The official MLB offseason thread!

[John la Rock]

^ what he said

[PsychoSport]

Gotta love 1B's that make 5,000,000 and slug under .400

[Hardkore Kidd J]

Funny how Pedro goes to the other team I hate just as much as Boston :lol:

But seeing as how the fans at Fenway are going to treat him when Mets face Boston will be priceless.

[MrMeJW]

But seeing as how the fans at Fenway are going to treat him when Mets face Boston will be priceless.

Do you really think Pedro can take the Mets into the World Series?

[Hardkore Kidd J]

Do you really think Pedro can take the Mets into the World Series?

Did I say Boston would meet the Mets in the World Series? I was just saying imagine the crowd getting into Pedro whenever the Mets would play at Fenway.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Well Mets playing in Fenway really isn't a common thing. Unless they play during interleague which I have never seen happen.

I don't know how they decide what National League teams they play tho, I am not sure if the same teams every year or what.

[MrMeJW]

I am pretty sure it's always the same teams because the yankees always play the mets. Either way, I don't ever recall the Mets playing at Fenway sans 1986 and I know for a fact they aren't playing each other this year.

[DaveWadding]

I am pretty sure it's always the same teams because the yankees always play the mets. Either way, I don't ever recall the Mets playing at Fenway sans 1986 and I know for a fact they aren't playing each other this year.
They rotate. Except for "natural rivals" i.e. Cubs/W.Sox, Yanks/Mets, Tribe/Reds, Halos/Dodgers, As/Giants etc.

[BCWWF]

Yeah, adding to what Wadding said...

Each year the divisons switch. So the Mets play in Fenway approximately one series every six years I think. The Yankee's play the Mets every year, every team has a "rival" like that. Cubs-White Sox, Cardinals-Royals, Dodgers-Angels, Twins-Brewers, Marlins-Devil Ray etc etc etc.

[DaveWadding]

Yeah, adding to what Wadding said...

Each year the divisons switch. So the Mets play in Fenway approximately one series every six years I think. The Yankee's play the Mets every year, every team has a "rival" like that. Cubs-White Sox, Cardinals-Royals, Dodgers-Angels, Twins-Brewers, Marlins-Devil Ray etc etc etc.
Once every 3 years. There are only 3 divisions in each league. :p

[VonErich Lives]

Once every 3 years. There are only 3 divisions in each league. :p

But I don't think they're home and home series.

:p

So, it works out to once every six.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I dunno, I think the divisions/teams they play in interleague may be random sometimes.

According to the Mets' website on an article I read a couple of weeks back, the series between the Mets and A's in the coming 2005 season will be the first time they have met since the 1973 World Series.</font> :-\

[VonErich Lives]

<font color=goldenrod>I dunno, I think the divisions/teams they play in interleague may be random sometimes.

According to the Mets' website on an article I read a couple of weeks back, the series between the Mets and A's in the coming 2005 season will be the first time they have met since the 1973 World Series.</font> :-\

I know that you play certain teams every year.

The "Natural Rivals" the Sox get the Braves every year.

After that, I thought it's a rotation, and I think the rotation going by div, till each div has played every team in the other Div, then they rotate.

[PsychoSport]

I don't think that's quite true....because last year, the Jays played the Padres, Giants, Dodgers, and D'Backs, but I'm quite certain that they didn't face the Rockies.

[VonErich Lives]

So, not so fast for Pedro.

Aperently the discussion right now is the physical. Pedro has told the Mets he doesn't want to take any MRI's during his physical, but would take a stress and strength test on his arm.

The report is Pedro has a 90% tear in his Labrum, which is a injury he had in 2001 (minor tear) that he chose to stengthen rather then surgery.

I'll lmfao is the Mets sign him and allow his to negotiate his physical...

[BCWWF]

I don't think that's quite true....because last year, the Jays played the Padres, Giants, Dodgers, and D'Backs, but I'm quite certain that they didn't face the Rockies.

I am quite certain that they would have, probably just at Colorado or something

[VonErich Lives]

This year the Sox play.

Braves, Reds, Pirates & Cubs.

The Braves, they play every year.

[VonErich Lives]

So... Gammons today was talking about the possible Manny deal.

Aperently it fell apart and got ugly because the Mets GM got confused about what the Sox were trying to do.

The Sox wanted to drop salary and get prospects. The plan was to then move the Porspects for Hudson or Johnson, and the extra money to sign Delgado and Renteria.

The mets GM (Menaya?) kept coming back w/ counter offers that evend off the money, IE: Piazza.

Jason Stark reported, The sox asked Pedro what he wanted, he said 3yrs, the sox gave him 3, w/ a club option for 4th, the Mets then gave 4 and the sox pulled out.

Which is fine w/ me.

[MoRcHeEbA]

the Jays never played the rockies last year, they played Montreal and the other teams that psycho has said.

[MoRcHeEbA]

VEL you sound a little bitter that you're losing one of the best pitchers :(

[VonErich Lives]

VEL you sound a little bitter that you're losing one of the best pitchers :(

Not at all, I'd love to have him back, but he's not worth the contract the Mets are giving him and I've heard a lot of GM's saying that.

His recent years of injuries, the fact he falls apart after 100 pitches, giving him a gauranteed 4th year is a lot.

I thought a 3rd gaurantee was a stretch, but was ok w/ that for the return on the first two.

I do find it funny, he's arguing over the rules/terms of his physical w/ the Mets.

[BCWWF]

I dunno, I don't think the Red Sox will make the playoffs next year, but thats just me

[VonErich Lives]

I dunno, I don't think the Red Sox will make the playoffs next year, but thats just me

They'll take the WC, if the pull off a deal for Hudson they'll contend for the Division title.

There really not worse off then last year.

Bullpen is better w/ Mantei

Pedro gone, Wells in.

Schilling wont be ready opening day, but should be ready shortly after. (30days).

Lowe had a great post-season but a horrible regular season, and still might be back.

Tek is still a key, I think Mirabelli can replace his hitting and can catch Wake, but not sure he can call the games as well as Tek.

if the Sox don't get Reterira (rumor is now, STL gave their final offer, it was same years, but 1mil less per year the the sox) the Sox will probably get OC back.

Plus, I'm sure the sox aren't done, wouldn't be suprised to see Clement or another tier 2 pitcher. Which replaces what you got from Lowe.

Injuries of course change everything, I mean, if A-rod and Sheff go down for the year, I'd write off the Yanks, same way if Schill and Wells go down for the year, I'd write off the Sox.

Side note... Ortiz didn't play winter ball due to a sore shoulder, he hurt in the end of the season, but still had a monster post season... first time he hasn't played winterball... wonder how this might effect him...

[VonErich Lives]

Also, if Oakland deals Hudson (rumor now is Atlanta) they won't be as strong going after the WC.

[The Icon of Elisim]

Thats not fair to say since moving Hudson wouldn't be a salary dump, the whole point is to get back offense.

[YOUR Hero]

Toronto will get Clement, or so the rumour goes. Part of the new direction by dumping Delgado's salary.

Did they (Toronto) trade Hinske?

[BCWWF]

I dont know VEL, thats the same kind of thing that I would be writing if we were talking about the Twins, its just really optimistic. If they end up getting a guy like Hudson and then another top name free agent (like Renteria), but just as of right now they don't look entirely in great shape. They had so many free agents that its hard to say what they are going to eventually be, but realistically David Wells isn't that good anymore, Derek Lowe was Bostons whipping boy all last season, and the odds of getting Hudson aren't real high, considering how many teams will go after him.

I am not just saying that in the sense that Boston isn't as good as last season, I also say that because I assume there will be more competition for the Wild Card. The Angels should have a big season, if they are consistant they will probably finish second to the Yankees. The AL Central is probably going to be pretty poor again, a close race but unlikely a WC team. But you can't count out the A's, because they always have a contending squad, and then you never know what the Orioles are going to do. The AL East is probably the most competitive division in the AL now, which also works against them. Tampa Bay is no longer a pushover and Toronto and Baltimore are going to fight a little bit more this season.

So obviously its still all up in the air, but until Boston completes some good deals I am going to predict the A's take the wildcard.

[The Icon of Elisim]

Don't forget Texas

[John la Rock]

hopefully the Jays will get Matt Clement.

I'm actually liking this team for next year even without Delgado. What the Jays really need though is a solid closer

[VonErich Lives]

Thats not fair to say since moving Hudson wouldn't be a salary dump, the whole point is to get back offense.

No, it's also a salary move, to get back prospects or younger players that wont cost as much.

Oakland can't afford to keep all 3 pitchers.

[VonErich Lives]

I dont know VEL, thats the same kind of thing that I would be writing if we were talking about the Twins, its just really optimistic. If they end up getting a guy like Hudson and then another top name free agent (like Renteria), but just as of right now they don't look entirely in great shape. They had so many free agents that its hard to say what they are going to eventually be, but realistically David Wells isn't that good anymore, Derek Lowe was Bostons whipping boy all last season, and the odds of getting Hudson aren't real high, considering how many teams will go after him.

I am not just saying that in the sense that Boston isn't as good as last season, I also say that because I assume there will be more competition for the Wild Card. The Angels should have a big season, if they are consistant they will probably finish second to the Yankees. The AL Central is probably going to be pretty poor again, a close race but unlikely a WC team. But you can't count out the A's, because they always have a contending squad, and then you never know what the Orioles are going to do. The AL East is probably the most competitive division in the AL now, which also works against them. Tampa Bay is no longer a pushover and Toronto and Baltimore are going to fight a little bit more this season.

So obviously its still all up in the air, but until Boston completes some good deals I am going to predict the A's take the wildcard.

I hear ya, my key is what happens w/ Tek.

If the Sox re-sign Tek then they're really not much worse (if anything possible better) then last season.

They will sign someone for SS... They have a prospect that's supposed to be good, and there is talk they could move over Bill Milluer and put Youkilis at 3rd. I know Bill was a GG before his injury, but not sure about him at SS.

But yeah, the sox still have spots to fill and money to spend, I'll pass judgement all around when we get to training camps and see how teams shakeout.

[BCWWF]

I'm really still not counting the Sox out on the Randy Johnson market. I would assume that they have more to offer then the Yanks, and with Pedro leaving it makes it even more neccessary.

The current deal: Javier to White Sox, Konerko/Garland to the D-Backs, RJ to Yanks doesn't make any sense to me. The Sox would be losing value and the Yanks would gain considerably. If the White Sox make that trade, they will have three good SP's (Garcia, Buehlre, Vazquez) but then they will most likely have to rely on Frank Thomas at first, and besides Carlos Lee they don't have much offense besides that.

The D-Backs would be getting two solid guys. Konerko had a down year, but I still consider him a damned good offensive player. Garland isn't great, but on a team like Arizona he would make a solid #3 or #4 SP, probably better then what they have now. They would have a starting rotation better then a lot of teams in the league.

The Yanks would be getting an absolutly amazing deal. Vazques is good, but not great. He had a good record last year but his ERA wasn't anything spectacular. He is expandable regardless, but to get the best pitcher of this generation for him, I mean come on. The White Sox would be making a horrible decision with that IMO.


Speaking of the White Sox and all, what do you guys think happens with Magglio? He isn't getting much publicity, but he is a free agent (right?) and he is really...REALLY good! His value obviously went down because of his injury last season, but whatever team gets him is going to get a great deal. What teams are looking at him? Frankly I am kind of surprised the Yankees haven't made an effort at him.

Just a little update on the Twins for everybody who doesn't read Twin Cities papers :p Well Koskie is gone now, so right now the Twins are pretty much in a bad position for infield. Justin Morneau is back, who is an excellent hitter, but no Mientkiewicz in the field. Luis Rivas, the 2B-man of the past, apparently doesn't have a secure job. Mike Cuddyer, a really above average utility man last season, is expected to take over at either 2nd or 3rd. Personally, I think he makes a lot more sense at third because, well if you've seen him he just isn't a 2nd baseman, I think his d would be better at third, and Rivas is a real good defensive second baseman. There is a lot of speculation that Joe Randa signs with the Twins, he has publically stated that he would like to. He isn't that good, but better then nothing. If he did that I could see Rivas moving to short and Cuddy at second. There is also a lot of speculation about signing Jose Valentin as a backup infielder/DH.

Overall, I don't like how the Twins are looking right now. The whole core is changing, and Jacque Jones is likely to go next. He was going to be gone for sure this winter, but Jason Kubel, his replacement, tore his ACL or something and is missing all of next season. To be successful the Twins really need to sign a third SP. I just don't see Johan being quite as dominant, and Radke just isn't the pitcher you want in a game 7. He has a good ERA etc, but I dunno, he just doesn't have the killer instinct. Joe Mays missed all of last season with Tommy Johns, if he can return to his 2001 status, he could be the one, but I am not counting on it.

I see the Twins just barely holding off Cleveland again for the AL Central, with Chicago and Detroit close behind.

[DaveWadding]

The current deal: Javier to White Sox, Konerko/Garland to the D-Backs, RJ to Yanks doesn't make any sense to me. The Sox would be losing value and the Yanks would gain considerably. If the White Sox make that trade, they will have three good SP's (Garcia, Buehlre, Vazquez) but then they will most likely have to rely on Frank Thomas at first, and besides Carlos Lee they don't have much offense besides that.


Except Carlos Lee got traded to the Brewers.

[DaveWadding]

Also, it's reported that Richie Sexson has agreed to a 4 year 48 million dollar deal with the Mariners.

[VonErich Lives]

ESPN insider reported this morning that Renteria was going to stay w/ STL for a home town discount.

Boston Globe is now reporting w/ quotes from Renteria, the he signed a 4yr 40mil deal w/ the Sox, w/ a 5th year 10mil option.

So, he was allset to take a hometown discount (8mil/yr vs. 9mil/yr) but for 2mil more per year, plus an option on a 5th.

Now, this frees up the sox to deal Ramierz (not Manny) I forget his first name, his a SS prospect that everyone wants.

Sox are supposed to be talking to the Marlins about AJ Burnett.

Wait, mlb.com says the yanks are closer to a deal w/ Pavano, and should have one by friday? So the deal still hasn't been signed?

I'll lmfao is the Sox swoop in.

But, I think it's more likely they go for other options.

[BCWWF]

Lol, thanks Dave. I think the White Sox have got to have one of the worst front offices in the league. Every year they pick up the worst players expecting to push into the playoffs. Last year everybody flamed me when I told them that Carl Everett wasn't going to be the key to the White Sox success, just like he wasn't the year before. Somebody please tell them that they are picking up horrible players.

[DaveWadding]

Also, I lied about the Sexson deal...it's 4 years and 50 mil.

They added 5 mil in there somewhere today because I read what I posted earlier at ESPN this morning.

[John la Rock]

It's a Official Pedro is a MET

[BCWWF]

John, ummmm, yeah

[DaveWadding]

and the M's just signed Adrian Beltre to a 5 year deal.

[DaveWadding]

Gammons says 5 yr/65 mil for Beltre.

[Apprentice]

and the M's just signed Adrian Beltre to a 5 year deal.

NOOOOOOO!!! :'(
O well.. If he's leaving my favorite team, at least he's going to my second favorite team. I'm looking forward to a lineup of Ichiro, Boone, Sexson and Beltre.

[Apprentice]

Oakland traded right-hander Tim Hudson to the Atlanta Braves for two pitchers, left-hander Dan Meyer and right-hander Juan Cruz, and outfielder Charles Thomas on Thursday, the A's said in a press release.

Damn. Dodgers got nobody. Screw you Depodesta.

But having Smoltz and Hudson headlining the rotation is a boon for Bobby Cox. I see Atlanta winning another division.

[VonErich Lives]

Where the heck did Seattle find all this money?

Anyway, Hudson got delt to Atlanta.

Would liked to have seen him a Red Sox, but better then him going to the Yanks.

[John la Rock]

and the M's just signed Adrian Beltre to a 5 year deal.

nothing finalized yet

[The Outlaw]

THOMAS :'(

[SammyG]

Beltre NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[RBM]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Seattle. Nice to know they've woken up.

[Loose Cannon]

WTF AT HUDSON. NO :mad:

[Loose Cannon]

:wavesad: favorite 3 man rotation ever

http://www.sportsposterwarehouse.com/warehouse/aspitchers02sl-1.jpg

RIP :nono:

[KingofOldSchool]

Oakland traded right-hander Tim Hudson to the Atlanta Braves for two pitchers, left-hander Dan Meyer and right-hander Juan Cruz, and outfielder Charles Thomas on Thursday, the A's said in a press release.


WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[KingofOldSchool]

Maddux/Smoltz/Glavine > Zito/Mulder/Hudson

[John la Rock]

looks like the Mets are pursuiting Delgado too

[Adder]

Nice to see that Seattle isn't going to keep declining, that they want to compete. Afterall, they were supposed to last year too, until age finally caught up to them.

[BCWWF]

TWINS SIGNED MULHOLLAND!!!!!!!

[el fregadero]

THOMAS :'(
Yeah, I saw a bright future for that cat.

[Adder]

Just went and read an article on Seattle. Looks like they are still negotiating with Delgado . Wow. I hope Beltre works out for them, but Delgado would be the more important, proven hitter to acquire. If they land him as well, phew! Mind you, they still need to shore up their pitching.

[VonErich Lives]

But having Smoltz and Hudson headlining the rotation is a boon for Bobby Cox. I see Atlanta winning another division.

Don't they do better in years the Bobby beats his wife?

[YOUR Hero]

So did the Red Sox sign Renteria or not?

[BCWWF]

Wait the Miz's are going to sign Delgado and Sexson? Seattle and their DH's :lol:

[YOUR Hero]

If Seattle signs Delgado, he'll play first and Sexson will play left field.

[DaveWadding]

damn. looks like Unit might be a Bankee soon :(

[Apprentice]

WTF ARE THE DODGERS DOING

So far the deal looks like this

Yanks: Randy Johnson
D-backs: Shawn Green, Brad Penny, Brazoban
Dodgers: Vazquez and minor leaguers.


I HATE DEPODESTA!!!

[Apprentice]

How can the Dodgers give up the most and get the least. WTF is that.

[DaveWadding]

Florida was originally supposed to be involved and it was Burnett instead of Penny/Brazoban

[ct2k]

Randy:cool:

Sad to see Vazquez go as he had an awesome first half, but obviously this'd be a great deal for everyone except LA.

But then supposedly theLoDuca trade was the end for LA and look what happened. so meh

[DaveWadding]

also, you are getting Vazquez and Dioner Navarro (who is the Bankees best prospect and a Catcher) also some other guy.

[Apprentice]

So basically, the Dodgers traded Lo Duca, Mota and Encarnacion for Vazquez and Hee Seop Choi..... I am disturbed.

[Apprentice]

Well, I'm just hoping these prospects are good. Or else the Dodgers are gonna be last year's d-backs. No Beltre, Green, Finley(top 3 hitters)... No lima, perez, penny(top 3 pitchers).. no brazoban(top middle relief). Damn.

[BCWWF]

Thats worse then the one with the White Sox

[John la Rock]

The Dodgers are really fucking up their team. Especially if they let Beltre and Green go

[BCWWF]

Isn't it like the Dodgers gimmick to never be good though?

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Yeah seriously...Where did Seattle get all this money?

Too bad Pedro had to leave, but the Mets gave him way too much..why wouldn't he take it? 4 years 56 mil, plus he won the ring he was after. Mets still won't be very good. I bet he is going to be more controling then he ever was though. Like demanding to get to leave early on the all star break to go the Dominican and all that. He did it with the Sox, but I have a feeling its going to be even worse now that he is with a new team, and new managment. The Mets manager is a "Torre guy" or some shit too though, so it should be intresting.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Red Sox get Renteria, and now they will be able to shop their top prospect around. I guess every shortstop in the system is good though. Atleat thats i've been hearing. Like the Top Triple A prospect, Top Double A, etc are all shortstops.

[Apprentice]

Well now the Randy Johnson trade is put on hold cuz Shawn Green loves LA and doesn't want to leave. And thats pretty important when you have a no-trade clause.

Thanks Shawn!

[BCWWF]

If Boston has all these good prospects, why not use them and spend their money on a position they need instead of buy expensive players and trade their prospects? I hate to say it, but Renteria isn't a god people. He really just had an average season last year.

[VonErich Lives]

If Boston has all these good prospects, why not use them and spend their money on a position they need instead of buy expensive players and trade their prospects? I hate to say it, but Renteria isn't a god people. He really just had an average season last year.

Everyone here is happy to have him, he's a good fit for the Red Sox, but just about everyone think the Sox overpayed for him and might have better better spending less 5-7mil range to bring back OC.

[DaveWadding]

Well now the Randy Johnson trade is put on hold cuz Shawn Green loves LA and doesn't want to leave. And thats pretty important when you have a no-trade clause.

Thanks Shawn!
I heard that Johnson was happy with the move the D'Backs have made recently to improve the team (despite their spendhappy ways, at least the way I see it) and if the D'Backs office types give him a good extension, he'd ink it.

[The Miz]

BELTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[The Miz]

Yeah seriously...Where did Seattle get all this money?
Yeah how are the Red Sox and Yankees gonna compete

Seriously though, there's a little more cash now with Edgar, Olerud, Aurilia, and Guardado all gone when our payroll wasn't very high in the first place.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Matt Clement has agreed to a 3-year contract with the Red Sox, thought to be in the range of $25 million</font>

[RBM]

Yeah guys. Seattle has like 93 million or something worth of payroll to play with. Look at the team before these past two signings. Do you see a 90 million payroll? =P Obviously they had money to spend, plus the new head office is finally realizing that they have to spend a bit more to be competitive. Still lacking in pitching. =\

Clement to the sox now? Interesting.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Yeah how are the Red Sox and Yankees gonna compete
What?

I never said anything about Red Sox or Yankees? I was just saying it seems kinda weird they signing all these guys this year. Like did they just have this money last year and not use it? I didn't think they dumped too much salary in the off season.

They could either be really nasty this year, or be like Baltimore. I think they will be good though, but that is kinda a "blind" prediction since I don't know too much about Seattles roster other then the new pickups.

[BCWWF]

Wait, I thought Guardado was still on the Mariners?

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

<font color=goldenrod>Matt Clement has agreed to a 3-year contract with the Red Sox, thought to be in the range of $25 million</font>
Nice, they almost traded Lowe for Clement last year anyway. So this is pretty much the samething

[VonErich Lives]

Clement looks like a good deal.

So, "when healthy"

Schilling, Wells, Clement, Arrojo, Wakefield.

I don't think that will be the order, but not a bad 5.

Sox still need to either do something w/ Teck or make another hitting move.

[Loose Cannon]

Well I'M hearing the deal is also done

Johnson to NY
Vazquez to LA
Green to D Backs

[BCWWF]

I'd prefer Greene to exercise his no trade clause and the Yankee's give up somebody legit

[The Outlaw]

Yeah, Vazquez for the Unit is basically crap.

Seattle wasn't using much money as it was, and then the players Miz mentioned are gone so they have even more money to use.

[Loose Cannon]

Well, there has to be money involved with this also. Like the Yankees are giving the D Backs Vazquez and cash. Cause it's a really uneven trade.

[The Outlaw]

Also Pedro has been speaking up about Boston's management and whatnot. Said he loves the fans and Boston is still home but the F.O. was pathetic.

[The Outlaw]

LC you dickhead, I keep thinking you're a boston fan

[VonErich Lives]

yeah, haven't ready Fridays herald yet, but he trashed the front office and schilling, and in todays schilling responded.

Pedro took the money, this crap that "I gave the sox a chance to respect me" bullshit.

He wanted a gaurenteed 3rd, they gave it, he came back and asked for a 4th and they said... cya!

Also, I the Unit trade I heard the Yanks gave up 2 prospects, one I think is a catcher that's supposed to be pretty good.

[The Outlaw]

He didn't really trash Schilling. He just said he felt that he should have been over Schilling. Said he was 32 and Schilling was 39 and he's been pitching better or something of the like. But yeah he trashed the front office. Seems like everyone does that leaves Boston though. :-\

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I don't care if he trashes the front office. He said a respected the fans so whatever. Its between him and front office I really don't care. He did his job while he was here, he pitched well and won a ring while he was here. So he can trash the front office all he wants, I'm not a member of the front office haha

Schilling got mad because Francona is his boy, and Pedro talked junk about Francona. Schilling tried to say something about how he didn't like how he talked smack about Theo, but really it was because Pedro brought up Francona.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah he basically said the front office interfered in Francona's managing. Said he had no say so whatsoever.

Yeah I agree though, if people talk stuff about Pedro because he trashed the front office, it will be retarded.

[BCWWF]

The Yankees are stupid if they are giving up a good catching prospect, especially if he is a year or two away. Deal away with Posada, he is no good anymore. Trade Posada and Vazquez for pitching, sign AJ Pierzynski off waivers for the year, and then bring up their prospect.

[DaveWadding]

HOLY SHIT!

The Cardinals get:
Mark Mulder

The Athletics get:
Danny Haren
Kiko Calero
Daric Barton (Minor League)

[Apprentice]

HOLY SHIT!

The Cardinals get:
Mark Mulder

The Athletics get:
Danny Haren
Kiko Calero
Daric Barton (Minor League)

Now thats nuts. These moneyball guys are really going whacko.

[The Outlaw]

:|

[Loose Cannon]

WHAT THE FUCKING SHIT

[Loose Cannon]

WTF are the A'S DOING? Jesus Christ.

[Yashamaga]

ESPN.com news services
The Oakland Athletics continued to wheel and deal Saturday, sending starting pitcher Mark Mulder to the St. Louis Cardinals for pitchers Danny Haren, Kiko Calero and catcher Daric Barton, ESPN's Peter Gammons has learned.


The A's have dealt two of their vaunted "Big Three" starting pitchers in the past three days, having sent Tim Husdson to Atlanta on Thursday for a package of outfielder Charles Thomas and pitchers Juan Cruz and Dan Meyer.


Mulder, the A's first-round pick in 1998 (second overall) was 17-8 lastr season but saw his ERA baloon from 3.13 to 4.43. The left-hander won 21 games in 2001 and finished second in AL Cy Young voting that season, but has been sidelined for three or more starts in two of the past three seasons.


Haren, a hard-throwing 24-year-old right-hander was stellar in the postseason, giving up two earned runs in 8 1-3 innings.

[Apprentice]

Well, there has to be money involved with this also. Like the Yankees are giving the D Backs Vazquez and cash. Cause it's a really uneven trade.

Not the Dbacks. the Dodgers. Apparently its gonna be more complicated than what it is. The Dodgers want to dump Kaz Ishii's contract onto the Yanks and then get another reliever from the Dbacks (koplove). Then, they have to convince the Dbacks to give Green a contract extension. Otherwise, there is no way Green will accept the trade. Dodgers are basically holding up the trade because they want to make sure they have other options open in addition to clearing bad contracts. So Dodgers get Vazquez, Koplove and 2 Yankee prospects, Dbacks get Green, Penny, Brazoban and another Dodger prospect and Yanks get Johnson and Ishii. But again.. not official

[Loose Cannon]

Oh. Kaz to the Yanks. I like him :cool:

[The Outlaw]

LOL kaz

[Loose Cannon]

Kaz is the man. Remember when he took the shot off his head :cool:

[Apprentice]

Kaz is okay but he's inconsistent. He can walk like 8 batters in 3 innings one start and then pull a shutout the next.

[Loose Cannon]

well, I heard Barton was pretty dam good. And Haren might be special. I guess the A's are shooting to be good in 2006 and screwing 2005.

[DaveWadding]

Haren is the shit. I love that guy.

[Dragon]

Yeah, Dioner Navarro (the catcher prospect in the Yankees deal) looks promising. Kind of sucks to get rid of him.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

:rofl: @ the A's..Sweet hopefully they suck now. Wildcard Purposes.

Yankees are looking real good this year though, fucking pitching staff is looking insane. Hopefully Pavano bombs in the big city just like Vazquez did.

[PsychoSport]

Wow, Billy Beane doesn't fuck around, does he?

I must say, I love what the A's are doing. Every team has a time period where they are at the bottom of the success cycle ... the dark years so to speak, but I think Beane has somewhat eliminated that from happening by trading his players at their highest value instead of letting them walk for nothing when they're contracts are up.

The A's figure to be above average next year (they still have Zito, Harden, Chavez, Durazo, and Crosby. Plus they'll have Jason Kendall, a full season of Nick Swisher and a much bette bullpen.) And AWESOME in 2006-2008. No dark years. No period of time where they're a laughingstock.

Really, it seems like a brilliant plan. Draft a bunch of awesome young players, ride them for a couple years, then, before they get too expensive/old, cash them in for new batch of awesome young players. It must be painful as an A's fan, but as an objective observer, I'm loving it.

As I mentioned earlie though, I think people are foolish to count out the A's next year. Last year Mulder was pretty awful in the 2nd half, and Zito in the 1st half, and yet they almost made the playoffs. I think Haren should be at least as good as Mulder was last year, and John Sickels thinks Dan Meyer can be ROY. Plus, they still have Zito, and of course Rich Harden is the MAN. Their offense is about the same as last year, and their bullpen is MUCH better. I think the A's will win at least 85 games next year, and be back in the playoffs by 2006.

[BCWWF]

I agree with Psychosport, this is just an example of why the A's have one of the two best front offices in the league. Spend half the money of the Sox/Yanks and still make the playoffs. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Zito go too now. Anybody who is saying that the A's are dumb for making these last two trades is pretty dumb themselves.

What has been looked over so far though, is THE CARDINALS! HOLY SHIT! Mulder-Morris-Carpenter, then go along with an offense that pretty much only lost role players. There is no way the Cubs come back for the division this year, sorry.

Also, a funny note for all you Red Sox fans...I couldn't read the story because I'm not an insider, but there was a headline on ESPN.com reading "Pedro wooing Varitek" :lol: I really would laugh if that went through.

[VonErich Lives]

BCWWF - Pedro in his interview w/ the Boston Herald said he hoped Teck left, and he wanted him as catcher, they asked him how would Piazza feel and he said Piazza could play 1st, the Pedro wants all the best players on his team and Teck is the best catcher. Also said he wanted Manny to get delt to the Mets and hopped everyone left the sox.

I read Pedro's interview... I don't fault the guy for taking the money, but this crap about respect and if he doesn't make teams respect him, how will any other players from his country get respect is crap. It is funny, you could really tell in the interview how jealous of schilling he was. He kept comparing the ages, forgetting that even though older, Schill has pitched more games due to better health.

Whatever, best of luck Pedro!

Greta moves by Beane

So, the RJ trade is almost final and goes to the league and then there's 3days for Greene and RJ to waive their no-trade clause. So, this still may not get done. Both are talking extention.

Don't forget, A-rod had agreed on a deal to come to the sox, and it didn't go through because he agreed to re-do his contract and the MLBPA wouldn't sign off on it, so it's never done till it's signed. I assume however it will get done, I think the hold-up could be if Greene doesn't want to leave, but Arizona ain't that far away from home for him.,

On a side note, listening to sports radio they had some Cardinal (sorry, didn't catch the name) or former, cause he said he didn't get offered arbirtation and can't negotiate w/ them until may. Anyway, he was kinda bitching that the Cardinals should have had home field in the world series since the Red Sox were a wild card team and they weren't. That if Schill had to pitch in STL and run the bases and a different field, things would have been different. First, if STL did have homefield, Schill still wouldn't have pitched in STL just for the reasons stated. Or if he did, he'd not swing at the plate and chance running a base.

But it brings a good question, what do you think of the all-star game deciding who gets home field? I this case a Wild Card team (a team that 10?yrs ago wouldn't have made the playoffs) got the homefield, now given, 4game sweep, so it was 2home, 2away, but do you think that's fair?

Also, someone help me here, I can't remember. I thought the WS used to alternate NL/AL for homefield I didn't think it was best record when it got to the WS, so his point wouldn't have mattered in that case.

[BCWWF]

I just think it would be kind of funny if the Mets had Pedro, Varitek, and Manny or something.

Then the Cubs have Nomar and Walker, and then the Red Sox could very easilly have the former core of the Twins in Mienkiewicz, Ortiz, and Piersynski (if Tek walks Pierzynski would probably have a good chance of getting picked up by the sox).

Its just kind of funny how multiple core players have just switched teams. I think I did a really poor job of explaining my reasoning though.

[The Outlaw]

I am waiting on Boston fans (minus Stima) to hate on Pedro now

[MVP]

Nah I was expecting Pedro to leave since like mid-season last year, doens't really bother me.

[YOUR Hero]

Oakland will be in the running this up coming year too guys.

[BCWWF]

Yeah, I don't see the Boston fans being too bitter about Pedro

[YOUR Hero]

Where is Carlos Beltran going to end up? I haven't heard anything in regards to him as of late.

[Boomer]

They are saying Yankees most likely. Them or Houston, but Yankees will give him way more. No team wants to give him 10 years.

[The Icon of Elisim]

With Beltran, I believe the big three teams are the Astros, Yankees and Cubs (I think). Yankees are going to offer him the most money but only by a couple million. Beltran has said that he doesn't want to play in a big city and is more comfortable in a smaller market. He's basically saying that he doesn't want to play for the Yankees even if they offer him the best contract.

Most of the talk I've heard has him staying in Houston since they are going to be close to a 100 million dollar contract and he obviously flourished there.

[Loose Cannon]

You know, the more I think about it, I think the A's are going to be scary as hell in 2006. They got some great young talent and I heard Gammons compare that catcher they got to Pujols. I'm really interested to see how this plays out.

Zito's going to get hammered next year though :(

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I Spend half the money of the Sox/Yanks and still make the playoffs.And always lose in the 1st round :D :shifty:

[Loose Cannon]

LOL AT BYRNES. YOU MORON

[RBM]

Cabrera to Anaheim. I kinda figured St. Louis would get him to replace Renteria.

[BCWWF]

87, 91 :rant:

[VonErich Lives]

Nah, unlike when Clemens left, people aren't pissed at Pedro. Everyone understand its money, and each day he says something stupid and people kinda scratch their head and laugh.

So, is the Daily News like a tabloid paper? We all had a good laugh today and the story about Pedro dissing his midgit friend Nelson and Nelson responded... must be a slow news day.

[VonErich Lives]

yeah, the rumor today was Beltran to NYY. But Borus wants like 10yrs/20mil.

So, I'll agree Beltran is good, but even on the old "pay scale" is Beltran worth Manny/A-rod type money?

I don't think so, he had a great playoffs and is a star player... but I wouldn't put him in the Manny/A-rod class.
He's not far behined that though...

[YOUR Hero]

I rate Beltran ahead of Manny, personally. Better defense, tons more speed. If you look at his offensive numbers, they are comparable. Manny's the man though, don't get me wrong. I hope for the sake of baseball Beltran stays in Houston, or at least stays out of Boston or New York or St. Louis...

[ct2k]

I think people in here are being overly harsh on Javier Vazquez. He had a pretty awesome first half, and a very average second half. Infact his second half sucked, but he did come through with two 8 + inning winning outings when we needed it most. Looking at it Mark Mulder had just as bad a second half before a hot patch at the end, but because he won a ton of games everyones letting him off the hook:p

Anyway yeah, Beltran sure would be a nice addition.

But tbh coming away from this off season with Johnson and Pavano i'd be happy enough.

[BCWWF]

Vazquez isn't bad, but he has an inflated record because he was on the Yankees and it would take about three Vazquez's to be equal to one Randy.

[Excellance of Execution]

Vazquez isn't bad, but he has an inflated record because he was on the Yankees and it would take about three Vazquez's to be equal to one Randy.
Vazquez remings me of Jeff Weaver in a way. Weaver was very good Detroit, much like Vazquez was for Montreal. Both come to the Yanks with high expectations. Weaver pretty much bombed, while Vazquez did better and showed glimpses but wasn't as good as expected. I think alot of New York Yankee fan's thought he would be the next Pedro. I think Vazquez and Weaver are the types of pitcher's that flourish in smaller market's. I think it would be good for Vazquez and the Yanks to move him.

[VonErich Lives]

Vazquez was better on Montreal for the same reason he will now be better in the NL.

It's easier to pitch in the NL then the AL.

Very few have gone from the NL to the AL and done as well as they did in the NL.

[BCWWF]

Do you think that if he goes back to the NL he would have the same results as he did in Montreal?

Also, LA isn't a small market really.

[BCWWF]

NEWS: The Dodgers just pulled out of the three-way deal. No trade for now.

[DaveWadding]

it's DEAD :love:

*rejoices*

[VonErich Lives]

Do you think that if he goes back to the NL he would have the same results as he did in Montreal?

Also, LA isn't a small market really.

Probably close, and no, LA isn't a small market.

the simple rule is the AL has a DH and NL has a pitcher hitting. That's 1/9th.

But, if you look at most NL teams (typically) they are built more on defense where AL is built more on hitting. Typically an NL team has more "dead hitters" then an AL team. Catcher, SS, are two examples.

There are some exceptions, Pedro was one.

Glad the deal is dead, didn't want to see RJ in NY. There is talk the deal may start again now the Dodgers signed JD Drew, there is also talk that the Dodgers may deal Green to Arizona in a deal that doesn't involve NYY.

[House of Pancakes]

Regardless of this deal being dead, the Yankees will wind up with Johnson, Carlos Beltran, or both.

[VonErich Lives]

Sox signed Wade Miller.

So, Schillings, Wells, Clemment, Miller, Wakefield, Arroyo.

I think there's a trade in the works and Arroyo gets delt which leaves Wake as oddman-out early in the season until/incase one of those guys breaks down.

[VonErich Lives]

Sox signed Tek.

*does a happy dance*

[MrMeJW]

Sox give us an early Christmas gift... I am so relieved right now

[BCWWF]

I wouldn't neccessarily say that the NL is less offensive. Bonds, Sosa, Pujols, all the big power guys are in the NL by far. I would agree that the whole lineup generally might not be as solid as an AL lineup, but IMO the NL has much more dangerous players then the AL.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I just don't think you'll see another huge contract like A-Rod or Manny got. I think it was mistake giving them both a huge contract like that and MLB probably won't make the same mistake again. Unless the Yankees give them what he is asking for. It is a shitload of money though, I know the Yanks got EXTREMELY deep pockets but I don't know. I think they might have a limit at some point.

Nice, Veritek signed with the Sox? That post mentioning it was the 1st i've heard about it.

[MoRcHeEbA]

4 years 40 million

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Yea just looked it up..SICK DEALLLL

Also saw that the Red Sox picked up Wells, Clement, and Miller all for around the same that Pedro was making. Good shit. I am feeling a lot better now that the Sox have picked up a few pretty pitchers and picked up Veritek. Also Rameriz, Ortiz, and Renteria in the 3-4-5 slot :drool:

[VonErich Lives]

I wouldn't neccessarily say that the NL is less offensive. Bonds, Sosa, Pujols, all the big power guys are in the NL by far. I would agree that the whole lineup generally might not be as solid as an AL lineup, but IMO the NL has much more dangerous players then the AL.

Word it however you want, it's easier to pitch in the NL then the AL.

Pitcher hitting vs. DH
Plus most NL teams tend to be more speed/defense, where AL teams tend to have better hitting.

As for "the NL has much more dangerous players then the AL." :wtf:

Top 5 BA
3- AL
2-NL

Top 5 HR
1 - AL
4- NL

Top 5 RBI
4 - AL
1 - NL

Yes, the NL has some great hitter that are "dangerous" but so does the AL.
(oh, and I'd replace Sosa w/ Beltre)

AL - Vlad, A-rod, Manny, Ortiz.

[VonErich Lives]

I don't have the details, but the Sox have Tec "Limited trade protection" they said it covers the first years of his contract (after that he becomes a 10/5 guy anyway).

They didn't give details of what that means, but I wouldn't be shocked if the MLBPA challenges it because the sox are giving Teck a form of a no-trade clause, which should kick in those options for Manny, Ortiz & Nixon. But it sounds like the Sox found a way to do it w/o their clauses kicking in.

[Adder]

Boston's pitching is looking better and better all the time. With their deep bullpen and offensive punch, anyone that was writing them off (mee included to a point) better think twice.

[The Icon of Elisim]

Astros have offered Beltran a 96 million dollar contract over 6 years.

They are saying that its between Houston and the Yankees with the Cubs as a possibility if they move Sosa. I've also heard that the Mets are in there too.

I think Beltran will end up with the Astros, he likes it there a lot more than New York and the Yankees probably won't go too much over 100 million so the contracts will be close.

[BCWWF]

I think Beltran will end up with the Astros too, but I am not going to count the Yankees out by any means.

Want to know whats stupid? Carl Pohlad (Twins owner) reportedly has deeper pockets than Stienbrenner, yes the Twins sit on their 56 million payroll. He is near the end of his life, just go spend some cash!

[BCWWF]

Also, according to things I've been reading the Twins don't plan to make any more free agent pick ups now that arbitration is over. Meh.

[MVP]

Clement :love:

[BCWWF]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Reds sign Eric Milton!!!!

Go Supreme, suck it skanks!

[BCWWF]

I thought I should bump this again, because it is so funny...

Milton signs with Reds

[BCWWF]

Supreme, post you pussy, I need to rep you

[The Outlaw]

Your last post was only 16 minutes after the previous, that is not bumping lad.

[BCWWF]

I know, but there are like 10 active topics and I posted in all of them, but this was the first one. That means by the time I was done this this thread was low on the page, when it deserves to be on the top, it really should be sticky, but thats just me.

[BCWWF]

OK, VEL I know you've got something to say here :mad:

[BCWWF]

Well shit, I thought this was a big deal :?: I mean the Yankees were kind of relying on getting a strong left handed pitcher to boost their lineup, and now that kind of fucks them up bad. If they don't get Randy their lineup could be a complete bust.

[VonErich Lives]

OK, VEL I know you've got something to say here :mad:

Nothing to see here, keep it moving... :shifty:

[BCWWF]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Loose Cannon]

Milton is a Yankee project.

[Loose Cannon]

*was

[BCWWF]

Mussina-Pavano-Vazquez, who else is on their starting lineup as of this second? Brown, Lieber, are they still around?

I smell a David Cone comeback

[Loose Cannon]

No I meant Milton came up through the Yankee farm system. But they traded him to the Twins for someone I forgot.

[RBM]

Mussina, Pavano, Wright, Brown, Vazquez

Lieber is a Philly now. El Duque is a White sock.

[BCWWF]

It was in the Knoblauch trade I think, I think Cristian Guzman and somebody else were in that trade too. I don't think any Yankee regrets that trade, when Knoblauch was able to throw a ball he was damn good.

[VonErich Lives]

Mussina-Pavano-Vazquez, who else is on their starting lineup as of this second? Brown, Lieber, are they still around?

I smell a David Cone comeback

Lieber is in Philly.

Brown is there, the Yanks have been trying to dump him and his salary w/ no luck.

[RBM]

No I meant Milton came up through the Yankee farm system. But they traded him to the Twins for someone I forgot.

I'm guessing Knoblauch?

[Loose Cannon]

Yankees Suxxxxxxxxxx.

[BCWWF]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Wright, even so their starting 5 has the ability to be a complete bust. They need Randy now more then ever.

[Loose Cannon]

yep, there ya go. It was Guzman, Milton, Buchanan, Mota and cash for Knoblauch. hahah. robbed

[Loose Cannon]

Brown will be gone. Randy wll be a Yankee.

[BCWWF]

Mota? The Mota on the Marlins now???

[RBM]

Eh, even so... a 42(?) year old guy who has no cartilage left in his knees and has injury and surgery problems the past few years isn't exactly a sure bet. Also, the Dbacks have in their head that they can contend this year and want a shitload for Randy due to the fact that they seem to be content with keeping him.

[Loose Cannon]

Even if the Yankees don't get Randy, I'm sure they'll sign or trade for somebody huge (pitcher) come March. I wish they could of taken Mulder or Hudson. god dam.

[RBM]

I'm guessing they'll try to work with what they currently have right now in the pitching department and make a huge push to land Beltran.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

The Yankees were one game away from the World Series last year so they can still win with the pitching they got..they don't NEED Randy Johnson to be succesful.

[BCWWF]

It does help tho

[Rain Man]

Phillies are just terrible they have no commitment to winning they just let go of their best pitcher from last year Eric Milton to the Reds, fuck the phillies.

[VonErich Lives]

The Yankees were one game away from the World Series last year so they can still win with the pitching they got..they don't NEED Randy Johnson to be succesful.

This is true.

I don't see the yanks pulling off the deal, I think they're going to hold onto what they have left as trade bait for March, maybe then if the DB are out they can pull a deal, and see what they need at that point.

Last rumor I heard is the Dodgers and DB may pull a deal for Greene w/o RJ or the Yanks, if that happens I don't see RJ going anywhere cause clearly the DB's are making a commitment to win... of course it also means MLB will endup bailing them out again... which if that happens they should just force the team to move or fold.

[VonErich Lives]

Luxury tax bills came out... or I guess estimates, I'm not sure when they close at.

3-teams.

Angels pay under 1mil.

Red Sox around 3mil

Yanks pay 25mil.

25mil in Luxury tax, isn't that like the Twins whole payroll? :)

[YOUR Hero]

I wonder if the Jays will go after Delgado again. They had offered him 10mil a season and he turned that down. From what I've seen however, the offers Delgado has been getting, so far, haven't been much more than that.

[Loose Cannon]

Luxury tax bills came out... or I guess estimates, I'm not sure when they close at.

3-teams.

Angels pay under 1mil.

Red Sox around 3mil

Yanks pay 25mil.

25mil in Luxury tax, isn't that like the Twins whole payroll? :)

It may be the Twins whole payroll, but like a lot of other owners, thier owner doesn't spend the cash. BCWWF proved what I've been saying for years (not just on here) that Steinbrener isn't the richest owner in the MLB, he just spends his cash on talent to win. So all of the "The Yankees win all the time because they have the most money" comments are complete crap.

[BCWWF]

The Twins payroll is 56 million, but I am pretty sure one of those teams, maybe D-Rays, is around 25.

Like Loose Cannon said, I am almost positive Carl Pohlad has more money then George Stienbrenner

[VonErich Lives]

It may be the Twins whole payroll, but like a lot of other owners, thier owner doesn't spend the cash. BCWWF proved what I've been saying for years (not just on here) that Steinbrener isn't the richest owner in the MLB, he just spends his cash on talent to win. So all of the "The Yankees win all the time because they have the most money" comments are complete crap.

I don't think the issue w/ george is, is he the richest owner.

He does have one of, if not the most profitable franchises.

Stadium size, Mechandise and the Yes network.

The Sox have a smaller stadium, but also do a ton w/ mechandise and the new owners and making better use of NESN.

It's like in Hockey, the owner of the Bruins Jeremy Jacobs has a lot of money, but runs the team as a business and will only spend a % of team profit on payroll, and doesn't factor his own personal wealth.

I just still don't get the D-Backs, if they do well and can't make payroll again, the league should just take the team away and fold it.

[Loose Cannon]

No the issue is people always saying to me "Yankees win all the time because Steinbrener has the most money." When the Yankees were losing all the time from 85-95, I never heard those complaints. It wasn't until 98 that it started coming out, ahhhh, just pisses me off.

Anyway I have some cool statistic in my sports marketing book having to do with MLB teams. I wanted to post it now, but I totally forgot what it was. It has to do with something along these lines though. I'll get it later, it's in my car right now.

[BCWWF]

What kind of car?

[VonErich Lives]

No the issue is people always saying to me "Yankees win all the time because Steinbrener has the most money." When the Yankees were losing all the time from 85-95, I never heard those complaints. It wasn't until 98 that it started coming out, ahhhh, just pisses me off.

Anyway I have some cool statistic in my sports marketing book having to do with MLB teams. I wanted to post it now, but I totally forgot what it was. It has to do with something along these lines though. I'll get it later, it's in my car right now.

Yeah, people have it wrong, George probably isn't the richest owner, but he probably does have the most profitable team.

But he plays by the rules, he's gonna pay that 25mil luxury tax, and I think every year in a row you're over, the penalty % increases.

He did have a good point a few years back, if he has to pay 25mil that's div between the other teams who aren't over, they should be required to increase they're payroll by that amount or not get the money.

What's the point of giving 2mil in penalty money from the yanks to say the Twins if he's not going to spend it on the team.

[Loose Cannon]

Honda Civic 2001

[Nervous Ferret]

Steinbrenner is the 2nd richest owner. The guy in Cleveland is the richest I believe. But, obviously Steinbrenner is willing to pay the most.

[Loose Cannon]

wrong.

[Loose Cannon]

Forbes just did there ranking thing for richest people in the world:

Baseball Owners:

Carl Pohlad #88: Twins
Arte Moreno #244: Angels
John Moores #347: Padres
Tom Hicks #350: Rangers
Tom Werner #396: Red Sox

Stein wasn't even on the list. So from now on if anybody makes mention that Steinbrener has the most money and that's why the Yankees win, I'm just going to quote this post.

[BCWWF]

Fuck you Pohlad :rant:


Spend some cash and win a World Series before you die

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Yankees are the most profitable team, so Steinbrener gets to spend the most money. Steinbrener makes the most, then spends the most, which makes him not one of the richest owners. Quote that post all you want, wouldn't really make sense..since the Yanks have the highest payroll by far?

[Nervous Ferret]

Wow.. I was so fucking wrong.
Anyway it's because most owners don't commit their whole life, and all their money into their team. They all have big shares in major companies which is were they spend there money.

[Loose Cannon]

Yankees are the most profitable team, so Steinbrener gets to spend the most money. Steinbrener makes the most, then spends the most, which makes him not one of the richest owners. Quote that post all you want, wouldn't really make sense..since the Yanks have the highest payroll by far?

What? You do know that those other owners profit from other kinds of financial investments right? It's not just baseball teams they own. And NO STEINBRENER DOES NOT MAKE THE MOST. I guess I'll never convince some people though.

Steinbrener may make the most IN BASEBALL, but not in life.

[Loose Cannon]

and that's my point anyway. The Yankees have the highest payroll because George spends his money on his team.

But don't go and say to me "Steinbrener is the richest owner, who owns a baseball team, and that's why the Yankees win." That's total bullshit.

[Loose Cannon]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/0329/1360060.html

hey look here, the Yankees aren't even the most profitable team in baseball and there are other teams very close to them, who are behind them. So let's just throw that argument out the window now too.

They are worth the most however

[VonErich Lives]

and that's my point anyway. The Yankees have the highest payroll because George spends his money on his team.

But don't go and say to me "Steinbrener is the richest owner, who owns a baseball team, and that's why the Yankees win." That's total bullshit.

Your both right... to en extent... I think what Stima missing is you're talking personal worth, he's talking team proffit.

Yes, there are owners who are worth more then George, personal worth.

The Yanks are worth the most and in 2001 were 2nd most profitable.

If the Yanks didn't have YES and Didn't make such a profit, I doubt you'd see them spend this way. Even george has said he does have a cap limit that is a factor of his cap and what he'll pay for being over it.

So, no he is not the "richest owner" personal worth.

But in 2001 he owned the 2nd most profitable team.

That still (as you can see) doesn't stop a lot of team from spending. Some owners don't mind dipping into personal wealth or money from other businesses to try and win w/ their "toy" but some keep them seperate and I don't blame them.

[Loose Cannon]

I mean I can see why owners don't spend thier money because baseball is not 1st on thier list. I guess it's just a matter of priority really.

And VEL, yeah what you said up there about Steinbrener having to give money to other teams and then those teams don't even use it for baseball, that just makes me go, "wtf?"
It's like free money and they still don't spend it on thier teams.

[RBM]

Why should virtually every other manager have to spend 2, 3, even 4 times the amount they are spending right now to compete with Steinbrenner. Do you honestly think their should be 200 million dollar payrolls?

Most teams know they aren't going to compete with the Yankees and a few other teams in terms of spending, so they may as well save themselves alot of money by simply not spending anymore. This will always keep the payrolls lopsided.

But hey... I'll keep laughing. The Yankees should realize that they had their highest level of success when they weren't trying to form an allstar team. 6-7 years ago when a good portion of their team was out of their own system and they were trading for/signing guys like Tino and Brosius and Knoblauch, which weren't superstars, but seemed to always come through when needed. They were respectable then.

They can keep spending and spending and I'll keep laughing and laughing when they lose every year. The only thing worse than losing to the Bosox after getting ahead 3 games in the playoffs would be for the Devil Rays to magically make the playoffs next year and eliminate the Yankess on a 30 million dollar payroll. =P

By the way, I completely agree on how fucking retarded it is that lower end teams don't spend luxury tax money to improve their teams. That's fucking ridiculous.

[VonErich Lives]

I mean I can see why owners don't spend thier money because baseball is not 1st on thier list. I guess it's just a matter of priority really.

And VEL, yeah what you said up there about Steinbrener having to give money to other teams and then those teams don't even use it for baseball, that just makes me go, "wtf?"
It's like free money and they still don't spend it on thier teams.

I've long been in favor of folding a few teams.

It will make the game better, control spending, make teams more profitable etc...

WTF, just get rid of a few of the non-profitable or valuable teams.

Fewer teams to follow, more mrechandise sold by teams since people will root for other teams, much better product, most the #3 pitchers wouldn't have played before the expansions.

I'm not saying 1/2 the league, just like say 2 teams per confrence.

[Loose Cannon]

I also agree with anyone who says there should be a cap in baseball. A real cap. It would throw all these arguments out the window.

[BCWWF]

Who would you fold though?

[YOUR Hero]

By the way, I completely agree on how fucking retarded it is that lower end teams don't spend luxury tax money to improve their teams. That's fucking ridiculous.
Yeah.

They should have to forfit the luxury tax money to baseball's pension or something if they don't use it.<!-- / message -->

[YOUR Hero]

Just heard that Randy Johnson is about to head to the Yankees. Vasquez going to Arizona... here we go again.

[BCWWF]

I swear the Twins are like the one of the best organizations based on personnel, but easily one of the worst economically. The Metrodome has been out of date forever now, it could be the worst park in MLB right now, I can't think of a worse one besides maybe Tropicana Field. They are losing millions of dollars by having to use the Dome still because it gets shit attendance and has a bad lease, but now like 10 years later they are still trying to figure out how to fund a new arena. Its so rediculous, about 10 other stadiums have been built in the time that they have been debating this. Then last season they started up a tv network called Victory One, similar to YES, but they couldn't get the major cable providers to pick it up. DirecTV is owned by Fox, so they wouldn't because they wanted to keep the Twins on FSN, and all the other ones were shit like that too. After going the first third of the season with no Twins coverage in metro areas, they finally gave up and went back to FSN. Theres millions more dollars lost.

If the Twins win another division championship this year it will be very very impressive, but also very bad for the organization as whole. They have been spoiling the people of Minnesota by winning under these shitty conditions so now people don't realize and don't care about all the economic shit. Soon enough they are going to be at the end of their lease with the Metrodome and they are going to leave and go to Portland. People here will put up one helluva fit, but it will just be retarded because they have been bitching about stadium funding for so long but not getting anything done and soon it will be too late. Stupid people who don't realize what a state of the art stadium can do for an economy bitch and bitch and bitch about public funding for a stadium and then bitching that Pohlad doesn't spend more and then when they have the opportunity to move and do it will be going crazy to try to get them to stay, but it will be too late.

The people of Minnesota have been spoiled in the past few years and that is going to fuck us over for ever getting a stadium and being able to have a more competitive payroll. How about that?

[VonErich Lives]

off the top of my head.

I'd fold, Tampa - They don't compete, don't have a big following and aren't very profitable.

Florida - not a big following and when they do compete it's at a finacial defiecet and they have to have a firesale

Arizona. - They have a bigger following then the other two, but they can't turn a profit, any team that had to have MLB give it money because they couldn't afford they're payroll for the week has problems.

I'd hate to fold the Twins, but either they get a new dome, or they move.

Expos would probably be the 4th.

As for the network, the Twins have to take a hit fitst, NESN (Red Sox) did the same thing, for he first few yeears, most people didn't get to see home games and as time went, more people demanded to see it and at first it was a pay cable channel, it cost $10.00/month a few years ago, they re-did it, so you get it w/ basic cable, and they get a bigger audice and can sell more marketing.

[DaveWadding]

off the top of my head.

I'd fold, Tampa - They don't compete, don't have a big following and aren't very profitable.

Florida - not a big following and when they do compete it's at a finacial defiecet and they have to have a firesale

Arizona. - They have a bigger following then the other two, but they can't turn a profit, any team that had to have MLB give it money because they couldn't afford they're payroll for the week has problems.

I'd hate to fold the Twins, but either they get a new dome, or they move.

Expos would probably be the 4th.

As for the network, the Twins have to take a hit fitst, NESN (Red Sox) did the same thing, for he first few yeears, most people didn't get to see home games and as time went, more people demanded to see it and at first it was a pay cable channel, it cost $10.00/month a few years ago, they re-did it, so you get it w/ basic cable, and they get a bigger audice and can sell more marketing.
Why would you fold two teams that they just brought into the league 6 years ago?

Why not fold Milwaukee, I mean, who gives a shit about the Brewers?

Then the Nats...obviously.

Maybe Kansas City...

and the Yankees :).

[VonErich Lives]

Why not fold Milwaukee, I mean, who gives a shit about the Brewers?


umm, yeah... fold one of the most profitbale teams in the league that makes sense.

:roll:

[BCWWF]

Milwaukee wouldn't even be an option because they have a new arena and are basically owned by MLB.

Kansas City probably isn't an option either because I am sure they still bring in more money and following than a lot of other teams.

[Loose Cannon]

JOHNSON About to be Traded To THE YANKEES

Told ya So :D http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1955906

[BCWWF]

Yeah it was on the bottom line a few minutes ago

"Inside sources in the MLB say that the Yankees and Devil Rays are close to signing a trade that would send Randy Johnson to the Yankees and Javier Vazquez, prospects, and cash to the Devil Rays"

[Loose Cannon]

*Diamondbacks :o

[BCWWF]

lol, I've always got the two teams mixed up

[DaveWadding]

umm, yeah... fold one of the most profitbale teams in the league that makes sense.

:roll:
the question isn't that they're profitable, the question was who gives a shit?

The Clippers are profitable too, you know...

[VonErich Lives]

the question isn't that they're profitable, the question was who gives a shit?

The Clippers are profitable too, you know...

No, dave the questions is are they profitable, that's what's being discussed.

as for who cares, aperently a lot of people, otherwise they wouldn't be very profitable would they?

Just because you're not a brewers fan, just because your fav team couldn't afford it's payroll and had to be bailed out.

[BCWWF]

The Twins lose money every year

[VonErich Lives]

The Twins lose money every year

Hence why I said before I'd have the Twins on the list, but those others I'd fold first. I think the Twins could be profitable w/ a new stadium... Wasn't there some big thing a few years ago trying to get a new stadium?

[BCWWF]

A few years ago/ongoing for about 10 years now :rant:

If they don't pass legislation soon the Twins will be gone, but people don't realize that

[VonErich Lives]

So, new meaning to "Yanking the Big Unit".

Can't wait to see the shirts they come up w/ outside fenway.

Also, hope schilling is healthy and RJ gets the #1 spot... opening day, Fenway, Curt v. Randy... don't get much better than that.

[Loose Cannon]

OMG TINO IS BACK :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1956381

[MoRcHeEbA]

OMG ORDER THE RINGS

[BCWWF]

Yeah thats crazy, I thought the Sports Guy was just being funny when he said that on Page 2, but its a really good decision IMO

[Loose Cannon]

You don't understand :nono:

Tino = Pride of the Yankees

[Loose Cannon]

And my fav Yankee, 2nd behind Donnie baseball :D

*Breaks out old school Martinez jersey.

[BCWWF]

The Yankees are always looked at as if everything may go wrong, but think if everything goes right for them :WHOA:

[MVP]

Looks like I was right about Tino, FUCK.

[The Outlaw]

Bring Chicken back.

[John la Rock]

So is the Johnson deal finalized or what?

[DaveWadding]

So is the Johnson deal finalized or what?
it's on Bud Selig's desk.

[BCWWF]

Contract the Twins while you're at is :shifty: :mad:

[The Miz]

NEW YORK -- Commissioner Bud Selig has approved the proposed trade of Randy Johnson (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4288) to the Yankees, two baseball officials said. The Yankees and Johnson have until Thursday to agree to a contract extension.

[MVP]

I think it's likely to be extended. I was surprised he was offered only $16 mil.

[DaveWadding]

Welcome to the Hall of Fame, Wade Boggs and Ryne Sandberg.

[Loose Cannon]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[VonErich Lives]

Welcome to the Hall of Fame, Wade Boggs and Ryne Sandberg.

Wonder what Hat he'll wear... I know there was talk he wanted to wear TampaBay, but I think the HOF now chooses your hat, after Winfield try getting teams to pay him to wear there hat.

[John la Rock]

good choice for both :y:

[Excellance of Execution]

According to ESPN and Yahoo, the Yank's and Randy Johnson have agreed to a 2 year $32 million dollor extension. YYYEEEEEESSSSSS, It's time for us to reclaim our championship!!!!

[DaveWadding]

Wonder what Hat he'll wear... I know there was talk he wanted to wear TampaBay, but I think the HOF now chooses your hat, after Winfield try getting teams to pay him to wear there hat.
I HEARD Boston. because he was wearing a Sox uni on induction day.

[VonErich Lives]

I HEARD Boston. because he was wearing a Sox uni on induction day.

I know he had a "HOF" hat, and I could have sworn in the pics he had a "HOF" uni, not a sox uni...

Heard him do an interview, it's up to the HOF, Boggs talked how all 3 teams were a big part of his career. He got most his stats w/ the Sox, his rings w/ the Yanks and records w/ Tampa. He had tried to sell the hat rights to Tampa in his contract as a front office person.

I just looked at the HOF site, the pic show him w/ a Sox hat, so that could be a sign.

[DaveWadding]

NEW YORK -- They sat at a long table flanked by photographic montages from their halcyon playing days. Wade Boggs on the right, wearing that familiar cap and uniform of the Boston Red Sox.

That's from the HOF article from mlb.com

[VonErich Lives]

NEW YORK -- They sat at a long table flanked by photographic montages from their halcyon playing days. Wade Boggs on the right, wearing that familiar cap and uniform of the Boston Red Sox.

That's from the HOF article from mlb.com

Well, then it's a lie... cause I know for a fact he wasn't wearing a Sox at at the press confrence, he had on a HOF hat, he even said that in the interview he did which at that point he didn't even know what uni he was going to have on.

The best of his stats were w/ the Sox, so it makes sense that he wears that.

[BCWWF]

Devil Rays :mad:

[VonErich Lives]

HOF announced today it's a Sox uni for boggs.

gonna be real interesting for Clemens.

The front runners would be Sox or Yanks. Clemens had commented if he had anything but a Yanks cap he wouldn't go, but he doesn't have a choice, I mean, he doesn't have to show up for the ceremony, but they can still put him in there.

[DaveWadding]

Carlos Beltran will probably not play in Houston next year.

[Shaggy]

Well due to the fact I live in Houston, out comps starting page is the Houston Chronicle website and in big letters it said...Deadline Over, Beltran says Bye Bye to Houston....hes going to the mets.