OFFICIAL WWE TLC 2017 THREAD - NOW FEATURING 78,956% MORE MENINGITIS IN THE MAIN EVENT!

[KIRA]

Kanes dominance is to show what he'll do to crime in your city should you elect him mayor

[Anybody Thrilla]

Kurt knows how to break a table.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Can't wait to see Braun come out in tactical gear.

Bravo
Romeo
Alpha
Uniform
November

Zt_wk6Cw4VI

[Dark One]

Kurt Angle for champ.

I don't give a shit. Kurt vs Brock at Mania since Roman has AIDS.

[Droford]

Kurta gonna beat Miz lol

[KIRA]

So the story of Miz team is that they are highly unstable

[Sepholio]

LOL Miz peeking over the edge of the ring

[owenbrown]

Kurt Angle for champ.

I don't give a shit. Kurt vs Brock at Mania since Roman has AIDS.

Only if Brock does a Shooting Star Press that ACTUALLY CONNECTS

[Dark One]

Kurt STILL the master of the 2.999999 kickout.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Kanes dominance is to show what he'll do to crime in your city should you elect him mayor

Or in this case, your county. (Knox Co., TN)

[GD]

Ouch, bad way to exit the ring, Angle.

[Emperor Smeat]

This might be the best clusterfuck of a match I've ever seen in the WWE.

[Emperor Smeat]

Wow Angle got super lucky with that tumble to the outside.

[DAMN iNATOR]

KURT! GET THE TABLES!!!

[Anybody Thrilla]

Well that was fun.

[Sepholio]

stream doesn't screw up all night until right now >_<

[KIRA]

Or in this case, your county. (Knox Co., TN)

I stand corrected

[Droford]

In retrospect that was stupid

[Dark One]

Kurt Angle is a national treasure.

God bless meningitis.

[Dark One]

In retrospect that was stupid

Ur stupid.

[DAMN iNATOR]

I stand corrected

Not trying to be a know it all...just pointing it out because I'm a nerd like that. :p

[owenbrown]

Time for a celebration

https://media.giphy.com/media/2SRd6zwpLH20/giphy.gif

[KIRA]

lol Angle just wrecking the Bar

[KIRA]

Not trying to be a know it all...just pointing it out because I'm a nerd like that. :p

no its cool

[Triple A]

extremely bizarre but very entertaining match

[GD]

The main event was fun.

[Sepholio]

I think that was the best clusterfuck I've ever seen.

[rez]

WWE accidentally totes redeemed themselves for now with this PPV. WOW.

[Evil Vito]

Weirdest main event I've ever seen. I liked it.

[slik]

That match was a trainwreck -- but -- I never looked away from it

[DAMN iNATOR]

In retrospect that was stupid

Only stupid thing was not doing the triple powerbomb to Miz through the announce table in reference to them doing that to Punk. Still a 10/5 main event though.

[RP]

That Main Event was pretty awesome.

[slik]

Or in this case, your county. (Knox Co., TN)

TY for that clarification DAMN man!

[KIRA]

god that was fun

[Jordan]

Yeah total trainwreck but it was really cool, fun so yeah, good show with two really good matches.

[Sepholio]

The best part of the show was the lack of Roman Reigns.

[rez]

Bray should infect the roster more often!

[DAMN iNATOR]

WWE accidentally totes redeemed themselves for now with this PPV. WOW.

okMuq-NSq0M

[KIRA]

Tomorrow night BRUAN is gonna come out hauling the garbage truck on his back

completely destroyed of course

[Anybody Thrilla]

I didn't think there were any bad matches.

[Jordan]

AJ Styles is WWE's MVP. Listening to him on Talking Smack is so enjoyable, he's the man.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Bray should infect the roster more often!

I dunno. Don't want him getting sick in Sister Abigail mode and giving all the women HPV.

[Evil Vito]

I wonder how much of the match booking they changed in the past two days. The crowd would've taken a heaping dump on Roman getting to be the hero after being walked out by trainers.

[slik]

RAW hasn't had a bad brand-only ppv in 2017

[Triple A]

AJ Styles talking about how he has barely slept because of all the last minute travel... pretty impressive... he looks like he is dying though... eyes all bloodshot

[KIRA]

Bray is actually the horseman of Plague all his bullshit was true he took out the roster and forced RAW to put on a really fun show

[rez]

okMuq-NSq0M

That's the scene I was channeling. Good catch.

[KIRA]

AJ gonna collapse into bed he looks like he really needs 8hrs

[slik]

AJ Styles is WWE's MVP. Listening to him on Talking Smack is so enjoyable, he's the man.

Not sure how long Styles will stay in WWE but so far the guy's been incredible since he joined. At this rate he'll be a HOF'r based on his WWE work alone if he keeps it up.

[KIRA]

Aj I like you don't get on your Jesus roll and go to bed

[DAMN iNATOR]

WTF...RAW TALK just cut off on me and its showing the Kickoff graphic...anyone else?

[DAMN iNATOR]

OK, we're back.

[rez]

Aj I like you don't get on your Jesus roll and go to bed

agree. don't channel the heel jesus, aj.

[rez]

That was a really good PPV overall. Kudos talent and writers.

[DAMN iNATOR]

I thought I was ready for Asuka, but my short-term memory is not, at least not yet. I keep picturing her match in my mind's eye with Nelly ft. Tim McGraw's "Over and Over Again" playing over it...she could go S long way in REALLY elevating the RAW Women's Division...just hope she doesn't end up misused or lost in the shuffle.

[Tom Guycott]

Alicia Fox is actually pretty tight. I wish they would let her go all the way with the crazy thing again. Back when she was throwing drinks and stealing hats, etc.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/6ca4d27e67db47e6bfeb10e17350a35f/tumblr_n79znqQbrk1tc8g96o1_500.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/jpl5PW6HhKqfS/giphy.gif

[rez]

I thought I was ready for Asuka, but my short-term memory is not, at least not yet. I keep picturing her match in my mind's eye with Nelly ft. Tim McGraw's "Over and Over Again" playing over it...she could go S long way in REALLY elevating the RAW Women's Division...just hope she doesn't end up misused or lost in the shuffle.

https://i.imgur.com/vncZ8J3.gif

[Tom Guycott]

Feels surreal to read a post by Drebin in casual about Supermarket Sweep this afternoon and then see Elias get interrupted twice by Jordan tossing produce at him from a shopping cart.

Confirmed: Drebin is Porkchop Jones.

[Tom Guycott]

But Bo Dallas is Patient Zero how'd he get to him?

Bad writing, that's how.

[Destor]

AJ gonna collapse into bed he looks like he really needs 8hrs

agree. don't channel the heel jesus, aj.

Intolerance is a cancer

[#1-norm-fan]

I thought I was ready for Asuka, but my short-term memory is not, at least not yet. I keep picturing her match in my mind's eye with Nelly ft. Tim McGraw's "Over and Over Again" playing over it...she could go S long way in REALLY elevating the RAW Women's Division...just hope she doesn't end up misused or lost in the shuffle.

What in the fuck are you talking about...

[Tom Guycott]

I wonder how much of the match booking they changed in the past two days. The crowd would've taken a heaping dump on Roman getting to be the hero after being walked out by trainers.

To be fair, I don't think that would've happened to risk the negative response of him being CHEERED while carted off and BOOED at the return. There likely would have been more to that Braun "face turn", though to take those two out of the equation for a proper 3 on 3.

[#1-norm-fan]

I was under the impression that Kane attacked Braun, thus turning KANE face.

Is Braun the one who turned? If so, probably for the best. WWE has rushed through Braun's story pretty quickly to the point where if they keep him heel then come WrestleMania season he'd just be used to build up the "main match" guys.

Might as well get some mileage out of him as a true face.

[Tom Guycott]

Didn't watch the whole thing, but one of the announcers made mention of Braun may/may not have attacked Kane by accident. So then, Kane kinda gave Braun a big "fuck you" with the chokeslam and chair burial.

What prevented this from being a Kane turn either way was the fact that Kane went right back to helping Miz and The Bar before Braun came back for more, tossing his teammates aside and going straight for Kane... which led to all four heels attacking Braun and stuffing him into the veichle d'jour (ambulances and firetrucks and paddy waggons have all been uses, so hey, why not a garbage truck). Kane is still supposed to be heel, here.

My guess is that Kane's return was supposed to be a setup for a believable Braun face turn (to finally roll along with the pops he's been getting in spite of clearly being booked as a heel). Don't know where they go after a Kane feud, but hopefully they don't try to sugarcoat Braun and just let him do his thing and remain over. I would have also guessed that would have been a much slower transition, as all the focus here would originally have been to get people to accept Roman more, but in lieu of his absence, I guess they might have pulled that trigger sooner than later.

[Droford]

Shame Sandows gone. Coulda done team Brains and Braun..

[Tom Guycott]

Okay, this bothers me: Kurt Angle has not "been out of the ring for 11 years". Just because you don't want to acknowledge their time elsewhere doesn't mean they fell off the fucking planet.

And he did stuff outside of TNA, so they can just use the generic "all over the world" shit they use for folks like AJ and Nakamura. But pretending Kurt Angle stopped existing after 2006 is less believable than Porkchop Jones being his seed.

[Sepholio]

Didn't watch the whole thing, but one of the announcers made mention of Braun may/may not have attacked Kane by accident. So then, Kane kinda gave Braun a big "fuck you" with the chokeslam and chair burial.

Braun didn't attack Kane by accident. Kane attacked Braun earlier in the match "by accident" with a chair when either Rollins or Ambrose ducked out of the way. Braun pushed him after that, then Miz calmed them both down. Later on, Kane was getting handled by Rollins and Ambrose on the stage and Braun basically saved Kanes ass then Kane attacked him out of nowhere, hit the chokeslam, then the chair burial. Braun then got up and Miz tried to stop him, so he attack Miz, then he attacked Sheamus, Cesaro and Kane. All 4 then ganged up on him and threw him in the trash truck.

If its a turn, it's clearly a Braun face turn. They should have had him been the one to triple powerbomb Miz at the end with Shield/Angles help, and then let Angle get the pin as Strowman marches to the back.

[Sixx]

Shitty card definetely. Really, Eno Amore again? Gah. Also, who the fuck is Jason Alexander? Or Rich Swann? Jesus.

[#1-norm-fan]

Jason Alexander gonna be main eventing WrestleMania against Roman Reigns in a couple years and you're gonna be like "ROCK WHO?"

[Sixx]

Oh. Jobbing to Roman Reigns. Fantastic. I still no idea who that is but I'ma google.

[Sixx]

Ah, ok. A ginger. Pass.

[#1-norm-fan]

I actually wasn't sure if you were referring to Cedric Alexander or Jason Jordan but either one worked for my reference about WWE not being able to make new stars and how either one could easily be main eventing WrestleMania soon.

Now that you said "A ginger" though, I'm really curious about who you were talking about and what you Googled.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I was thinking of the actor who played George in Seinfeld, but he's not ginger...

[Mr. Nerfect]

I was genuinely interested to check out this show, but thought I would check out reviews first. Glad I did before I spent the investment. Nice try, WWE. You almost got me.

Doesn't seem like a "real return" for Angle yet. He will be back and do other things, but they've saved the pomp and circumstance for when it might matter. This kind of reminds me of HBK wrestling in jeans at SummerSlam 2002, or the brown hair and bob at Survivor Series that same year.

[#1-norm-fan]

If it seemed anything like HBK at SummerSlam 2002, I'd be jumping on watching this match in an instant.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I was genuinely interested to check out this show, but thought I would check out reviews first. Glad I did before I spent the investment. Nice try, WWE. You almost got me.

Doesn't seem like a "real return" for Angle yet. He will be back and do other things, but they've saved the pomp and circumstance for when it might matter. This kind of reminds me of HBK wrestling in jeans at SummerSlam 2002, or the brown hair and bob at Survivor Series that same year.

Here is my review

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[Mr. Nerfect]

If it seemed anything like HBK at SummerSlam 2002, I'd be jumping on watching this match in an instant.

Not it terms of quality. Just in terms of a guy showing up and making you wonder just what he's going to be like, and kind of back-pocketing some of that "real return" magic.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Forgot to mention it earlier, but strange as it was, this card shakes out as a VERY strong contender for PPV of the year, and I'm absolutely 100% serious.

My grade is an A-. If they'd maybe had Kalisto and Enzo have a ladder match and/or had the CW tag be an elimination tables match, we'd be talking A to possibly even A+ territory.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Here is my review

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Whew... For a second there I worried you might give it a "Sit, Ubu, sit. Good dog! (dog barks)"/10.

[#1-norm-fan]

@DAMNiNATOR: How concerned are you about Asuka being misused/lost in the shuffle on the main roster?

Because the last time we discussed this you were quite judgmental about me thinking the main roster might ruin her. And now one match in, you seem to be skeptical. I'm wondering what changed.

[Ruien]

I was genuinely interested to check out this show, but thought I would check out reviews first. Glad I did before I spent the investment. Nice try, WWE. You almost got me.

Doesn't seem like a "real return" for Angle yet. He will be back and do other things, but they've saved the pomp and circumstance for when it might matter. This kind of reminds me of HBK wrestling in jeans at SummerSlam 2002, or the brown hair and bob at Survivor Series that same year.

What? Most people really enjoyed the ppv. Everyone enjoyed the main event.

[Sepholio]

I dunno wtf Noid is on about. The show was pretty damn good. Angle may have been gone for a chunk of the match, but he took bumps, he delivered his moves with excellence, and he looked pretty damn good from what we saw of him. I think him even leaving for a bit could be construed as building something with Braun, not necessarily for a feud, but for character development and future interactions between them backstage, like Braun getting what he wants from Kurt under threat of maiming.

Regardless of all that, the main event alone was worth the price of admission. I said it before and I'll say it again: That might just have been the best clusterfuck I've ever seen.

[erickman]

too bad bischoffs podcast went mia I want to hear his take on the garbage truck

[Simple Fan]

I only watched Styles/Balor and the main event. Both were good matches and I didn't care about the rest the matches. AJ vs Finn was great but I don't think it's the best AJ/Finn match we'll see. Both have way more in their bags of tricks and I'd love to see a rematch at Wrestlemania.

Only complaint I had with the main event was when Angle returned I wish he was in his ring gear. Might not have had any ready on short notice, not sure. Him starting in Shield gear was cool but really thought he'd return in full USA attire.

[Destor]

Only complaint I had with the main event was when Angle returned I wish he was in his ring gear. Might not have had any ready on short notice, not sure. Him starting in Shield gear was cool but really thought he'd return in full USA attire.That would have been sooooooo dumb lol

[Simple Fan]

That would have been sooooooo dumb lol

Why? I thought it was a given once he left. (they've really over used that concept recently) Thought they'd take the tactical gear off to examine him and he'd return true Kurt Angle.

[Savio]

Kurt should have come back naked

[Anybody Thrilla]

I think you guys are overthinking the Kane/Braun thing. Seemed to me like Kane came back to take out Roman Reigns and avenge his fallen brother (which Roman brags about all the time). As far as what happened in the actual match, Kane and Braun have both always been presented as unstable, so they can attack anyone at any time and it won't really indicate an alignment change. Since Roman couldn't make the match, they shoehorned in Angle, who they probably didn't want going TOO hard...so they take him out of the match completely for ten to fifteen minutes, and they needed a way to not make it a 2 on 5 stomping. Play to the mosters' insecurities until you're ready for Angle to come back, and there you go.

[Destor]

Why? I thought it was a given once he left. (they've really over used that concept recently) Thought they'd take the tactical gear off to examine him and he'd return true Kurt Angle.
"Im so hurt I dont think I cant continue"


"Lemme change my clothes real fast tho"

[Anybody Thrilla]

"Im so hurt I dont think I cant continue"


"Lemme change my clothes real fast tho"

Also, they were approaching the time limit. Had to be quick about it. :shifty:

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Just watching some of the event now. I wonder if Swann and Cedric were given more of a clearance to fly because they were certainly more flippy than they have been since 205 Live was a thing.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Whenever i get powerslammed thru a table i throw on a singlet and i feel 100 per cent better. It holds you in place after the bodily trauma has been sustained.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I also feel like I should reiterate that I really enjoyed TLC. There were literally ZERO bad matches, and it was a lot of fun. :y:

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Feel like you have a huge personal investment in liking wwe

[Anybody Thrilla]

I really don't. I do really enjoy it a lot, though. Is that gonna be OK?

[#BROKEN Hasney]

I'm liking the buzz around the crowd for TLC too. There's been loud crowds, but with all the last minute changes, the crowd just has a different energy about them.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I really don't. I do really enjoy it a lot, though. Is that gonna be OK?

Nope. We are mortal enemas now.

[Evil Vito]

The tag match was the best cruiser match they've had in a while. I have to give props to Jack Gallagher. Wrestling in a suit has gotta suck ass.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Story of my life.

[Anybody Thrilla]

The tag match was the best cruiser match they've had in a while. I have to give props to Jack Gallagher. Wrestling in a suit has gotta suck ass.

Word. Those shoes have got to be torture. Hopefully they're at least slip resistant.

[Simple Fan]

"Im so hurt I dont think I cant continue"


"Lemme change my clothes real fast tho"

I just figured he'd have the singlet on underneath the Shield gear. Wouldn't need to change. They did take the vest he had on off. I wasn't a big deal I just tji k it would have made his reentrance better.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Loved Finn Very An, easily Finn's best match since joining WWE. The main event was an overbooked mess, but in an almost endearing way. Think it worked out better without Roman and I don't mean that in a shifting on Roman way, but the Angle slams and Seth and Dean doing the double spear through the barricade instead of the Roman one were fun spots.

Probably one of the best WWE PPVs in some time. I said it when it was announced: Panic WWE is best WWE.

[Stickman]

I would not call that a great ppv by any stretch, it’s was ok-good though. It honestly seemed like good Raw. Anytime the main event is a clusterfuck the POV goes down a notch. When the announcer said Demon Baylor never lost I knew that was it for AJ. I fast forward through the cruiser weights cuz lol cruiserweights. Asuka didn’t really excite me but thought it was a good match. Was hoping Mickie James won. Elias is the future and so is JASON Jordon. But yeah, not the worst ppv but definitely not a great one.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

The cruiser tag match was the second best match on the show for me, so you might get that impression of you fast forwarded it.

[Fignuts]

This match will probably be tight.

Also, why do all black people have to be friends?

Oh that's funny. I don't see you making a similar comment every time they pair white dudes together.

Once again the plight of the white man is completely ignored for the SJW diatribe.

[rockman725]

My quick thoughts on the event: pretty good, not great, but pretty good. I know the Elias/Jordan stuff was to fill time, but honestly, I thought that really killed a lot of the momentum of the show building up to the main event. AJ/Balor was a great match for what it was... can't wait to see what they'd do with a belt on the line. I was shocked to see Kurt do as much as he did. Unless they are going to run with a longer physical storyline between he & Miz, I really didn't think it was necessary for him to score the fall, but whatever. Kurt is a better Roman Reigns than Roman Reigns, that's for sure!

On Raw Talk, Kurt mentioned that he "asked Daniel Bryan for a favor" regarding AJ and eluded to owing him one in return. After seeing how it went down last night (and a stronger possibility of WWE granting DB one last match), my thoughts on a potential Wrestlemania match between Kurt & Bryan have grown. I can easily see DB call out Angle for that return favor for a bout on "the grandest stage of 'em all." At the very least, you can have HHH (fighting for Steph) & Kurt vs. Shane & DB. Makes total sense. Have HHH & Shane do more of the physical stuff and have Kurt & DB stay more mat-based wrestling.

[Ruien]

They just had 4 white dude team up with a monster from hell. That is diversity.

[Ruien]

Oh that's funny. I don't see you making a similar comment every time they pair white dudes together.

Once again the plight of the white man is completely ignored for the SJW diatribe.

They just had 4 white dude team up with a monster from hell. That is diversity.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Shut the fuck up.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

And here I was thinking all black people were friends. Damn.

[Sepholio]

CACAW CACAW

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Oh shit, is Raven entering?

[Mr. Nerfect]

What? Most people really enjoyed the ppv. Everyone enjoyed the main event.

Reviews I got were mixed and actually quite underwhelmed by the main event.

[Mr. Nerfect]

"Im so hurt I dont think I cant continue"


"Lemme change my clothes real fast tho"

You're right, but also:

"Kurt Angle's neck might be broken. Let's drag him to the back where we can assess."

"We're at a 2-on-5 disadvantage. Instead of winning this match, let's fight the Miz back up the ramp to where his comrades are."

"Let's win a TLC Match by bringing in a garbage truck."

"Instead of retreating I'm going to run into my oblivion."

"After we destroy The Shield, we get to rule Raw in perfect harmony on a wrestling show, where I imagine the following content will be us holding hands and singing for all eternity."

There's a lot about this match and it's build on this show that did not make a lick of sense. It wouldn't have been out of the question for the match to end with Kane pinning Braun or vice versa.

[Malfeitor]

I wasn’t a fan of the main event. It was chaotic, just not in a good way.

Plus, anything trying to follow Styles/Balor just didn’t stand a chance.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Sounds like they tried to get way too cute.

[Fignuts]

A lot of people online saying Asuka gave emma too much, and that she just should have squashed her in 2 minutes.

That is so stupid to me. Asuka had never been about squashing people, and having her do so is a waste of her talent. She has the unique ability to look exceptionally strong while keeping the match competetive and making her opponent look good. Only the best in the world are capable of doing this.

Asuka's debut could not have gone better. Asuka looked like a beast, but Emma looked great too. It strengthened the division as a whole, instead of just one competitor.

[Sepholio]

I dunno about that. Asuka def shouldn't have squashed her, but she did give Emma a bit too much. Emma is basically the dregs of the Raw womens division, at least in the way it is presented, and she went toe to toe with Asuka for a good amount of time. Hell I even thought Emma was going to win it a couple times cuz WWE. Asuka didn't look dominant at all in the match; she looked like she was in trouble against the worst in the division. Didn't make her look like she is worthy of all the hype behind her at all.

Good match though.

[Fignuts]

In terms of match control, it was even, yes. But Asuka's style of offense, and the intensity in which she executes it is what made her look very strong to me.

And while Emma hasn't won a ton of matches, she's been competetive enough in them where it's beleivable that her character sees this as her biggest oppurtunity yet and brings it harder than she ever has before. It's not like a Jinder situation or anything.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Now people want squash matches on PPV. Jesus.

The Asuka match was tight, and Emma is amazing.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Love Emma and Asuka, but a competitive match is not the way to debut Asuka to the average fan who has never seen her before. When your story is "this dominant woman is showing up," the match needs to tell the story of dominance. Getting beaten up but Emma doesn't really do that. If you don't want a squash on PPV, don't put the match on the PPV.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

One COULD argue it's a delicate balance. I thought it was a very good match, but I think Asuka spent a bit too much time underneath.

She probably wanted to have a bit of a war and was happy to give Emma that much, but a big debut maybe should have called for a little more dominance.

Still a fun match though... will be interesting to see how she's treated on the main roster.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Didn't even need to be a squash... I just think Asuka should have had that little bit of ascendancy throughout the match, even if Emma was competitive. To me they had her wrassle like a white meat babyface needing to overcome odds. They could just write it off as "Big Stage jitters" plus probably wanted to humble her a bit now that she's stepping up.

[#1-norm-fan]

Nothing wrong with a squash match on PPV if it fits the situation. Not every match has to be about making everyone look even with each other.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Nothing wrong with a squash match on PPV if it fits the situation. Not every match has to be about making everyone look even with each other.

If everyone is even with each other, then how are they supposed to stand out? So many people at the bottom of the card would be so much more over if they actually did less shit.

[Destor]

Shoulda brought her in with a top class opponent. Let her tear it up with sascha right out of the gate. Emma isnt over. Emma is never going to be over. Which would be fine if she were a good hand but she isnt. Shes a pretty face that can eat pins.

Emma should have worked the pre show.

With that said the match was as good as you could have hoped. Crowd clearly knew asuka so its good we dont have to waste time debuting her, theres no need.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Didn't even need to be a squash... I just think Asuka should have had that little bit of ascendancy throughout the match, even if Emma was competitive. To me they had her wrassle like a white meat babyface needing to overcome odds. They could just write it off as "Big Stage jitters" plus probably wanted to humble her a bit now that she's stepping up.

Asuka could have taken some hits and acted like she was having a great time. "Let me see what you've got, Emma." So she lets Emma hit her a few times and does that psycho "Now you're gonna die" thing. I mean, if they really felt like they needed to pad it for time or whatever. I don't know why, they can basically make PPVs as long or as short as they want now.

They make every babyface wrestle like they're white meat. They do this with Nakamura too. It drives me nuts, because they sign these talents because they are larger than life in the ring. Will they be able to cross over? Everything goes extraordinarily well with their packaging and presentation (this is one thing that I will not dispute Triple H is fantastic at), and then they come up and their first match has a loser put them in a fucking chinlock.

It's weird, because they're so hands-on with everything, but they are less meticulous about the stories matches tell than ever before (unless it's something like the bear hunt that was that fucking main event). They're like "Asuka beats Emma," but no one pays any attention to how she does it or what that content makes people feel about her. The achievement of every match is just who wins and loses, which they openly tell you doesn't matter, because every match has to be the same for some fucking reason.

That's why Braun seemingly got as over as he did. It's not because he's that good, it's because he's fucking different and got to actually kill guys.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Shoulda brought her in with a top class opponent. Let her tear it up with sascha right out of the gate. Emma isnt over. Emma is never going to be over. Which would be fine if she were a good hand but she isnt. Shes a pretty face that can eat pins.

Emma should have worked the pre show.

With that said the match was as good as you could have hoped. Crowd clearly knew asuka so its good we dont have to waste time debuting her, theres no need.

The only problem with that (which isn't avoided in what they actually did) is that they probably feel they don't have the depth to blow the Asuka/Sasha match. They want to "save" it, and because there are only six women on RAW or whatever, they have to stall for time.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The women either need their own show or they need a lot more to have a hierarchy.

[Destor]

Even more of a reason to do it. Give em 25 min. Have them go out. Highlight the stregnth of the devision with the asuka addition. 6 months later building the rematch writes itself. Good enough matches will get themselves over.

[Destor]

The women either need their own show or they need a lot more to have a hierarchy.

They need more depth,since they dont have that they need one womens division. Eauality is nice on paper but itsdamaging the product.

[DAMN iNATOR]

@DAMNiNATOR: How concerned are you about Asuka being misused/lost in the shuffle on the main roster?

Because the last time we discussed this you were quite judgmental about me thinking the main roster might ruin her. And now one match in, you seem to be skeptical. I'm wondering what changed.

She got called up to the main roster from NXT? Not sure why I'd need any more reason for concern than that, given Vince's not great track record with that. Yes, I know he doesn't have complete creative control like he used to, but I do worry that she may get lost in the shuffle if Triple H can't at least get Vince to book or help book her in a way that will continue to make her look like an undefeated Badass. That's all.

And I'm sorry I was so judgmental of you before. Not cool on my part, and I hope you can forgive me and we can move on.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They need more depth,since they dont have that they need one womens division. Eauality is nice on paper but itsdamaging the product.

That's why I think they need their own show. Gets the division together. There are only so many times you can see the same permutations of Asuka vs. (x) before it gets boring.

[Destor]

It would have fewer viewers than 205 live...

[Lock Jaw]

Watched the show

Really enjoyed both women's matches, as well as Balor/Styles.

Main Event was good in an "entertainment" sense, and fun to watch. I know people are ragging on that other poster (too lazy to scroll up to remind myself who) about Angle coming back out in his singlet...... but honestly..... I was hoping for the exact same thing.

[Simple Fan]

Watched the show

Really enjoyed both women's matches, as well as Balor/Styles.

Main Event was good in an "entertainment" sense, and fun to watch. I know people are ragging on that other poster (too lazy to scroll up to remind myself who) about Angle coming back out in his singlet...... but honestly..... I was hoping for the exact same thing.

Would be me. Thought it was a given when he got taken out.

[Simple Fan]

That's why I think they need their own show. Gets the division together. There are only so many times you can see the same permutations of Asuka vs. (x) before it gets boring.

If they have their own show Asuka would have more matches vs (x) and be even more boring.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Emma has been putting together a believable air of credibility for more than a few weeks now. But that's just coming from someone who is paying a lot of attention to weekly occurences.

[Anybody Thrilla]

She was touting her unrecognized relevance well before Asuka was even mentioned on main air.

[Anybody Thrilla]

But tune in whenever and naysay whatever you'd like. Shit is still good to me.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Asuka got over on competitive matches. Let her rip.

[Destor]

Emma has been putting together a believable air of credibility for more than a few weeks now. But that's just coming from someone who is paying a lot of attention to weekly occurences.

She was touting her unrecognized relevance well before Asuka was even mentioned on main air.

But tune in whenever and naysay whatever you'd like. Shit is still good to me.Oh well if she said it then it must be so

[Lock Jaw]

Emma is good. Finally getting a bit of spotlight on the main roster too. Yeah, as the jobber bad guy, but that is better than nothing.

[Destor]

Its a useful role.

[Lock Jaw]

Yeah, for sure...... and better Emma than Dana Brooke, because Emma can actually go and look like a legit threat.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It would have fewer viewers than 205 live...

Maybe. Maybe not. It depends who was booking it. I think a good women's show would do better than 205 Live. On equal grounding, I agree with you. But even if it didn't do well because women don't draw or whatever, then I think it's more of a reason to get them off your bread-and-butter shows. Although you can't just scrap the women altogether because then they'll look sexist from a PR perspective (although that might actually get the girls over). This covers you from that and clears up Raw and Smackers.

You can still keep Lana, JoJo, Renee, Maria, Maryse, etc. There will be "hot women" for the dwindling teenage audience to perve on. You can even do the occasional exhibition match to promote the brand on Raw or whatever.

Anyway, as I type this there are probably plans to bring in Ronda Rousey for WrestleMania, so the women will probably draw better than anyone except Brock for Mania, making this all a bit silly.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Emma is good. Finally getting a bit of spotlight on the main roster too. Yeah, as the jobber bad guy, but that is better than nothing.

I really like Emma. I think I subjectively like her more than she is objectively good. On the mic she's kind of annoying, but I like her in the ring and she looks amazing. It's not a knock on Emma when I say that Asuka should have killed her.

Emma could look like a threat, but I don't think she does look like a threat. I think Emma would have benefit from a less dominant match, because then she has something to react to. A babyface could mock her losing so quickly and then you can move into a program between them. Emma vs. Bayley or whatever. Emma could try and bring out Bayley's "dark side," because she knows what it is like to get to the main roster and finding out that all your fans have abandoned you.

[XL]

Instinctively my head says “seperating the women off would be awful”, then I realised watching TLC that I skipped Alicia Fox vs. Sasha Banks, and Alexa Bliss vs. Mickey James, so clearly they don’t have my interest right now anyway.

Although I also skipped both Cruiser matches, and Elias vs. Jason Jordan, and didn’t enjoy the main event so maybe I’m just not engaged in most of the product.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't think that's your fault, XL.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I just realized that is Christian is your avatar. Beautiful.

[XL]

I really like Emma. I think I subjectively like her more than she is objectively good. On the mic she's kind of annoying, but I like her in the ring and she looks amazing. It's not a knock on Emma when I say that Asuka should have killed her.

Emma could look like a threat, but I don't think she does look like a threat. I think Emma would have benefit from a less dominant match, because then she has something to react to. A babyface could mock her losing so quickly and then you can move into a program between them. Emma vs. Bayley or whatever. Emma could try and bring out Bayley's "dark side," because she knows what it is like to get to the main roster and finding out that all your fans have abandoned you.

I know it’s almost “too obvious” to align Emma with Peyton Royce and Billie Kay but I think I’d do it. Switch Emma to SmackDown and bring the Iconic Duo up from NXT to second her.

[XL]

I don't think that's your fault, XL.

No, I know that.

It’s definitely habitual at this point, and part of what keeps me watching is coming here.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Likewise. Wrestling fandom is such a big part of my formative years, I don't want to just toss everything into the fire. I still love thinking about it and analyzing it, but god is it just so fucking bad right now, haha.

I legitimately prefer listening to podcasts about wrestling than watching actual wrestling. I will spend hours a week listening to stuff when I'm travelling, going for a walk or just unwinding at home. I spend the time on wrestling-based content; just not wrestling. Not watching wrestling is actively taking up my wrestling time.

I've tried other avenues. I bought an EVOLVE show. I can't remember which one it was. 47 or something. A whole bunch of guys were injured so SoCal Val came out with her faction -- one of the dudes was Caleb Konley -- and they did a whole bunch of unadvertised stuff. The main event was Chris Hero vs. Zack Sabre, Jr. I think. I say I think, because I didn't get that far into it. All...the fucking...matches...were the same. All of them. There was this dude who looked like he came from the trailer park. Worked indy style and did flips and kicked out of everything. The the next guys came in and did the same thing. Rich Swann took a Canadian Destroyer on the apron or something. I just zoned out. It was so fucking boring. There was no ebb and flow to the show. There were no valleys and therefore there were no peaks.

I paid money for that. It was only like $10 or whatever, but I had financial interest and they still couldn't keep me. I wasn't outraged or anything like that, I just walked off because they couldn't hold my attention.

People have suggested New Japan, but I am worried it is going to be more of the same. I don't know why, I just haven't made the financial commitment yet. But anyway, that's where my fandom is at.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I know it’s almost “too obvious” to align Emma with Peyton Royce and Billie Kay but I think I’d do it. Switch Emma to SmackDown and bring the Iconic Duo up from NXT to second her.

It is obvious, but I understand the impulse. Emma on SmackDown would be interesting. It'd be a "fresh coat" for her anyway. I think there are legs for Peyton and Billie on the main roster and that they are two of the women that Vince and Kevin will "get," if you catch my drift.

My personal idea for Emma was to have her cosplay as Shawn Michaels with Tamina as her Diesel. For whatever reason, dudes seem to love cosplay. They also love Shawn Michaels. I mean, you don't need to say "She is HBK." But give her the hats and the glasses and the broken heart motifs. Dudes will get boners and Tamina can keep a job. I actually like her when she's not center-stage.

If the women had their own show, I'd give Emma a nice long run with some sort of Women's Intercontinental Championship. Why more belts? It gives the illusion of rank and depth. It's another toy they can market. Instead of giving everyone a turn with the Women's Title, you can keep that a little sacred. Whatever, it's just an idea.

In real WWE, I think she'd make a great career rival for Paige. I liked their stuff in NXT, and I think they kind of "fit" as a pairing. The Four Horsewomen are linked in my brain, and Paige and Emma kind of are too. You could have the Four Horsewomen running one show and Paige and Emma dominating the other. But then you've also got to plug in Alexa Bliss somewhere. And Nia Jax when they decide they want to make The Rock happy. And Nikki Bella when she decides she wants to get some screen time.

[XL]

Maybe that’s what’s kept/keeping me going; I spend very little on Wrestling.

I split the cost of the network with a friend and if WWE decided to stop you from accessing at multiple addresses I don’t think I’d resubscribe. I watch Raw/SmackDown online, I don’t buy merch, I don’t go to shows (my wife took me to a house show a couple of years ago and the 3 guys relentlessly chanting “SUPER DRAGON” was enough for me to not want to go again), I didn’t even buy the video game last year (and haven’t this year yet, and I don’t think I’ve spent my own money on it for a few years now).

[Mr. Nerfect]

Maybe that's it. I've always spend very little on wrestling actually, haha. I would order the occasional PPV and buy the occasional video game, but I also don't buy merch and I don't go to live events even when they come here. I think spending money on other wrestling was sort of a desperation maneuver.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Oh well if she said it then it must be so

I'm only saying it made sense for her match with Asuka to be a competitive one.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't think it did to crowds by the sound of it. I just listened to Meltz and Alvarez talk about how her Raw debut killed crowd interest in her, and she left less over than when she walked in.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I know she "got over" in NXT having competitive matches, but keep in mind that Tyler Breeze was also a main eventer down there. Hell, Emma mattered down there. The NXT crowd care about getting themselves and the show over, so they will cheer anyone who fits the paradigm of being funny, cool, ironic or, yes, sometimes even good. The genuinely good reactions seem to trump the others though. You can "feel" the difference between the buzz of Gargano/Ciampa vs. Revival and Dick Dickerson dicking around. There's nothing literally like that in NXT, but you know what I mean.

I don't think you can gauge how well an act will do on the main roster by how well it works in NXT. They just don't translate. One is more professional wrestling and the other is more sports entertainment. Asuka came in to NXT with instant nerd cred, was put over as a big thing and pretty had Emma and Dana Brooke running, from memory. She eventually became embedded with the long title run (I maintain that Triple H was scared of moving her up), people chasing her, and the crowd eating up everything down there. It was a very NXT act is my point. It had the benefit of a certain type of audience.

Most people who watch Raw have never really encountered her. They try to sell her as dominant. I think, that's the vibe I've gotten from all the hype around her debut. Tick, tock, she's coming to get you, basically. But she came and got punched right in the fucking face. It'd be like Arnie tripping over as the Terminator. It's Shockmaster stumbling through the wall, only less ridiculous. But it's the same principle of "this is super serious" and then it happens and it's not.

You've said you're going to tell a story of dominance with her. She needs to dominate. It's really that simple. Anything else is a break in that story and doesn't make sense, so why would anyone keep up with it? They might be able to get her over as the woman who has the most competently wrestled matches in time. But any idea that there's going to be some sort of revolution in credibility for women's wrestling with the debut of Asuka, who could do that, is sadly mistaken when she comes out and has the same match as everyone else. And because they do this with everyone except Brock no one should be surprised.

[Destor]

I'm only saying it made sense for her match with Asuka to be a competitive one.

They wrote a match that made sense, crowd took a nap.

[Mr. Nerfect]

How could Joe from Alabama differentiate Asuka from Sasha Banks at this point? Other than Asuka is Japanese?

[Anybody Thrilla]

I don't think it did to crowds by the sound of it. I just listened to Meltz and Alvarez talk about how her Raw debut killed crowd interest in her, and she left less over than when she walked in.

Did you watch it? Crowd seemed into it.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I don't think it did to crowds by the sound of it. I just listened to Meltz and Alvarez talk about how her Raw debut killed crowd interest in her, and she left less over than when she walked in.

Oh well if she said it then it must be so

[Anybody Thrilla]

Ohhh, you said Raw. Haven't seen that yet. Watching it now. I was just talking about TLC, since this is the TLC thread.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The problem a lot of NXT talent have getting over is that you need to be emotionally invested in them to get emotionally invested in what they're doing. It's a lot like when employers say "must have 5 years experience." Well, how am I meant to get that experience if no one will hire anyone inexperienced. Fandom for a lot of these talents on the main roster comes with "must have already been a fan." Okay then.

When you look at the talent that worked on the main roster, they basically started from scratch. The Shield wasn't an NXT gimmick. Neither was Braun Strowman. The Wyatt Family was, granted, and Bray has probably gone further than anyone else from an NXT transition. Maybe Charlotte, but she was top babyface in NXT and thrived as a heel on the main roster. Sasha was heel in NXT and now works babyface on Raw, if you want to call her a success.

The pre-packaged star doesn't work the way they think it does. And I don't know why they would expect it to considering more people watch Raw than have the Network.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Ohhh, you said Raw. Haven't seen that yet. Watching it now. I was just talking about TLC, since this is the TLC thread.

Ah, sorry, I was just conflating all my Asuka/Emma opinions into one space.

[Destor]

Did you watch it? Crowd seemed into it.

No they didnt. They went to sleep for the heat. They were into Asuka tho

[Destor]

I getnit. Your dick gets hard for emma. But youre blinded by your bias.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I so thought that Emmalina was going to be the thing for her. Once Vince and Kevin Dunn worked out that she a boner machine, it'd be push, push, push. Man, was I wrong.

[Destor]

Yeah baring mass injury there is nothing for her tondo but collecg a pay check

[Anybody Thrilla]

No they didnt. They went to sleep for the heat. They were into Asuka tho

Are you talking Raw or TLC? I'm watching Raw on the DVR RIGHT NOW and Asuka is walking to the ring. I'll let you know how it feels in a bit.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Yeah baring mass injury there is nothing for her tondo but collecg a pay check

Agreed. It sucks, too, because she shouldn't be relegated to "occasional Jobber to the Stars" status.

Then again, there's people on both brands getting that or nothing at all, at least on TV.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Who would you push Emma harder than though?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Yeah, the Raw match was a dead zone.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Also, I think Emma is better than Bayley.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Also, I think Emma is better than Bayley.

I'd agree with that. I think she's better at pretty much everything actually. But Bayley has got capital in the hugging fan favorite thing even though they royally fucked that. But if they put them together and even let Emma win, I'd be down with it.

[Destor]

Are you talking Raw or TLC? I'm watching Raw on the DVR RIGHT NOW and Asuka is walking to the ring. I'll let you know how it feels in a bit.

TLC

[Anybody Thrilla]

Bruh, you wildin

[Destor]

Asuka was over. Emma was over like a fart in church

[Mr. Nerfect]

Emma is only ironically over. Like how Curtis Axel got cheered on Raw because he's a lovable goof. She's the "odd duck out" so people occasionally make some noise for her. I don't think there's any genuine investment from anyone that isn't on the internet that thinks she's mistreated and is likely jacking off to her pictures.

[Destor]

Prime j/o material tho

[Anybody Thrilla]

Asuka was over. Emma was over like a fart in church

I could get behind a fart in church.

[Anybody Thrilla]

But yeah, that's fine. I wasn't even trying to say that Emma was over. I was saying that it made sense for her to have offense in the match from a kayfabe sense and that the crowd was into it.

[Destor]

Ill give you that, absolutely. Im just saying no one bought it.

[Anybody Thrilla]

And yes, I would lick Emma's butthole at any given time.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I find that real world logic and wrestling logic sometimes don't match up. I'm all for kayfabe and all that, but sometimes it's better to just appeal to an emotional fabrication, and avoid the reality of parity. Just let Asuka kill some cunts, basically.