Bret Hart's response to Flairs comments

[Thriller]

As a huge Bret Hart fan i am a frequent visitor to his site.Here are his comments to Flairs book.

"I'm loading up my shotgun to respond to what Ric Flair wrote in his book, not just about me, but about several other respected collegues.
Mr. Magoo doesn't know what he's talking about"


That is straight from www.brethart.com

[loopydate]

LOL He has a section titled "Montreal" on his website. :rofl:

Yeah. Vince needs to let it go.

[Zen v.W.o.]

..

Dumbass it's for the rejects who still dont know the full story. He gets tons of email about that still, he's tired of talking about it.

It's there to educate the masses.

Vince is the guy still using it on his tv shows on a regular basis.

[loopydate]

Dumbass (...) he's tired of talking about it.
LOL

You Hitman marks crack me up.

[Zen v.W.o.]

....

I fucking despise bret.

[loopydate]

^ Then we agree on something.

Actually, I take that back. I'm a big fan of his in-ring work, and I liked him up until 1997, when he turned into a whiny bitch. I feel bad for the tragedies that have fallen on his family, but I have no pity for what happened in Montreal or any problems that befell him in WCW.

[Loose Cannon]

Oh loopy, don't make me go off. If there is one thing that can push my button, it's this. ;)

[KingofOldSchool]

I love you loopy.

[Tornado]

Oh loopy, don't make me go off. If there is one thing that can push my button, it's this. ;)
Bret Hart is a whiney bitch...

*sits back, grabs Popcorn*

This should be fun...

[Funky Fly]

Oh loopy, don't make me go off. If there is one thing that can push my button, it's this. ;)
I was agreeing with you pretty much up until " ;) ". :mad:

[Loose Cannon]

Look, I've said eveything I can basically say about Montreal in that other thead a month back.

[ColdwaVer]

*climbs into a foxhole, puts on a helmet, and waits for Rob to see this*

[Tornado]

Look, I've said eveything I can basically say about Montreal in that other thead a month back.
Don't ruin my fun.....:(

[I-Hate-You]

*climbs into a foxhole, puts on a helmet, and waits for Rob to see this*
Can I get in also?

:wavesad:

[KayfabeMan]

I won't even comment here because I'll explode like Peter North....

[KayfabeMan]

Although,I guess my last post counts as a comment - and so does this one - so yeah, I lied...tough shit :mad:

[Funky Fly]

Before I ask you to comment, Kayfabe, lemme get my umbrella.

[Loose Cannon]

Just remember. Bret had CREATIVE CONTROL in his contract and WAS WILLING to do the JOB to MICHAELS the next nigh on RAW. And he was willing to do the JOB to anyone else at Survivor Series except Michaels. Can't Blame Hart for not wanting to job to Micahels though cause that prick didn't want to JOB to him a couple of times before. :mad:

[Loose Cannon]

couldn't contain myself :wave:

[Zen v.W.o.]

...

Actually I dont hate bret, in fact I'm a huge mark of his and damn proud to be.
And since I witnesed the screwjob live and in person, I can safely say I will always hate vince, even though at the time I didn't know wtf was going on.

[I-Hate-You]

...

Actually I dont hate bret, in fact I'm a huge mark of his and damn proud to be.
And since I witnesed the screwjob live and in person, I can safely say I will always hate vince, even though at the time I didn't know wtf was going on.
Huh?

Just a moment ago, you said...

....

I fucking despise bret.

[Xero]

Just remember. Bret had CREATIVE CONTROL in his contract and WAS WILLING to do the JOB to MICHAELS the next nigh on RAW. And he was willing to do the JOB to anyone else at Survivor Series except Michaels. Can't Blame Hart for not wanting to job to Micahels though cause that prick didn't want to JOB to him a couple of times before. :mad:
If he did have creative control, why didnt Bret sue for breach of contract?



Just throwing some shit on the fire :shifty:

[Zen v.W.o.]

Huh?

Just a moment ago, you said...

..

I was being sarcastic man. Trust me, take a look at some of my posts on this forum and on rajah's..I'm anything but a bret despiser.:)

[loopydate]

Just remember. Bret had CREATIVE CONTROL in his contract and WAS WILLING to do the JOB to MICHAELS the next nigh on RAW. And he was willing to do the JOB to anyone else at Survivor Series except Michaels. Can't Blame Hart for not wanting to job to Micahels though cause that prick didn't want to JOB to him a couple of times before. :mad:
And this is a big reason why I loathe Creative Control clauses in contracts. When the wrestlers can choose who they do and don't want to job to on any given night, then that leaves the writers in a hell of a bind.

This is why so many people hate Triple H, so why do people love Bret Hart for the same reason? You'll all be creaming yourselves if Vince does a screwjob on Trips if he doesn't do a proper job to, say, Chris Jericho.

[Loose Cannon]

You go to understand though. Bret was willing to job to anyone except Michaels. It's not like HHH where he just basically doesn't want to job to anyone. Bret has put a lot of guys over in his career and if it were anyone else, Bret would of put them ovr at Survivor Series. Mankind, Austin were some other names. It's in Foley's book

Why should he have any respect for Michaels during that time. Michaels had none for him and when Michaels was suppossed to drop the Title to him at Mania, HBK pulled out with a so called "injury" Fk'n Brain injury if you ask me. Michales was nothing but a dick who, like HHH, didn't want to do any jobs. That's why he never got beat for the Title back in that time. He only got beat months later when he was seriously injured and was thinking about retiring.

[da_king]

<font color="#ccffcc">
well if there was a creative control clause it was because vince agreed to it. also bret was doing vince a favour by leaving in the middle of his contract. anyways yeah, this has been done to death.

</font>

[Tornado]

lol, why can't people just forget it now?

Someone screwed someone, it was shocking, they bitch at each other for years....end of story.


(this is fun)

[The One]

Flair > Hart

Flair comments on Hart (amongst others) where dead on...Bret Hart is a needs a good swift kick in the balls sometimes.

[Loose Cannon]

Here we go again :naughty:

[Tornado]

Flair = washed up has been
Bret = along with Vince, and the rest of the wrestling world, NEEDS to forgot about Montreal

[Zen v.W.o.]

And this is a big reason why I loathe Creative Control clauses in contracts. When the wrestlers can choose who they do and don't want to job to on any given night, then that leaves the writers in a hell of a bind.

This is why so many people hate Triple H, so why do people love Bret Hart for the same reason? You'll all be creaming yourselves if Vince does a screwjob on Trips if he doesn't do a proper job to, say, Chris Jericho.

..Is it bret's fault vince authorized it? Agreed to it? If vince didn't think Bret was loyal and worked hard enough for it, he never would have gave it. Vince put himself in this spot.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Flair > Hart

Flair comments on Hart (amongst others) where dead on...Bret Hart is a needs a good swift kick in the balls sometimes.


...

Nah, if flair had any valid reason for bashing bret, it definitely would not have been about a situation he was never involved in. He had no reason to include it in his book. He just wanted to suck ass again and sell more copies by using a big tragedy and a bigger name then his.

[The One]

...............so anyone here in the mood for some some S'mores...I mean we already have a fire going...

[loopydate]

You go to understand though. Bret was willing to job to anyone except Michaels. It's not like HHH where he just basically doesn't want to job to anyone. Bret has put a lot of guys over in his career and if it were anyone else, Bret would of put them ovr at Survivor Series. Mankind, Austin were some other names. It's in Foley's book

Why should he have any respect for Michaels during that time. Michaels had none for him and when Michaels was suppossed to drop the Title to him at Mania, HBK pulled out with a so called "injury" Fk'n Brain injury if you ask me. Michales was nothing but a dick who, like HHH, didn't want to do any jobs. That's why he never got beat for the Title back in that time. He only got beat months later when he was seriously injured and was thinking about retiring.
I'm not condoning HBK by any means (though I'll always be a mark for his character), because he has the proverbial blood on his hands, too. He should have jobbed to Bret (and to several others), but just because he didn't doesn't give Bret any right to do the same.

He should have taken the high road, done what was asked of him (WHEN it was asked of him), then made Vince pay by pushing WCW even further over the top. Instead, he tried to pull a power play, got screwed, and has been complaining about it ever since.

[The One]

...

Nah, if flair had any valid reason for bashing bret, it definitely would not have been about a situation he was never involved in. He had no reason to include it in his book. He just wanted to suck ass again and sell more copies by using a big tragedy and a bigger name then his.

I never said that Flair was RIGHT to put the incident in the book...just that he had it dead on correct...I agree he really dosn't need to talk about it (then again neither does any of the Wrestler's in their autobiographies) but since that fact is past I pointed out that his comments on Bret, along with his comments on many other superstars, where dead on.

[Tornado]

1997
1997 people. Almost 7 full years ago. Why the fuck can't it just be dropped.


(I am fully aware I brought up Bret being a whiney bitch earlier in thisthread, that was just for a laugh)

[loopydate]

..Is it bret's fault vince authorized it? Agreed to it? If vince didn't think Bret was loyal and worked hard enough for it, he never would have gave it. Vince put himself in this spot.I'm not saying Vince shouldn't have agreed to it, because he really had no reason to believe that Bret would walk out on him (good call, Vince :roll: ). In a world of Creative Control clauses, that one made sense.

I'm saying that Creative Control clauses are the devil's handiwork and shouldn't exist at all, because they give wrestlers a sense of entitlement that, frankly, they don't deserve. Bret shouldn't have had one, Michaels shouldn't have one, Triple H shouldn't have one, no one should have Creative Control clauses in their contracts.

Because of situations like this.

[The One]

1997
1997 people. Almost 7 full years ago. Why the fuck can't it just be dropped.


(I am fully aware I brought up Bret being a whiney bitch earlier in thisthread, that was just for a laugh)


The reason it can't...or wather won't be dropped...is this (pro wrestling) is what we find important. Just like Millie Vanille (or however you spell it) won the Grammy like 14 years ago and people still talk about it...it is a big deal, especially since there is blame to pass around on all 3 (HBK, Hart, McMahon)...the big question that gets to everyone though is who is to blame the most?

[Zen v.W.o.]

I'm not saying Vince shouldn't have agreed to it, because he really had no reason to believe that Bret would walk out on him (good call, Vince :roll:). In a world of Creative Control clauses, that one made sense.

I'm saying that Creative Control clauses are the devil's handiwork and shouldn't exist at all, because they give wrestlers a sense of entitlement that, frankly, they don't deserve. Bret shouldn't have had one, Michaels shouldn't have one, Triple H shouldn't have one, no one should have Creative Control clauses in their contracts.

Because of situations like this.


...

Okay, I got ya. I can understand your point of view.

[Tornado]

I know we find it it important, I know the whole situation was wrong. There are so many factors to incorporate into it, 100% blame will never be placed.

I just find it hard to understand why an event that happned 7 years ago, still touches so many nerves with the slightest mention.

Back to the topic at hand....yeah, Ric Flair needs shooting.

[Loose Cannon]

Okay, This is what it comes down to in the end:

Bret should have done the job.
Vince is a total ass for doing what he did to Bret
HBK was a lier and an asshole


And BTW: Bret got Creative Control in the first place so Vince didn't have a chance to destroy his character and run it into the ground. This is why wrestlers get that. I remember watching a BRET interview and he said that when he was in his early WWF days, Piper said to him you need to get Creative Control later on so they do't try to bury your chracter.

[loopydate]

Okay, This is what it comes down to in the end:

Bret should have done the job.
Vince is a total ass for doing what he did to Bret
HBK was a lier and an asshole
We have an accord. ;)

This is exactly how I feel about the Montreal situation, although I might add one more thing:

Bret should stop playing "innocent victim"

[Tornado]

:

Bret should have done the job.
Vince is a total ass for doing what he did to Bret
HBK was a lier and an asshole


:y::y:

As much as he, and countless fans disagree, doing the job, would have been the right, and professional thing to do that night.

[The One]

Roddy Piper???: I mean seriously...Roddy never trusted a single person in the business ever. It's not even like he had a bad experience where he got the shaft that changed him...he never worked for the good of the company, only for the good of Roddy. That's why he never got the big pushes when he was mass over....He always had his gaurd up on everyone...NWA, WWF, WCW...all of them, and he blames them for not pushing him to the moon. Well maybe they WOULD have if he would have been a team player.

For Bret to take ANY advice from Roddy (in the ring or out) is a damn shame because as much as I dislike Hitman, he is far suprior to Roddy in every way.

[Batsu]

Bret Hart will forever kick ass in my book.

Montreal was total bullshit, because while Bret
pulled what's now being called "The Pelinka Polka"
to go to WCW, there was no doubt he would have
dropped the belt on TV before leaving. There's
no way he would have vacated the belt and then
go on to WCW. No way, period.

This commentary was kind of funny though.

[Champion of Europa]

I love you loopy.

[Lara Emily]

I'm not saying Vince shouldn't have agreed to it, because he really had no reason to believe that Bret would walk out on him (good call, Vince :roll: ). In a world of Creative Control clauses, that one made sense.

:wtf: Bret walked out on Vince???? Hello, Vince told him they were going to breach his contract because they can't pay him and advised him to talk to WCW. It was Vince who told Bret to leave.

[Excellance of Execution]

I compare the whole Bret Hart Montreal situation like this:

Say you work for a business for 10-15 years. You work your way from the bottom all the way to the top, in the process, doing everything that your asked to do. You don't jump ship for another "company" even though they are offering you alot more money, you agree to stay with who your working for because you are very loyal.

Then one day, the company you've been loyal to for 10-15 years, comes to you and tells you they can't afford to keep you anymore and to take the other job that's been offered to you. After all you've done for the company, wouldn't/shouldn't you expect to be appreciated and giving the choice to look good in front of everyone who respect's you?

We all know Bret would have done the right thing the next night on Raw. His 10-15 years of Loyalty proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt. Why does this light a fire under everybodies ass? Probably because everyone wonder's what things might have been like if Montreal never happened.

[Lara Emily]

Youch! His comments on Flair are scathing, awesome but scathing. Not saying I agree with it all but wow. One thing about Bret he's never afraid to defend himself.

[Lara Emily]

http://www.brethart.com/comments.asp for the full article.

[Zen v.W.o.]

....

Holy shit! Bret totally ripped flair a new asshole. That was even better then the one on OLe!!

Bret tells it like it is.

[Kapoutman]

I think Bret said it perfectly. I bought Flair's DVD to see what the fuss was all about. I had never watched a lot of NWA stuff before. I can honestly say that none of the matches on this set can match what Bret Hart could do.

[Splaya]

Hart was one of the best of his time. HBK was too, but backstage politics, the KLIQ, everything fucked everything up. You guys wonder why we will never see Bret Hart on WWE TV in the near future. Cause everytime they visit Canada, Vince rebrings it up just to dump shit on the fans in Montreal and the wrestling world. It happened 7 years ago, get the fuck off of it. Honestly, if you feel that poorly about something that happened 7 years ago, no matter how much of an asshole it made Vince or HBK look, it doesn't matter because what it all boils down to is one thing: IT WAS BUSINESS.

[Bad Company]

Bret Hart is a whiny bitch.
Get over it.

[Innovator]

"For Flair to demean Randy Savage and Mick Foley is outrageous! In my
opinion, as someone who has worked with all three of them (and everybody else
from that era too) Ric Flair couldn't even lace up Randy and Mick’s boots! "

[Splaya]

Bret Hart is a whiny bitch.
Get over it.


See post above yours.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

"For Flair to demean Randy Savage and Mick Foley is outrageous! In my
opinion, as someone who has worked with all three of them (and everybody else
from that era too) Ric Flair couldn't even lace up Randy and Mick’s boots! "
Ric Flair was a million times the wrestler Mick Foley was, if Bret is questioning that than maybe that kicked did a bit more to his brain than we all thought.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

And just for the record, I'm sick of Hart's seemingly holier than thou attitude.

[Gerard]

Have to agree with everything in that article, flairs classed as a "legend" but in the long run if you watch one flair match you may as well have watched his entire career because theres usually very little variation in his matches. How hard could it be to repeat the same routine night after night? Not as if he would have to work hard at it like other wrestlers, doing the same shit night after night you'd have the routine down after a month.

[KingofOldSchool]

I already know what Bret Hart writes in his little column....

Week 1:

I'm the best there is, best there was, and best there ever will be! And to prove it I'm gonna ride my motorcycle, eh.

Week 2:

Oh no. I've had a stroke, I can't bitch anymore. What's that all aboot?

Week 3:

Oh wait, I can bitch, I just can't walk. That sounds like a fair trade to me, eh.

[Champion of Europa]

Week 4:

Now I have to practice the FIVE VOWEL SOUNDS OF DOOM until I get the feeling in my lips back.

Man, I'm so going to hell.

[KingofOldSchool]

Week 5:

BRET HART CAN'T BREATH! Oh no! Oh...noo...*blacks out*

[Champion of Europa]

Week 6:

NURSE! BRET HART CAN'T MOVE HIS ARM! HELP BRET HART TURN ON THE SWAN!

[KingofOldSchool]

Week 7:

Ric may be a decade older than me, but look who is the one in the wheelchair! Take that Flair! I've done something you haven't been able to do! Oh wait...

[Champion of Europa]

Week 8

*calls Miss Cleo*

Bret: Hello.

Cleo: Hello. You are aware this call is 7.99 a minute, correct?

Bret: Yes ma'am. So tell me..

Cleo: I'm sorry, but your bank account does not have 7.99 in it, goodbye.

*hangs up*

Bret: SCREWED AGAIN! *motions "PSYCHIC FRIENDS CONNECTION" in the air*

[KingofOldSchool]

That was heartless mitch, making fun of his stroke is one thing, but making fun of his finacial situation is another. :nono:

[Champion of Europa]

That was heartless mitch, making fun of his stroke is one thing, but making fun of his finacial situation is another. :nono:

The financial situation insult is nowhere NEAR how I accused him of enjoying The Swan.

That was the one that bought me my ticket to Hell.

[Zen v.W.o.]

...

It seems the flair fans have come out and cant stand the fact flair was exposed as the fraud he always has been.

Ahhh, Bret you've been gone from the company almost 7 years, yet you still draw the most passion and heated debates from the fans after all this time. That's saying something.

People just cant stop thinking of this man.

[KingofOldSchool]

...

It seems the flair fans have come out and cant stand the fact flair was exposed as the fraud he always has been.

Ahhh, Bret you've been gone from the company almost 7 years, yet you still draw the most passion and heated debates from the fans after all this time. That's saying something.

People just cant stop thinking of this man.

At least Flair still has full use of his body.

ZING.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Ahhh, Bret you've been gone from the company almost 7 years, yet you still draw the most passion and heated debates from the fans after all this time. That's saying something.
Yes, it says stop being a whiney bitch and shut up so everyone can move on.

[Champion of Europa]

...

It seems the flair fans have come out and cant stand the fact flair was exposed as the fraud he always has been.

Ahhh, Bret you've been gone from the company almost 7 years, yet you still draw the most passion and heated debates from the fans after all this time. That's saying something.

People just cant stop thinking of this man.

There is no debating about it: He had a stroke.

Shame on you for QUESTIONING his integrity and saying that he is faking it.

[The CyNick]

Loopy,

Vince is the one who cant let Montreal go. All of his major angles from Nov 1997 to like 2002 or something were all based on Montreal in some aspect. And even after that he had HBk do that bit in Montreal where they played up the Screwjob on RAW. So never doubt this, its Vince who cant let it go.

Anyway, I used to be against Bret on the Montreal issue, but the more I read ont he issue (thanks motly to Meltzer) the more sympathy I have for Bret. Yeah Bret could have just jobbed to HBK in Montreal, but why shoudl he when HBK said to his face that he wouldn't do the same for Bret? Bret had the clause (which was put in his contract by Vince who was not under duress when the ocntract was signed FYI), so wyhy shouldn't he be able to use it?

The only way Bret would come off as an ass in that situation if he would have been difficult about how to JOB the belt.

One main reason why I used to side with Vince on this issue is the fear that Bret would show up on Nitro with the WWE Title. But if Vince really knew Bret like he claimed he did, then he would know Bret would NEVER do something like that to disrespect the WWE.

Yeah Bret could have bent over backwards to help HBK and Vince, but they weren't doing anything for him (after so many years of service) so why should he do even more for them?

As for Bret's comments, I loved them, he put Flair in his place. Man would I love to have the tape of his talking down to Flair.

[KingofOldSchool]

There is no debating about it: He had a stroke.

Shame on you for QUESTIONING his integrity and saying that he is faking it.


I place money on Flair in a shootfight between him and Bret.

Just tip over Bret's wheelchair and Flair will have him beat.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

But Bret made himself a hypocrite, he refused to job to Shawn because Shawn refused to job to him. That's extremely mature. Creative control or no creative control, he's still a hypocrite.

All parties involved are guilty.

[KingofOldSchool]

I'm sure Bret could replace that old lady in the "I'm falling and I can't get up!" commercials.

[KingofOldSchool]

Bret's new catchphrase: "I'm fallen and I can't walk!"

[Zen v.W.o.]

But Bret made himself a hypocrite, he refused to job to Shawn because Shawn refused to job to him. That's extremely mature. Creative control or no creative control, he's still a hypocrite.

All parties involved are guilty.

....

It's hard to do something for someone who is a disgrace to the way the business should go down. I think that is how Bret thought of it, and I couldn't blame him.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

....

It's hard to do something for someone who is a disgrace to the way the business should go down. I think that is how Bret thought of it, and I couldn't blame him.
Does that make him any less of a hypocrite?

[The CyNick]

But Bret made himself a hypocrite, he refused to job to Shawn because Shawn refused to job to him. That's extremely mature. Creative control or no creative control, he's still a hypocrite.

All parties involved are guilty.

Wrong, if I have a contract with a company that says I get to choose my replacement and then I go ahead and exercise that clause in my contract that doesn't make me guilty of anything. Thats just living up to the contract.

The only way you could accuse him if Bret would have said the only way I'm dropping the title is if I lose a 20 on 1 match and nobody actually beats him for the title. He didn't do anything like that, so Vince is guilty of creating a bad situation.

[KingofOldSchool]

What does Bret and Owen Hart have in common (nevermind them being brothers)?

They both can't walk!

ZIIIIIIIIING!

[Champion of Europa]

I'm using this post to say I stand by what KoOS just said.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Yes, Bret had creative control but Bret chose not to do a job, in the best interest of the company. for the reason that Shawn refused to job to him.

Rather Bret had creative control isn't an issue in that fact. Bret did the same thing he blamed Shawn of, for the simple reason that Shawn did it to him. That's hypocritical in my opionion. I see your point, and I'm not going to try and change your mind because it's very valid, just stating how I feel.

Honestly, I think all three are guilty, none any less than the other.

[KingofOldSchool]

What does Bret Hart and Jeff Jarrett have in common?

They have all the stroke.

[Champion of Europa]

What would a leader of a rowing team say to Bret Hart?

THANK YOU FOR BEING SUCH A CORAGEOUS AND UPLIFTING HERO TO MY CHILDREN!

[KingofOldSchool]

What was the difference between Ric Flair's and Bret Hart's stroke?

Bret Hart's stroke was a tragic and upsetting event.

[KingofOldSchool]

Why hasn't Bret Hart masterbated in years?

Because masterbation is wrong.

[KingofOldSchool]

What's Bret Hart's new nickname?

The Man Among Men.

[Savio]

....

I fucking despise bret.
Me too man me to.

[Zen v.W.o.]

....

You best be sarcastic saviour! :yes:

[Savio]

Ric Flair was a million times the wrestler Mick Foley was, if Bret is questioning that than maybe that kicked did a bit more to his brain than we all thought.
He was talking about how much they put in to their matches.

[Loose Cannon]

What was the difference between Ric Flair's and Bret Hart's stroke?


Flair's stroke was scripted.

:nono: Funky, you want this one?

[The CyNick]

Yes, Bret had creative control but Bret chose not to do a job, in the best interest of the company. for the reason that Shawn refused to job to him.

Rather Bret had creative control isn't an issue in that fact. Bret did the same thing he blamed Shawn of, for the simple reason that Shawn did it to him. That's hypocritical in my opionion. I see your point, and I'm not going to try and change your mind because it's very valid, just stating how I feel.

Honestly, I think all three are guilty, none any less than the other.

But Shawn didn't have the stip in his contract, so when HBK refused to do a JOB its being a Ric Flair (definition from the Shane Douglas book of words), whereas with Bret he had the right.

If you think its bad for business blame Vince for putting it in the contract in the first place.

[Champion of Europa]

:nono: Funky, you want this one?

Aww, come on. Have a sense of humor. That's no different than saying, "Ric Flair had a fake stroke once, but Bret Hart had a real one." No need to get jumpy. ;)

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Oh Vince is more at fault than anyone in my opinion. Doesn't make Bret any less of a hyprocrite to me though. Doubt that'll ever change in my mind.

[Champion of Europa]

But Shawn didn't have the stip in his contract, so when HBK refused to do a JOB its being a Ric Flair (definition from the Shane Douglas book of words), whereas with Bret he had the right.

If you think its bad for business blame Vince for putting it in the contract in the first place.

Cmon, Bret is no saint. But the Vatican should grant him that status.

[KingofOldSchool]

I admire Bret Hart.

[Loose Cannon]

ehhhhhhhhhh hemmmmmmmmm

Posted by Bret Hart on his site.

The third reason is that throughout my career I never once
refused to put over a fellow wrestler - except at Survivor Series ‘97. In a
conversation that I had with Shawn Michaels three weeks before Montreal, when I
was champion, I told him that despite our differences, I wanted him to know
that he was safe working with me in the ring and that I had no problem
whatsoever putting him over. Shawn’s exact words to me were, “I appreciate that,
but I want you to know that I’m not willing to do the same thing for you.” This
was just plain unprofessional. Putting him over would have condoned his
disrespect, not just for me but for the honor of old school ways. Vince told me
that I could leave any way I liked, not to mention the fact that I had
contractual creative control for my last thirty days. The idea for him to beat me in
Canada was solely conceived to ruin me as a commodity in my home country where
WCW had big plans for me. Not to mention that when Shawn Michaels mocked
fornicating with the Canadian flag in the middle of the ring it went beyond
being personal to me, my fans, and my country!

-----------------------------------------------


Look, HBK was a pure asshole. I would do the same dam thing if I was Hart. HBK had no respect for anyone. Bret was the most loyal company guy there was. I don't see why you guys dislike Bret. What is it?

[asphyXy]

<font color=969696>That commentary was awesome. Bret Hart is still number one.</font>

[KingofOldSchool]

He's number one to me too.

[Loose Cannon]

I don't think Hart can even count that far anymore.

I didn't think someone could be on the same level as Dark Kane, but your right up there. WOW

[Loose Cannon]

Where is Rob. I want to see him go off in this thread.

[Champion of Europa]

Why is KoOS getting all the credit? :'(

I started the Bret joking in the Pointless Game thread. :mad:

I'm nothing but a second fiddle. :'(

[KingofOldSchool]

Hey why am I getting all the credit for this?

I mean CoE should deserve credit too.

We are both in this together.

I mean I'm not one to hog the spotlight.

I love CoE. :love:

[Champion of Europa]

Hey why am I getting all the credit for this?

I mean CoE should deserve credit too.

We are both in this together.

I mean I'm not one to hog the spotlight.

I love CoE. :love:

:heart:

[Loose Cannon]

you wanna see some MOD powers in action. Watch this. These Bret Hart jokes are not funny.

EDIT: Actually, I wanna ley Funky see this stuff.

[Champion of Europa]

you wanna see some MOD powers in action. Watch this. These Bret Hart jokes are not funny.

To you.

I'm sure we'll find our audience soon.

[KingofOldSchool]

Oh and Ric Flair jokes are?

Hypocrite.

[Loose Cannon]

show me some Flair jokes that talks about him having a stroke or about a dead brother and I''ll take that into consideration.

You can say all the bad things you want about Bret, but those jokes were totally uncalled for

[Savio]

I don't see why you guys dislike Bret. What is it?
He was shit in WCW.

[KingofOldSchool]

Hey is it true that Owen can't walk? Yes, it's true.

Is it true that Bret had a stroke? Yes.

I don't see a problem.

[Savio]

Flair showed great cowardice when
he let Bobby Shane die in that tragic plane crash back in ‘75

[Loose Cannon]

He was shit in WCW.

YEAH and that's his fault right

[Zen v.W.o.]

Hey is it true that Owen can't walk? Yes, it's true.

Is it true that Bret had a stroke? Yes.

I don't see a problem.

....

What a dumbass. Of course you don't.

[Champion of Europa]

so me some Flair jokes that talks about him having a stroke or about a dead brother and I''ll take that into consideration.

Um, yeah, I'd love to do that, honestly, I would, but I do not like to tell jokes about the man I would love to have babies with. Hurts the chances of him agreeing to the use of his semen.

[Loose Cannon]

To Savior's post about the plane crash

yeah dumbass, you forgot the rest of that paragraph :roll: :roll:

[Loose Cannon]

yeah dumbass, you forgot the rest of that paragraph :roll: :roll: To Savior

[Savio]

YEAH and that's his fault right
Damn strait also when ever his name comes up I hear montreal montreal! Also he's from canada so thats a given.

[Loose Cannon]

Um, yeah, I'd love to do that, honestly, I would, but I do not like to tell jokes about the man I would love to have babies with. Hurts the chances of him agreeing to the use of his semen.


I said show me some jokes in response to KoOS telling me I'm a hypocrite. Not tell me some

[Savio]

To Savior's post about the plane crash

yeah dumbass, you forgot the rest of that paragraph :roll: :roll:
Doesn't matter if I get attacked for some stupid shit then he can be attacked for stupid shit to.

[The Tool]

One of these days Flair is going to break a hip on one of those back body drops and i will laugh. I will laugh and be happy because i won't have to see his wrinkley old ass on TV or hear his stupid whooooos anymore. I don't really care if this makes me a bad person. I am who I am.

[Loose Cannon]

Damn strait also when ever his name comes up I hear montreal montreal! Also he's from canada so thats a given.

wtf are you talking about? Did Bret book his matches, storylines, character in WCW. NO NO NO. The WCW Creative team fk'ed up Bret's character, not Bret. It's been said a number of times. Hell, Big Show even says it on the Monday Night Wars DVD.

[Loose Cannon]

Doesn't matter if I get attacked for some stupid shit then he can be attacked for stupid shit to.

WHAT? You are making no sense

[Savio]

wtf are you talking about? Did Bret book his matches, storylines, character in WCW. NO NO NO. The WCW Creative team fk'ed up Bret's character, not Bret. It's been said a number of times. Hell, Big Show even says it on the Monday Night Wars DVD.
So he could have made his matches exciting. Boring wrestler better then flair but still boring. Besides you didn't say anything about my other fact.

[Savio]

WHAT? You are making no sense
Oh but I am.

[Loose Cannon]

So he could have made his matches exciting. Boring wrestler better then flair but still boring. Besides you didn't say anything about my other fact.

Did you see the Owen Hart Tribute match? Did you see the match with DDP? Christ, if you think Bret Hart was boring, then why do you watch wrestling. And what was your other point, I can't understand it at all

[Zen v.W.o.]

So he could have made his matches exciting. Boring wrestler better then flair but still boring. Besides you didn't say anything about my other fact.

...

Boring in your mind laddy.

[Loose Cannon]

Just for the record, do you guys even know all the facts about Survivor Series 97?

[Champion of Europa]

I said show me some jokes in response to KoOS telling me I'm a hypocrite. Not tell me some

I really don't like you questioning my friend's integrity! He would never go as far to call someone of your respectability a hypocrite. I am HURT!

[Zen v.W.o.]

....

No, this will never end man. You have no idea how many times I've debated these facts again and again. I'm sure you've had your fill too.

Bret will forever be talked about and debated over.

[KingofOldSchool]

I want to go on record by saying that Bret Hart is my idol and I would never eeeeeeehhhhever speak out against him.

[Loose Cannon]

Yeah well, when assholes make fun of people who had strokes and take shots at Owen like they did, it kind of pisses me off.

[KingofOldSchool]

Yeah well, when assholes make fun of people who had strokes and take shots at Owen like they did, it kind of pisses me off.

Watcha talkin' 'bout Willis?

[Champion of Europa]

Yeah well, when assholes make fun of people who had strokes and take shots at Owen like they did, it kind of pisses me off.

Exactly, I don't know who would do such a thing. Except for you that is. You've had it out for KoOS, and you went as far to make up a corny joke about Bret's stroke and quoted it to KoOS just to try to make him look like he would mock his idol! I am ashamed of you, and you will not be receiving my vote in the wrestling mod elections!

[Savio]

Why do you watch wrestling. And what was your other point, I can't understand it at all
Question #1: The story lines and for the great wretlers Like Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, DDP, Eddie Guerro, Mick Foley, Rock, and in some cases HHH,not to mention a few more.

#2 My point was he's canadian The only good Wrestlers that came out of Canada were Christian and Jericho.

[Savio]

Just for the record, do you guys even know all the facts about Survivor Series 97?
Yes it was great for the company. What you don't understand LC is I still think your a great poster even though you are wrong on this.

[Loose Cannon]

.

[Loose Cannon]

Question #1: The story lines and for the great wretlers Like Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, DDP, Eddie Guerro, Mick Foley, Rock, and in some cases HHH,not to mention a few more.

#2 My point was he's canadian The only good Wrestlers that came out of Canada were Christian and Jericho.

okay, that's your opinion. I can't change that and I respect it.

[Champion of Europa]

Yeah Mod Elections are over buddy. Me and Funky are MOD's. Funky is an even bigger Bret Hart mark then me, so we'll see how he reacts to this.

They are? Well you still did not receive my vote.

Anyway, reacts over what? Is this some cruel joke you are playing here?

[Loose Cannon]

I can still see yout deleted messages jackasses. The Mods can still see what you delete. They're all still here. Only I or Funky can fully delete them :roll:

[Zen v.W.o.]

....

Relatively speaking and based on ratio, there is no doubt in my mind that canada produces the better crop of wrestlers, at least as compared to the rest of the north american market.

I will not speak for or against Japan.

[Savio]

okay, that's your opinion. I can't change that and I respect it.
No disrespects to America Jr though.

[Champion of Europa]

I can see yout deleted messages jackasses. The Mods can still see what you delete. They're all still here. Only I or Funky can fully delete them

Your remarks hurt me right to the bone. It hurts. It really does. It's scathing.

You must be suffering from delusions after Orton's title loss.

[Champion of Europa]

I can still see yout deleted messages jackasses. The Mods can still see what you delete. They're all still here. Only I or Funky can fully delete them :roll:

Don't use your jedi mindtrickery to try to convince us we did something wrong here. We are just honest to goodness Bret Hart marks.

[Savio]

....

Relatively speaking and based on ratio, there is no doubt in my mind that canada produces the better crop of wrestlers, at least as compared to the rest of the north american market.

I will not speak for or against Japan.
Was Chris Benoit included in that because if he was then that info is false.

[KingofOldSchool]

Yeah LC, your slander towards me and Mitch hurt us deeply.

I love Bret Hart right down to my bone marrow.

[Savio]

Don't use your jedi mindtrickery to try to convince us we did something wrong here. We are just honest to goodness Bret Hart marks.
DON'T YOU BAIL ON ME!!! Sarcasm or not...

[Champion of Europa]

Yeah LC, your slander towards me and Mitch hurt us deeply.

I love Bret Hart right down to my bone marrow.

If Bret Hart happened to suffer from some bone marrow disease, I would GIVE him my bone marrow. If we weren't a match, I would CHANGE my marrow type just to donate it to him.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Was Chris Benoit included in that because if he was then that info is false.

....

Benoit did factor in to my equations while coming up with this factual report.

[KingofOldSchool]

In fact I ask God evvery night why it wasn't me that had that stroke and not him.

[RemyRed]

So far I think it goes like this
Canada- Best Technical Wrestlers
N.A.- Most charismatic (all though we have one of the best technical wrestlers in Kurt Angle, and Jerry Lynn for that matter)
Mexico- High Flyers
Japan- Most hardcore

[Zen v.W.o.]

In fact I ask God evvery night why it wasn't me that had that stroke and not him.

....

He's thinking up something worse for you I suspect dude.

[Loose Cannon]

What would a leader of a rowing team say to Bret Hart?

Nothing, what would Bret Hart be doing with a rowing team? He had a fucking stroke!
yeah, some of your posts are back. I don't feel like putting them all back. Let's quote this.

[Champion of Europa]

....

He's thinking up something worse for you I suspect dude.

What, for being a loyal fan?

I'm sure God is a Bret Hart mark, just like us.

[Loose Cannon]

Why hasn't Bret Hart masterbated in years?

He's afraid to STROKE it!

:nono:

[Savio]

LC unleash your true power! Let your emotions run wild!

[Loose Cannon]

Hey, they could of said all they wanted to about Bret in regards to wrestling. Don't care about people's opinions when it comes to wrestling. But, these jokes were uncalled for and I would get pissed at it with any other wrestler. Totally disgusting if you ask me.

[Champion of Europa]

yeah, some of your posts are back. I don't feel like putting them all back. Let's quote this.

I hate how you slander my original praise of Bret Hart. It is downright wrong. People on MSN know, I rarely use curse words, it's not my style. You just trapped yourself, my power abusing friend.

[Loose Cannon]

whatever. don't really care anymore.

[KingofOldSchool]

Cmon, Bret is no saint. But the Vatican should grant him that status.

I second that.

[KingofOldSchool]

I hate how you slander my original praise of Bret Hart. It is downright wrong. People on MSN know, I rarely use curse words, it's not my style. You just trapped yourself, my power abusing friend.

Yeah!

How would you like it LC if we abused our power and made slanderesque comments stating how you hated Randy Orton? You wouldn't like that would you? :nono:

[Savio]

Cole: Savior with an upset victory!

[Champion of Europa]

I hate Randy Orton. I love hookers and pot too.

See, it hurts, doesn't it?

I'm glad you've learned your lesson.

[The Tool]

Roddy Piper???: I mean seriously...Roddy never trusted a single person in the business ever. It's not even like he had a bad experience where he got the shaft that changed him...he never worked for the good of the company, only for the good of Roddy. That's why he never got the big pushes when he was mass over....He always had his gaurd up on everyone...NWA, WWF, WCW...all of them, and he blames them for not pushing him to the moon. Well maybe they WOULD have if he would have been a team player.

For Bret to take ANY advice from Roddy (in the ring or out) is a damn shame because as much as I dislike Hitman, he is far suprior to Roddy in every way.



Funny thing is Piper's advice was essentialy correct. They did screw Bret. Maybe he wasn't as paranoid as you believe.

[Lara Emily]

Wow this turned into a shipwreck in record time.

[Lara Emily]

Savior do I really need to track down a full list of guys who were trained or got their big break with Stamepde Wrestling? Or are you gonna claim guys like Dynamite Kid (Yes I know he's British but he has huge ties to Stampede Wrestling) suck too?

[Savio]

Go for it.

[#1-norm-fan]

What, for being a loyal fan?

I'm sure God is a Bret Hart mark, just like us.

God is a Test mark, IMO.

[Tornado]

lol, I got bad repped for saying I think Ric Flair needs to be shot....

[LK]

On the topic of the screwjob I have made my feelings about it clear in a previous topic. All three parties were guilty.

[LK]

BTW Bret must be joking if he thinks that Ric Flair couldn't lace Savage's boots.

[Loose Cannon]

Savior do I really need to track down a full list of guys who were trained or got their big break with Stamepde Wrestling? Or are you gonna claim guys like Dynamite Kid (Yes I know he's British but he has huge ties to Stampede Wrestling) suck too?

Don't even try Lara. HE'S never even seen Bret in his prime I bet. That's why he brought up Bret'S stint in WCW and said he sucked. Savior, I sugesst watching Bret Hart vs Bulldog at Summerslam 92 for the IC Belt or maybe Bret vs Perfect at Summerslam 91 for the IC belt or maybe Bret vs Piper at Mania 8 for the IC Belt or maybe Bret vs Shawn at Survivor Series 92 or maybe Bret vs Diesal at Survivor Series 95. Take your pick, those are just a sample of some of his great matches

[Lara Emily]

BTW Bret must be joking if he thinks that Ric Flair couldn't lace Savage's boots.

Savage was awesome.

[Lara Emily]

Don't even try Lara. HE'S never even seen Bret in his prime I bet. That's why he brought up Bret'S stint in WCW and said he sucked. Savior, I sugesst watching Bret Hart vs Bulldog at Summerslam 92 for the IC Belt or maybe Bret vs Perfect at Summerslam 91 for the IC belt or maybe Bret vs Piper at Mania 8 for the IC Belt or maybe Bret vs Shawn at Survivor Series 92 or maybe Bret vs Diesal at Survivor Series 95. Take your pick, those are just a sample of some of his great matches
Hart vs Piper WM 8 is an awesome match :y: one of my personal favorites.

[Loose Cannon]

BTW Bret must be joking if he thinks that Ric Flair couldn't lace Savage's boots.

Not being an ass, I just want to know one thing. Have you seen any Savage matches from the mid 80's-early 90's WWF? Especially Mania 3, to what most consider the greatest IC match ever.

[Lara Emily]

Savior you have no idea how much Canada especially the Harts have given to wrestling. Stu Hart (and Stampede Wrestling in general) trained or helped launch the carriers of guys like: Dynamite Kid, British Bulldog, Pillman, Jericho, Lance Storm, Benoit, Bret Hart naturally, Owen Hart, Abdullah the Butcher (granted not the greatest wrestler in the world but he is still legendary)

Other people to come out of Canada or have great ties to are:

Killer Kowalski
Roddy Piper
Rocky Johnson (Yep father of The Rock)
Ivan Koloff
Rick Martel
Pat Patterson
The Rougeau's
Stan Stasiak
The Vachons
Cyrus (Great talent on the mic)
Dino Bravo
Edge
Gene Kiniski
Edouard Carpentier
Sean Morely
Vampiro
Christian

to name a few. Are you seriously going to tell me all these guys suck?

[Excellance of Execution]

I don't even know why this is still an argument after all these years. There are two people to blame, Vince and Shawn. Bret had creative control over the last 30 days of his employment to the WWF/E. That mean's he had the right to decide who he dropped the belt to. He openly stated he would drop the belt to ANYBODY but Shawn Michaels, which i can't blame him for after all the shit Shawn pulled in the previous years. We all know, whether you like Bret or not, he would not have disrespected the WWE by taking the title to Nitro. You'd have to be completely stupid and idiotic not to realize the type of person Bret is. The sad thing is, is that this could have all be avoided. The Bret vs Shawn match, could have ended in a DQ, and the next night, Bret could have dropped the title to someone other than Shawn, or forfeited the title. This way, everybody could have been happy. Bret could have left the WWE in the way he deserved, and Vince wouldn't have to pay his salary like he wanted. Vince screwed Bret and that's that, their is no argument that will every change my mind.

And to those who say Bret is a whiner, it show's how narrow-minded you are. Bret never bring's up Montreal, unless someone else bring's it up and he has to defend himself. Vince is the one who, everytime the WWE is in Montreal, takes a jab at it. So really, who won't let Montreal go? It's Vince more than anybody else.

In my eyes, Bret Hart resemble's everything a professional should be, and i've watched wrestling for over twenty year's. He deserved better than what he got.

[Kapoutman]

KooS and CoE are very disturbed little boys. :nono:

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Just curious, for those of you who said Bret wasn't even a little at fault, what are your thoughts on Bulldog saying he was. Bulldog stated that yeah it was a shitty thing to do to Bret, but Bret should have just dropped the belt that night (Shawn winning the title was the best option, rather you admit it or not).

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Oh and KooS and CoE, look I'm not the biggest Hitman mark in the world (I used to be up until a year or two ago) but you two went way over the line. I'm now starting to remember why you were 'underrated' KooS.

[Excellance of Execution]

Just curious, for those of you who said Bret wasn't even a little at fault, what are your thoughts on Bulldog saying he was. Bulldog stated that yeah it was a shitty thing to do to Bret, but Bret should have just dropped the belt that night (Shawn winning the title was the best option, rather you admit it or not).
Well, just look at the Bulldog. He was drug-abusing, steroid freak. Look at how he died. I wouldn't trust or listen to what he ever had to say. He is/was one of the most selfish people in the business. Hey, just read up on why his former partner the Dynamite Kid, hates him so much. And Shawn winning the title, wasn't necassarily the best option. The WWE could have had Bret get stripped of the title, or forfeit the title or drop it to someone else. Hell, Bret might have been willing to drop it to Shawn, if it wasn't in front of his Canadian fans. All he really asked for, was to not have his character screwed over. At the very least, Bret deserved that. If i was Vince, i would have had the Survivor Series match been ended in a DQ, and have Bret forfeit the title on Raw the next night, and while giving a goodbye speech, talk about how hard of a decision it was to give it up, and how much it meant to him. Thus, keeping the importance of the WWE title. Then Vince could of had a WWE title tourney, which usually sparks alot of interest which mean's rating's.

[Rob]

Just curious, for those of you who said Bret wasn't even a little at fault, what are your thoughts on Bulldog saying he was. Bulldog stated that yeah it was a shitty thing to do to Bret, but Bret should have just dropped the belt that night (Shawn winning the title was the best option, rather you admit it or not).

Firstly I think he should have dropped the title. The reason I was always pissed is because they agreed a finish and then double crossed him. You don't agree finishes if you aren't doing them. The best option for everyone was the DQ in Montreal and then the 4 way in Springfield with Bret jobbing to say Shamrock but Michaels winning the title in the 4 way so Bret doesn't job to a guy refusing to put him over for 2 years, he makes a star and Michaels gets the belt and a challenger for it all in one night.

Davey Boy Smith was so fu</>cked up on drugs when he came back to WWF I don't know if even he knew what he was saying.

[Champion of Europa]

Oh and KooS and CoE, look I'm not the biggest Hitman mark in the world (I used to be up until a year or two ago) but you two went way over the line. I'm now starting to remember why you were 'underrated' KooS.

Some may say we went over the line with our Bret Hart praise, but he deserves to be honored.

[Savio]

Other people to come out of Canada or have great ties to are:

Killer Kowalski
Roddy Piper
Rocky Johnson (Yep father of The Rock)
Ivan Koloff
Rick Martel
Pat Patterson
The Rougeau's
Stan Stasiak
The Vachons
Cyrus (Great talent on the mic)
Dino Bravo
Edge
Gene Kiniski
Edouard Carpentier
Sean Morely
Vampiro
Christian

to name a few. Are you seriously going to tell me all these guys suck?
Like I said before no.

[Rob]

Some may say we went over the line with our Bret Hart praise, but he deserves to be honored.

Bret Hart is more of a man than Flair will ever be. Case closed.

[Loose Cannon]

COE, Seriously what the fk is wrong with you. I always thought you were a good poster until right now.

[Lara Emily]

Like I said before no.
No what?

[Zen v.W.o.]

...

About Bulldog and what he said. The guy originally left the wwf due to the screjob, so back then he didn't believe Bret was wrong in his actions.
But after a time, bulldog's life was going downhill fast, and I'm sure he needed a job hoping it'd help him out. He would have done aor said anything at that point to get back in the wwf. I heard owen was also trying to get him back in before he had died.
Bret stated he felt pity over what bulldog was going through. He loved him like a brother, and bulldog had his life going down the drain. Ever since that damn trap door. Fucking warrior.

[Loose Cannon]

Just curious, for those of you who said Bret wasn't even a little at fault, what are your thoughts on Bulldog saying he was. Bulldog stated that yeah it was a shitty thing to do to Bret, but Bret should have just dropped the belt that night (Shawn winning the title was the best option, rather you admit it or not).

I remember hearing Bret saying that when Bulldog came back to the WWE, Vince agreed to take care of him because he had a drug problem. Bulldog said those comments after Owen died about Bret. How conveinent it was that the Owen Hart trial was coming up and Vince offered to help Bulldog with his problem. Vince never helped Bulldog when he had the same problem in his earlier stint with the WWF. Vince just wanted Bulldog on his side and Bulldog wasn't going to say anthing negative about Vince because he didn't want to lose his job. Simple enough

[Loose Cannon]

What does Bret and Owen Hart have in common (nevermind them being brothers)?

They both can't walk!

ZIIIIIIIIING!Seriously, how can you say something like this.

[Tornado]

Seriously, how can you say something like this.
Yeah, that was a tad out of line

[Rob]

Too long in the casual forum. They are used to sticking their heads up their own arses there.

[Savio]

to name a few. Are you seriously going to tell me all these guys suck?
No

[KingofOldSchool]

Seriously, how can you say something like this.


I would never say anything like that!

I love the Hart family like they were my own kin. :'(

[Excellance of Execution]

I would never say anything like that!

I love the Hart family like they were my own kin. :'(
KooS's parent's must be away, because he's trying to draw attention to himself> :'(

[Mr. JL]

I don't believe its Vince who won't let go of Montreal. What do the canadian fans ALWAYS chant at WWE events???

"YOU SCREWED BRET"

I only think Vince tries to play off that. Its not entirely Vince's fault. The fans have a role in it as well. The fans chant it every time the WWE comes to Canada. I think Vince is just tired of ignoring it and is trying to play off it in order to try and create new stars (Sylvan Grenier at No Way Out 2003). The WWE is desperately trying to create new stars and Vince see's this as a possibility then he'll go with it.

Its a circle effect. The canadian fans scream it at every event and then the next event Vince plays off of it somehow (Jericho's Highlight Reel a year ago).

[Rob]

Why do WWE play off Montreal every single time they are in Canada then? How many variations of that match ending have you seen in WWE rings?

Canadian fans cheer their own. Just like each U.S state cheers their stars.

[Funky Fly]

WOW

I expected that kind of shit from KoOS, since he is a natural born asshole, but CoE, I thought better of you. Much better.

I have nothing more to say. :nono:

[The Naitch]

I'm a big fan of his in-ring work, and I liked him up until 1997, when he turned into a whiny bitch. I feel bad for the tragedies that have fallen on his family, but I have no pity for what happened in Montreal or any problems that befell him in WCW.

[Rock Bottom]

Fuck the "screwjob," Bret is the greatest in the ring ever. Remember him for what matters.

[#1-norm-fan]

Why do WWE play off Montreal every single time they are in Canada then?

Cause it draws heat and Vince knows what he's doing. :y:

[Ricky]

It doesn't draw heat anymore though, it just makes people fall asleep because all we've heard is people saying the same thing over and over again for the last 7 years.

[Lara Emily]

NoSo then you acknowldge that Canada has been a huge contributor to the world of wrestling?

[Corkscrewed]

Ack, the whole site is down for me... can someone post a copy of his ranting article on here for me to read?

[Savio]

So then you acknowldge that Canada has been a huge contributor to the world of wrestling?
I didn't say that.

[Funky Fly]

Ack, the whole site is down for me... can someone post a copy of his ranting article on here for me to read?
Your wish is my command.

I’m sure that if wrestling fans will give some thought to what I’ve
written here, you’ll find it to be more accurate and far more interesting than
Ric Flair’s book.
I don’t know if I’m more infuriated or disappointed by the derogatory
things he wrote, not just about me, but about other hard working members of
the wrestling fraternity, like Randy Savage and Mick Foley. I wasn’t going
to comment because I didn’t want to promote Flair’s book for him, but as has
become usual in wrestling the truth is getting rewritten again and I’m one of
the few guys who is trying to preserve an accurate chronicle of the wrestling
of our era.
It bears mentioning that if I didn’t have some measure of respect for
Flair his comments wouldn’t have phased me one way or the other. Sadly, the
way he has jumped to erroneous conclusions and put them out there for the
public as the truth has eroded whatever respect I had for him. Everybody has a
right to their opinion, but in my view a valid opinion should be backed up by
facts.
Yes, I did make some unflattering comments about Flair and Hogan back
in the early 90’s. I then rethought what I’d said and in the interest of doing
business with them, for the greater good of the business, I made a sincere
effort to apologize to both of them, publicly and privately. They each shook
my hand and told me not to worry about it and that it wasn’t an issue, but when
I got to WCW I was never given any kind of a chance and whether either one
or both of them was behind it I’ll probably never know, other than hearsay.
Now, years later, Hogan and Flair have both spoken inaccurately about me and
have tried to debunk and minimize my contributions to a business that I was
born into and have devoted my life to with deep passion and dedication.
Wrestling wasn’t just a job for me, it was the only way of life I knew long before
either Hogan or Flair laced up a pair of boots and took their first wrestling
lesson to see what it was like.
Never, in all my life, have I ever been so infuriated by ridiculous
statements made about me. Perhaps they were purposely designed to get my
response and sell more books, who knows. Who cares?
Flair talks about how I could be the president of my own fan club. All
I can say is, he’s one to talk! Self promotion was an intricate key to any
wrestler making it in the business. He convinced a legion of fans that he
was the best in the business - and there’s nothing wrong with that. He even
convinced himself. But his peers, the guys who worked with him night after
night, know better. How could any fan know what kind of a worker Ric Flair
really is without actually working with him?
Flair says that I believed my own press and convinced myself that I’m
the best there is. When I boast about being the best there is, it is because
of three reasons. The first and most important is that I never injured any
wrestler in any way despite my physical style. This is something in which I
take a lot of pride and I don’t know of anyone, who worked a schedule on par
with mine for as long as I did, who can truthfully make that same claim. The
second reason is that in the fourteenyears I was with the WWF, often wrestling
three hundred times per year, I missed but one match - and that was due to a
canceled flight. Again, I don’t think there is anyone who worked that schedule
who can truthfully make that claim. Everyone on the road worked hard but I
was proud to be counted among the handful of guys with an exceptionally
dedicated work ethic. The third reason is that throughout my career I never once
refused to put over a fellow wrestler - except at Survivor Series ‘97. In a
conversation that I had with Shawn Michaels three weeks before Montreal, when I
was champion, I told him that despite our differences, I wanted him to know
that he was safe working with me in the ring and that I had no problem
whatsoever putting him over. Shawn’s exact words to me were, “I appreciate that,
but I want you to know that I’m not willing to do the same thing for you.” This
was just plain unprofessional. Putting him over would have condoned his
disrespect, not just for me but for the honor of old school ways. Vince told me
that I could leave any way I liked, not to mention the fact that I had
contractual creative control for my last thirty days. The idea for him to beat me in
Canada was solely conceived to ruin me as a commodity in my home country where
WCW had big plans for me. Not to mention that when Shawn Michaels mocked
fornicating with the Canadian flag in the middle of the ring it went beyond
being personal to me, my fans, and my country!
I remember Ric Flair and Bobby Heenan coming up to me in the
dressing room in Nashville on May 6, 1989. I was in the Hart Foundation at the
time and Flair told me he was honored to shake my hand. I had never seen him
work. Being on the WWF road schedule made it nearly impossible to catch any
wrestling matches on TV because we were almost always working or traveling when
wrestling was on. From what little I did see of the NWA my impression was that
their TV show at that time was poorly produced and made the wrestlers come
off as second rate. Despite that, I’d been lead to believe, like everyone
else, that Ric Flair was the best in the business. I always wondered, if he was
the best why wasn’t he in the big league WWF? His popularity at that time
was largely concentrated in the deep south. I appreciated his compliment and
hoped I might have the chance to work with this legend some day.
About a year later Flair was head booker at WCW and he made me an offer
to come work there for money good enough that I had to seriously consider it.
As it turned out, Flair was unable to back up his offer and the deal
fell through when he nervously reneged. I lost respect for him and his word and
smartly chose to stay put in the WWF instead.
Eventually, Flair showed up in the WWF with the WCW belt and I was
somewhat surprised when he shamelessly crapped all over the history of the
territory that made him by not giving them their belt back. To this day I don’t
know what would make him hurt his fellow wrestlers and their struggling company
like that. I admit I don’t know all the facts on this so I won’t comment
any further about it, and Ric should have done the same with me.
Flair was trumpeted into the WWF with great fan fare and at last, one
night in New Haven, I was thrilled to defend the IC belt against this great
legend in an unscheduled dark match that was taped for Coliseum video. I knew
more about ring psychology and real wrestling at the ripe age of nine than Ric
Flair knew in his entire lifetime yet out of respect I let him lead the match.
Ric suggested a finish that called for me to do a flying cross body where he
would subsequently catch me and stagger backwards with the two of us toppling
over the top rope only to be counted out for the finish. It was a simple but
risky move that I’d done countless times before with lesser wrestlers but at
the end of the match when I dove into Flair he stood too far from the ropes,
mistimed it , and he simply didn’t have the strength to catch me so we fell
down in an embarrassing heap. Ric suddenly came up with a new make shift finish
that, not surprisingly, benefited him and not me. It absolutely stunk but
these things sometimes tend to happen when two wrestlers work together for
the very first time. Although the match had been taped and can still be seen
today I wasn’t going to make any kind of a big deal about it, but back in
the dressing room I was annoyed to hear Flair painting out to everybody that
somehow I had messed up the finish, implying that I was still a young up and
comer. If you understand wrestling, you know that all I could do was dive
into his arms and the rest was up to him. He proved to me, right then, that he
was full of it and was no legend at all.
Ric was an old fox that took such liberties every time he thought he
could get away with it. You’ll find nary a wrestler that would describe me,
Savage or Foley as back stabbers or sneaky liberty takers, but with Flair you
better take a number!
I remember Flair worked with Randy Savage who, like me, was lead to
believe the same crap about how great Flair was when they had a Saturday
Night’s Main Event TV match in Hershey on September 1, 1992. He somehow
became WWF champion and Vince McMahon carefully constructed an elaborate storyline
for this very important match. I was standing right next to Vince watching
the match live on a backstage monitor when Vince blew his stack as he watched
Ric do absolutely nothing he told him to do. Ric has never been able to do
anything but his one routine match, which consists of cartoon high spots
borrowed from Jackie Fargo and midget wrestlers, along with an assortment of tired
old ripped off Buddy Rogers high spots. My dad always called Flair a
“routine man” - because he did the exact same routine every night, every where,
and was forever stuck with it. An angry Vince met Flair as he came through the
curtain and he furiously ordered both Flair and an exasperated Randy to march
right back out and redo the entire match the way he’d told them to do it!
Even then, as I remember it, Flair was still unable to impress Vince.
Personally, I would have been shamed with embarrassment to ever put the promotion,
myself, or my opponent through such a farce! I recall telling Randy that I
thought Flair was ‘thirty minutes of non stop non psychology’ and Randy
shook his head and laughed along with me at how true it was.
I can tell you first hand that Ric Flair was not a great worker at
all. Yes, he did hilarious interviews but, to my taste, I never thought a
world champion was supposed to be hilariously amusing. Granted, Flair was
entertaining to watch - and there’s nothing wrong with that. In fact, much like
Hogan, Flair’s magnetism and charisma distracted from and offset his limited
ability in the ring. The single greatest contribution that Flair ever gave to
pro wrestling was the wooo from his silly chops. First off, chops hurt - and in
my opinion they look like crap.


I have to split this up into parts due to the stupid character limit.

[Funky Fly]

For Flair to demean Randy Savage and Mick Foley is outrageous! In my
opinion, as someone who has worked with all three of them (and everybody else
from that era too) Ric Flair couldn't even lace up Randy and Mick’s boots!
They were both hard workers and exciting innovators who at least made every
possible effort to put on some kind of a different show from night to night.
Either one of them could call a great match any time they wanted. So what if
Randy wanted to put in an even greater effort by designing a great match in
excessive detail? That is a quality, not a flaw, and Flair is too lost in time
to grasp it. Sure Flair could call a match, the exact same one over and over,
talking and telegraphing every move! I can also say that Ric was a blatant
expose every time he cut himself. “Hey look, Ric Flair’s blading! ...”
Some great pro! If old time shooters like Ed Strangler Lewis or Frank Gotch
were to look down from the heavens I’m sure they’d be more impressed with Randy
and Mick’s realism and psychology than Flair’s phony chops and upside-down
flips into the corner, where amazingly he somehow landed right on his feet! -
only to jog down to the next corner - where he climbed right up and - even
more amazingly - took ten or fifteen seconds to maneuver his opponent’s hands
carefully onto his chest so he could take a phony beal back into the ring!
If done on rare occasions, such silly routines, because they are highly
amusing and entertaining, often go undetected for how ridiculously phony they are.
But this pathetic routine was performed every time Flair went blank, and let
me tell you, he went blank all the time!
As for Ric’s criticism of how my comeback was repetitive, all I can
say is that I felt that, logically speaking, why wouldn’t I break into my
patented arsenal of best moves before going into my finish? I did, in fact, change
it up from time to time, but I also recognized that most fans completely
understood what I was doing. It made as much sense as doing the same finishing
move every night, except my finish was a series of moves. The fact that Ric
took exception to this is a simple example of his inability to fully understand ri
ng psychology.
The day after I wrestled Davey at Wembley at Summerslam ‘92 in front
of 86,000 fans I flew to Baltimore. They were playing a tape of the show in
the hotel bar and I was watching a tape in my room when there was a knock at my
door and low and behold both Randy and Flair stood there beaming. They each
shook my hand and I remember Flair excitedly grinning and praising me saying,
“Brother, that was the greatest match I’ve ever seen. The greatest!”
For Ric Flair to say that I wasn’t a draw is just plain ridiculous. I’m
very sure that I sold enough tickets throughout my career. Who is he kidding?
Everyone knows that most of the time WCW wrestlers worked in front of empty
chairs in empty arenas. All one has to do is watch Flair’s DVD to see the
empty seats and the exact same match with every opponent, whatever their shape or
size. After Vince made him redo his SNME match his days were numbered in
the WWF because he clearly wasn’t what he was cracked up to be. Six weeks
later Flair was told to lose the belt to me in Saskatoon on October 12, 1992. As
I understood it, Flair declined putting me over on TV, despite the fact
that he himself had just told me that Wembley was the best match he’d ever
seen ! Let alone that I was the biggest draw the WWF had in Europe and all the
foreign markets, consistently main eventing in front of, not sold out
buildings, but entirely sold out tours! And I had a very strong following in
North America too. The WWF was reeling from sex and steroid scandals at that
time and I was seen as a safe bet to carry the belt, in large part, because I
worked hard and I kept my nose clean. When I won the title in Saskatoon that
night I came back to the dressing room with a dislocated finger and a rolled
ankle, both as a result of Ric failing to tell me what he was doing in the
ring. (I generally never got hurt.)
I worked with Flair every night for a while after that and I finally
went to Vince totally exasperated and told him that I thought that Ric was
intentionally sabotaging my matches every night since I’d won the belt. To be
honest, Ric always worked hard but nothing he did in the ring ever made sense.
Just when he’d masterfully worked my leg he’d suddenly grab a headlock and
call a long series of running high spots! Just when we had the crowd ready to
burst he’d call some lame spot that would kill all the heat we’d built up and I
forever found myself shaking my head at how we’d have to build it up all over
again. Most of what Ric called made him look like a world beater and in some
matches I’d blast him with fifteen or twenty terrific looking working punches
only to see him never go down but then finally wobble and take one of his
pathetic and comedic face bumps. Sometimes he’d do his upside-down flip into
the corner two or three times in a row and in one match, only days after I won
the title, he called for a small package out of a figure four and pinned
himself without even giving me a comeback! When I finally went to Vince he scolded
me and told me that I was his champion and from here on in to take charge of
my matches - and that Flair wasn’t as good as he was cracked up to be! I was
trying to respect Ric at the time but since he was heading back to WCW I
had no choice but to take control. Ric apologized to me saying he was having
problems at home but today he’s telling some bullshit story about Charles
Barkley and the Ultimate Warrior.
A few months later, when I found out I’d be having a one hour marathon
match at the Boston Garden with Ric, I came up with a brilliant storyline
that I ran by Vince, who loved it. When I ran it by Flair in the dressing room
the night of the show he immediately interrupted me and began telling me what
we were going to do instead. I finally had to cut him off and sadly dress him
down in front of several wrestlers saying, “Ric, I’m the champion and this is
how it’s going to go.” He dropped his jaw, turned red, and took his seat,
saying, “You’re the champ.” He never, ever got over it either. Scott Hall was
there and often told this story to other wrestlers for years. Sadly, old Ric
still managed to mess up the timing for every fall, in what I could only see
as intentional. At the time I was furious to read in Dave Meltzer’s
Wrestling Observer Newsletter how Ric Flair carried me for the full sixty minutes!
Ric Flair never carried me, ever! Years later I spoke with Meltzer about
it and we cleared the air when after hearing my perspective on it he agreed
that he didn’t have all the facts and told me that he’d never seen the Boson
match, which was reported to him by a fan who was there. If anything, Flair was
not only notorious for sucking up to the office but generally took liberties
with his opponents who had been convinced that he was going to make them. If
you watch Flair’s matches you’ll see that he usually made himself at the
expense of his opponents , something I was famous for not doing.
Enough about this so called great worker. He was a three dressed up as
a nine who left his opponents second guessing their own abilities after
working with him.
For shame that Ric Flair should take pot shots at Terry Funk, Mick
Foley, Savage, me or anyone else. But none of this is what infuriates me the
most.
For Flair to denounce me for my role in the infamous Survivor Series
in Montreal, all I can say is that he wasn’t there and he ignores much of
the truth when it comes to the facts. The most complete and accurate written
account of the whole Montreal debacle, for anyone who is interested, is
available at brethart.com - written by Dave Meltzer. I stand proud with my head
held high for the way I handled myself and the position I took for the business
and my fellow wrestlers that fateful day. I find solace in remembering two
truly great champions, Harley Race and Dory Funk, who did call me up to tell
me they were proud of me for how I handled myself in Montreal. That’s all the
endorsement I’ll ever need! That’s all I need to say about it.
Far above and beyond anything else Flair said, it is his comment about
how I exploited my loving brother Owen’s death that is unforgivable.
Frankly, this is such a low class blow that it is even beneath him! If he wants to
take pot shots at me as a wrestler that’s bad enough, but it is reprehensible
that he would judge me for the way I handled myself in the aftermath of my
brother’s death. All I can say is that I stood by Owen’s widow through a
fierce and bitter time, never once failing her or their children. I did what I
think Owen would have wanted me to do and I answer to Owen’s memory not to
Ric Flair. For him to say that I fueled the law suit because of Montreal
is ridiculous and disgusting.
I think it’s fair to say one had to walk in my shoes to fully comprehend the
situation and when I put my story into words in a book about wrestling that
is worth reading only then can anyone appreciate all that I lost and all
that I gave during such a difficult time. For this asshole to blindly poke me
in the eye would be like me declaring that Flair showed great cowardice when
he let Bobby Shane die in that tragic plane crash back in ‘75 !
Foley , Savage and Bret Hart have been doing just fine outside of the
world of wrestling. What else has Ric Flair got? I’d like to punch Ric Flair
right in the nose - but I’d probably have to kick somebody in the ass to do
it! In the infamous words of Dick Cheney, go f**k yourself Ric and be glad
that someone like me doesn’t shove your head squarely up your ass someday.

Bret Hitman Hart
July 12, 2004, Calgary
www.brethart.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------

correction: I meant to say that Johnny Valentine was paralyzed from the
waist down in a plane crash with Ric Flair. Same meaning

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Correction: Scott Hall was not in the dressing room in Boston, but it happened numerous times and he did witness it somewhere. All one would have to do is ask Scott Hall where it was. He told the story countless times.
Unfortunately, I had to politely dress down Ric Flair three or four times.

[Lara Emily]

I didn't say that.
So you still refuse to acknowledge Canada's huge contriubtion to the world of wrestling? :wtf:

[Zen v.W.o.]

So you still refuse to acknowledge Canada's huge contriubtion to the world of wrestling? :wtf:


....

Lara, you need to pick up on the sarcasm I believe.:)

[KingofOldSchool]

WOW

I expected that kind of shit from KoOS, since he is a natural born asshole, but CoE, I thought better of you. Much better.

I have nothing more to say. :nono:


I would care about that comment, but then again I don't care about what ugly, big lipped fucks like yourself think. :cool: :y: :yes:

[RaginRonic]

I just had the priviledge of reading this article, and I say that Bret Hart is the absolute shit. I have gained a higher amount of respect fo' the Hitman because he has now finally f**ken snapped, and let out a lot more than one may think.

And I agree with him when he said that Flair's crack about 'Bret using Montreal to fuel the Owen Hart death lawsuit' is inexcusable and unforgivable. It would be like me saying 'Paul 'Triple H' Levesque used Owen's death for his own personal gain.' It is something that, frankly, Flair should die for. He, just like ALL 4 McMahons, Hunter Levesque, Hulk Hogan, Eric Bischoff, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Sean '1-2-3 Kid/X-Pac' Waltman, Paul Heyman, Shawn Michaels, Vince Russo, Billy Gunn, 'Road Dogg' Jesse James, Dusty Rhodes, Jim Ross, and god knows who else in the wrestling industry(that have misused and abused their backstage power positions, and have anally raped their creative control clauses into the sewer) ACT, THINK, & BEHAVE like 4-Year old Children, and should be forced to sit on the sidelines and shut their goddamn mouths about everything WWE related. Hell, I'd much prefer to sit and watch a WWE Raw or SmackDown! broadcast with Bret Hart, UnderTaker, and (Ultimate) Warrior as the storyline & real-life WWE Ownership team. They (Bret, Taker, Warrior) KNOW THEIR SHIT! The rest I named above those 3 are just simply PR Crack-Whores, and maybe should be Deep-Sixed in massive WWE Fan Riots.

What the hell, we got squat-all to lose, huh? :naughty:

[HeartBreakMan2k]

KoOS... you're a complete and utter dick.

[Lara Emily]

I just had the priviledge of reading this article, and I say that Bret Hart is the absolute shit. I have gained a higher amount of respect fo' the Hitman because he has now finally f**ken snapped, and let out a lot more than one may think.

And I agree with him when he said that Flair's crack about 'Bret using Montreal to fuel the Owen Hart death lawsuit' is inexcusable and unforgivable. It would be like me saying 'Paul 'Triple H' Levesque used Owen's death for his own personal gain.' It is something that, frankly, Flair should die for. He, just like ALL 4 McMahons, Hunter Levesque, Hulk Hogan, Eric Bischoff, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Sean '1-2-3 Kid/X-Pac' Waltman, Paul Heyman, Shawn Michaels, Vince Russo, Billy Gunn, 'Road Dogg' Jesse James, Dusty Rhodes, Jim Ross, and god knows who else in the wrestling industry(that have misused and abused their backstage power positions, and have anally raped their creative control clauses into the sewer) ACT, THINK, & BEHAVE like 4-Year old Children, and should be forced to sit on the sidelines and shut their goddamn mouths about everything WWE related. Hell, I'd much prefer to sit and watch a WWE Raw or SmackDown! broadcast with Bret Hart, UnderTaker, and (Ultimate) Warrior as the storyline & real-life WWE Ownership team. They (Bret, Taker, Warrior) KNOW THEIR SHIT! The rest I named above those 3 are just simply PR Crack-Whores, and maybe should be Deep-Sixed in massive WWE Fan Riots.

What the hell, we got squat-all to lose, huh? :naughty:
Did you just suggesting putting the Ultimate Warrior in a creative position???

[RaginRonic]

No, Lara. I meant direct, even-split ownership between Warrior, Mark Callaway, and Bret Hart. All 3 own 33.3% of the company and the same amount in voting stock.

[Loose Cannon]

oh god ready:

WWE Booking Meeting

**Warrior speaks


Warrior: BAHHHHHHHHHH NAHHHHHHHH, I AM THE WARRIOR HERE TO MONTROCITIZE THE BUSINESS BY SELEGATING MY MORSE CODED BRAIN INTO DISTRIBUTING GROUND BREAKING STORYLINES. AHHHHHHHHHH ZAHHHHHHHH, THE WARRIOR NATION CANNOT BE STOPPED AND WILL PRODUCE THESE STORYLINES OUT OF THE GALACTIC NEPLITUDE ONE AFTER THE OTHER. TRY TO STOP THE WARRIOR AND YOU WILL PERISH AMONG THE DEMONS OF THE UNDERWORLD, WHICH WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH ETERNAL DAMOSITY WITHOUT ANY KIND OF FORGIVENESS.

**SNARLS


Taker: :-\

[Excellance of Execution]

I would care about that comment, but then again I don't care about what ugly, big lipped fucks like yourself think. :cool: :y: :yes:
Shouldn't assh*les like this be banned for blatant racist comment's like this?

[Funky Fly]

KoOS... you're a complete and utter dick.
You're just getting that now?

[RaginRonic]

Well, Loose Cannon, if you managed to find Warrior's 4-part interview at the website http://www.flynnfiles.com, you would find that Warrior had absolutely no problem putting others over him, as long as they thought, behaved, and acted like MATURE adults, and not little children. 'Taker qualified because he didn't have a 'you better put me over or else' attitude to Warrior like others did.

And besides, WARRIOR DOESN'T TALK LIKE THAT, DAMMIT. He uses easy-to-understand English when he writes and speaks. Him, Bret, and 'Taker are the 3 most intelligent individuals that have ever graced the squared circle. And I'd have no problem with them. THEY KNOW THEY SHIT! Half of WWE does not.

Warrior's had enough verbal abuse lobbed his way, Bret's been through a physical and emotional hell the last 6 1/2 years, and 'Taker isn't getting nowhere enough the amount of respect he legitly deserves. If I were in WWE, I'd probably be on SmackDown! and hang exclusively with the DeadMan, because if I was on Raw, Hunter more than likely would end up dead because of a ring mishap that I would cause.

Anyway, just stop ridin' their asses. They are right, and the ones I referred to as PR Crack-Whores are gravely incompetent, and should be thrown in jail, or end up dead. Hell, the 'roids Hunter used in the past will kill him in his 40's anyway, so his personal Final Countdown is on.

[Loose Cannon]

are you on crack? Have you listend to the Warrior the past few years? And Taker putting people over? Are you delerious? Have you been watching Wrestling the past few years

[Funky Fly]

are you on crack? Have you listend to the Warrior the past few years? And Taker putting people over? Are you delerious? Have you been watching Wrestling the past few years
My thoughts exactly. The way the Warrior talks/types is nothing short of comical. And Walker: Texas Deadman hasn't really put anyone over in ages.

[RaginRonic]

No, Loose Cannon, I'm not on crack. I have been attentive to wrestling since 1998 (though I go back as far as Feb. 1991 as a fan overall), and I agree with Warrior when he says 'The creative direction that Vince M. & Vince R. have decided to go, appealing to the lowest-common-denominator of human life, instead of going the high road, is the stupidest decision that those two ever made, and the industry is lazy creatively because of it'.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

You're just getting that now?
Nah, I got that back during the era of SSS

[Loose Cannon]

No, Loose Cannon, I'm not on crack. I have been attentive to wrestling since 1998, and I agree with Warrior when he says 'The creative direction that Vince M. & Vince R. have decided to go, appealing to the lowest-common-denominator of human life, instead of going the high road, is the stupidest decision that those two ever made, and the industry is lazy creatively because of it'.

Given you've been "attentive" to wrestling since 1998, you don't know how much of an ass the Warrior has been during his career. I'm not arguing the Warrior right now though because I know just about this whole site agrees with me that Warrior is insane and full of himself.

[RaginRonic]

Well, Loose Cannon, you're pretty comical too, but I'm not dragging your good name in the mud, am I? :rofl:

[Loose Cannon]

I swear this thread attracts morons. Just for the record do you know that the Warrior has publicly stated that the wrestlers who have struggled with "demons", through thier careers deserved to pass away. Right after Bulldog died, Warrior bashed him and his lifestyle saying Bulldog "chose" to die. Yeah, like Warrior never used any drugs right. :roll:

That's just one of the reasons he is an asshole.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Ronic, trust me, if you think UW is sane you have no idea what you're talking about.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

LC I'm glad you mentioned that, I had forgot all about that honestly.

[Lara Emily]

No, Lara. I meant direct, even-split ownership between Warrior, Mark Callaway, and Bret Hart. All 3 own 33.3% of the company and the same amount in voting stock.See problem is Warrior is an insane self-centered egotistical moron who makes no sense and attacks anyone and everyone pretty much unjustly. He would run a wrestling promoition to the ground. He's a complete loon who scares the living hell out of me to be honest. You think Flair is mad, Warrior is ten times worse.

[Loose Cannon]

So, so far in here, we've learned:

1) Bret Hart is not a good wrestler
2) Warrior should be booking the WWE.

WOW

[HeartBreakMan2k]

I just want to clear up something, I think Bret is an incredible worker. Top two workers ever, maybe even the best. Just because I disagree with him, doesn't mean I discredit him as a worker.

[Lara Emily]

Don't forget we also learned Canada sucks in terms of wrestling and has only supplied two wrestlers worth a damn :lol:


As for Warrior any guy who starts influencing his daughter's political leanings when she's 2 AND FUCKING HALF YEARS OLD is a complete and total nutjob.

[Loose Cannon]

No, not talking about you, HeartBreakKid. In fact, you have brought nothing but good discussion speaking for the other side. :y: :y:

[Loose Cannon]

Is somebody going to try and tell me that Giant Gonzolez was a great worker next?

[HeartBreakMan2k]

No, not talking about you, HeartBreakKid. In fact, you have brought nothing but good discussion speaking for the other side. :y: :y:
Thank you, I didn't think you were but I just wanted to clarify just in case. I always enjoy debates on this topic. And honestly, my opinion probably sways damn near every time at least a litte as I usually learn something new about it each time. Shame this thread went to hell. :-\

[Lara Emily]

Anyone wanna hear Warrior totally trash every wrestling fan?

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Is somebody going to try and tell me that Giant Gonzolez was a great worker next?
Actually, I was going to bring up Bastion Booger but I suppose Gonzolez will do.

[road doggy dogg]

Wow KingofOldSchool you are a big fat jizzstain of retarded.

[Loose Cannon]

RDD :D Ban his ass.

[Lara Emily]

I wish I had kept the link to Warrior little speach at the Young Rebluicans Convention or whatever it was called that had some quality shit in it.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

lol, everything Warrior says has quality shit to it.

[Lara Emily]

lol, everything Warrior says has quality shit to it.
Come back on MSN and I'll send you this stuff you HAVE to hear it :D

[Lara Emily]

k don't know if this'll work lycos is giving me trouble but it's worth a shot.

Right click save as

http://members.lycos.co.uk/larissaemily/warriorfun.mp3

http://members.lycos.co.uk/larissaemily/morewarriorfun.mp3 (http://members.lycos.co.uk/larissaemily/morewarriorfun.mp3)

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Just a quick thought by the way. All personal knowledge of HBK's aside (for the reason that some of you questioned Lance's honestly, despite his history with being honest.), a lot of you mentioned "XXX worker" wouldn't have spoke out against Vince for fear of being fired or punished. Isn't it possible, that Shawn could have gone a long with the screw job for those very same reasons? Granted he probably wouldn't have been fired, but who's to say he wouldn't have feared being punished?

[Corkscrewed]

Oly damn, Bret really DID tear Flair a new asshole... maybe two.

He makes some pretty damn good points. I wouldn't go as far as to say that Flair was worthless, but I can see his notes on Flair's character being valid.

[LK]

Originally posted by HeartBreakKid2k
I just want to clear up something, I think Bret is an incredible worker. Top two workers ever, maybe even the best. Just because I disagree with him, doesn't mean I discredit him as a worker.

I would like to say that is how I feel about Bret as well.

[sadio8]

Very interesting to say the least :) if you guys get a chance you should get the past 2 wrestling observer newsletters just for some more background info and whatnot!

[The Outlaw]

And this is a big reason why I loathe Creative Control clauses in contracts. When the wrestlers can choose who they do and don't want to job to on any given night, then that leaves the writers in a hell of a bind.

This is why so many people hate Triple H, so why do people love Bret Hart for the same reason? You'll all be creaming yourselves if Vince does a screwjob on Trips if he doesn't do a proper job to, say, Chris Jericho.
Word. It's like basketball/baseball/football players wanting to know stuff going on behind closed doors, wanting a no trade clause, etc. IMO

They are property. They shouldn't have the right to decide who they lose to, when, or where. It's that simple.

[The Outlaw]

Wrestling wasn’t just a job for me, it was the only way of life I knew long before
either Hogan or Flair laced up a pair of boots and took their first wrestling
lesson to see what it was like.

We know it was more than a job from your constant bitching, but whats the latter all about? :lol:

[Loose Cannon]

The latter part is about how Bret was born into wrestling. He watched his father train wrestlers from the time he was born. You can say that the first thing he knew was wrestling maybe.

[Excellance of Execution]

Word. It's like basketball/baseball/football players wanting to know stuff going on behind closed doors, wanting a no trade clause, etc. IMO

They are property. They shouldn't have the right to decide who they lose to, when, or where. It's that simple.
There is a huge difference here. Bret had creative control for the last month of his contract. It's not like he had creative control his whole tenure in the WWF and refused to drop the title or lose all the time. The reason for this clause is so his employer (McMahon) wouldn't run his name into the ground as he left. Can you blame Bret, i can't. Your talking about his livlyhood. How he support's his family. Bret was as far from political as you can get. Shawn was good at that. Faking injuries so he wouldn't have to job (now there's a winner).

This issue doesn't even compare to other sport's. Bret wasn't using politics to get what he wanted, like sport's player's do when they get a coach fired or demand a bigger contract or to be traded. Tell me when has a pro athelete ever had to worry about the owner of the team dragging them through the mud before they went to another team? It never happened. Pro athelete's have multiple choices of where they can play and make million's of dollars, wrestler's (at that time) had two places where they could make a good living, and i don't blame Bret for not wanting his name to be made to look bad. As for you saying they are property, does that mean you or i are property of our places of employment? I don't think so. I don't know about you, but i have the choice to find another job if i want to my employer doesn't own me. On the same token, if you or i take a job where we have special bonuses or priveleges that other employee's don't is that wrong? Bret had creative control for the last month of his contract, and Vince allowed it. Than mean's Bret had a right to a finish that he saw fit and Vince should have followed through with it, whether he liked it or not. It sound's like Vince is more comparible to an athelete.

[Excellance of Execution]

And this is a big reason why I loathe Creative Control clauses in contracts. When the wrestlers can choose who they do and don't want to job to on any given night, then that leaves the writers in a hell of a bind.

This is why so many people hate Triple H, so why do people love Bret Hart for the same reason? You'll all be creaming yourselves if Vince does a screwjob on Trips if he doesn't do a proper job to, say, Chris Jericho.
There's a big difference between Bret and Triple H. Bret had creative control for the last month of his contract, so his name wouldn't be ruined before he left the company (which was Vince's choice). Triple H doesn't have creative control in his contract, his power is all political because of who he's married to. There's a big difference between creative control and politic's. All i need to say is look at Hogan during the 80's or the Clique during the mid 90's.