think as a former World Heavyweight and ECW Champion, he would have been plenty credible enough to breathe some life into the US Title -- without a full-time main eventer stepping down to win it.

Barrett was a fine choice as the Intercontinental Champion. They probably should have gotten Chris Jericho to come in and feud with him over the title and really "make him" as this era's definitive IC Champion. Barrett could talk about how he saw the title defended in the main event of SummerSlam '92 in his home country, so it's the real World Title to him. That being said, Dean Ambrose's recent push towards it was kind of interesting, and having him win the IC Title off Barrett, defend it against Jericho, and basically hold the title until he wins Money in the Bank in his home-state, cashes it in successfully and is forced to forfeit it would have been a nice way to imply the title launches main event careers.

I like it when titles mean something, but I'm not sure if Barrett losing every match he's in as champion and the title only sometimes being mentioned sometimes during the feud the champion is in is the way to go about it.

[Big Vic]

I see those guys coming out with the titles even if Reigns wins
WWE is stupid if the put the US title on Cena.

[Stickman]

When we had the wwe champion and world champ i thought it made sense to unify thrm and have the IC and US as the Raw/smackdown championships and have the world champ not be brand specific and defended less often. It builds prestige to all belts. Nice to see them take my idea 10 years after i thought of it.

[Dukelorange]

I would take this a step further... With NXT going with lighter superstars nowadays and focusing on talent. They should drop the US Title and make it a Light Heavyweight or Cruiserweight Title to ease the casual fan into accepting lighter world champions. Outside if Big E and Kevin Owens, all of the NXT champs have been less than heavy. Plus guys like Tyler Breeze, Bo Dallas, and even Fandango could have title reigns even if the gimmick isn't World Champ worthy...

[The Rogerer]

The US title is WCW trash and should find it's direction is bound for a dumpster.

[Simple Fan]

I would take this a step further... With NXT going with lighter superstars nowadays and focusing on talent. They should drop the US Title and make it a Light Heavyweight or Cruiserweight Title to ease the casual fan into accepting lighter world champions. Outside if Big E and Kevin Owens, all of the NXT champs have been less than heavy. Plus guys like Tyler Breeze, Bo Dallas, and even Fandango could have title reigns even if the gimmick isn't World Champ worthy...

Or a WWE Television title would do so you wouldn't have to have a weight class.

[Dukelorange]

I could get with the TV Title. Perhaps with the added wrinkle of a time limit. Or a winner must be declared after the 5 min mark, but before the 10 min mark.

[Big Vic]

The US title is WCW trash and should find it's direction is bound for a dumpster.
US Title is booked better than the IC title is now.

[Dukelorange]

I just want to see the uS Spinner Title just for one night on RAW if Cena wins...

[NormanSmiley]

I just want to see the uS Spinner Title just for one night on RAW if Cena wins...





just no, fuck no, god no, you motherfucker, NO!

[drave]

USA#1

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110108170740/prowrestling/images/a/a0/John-Cena-Spinner-WWE-U_S_-Championship-Belt.jpg

[Rammsteinmad]

Been saying this since forever, but the Intercontinental and United States championships haven't lost any prestige, we've all just grown up and see them for what they are.

[Tazz Dan]

I agree that legitimacy needs to be restored to the titles but believe that the main title ought to be the main attraction of ppvs. Many people pay good money to attend or watch the events on ppv or the network and a US title main event just doesn't scream marquee.

You realise you pretty much agreed with what I said, right lol

[poopfromweiner dude]

I liked the U.S. spinner belt

Bring that back JC

[XL]

I've no faith in them doing/maintaining this.

[Frank Drebin]

"WWE: Hope for the best, expect the worst"

Also, I always liked the wcw belt. Looks like a legit belt, and not some goofy gimmicky thing splashed with 'merica all over it. Yes, I know its the "US" title.

http://www.ajsbelts.com/images/wcwus1mid.jpg

[Theo Dious]

Regardless of who wins the World Title at Wrestlemania I think they have a good thing going with minimal title defenses. Save them for the big 4. Defend the IC title consistently on PPV and work the US title as a TV title, often defended on Raw and Smackdwon, only occasionally on PPV. Also if they continue with the MitB concept, tweak it so that the "anytime anywhere" aspect changes so that a week's notice is required. This would all lead to titles meaning something and eyes being drawn to them when they are defended.

[Frank Drebin]

Always thought someone should use MITB as a way to get the IC/US title from someone they've had a blood feud with. Like "I want to humiliate you more than I want a world title shot" Sounds like it has alot of pitfalls though

[Theo Dious]

US Title is booked better than the IC title is now.

Honestly I'll take a scramble among the solid midcard to determine the best among them over a fat-bottomed Russian wannabe vs John Cena over USA USA USA!

[Simple Fan]

If they want to make them more prestigious I think Bryan is the best choice for the IC title and have him hold it awhile. Have Rusev beat Cena and at Summerslam have a IC/US title and have Bryan go over Rusev. With the two titles combined they can create a low mid card title for people like Ryder, Rose, Dallas , Kofi, and guys like that. Bryan could hold the new ICttitle for a record time and kind of be like a peoples champ. If they wanted the could do the WWE champion vs Bryan as the IC champ. Its been done before so it can be done again. Now I'm not a Bryan fan but feel he could get the IC title to a new high.

[NormanSmiley]

Its not the title. Its the lack of any good feuds period. Whether it is for a title or a personal vendetta none of us are emotionally invested in the writing, until that changes titles wont matter

[Jazzy Foot]

You realise you pretty much agreed with what I said, right lol

Great minds eh?

But yeah as a fan I'd feel ripped off paying good money for to attend a PPV and the WWE title wasn't on the line in a match.


I think the Rusev idea is best or something similar; have someone go on a long unbeaten streak beating marquee opponents in US/IC title matches, winning both belts along the way to winning the WHC.


Personally I think they should bring back the Big Gold Belt it was great having two world champions and in the Raw v Smackdown eras it really did feel as if both belts were equally prestigious. Post WM 26/27 it began the Big Gold Belt began losing its shine and it's lowest moment was when Sheamus beat Bryan in 18 seconds at WM 28 for the title. I personally felt that was a huge insult to the legacy of that title and after that it lost all prestige in eyes of the "casual fan".


No need to elevate the US or IC titles they are what they are; a level below the WWE WHC but make it look as if the wrestlers and WWE themselves actually care about the title.

[Jazzy Foot]

"WWE: Hope for the best, expect the worst"

Also, I always liked the wcw belt. Looks like a legit belt, and not some goofy gimmicky thing splashed with 'merica all over it. Yes, I know its the "US" title.

http://www.ajsbelts.com/images/wcwus1mid.jpg

I agree.

[DAMN iNATOR]

I like the idea of Brock retaining and Bryan having the IC title, but Cena with the US title again just over 11 years later...SERIOUSLY?! Keep it on Rusev until someone who actually deserves it, such as Sheamus or Swagger takes it from him. Putting the belt on Cena, I believe, does neither him nor Rusev a bit of good.

[Lock Jaw]

I think for Daniel Bryan to hold the IC title, it would help a lot if Cena held the US title. Would "legitimize" the fact that "top guys" can hold "mid-card" titles. If just Bryan wins it, it is just him being "brought down a notch".

[Damian Rey]

I'd like to know who exactly deserves to beat Rusev.

[Lock Jaw]

Jack Swagger at the last Summerslam

[Damian Rey]

Even then. He had zero momentum before that program and it's not like his character had legs even had he won. Sadly, nobody's been booked well enough to be on Rusev's level.

[Tazz Dan]

I like the idea of Brock retaining and Bryan having the IC title, but Cena with the US title again just over 11 years later...SERIOUSLY?! Keep it on Rusev until someone who actually deserves it, such as Sheamus or Swagger takes it from him. Putting the belt on Cena, I believe, does neither him nor Rusev a bit of good.

I disagree, putting the title on Cena helps him a lot. It keeps him in the spotlight without chasing the World Title. and like LJ said, if Bryan also wins, it helps legitimize his win. If THE biggest superstar of the last decade isn't good enough to beat Rusev in your eyes, then who is? Keeping in mind that Rusev has held his own in this feud, and losing to Cena won't make him look bad in any shape or form, and the return matches could be just as epic.

[Shisen Kopf]

Everyone has good ideas in here. Good job give yourselves a hand.

[XL]

Always thought someone should use MITB as a way to get the IC/US title from someone they've had a blood feud with. Like "I want to humiliate you more than I want a world title shot" Sounds like it has alot of pitfalls though

That could work with Cena holding the US Title: they'd be going after the franchise player. Though, it does position a win over Cena as more meaningful than a World Title win.

Or you could have a vindictive heel take the IC Title from Bryan just to get one over on the fans.

Its not the title. Its the lack of any good feuds period. Whether it is for a title or a personal vendetta none of us are emotionally invested in the writing, until that changes titles wont matter

This. Just, this.

[XL]

Putting the midcard titles on these huge names is step one. It's a good idea to get a bit of focus on the belts but there's so much beyond that.

Theoretically, winning the US Title off of John Cena would mean more than winning it from, say Curtis Axel. That alone should give the new champion some momentum, especially if Cena has had a long, strong run, and then loses (relatively) cleanly.

The trouble will come when they bounce the title back down to an upper-midcard guy. Suddenly he's not "believable" as a guy who could beat Cena, or we revert to the "guy gets a win over champion, becomes #1 Contender" trope that helps nobody.

Or, they'll lose interest in the idea of pushing the midcard belts entirely, like the hot/cold way they treat the tag Divison.

[Dukelorange]

Great point XL

[NormanSmiley]

in all honesty, the last good feud over the IC title I can remember would be Austin/Rock. that was a lifetime ago. maybe there was another hot storyline over it but if so it escapes me, for the last decade its been treated like shit and wasn't there a 5-6 years stretch it never got defended at mania...made no sense


the US title... I cant even say.. the last time I can even remember a feud over it was cena/big show. I know that was a smackdown title though and during brand split I never paid much attention to the taped show, my fault there

[Damian Rey]

The Rock/Triple H had a pretty good feud followed by a show stealing ladder match at Summer Slam. Have a hard time remembering anything past that.

[Emperor Smeat]

Supposedly a new plan being tossed around at the moment doesn't have Bryan winning although other sheets have been hinting its unlikely Sheamus is showing up at Mania this year.

MetsFan has posted an update and says another idea being tossed around is for Sheamus to make his surprise return in the Intercontinental Title Ladder Match at WrestleMania. According to this report, the feeling is that Sheamus will be cheered heavily but will "heel it up" throughout the match. At some point, Sheamus would cost Bryan the match and win the title.

This would then lead to a feud with a heel Sheamus vs. a babyface Bryan for the Intercontinental Title. It should be noted that this is another rumor but since his original report about WWE elevating both secondary titles, there have been signs from within WWE and from other sources that the reports could be true. He did add that this plan is less likely to happen than the original idea of Bryan winning the title but it is still being discussed

The feud itself is still likely happening regardless since its been teased Vince has an unhealthy obsession with wanting those two to feud a lot more.

[XL]

in all honesty, the last good feud over the IC title I can remember would be Austin/Rock. that was a lifetime ago. maybe there was another hot storyline over it but if so it escapes me, for the last decade its been treated like shit and wasn't there a 5-6 years stretch it never got defended at mania...made no sense


the US title... I cant even say.. the last time I can even remember a feud over it was cena/big show. I know that was a smackdown title though and during brand split I never paid much attention to the taped show, my fault there

IC
Jericho/Benoit in 2001
Jericho/Mysterio in 2009

US
MVP/Matt Hardy in 2008
Benoit/Booker in 2006

[XL]

Ambrose (351), Miz (321), and Cesaro (239) hold the three longest combined US title reigns. Take one of them and have it be their objective to work their way up that list. They want the title because they want to set records. They doggedly pursue that specific championship, if they lose they get right back in pursuit of the belt, they don't just shrug and go after the IC title instead.

[Heyman]

I have seen this rumour pop up in a few different places now, and I have to admit, I'm not that against it. Sure, it's not the ideal situation, and I generally am a strong believer of the Main Championship being showcased and defended on a regular basis. BUT, if they are going down the track of re-hiring Brock and keeping the title on him, I could see many worse scenario's playing out.

So yeah, share your thoughts on the situation. But can we please refrain from attacking other posters for their opinion. As always, a Tazz Dan thread is a safe thread. We're all entitled to our own opinion, and feel free to disagree with each other, but any flat out attacking posts for somebody else's thoughts will be deleted :)



I like the idea a lot. Cena and Bryan would do wonders for that division. The only other different scenario I would suggest, is to have Daniel Bryan win both the IC and US title and unify the belts. Bryan can bring massive credibility to the new division.


Cena doesn't really need either of those belts.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Jack Swagger at the last Summerslam

Why reward after the injury to Bad News Barrett?

[Lock Jaw]

It's all about the monay

[Theo Dious]

Everyone has good ideas in here. Good job give yourselves a hand.

Masturbation makes the saints cry, Sir.

[screech]

Ambrose (351), Miz (321), and Cesaro (239) hold the three longest combined US title reigns. Take one of them and have it be their objective to work their way up that list. They want the title because they want to set records. They doggedly pursue that specific championship, if they lose they get right back in pursuit of the belt, they don't just shrug and go after the IC title instead.

It would be refreshing to see Miz "get serious" and go after a record like that. Especially if he loses it to someone he's got history with (maybe R-Truth?) and "snaps" on him because he is obsessed with the record.

[XL]

Would he become a badass submission machine? He has mastered the Figure Four after all.

[dronepool]

So with Cena probably winning the U.S. Title, does that makes it the new 2nd tier belt and the IC belt "the random one".

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'd like to hear from the guys chasing the titles about why they specifically want to win that title. It seems to me like everybody just wants to be "be a champion." I really don't feel like anyone really needs to be champion more than anyone else.

[Jazzy Foot]

So with Cena probably winning the U.S. Title, does that makes it the new 2nd tier belt and the IC belt "the random one".

Not a foregone conclusion imo although could see Cena winning by DQ but Rusev still holding the title.

The US title was essentially a non-WWE creation so I'm not sure they would elevate it to that "2nd tier" level ahead of the IC title much in the way the Big Gold Belt was eventually viewed as 2nd to the WWE title and phased out completely or the way Sting is being referred to as the vigilante rather than the franchise or the icon and how they're not using his iconic crow-theme.

[Jazzy Foot]

I'd like to hear from the guys chasing the titles about why they specifically want to win that title. It seems to me like everybody just wants to be "be a champion." I really don't feel like anyone really needs to be champion more than anyone else.

I think if we want to truly elevate the prestige of the titles then put it on individuals who are going to be pushed towards the main-event/WWE title picture.

I for one would love to see someone go from winning the US title, to unifying the IC title and then taking on the WWE whc and holding all three titles albeit until they decide to vacate the others. This is way I'm keen on the idea of prolonging Rusev's "undefeated streak" for as long as possible and other than Goldberg's "streak" at least we have been able to see Rusev's wins be they on Raw, Smackdown, PPV etc whereas Goldie seemed to go into triple digits overnight.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I haven't been keeping a perfect record, but I think the US Champion actually fairs very well in matches against the IC Champion.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They apparently want the IC Title to mean something, yet they ended the Barrett vs. Ambrose match at Fast Lane with a disqualification? Why not shift the title to Ambrose and have Barrett chase Ambrose in a feud that matters? Or why not have Ambrose simply earn the IC Title shot at Fast Lane and have Barrett attack him after the match? Everything rings a little bit hollow right now.

[Jazzy Foot]

They apparently want the IC Title to mean something, yet they ended the Barrett vs. Ambrose match at Fast Lane with a disqualification? Why not shift the title to Ambrose and have Barrett chase Ambrose in a feud that matters? Or why not have Ambrose simply earn the IC Title shot at Fast Lane and have Barrett attack him after the match? Everything rings a little bit hollow right now.

In my eyes the IC champions was always one the main contenders for the WWF/WWE title and if they could go back to those days that would be great.

I would like to see two World titles i.e. the WWE and WHC again especially in this day and age of the part-time wrestler era.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I was calling for the unification of the WWE and World Heavyweight Championships, just because there was no active brand split anymore. Oddly enough, Cena had just won the WHT before it was retired, so it was probably the most relevant it had been in years.