Greatest Pitcher of all-time [Archive]

The Show Off

06-01-2004, 10:37 PM

It's gotta be Sandy Kofax, for about 5 years people could barley touch the guy, at his prime he was the greatest pitcher that ever lived... However, from everything I read if Babe Ruth had pitched his whole career he would have been one of the greatest pitchers of all time, cause he was lights out.

I also have to give a nod to Roger Clemens as well he was great...

There are so many great pitchers in baseball histor, but if it were game 7 of the World Series and I had to pick a pitcher to win the game for me it'd be Kofax... I'd have Kofax go for about 8 innings and then I'd bring out the sandman Mariano Riveria to shut the door.

The Show Off

06-01-2004, 10:38 PM

No Whitey Ford? :wtf:

samichna

06-01-2004, 10:48 PM

Where is my man Rollie Fingers

Loose Cannon

06-01-2004, 10:54 PM

No Whitey Ford? :wtf:

Ford would of been 22 and I would of included him over Ryan, but people would of bitched. IMO Ryan is not even top 15. I'll explain later cause I think Ryan is going to steal this.

And Rollie Fingers is not even top 50

Evil Vito

06-01-2004, 10:56 PM

<font color=goldenrod>Nolan Ryan, hands down</font>

The Show Off

06-01-2004, 10:59 PM

Ford would of been 22 and I would of included him over Ryan, but people would of bitched. IMO Ryan is not even top 15. I'll explain later cause I think Ryan is going to steal this.

And Rollie Fingers is not even top 50

Fair enough, White Ford wouldn't be known as the best pitcher anyway... Just as a Yankee fan I had to ask... My grandfather talks about Whitey Ford the same way he talks about watching DiMaggio.

Whitey Ford > Nolan Ryan

Loose Cannon

06-01-2004, 11:07 PM

Fair enough, White Ford wouldn't be known as the best pitcher anyway... Just as a Yankee fan I had to ask... My grandfather talks about Whitey Ford the same way he talks about watching DiMaggio.

Whitey Ford > Nolan Ryan

Oh yeah, Ford is probably the greatest Yankee pitcher of all time. He holds the record among retired pitchers for higest all-time career winning percentage with .690. That pertains to "x" amount of innings pitched.

Wondermouse

06-01-2004, 11:09 PM

Ford would of been 22 and I would of included him over Ryan, but people would of bitched. IMO Ryan is not even top 15. I'll explain later cause I think Ryan is going to steal this.

And Rollie Fingers is not even top 50
Yeah, it's all about Walter Johnson, IMO. Grover Cleveland Alexander and Lefty Grove are up there.

For pitchers in their peak, it's either Pedro or Randy.

BTW, I'll save LC the time and explain why Nolan Ryan's way overrated.

Yes, he leads the world in strikeouts. He also leads the world in walks. Strikeouts are very important, but walks are almost as important. He was a great pitcher who had great longevity, but notice how he was never thought of as the best pitcher in any single year? Look at that - no Cy Youngs!

Now, I'll be the first to tell you the BBWAA sucks cock when it comes to recognizing value. A-Rod should be about on his 5th MVP now. But Nolan did not deserve a Cy Young, except maybe in '87.

His ERA's relatively bad, I mean, compared to all time greats.

Greatest post-WWII: Roger. Randy, Pedro, Maddux, Tom Terriffic all up there.

Wondermouse

06-01-2004, 11:12 PM

Oh yeah, Ford is probably the greatest Yankee pitcher of all time. He holds the record among retired pitchers for higest all-time career winning percentage with .690. That pertains to "x" amount of innings pitched.
There really aren't any other candidates, except maybe Mariano and Goose. But Whitey's longevity dwarfs them.

Loose Cannon

06-01-2004, 11:14 PM

Yeah, it's all about Walter Johnson, IMO. Grover Cleveland Alexander and Lefty Grove are up there.

For pitchers in their peak, it's either Pedro or Randy.

BTW, I'll save LC the time and explain why Nolan Ryan's way overrated.

Yes, he leads the world in strikeouts. He also leads the world in walks. Strikeouts are very important, but walks are almost as important. He was a great pitcher who had great longevity, but notice how he was never thought of as the best pitcher in any single year? Look at that - no Cy Youngs!

Now, I'll be the first to tell you the BBWAA sucks cock when it comes to recognizing value. A-Rod should be about on his 5th MVP now. But Nolan did not deserve a Cy Young, except maybe in '87.

His ERA's relatively bad, I mean, compared to all time greats.

Greatest post-WWII: Roger. Randy, Pedro, Maddux, Tom Terriffic all up there.

Cool thanks. Now I don't have to type two paragraphs on this sh**.

Wondermouse

06-01-2004, 11:16 PM

I know my shit when it comes to baseball.

Loose Cannon

06-01-2004, 11:20 PM

There really aren't any other candidates, except maybe Mariano and Goose. But Whitey's longevity dwarfs them.

Well there is Gomez, Hoyt, Pennock, and Chesbro , but Ford ownes them all. Pettitte is up there too.

And I just realized I forgot Satchel Paige up there. Fu**.

Wondermouse

06-01-2004, 11:30 PM

Satch would be hard to get any real opinion on. We know he was good. We don't know HOW good, because we have few statistics on him.

Loose Cannon

06-01-2004, 11:40 PM

^^Yeah, same with Gibson, but there were many major leaguers, HOF'ers none the less, who faced and saw Paige in his prime and they said he was one of the greatest pitchers ever. It's a sad story. I mean, I don't think Gibson would of hit 900 homers or anything in the majors, but I wish he could of got the chance to show what he could do.

Wondermouse

06-01-2004, 11:49 PM

Oh, I know. But I think we have no way to really compare any of these guys, so any serious discussion that focuses on intelligent analysis should not include Gibson or Satch.

PureHatred

06-02-2004, 12:47 AM

Jesus Shuttlesworth

06-02-2004, 12:52 AM

And I just realized I forgot Satchel Paige up there. Fu**.
If the stories are true...Then its him

Jesus Shuttlesworth

06-02-2004, 12:53 AM

Gonna vote Koufax tho

Wondermouse

06-02-2004, 01:13 AM

Marks the Fuck out for Wondermouse!!!

Yeah, anyone who votes for Nolan Ryan has watched too many Advil commercials. Ryan was a barely above .500 pitcher with tremendous stuff who became famous for longevity and his freakish ability to throw no-hitters. If you look at his seasons as a whole, he was never even the best pitcher in his own league in any one year.

It was either Johnson or Cy young. I like Tom Seaver, too.
Oh, don't get me wrong. Ryan was a hell of a pitcher. He's not the best pitcher ever, but he was pretty good for very long. He got lucky a few times, but his freakish ability to throw no hitters pretty much comes from the fact that he struck out over 9 guys an innning. If you strike out, say, 11 guys, then your defense only has 16 chances to screw up.

I like Tom Seaver, but realistically, he wasn't better than Roger Clemens or Greg Maddux.

Sandy Koufax, in my opinion, was amazing; but I think Pedro, Randy, and Roger have all been better. He's most comparable to Pedro. Pedro has the huge advantage in ERA, Sandy in IP. However, these advantages show the usage patterns of their respective era as well as their talent. Pedro could probably amass more IP, but it would hurt his ERA (perhaps due to pitching through injury or just the fact that everything tends to gravitate towards the middle after a long time).

I <3 Negros

06-02-2004, 01:39 AM

I voted Young because there was no Satch. Paige was a massively underrated pitcher who in his old age when most players are retired was one of the great pitchers in Major League Baseball, and was the best pitcher in the Negro leagues. Remember he beat Dizzy Dean(who was a very close second for me) in Dean's prime.

Loose Cannon

06-02-2004, 01:58 AM

Supreme Olajuwon

06-02-2004, 02:13 AM

gotta say Walter Johnson

I don't care what era you're in, a 2.17 career ERA is ridiculous

el fregadero

06-02-2004, 02:16 AM

Nolan Ryan.

I <3 Negros

06-02-2004, 02:17 AM

^^I don't think Satch in underrated cause everyone always talks about him. Underrated would be like Hubbell or McGinnity (sp) Dean was a great pitcher until he got hit on the ankle or something in the all-star game. Certaintly not the best, but he was very good. Winning 30 games in a season in pretty fricken good.
Hubbel and Mcginnity were very good pitchers, but I still think Satch is better. Now I'm sure there was a better pitcher than anyone on the list not listed, but I can't think of him right now.

Wondermouse

06-02-2004, 02:18 AM

Nolan Ryan.
YOU'RE GONNA GIVE ME A HEART ATTACK EL FRIDGE.

el fregadero

06-02-2004, 03:38 AM

I've never even seen an Advil commercial with him.

Wondermouse

06-02-2004, 03:46 AM

I've never even seen an Advil commercial with him.
You've just bought into the hype. That's all.

el fregadero

06-02-2004, 03:47 AM

Basically. My dad is/was a huge Nolan Ryan fan and I grew up hearing about him.

The Outlaw

06-02-2004, 03:49 AM

He could throw the HEATER

Wondermouse

06-02-2004, 03:50 AM

Yeah. Anybody who actually looks into it sees that he was really amazing, but more for his uniqueness than anything. Fact is, I don't think there's any year where he was the best pitcher in the majors.

He pitched a lot, though, with some good years.

el fregadero

06-02-2004, 03:51 AM

He could throw the HEATER
Throw the BIG, STINKY CHEESE.

The Outlaw

06-02-2004, 03:52 AM

Paige supposedly is the greatest according to a lot of the players, if I'm not mistaken.

Wondermouse

06-02-2004, 03:54 AM

Paige supposedly is the greatest according to a lot of the players, if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah, but I don't really trust players' evaluations. They're better than writers, though. It's definitely possible Paige was the greatest, but I don't think we can say with any form of certainty.

The Outlaw

06-02-2004, 03:59 AM

Oh yeah, I agree. I was just trying to chip in on the discussion. :o

I would have to say Walter boy though.

:love:Carlton:love:

Loose Cannon

06-02-2004, 10:57 AM

Hubbel and Mcginnity were very good pitchers, but I still think Satch is better. Now I'm sure there was a better pitcher than anyone on the list not listed, but I can't think of him right now.

No, those are the best of the best. I didn't leave anyone out, trust me. I even have an 1890's guy up there.

loopydate

06-02-2004, 12:11 PM

I voted Ryan for sentimental reasons. When I was growing up, I wanted to be Nolan Ryan (of course, much....much younger), because I wanted to be a pitcher in the majors.

Of course that all fell apart when I realized the only pitch I could throw was a fastball that topped out in the 70s, but still...

Since I grew up worshipping Nolan Ryan, he gets my vote, even though I know he's not the greatest pitcher of all time.

Guest #1

06-02-2004, 12:40 PM

I pretty much agree with Dangerously. From what I read about baseball history, I would consider Satchel Paige to be the best pitcher. It is too bad that due to societal problems, we cannot compare how good he truely was.

MoRcHeEbA

06-02-2004, 02:55 PM

Juan Guzman

John la Rock

06-02-2004, 06:56 PM

Juan Guzman

MARKS THE FUCK OUT!!!!

1992-93 Jays WHAT WHAT

Wondermouse

06-02-2004, 07:58 PM

What happened to Juan Guzman? Did he get hurt and completely go down the shitter?

John la Rock

06-02-2004, 11:52 PM

What happened to Juan Guzman? Did he get hurt and completely go down the shitter?

I think he was like a 1 hit wonder. he had a couple of good seasons with the Jays and then dissapeared. I know he went to the Reds and Devil Rays after Toronto. I think he retired a couple of years ago

The Show Off

06-03-2004, 12:28 AM

Whomever voted Nolan Ryan knows absolutly nothing about baseball. He's the worst pitcher on the list.

Wondermouse

06-03-2004, 12:30 AM

He had 5 pretty good years (91-93, 96, 98), and the rest were shit. He retired after 2000. That's pretty weird.

The Miz

06-03-2004, 01:00 AM

Anyone who picked Ryan is a dunce. Throwing the ball 98 every time doesn't = best pitcher ever.

Wondermouse

06-04-2004, 02:38 AM

Anyone who picked Ryan is a dunce. Throwing the ball 98 every time doesn't = best pitcher ever.
Agreed, but he was an amazing pitcher, even if that didn't always mean he was one of the best.

ct2k

06-06-2004, 12:31 PM

Sandy Koufax

Yashamaga

06-06-2004, 02:54 PM

FERNANDO-MANIA

Vega

06-06-2004, 09:03 PM

Knowing jack about baseball, I'll jump on the bandwagon.

Corkscrewed

06-09-2004, 05:09 PM

Saitchel Paige once loaded the bases with no outs. He then proceeded to order his team mates on the field to sit down. He then proceeded to strike out the side.

Now THAT is lights out.

Guest #1

06-09-2004, 05:17 PM

^^^
When is Satchel going to be added to the poll, instead of being a write in candidate?

Loose Cannon

06-09-2004, 05:37 PM

^^you can't edit polls. And that might be a myth Cork.

Guest #1

06-10-2004, 12:18 PM

Yeah LC, I kind of figured that it might be that way. Anyways, I am really glad that Satchel is getting alot of type on this one. It is a shame that NLB gets ignored and I've even heard that some of the big players have been in question since they did not face major league talent, even when some players went on to have stellar careers when integration did finally happen. Yeah, some of the stories might be a myth, but is it a myth that the Crawfords, Greys, Monarchs, etc were great teams? It is hard to tell. I think it's interesting that the league is kept alive by mythic type stories when it could have been lost in history.

By the by, I enjoy the historical baseball topics and content you often add LC. Thanks