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View Poll Results: Greatest Pitcher of all-time
Cy Young 2 7.14%
Christy Matthewson 0 0%
Walter Johnson 4 14.29%
Grover Cleveland Alexander 0 0%
Kid Nichols 0 0%
Mordecai Brown 0 0%
Ed Walsh 0 0%
Carl Hubbell 0 0%
Lefty Grove 1 3.57%
Bob Feller 0 0%
Dizzy Dean 1 3.57%
Warren Spahn 0 0%
Bob Gibson 0 0%
Tom Seaver 0 0%
Sandy Koufax 5 17.86%
Jim Palmer 0 0%
Steve Carlton 0 0%
Roger Clemens 1 3.57%
Nolan Ryan 12 42.86%
Pedro Martinez. 1 3.57%
Randy Johnson 1 3.57%
Voters: 28. You must log in or register to vote on this poll.

 
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Old 06-01-2004, 09:30 PM   #1
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Greatest Pitcher of all-time
Who do you think was/is the greatest pitcher of all-time? Poll coming.

I know like half of these guys are going to get no votes, but whatever, I din't want to leave some of the earlier pitchers out.
Last edited by Loose Cannon; 06-01-2004 at 09:42 PM.
 
Old 06-01-2004, 10:24 PM   #2
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I'd say Nolan Ryan. Hard to beat the all time strike out king and a man with 7 no hitters
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Old 06-01-2004, 10:37 PM   #3
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It's gotta be Sandy Kofax, for about 5 years people could barley touch the guy, at his prime he was the greatest pitcher that ever lived... However, from everything I read if Babe Ruth had pitched his whole career he would have been one of the greatest pitchers of all time, cause he was lights out.

I also have to give a nod to Roger Clemens as well he was great...

There are so many great pitchers in baseball histor, but if it were game 7 of the World Series and I had to pick a pitcher to win the game for me it'd be Kofax... I'd have Kofax go for about 8 innings and then I'd bring out the sandman Mariano Riveria to shut the door.
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Old 06-01-2004, 10:38 PM   #4
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No Whitey Ford?
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Old 06-01-2004, 10:54 PM   #5
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No Whitey Ford?
Ford would of been 22 and I would of included him over Ryan, but people would of bitched. IMO Ryan is not even top 15. I'll explain later cause I think Ryan is going to steal this.

And Rollie Fingers is not even top 50
 
Old 06-01-2004, 10:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
Ford would of been 22 and I would of included him over Ryan, but people would of bitched. IMO Ryan is not even top 15. I'll explain later cause I think Ryan is going to steal this.

And Rollie Fingers is not even top 50
Fair enough, White Ford wouldn't be known as the best pitcher anyway... Just as a Yankee fan I had to ask... My grandfather talks about Whitey Ford the same way he talks about watching DiMaggio.

Whitey Ford > Nolan Ryan
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Old 06-01-2004, 11:07 PM   #7
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Fair enough, White Ford wouldn't be known as the best pitcher anyway... Just as a Yankee fan I had to ask... My grandfather talks about Whitey Ford the same way he talks about watching DiMaggio.

Whitey Ford > Nolan Ryan

Oh yeah, Ford is probably the greatest Yankee pitcher of all time. He holds the record among retired pitchers for higest all-time career winning percentage with .690. That pertains to "x" amount of innings pitched.
 
Old 06-01-2004, 11:12 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
Oh yeah, Ford is probably the greatest Yankee pitcher of all time. He holds the record among retired pitchers for higest all-time career winning percentage with .690. That pertains to "x" amount of innings pitched.
There really aren't any other candidates, except maybe Mariano and Goose. But Whitey's longevity dwarfs them.
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Old 06-01-2004, 11:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
Ford would of been 22 and I would of included him over Ryan, but people would of bitched. IMO Ryan is not even top 15. I'll explain later cause I think Ryan is going to steal this.

And Rollie Fingers is not even top 50
Yeah, it's all about Walter Johnson, IMO. Grover Cleveland Alexander and Lefty Grove are up there.

For pitchers in their peak, it's either Pedro or Randy.

BTW, I'll save LC the time and explain why Nolan Ryan's way overrated.

Yes, he leads the world in strikeouts. He also leads the world in walks. Strikeouts are very important, but walks are almost as important. He was a great pitcher who had great longevity, but notice how he was never thought of as the best pitcher in any single year? Look at that - no Cy Youngs!

Now, I'll be the first to tell you the BBWAA sucks cock when it comes to recognizing value. A-Rod should be about on his 5th MVP now. But Nolan did not deserve a Cy Young, except maybe in '87.

His ERA's relatively bad, I mean, compared to all time greats.

Greatest post-WWII: Roger. Randy, Pedro, Maddux, Tom Terriffic all up there.
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Old 06-01-2004, 11:14 PM   #10
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Yeah, it's all about Walter Johnson, IMO. Grover Cleveland Alexander and Lefty Grove are up there.

For pitchers in their peak, it's either Pedro or Randy.

BTW, I'll save LC the time and explain why Nolan Ryan's way overrated.

Yes, he leads the world in strikeouts. He also leads the world in walks. Strikeouts are very important, but walks are almost as important. He was a great pitcher who had great longevity, but notice how he was never thought of as the best pitcher in any single year? Look at that - no Cy Youngs!

Now, I'll be the first to tell you the BBWAA sucks cock when it comes to recognizing value. A-Rod should be about on his 5th MVP now. But Nolan did not deserve a Cy Young, except maybe in '87.

His ERA's relatively bad, I mean, compared to all time greats.

Greatest post-WWII: Roger. Randy, Pedro, Maddux, Tom Terriffic all up there.

Cool thanks. Now I don't have to type two paragraphs on this sh**.
 
Old 06-01-2004, 10:48 PM   #11
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Where is my man Rollie Fingers
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Old 06-01-2004, 10:56 PM   #12
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Nolan Ryan, hands down
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Old 06-01-2004, 11:16 PM   #13
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I know my shit when it comes to baseball.
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Old 06-01-2004, 11:30 PM   #14
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Satch would be hard to get any real opinion on. We know he was good. We don't know HOW good, because we have few statistics on him.
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Old 06-01-2004, 11:40 PM   #15
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^^Yeah, same with Gibson, but there were many major leaguers, HOF'ers none the less, who faced and saw Paige in his prime and they said he was one of the greatest pitchers ever. It's a sad story. I mean, I don't think Gibson would of hit 900 homers or anything in the majors, but I wish he could of got the chance to show what he could do.
 
Old 06-01-2004, 11:49 PM   #16
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Oh, I know. But I think we have no way to really compare any of these guys, so any serious discussion that focuses on intelligent analysis should not include Gibson or Satch.
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Old 06-02-2004, 12:47 AM   #17
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Marks the Fuck out for Wondermouse!!!

Yeah, anyone who votes for Nolan Ryan has watched too many Advil commercials. Ryan was a barely above .500 pitcher with tremendous stuff who became famous for longevity and his freakish ability to throw no-hitters. If you look at his seasons as a whole, he was never even the best pitcher in his own league in any one year.

It was either Johnson or Cy young. I like Tom Seaver, too.
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Old 06-02-2004, 01:13 AM   #18
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Marks the Fuck out for Wondermouse!!!

Yeah, anyone who votes for Nolan Ryan has watched too many Advil commercials. Ryan was a barely above .500 pitcher with tremendous stuff who became famous for longevity and his freakish ability to throw no-hitters. If you look at his seasons as a whole, he was never even the best pitcher in his own league in any one year.

It was either Johnson or Cy young. I like Tom Seaver, too.
Oh, don't get me wrong. Ryan was a hell of a pitcher. He's not the best pitcher ever, but he was pretty good for very long. He got lucky a few times, but his freakish ability to throw no hitters pretty much comes from the fact that he struck out over 9 guys an innning. If you strike out, say, 11 guys, then your defense only has 16 chances to screw up.

I like Tom Seaver, but realistically, he wasn't better than Roger Clemens or Greg Maddux.

Sandy Koufax, in my opinion, was amazing; but I think Pedro, Randy, and Roger have all been better. He's most comparable to Pedro. Pedro has the huge advantage in ERA, Sandy in IP. However, these advantages show the usage patterns of their respective era as well as their talent. Pedro could probably amass more IP, but it would hurt his ERA (perhaps due to pitching through injury or just the fact that everything tends to gravitate towards the middle after a long time).
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Old 06-02-2004, 01:39 AM   #19
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I voted Young because there was no Satch. Paige was a massively underrated pitcher who in his old age when most players are retired was one of the great pitchers in Major League Baseball, and was the best pitcher in the Negro leagues. Remember he beat Dizzy Dean(who was a very close second for me) in Dean's prime.
 
Old 06-02-2004, 12:53 AM   #20
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Gonna vote Koufax tho
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Old 06-02-2004, 01:58 AM   #21
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^^I don't think Satch in underrated cause everyone always talks about him. Underrated would be like Hubbell or McGinnity (sp) Dean was a great pitcher until he got hit on the ankle or something in the all-star game. Certaintly not the best, but he was very good. Winning 30 games in a season in pretty fricken good.
 
Old 06-02-2004, 02:17 AM   #22
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^^I don't think Satch in underrated cause everyone always talks about him. Underrated would be like Hubbell or McGinnity (sp) Dean was a great pitcher until he got hit on the ankle or something in the all-star game. Certaintly not the best, but he was very good. Winning 30 games in a season in pretty fricken good.
Hubbel and Mcginnity were very good pitchers, but I still think Satch is better. Now I'm sure there was a better pitcher than anyone on the list not listed, but I can't think of him right now.
 
Old 06-02-2004, 10:57 AM   #23
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Hubbel and Mcginnity were very good pitchers, but I still think Satch is better. Now I'm sure there was a better pitcher than anyone on the list not listed, but I can't think of him right now.
No, those are the best of the best. I didn't leave anyone out, trust me. I even have an 1890's guy up there.
 
Old 06-02-2004, 02:13 AM   #24
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gotta say Walter Johnson

I don't care what era you're in, a 2.17 career ERA is ridiculous
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Old 06-02-2004, 02:16 AM   #25
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Nolan Ryan.
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Old 06-02-2004, 02:18 AM   #26
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Nolan Ryan.
YOU'RE GONNA GIVE ME A HEART ATTACK EL FRIDGE.
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Old 06-02-2004, 03:38 AM   #27
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I've never even seen an Advil commercial with him.
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Old 06-02-2004, 03:46 AM   #28
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I've never even seen an Advil commercial with him.
You've just bought into the hype. That's all.
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Old 06-02-2004, 03:47 AM   #29
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Basically. My dad is/was a huge Nolan Ryan fan and I grew up hearing about him.
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Old 06-02-2004, 03:49 AM   #30
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He could throw the HEATER
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Old 06-02-2004, 03:51 AM   #31
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He could throw the HEATER
Throw the BIG, STINKY CHEESE.
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Old 06-02-2004, 03:50 AM   #32
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Yeah. Anybody who actually looks into it sees that he was really amazing, but more for his uniqueness than anything. Fact is, I don't think there's any year where he was the best pitcher in the majors.

He pitched a lot, though, with some good years.
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Old 06-02-2004, 03:52 AM   #33
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Paige supposedly is the greatest according to a lot of the players, if I'm not mistaken.
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Old 06-02-2004, 03:54 AM   #34
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Paige supposedly is the greatest according to a lot of the players, if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah, but I don't really trust players' evaluations. They're better than writers, though. It's definitely possible Paige was the greatest, but I don't think we can say with any form of certainty.
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Old 06-02-2004, 03:59 AM   #35
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Oh yeah, I agree. I was just trying to chip in on the discussion.

I would have to say Walter boy though.

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Old 06-02-2004, 12:11 PM   #36
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I voted Ryan for sentimental reasons. When I was growing up, I wanted to be Nolan Ryan (of course, much....much younger), because I wanted to be a pitcher in the majors.

Of course that all fell apart when I realized the only pitch I could throw was a fastball that topped out in the 70s, but still...

Since I grew up worshipping Nolan Ryan, he gets my vote, even though I know he's not the greatest pitcher of all time.
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Old 06-02-2004, 12:40 PM   #37
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I pretty much agree with Dangerously. From what I read about baseball history, I would consider Satchel Paige to be the best pitcher. It is too bad that due to societal problems, we cannot compare how good he truely was.
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Old 06-02-2004, 02:55 PM   #38
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Old 06-02-2004, 06:56 PM   #39
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Old 06-02-2004, 07:58 PM   #40
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What happened to Juan Guzman? Did he get hurt and completely go down the shitter?
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