Seanny asks Gertner Wrestling Questions Thread

[Bad News Gertner]

This was a request made to your King and was granted.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Is anyone else permitted to ask questions?

[Bad News Gertner]

Sure

[Mr. Nerfect]

Which belt do you consider to be the most aesthetically pleasing of all-time? And do you think the appearance of belts matters?

[Bad News Gertner]

I've always loved the old AWA World Title.

https://www.rfvideo.com/images/products/thumb/awatitle.jpg

People like to complain about the look of the belts nowadays but it really doesn't sell any more or less tickets.

[Jordan]

Looking back, has Zack Rider had a good career? What's next for these new tag champs?

[Big Vic]

Who's your fav vanilla midget?

[Bad News Gertner]

Looking back, has Zack Rider had a good career? What's next for these new tag champs?

Hawkins just killed his gimmick. They'll become the B Team in a month.

Ryder has definitely had a good career. He's over-achived in my eyes.

[Seanny One Ball]

I'm going to fill this thing up with every question that pops into my head while I watch WWE Network.

1. How long do you think Jim Hellwig would have lasted as Vader?

2. Is it just me or does Jim Ross outright ignore Jesse Ventura and Mike Schiavone whenever they go too far with the exposition? I like to imagine he's pinching their legs.

[Bad News Gertner]

Who's your fav vanilla midget?

That's tough cause I genuinely don't like guys like Benoit, Malenko etc...

Probably Malenko if I had to pick.

[Bad News Gertner]

I'm going to fill this thing up with every question that pops into my head while I watch WWE Network.

1. How long do you think Jim Hellwig would have lasted as Vader?

2. Is it just me or does Jim Ross outright ignore Jesse Ventura and Mike Schiavone whenever they go too far with the exposition? I like to imagine he's pinching their legs.


Not long. Hellwig wouldn't have lasted long in WCW and he would have gotten eaten alive in Japan

JR didn't play well off those two. Tony and Jesse were great together. Ross is almost better on his own.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Outside of Ryback and Matt Morgan, who is the biggest missed opportunity in WWE this century?

[Big Vic]

Percy Watson

[Bad News Gertner]

Percy Watson

Lol I thought for sure he was going to be a Main Event guy

[Bad News Gertner]

Outside of Ryback and Matt Morgan, who is the biggest missed opportunity in WWE this century?

In terms of guys who actually made the roster, probably Nathan Jones, but that was more Jones than the WWE. Bray Wyatt is the correct answer though. They really ruined him.

You know who I thought the WWE squandered an awesome gimmick was : Mike Knox. That evil biologist gimmick he had was amazing and they did nothing with it

[Mr. Nerfect]

It looked like it back when he had a personality. Why did he even stop wrestling?

[Bad News Gertner]

Jones or Knox?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I actually meant Percy, lol. Jones didn’t pick it up and Knox just got released. Heyman was apparently a big supporter of Knox. I mean, I don’t trust Prichard, but I don’t know what he gets out of lying about that. I saw flashes with him — I liked the way he kind of worked sneaky for a big man — but I wasn’t enamored or anything.

Really surprised Chris Masters never got a second look by the company, especially when you can work off Wellness suspensions. The guy’s only 36. I thought they would hire him back after he saved his mother from a burning house after lifting out that tree. Didn’t they give a job back o Daivari when he foiled a robbery? And Chuck Palumbo got another shot when his brother did something heroic overseas.

Actually, throw Shad Gaspard into the basket of heroic guys who didn’t get another shot. Well, Cryme Tyme got too. Reading up on Shad’s Wikipedia, it sounds like he has life by the balls, but his attitude to the company’s attitude apparently just didn’t mix. He and JTG both had good charisma, and I thought the company would have had a boner for the guy.

[Bad News Gertner]

It looks like after he got released from NXT that Percy completely stopped. Didn't work the indies or anything. I heard he got released because he sulked when he didn't graduate to Smackdown with Titus and Darren after the original NXT ended. He probably just gave up.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They had him stop doing the gimmick too.

[Seanny One Ball]

Worst spot callers in wrestling?

Watching War Games a while back and Sid was visibly calling things on camera the entire time he was in there.

Cactus Jack was also bad for it and I'm sure Rick Steiner was a culprit too.

[Seanny One Ball]

Underrated or forgotten wrestling classics?

I saw a Rick Rude/Ricky Steamboat iron-man match that was pretty decent recently. If Ricky had any mic ability or verbal charisma at all he would have had a good WWE career.

[Seanny One Ball]

Most over jobbers-mid carders?

I keep seeing supposedly shitty gimmicks but that were clearly over as hell(El Gigante, Norman The Lunatic). I think if you ignore PC culture a lot of these old gimmicks are hilarious.

[Mr. Nerfect]

When it comes to worst spot-callers, John Cena and Charlotte Flair are the worst modern offenders.

[Seanny One Ball]

I don't know much about the new ones. Anything post 2003 is over my head. I will catch up when I hear it's worth it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Modern wrestling is shit, but spot-calling is going to be far more prominent there because of technology and wrestlers being...not as tight.

[Bad News Gertner]

Worst spot callers in wrestling?

Watching War Games a while back and Sid was visibly calling things on camera the entire time he was in there.

Cactus Jack was also bad for it and I'm sure Rick Steiner was a culprit too.

John Cena hands down. Sid was also notorious

[Bad News Gertner]

Underrated or forgotten wrestling classics?

I saw a Rick Rude/Ricky Steamboat iron-man match that was pretty decent recently. If Ricky had any mic ability or verbal charisma at all he would have had a good WWE career.

There's tons of great matches on House Shows that few people have seen. Any of the Savage vs Tito Santana House Show matches in 86 are great. Hogan's MSG title defences in 85 are very under-rated including his 3 match series with Muraco and Savage

[Bad News Gertner]

Most over jobbers-mid carders?

I keep seeing supposedly shitty gimmicks but that were clearly over as hell(El Gigante, Norman The Lunatic). I think if you ignore PC culture a lot of these old gimmicks are hilarious.

Iron Mike Sharpe and SD Jones always got a really good reaction in the 80's.

You know who were insanely over for a period:The Oddities. Going back and watching 98 Raws, when they were with ICP they were crazy over.

Jimmy Valiant in the late 80's JCP is probably the best example of a mid card guy being insanely over during his feud with Paul Jones Army.

[Bad News Gertner]

Underrated or forgotten wrestling classics?

I saw a Rick Rude/Ricky Steamboat iron-man match that was pretty decent recently. If Ricky had any mic ability or verbal charisma at all he would have had a good WWE career.

Bulldog vs Owen on the March 3 1997 Raw to crown the first European Championship never gets talked about and it's amazing.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Going to go and watch that match now. :y:

[#1-norm-fan]

Mike Knox. That evil biologist gimmick he had was amazing and they did nothing with it

How the fuck did I miss this gimmick??

[Bad News Gertner]

It was so good and they did nothing with it

[Mr. Nerfect]

Reading about that gimmick I was also like "I don't remember that." But straining I think I can remember him giving this weird promos about anatomy in a dark room. Or am I completely making that up?

[DAMN iNATOR]

Outside of Ryback and Matt Morgan, who is the biggest missed opportunity in WWE this century?

Nathan Jones.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Underrated or forgotten wrestling classics?

I saw a Rick Rude/Ricky Steamboat iron-man match that was pretty decent recently. If Ricky had any mic ability or verbal charisma at all he would have had a good WWE career.

Ricky had a fucking amazing WWF career from 85-87. Headlined a lot. He decided to be mr. family man at the wrong time and pissed Vince off.

[Seanny One Ball]

He had a much better NWA, WCW career though.
I don't rate the Savage match that highly either.

[Bad News Gertner]

The Steamboat vs Muraco matches in late 85 are tremendous.

[Seanny One Ball]

Who's the best referee? Watching WCW and at one point Ole Anderson seems to be a relief referee. Slow, quiet counts...

I like Ole, he was a horse and his biography is one of the most entertaining and hateful. Not much of a ref though.
Pretty sure I saw Ronnie Garvin refereeing in early 90's WWE too.

I like the referees that emote like Italians on amphetamine. I like Charles Robinson from the invasion era. He really went for it.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

He had a much better NWA, WCW career though.
I don't rate the Savage match that highly either.

The Savage match is tremendous. Just not the greatest of all time.

[Danny Electric]

If Nash and Hall stayed in WWF do you think the Monday Night Wars would have happened and how do you think things would have been different.

[Bad News Gertner]

The WWF actually was experiencing an upturn in business at the time of Nash's departure with the 4 way feud between Taker, Diesel, HBK and Bret. Nash definitely had that "Austin Anti-Hero" feel. The Monday Night Wars were already happening in late 95, but I think this changes things greatly. I don't think WCW gets hot like they did.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Nash was doing his best work as anti hero Diesel

[Bad News Gertner]

Who's the best referee? Watching WCW and at one point Ole Anderson seems to be a relief referee. Slow, quiet counts...

I like Ole, he was a horse and his biography is one of the most entertaining and hateful. Not much of a ref though.
Pretty sure I saw Ronnie Garvin refereeing in early 90's WWE too.

I like the referees that emote like Italians on amphetamine. I like Charles Robinson from the invasion era. He really went for it.

Garvin and Valentine came up with that Garvin as a ref angle. Pretty under-rated feud between the two.

Dick Woherle is my favourite old time referee from the 80's. Dude was jacked lol. A big showboat.

[Seanny One Ball]

Google image search his name and look how many pictures of the real guy there are in comparison to how many are of the action figure they made of him. Unreal.

[Big Vic]

If you wanted to save WCW at which point would you have stepped in?

[Bad News Gertner]

Starrcade 1997. They had their most profitable year in 98, but the wheels were in motion by late 97.

[screech]

Dick Woherle is my favourite old time referee from the 80's. Dude was jacked lol. A big showboat.

I met him at the wrestling HOF. He had the strongest handshake I've ever felt and he was 81 at the time lol

Told some awesome stories, too.

[Seanny One Ball]

Is your hand made of canvas?

[#1-norm-fan]

The Savage match is tremendous. Just not the greatest of all time.

Which leads me to this question that I pose to Gertner and anyone else who wants to chime in: Which match is more overrated? Steamboat-Savage or the WM X HBK - Razor ladder match?

I love both matches but don’t think either belongs in the GOAT discussion.

[#1-norm-fan]

And I know the iron man match between Bret and Shawn is gonna come up when discussing overrated WM matches but that’s not what I’m asking about. So leave it alone, Goddammit.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

HBK-Razor ladder match is way overrated. Particularly considering (IMO) that Bret versus Owen was the much better match of the two.

[#1-norm-fan]

Thank you. I have not had nearly enough vindication on my belief that that match gets too much credit. And that’s coming from the world’s biggest HBK mark.

[#1-norm-fan]

Bret vs Owen was better but I do wonder sometimes if that match gets a bit overrated in hindsight too simply because Owen won clean which was such an odd finish for that era of WWF. How far down does it fall if Bret just gets the win and it blends in with every other clean finish of the time?

[Seanny One Ball]

The first time I saw Razor/HBK I remember thinking "Wait... that's it...? That's what all the fuss was about?"

The Savage/Steamboat match didn't exactly make me want to grab my nuts and scream "Yeah!" either.

So probably Savage/Steamboat because it just seems odd that a pretty standard match gets such love. I suppose it was arguably the first undeniably good Wrestlemania match though. Not some gimmick or celeb affair, just two great athletes going at it. That was 50% of most cards I saw growing up though. Going back to late 1998-2002 there was a wealth of high tempo match ups. Heat got really stupidly good by virtue of the lighter guys having no other showcase.

[Seanny One Ball]

When I watched WCW at that time I remember thinking the only disappointing matches were main events. Early WCW main events were way more entertaining than WWE though. Looking back now it couldn't be more obvious that the match quality was so much higher.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Bret vs Owen was better but I do wonder sometimes if that match gets a bit overrated in hindsight too simply because Owen won clean which was such an odd finish for that era of WWF. How far down does it fall if Bret just gets the win and it blends in with every other clean finish of the time?

Well, the finish itself was perfectly executed and was completely 100% the right move - which served to make an already great match all that much better. You can't really fault a match for being booked well. If Bret won, I'm sure people would say it was a great match but the finish itself takes it up a notch to a classic.

So, you're right but not in a way that downgrades the match.

[#1-norm-fan]

Right. I’m just saying that finishes are held to a higher standard in hindsight than actual match quality. It’s not wrong. There’s a FUCKTON of matches that people rate super high that I’m sure is strictly because of a finish that I just was not invested in. (WrestleMania 20 and 30, mainly... and every match from the “women’s revolution because we say it all is” era.)

Do we overrate the significance of finishes though? Flair and Steamboat have both said their best match against each other was at a house show. The finish didn’t mean dick. If we saw it, it would probably just be a little novelty addition to our list of best matches. Are THEY wrong in their labeling of “best match” or are we?

I ask this here because it’s the wrestling-nerdiest question I’ve ever posed and this thread is dedicated to Gertner who is the nerdiest wrestling nerd I’ve ever known. So if not now, then when?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

and as Gertner's handsomer and more virile lacky, I felt compelled to answer.

[Bad News Gertner]

Which leads me to this question that I pose to Gertner and anyone else who wants to chime in: Which match is more overrated? Steamboat-Savage or the WM X HBK - Razor ladder match?

I love both matches but don’t think either belongs in the GOAT discussion.

I always try and review matches putting myself in that time frame.

Steamboat vs Savage was so much better than anything the company was doing at that point. You look at that match compared to other nationally televised WWF matches from that era and that match is in another galaxy . I actually prefer their Maple Leaf Gardens match from Feb. 87. It's tremendous.


I can't say the same for HBK vs Razor.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

i also think Savage vs Steamboat holds up as a great match, but I prefer the older style of working. Only thing that ruins it for me is George Steele.

[#1-norm-fan]

I can’t say anything bad about George Steele. Fucking loved that man for everything he was to 80s WWE.

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol when you start watching all the House Shows from the era George's shtick gets a bit old after a while. They ran that feud with Savage into the ground. I think they fought on 3 Saturday Nights Main Events in a row.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I can’t say anything bad about George Steele. Fucking loved that man for everything he was to 80s WWE.

i like his chickenwing finisher but fuck he bores me.

[#1-norm-fan]

He’s pure 80s camp and I love it.

[#1-norm-fan]

Lol when you start watching all the House Shows from the era George's shtick gets a bit old after a while. They ran that feud with Savage into the ground. I think they fought on 3 Saturday Nights Main Events in a row.

Compared to nowadays where they’d wrestle in various tag/singles matches on Raw every single week though...

[Bad News Gertner]

That feud was more over than anything in the WWE today

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

such a waste of Savage :'(

[DaveWadding]

Bret / Owen is so insanely good. Just timeless. I watched it a couple weeks ago and was glued.


HBK/Razor is fun, exciting, and was so innovative at the time. The problem is that the Ladder concept has been pushed so far to the limit since then, it's not as impressive anymore.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

to me, Bret and Owen is better than most ladder matches other than maybe Jericho vs Michaels.

Razor vs Shawn was still immensely good just as a wrestling match, but it's way overrated.

[Seanny One Ball]

Gertner, what is the best surprise pin?

I'm talking small package, backslide, schoolboy, sunset flip or that sort of thing.

[Seanny One Ball]

I read that the guy who invented the Irish Whip used it as a finish. Can you tell me anything more about that and also do you think wrestling could survive without it?

[Bad News Gertner]

Gertner, what is the best surprise pin?

I'm talking small package, backslide, schoolboy, sunset flip or that sort of thing.

Always been a fan of the small package

[Bad News Gertner]

I read that the guy who invented the Irish Whip used it as a finish. Can you tell me anything more about that and also do you think wrestling could survive without it?

Yup, Danno O'Mahoney invented the move in the late 30's. I'm guessing since there's no footage that he was doing the move by whipping his opponent into the turnbuckle.
There were wrestlers back in the day like Johnny Valentine that refused to do the move because it exposed the business.

[Seanny One Ball]

I imagined into the turnbuckle too. I had no idea guys thought it was too obviously b.s though, that's great. I suppose almost every match would have been a mat wrestling affair until the Whip turned up.

[Seanny One Ball]

Always been a fan of the small package


I prefer schoolboys

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Victory roll FTW, though I guess that's a SUPER surprise maneuvre

[Seanny One Ball]

Best Doomsday Device counter on the market

[Bad News Gertner]

I loved the old finisher where a guy would go for a body slam/power slam and the guy would hook his opponents head and turn it into a small package. It's the go to roll up in mid 80s WWF.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I love the suplex from the apron reversal pin.

[Big Vic]

I prefer schoolboys

This sounds good out of context.

[#1-norm-fan]

Always been a fan of the small package

I prefer schoolboys

Even in context...

[Seanny One Ball]

I knew what I was doing when I set it up, Gertner wasn't going to miss that opportunity.

Nothing but net.

[Seanny One Ball]

I should have said "I prefer a lovely schoolboy, stick my hand between his legs and get him on his back."

A reminder to be thorough with the innuendo like Lawler.

[Bad News Gertner]

I love the suplex from the apron reversal pin.

The Don Muraco Special

[Seanny One Ball]

Do you think Ric Flair, Terry Funk and numerous other aged wrestlers actually became addicted to the buzz of announcing their retirement or are they really just crazy old men who can't sit still for five minutes to actually retire and enjoy it?

[Seanny One Ball]

Which titles are your favourites? If you ran a federation which would you use?

I think the European title was my favourite non-World title. I liked the WCW TV Title too, just seemed like a silly name because they were all on TV.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Euro title would have worked if they didn't bury Davey and put the title on Shawn who subsequently turned it into a prop. The angle worked during the moment, and the Euro title was always a token for Smith. But the Bulldog fan in me loves an alternate universe where he stayed in the WWF, remained relevant/uninjured, and brought prominence to the European title.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

BTW I have no idea why I'm responding to your posts, seeing as I'm not Gertner. Plus, he knows far more than me about wrestling.

I assume it's because I have very little to live for.

[Seanny One Ball]

It felt like D Lo held it for ages but looking at the title history he had four very short stints over the course of a year or so.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It felt like D Lo held it for ages but looking at the title history he had four very short stints over the course of a year or so.

He did his best. Honestly, what a great run he had in 1998 and 99 up until Russo left. Literally was supposed to be an extra in the nation. Then developed his character, lost a shit ton of weight, and had some great matches. Fuck he was funny with Mark Henry.

[Seanny One Ball]

I loved everything about D Lo Brown. He had the best theme tune of all time and by a long way too. I still play it.

[Bad News Gertner]

Do you think Ric Flair, Terry Funk and numerous other aged wrestlers actually became addicted to the buzz of announcing their retirement or are they really just crazy old men who can't sit still for five minutes to actually retire and enjoy it?

I think wrestlers get so consumed in the lifestyle that it's all they know. Andre the Giant worked consistently from late 87 until 1990 working a full House Show schedule. Dude was wrestling Big John Studd in high school gyms in 1989. The reason was because he loved being around the boys so much. Poor financial decisions play a part as well.

[Bad News Gertner]

Which titles are your favourites? If you ran a federation which would you use?

I think the European title was my favourite non-World title. I liked the WCW TV Title too, just seemed like a silly name because they were all on TV.

I would go with the World Title, a secondary title like an IC or US, a T.V title that was defended only on television, tag titles and womens singles title.

I loved the WCW T.V title due to the random names who held it. Lol friggen Rick Martel in 98. Just tremendous.

[Bad News Gertner]

I loved everything about D Lo Brown. He had the best theme tune of all time and by a long way too. I still play it.

Haha I used to bump that theme in my 1988 Beretta all the time

[Bad News Gertner]

BTW I have no idea why I'm responding to your posts, seeing as I'm not Gertner. Plus, he knows far more than me about wrestling.

I assume it's because I have very little to live for.

Lol stop. If you posted 10 WWE theme songs, or wrestler photos from the past 5 years I would probably get 5 right.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Lol stop. If you posted 10 WWE theme songs, or wrestler photos from the past 5 years I would probably get 5 right.

I wouldn't know that much either. We have similar wheelhouses... I'd say mine is a few years after yours.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Lol when you start watching all the House Shows from the era George's shtick gets a bit old after a while. They ran that feud with Savage into the ground. I think they fought on 3 Saturday Nights Main Events in a row.

Wow. I'd have thought a fellow MSU fan would have nothing but love for an alumni like Steele. Had a great personality and a way more entertaining Animal than Batista. Really miss George.

[Bad News Gertner]

I like George Steele in small doses.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

You can tell the contrast in both Vinces in the way Steele was portrayed.

With Sr., he was kind of just a standard sleazy heel with a unique look who kind of acted like an animal. Cut heel promos like any other worker.

With Jr., he was a full-on cartoon character who couldn't even speak. Obviously the more memorable of the two portrayals and I would assume he drew much better as a muppet. But fuck, he was grating.

[Seanny One Ball]

The green tongue and turnbuckle chewing were just stupid. That is Memphis bullshit.

Gertner is there anyone in wrestling that you hate beyond redemption and if so, why?

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol awwww I love 80s Memphis wrestling. Best weekly television show from the era.

Hmmmmmm, wrestlers that I hate. Watching mid 80s WWF House Shows has cause me to hate Rene Goulet because of his stupid claw hold that he'd do over and over again during matches that would last for minutes at a time.

I was also not a fan at all of Pedro Morales. His matches were just bleh. Hated when he would come on. Plus I'm not Puerto Rican so I never really "got" Morales.

But the wrestler I hate more than anyone is....


Shane Douglas.

I hate his promos, I hated his stupid belly to belly suplex, I hated everything about him. He's just fucking awful.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

What were your thoughts on Shane's cousin Dean?

[Seanny One Ball]

Shane Douglas comes across as a cunt in every interview I've seen. I never cared for him either.

[Bad News Gertner]

What were your thoughts on Shane's cousin Dean?

They can both eat my ass

[Seanny One Ball]

Dude you were not kidding about the Oddities being over. I don't remember that sort of pop. Golga Vs Jeff Jarrett on Heat and the crowd just loses their shit when the intro hits.
I remember ICP and the Oddities but I thought their intro was different. Possibly they dubbed it over.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

was there any reaction during the match or just for the intro?

[Seanny One Ball]

They were pretty into it, it was on Heat in 98 or 99 and the crowd was pretty pissed when Jarrett won via Debra throwing Cartman to Golga who cuddled it until Double J hit the reverse Russian legsweep for the win.

I think they mostly dug the intro though because ICP and the whole gang came out dancing around like lunatics.

[Bad News Gertner]

They were definitely an over act.

lSCXBt2Eec8

[Bad News Gertner]

Most over jobbers-mid carders?

I keep seeing supposedly shitty gimmicks but that were clearly over as hell(El Gigante, Norman The Lunatic). I think if you ignore PC culture a lot of these old gimmicks are hilarious.

You know who else were crazy fucking over : Too Cool and Rikishi. I don't think people remember how bloody over they were in 99/2000. They were just as over as any face in the company.

[Seanny One Ball]

I remember how over they were, I was a big fan of their act. I remember being upset when Grandmaster Sexay disappeared and never came back.

[Seanny One Ball]

K Kwik and Essa Rios used to get big reactions every week on Heat. I really loved K Kwik, I vaguely remember e-mailing Jim Ross at WWE to ask why they let him go but alas he must have been weak from the palsy as no reply ever came.

[Seanny One Ball]

Hey Gertner, isn't it fucking lame that Wiki removed every wrestler's finisher section from their pages? I wonder why they did that.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Yeah, it's pretty well documented how over too cool/rikishi were. Unfortunately, there was always a shelflife on said overness.

[Bad News Gertner]

Hey Gertner, isn't it fucking lame that Wiki removed every wrestler's finisher section from their pages? I wonder why they did that.

I was just talking about that with someone. Soooooo fucking lame.

[Bad News Gertner]

Yeah, it's pretty well documented how over too cool/rikishi were. Unfortunately, there was always a shelflife on said overness.

Rikishi turned heel and Scotty tore his ACL. That was it.

[Seanny One Ball]

I still get real and painful pangs of depression and anger when I think about Bob Backlund Vs Bret Hart and how much that storyline asked of Bret who had already been fucked around by WWE so many times before. Losing to Yoko then watching Hogan beat him was bad news, but putting old Bob Backlund's pasty white tits over only to watch Diesel beast him is my worst wrestling memory.

I think I am a Bob Backlund "mark" in that I actually hate him for that. I really mean it.

[Seanny One Ball]

Just writing that made me rub my forehead and sigh.

Fucking Backlund.

[Seanny One Ball]

It's proof that a heel can be too good and an angle too raw. Bret Hart played the "put upon" hero so brilliantly I still hate Owen a bit.

[Bad News Gertner]

I love that Mr. Backlund character so damn much lol. The whole finish to the Bret vs Backlund match was so great. Owen was such a little shit lol

[Seanny One Ball]

I'm sure Bob Backlund would be quite proud that a grown man occasionally gets really upset about something he did 25 years ago.

I can't be the only one who he got to.

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol I've talked to Backlund on facebook a few times. Very cool guy.

[Bad News Gertner]

Random thing I just heard. WCW in 2000 was heavily rumored to be bringing in Don Frye, Mark Coleman, Mark Kerr and align them with Rick Steiner and Tank Abbott and call the group "The Knockout Club"

[LibSuperstar]

I enjoyed the Mr. Backlund run. Having been just a bit under 1 yr old when his first WWF Title reign ended the Mr. Backlund run was my introduction to him.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Which is the best PPV name?

[Bad News Gertner]

I always liked Starrcade.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If you were starting up a wrestling promotion, what color scheme do you brand yourself with? What color ring ropes do you use?

[Bad News Gertner]

I liked WCW's black cable ropes better than anything the WWE has done

I'd actually do Black and White.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’m in agreement there. :y:

[Mr. Nerfect]

I know you’re not much for the current product, but if you had to book a main event for Mania next year, what would it be?

[Bad News Gertner]

Hmmmmmm. I dont watch at all, but I do keep up on the results.

Braun Strowman vs Daniel Bryan. I'm booking Strowman as a heel vs Bryan as a face. I wish they did heavy heat angles because there's a lot they could do here. I don't think they've wrestled each other before, so it would be a fresh match up and such an easy storyline to book.

[Bad News Gertner]

Watching the November 26, 1984 Madison Square Garden show. 1984 is so good. Newstead and I have talked about doing a 1984 WWF podcast together where we watch and review every piece of 1984 WWF footage in order. I found someone with some equipment, so this might be a go. Such an interesting time in the company.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Throw Seanny into the mix and we could produce something great.

[Seanny One Ball]

I've been wanting to do that for so long

[Seanny One Ball]

Also reading out Droford posts in a sad voice

[screech]

Rikishi turned heel and Scotty tore his ACL. That was it.

I remember that Rikishi turn being really bad. I figured it could've worked because "big guy gets mad" seemed easy enough to portray.

I haven't watched that in a while. Did he cut more really bad promos after admitting he did it for The Rock?

[Mr. Nerfect]

A big problem with those sorts of turns is that you lose everything about the performer that drew people in. Rikishi was just a fat guy after that.

[XL]

Who’s your pick for shit wrestler with a great gimmick and great wrestler with a shit gimmick?

[Bad News Gertner]

1. The Boogeyman. Lol I loved that gimmick so much, but man was he bad.

2. The Red Rooster. Terry Taylor was so good in Mid South as a heel and he gets saddled with this. He never recovered.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh man, I fucking hated The Boogeyman.

[Seanny One Ball]

Name wrestlers who do moves better than guys who are known for their delivery of that move.

[Bad News Gertner]

Bradshaw does a better Lariat than Stan Hansen.

[Seanny One Ball]

Random thing I just heard. WCW in 2000 was heavily rumored to be bringing in Don Frye, Mark Coleman, Mark Kerr and align them with Rick Steiner and Tank Abbott and call the group "The Knockout Club"

Mark Kerr was going through some serious drug abuse and rapid physical decline around that time which lasted years and ruined him. Try and find a documentary called The Smashing Machine, it's the most honest account of MMA drug abuse that there is.

[Seanny One Ball]

Bradshaw does a better Lariat than Stan Hansen.

He does a better Powerbomb than pretty much anyone I can think of too. I'd say Taker but I dunno, I seem to remember him nearly killing a few guys with it when they slipped while he was trying to hitch them up right at the end for the final elevation.

[Seanny One Ball]

Bob Holly had a sweet dropkick but I think that's an acknowledged fact among his peers.
I always thought Shawn Michaels had a poor super kick too. I preferred Stevie Richards' Stevie Kick. It does what it says on the tin.
I remember running around the playground at school throwing "Seanny kicks" in his honour.

[Bad News Gertner]

Mark Kerr was going through some serious drug abuse and rapid physical decline around that time which lasted years and ruined him. Try and find a documentary called The Smashing Machine, it's the most honest account of MMA drug abuse that there is.

Saw that 2 years ago. So good!

[Bad News Gertner]

Bob Holly had a sweet dropkick but I think that's an acknowledged fact among his peers.
I always thought Shawn Michaels had a poor super kick too. I preferred Stevie Richards' Stevie Kick. It does what it says on the tin.
I remember running around the playground at school throwing "Seanny kicks" in his honour.

I was gonna say Chris Adams did a better Superkick than HBK

[Seanny One Ball]

Because of his name I always thought he must have actually been a gentleman. Then I found out he was a complete maniac. I like the crazy ones.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Yokozuna also did a great superkick.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

http://i.imgur.com/DfIs4UE.gif

[Seanny One Ball]

Look at that. He didn't even end Brett's career or anything.

Someone should have shown Bill Goldberg.

[Seanny One Ball]

In a seriousness how can anyone justify that kick not being a match ender. What's the point in little HBK doing it if Yokozuna does a better one at that size.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I have the same complaint about the superplex. How is a superplex less powerful than every finisher?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I hate it when guys hit a superplex and no sell it.

[Bad News Gertner]

It was Bob Orton jr's finisher

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Bradshaw does a better Lariat than Stan Hansen.

lies.

[#1-norm-fan]

Gertner exaggerates for effect a lot.

JBL does throw a mean lariat though.

[Bad News Gertner]

It's better than Hansen's

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

your mom

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I also like Bradshaw’s better...

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

YOU'RE ALL DEAD TO ME

[Seanny One Ball]

I would say Bradshaw hit the best clothesline too because every second clip I see of Hansen throwing the Lariat looks sloppy as shit and liable to take the poor bastard's torso off. He threw that thing at the back of guy's heads too.
It's weird because he honestly looks like he could run a nice little diner at the side of the road nowadays.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Bradshaw can't lace Stan Hansen's boots

[Bad News Gertner]

Nobody threw a better Lariat than in shape Acolyte Bradshaw.

[Seanny One Ball]

Who do you think was the most dangerously sloppy or stiff worker?
Hansen broke Sammartino's neck, Vader's nose, popped Vader's eye out in the same match and I've never heard him referred to as much worse than stiff and blind.

[Seanny One Ball]

I watched Shamrock/Vader from 97 last night and that was a stiff match but pretty safe until Vader suplexed Shamrock from the ring to the floor outside... he drops him ten feet onto his knees. Looked terrible.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lol my favourite moment in that match (well I think it's everyone's favourite moment) is when Vader finally has had enough of Ken, and FUCKING SMASHES him with that clothesline in the corner. Fuck it was funny.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

also the classic "EASE UP"

[Mr. Nerfect]

Surprised Ken Shamrock has never done anything more with WWE. Like, he’s old now, but they have seemingly just forgotten him. Maybe it’s because they think he’s too rattled in the head?

[Evil Vito]

Every time I think "bad wrestler, great gimmick" my mind automatically defaults to Deuce 'n Domino. I loved that team way more than I had any right to just because of the over the top gimmickry.

And to be fair, Domino wasn't bad especially based on his indy run later. Deuce though might've been one of the worst guys they ever had under contract. I dunno if he had something wrong with him physically or if he was just lazy but he flat out refused to bump and would constantly grab the ropes on the way down. And considering they spent months working a fiery babyface team in London and Kendrick, not being able to bump and feed throws off the pacing of everything.

[Bad News Gertner]

Who do you think was the most dangerously sloppy or stiff worker?
Hansen broke Sammartino's neck, Vader's nose, popped Vader's eye out in the same match and I've never heard him referred to as much worse than stiff and blind.

Lol a 300 pound blind Texan. A receipe for disaster.

[Bad News Gertner]

Every time I think "bad wrestler, great gimmick" my mind automatically defaults to Deuce 'n Domino. I loved that team way more than I had any right to just because of the over the top gimmickry.

And to be fair, Domino wasn't bad especially based on his indy run later. Deuce though might've been one of the worst guys they ever had under contract. I dunno if he had something wrong with him physically or if he was just lazy but he flat out refused to bump and would constantly grab the ropes on the way down. And considering they spent months working a fiery babyface team in London and Kendrick, not being able to bump and feed throws off the pacing of everything.


They talk about It 5 minutes into the video

Vyds-CXGxkg

[Evil Vito]

Hahaha I knew I remembered hearing them complain about him somewhere. Wanna re-watch that whole shoot now cause I remember it being hilarious.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Brian Kendrick tells a story about literally pissing on John Cena.

[#1-norm-fan]

I think that’s the shoot where Paul London literally says he’ll be happy when Vince is dead. Lol

[Mr. Nerfect]

I still freakin' love London. The guy was pretty ahead of his time. If he came around now, it's easy to imagine him getting the same sort of treatment as a Johnny Gargano. Well, whatever that is worth. An independent leader at the time. Buuuut, the more time that passes, the more I wonder if the dude was just literally insane. He seems to make a lot of sense some of the time, but other times, he really seems "out of it."

A bit sad to hear him say that he and Kendrick hadn't spoken in over a year at one point. That was around the time of the CWC.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Actually, was just about to make a thread about ROH. I would not be opposed, providing he is still in shape, for London having a "comeback run" in ROH. They need something.

[#1-norm-fan]

Paul London has wrestled for a company in LA a friend of mine worked for. I haven’t actually talked to him but from what my friend has told me based on hours of conversation, Paul London is the Noid of the indy wrestling world. Just constantly talking about how shitty modern wrestling is. You’d love him.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Paul London has wrestled for a company in LA a friend of mine worked for. I haven’t actually talked to him but from what my friend has told me based on hours of conversation, Paul London is the Noid of the indy wrestling world. Just constantly talking about how shitty modern wrestling is. You’d love him.

:love:

He goes hard on Triple H, which I love. I'm not really in on the whole "Triple H is the future mind of wrestling" thing. I think he's playing hipster brew-maker right now for his own ego. He knows what happens on the main roster, and he's not putting any of them over him up there. They're his kids down there, but there's a difference between touch footy in the backyard and the big NFL game, where he is going to book himself like the Patriots.

[Seanny One Ball]

Why don't you go blow Sal Sincere in somebody else's awesome thread you dweebs

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Seanny read your rep

[Seanny One Ball]

Cool, thanks!

[#1-norm-fan]

I’m down for blowing Deuce ‘n’ Domino if you’d find that less offensive.

They’re probably in my top 5 favorite 2000s tag teams for the gimmick alone. Also, top 5 best themes of all time.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Fucking hated Deuce N' Domino for ending London & Kendrick's reign.

[Bad News Gertner]

Remember when Deuce moved to Raw and became Sim Snuka and tried to get into Legacy? I think he beat Rey Mysterio on Raw.

[XL]

Sim Snuka and Manu lol

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Member when Deuce almost broke the Undertaker’s neck at Wrestlemania?

[Bad News Gertner]

Sim Snuka and Manu lol

My grandmas cat was named Minew, so Manu reminded me of my grandmas old dead cat.

[Evil Vito]

Fucking hated Deuce N' Domino for ending London & Kendrick's reign.

Funny enough Domino retweeted that yesterday was the 12 year anniversary of them winning the titles. So for shits and grins I looked the match up.

It wasn’t even a tag match lol. London took himself out with a missed moonsault on the outside which led to Kendrick getting the shit beaten out of him for 10 minutes before getting pinned.

What a lame way to start a title reign. And that basically was it for Londrick as they got sent to Raw to rot not long after.

[Evil Vito]

Sim Snuka and Manu lol

Lol they got the shit kicked out of them by Orton, Cody, and Ted Jr and then they were both released within a few months.

Even WWE recognized that they were shit.

[Evil Vito]

Still think it’s bullshit that they never did anything with Domino. He was far and away the better of the two and as it was discovered a few years later on Colt’s podcast, he was fucking hilarious.

Could’ve gone more Andrew Dice Clay with the gimmick and been an Elias-type heel if nothing else.

[Bad News Gertner]

Their finisher was lame

[Mr. Nerfect]

Lol, “Crack ‘Em in the Mouth.” I can’t remember too many people having shorter, less memorable runs than Manu. Eric Escobar?

[Bad News Gertner]

Remember when they brought up Ryan Braddock and Scotty Goldman to Smackdown and did zero with them.

[Evil Vito]

Don’t forget Kizarny!

[Evil Vito]

Lol Colt Cabana has been told he was going to keep the Colt Cabana name and be the Santino of SmackDown.

Then a week later on the day of his debut he gets told he’s gonna be Scotty Goldman. God that must’ve sucked.

[Bad News Gertner]

Frankie Kazarian, Gunner Scott, KC James and Aaron the Idol Stevens.

Smackdown is littered with guys who had really short runs.

[Evil Vito]

A VERY young and unrecognizable Tommaso Ciampa as Muhammad Hassan's lawyer.

[#1-norm-fan]

Remember Braden Walker?

[screech]

Remember Braden Walker?

Whose brains was he gonna knock out? Armando Estrada?

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol Colt Cabana has been told he was going to keep the Colt Cabana name and be the Santino of SmackDown.

Then a week later on the day of his debut he gets told he’s gonna be Scotty Goldman. God that must’ve sucked.

Lol what a strange run he had

[Seanny One Ball]

What's the funniest thing you have seen in wrestling?

[Bad News Gertner]

Dale will back me up on this :Kal Rudman and Dick Graham doing commentary on old Philadelphia Spectrum house shows. The WWF used to show Philly house shows on the PRISM Network. Similar to the MSG shows airing on the MSG Network. Anyways, Dick Graham was a Prism employee so they had to use him. Kal was a music industry mogul who somehow got put on commentary between 1980 to the fall of 1982.

They are a riot.

[Seanny One Ball]

I tried watching Prism earlier. It was unusually bad quality and I got fidgety very quickly.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I tried watching Prism earlier. It was unusually bad quality and I got fidgety very quickly.

hmm which show? they're usually decent considering a lot of them are original VHS rips. There's one i can remember that is bad during the 1st match but sorts itself out.

[Bad News Gertner]

Yeah pretty much all my copies are great quality and I pretty much have every show from that time period.

[Bad News Gertner]

Also, this promo kills me everytime

kH8cK7EOSgw

[Bad News Gertner]

Oh and the Vince/Kurt/Austin skits

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Oh and the Vince/Kurt/Austin skits

oh man, literally 3 of the funniest people in wrestling ever together being fucking hilarious. Baby crack corn.

[Seanny One Ball]

hmm which show? they're usually decent considering a lot of them are original VHS rips. There's one i can remember that is bad during the 1st match but sorts itself out.


I think Bob Backlund was in it. It was at 240p. I will give PRISM another shot tonight, I may be confused with the plethora of old wrestling shows available on the tube.

[Seanny One Ball]

Backlund ruins everything

[Seanny One Ball]

Oh and the Vince/Kurt/Austin skits

oh man, literally 3 of the funniest people in wrestling ever together being fucking hilarious. Baby crack corn.

This is my most treasured wrestling memory. Even my sister watched it with me and laughed her head off.

Imagine if Austin and Kurt were both pre-neckbreak at the time. They'd have become the greatest heel team of all time.

Might watch some Hollywood Blondes matches tonight.

[Evil Vito]

Oh and the Vince/Kurt/Austin skits

Even just Kurt and Vince alone was gold. I remember Angle pleading with Vince to use his 2nd draft pick on him. Vince relented and Angle hugged him all happy. Only to shake his finger at him and go "but I should've been picked first!"

[Seanny One Ball]

The adverts have not been cut out of some of these old shows. Hostess Pudding Pies and Lady Remington... Also a WWE plug for Predator featuring Jesse Ventura.

Good nostalgia.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

yeah that's amazing

[Seanny One Ball]

Dick Graham and Kal Rudman are dressed like Artie Ziff, they look like Artie Ziff and they seem to come from the Mcmahon style of "Oh No!" "Uh Oh!" and "Look Out!" school of commentary.

Bob fucking Backlund is in every God Damn show jumping around in his gay red jacket like a shit head.
I sure hope Hogan takes this guy down soon.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

84-85 is virtually backlund-less. though 83 heavily features don muraco. I like the 85-86 shows with Randy Savage being the best fucking heel ever. Get to see some early Hogan vs Savage matches which rules.

[Bad News Gertner]

Their 3 MSG show set in late 85 is amazing

[Evil Vito]

In retrospect, WM2 really is a masterclass in how to take a "Not very good but hey it's got a sort of quaint charm" show, as was the original WM, and mercilessly wring all the joy out of it.

[Bad News Gertner]

I really like WM1 and like WM2 but not as much. They way overcomplicated it.

[Seanny One Ball]

In retrospect, WM2 really is a masterclass in how to take a "Not very good but hey it's got a sort of quaint charm" show, as was the original WM, and mercilessly wring all the joy out of it.


Hahahahaha

So true

[Seanny One Ball]

What do you think of Bill Apter?

[Damian Rey 2.0]

In retrospect, WM2 really is a masterclass in how to take a "Not very good but hey it's got a sort of quaint charm" show, as was the original WM, and mercilessly wring all the joy out of it.

Wait, tell me more

[Bad News Gertner]

What do you think of Bill Apter?

His contributions to the wrestling business are so understated . He's extremely grating though.

[Seanny One Ball]

Yeah... Like I know my gran lived through some wild shit and did some cool stuff but she's still a crazy old bat when you sit her down and listen to her talk.

[Bad News Gertner]

He 100% believes Benoit didn't do it

[Seanny One Ball]

I just heard him say that in some shoot interview. He also questioned something else legit as if it was a work but I can't remember what because it made me so angry I said out loud "TO WHAT END, BILL?" and turned it off.

[Bad News Gertner]

He also has this thing where he asks to put wrestlers he interviews in a figure 4 leg lock.

My girlfriend bought me his book for part of my birthday present. Kinda meh.

[Bad News Gertner]

Started my week vacation today. Got some wrestling shows on the itinerary.

Gonna watch the 350 Days documentary
Gonna continue my 1997 Raw watch. Just finished the April 14, 1997 Raw. I love doing deep dive projects.
I have a September 20, 1980 Madison Square Garden show that I obtained about a year ago that i forgot about. Backlund vs Race Main Event
Plus some 80s Memphis Wrestling.

[Seanny One Ball]

He also has this thing where he asks to put wrestlers he interviews in a figure 4 leg lock.



TO WHAT END, BILL?

[Big Vic]

Lol, “Crack ‘Em in the Mouth.” I can’t remember too many people having shorter, less memorable runs than Manu. Eric Escobar?

Jackson Andrews?...Chavos body guard? or was it Tyson Kids body guard?

[Evil Vito]

Oh fuck I completely forgot about Jackson Andrews.

[Bad News Gertner]

Remember Key?

[Seanny One Ball]

I really need to know why an old man is putting wrestlers in a figure four

[Supreme Olajuwon]

It must be an old person thing.

Ric Flair’s been an old man putting wrestlers in a figure four for twenty years.

[Seanny One Ball]

Nobody has tapped for at least 25

[Big Vic]

Remember Key?

..............Was he dressed in all white? White hair?

[Bad News Gertner]

Yessir. He was supposed to be Droz and Prince Albert's drug dealer. Key was supposed to be short for "kilo". Made a couple appearances. That's it.

tGoljRhdSuk

[Big Vic]

Reminds me of Reddog, or Mad dog, who would later turn into Rodney Mack.

[Bad News Gertner]

Watched the April 21,1997 episode of Raw. Still enjoying it more than 98 Raw.

Got the Sept. 22 1980 MSG show on with Vince McMahon and Kal Rudman on commentary. This should be amazing.

[Evil Vito]

lollllllllllllllll Key

only lasts a few weeks in WWF and then goes back to ECW where he and New Jack have their infamous botched balcony fall in my hometown of Danbury, CT

[Bad News Gertner]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/081/422/justjoe_display_image.jpg

[Seanny One Ball]

Holy shit :lol:

I remember that guy.

[Bad News Gertner]

Just watched the Dark Side of the Ring Macho Man one. Felt it was very rushed. Watching the Brody one. I wish these were 2 hours instead of 45 minutes.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

lollllllllllllllll Key

only lasts a few weeks in WWF and then goes back to ECW where he and New Jack have their infamous botched balcony fall in my hometown of Danbury, CT

I am of the opinion that that spot was worse than New Jack’s retaliation where he actually tried to murder Grimes.

[Bad News Gertner]

New Jack likes to tell stories. He didn't actually do that. Grimes outshot his landing.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I have such an odd opinion about New Jack. He seems like such a giant piece of shit in the ring but in every interview he is so charming and engaging.

[Bad News Gertner]

He's alot of bravado, but a captivating interview

[Bad News Gertner]

Holy shit was the Brody Dark Side of the Ring good

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, loved that episode. Was it known that Brody was looking to buy Gorilla Monsoon's stake in the WWC?