someone explain expresses to me

[harmsway]

What was the appeal here?

We're the guys from rock and roll express ever in good shape,or did they ever look hip? Even at the time their look was fairly whack. The trailer park mullets never great in or what? And the girls screaming in the little jcp Soundstage.....were these dudes considered attractive? Any homosexual please feel free to give insight


The midnight.... Bobby Eaton has to be one of the ugliest humans ever and was never in condition either.

Did anyone really vibe with these guys over the much better quality wwf tag teams of the time?

[Hanso Amore]

It was a time where most wrestlers were ugly slobs.

And look at the southern hick crowds they played to....They looked exactly the same.

Of course they thought the guys were cool.

[Theo Dious]

Alls I know is that the Orient Express was better than either of them.

[Theo Dious]

It was a time where most wrestlers were ugly slobs.

And look at the southern hick crowds they played to....They looked exactly the same.

Of course they thought the guys were cool.

Hillbilly pretty boys basically.

[Bad News Gertner]

The Rock and Rolls, especially Morton got more chicks than almost anyone in the history of wrestling. Top three are Morton, Flair and Tommy Rich.

Robert Gibson was one cross eyed ugly mother fucker.

[Bad News Gertner]

Alls I know is that the Orient Express was better than either of them.

That's not remotely true. Especially the Midnights, and I love Diamond and Tanaka.

[Bad News Gertner]

And who are these vastly superior WWF teams? The Bulldogs were blah post 1986. The only WWF team between 85-87 that measures up were the Hart Foundation.

[Shisen Kopf]

US Express was the best express tag team. Barry Windham and Mike Rotundo bc USA #1

[Shisen Kopf]

Can-Am express sucked bc of America's Hat ruining that team.

[Jordan]

I totally share this sentiment. I think in the case of The Midnight Express, they were ironic with their names and look. Rock 'n Roll Express... they were supposed to look like The Rocker's and to people who didn't know better they did. White trash dream boats. Do not underestimate he ignorance of southern pro wrestling fans.

[Jordan]

I think this is also and example of why WWF was always number one. They wouldn't push guys that look like that, even if the work rate is compromised. You can flip through the channel and see Ricky Morton or Robert Gibson and instantly be like "eh, pass"... Where if you flip through and see Shawn Michaels or Mart Janetty, or Barbarian, Warlord, Haku, Andre, Bossman, Akeem, Bret and Anvil with their interesting pink tights and different (but top level athletic) body types. You see a body like WWE produces and you might stop a little longer, because it's unique and interesting. A lot of NWA guys look like your plumber or mechanic. Maybe your high school gym teacher.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Gertner dropping some knowledge bombs.

[The CyNick]

Most (and by most I mean all) Southern wrasslin is unwatchable IMO. I have no idea how people who grew up on something other than WWE ever got into it.

[Bad News Gertner]

Midnights vs Fantastics/Rock and Rolls were pretty fun

[The CyNick]

I like the Money Pit. That is my response to that.

[Bad News Gertner]

Most (and by most I mean all) Southern wrasslin is unwatchable IMO. I have no idea how people who grew up on something other than WWE ever got into it.

Lol I'll bite. Describe southern wrestling

[Bad News Gertner]

I like the Money Pit. That is my response to that.

Midnights drew more money than any Tag Team in the 80's

[Mr. Nerfect]

This is going to be glorious. Gertner could run this guy off the forums if he wanted to. *slowly puts popcorn into mouth*

[Mr. Nerfect]

Midnights drew more money than any Tag Team in the 80's

I'd like to hear your sources on that. If it didn't come from Vince or Hunter...

[Bad News Gertner]

WWF tag teams never wrestled on top. Ever. The Midnights did pretty much from 84-87 in multiple places.(Mid South and Crockett). They were literally one step below Ric Flair.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If they were so good, why didn't Vince sign them? And why did southern wrestling go out of business? Maybe it's just that they weren't good enough to make money on such a big stage? True talent rises to the top.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't want to misrepresent CyNick's points here, but I feel that'd be about right.

[Bad News Gertner]

You know what, I would put the Road Warriors ahead.of the Midnights/RnR's in terms of drawing power in the 80's

[Mr. Nerfect]

You're probably right. They don't call it the Road Warrior Pop for nothing, baby.

[Bad News Gertner]

If they were so good, why didn't Vince sign them? And why did southern wrestling go out of business? Maybe it's just that they weren't good enough to make money on such a big stage? True talent rises to the top.

1. The Midnights actually met with Vince in the 80's but turned him down

2. WWF in the 80's was a big man territory, especially then.

3. They did draw on a big stage. Multiple stadium shows in Crocket/Mid-South. They weren't second on the card champs like teams in the WWF either.

Lol and I WAY prefer 80's WWF over WCW.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Sitting here, I actually don't know how many years the Road Warriors were on top. Also, just how long were the Midnight Express and Rock 'n' Roll going at it? Road Warriors seem instantly bigger, but Midnight Express and RnR is like still going at indy shows, isn't it?

[Mr. Nerfect]

1. The Midnights actually met with Vince in the 80's but turned him down

2. WWF in the 80's was a big man territory, especially then.

3. They did draw on a big stage. Multiple stadium shows in Crocket/Mid-South. They weren't second on the card champs like teams in the WWF either.

Lol and I WAY prefer 80's WWF over WCW.

1. Do you have Vince's word on that?

2. Too big for the biggest stars? Riiiight.

3. Were the stadiums full? You can probably credit that to the Hulk Hogan boom radiating down.

Am I doing it right, CyNick?

[Bad News Gertner]

Haha I know Gibson and Morton still wrestle. I don't know about Eaton. He's had a lot of health issues. Lane definitely doesn't.

[Bad News Gertner]

1. Do you have Vince's word on that?

2. Too big for the biggest stars? Riiiight.

3. Were the stadiums full? You can probably credit that to the Hulk Hogan boom radiating down.

Am I doing it right, CyNick?

That's where the famous dolls story comes from. Corny and the Express met with Vince to see what they were offering and what the plans for the team were, who they were feuding with. Vince's reply was "you're going to have dolls!".

[Shisen Kopf]

Haha I know Gibson and Morton still wrestle. I don't know about Eaton. He's had a lot of health issues. Lane definitely doesn't.

RIP Bobby Eaton

[Droford]

Are we counting Bodacious Bob and Bombastic Bart?

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol I actually liked the New Midnights

[Mr. Nerfect]

That's where the famous dolls story comes from. Corny and the Express met with Vince to see what they were offering and what the plans for the team were, who they were feuding with. Vince's reply was "you're going to have dolls!".

But you just have Cornette's word on that. ;)

[Mr. Nerfect]

Haha I know Gibson and Morton still wrestle. I don't know about Eaton. He's had a lot of health issues. Lane definitely doesn't.

Stan Lane is a god. He looks better now than most good looking men do in their primes.

[Bad News Gertner]

Sweet Stan The Doctor of Desire!

[Mr. Nerfect]

I want Sweet Stan's genes in my family tree.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Not a tag team, but Burke's "Elijah Express" (both knee pads pulled down, then a running double knee to opponent in corner) was pretty awesome.

[harmsway]

Who came first ,rock and roll express or the midnight rockers?

And what was the beef ricky Morton had with Kevin nash? How did their paths ever cross?

[Bad News Gertner]

Rock and Roll's came first.

Morton talked shit about Nash in a shoot. I'm pretty sure the whole thing is a work based on the little I know about it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think they sold out the Barclays Center together or something. Nash had charts.

[The CyNick]

I don't want to misrepresent CyNick's points here, but I feel that'd be about right.

CyNick approved.

You got a future here kid. Now carry my bags.

[The CyNick]

Lol I'll bite. Describe southern wrestling

Hmmm. Shitty production. Guys with average guy in the local gym type bodies. Old guys. Mullets. Small arenas that appear to have no risers. Jim Cornette. Blood. Small packages as finishes. Dark. Sweaty. Skinny mics. Cheap looking gear. Sound stages.

[The CyNick]

Midnights drew more money than any Tag Team in the 80's

Drawing on top in front of 800 people isn't the same as being 3rd from the top in front of 12k a night.

I'm not going to get into this because you will cite shit from the Observer, and I know that's not a factual publication.

[The CyNick]

1. The Midnights actually met with Vince in the 80's but turned him down

2. WWF in the 80's was a big man territory, especially then.

3. They did draw on a big stage. Multiple stadium shows in Crocket/Mid-South. They weren't second on the card champs like teams in the WWF either.

Lol and I WAY prefer 80's WWF over WCW.

How many stadium shows and what were the gates? You don't know, I don't know. Let's just say all these companies went out of business, so clearly these teams didn't do that well.

[The CyNick]

Haha I know Gibson and Morton still wrestle. I don't know about Eaton. He's had a lot of health issues. Lane definitely doesn't.

You would think with all that bank from all those stadium shows they would be living it up on an island somewhere.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

You would think the same of Hulk Hogan wouldn't you?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I mean who would ever think that wrestlers in the 80s, the smartest, classiest guys in the world ever, would be bad with their money. Completely preposterous.

[Seth82]

Jim Cornette and the Midnight Express were making six figures in the 80s.

Stan Lane doesn't need to work anymore. he's well off.

Cornette saved his money as well. he's basically semi-retired. pretty sure his comic book collection alone is probably worth thousands.

[Sixx]

Hmmm. Shitty production. Guys with average guy in the local gym type bodies. Old guys. Mullets. Small arenas that appear to have no risers. Jim Cornette. Blood. Small packages as finishes. Dark. Sweaty. Skinny mics. Cheap looking gear. Sound stages.

You do not talk shit about mullets, son.

[The CyNick]

You would think the same of Hulk Hogan wouldn't you?

About being rich? He had his money stolen by a dopey kid, a wannabe music career, and a vindictive wife.

Maybe these other guys had stacks and stacks, but they always looked poor to me. I know from court documents that Hogan was making a million a month at some point.

[The CyNick]

I mean who would ever think that wrestlers in the 80s, the smartest, classiest guys in the world ever, would be bad with their money. Completely preposterous.

Fair point. I just don't think they were as wealthy as WWE upper mid card guys. Could be wrong though.

I believe Flair did well, but not convinced many of guys who worked in the south were making mad coin. Just looking at those audiences in guessing people didn't pay more than $5 for a ticket.

[The CyNick]

Jim Cornette and the Midnight Express were making six figures in the 80s.

Stan Lane doesn't need to work anymore. he's well off.

Cornette saved his money as well. he's basically semi-retired. pretty sure his comic book collection alone is probably worth thousands.

So he was paid in comic books for headlining "multiple stadium shows". I think you proved my theory.

[Seth82]

So he was paid in comic books for headlining "multiple stadium shows". I think you proved my theory.

he's a collector you moron.

you are professional troll I suppose.

[The CyNick]

You do not talk shit about mullets, son.

What about wife beaters, run down pickups, mangy dogs, and cousin lovin?

I'm very grateful to be a northerner. I was introduced to proper sports entertainment and never owned a mesh hat.

[The CyNick]

he's a collector you moron.

you are professional troll I suppose.

Oh so the point you brought up about his 4 figure comic book collection has no relevance to this conversation. Got it.

[Bad News Gertner]

Hmmm. Shitty production. Guys with average guy in the local gym type bodies. Old guys. Mullets. Small arenas that appear to have no risers. Jim Cornette. Blood. Small packages as finishes. Dark. Sweaty. Skinny mics. Cheap looking gear. Sound stages.

You do realize that the WWF were wrestling in high school gyms, Knights of Columbus's etc... during the 80's right? With lots of old wrestlers and shitty production.

[Bad News Gertner]

How many stadium shows and what were the gates? You don't know, I don't know. Let's just say all these companies went out of business, so clearly these teams didn't do that well.

Oh my friend, you bit off more than you can chew. I'll get you have attendance figures when I get home from work with gates.

[Bad News Gertner]

Drawing on top in front of 800 people isn't the same as being 3rd from the top in front of 12k a night.

I'm not going to get into this because you will cite shit from the Observer, and I know that's not a factual publication.

How about actual attendance figures? Dude, you don't know a thing about how wrestling was in the 80's. This is going to be fun.

[Bad News Gertner]

Midnights made $225,000 in 1987 by the way. Little fyi.

[The CyNick]

You do realize that the WWF were wrestling in high school gyms, Knights of Columbus's etc... during the 80's right? With lots of old wrestlers and shitty production.

I started going to wrestling in something like 85. It was always at Maple Leaf Gardens, which was a big arena. I also saw an event at the baseball field, which had north of 30k people. So maybe sine shows were still in barns, but not the big ones, and not the ones on TV.

From seeing what I think of as southern wrasslin on TV, it looked like it was done in a high school gym or a sound stage with 40 people on hand. If that's your TV, i'm guessing spot shows were in some dives. I dont doubt the odd show would take place in a minor league ballpark, but what was the gates for those shows?

[The CyNick]

How about actual attendance figures? Dude, you don't know a thing about how wrestling was in the 80's. This is going to be fun.

Yeah and you're going to pretend the Observer has actual gate figures.

Here's what will happen. You will post a bunch of numbers that are made up by liars and people who tried to make a living working marks like you. Then everyone on here will claim your "facts" are correct and say I got "owned". So I'll save you the trouble.

The one fact that is indisputable is that most of these sourhern rasslin promotions are now the dusty part of WWEs library. Not the other way around.

[The CyNick]

Midnights made $225,000 in 1987 by the way. Little fyi.

You were their accountant?

[Bad News Gertner]

They had guarenteed contracts.

[Bad News Gertner]

Yeah and you're going to pretend the Observer has actual gate figures.

Here's what will happen. You will post a bunch of numbers that are made up by liars and people who tried to make a living working marks like you. Then everyone on here will claim your "facts" are correct and say I got "owned". So I'll save you the trouble.

The one fact that is indisputable is that most of these sourhern rasslin promotions are now the dusty part of WWEs library. Not the other way around.

You won't see me quote the Observer once nor the Torch or any dirt sheet

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Fair point. I just don't think they were as wealthy as WWE upper mid card guys. Could be wrong though.

I believe Flair did well, but not convinced many of guys who worked in the south were making mad coin. Just looking at those audiences in guessing people didn't pay more than $5 for a ticket.

You are stupid.

[Bad News Gertner]

I started going to wrestling in something like 85. It was always at Maple Leaf Gardens, which was a big arena. I also saw an event at the baseball field, which had north of 30k people. So maybe sine shows were still in barns, but not the big ones, and not the ones on TV.

From seeing what I think of as southern wrasslin on TV, it looked like it was done in a high school gym or a sound stage with 40 people on hand. If that's your TV, i'm guessing spot shows were in some dives. I dont doubt the odd show would take place in a minor league ballpark, but what was the gates for those shows?

The WWF used to hold shows at Mosques and their T.V tapings were notorious for looking like shit until late 1986 . I have them all saved in my computer

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

About being rich? He had his money stolen by a dopey kid, a wannabe music career, and a vindictive wife.

Maybe these other guys had stacks and stacks, but they always looked poor to me. I know from court documents that Hogan was making a million a month at some point.

He lost his money because he wasn't good with it. Those guys in the 80s had very similar problems with ex wives and dumb children as well as living beyond their means. Your stupidity is just unruly.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

My favourite thing about cynick is he's accusing Gertner of.having poor sources and not.using facts, and all the info he is getting is from worked wwe docs

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

This thread is the height of cynicks lack of troll depth.

[Bad News Gertner]

Which promotions/eras are you a fan of Cynick? Just curious.

[Shisen Kopf]

I'd he doesn't say CHW then to hell with him!

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Cynick I'm pretty sure is a late 90s early 2000s Japan mark. From what I remember if him when he used to make actual posts.

[The CyNick]

They had guarenteed contracts.

And their contacts were made public?

[The CyNick]

The WWF used to hold shows at Mosques and their T.V tapings were notorious for looking like shit until late 1986 . I have them all saved in my computer

Great. Then Hulk Hogan and Vince took the thing into large arenas and never looked back. Let's not pretend like Bruno didn't fill MSG on a regular basis. NY has always been the big time.

[The CyNick]

He lost his money because he wasn't good with it. Those guys in the 80s had very similar problems with ex wives and dumb children as well as living beyond their means. Your stupidity is just unruly.

I highly doubt all these Express guys had sons who crippled people in car wrecks.

I dont doubt lots of guys in the 80s were bad with money. But I don't see the evidence that they were top guy in WWE rich. I look forward to reading their contacts that you are planning to provide.

[The CyNick]

My favourite thing about cynick is he's accusing Gertner of.having poor sources and not.using facts, and all the info he is getting is from worked wwe docs

The only things I've really cited are events I personally attended. I dont know exactly how many people the A tour drew in the 80s, but I used to see highlights on TV, and the events were in legit venues and looked full. The tapes Ive seen from southern wrasslin usually looks like they were done in venues that didn't have proper lighting. Maybe there were a lot of people at these events but they were helping to keep the hand crank generator running and not on the hard camera.

[The CyNick]

Which promotions/eras are you a fan of Cynick? Just curious.

Not trying to troll, but I could only ever stomach WWF/E.

i grew up on WWE in the 80s (Superstars, SNME, Maple Leaf Wrestling). Maybe it's because i didn't grow up in some backwoods town, I grew up going to big venues to see big stars. I did watch WCW when my family got cable, and obviously watched Nitro in the 90s.

As an adult I tried to appreciate other ptomotions, but they all seemed bush league. You know how Jim Cornette dresses? That's how those promotions came off to me.

[The CyNick]

Cynick I'm pretty sure is a late 90s early 2000s Japan mark. From what I remember if him when he used to make actual posts.

Haha. No.

[Bad News Gertner]

And their contacts were made public?

Cornette printed them off in his book.

[Bad News Gertner]

Great. Then Hulk Hogan and Vince took the thing into large arenas and never looked back. Let's not pretend like Bruno didn't fill MSG on a regular basis. NY has always been the big time.

I try to seperate pre-Hogan and Hogan as a champ. Tough to compare the two, but yes MSG was it.

[Bad News Gertner]

Cynick actually seems like he would be great to converse with. I'd love to talk some old Maple Leaf Wrestling. What cards did you make it to Cynick.

[The CyNick]

Cynick actually seems like he would be great to converse with. I'd love to talk some old Maple Leaf Wrestling. What cards did you make it to Cynick.

The first one at MLG that sticks out was Savage v Dibiase for the belt. Don't remember the date or anything. Everything before that is a blur of random matches. Except Hogan-Wonderful at Exhibition Stadium. I just remember that because it wasn't at MLG and I couldn't see the ring.

[Bad News Gertner]

Yeah The Big Event. I just re watched it recently. Lol not the best show.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Oh no gertner and Nick will be best friends forever and reek havock on the wrassling forum

[Bad News Gertner]

The Unholy Alliance.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

The Unholy Alliance.

Lol my biggest beef is he spends more time trolling than talking about anything wrestling. Fucking love when Gerry gives wrestling lessons. Also find 80s wrestling mad intriguing, whether it be Wwf or nwa/Mid south. Haven't seen a ton but pro wrestling history is Fucking incredible.

Also to imply Hogan and Vince never looked back kind of ignored the steroid trial and aftermath quite a bit, plus all the other sexual assault scandals. Nick obviously has a wealth of knowledge, has remembered every wwe platitude of bullshit and just says it. Super Fucking annoying.

[The CyNick]

Also to imply Hogan and Vince never looked back kind of ignored the steroid trial and aftermath quite a bit, plus all the other sexual assault scandals. Nick obviously has a wealth of knowledge, has remembered every wwe platitude of bullshit and just says it. Super Fucking annoying.

They never looked back in the sense that business overall increased from the 80s to now. No doubt there were ups and downs, but most of that was caused by the governments witch hunt against WWE.

[Bad News Gertner]

Who's Gerry?

[The CyNick]

The Unholy Alliance.

I think Rob is the only person I met from here. He liked me.

[Bad News Gertner]

They never looked back in the sense that business overall increased from the 80s to now. No doubt there were ups and downs, but most of that was caused by the governments witch hunt against WWE.

I forget who said this. Wrestling is entertainment, the same way movies are. Why aren't movie stars drug tested and wrestlers are. It might have been Raven.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Didn't Stallone get caught with a bunch of steroids and shit not too long ago?

[ron the dial]

i think they were still governed by state athletic commissions at the time, which may have had something to do with it then. are they still? i can't imagine they are.

[Bad News Gertner]

Some state athletic commissions are WAY more strict than others.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Who's Gerry?

ur Gerry.... HELLO!

[Bad News Gertner]

The most money the Midnights ever got for a payoff was $10,000 each for Starcade 86 and 87.

Pretty solid paydays. Not Hogan money but nothing to sneeze at. I actually saw the Midnights $225,000. 1988 WCW contract somewhere on the internet but I can't for the life of me remember where.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

(that was me trying to do Uncle Leo)

I personally grew up on WWF. Younger than you lads though. First show was Maple Leaf Gardens in 1992, main event Bret vs Yoko. Place was fucking packed.

Honestly, i think it is super ignorant to believe that the only game in town ever was wwf. I think some of the territories did great business but their methods were archaic and would have been smart to work with Vince, who clearly in the 80s had the right idea in mind. But to think he was the only guy to get wrestling out of dingy arenas, is fucking retarded.

Was actually thrilled when WWF put wcw out of business because wcw turned into a farce. I was also 14 years old and realized variety is the spice of life. Think WWE would be infinitely better with real competition. People need real main stream options. Not fucking ROH and TNA. Maybe WWE would appreciates its fans more with competition, and maybe with fans would appreciate WWE more.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

The most money the Midnights ever got for a payoff was $10,000 each for Starcade 86 and 87.

Pretty solid paydays. Not Hogan money but nothing to sneeze at. I actually saw the Midnights $225,000. 1988 WCW contract somewhere on the internet but I can't for the life of me remember where.

I'm assuming Hogan was pulling in a couple mil a year?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

225 grand in the 1980s is a lot of fucking money

[Bad News Gertner]

I'm assuming Hogan was pulling in a couple mil a year?

So many numbers have been thrown out. The number that makes the most sense and what I've heard is Hogan made slighty over 1 million in 1987.

[harmsway]

Is ricky Morton a credible source of what he made? On his I hate Kevin nash YouTube rant he said his best year ever in the business was making 120k

[Bad News Gertner]

Yeah I heard that number as well from Ricky. Then again, it's Ricky Morton and he's probably saying a low number to avoid paying more child support for his 3000 kids.

[harmsway]

Whether you are pro southern rasslin or anti cynick or both....

Bischoff has said multiple times how he needed to get the southern feel out of wrestling to be a success, and then once he did wcw became number 1 for a short while. Cant be a coincidence

[Fignuts]

Ricky Morton has done so much cocaine he probably can'teven remember his phone number at this point, let alone what he made in a given year.

[Seth82]

I just love how people act like WWF and its wrestlers were the only ones running major arenas and making thousands or more.

World Class was doing major supercards during the holidays that drew huge crowds at Reunion Arena in Dallas.

Stan Hansen in Japan was making as much money compared to a football player here in the US.

World Class also innovated the production values that WWE gets credit for. look at WCCW tv from 1983 and then go look at WWE's.

[Sixx]

I just love how people act like WWF and its wrestlers were the only ones running major arenas and making thousands or more.

World Class was doing major supercards during the holidays that drew huge crowds at Reunion Arena in Dallas.

Stan Hansen in Japan was making as much money compared to a football player here in the US.

World Class also innovated the production values that WWE gets credit for. look at WCCW tv from 1983 and then go look at WWE's.

I am no expert, but I doubt this like fuck.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

They had the best theme song of the 80s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z54m70y7bDA

[Bad News Gertner]

I am no expert, but I doubt this like fuck.

NFL players weren't rolling in the dough in the 80's with a few exceptions.