The Official Royal Rumble 2016 Thread

[Mr. Pierre]

Really enjoyed the show.

-LMS was awesome. Both guys looked good, and a shove off the top rope spot doesn't hurt Owens at all. Liking Dean as IC champ as well

-Tag Titles was typical, good stuff with a sweet finish

-Kalisto winning back the title made me happy. Now let's hope they get this guy on a roll and get em over.

-Divas overall were great. Everything worked for me. Loved the Banks return. A WM Divas match being foreshadowed at the Rumble? Think it's been about 15 years since that happened

-Rumble was a huge improvement over the 2 previous years, but that's not saying much

.WOW seeing Styles was fun; encouraging debut

.Roman again was failed by creative. Walking out on his own. Really? Consciously walking away from a fight with your title on the line as a top babyface? Bad

.Lesnar/Wyatt has me interested, but Brock not snapping after his bullshit elimination made zero sense. It's like someone wrote that without taking into effect how awkward it would be to see Brock just disappear without a rebuttal. Head scratcher

.Vito hit the nail on the head. Can the fucking commentators try and get Triple H over as a power hungry asshole? Brutal. He was booked as a babyface last night in almost every way.

.Dean making the final 2 was great, but he was used. If Triple H dumps Reigns to win, Hunter gets cheered. If he dumps the guy who is more over, he gets boo'd. It was smart in a way, but a little sad at the same time.

Anyway, fun show, really enjoyed it, but the WWE's attention to detail is non-existant

[Schlomey]

I avoided reading boards, armchair booking threads and anything else leading up to the Royal Rumble. So HHH at #30 wasn't ruined for me. So I'll be playing the role of Mark in this thread. I enjoyed the Rumble. I also feel that HHH put himself over way to clean I still think the match and ending was the right way to go. With all the injuries, the WWE's hand was somewhat forced to that big WM main event match started.

And the undercard? Fuggetaboutit. Rumble undercards, historically (overall) are pretty lame. Every match had purpose and went from insane spots to just pure enjoyment. Which, in essence, is what a PPV should be. All killer no filler.

I will say that I hated all the video packages and commercials. There was 3/4 between the Divas match and the Rumble alone. We get it, new shows are coming ...fuck.

Also hate how they treated some of the guys in the Rumble (swagger)....but overall the "good" guys got plenty of time in the ring. And Kevin Owens' faces were priceless during the Rumble.

This was also my kids first "stay up with dad" live PPV experience...All thanks to the snowstorm that cancelled school for today. He had a BLAST and went apeshit when KO went through the double table spot.

9/10 is my rating. Fun night not ruined by over-thinking the booking decisions of certain aspects.

[Mr. Pierre]

Also the "0-100" selling worked for HBK 20 years ago, but Reigns trying to pull it off as a 280 lber in 2016 is just ridiculous. Can Roman just sell a previous beatdown during his comeback? Where's the middle ground?

[CSL]

sorry, TPWW has reached it's PPV quota for people that were entertained by the fun wrestling show in spite of the booking discrepancies or not liking the person that won. We're going to need you to make your posts a bit more negative.

Also the "0-100" selling worked for HBK 20 years ago, but Reigns trying to pull it off as a 280 lber in 2016 is just ridiculous. Can Roman just sell a previous beatdown during his comeback? Where's the middle ground?

nobody really sells any more, it's a week in, week out thing :-\

[CSL]

well, it's a pro wrestling in general in 2016 thing tbh

[Rammsteinmad]

Undercard was solid and enjoyable. Seems like everyone enjoyed the Rumble match, but I found it incredibly boring.

I have no interest in seeing Roman Reigns vs Fat Triple H at Wrestlemania. As much as I love Chris Jericho, fat Chris Jericho vs Dean Ambrose doesn't sound very appealing for Wrestlemania (see ABT's "Fuck Off Chris Jericho" thread).

AJ Styles debuting was awesome. His performance itself was quite underwhelming, but the fact he was there and debuted in the Rumble match for a solid half hour was pretty awesome.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

AJ Styles debut if Kevin Dunn knew how to direct a TV show anymore instead of focusing in on Reigns:

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; ██████████ relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/krv3" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen scrolling="no" style="width: 100%; height: 100%; ██████████ absolute;"></iframe></div>


nobody really sells any more, it's a week in, week out thing :-\

I was kinda shocked Owens came out selling the last man standing match still.

[Sepholio]

Really should have went with Bray or Dean winning the belt.

[The Condor]

So, at this point, is R-Truth more or less functionally retarded than the Eugene character? Not a complaint, because I enjoy his act, but it's just so weird.

[Arrogance]

Braun Strowman is going to be around a long, long time if he avoids injuries. I'm always impressed with the Wyatts, Harper always impresses the shit out of me.

I kind of groaned with Bray was eliminated, guess the Wyatts got over with me during the match.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I enjoyed the show, I just really have no interest in most of the big matches that appear to be on the offing for WM. Just not my tastes.

Undercard should be shit hot in terms of match quality but with WWE's penchant for stop-start, 50/50 booking in the midcard I'm skeptical as to how much anything that happens in those matches will actually mean.</font>

[#1-norm-fan]

Pretty much exactly how I feel. I didn't really have any problems with the show itself as a standalone PPV. It's what it sets up for what's intended to be such a huge WrestleMania that's the problem.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It comes down to Vince's reliance on his comfort zones. He gets very scared of what is new and any bump in the road means we have to go back to status quo.

HHH on top is something which is familiar and something he knows he can lean on. Unfortunately, we've all seen it before. I mean I get what they are trying to do, and the finish was hot, but it is a little disheartening and completely unfresh.

[Frank Drebin]

If they put the title on anyone other than Roman/HHH/Brock everyone would be in here complaining that the new champ shouldn't have been crowned until WM to build him up as a credible champ and give him his "moment"

That's ignoring that, if the card shakes out like it seems, HHH/Reigns needs the title involved to add fuel to the story. Brock doesn't need it and neither will whomever he faces at WM.

[Big Vic]

If they put the title on anyone other than Roman/HHH/Brock everyone would be in here complaining that the new champ shouldn't have been crowned until WM to build him up as a credible champ and give him his "moment"
I don't think so Frank.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah I disagree with that totally. Triple H coming in at #30, sicking the League of Nations on Roman and throwing him out of the Rumble could have been a "oh shit, this is personal" moment. Could have easily bought into them having a blood feud culminating in a match at Mania (likely a street fight, as Noid suggested).

Lesnar got pretty well fucked over by the Wyatt Family in the Rumble. Lesnar tearing through the Family to get to Bray to try to win back the title he never lost sounds a lot more interesting to me than Lesnar vs. Bray because of reasons.

Then you can use both guys' momentum coming out of the Rumble to do Reigns/Lesnar 2 at SummerSlam, and give Reigns his moment there.</font>

[Big Vic]

Or maybe we can just pull the plug on Reigns?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

If they put the title on anyone other than Roman/HHH/Brock everyone would be in here complaining that the new champ shouldn't have been crowned until WM to build him up as a credible champ and give him his "moment"

That's ignoring that, if the card shakes out like it seems, HHH/Reigns needs the title involved to add fuel to the story. Brock doesn't need it and neither will whomever he faces at WM.

Not too sure about any of that.

[drave]

Gotta ignore 47% of what Frankie D. says anymore.

He is getting old and wants kids to get off his lawn and #shutitdown

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Reigns vs HHH is a 50/50 match in terms of whether it will be successful. You never know how the crowd is going to react to either guy.

[drave]

Meh, could take it or leave it.

[Big Vic]

I don't think it will be 50/50; 25% for a mania crowd. 0% chance at a post mania crowd...... Samoa Joe has a better chance of beating Scott Steiner.

[CSL]

Mania crowds and post Mania crowds are completely different, I'm sure they'll be just fine, especially once Rock gets involved

[Innovator]

I don't think it will be 50/50; 25% for a mania crowd. 0% chance at a post mania crowd...... Samoa Joe has a better chance of beating Scott Steiner.

Yup, numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for Roman

[Frank Drebin]

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah I disagree with that totally. Triple H coming in at #30, sicking the League of Nations on Roman and throwing him out of the Rumble could have been a "oh shit, this is personal" moment. Could have easily bought into them having a blood feud culminating in a match at Mania (likely a street fight, as Noid suggested).

Lesnar got pretty well fucked over by the Wyatt Family in the Rumble. Lesnar tearing through the Family to get to Bray to try to win back the title he never lost sounds a lot more interesting to me than Lesnar vs. Bray because of reasons.

Then you can use both guys' momentum coming out of the Rumble to do Reigns/Lesnar 2 at SummerSlam, and give Reigns his moment there.</font>

They're trying to build up Reigns. Having him get jumped and unceremoniously tossed hinders that. Not saying having him leave and come back was a good choice, but if you've chosen to run with him you can't make him an afterthought and you can't have the rumble end that way either.

Lesnar can chase the title at any time. Doesn't have to be now. In fact, he needs to be given the Cena treatment and stay away from the title picture for as long as possible. He doesn't need Bray holding the title to have a reason to tear through them.

[Jari]

Alright my two cents on the PPV:

1) Given that neither Henry, nor Swagger spent anymore than 30 seconds in the Royal Rumble match, what was the fucking point of having them win the kick off show match when you could have taken along two more NXT guys who would actually get a reaction (Gable and Corbin if you're asking who I would have put in)

2) Great LMS match between Ambrose and Owens. Owens is one of the best in the business and Ambrose really stepped it up in terms of his performance. I've found some of his in-ring work a little stale since his feud with Rollins but since the World title tournament and becoming IC champ, he's reached the standards he set before.

3) Decent tag team match with an impressive finish from Big E. That was Brock Lesnar style strength in catching Uso (Jimmy or Jey)

4) Kalisto got a big opportunity and I thought he Sin Cara'ed it. Quite a few botches but they got through the match. Somewhat worryingly ADR and Kalisto don't have much chemistry. I know this is classic 50/50 booking but depending on what Kevin Owens' plans for Wrestlemania are, I would not be adverse to ADR winning the title back and then having a match with AJ Styles at Wrestlemania.

5) I kind of switched off for the Diva's match. Mega to see Sasha Banks return and hopefully this builds to a Triple Threat at Wrestlemania, Banks winning the title, ditching the Diva's title for the Women's title, going through the competition until Summerslam time when Bayley debuts.

6) The Rumble match itself:

Now battle royales or rumble matches are usually quite shit. I thought this one was quite well put together and allowed a lot of guys to get their spots in.

Now maybe I am swimming against the tide by trying to apply logic to a wrestling match but I have a number of issues with it. Firstly the booking of Roman Reigns - so the LoN drag him out and beat the hell out of him, leaving him at ringside (which is bizarre given they could have taken him back into the ring, then thrown him out apparently). Reigns decides that he does not require a stretcher but instead, as the heroic babyface, voluntarily walks to the back, presumably for a cup of tea and a chance to de-frizz his hair. Meanwhile the nasty villain Kevin Owens valiantly drags half his carcass to the ring after a brutal Last Man Standing match. Reigns then appears at the end of the match, avoiding the Wyatts and Brock Lesnar, feeling no ill effects from the brutal beating 20 minutes earlier. The fuck?

Speaking of the Wyatts and Lesnar, if eliminated parties can come back in and get involved, why did Lesnar not just jump back in and kill Bray Wyatt?

HHH winning was as predictable as...well Reigns winning last year or Bootista winning two years ago. And in that one action, it sums the WWE perfectly. If they want HHH vs Reigns at WM, it doesn't need the title involved. He could easily have eliminated Reigns and then fallen to Dean Ambrose and just like that the place would have exploded and a new star would have been born. Given Owens the IC title, then Ambrose manages to overcome the odds of beating HHH in the Rumble. Then Owens can wrestle Zayn, AJ, Neville, etc while Ambrose can be the underdog Champion Daniel Bryan didn't have the chance to be because of injury. But instead a part-timer from the Attitude Era of course comes out on top.

I don't really know where things are going to go tonight because I can't believe they're actually going to go into, what they want to be, the biggest WM of all time with Reigns vs HHH for the title as the main event but what last night did show is that despite all the injuries and absentees, the WWE still has an incredible roster but it also has a lot of dead weight and that's principally because of the 50/50 booking they love so much.

Despite all that I actually thought it was a decent PPV, let down by some poor choices in the main event but the bastards have got me intrigued as to what they're going to do tonight.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I think having Roman be in the rumble the whole time and "battling" and showing his grit would have won the crowd over a bit more than him leaving for 40 minutes.

[Jari]

And Kevin Dunn or whoever was in charge of the production last night had fucking disaster. When "I Am Phenomenal" came up on the Titan Tron that should have been akin to "Jericho" in 1999. Instead they spent the entire time looking at Roman's gormless face, wondering what the hell that cheering noise what the crowd is making.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think having Roman be in the rumble the whole time and "battling" and showing his grit would have won the crowd over a bit more than him leaving for 40 minutes.

It runs the risk of overexposing him though. This whole angle is too big for what they are trying to achieve with the guy.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They really should have just turned Roman heel at Survivor Series and had Brock win this year's Rumble. Oh well.

[Jari]

It runs the risk of overexposing him though. This whole angle is too big for what they are trying to achieve with the guy.

Yes because the one thing the WWE has nailed over the last two years, it's definitely not overexposing Roman Reigns.

The problem is that the guy is not connecting with the audience. They have spent the last month trying to make him as sympathetic as possible and yet the crowd still cheered when he got thrown out by HHH of all people.

He is not the performer they want him to be, no matter how much they make it clear that he's the chosen one.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I agree, but I think having him "work" the entire match would have made people groan too. It was a can't-win situation.

[Jari]

I agree, but I think having him "work" the entire match would have made people groan too. It was a can't-win situation.

Then have him carried out on a stretcher. Or at least sell the beat down when you come back from your little nap.

[Jari]

It's not difficult - Jesus just watch the 1999 Rumble since that's the angle we're basically repeating.

[Emperor Smeat]

I think having Roman be in the rumble the whole time and "battling" and showing his grit would have won the crowd over a bit more than him leaving for 40 minutes.

Feels like if the WWE wasn't confident of him pulling an "ironman" moment with the Rumble, they should have at least had the League interfere a lot earlier and do better with creating the doubt of his return.

Him shrugging off the stretch and later returning as if nothing happened really soured the mini-story they were trying to tell with the League's beatdown.

They were trying to do too many things for Reigns to prevent another major backlash and none really came off well during the Rumble.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

http://i.imgur.com/YMddLGu.png

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Feels like if the WWE wasn't confident of him pulling an "ironman" moment with the Rumble, they should have at least had the League interfere a lot earlier and do better with creating the doubt of his return.

Him shrugging off the stretch and later returning as if nothing happened really soured the mini-story they were trying to tell with the League's beatdown.

They were trying to do too many things for Reigns to prevent another major backlash and none really came off well during the Rumble.

And that injury mid match angle has been done to death and it takes away any heat or sympathy Roman could have had. It just reminds everyone how fake wrestling is because this shit happens. Yes, we all know wrestling is fake, so are movies, but we appreciate when stuff is original.


In saying that, I thought Roman had a good performance. He reacted well to HHH eliminating him and his intensity is there. He works hard, he's a good performer and is constantly improving from what I can tell (I don't watch too much) but he is let down by shoddy "writing", "scripting" and what have you and is completely and utterly mis cast.

He is a badass niche character who should speak very little and do violent things to people. It doesn't need to be so apparent that he is the future face of the company. It's easy for the public to sour on someone who is mis cast as such and there are VERY few who can deal with the hand Roman has been dealt.

[Evil Vito]

They're trying to build up Reigns. Having him get jumped and unceremoniously tossed hinders that. Not saying having him leave and come back was a good choice, but if you've chosen to run with him you can't make him an afterthought and you can't have the rumble end that way either.

Lesnar can chase the title at any time. Doesn't have to be now. In fact, he needs to be given the Cena treatment and stay away from the title picture for as long as possible. He doesn't need Bray holding the title to have a reason to tear through them.

<font color=goldenrod>I don't think having Reigns jumped and eliminated would have hindered him. Maybe this particular smark-heavy crowd would have cheered for it, but the story would make sense. As it is now, he didn't even get screwed for the belt. He lost fair and square. Had he been screwed for the belt, he'd have even more of a reason to want to tear Triple H a new asshole.

Then he gets a rematch against Bray at Fastlane. Reigns gets screwed again (possibly thwarting Wyatt Family interference but then Triple H intervenes to ruin his life again). Reigns and Triple H then have a genuine blood feud that makes perfect sense. Lesnar meanwhile turns up the next night on Raw to reignite the Wyatt feud.

I just feel that would be more compelling. Just my 2 cents though.</font>

[DrCrawford]

Yes because the one thing the WWE has nailed over the last two years, it's definitely not overexposing Roman Reigns.

The problem is that the guy is not connecting with the audience. They have spent the last month trying to make him as sympathetic as possible and yet the crowd still cheered when he got thrown out by HHH of all people.

He is not the performer they want him to be, no matter how much they make it clear that he's the chosen one.

Can't believe nothing has changed in a year of not watching

[Nark Order]

I don't mind the Trips outcome because it made sense but at some point they should stop relying on safe booking decisions. That's why everybody crucified Sheamus. It was just a safe boring decision which will probably lead to a safe boring WM main event.

[Nark Order]

My probelm with Roman is that his talent doesn't jump off the screen. Say what you want about Cena, but his charisma is undeniable. Roman always looks lost. He doesn't command attention like Rock, Punk, Cena, Edge, Jericho, Ambrose, Owens, etc. He's not a bad wrestler but that's really all he is to me: not a bad wrestler. Not necessarily a ringing endorsement.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Reigns doesn't really even seem to know who he is as a character.

[Sepholio]

It's like right before Reigns comes out the writers just tell him something along the lines of "OK Roman, go out there and be funny" and then the next time it's "OK Roman, today you're angry. Go punch some stuff."

Seriously. He has no character. He just has that days random emotion.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Why are we meant to cheer him? Like what makes him a good guy?

[Volare]

He taught me that if I don't like what my boss says, go punch his father.

[CSL]

Why are we meant to cheer him? Like what makes him a good guy?

what makes Ambrose a good guy, what make Balor a good guy, what makes Cesaro a good guy, what makes AJ a good guy etc

[Fignuts]

They fight bad guys.

[Maluco]

Charisma? I know that is a quality that is hard to pin down, but guys like Ambrose have charisma, that intangable that makes people want to cheer for them.

A lot of people would put AJ on the same boat as Reigns, for example, as neither of the two have great mic skills, but AJ carries himself in a way that fits his character. People like him and Ambrose are comfortable in their characters and who they are (although some might argue that it took AJ a long time to find that).

All I know is, I don't have much of a knowledge about AJ Styles, but when he came out at the Rumble and did his sig pose, it just looked cool, and I wanted to cheer for him. He carried himself like AJ Styles.

Roman Reigns still carries himself like a Shield member. He has no individual qualities and he looks awkward and stiff. His outfit is still Shield, his music is still Shield and his finisher is one of the most overdone in all of wrestling. At times he is cocky, at times he is aggressive, at times he is too cool for it all. I can't get a read on his personality either.

He needs to find himself imo and be who Roman Reigns really is. That is his best shot at winning people over.

[CSL]

They fight bad guys.

exactly

Charisma? I know that is a quality that is hard to pin down, but guys like Ambrose have charisma, that intangable that makes people want to cheer for them.

A lot of people would put AJ on the same boat as Reigns, for example, as neither of the two have great mic skills, but AJ carries himself in a way that fits his character. People like him and Ambrose are comfortable in their characters and who they are (although some might argue that it took AJ a long time to find that).

All I know is, I don't have much of a knowledge about AJ Styles, but when he came out at the Rumble and did his sig pose, it just looked cool, and I wanted to cheer for him. He carried himself like AJ Styles.

Roman Reigns still carries himself like a Shield member. He has no individual qualities and he looks awkward and stiff.

He needs to find himself imo and be who Roman Reigns really is. That is his best shot at winning people over.

but that is who the Roman Reigns character is, he's stoic, he's a badass, that's why people cheered for him in The Shield. The problems arise when they try and shoe-horn him into Cena V2, he doesn't have the experience to pull that off yet. If you don't think Reigns has charisma, "that intangible that makes people want to cheer for him", or that he has no individual qualities, you're out of your tree.

[Maluco]

I honestly don't think he has natural charisma, and I am sure there are plenty of people who haven't seen that yet. He has a presence, yeah, but charisma? I am not so sure.

As for individual qualities, he has his size and his looks. He is a decent wrestler. He is a long way from having someone like Cena's personality and charisma. I don't think it's an absurd opinion to think that he is lacking star quality. He has had a sustained push for a long time now and has gotten meagre returns when you think about the length of time invested in him.

I am not saying he can't develop certain attributes, but he is a long way off and lacks experience, as you rightly say. But I also think the jury is out on if he is a star and don't think it's that radical to believe that at this stage.

[Nark Order]

It's just frustrating that they always talk about how you need to be the total package but then just always push jacked up guys that look good and can't talk.

[Simple Fan]

but that is who the Roman Reigns character is, he's stoic, he's a badass, that's why people cheered for him in The Shield. The problems arise when they try and shoe-horn him into Cena V2, he doesn't have the experience to pull that off yet. If you don't think Reigns has charisma, "that intangible that makes people want to cheer for him", or that he has no individual qualities, you're out of your tree.


I guess Im out of my tree then. I see no charisma in Reigns. The onlh thing that gets him cheers is the story line they have laid out for him. People dont want to cheer the Authority so by default they cheer Roman. Feel like if Ambrose had won the WWEWHC tournament and had the same storyline it would be white hot right now. Romans moveset is another thing that gets him cheers although I hate his finisher and the Superman punch. They have given him exciting moveset and he still cant get to where they want him to. His best work will probably be as a heel and they need to turn him soon in my opinion.

[Jaded-Dragon]

I mean this with all honesty, and I'm not normally one of these types of guys, but you know what I think would have helped get Roman over at the Rumble? Blood.

The Rumble was a perfect example of when blood can add something to a match. Having Roman walk out on his own, refusing the stretcher was a horrible move. Imagine him being wheeled to the back on a stretcher after each member of LoN took turns beating a bloody Roman Reigns, and then Vince came over and paint-brushed him a few times for good measure. Then you have a bandaged Roman limp back down to the ring later on to finish the Rumble.

I know, I know, It's PG. And that's part of the problem of all of this. All I'm saying is if you really want people to have sympathy for the guy, that may have gone a long way instead of getting what we got.

[CSL]

I honestly don't think he has natural charisma, and I am sure there are plenty of people who haven't seen that yet. He has a presence, yeah, but charisma? I am not so sure.

As for individual qualities, he has his size and his looks. He is a decent wrestler. He is a long way from having someone like Cena's personality and charisma. I don't think it's an absurd opinion to think that he is lacking star quality. He has had a sustained push for a long time now and has gotten meagre returns when you think about the length of time invested in him.

I am not saying he can't develop certain attributes, but he is a long way off and lacks experience, as you rightly say. But I also think the jury is out on if he is a star and don't think it's that radical to believe that at this stage.

I guess Im out of my tree then. I see no charisma in Reigns. The onlh thing that gets him cheers is the story line they have laid out for him. People dont want to cheer the Authority so by default they cheer Roman. Feel like if Ambrose had won the WWEWHC tournament and had the same storyline it would be white hot right now. Romans moveset is another thing that gets him cheers although I hate his finisher and the Superman punch. They have given him exciting moveset and he still cant get to where they want him to. His best work will probably be as a heel and they need to turn him soon in my opinion.

I feel like both of you are confusing "charisma" with "cutting good promos" or "being a loud character". Presence is basically another way of saying charisma. Go and look at any interview Roman has done away from WWE TV, where it isn't scripted to fit the current WWE storyline that they're trying to get over, where he isn't being kind of shoe-horned into a role he doesn't really fit. Go and stand in an arena when he makes an entrance and listen to the general buzz amongst the audience. And what are these meagre returns? Because a lot of the smart fans don't like him? Even they (well, most of them, there will always be a few that think they know better no matter what is being presented to them) would jump on board if he was consistently booked to his strengths.

As for "he only gets cheers because of the story line", that's ridiculous. He gets cheers because he has a connection with a large part of the audience. If it was really that simple, there would never be any failed pushes, heel or babyface, in the history of pro wrestling. It's like a lot of people are under the impression that WWE just chose Reigns at random and thought "we're going to make him a top guy" and that was literally all there was behind the thought process. If they'd have pushed say Neville for example against the Authority/in Reigns' spot, you would probably hears crickets in the audience. As for "moveset gets him cheers", come on. Why do wrestlers do moves again? To gain a reaction. That's kind of the entire point of a professional wrestling match, pro wrestling at it's absolute most basic. Roman Reigns is far from the finished product but he's just booked inconsistently. It's a WWE problem and will be until they either make up their mind about how they want to present him or just let him (attempt) to do his own thing. Don't confuse that stuff for him "bringing nothing to the table".

[Simple Fan]

Oh no I definitely feel like he could bring somthing to the table just not what they are wanting. He has the look obviously and yea he has some charisma, he showed it cutting the Macho Man memorial promo. I dont think he connects real well with the character they want him to portray. I liked him in the Shield and really didnt have a problem with Roman winning the Rumble last year. The result though was to much exposure for a guy that wasnt ready and it made me lose any intrest in him. His facial expressions at times bug the shit out of me as well.

When I think charisma I think about a superstar that can go out there and tae command of a audience. Some one that gains your total attention. I just dont think this character is charismatic, nothing has changed about him since Sheild and he doesnt show much personality. Ambrose and Rollins both got new personalities and some edge to their characters after Shield why didnt Roman. They try to make you feel sympathetic towards his character and thats not him. If he does have charisma it not in this gimmick.

[ron the dial]

you don't seem to grasp what charisma is

[Simple Fan]

No, charisma is somthing that attracts you to a superstar. You can be charismatic in many different ways. What is charismatic about the Roman Reigns character other than he enters through the crowd? Whats your definition of charisma?

[Maluco]

I feel like both of you are confusing "charisma" with "cutting good promos" or "being a loud character". Presence is basically another way of saying charisma. Go and look at any interview Roman has done away from WWE TV, where it isn't scripted to fit the current WWE storyline that they're trying to get over, where he isn't being kind of shoe-horned into a role he doesn't really fit. Go and stand in an arena when he makes an entrance and listen to the general buzz amongst the audience. And what are these meagre returns? Because a lot of the smart fans don't like him? Even they (well, most of them, there will always be a few that think they know better no matter what is being presented to them) would jump on board if he was consistently booked to his strengths ".


I get what you are saying. I have watched with casual fans though and people who only have a passing interest in the product nowadays, and I am just not as convinced as you seem to be.

Maybe you're right and better booking and more consistent logic would help him a ton. I think it almost definitely would. But even with that, there is a difference between becoming a star, and being THE star. Being THE star requires a tremendous amount of talent on behalf of the performer. Does he have that?

I also hear you on his character being more stoic and quiet, but I don't feel like I am confusing charisma and mic skills. Yes, he has a presence because of his size and his looks, but he looks uncomfortable at times, his natural charisma doesn't shine through for me and I don't see any sort of special atmosphere or feel like he is a star when he makes his entrance. It feels flat and it feels forced.

I am totally open to the idea that that is the booking though and that he is a diamond in the rough. I personally haven't seen that yet however.

[Mr. Nerfect]

what makes Ambrose a good guy, what make Balor a good guy, what makes Cesaro a good guy, what makes AJ a good guy etc

The point about them fighting bad guys is a good one -- and it's hard to find a good heel today -- but you could make a case for a lot of those guys having more depth than the Reigns character. More of a journey, more history and more fan respect.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

https://rdamon1982.wordpress.com/2016/01/30/road-to-wrestlemania-royal-rumble-2016-review/

My recap/review.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I agree with Maluco on the charisma discussion here. Charisma is a leadership quality that makes people want to go with you. Reigns doesn't have it. If he did, people wouldn't be rebuking.

CSL is right about Reigns being that stoic presence, but that's exactly the problem. They're trying to cast the brooding guy with the dark edge as Superman flying through the air to save women and children with a smile and a wink.

I jumped off the Cena bandwagon early and I fell off the Reigns one as soon as they tried pushing him to the front of the Shield group. It wasn't a natural transition for him, and Ambrose was the charisma of that group. Reigns worked well in that role, but he's not the top guy that they want him to be.

If they turned him heel, let him talk the way he wants to and be a champion with the world at his feet -- it'd fit the narrative of what's happening and actually allow Reigns to find himself as an individual. Maybe the charisma will be on show then. But right now, he's this guy with a body and hair that says movie one-liners.

I also suggest that the idea of what is charismatic is has changed in the public consciousness. If you look at fashion, entertainment and media, the world has changed sufficiently to the point where a guy like Kevin Nash couldn't make it today. That's not a jab at the Man's Greatness, but big guys that can't really do shit aren't seen as "cool" or even "tough" these days.

Luke Harper is a better candidate for a new age monster than Erick Rowan or Braun Strowman for this reason. Dean Ambrose or a babyface Seth Rollins have a better chance of grabbing people's imaginations than a Roman Reigns type in 2016. Just look at how The Usos are also floundering against the dorkish appeal of The New Day.

Genuine talent is becoming more charismatic than the ability to look like a god in today's age. Being loud and obnoxious isn't as cool as it was in the the late 90's either. Road Dogg would have to show something else to get Billy Gunn over in 2016.

That's just my hypothesis though. Feel free to beg to differ and tell me how Daniel Bryan got so over but Reigns is struggling.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'd argue that Sami Zayn has more charisma than Roman Reigns. It might even be partially because he doesn't have the look of a Greek God. Throwing it out there.

[Vastardikai]

Luke Harper is a better candidate for a new age monster than Erick Rowan or Braun Strowman for this reason.

I want to comment on this point alone, because you hit on something. Harper is the only follower of Wyatt who doesn't wear a mask of any sort. The reason is because you cover his face, you take away his expressions.

Rowan often looks angry in the ring. Strowman looks either stupid or lost. The masks is necessary for them. Harper looks insane.

Facial expressions are an underrated aspect of the sport/business, but an important one.

Harper understands this. Combine that with the fact that he is a large man, an underrated promo, and can work, and you have your New Age Monster. One only hopes Taker asks for Harper instead of Strowman. He's too old to be carrying some no talent hoss.

[Wehttam]

No, charisma is somthing that attracts you to a superstar. You can be charismatic in many different ways. What is charismatic about the Roman Reigns character other than he enters through the crowd? Whats your definition of charisma?

before the shield broke up, the crowd, smarks included, were popping hard for roman's character. his presence outshone the other two in his group. that is what gave the wwe a boner and tried to change things that was obviously working.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't really remember Reigns "outshining" Ambrose to be honest.

[Simple Fan]

Yeah, dont think he outshined Ambrose or Rollins but was the beneficiary of alot of hot tagsand the center of the triple power bomb. Sheild really showed his strengths but since then every thing has showed his weaknesses.

[Corndad]

Just wanted to point out after Wrestlemania, Reigns will most likely already be a 3 Time World Champ. Let that sink in

[Wehttam]

I don't really remember Reigns "outshining" Ambrose to be honest.

he was getting the biggest reactions

[Mr. Nerfect]

Maybe. I remember just thinking "Oh no. This is gonna suck."

[Savio]

I don't really remember Reigns "outshining" Ambrose to be honest.

They were popping hard for roman like right up until the sheld broke up

[Theo Dious]

They were popping hard for roman like right up until the sheld broke up

They were popping for him as the "hot tag guy." The heavy artillery to put the exclamation point on things. I really thought he and Dean should have remained closer for a while after the Shield split, it could have weaned Reigns off of that dependancy.

[Big Vic]

They were popping for him as the "hot tag guy.".yes i know

[Mr. Nerfect]

Weren't they popping hard for Ambrose too? The only guy I don't really remember having too much steam was Rollins, but we all knew he would do fine based on his ring work.

[Theo Dious]

That's why Rollins got the heat of turning on the group.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, I called the Seth heel turn. I'm just saying that I don't remember Reigns being this obvious star. He only really worked as the "cleaner" and it felt awkward when he was pushed to the front.

[Heisenberg]

If written and performed correctly, Dean Ambrose and Roman Reigns could showcase money as the main event at Mania. Roman hits on Renee, Renee revealed to be Dean's boo, Renee interviews the shit out of Roman and also is found by hotel staff to have interviewed the piss out of Roman behind doors. Insert Championships and all that crap, you have the main event of a Reality Era implemented WrestleMania

[Theo Dious]

Yeah, I called the Seth heel turn. I'm just saying that I don't remember Reigns being this obvious star. He only really worked as the "cleaner" and it felt awkward when he was pushed to the front.

I think the people who thought it was obvious thought so on the "well look at him" principle. Big Samoan fellow capable of a lot of big man power stuff.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Reigns vs. Ambrose could have been huge, but they pissed it away at Survivor Series last year. They could heat it up with Reigns taking everything from Ambrose though.