why I think Bob Holly is being pushed

[Lamuella]

most people I've spoken to see the push of Bob Holly as a mistake. In a conventional 'will this result in good matches?' sense, I agree.

However, there is a sense in which this does make sense, and it's actually very simple.

Holly is being fed to Lesnar.

A time-honoured WCW trick (which WWF used fairly unsuccessfully with the Undertaker) was to get a dominant champ, and 'feed' him monster opponents to make him seem tougher. They'd build someone up over weeks or months, make it look like they had a really good chance of winning, have a hell of a match, then end with the champ getting the duke, thus further elevating the champ as a dominant force. Usually this was done with faces, but this is what you might call the heel flipside.

Let's face it, until WWE started pushing him for this angle, Bob Holly had a net worth of the square root of bugger all in terms of how he was valued as a wrestler. He has worked hard for the company, but he'll never be a main event player, at least not for an extended period. However, WWE HAS managed to get a bunch of the crowd behind him. They've built him up pretty well as a hardass and a psycho.

So the next phase of this operation is the Rumble. He needs to put on a good show against Lesnar, so that when Lesnar goes over him (and he WILL go over him, have no doubt) Lesnar seems even more dominant, and even more of a challenge for the next guy.

It's in a way the simplest aspect of booking. You builod your heels up as tough, so that when the face wins, overcoming insurmountable odds to do so, he seems like a superhero.

Bob Holly is just more fodder for the Lesnar heat machine. So the people complaining about his push, don't worry. It won't last. Come February he'll probably be feuding with Big Show.

[Pepsi Man]

I don't have a problem with him being pushed, but even when I'm not in "anaylitical mode", I can't help but just laugh when he gets on the mic and threatens to end Brock's career.

Maybe this is just due to how his character was turned into a joke in '99 with the whole "Super Heavyweight" thing. Also, he didn't go over Show last night, which in my opinion, if he's being pushed for this Lesnar match, he should've.

[Lamuella]

yeah, but that would have made Show into even more of a paper champion than he already is.

that said, I thought his "that's one of those innuendoes" line last night was pretty funny.

[Pepsi Man]

yeah, but that would have made Show into even more of a paper champion than he already is.

that said, I thought his "that's one of those innuendoes" line last night was pretty funny.
I must've missed that. I don't suppose you'd be so kind as to explain it for me. :$

[Savio]

Pep he was talking about his t-shirt.....I think I should get one of those

I hope brock wins fair and square.

[Lamuella]

he was hawking his T-shirt, which had a slogan that said something like 'women prefer it big' on the front, and he just said 'that's one of those in-u-en-does', and the way he said it made me chuckle.

I kind of like Show when he's goofy

[Pepsi Man]

he was hawking his T-shirt, which had a slogan that said something like 'women prefer it big' on the front, and he just said 'that's one of those in-u-en-does', and the way he said it made me chuckle.

I kind of like Show when he's goofy
Oh, him being a clown again. Maybe they're turning him face. This, his rap off with Cena a couple of weeks back...it looks like they may let him go back to being a comedy character.

[thebitch]

Although Lamuella has a great point of view on this, I somewhat disagree.

I think they are just making Brock seem bigger and stronger, but I also think that Holly might be retiring soon.

Think about it. How long has Holly been working for WWE(F)? Has he ever really accomplished anything? Although I'm not sure, I think Holly is in his upper 30's or lower 40's range, and he's probably ready to retire. I think he asked for one last attempt to make him seem big before he retired.

[Lamuella]

that could well be it. One more run of big paychecks as a kind of goodbye present before his retirement. Let's face it, main eventing the Rumble isn't going to fetch an anaemic paycheck, is it?

It's probably a combination of the two. Get him over, give him a few big events, then when Lesnar destroys him, it makes Lesnar look bigger, but it gives him the rub of having main evented to carry into a possible feud with someone like Big Show. At that point, he gets some more well paying events before calling it quits.

[Head]

I do understand that the WWE is just building up Holly to be killed by Lesner, and I wouldn't really normally mind them doing it, but I don't see the match as being worthy of being the main event on one of the big 4 PPVs. If they had Holly and Lesner feud for about a month, than announce a big title match on Smackdown for them a week or maybe even two weeks in advance, and have Lesner squash him on that, it would be more appropiate.

I just feel that main events for pay per views should be more quality matches since people are paying for them.

[Jordan]

Yeah he will work for the WWE the rest of his life.

[The CyNick]

Yeah I would agree with the original idea that Holly is being fed to Lesnar to make Lesnar seem stronger.

Couple of things though:

First, Holly, even if he is just cannon fodder for Lesnar, doens't deserve to have his JOB much less co-headline one of biggest PPVs of the year.

Second, I have a feeling, knowing the way the WWE books heels that are not HHH that Lesnar wont even win the match clean. I can see a guy like Morgan interfering and helping Lesnar win the match, which hardly makes Lesnar look tough.

That also leads me to the problem of Holly as choice for main event push. I mean Holly has a rep for being a tough guy, but so did Meng and he never drew as a top guy. Just because a guy is tough in real life doesn't mean that translates to the fans. To the fans Holly is a JOB guy, and now all of a sudden he's going for the WWE title. To me that just kinda kills the credibility of the WWE title and its champion (unless he kills him in 2 minutes). Then of course there's the problem that as Brock proved Bob is only a touhg guys when he's pushing around a defenseless kid and not a real man who can fight back.

Then there's the problem that Bob has shown no ability to draw in ratings, and I think he gets lukewarm responses at best. I mean which title match is going to seem more important HBK-HHH for the World Title or Brock vs Sparky for the WWE title? Like I said I think this fued, unless the match winds up in a squash (which it wont) will really hurt the credibility of Brock and the WWE title. The only thing I'm looking forward to is Cole and Tazz trying to explain why the crowd at the Rumble is cheering for Lesnar.

[Corkscrewed]

The way I see it, similar to what Lammy said, this is a fodder feud. Last year, Cena was booked in a main event feud with Lesnar where you didn't really think he had a chance. The same is here with Holly... this should be Brock's fodder feud before he caps off his feud with Benoit at WM. Hey, better to bury Holly in the end than Cena.

[Lamuella]

I agree though that it's annoying that someone who has essentially been nothing special in all his time here gets his PPV title shot before one of the Benoits, Guererros or Cenas of this world.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if this is his only title shot ever, so, not to be nasty, but I say we just enfure this and hope Lesnar's next opponent is someone like Benoit or Cena, who can do a good job with it. Incidentally, did you see Benoit's backstage bit with Heyman on SD? Benoit's acting has improved a LOT lately.

[thebitch]

He's not the only one. There have been a few other people (can't name it off the top of my head, but I've noticed improvement) that have improved, especially on Smackdown. I wonder if Vince hired and acting coach of some sorts? The only person that I've really seen get worse is Trish, especially after Raw. That was horrible.

[Corkscrewed]

Brock's promos have been better lately too. Don't forget that. ;) :D

[Fox]

I understand Lamuella's concept, and usually it works really well. They did the same thing for Triple H right before WrestleMania 2000, feuding him with Cactus Jack, and it got Hunter over even more so than he already was.

The difference, however, is that while Mick Foley is a hell of a worker, Bob Holly certainly is not. It was a possibility that Cactus Jack would beat Triple H for the title at Royal Rumble and No Way Out in 2000, but there is no way that Holly is going to beat Lesnar at Rumble 2004.

In my opinion, they could just have easily used Eddie Guerrero or another GOOD wrestler in this spot. But that's the WWE for you.

[Head]

In my opinion, they could just have easily used Eddie Guerrero or another GOOD wrestler in this spot. But that's the WWE for you.
Yeah, but you see, where no real harm is done in having Brock crush Holly since he sucks, if a guy like Eddie jobs to him that is hurting the credibility of a talented worker.

[ColdwaVer]

Yeah, but you see, where no real harm is done in having Brock crush Holly since he sucks, if a guy like Eddie jobs to him that is hurting the credibility of a talented worker.

Precisely.

I can see the logic behind feeding Holly to Lesnar, but the thing is that at the current time WWE is just stupid enough to have him go over.

[Lamuella]

Holly is a disposable hero. People will cheer him as he's fed to the beast, then turn around and cheer the next guy instead.

[Fox]

Yeah, but you see, where no real harm is done in having Brock crush Holly since he sucks, if a guy like Eddie jobs to him that is hurting the credibility of a talented worker.

That may be so, but it does nothing for Lesnar if he's beating some jobber like Holly.

And it is possible to lose a match and come out more over than you were before. All they have to do is wrestle is a very close match and have one wrestler pull out a surprise victory at the end. The loser is still the loser, but he looks good because he ran such a close race with the victor.

[The CyNick]

But there is the very likely possibility that Brock will win the match, but use a lot of cheating and interfernce to do it, which will really hurt Brock credibility going into Mania.

Hopefully they do the smart thing and have Brock squash Holly at the Rumble, and then give Brock a win at NWO against a guy like Kurt or Eddie to make him look unstoppable going into Mania, where he should beat Goldberg. at that point he would really look unbeatable, and thats when you have Benoit take him down, which would really put over Benoit.

[Sephiroth]

I just hope that Brock, will break Holly's neck again, then i would be happy.

[Lamuella]

I just hope that you will accidentally remove your genitals with a butterknife. Then I will be happy.

Shame on you, wighting paralysis and possible death on a man you don't know. Shame on you.

[Sephiroth]

I just hope that you will accidentally remove your genitals with a butterknife. Then I will be happy.

Shame on you, wighting paralysis and possible death on a man you don't know. Shame on you.

:roll: What it's not like i really want it to happen...i would like to break Holly's neck myself, so is that better.

[Fox]

I just hope that you will accidentally remove your genitals with a butterknife. Then I will be happy.

Shame on you, wighting paralysis and possible death on a man you don't know. Shame on you.

:roll: Everyone on this forum has wished death on Triple H at one time or another. We're all guilty.

[Lamuella]

I've never wished death on him. The fact that you did what he did doesn't make his comment less reprehensible

[Head]

That may be so, but it does nothing for Lesnar if he's beating some jobber like Holly.

And it is possible to lose a match and come out more over than you were before. All they have to do is wrestle is a very close match and have one wrestler pull out a surprise victory at the end. The loser is still the loser, but he looks good because he ran such a close race with the victor.
I do agree with you that it is entirely possible for somebody to lose a match without hurting them, and I would love to the WWE use Eddie in that scenerio against Brock.

But in this instance, having Brock squashing somebody was being discussed, which is why I was against Guerrero being used.

I also disagree with you that having Brock go over somebody like Hardcore does not help him. Beating just about anybody helps to build his charector, it increases his body count. With Goldberg's winning streak in WCW, a good amount of the guys he beat were jobbers, but the mere fact that he took on all comers, not just the same 3 or 4 other guys in the main event scene built him up more. Also, even if the fans don't buy Holly as a legit main eventer (which I don't know if most of them do), having Brock crush him with ease just proves how big of a gap there really is between a guy like Brock and the rest of the non-main eventers on the roster.

[Head]

I can see the logic behind feeding Holly to Lesnar, but the thing is that at the current time WWE is just stupid enough to have him go over.
While the WWE has done some pretty stupid things in the past, I don't think they would ever go that far. If they ever reach that point I think it would be time for Vince to be institutionalized.

[Innovator]

yeah even though Vince has to be nuts sometimes, he won't let Holly go over

[Corkscrewed]

Basically, the only thing I have against this feud is the timing.... Brock Lesnar vs Hardcore Holly is the sort of thing you want to have on a lesser PPV, not the second or third biggest PPV of the year.