DISCUSSION - What is next for Randy Orton?

[Heyman]

DISCUSSION - What is next for Randy Orton?


Where does Orton go from here? Orton is now out of the main-event picture, and has also (clearly) lost his #1 main-event face status to Dave Batista. With this in mind, where does Orton go from here?


-Do you try and keep him face? With the concussion angle that is currently playing out, will it be enough for the fans to feel sorry for him? (and in effect, keep him face?). If he stays face, who does he 'face' at Wrestlemania?

-With the fans quickly turning on Orton, should the WWE just "go with the flow" and turn Orton heel? If Orton turns heel, who should he face at Wrestlemania?..............................if ya smellllllalalallalalalalalallow...............what Heyman...............is cooking. :wtf:



p.s. My vote goes for Randy Orton vs. The Rock.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

Can't argue with that.

He's quickly running out of possible opponents.

[PullMyFinger]

They should just kill off Orton.

[Ferocious]

I'd love to see Orton/Rock but I think Jericho is the best option at the moment, with Orton being turned heel again.

[Loose Cannon]

Sad story right here. Fuck, he could of been huge right now. Should of kept him heel and let HHH/Flair be the faces.

Anyway, he's going heel and probably going to Smackdown soon. If this were to happen, it would let him start fresh and gain back his momemtum. Cause I believe as a heel, he can get it back rather quickly.

[Ferocious]

They should just kill off Orton.
First impressions are important, this wasn't a very good one. I'd recommend coming back in 3-4 months with a new handle and starting again.

[Loose Cannon]

ROFL

[Heyman]

I'd love to see Orton/Rock but I think Jericho is the best option at the moment, with Orton being turned heel again.

That's a pretty cool idea. :cool:


A few weeks from now, perhaps Orton can kinda start moaning about how the fans are turning on him, and how he only lost to Triple H because of his concussion, etc.

:::cue Jericho's music:::


:::cue for Jericho telling Orton to SHUT........THE HELL...........UP!::: :cool:


Benoit can then feud with Edge or Benjamin.

[Heyman]

Sad story right here. Fuck, he could of been huge right now. Should of kept him heel and let HHH/Flair be the faces.

Anyway, he's going heel and probably going to Smackdown soon. If this were to happen, it would let him start fresh and gain back his momemtum. Cause I believe as a heel, he can get it back rather quickly.


Any chance of Orton being traded to Smackdown *BEFORE* Wrestlemania?

Perhaps Bischoff can 'package' Orton off to SD due to concerns over his health (i.e. Bischoff's mindset can be to trade Orton while his value is still high?).

Cena or Guerrero can come back the other way perhaps? Or even Mysterio.

[Ferocious]

I want to see a Benoit Christian feud leading into Mania. I think Edge needs to get a big win in an interpromotional match.

Possibly off of Eddie.

[Heyman]

I want to see a Benoit Christian feud leading into Mania. I think Edge needs to get a big win in an interpromotional match.

Possibly off of Eddie.

Benoit/Christian would be cool as well.

I also wouldn't mind seeing Christian/Cena ( :rofl: @ their backstage confrontation from the Runble).

[Heyman]

Any chance of Orton being traded to Smackdown *BEFORE* Wrestlemania?

Perhaps Bischoff can 'package' Orton off to SD due to concerns over his health (i.e. Bischoff's mindset can be to trade Orton while his value is still high?).

Cena or Guerrero can come back the other way perhaps? Or even Mysterio.


Orton for Guerrero wouldn't be so bad.


-On Smackdown, Orton can eventually kill off Undertaker and Angle and add to his "legend killer" moniker as a heel.

-Orton and Cena's rivlary/feud can be built up on Smackdown as well.

-On RAW, Guerrero can feud with Flair for a bit, and also have a newer set of opponents.

[PullMyFinger]

First impressions are important, this wasn't a very good one. I'd recommend coming back in 3-4 months with a new handle and starting again.
Heyyyyyy....I've been reading this site for a few months....I guess just now I decided to "come out of my shell."

However, Orton as a face is so unbearable...kinda like the Rock during Rocky Maivia.

[Loose Cannon]

I wouldn't rule out an Orton trade or just "sold" to Smackdown before Mania. He's really got no program right now. But...there's a good chance of Austin, Hogan and Brock coming in for Mania. I would put Orton up against one of those guys. Problem is, will Hogan or Austin do the job?

As for Edge, he's about a half a step away for being ready for the World Title scene. I think his win over HBK was great and gave him what he needed, that big win. He's cutting good promos as a heel and comes off like he will die for the Title. I say Batista/Edge right after Mania for the Title.

[Heyman]

I wouldn't rule out an Orton trade or just "sold" to Smackdown before Mania. He's really got no program right now. But...there's a good chance of Austin, Hogan and Brock coming in for Mania. I would put Orton up against one of those guys. Problem is, will Hogan or Austin do the job?

As for Edge, he's about a half a step away for being ready for the World Title scene. I think his win over HBK was great and gave him what he needed, that big win. He's cutting good promos as a heel and comes off like he will die for the Title. I say Batista/Edge right after Mania for the Title.


Hmmmm.....

-Orton vs. Hogan would be cool from a marks' perspective. Hopefully - Hogan would do the JOB.

-Orton/Austin would be good as well, but the mark in me doesn't want to see Austin JOB. :'(

-Orton/Lesnar would be interesting. Who would the fans hate more? :p As far as Lesnar is concerned, I highly doubt that the WWE will bring him in before Wrestlemania. I think this will be his punishment (i.e. no Mania' payoff for Lesnar).


-Orton/Rock would still be my #1 choice however.



p.s. At this rate, I can't see Orton and Edge being on the same show after Mania'. Both men will be (or are) very promising heels, and all they'll do is 'hold each other back' (even more likely if Triple H stays heel after Mania').

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

I say Batista/Edge right after Mania for the Title.

Before or after HHH uses his triple rematch clause?

[PullMyFinger]

That whole Orton concussion garbage is B O R I N G.

[Loose Cannon]

Rock's pretty much 100% being a no go in the WWE for a while. Him and Vince are on bad terms right now.

HHH needs to tear his other quad at Mania.

What about Hogan/Austin though? :naughty: The match would be beyond terrible, but just look at the names. I see $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ written all over it. I kind of want to see that one go down.

[Heyman]

Rock's pretty much 100% being a no go in the WWE for a while. Him and Vince are on bad terms right now.

That sucks. :'( Any chance of that being a 'work'?

HHH needs to tear his other quad at Mania.

Yeah. Either that or turn face. Triple H is soooo old as a heel. At this point, I think most fans would accept a crappy HHH face than a heel HHH. Even with that being said, who knows? Maybe HHH will be better as a face this time.

What about Hogan/Austin though? :naughty: The match would be beyond terrible, but just look at the names. I see $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ written all over it. I kind of want to see that one go down.

That would be sweet. :cool: The match would suck more dick than Jim Ross, but the potential hype for that would be unreal.

My only concern for something like that, is the WWE might spend too much time hyping that. Is it really worth hyping a match between two injured/washed up wrestlers, over the expense of other feuds?

[Heyman]

That whole Orton concussion garbage is B O R I N G.

I honestly have no clue where the WWE are going with this.

A) Are they trying to make the fans more sympathetic towards Orton? (to regain his face pops).

B) Are they going to use the whole "concussion" angle with Orton to make him bitter? (i.e. if he hadn't been 'concussed', he would've beaten HHH and would've been champ, etc.). Basically - he becomes bitter......and this leads to a heel turn.

[PullMyFinger]

I honestly have no clue where the WWE are going with this.

A) Are they trying to make the fans more sympathetic towards Orton? (to regain his face pops).

B) Are they going to use the whole "concussion" angle with Orton to make him bitter? (i.e. if he hadn't been 'concussed', he would've beaten HHH and would've been champ, etc.). Basically - he becomes bitter......and this leads to a heel turn.
If they are looking to make fans sympathetic toward Orton b/c of the concussions, then it's not working. It's only irritating to see him just lay there flat, open and close his eyes repeatedly, and look confused.

I don't see why he'd be bitter due to his own problems. Maybe they'll just have him gone for a few weeks so he'll get some R and R..then come back and be the cocky arrogant heel he used to be. I mean...why would he blame the fans for getting concussions?

Who knows.

[Heyman]

I mean...why would he blame the fans for getting concussions?



My mistake. :$ I should've done a better job in being clear.

What I was trying to say, was that Orton could be bitter at the fact that he lost the title to Triple H because of his concussion. Orton could also be bitter that he's lost his main-event spot to Batista.

Basically - Orton would become a bitter whiner (kinda like Edge). A guy like Jericho or Benoit would then come out, and tell Orton to 'get over it' and be a man. Orton would take it the wrong way, and would do something heelish towards them.......and voila, Orton heel turn.

[Heyman]

What about Hogan/Austin though? :naughty: The match would be beyond terrible, but just look at the names. I see $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ written all over it. I kind of want to see that one go down.



What if Austin/Hogan took on Hussan and Dhiviari in a tag match?


1) It helps establish Hussan/Dhiviari even MORESO as big time heels.

2) Since Hogan and Austin are both limited in what they can do now, a tag match will be easier on their bodies.

3) The fans are CLEARLY on the side of Hogan/Austin. If Hogan fought Austin one on one, it might make one guy get "booed". At this point in time, I personally don't think its right for either Hogan or Austin to get booed......seeing as how they've done so much for this business.




I think it would be cool if Hussan and Dhivari were being assholes one day, and then Bischoff came out.

Bischoff then says that he's absolutely sick and TIRED of Hussan and Dhivari acting like a bunch of racist a-holes. Bischoff then announces that he has a special surprise for both of them next week.

:::week later:::

Bischoff orders Hussan/Dhivari to the ring. Bischoff then says, "gentlemen.......meet your opponents for WRESTLEMANIA!"


::::glass breaks:::::

Austin comes out to an enormous pop, gets in the ring and beats on both men. Austin starts beating the crap out of Hussan.

Dhivari tries to leave the ring, when suddenly, "Real American" hits.


:::out comes Hogan!::::


Hogan comes out and beats on Dhivari.



Austin hits the stunner of Hussan, Hogan hits the leg drop on Dhivari. Afterwards, Hogan and Austin celebrate with beer.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

3 little words to make any heel turn complete...







SCREW THE FANS!!!

[BigDaddyCool]

Hmmmmmmmm, they should put Orton on the backburner for a while because he sucks. Maybe have him switch over to smackdown and start fresh over there. The kid sucks.

[Loose Cannon]

Yea, I was telling someone the other day that a Hassan/Hogan match would be great. But I do like your tag match better. Only problem is Daivari as the partner of Hassan. Even though Daivari is a pretty dam good worker, he's not percieved that way in the fans eyes or those who have never seen him work for that matter. I hate how they have Daivari come off as a little "pip-squeak" sort of guy when in reality he's bad ass. Like how they have him jump on guys backs and stuff. It's ridiculous.

[MVP]

I've said it a couple times before, Orton ought to go to SD after Mania and immediately turn heel on a fresh start Booker T_style. Orton can score some big wins over Taker, Angle, JBL, and Show--then face Cena for the WWE Title in the match that's been brewing since the end of 2003, with Orton going over and having a real title run.

[Shadow]

I'd actually put Orton on Smackdown for awhile to tell you the truth. Right now he's really being held down by HHH and needs to get a gimmick overhaul. Go back to being the Legend Killer but start killing off the Heel Legends. Cause killing Face Legends just makes you one sided. Also...it can get the fans back on your side really quick.

Then again...screwing us fans is a WWE time-honored tradition.

[Innovator]

Turning HHH won't do anything Heyman, he'll still do the 20 minute promos on continue to drain the life out of RAW.

[Splaya]

I wouldn't rule out an Orton trade or just "sold" to Smackdown before Mania. He's really got no program right now. But...there's a good chance of Austin, Hogan and Brock coming in for Mania. I would put Orton up against one of those guys. Problem is, will Hogan or Austin do the job?

As for Edge, he's about a half a step away for being ready for the World Title scene. I think his win over HBK was great and gave him what he needed, that big win. He's cutting good promos as a heel and comes off like he will die for the Title. I say Batista/Edge right after Mania for the Title.

I'll tell ya. When Edge interrupted Christy on Raw and his music hit, it gave me goosebumps.

[Heyman]

I've said it a couple times before, Orton ought to go to SD after Mania and immediately turn heel on a fresh start Booker T_style. Orton can score some big wins over Taker, Angle, JBL, and Show--then face Cena for the WWE Title in the match that's been brewing since the end of 2003, with Orton going over and having a real title run.


I completely agree with this.

The thing is, who do you send to RAW in exchange for Orton?

My vote goes for Guerrero.

I think a potential Cena/Orton feud would be more than enough to compensate the loss of Guerrero. Keep in mind, that Lesnar could always come back as well.

[John la Rock]

ya Guerrero would be great on Raw dido for Cena

[Heyman]

ya Guerrero would be great on Raw dido for Cena

An Orton for Cena swap would be sweet as well. :cool:

With the Royal Rumble was of any indication, then a Cena/Batista feud could be something worthwhile as well (sometime in the future).

[PerfectOne]

Ok, I'm taking the Hassan tag match idea and putting a twist into it:

WM: Hassan and Orton vs. Hogan and Austin

Basically, Austin (or Hogan) wants to teach Hassan a lesson at some point pre-WM. They could even go as far as having a "match" at their February PPV (or not). Orton wants in on beating the Arabs (because it's cool to hate people of different ethnicities right now :( ). So Orton and Austin tag up against Hassan and Dhavari (sp?).

Anyway, to make a long story short, Orton turns on Austin in the match. Beats the crap out of him. Starts talking about how his life is a lot like Hassan's - he's treated like a second class citizen. People look at him, and since he's Bob Orton's son, they assume things about him. Typically whiny heel stuff.

This would basically make Orton the BIGGEST heel of WWE. Recall that Vince loves going on these "ethnic group/stable = evil" kicks, and the white guy that turns his back on the "WWE" (meaning caucasians) always becomes SUPER Evil. Like Owen Hart as the "Black Heart," or "Nugget" in the Nation of Domination.

Anyway, he'd be uber heel on turning his back on "America." Hell, he could even make quips about being dishonorably discharged - as in, "What has America done for me."

Regardless, Austin wants blood - a match against Orton at WM. They do a typical contract signing in the ring for hype (just so Austin can Stunner everyone during the signing). During the signing, Austin goes to stunner Orton (as expected - there would be big marks at this), but Orton pushes him off. In rushes Hassan from the back. They start to beat the snot out of Austin - who of course doesn't go down without a huge fight destroying everything in the ring. Austin gets the upper hand in the brief interlude (as usual - he could probably even stunner Hassan), but Orton clocks him with something or another.

Then we get a "Hold on Brotha!" from the back and Hogan walks out, gives some "I love America" speech, and rushes down to the ring. Orton/Hassan make an exit, and it's Hogan and Austin vs. Orton and Hassan at WM.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you make Randy Orton the HUGEST heel in the WWE.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I would personally have Orton try to hunt the legend of The Undertaker on SmackDown!. I hope they've killed the Heidenreich character off for the time being, and we could see Kane vs. Gene Snitsky with Matt Hardy as the Special Guest Referee at Mania (with Snitsky hopefully going over).

But unlike most people, I'd have The Undertaker go over Orton with a simple Chokeslam.

Orton is over as a face, but not "mega-over", and that is what's hurting him at the moment, because the WWE are trying to portray him as the face that can get it done, but is held done by other problems. If Austin or The Rock did this, we would care, for Orton we do not.

Anyway, him losing to The Undertaker does something that I wish the WWE would just come out and openly show us. Orton is good, he's even great (as Ric Flair said), but he's not "it". They're still building up Orton as the second coming of Austin, but he's not. I'd have him lose, then start the decent to nothingness.

Wouldn't this hurt Orton? I wouldn't think so. It lets Orton find his placing on the roster, and lets him rebuild himself. I'd hopefully try and get The Undertaker to have a rematch with Orton at WrestleMania 22 where Orton goes over, countering the Chokeslam with an RKO.

This basically stops the "It's Orton's destiny!" thing they've got going, and makes us think Orton is a failure (which a lot of people have already come to), and really gives him a chance to try and fight for his place in the halls of greatness.

I would be much more interested in Orton if he ends up challenging for the US Title trying to regain himself, rather than see the WWE find excuses for him to keep going after the World Championship. Randy will get there eventually, but a fresh start is needed, IMO.

[Impact!]

um yeah orton has got boring

(runs away as he has no more things to say)

[Gerard]

Why orton sucks as a face? He has the look of a Cocky little snot nosed shit who's best friend is the mirror.

Why he's good as a heel? See reasons above

[Thriller]

I think a cool idea for Orton would be to have some type of Dr Jekell/mr hyde pereonality.for examble have him talking to stacy then black out and when he comes to he RKO stacy and doesnt realize it later on. i know its not the greatest idea but probabally better than wher the wwe is going with it

or just bring back the RNN :lol:

[SuperSlim]

Orton as face? http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/cwm/3dlil/sleep.gif

Orton as a heel? more lively :)

Basically when you look at that skinny freak known as Orton you don't think Face that has the fans cheerin him on. What you see is the potential to be the cockiest heel since HollyWood Rock. Not at the level of the cockiest champion ever in Jericho. :D I miss those days. :'(

Anyway. I'ts time for a Randy makeover. And this whole concussion thing is really the dumbest thing I've ever seen. I mean just cause it kinda worked for Michaels all those years ago does not mean that it will work again. And for this guy it will not work. He's becoming more duller than the heel champion... 10 time champion HHH. Well not that stale but he is quickly gettin there. Whenyou put those two together you have http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/drooling1.gif
.

The thing is send him off of Raw and send him to Smackdown. Send a real guy over there. A real good trade. Then Orton can really become someone again. but not in the form of Booker T. He has to do somethin different. He has to walk in there, and find somebody right off the bat, not Cena though. Maybe Taker, Angle, JBL? Give him a real feud. Let him get schooled maybe a time or two and let him come off totally arrogant, cocky, talkin bout it was a fluke, they really stood no chance. Somethin like that.

anyway Orton has all sorts of potential but it isn't as a face but as a heel and it isn't on Raw but on SmackDown!

[HardyBoyz612]

I'd love to see Orton get a fresh start. The best way IMO, would be to turn on Stacy. She's got to be one of the most over (and beautiful) divas, so Orton turning on her would be choice heel stuff.

Much like when Matt Hardy turned on Lita, except Orton's career wouldn't go straight to hell after the turn, like Matt's did. You could even get a group of RAW faces together to try and punish Orton for hurting Stacy, giving him a certifiable reason to jump to Smackdown.

He could then start his whole Legend Killer thing, saying he didn't deserve his treatment on RAW, which is why he jumped to SD, until *insert legend here* comes out and kicks his ass.

On a side note, an Orton/Cena feud would be great. But since everybody wants to see a title unification match between the two, Orton would have to jump back to RAW, and win the title. Then they'd need a reason for a title unification. Something like the story line from the Smackdown vs RAW career mode would work. A main star isn't happy and starts conspiring with the current GM of either show to jump. I personally think the curent champ at the time jumping would be great tv, setting up a reason for the title unification.

[Astley316]

it could have all been much simpler, after summerslam, when benoit held out his hand, another RKO, keeping Orton heel, the next night, he and triple h have a moment, and Orton gives triple h a world title shot, with the whole of evolution turning on trips,

but bygones

There are probably gonna be no trades before wrestlemania, so i say an interpromotioal match between taker and orton, with orton going clean over, he can then walk on to smackdown and be heel similar to the way booker t did, when he switched

[BigDaddyCool]

I have an idea, some one could run him over with a bus.

[Gerard]

I have an idea, some one could run him over with a bus.


Well thats one way of getting over...run over no less. :wtf:

[Nowhere Man]

This time last year I was saying that Orton would be another one of WWE's countless failed attempts at a quick-fix main eventer. And lo and behold, it came to pass. His gimmick got stale, his face turn flopped, and he can't seem to save his own hide while Batista has eclipsed him and Jericho and Benoit are still the uncrowned top faces of Raw.

But, since I can try to see the good in workers, what can be done to save Orton from going down in flames?

First of all, don't try to thrust him back into the main event scene right away. The fans got really tired of having him shoved down their throats so much the first time around. Have him enter a long program for the Intercontinental Title against, say, Christian or Jericho (depending on whether he should stay face or turn heel), someone with whom he can pull off a series of really good matches, and slowly elevate him back up (not to mention elevate his opponent and the prestige of the I-C Title).

Second off, don't just revert him back to the 'Legend Killer,' because there's barely anything left to be done with it. Most of the big-name legends aren't going to come back to WWE any time soon, and certainly not in any capacity to wrestle. Hogan's too damn old, Austin's got a bad neck, Rocky's going to Hollywood for good, HBK and Flair have already been done, etc. The only feasible one is the Undertaker, and I seriously doubt you could get Taker to lay down for Orton. Not to mention the only heat it generates is cheap heat, and short-term heat at that. Hell, he and Mick Foley put on one of the most brutal hardcore matches in a long time, and the heat he got from it barely lasted through the Shelton Benjamin feud. If Orton is going to be back on top, he's got to be able to generate his own heat, not get it by beating up old guys.

But most of all, turn him heel again. I thought the heel Orton was the most bland and unremarkable gimmick I had ever seen, until I saw face Orton. Randy is the kind of guy people want to boo (or develop a cult following to) because he looks and acts like a pretentious dick, not because he acts like a poor man's Stone Cold/Rock. Jericho would be the perfect foil for Orton, not only because he is insanely over no matter how badly he's booked, but also because he can cover Orton's deficiencies in the ring and on the mic, and both guys can really get the crowd going. I doubt the feud would be for the World Title, but it would be a hot feud that would sell tickets, IMO.

[Splaya]

Yeah I need him to go heel so I can get some more ideas for REvolution :shifty:

[Londoner]

Hmm i havent read the second page yet but heyman no offence, but im kinda tired of the logic that as soon as someone gets boring they should go to smackdown.Thats degrading SD!, your saying basically that you should take away someone whos over on smackdown(e.g. cena or Eddie) and put him on Raw and then replace him with someone who isnt over. So by that logic, smackdown gets the boring wrestlers, while Raw gets the stars.

And then we would complain that Smackdown sucks even more.

[Heyman]

Hmm i havent read the second page yet but heyman no offence, but im kinda tired of the logic that as soon as someone gets boring they should go to smackdown.Thats degrading SD!, your saying basically that you should take away someone whos over on smackdown(e.g. cena or Eddie) and put him on Raw and then replace him with someone who isnt over. So by that logic, smackdown gets the boring wrestlers, while Raw gets the stars.

And then we would complain that Smackdown sucks even more.

I see what you're saying and to some degree, I guess that's true. I do tend to follow RAW a lot more, and so I'm a little biased as result.

Nonetheless - I do think a HEEL Randy Orton would be enough to compensate the loss of a FACE Eddie Guerrero......especially when you consider the potential of an Orton/Cena feud.


As far as the WWE is concerned, it seems like they themselves are a company who sends "boring" or "buried" wrestlers to SD, while sending the promising ones to RAW.


Last year for instance - we see Matt Hardy, Chris Benoit, Edge, Benjamin, etc. all get sent to RAW......all of which have (or had) tremendous upside.

Among the ones going to SD, were RVD, Booker T, and the Dudleys.......all of which who have been buried to death, or are stale as hell.



Nevermind what I feel, it seems like the WWE themselves are far more biased towards RAW......their flagship station.


With that in mind, I don't think its too farfetched to assume that the WWE would send Orton (a currently stale character) to Smackdown, for a guy like Cena or Guerrero.

[Heyman]

He could then start his whole Legend Killer thing, saying he didn't deserve his treatment on RAW, which is why he jumped to SD, until *insert legend here* comes out and kicks his ass.



How ironic would it be if Austin took offense to Orton's treatment of Kiebler? ;). If anything, Austin would help Orton out. :p


Anyways - a couple things:


A) If Randy Orton (a supposed face) started feuding with Christian (a supposed heel) leading up to Wrestlemania, do you think there's a chance that the WWE can effectively pull off a "double switch"? (a la Bret Hart/Steve Austin WM-13). I know there's a snowball's chance of that happening, but I think it would be pretty cool. I still believe that Christian could be pretty 'big' as a face.

If the feud stretched beyond WM, then Christian could get pretty good face reactions against a now hated Orton. As a face, Christian could also feud with brother Edge.




B) Randy Orton vs. Hulk Hogan is a strong possibility.
Looks like Hulk Hogan might be signing for Wrestlemania 21 (Source - Rajah.com). You have to believe that Orton vs. Hogan *WILL* happen if Hogan is signed. Orton is directionless right now, and the fans are quickly turning on him. Hogan is the biggest legend in wrestling history. Orton is the self-proclaimed legend killer.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I agree with ThugLife, I wouldn't like to see Randy Orton jump over to SmackDown! until AFTER WrestleMania at the earliest. That's only if they are doing a draft. I'm starting to lean more towards a ten to RAW, ten to SmackDown! draft thing, and then just have the cruiserweights from RAW sent over to SmackDown! by default since they qualify for the division (so they don't take up four of the ten slots).

Anyway, Nowhere Man brought up another point I agree with. Although I'd like tos ee Orton vs. Jericho and Orton vs. Christian, I think those feud should happen when Orton is in better shape. Jericho and Christian have found themselves, and Orton hasn't, that's where this feud would go wrong, IMO. I believe Randy should have an opponent that is also "directionless" at this time. I personally believe Shelton Benjamin could be this man.

Randy Orton can have one of his moments with Stacy, then when he's walking down a corridor backstage with Stacy in tow, he stops and turns to see Shelton Benajmin leaning against a table chuckling. Randy then aks him what's so funny, and Benjamin responds with some harsh words about how Orton's splitting hairs to try and stay in the mian event and remain a fan favourite. He's got Stacy Keibler for the cheap pops, he's got his "concussion" as an excuse as to why he keeps getting made Triple H's bitch. Randy Orton then starts to get pissed off, but in a way which shows that there is A LOT of truth to what Benjamin is saying.

Shelton then shows Orton his IC belt, and says that was the greatest seven months of Orton's life. He had stability, direction, and people that could help him win matches when his genetically passed talents couldn't get it done for him.

During this Benjamin maintains a taunting tone, but that changes when Orton tells Benjamin he was the World Heavyweight Champion and doesn't have to listen to this crap. Benjamin snaps and starts yelling at Orton that he's beat Triple H three times, even when you were in his corner. He mentions he beat a former three-time World Champion for his IC Title. Orton stole a lot of his title wins, and yet Benjamin is winning cleanly left right and center. He's well on his way to shattering Orton's seven-month reign and he's getting absolutely no publicity for it, because Orton has a "concussion" and is pretending he cares about Stacy Keibler.

Orton then goes to walk on for his match against Triple H & Batista with Shawn Michaels or just a singles match against Edge by saying "I'm above this." and Benjamin then yells down the corridor "Prove it!". Orton freezes then asks Benjamin to repeat that. Benjamin then says if Orton is truly above the IC Title, and truly at World Championship-level, he should have no problem beating Benjamin. Orton then walks off and we have a feud in the making.

If you have Orton in that tag team match with Shawn Michaels, you can have Benjamin and Angle run down, playing up the current feuds in the match, and Benjamin and Angle's background together. If it's the singles match against Edge, you make it the "Best of 3" Match between the two, and have Benjamin cost Orton the match (even if it is just by standing at the top of the rampway), and this allows Edge to get a big win over a former World Champion, and it puts him above Orton. Benjamin can then say if Orton thinks he's above Benjamin, Shelton will bring him back down into his league.

This feud could potentially rival Stone Cold/The Rock, and with neither guy having anything planned for WrestleMania, it will be a great match, with great mic work, and great build-up. Most of all it would be unpredictable.

With both guys fan favourites, and both guys dipping down into heelism occasionally, it gives the fans the chance to make a decision. They get to choose who is the face, and who is the heel coming out of the match. The winner would also be a surprise as well. Orton can start to build-up a WrestleMania streak, and become a two-time IC Champion, and give him a character and potentially start-up a Benjamin's out for revenge storyline, or you can have Benjamin win the match, have Orton 1-1 at WrestleMania, and 0-1 in singles matches, and have Orton stay around mid-card level for a while, trying to make sure his IC Title-reign isn't beaten by Benjamin.

Both open up storylines, and both guys could pull off a fast-paced match with a lot of tension as to who hits their "out-of-nowhere" finisher first. And I haven't even begun to mention how much of a role Stacy Keibler could play in this feud.

[Heyman]

That Benjamin/Orton scenerio you created was very good. :cool: Well done!

I especially liked the part where you had Benjamin talking about Orton using Stacy as 'eye candy' to get his popularity back (the funny part of that, is that its more of a stab at the creative team on RAW than it is on Orton :D).

Nonetheless - nice thinking. :y:


If tonight's House Show was of any indication however, it looks as if *EDGE* will be Benjamin's opponent for Wrestlemania.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Thanks, I really appreicate the kind words.

I don't mind the idea of Benjamin vs. Edge at all. Who knows, maybe they could reveal Benjamin is the one that attacked Edge in the back at No Way Out 2003, putting him on the shelf. :shifty:

Edge and Benjamin will no doubt have a good match, but this leaves Orton with absolutely no one. Unless they set something up with Rhyno, or someone. :-\

[Heyman]

I don't mind the idea of Benjamin vs. Edge at all. Who knows, maybe they could reveal Benjamin is the one that attacked Edge in the back at No Way Out 2003, putting him on the shelf. :shifty:

Problem with that scenerio is...

a) It's a bit too old for them to bring that up

b) If that were to happen, it would be awkward since Edge is a heel right now (while Benjamin is a face).

Edge and Benjamin will no doubt have a good match, but this leaves Orton with absolutely no one. Unless they set something up with Rhyno, or someone. :-\

As far as I know, Hulk Hogan may be signing with the WWE for Wrestlemania 21 (credit Rajah.com). Hogan vs. Orton would be the ultimate LEGEND vs. Legend Killer match. :cool:



p.s. If not Hogan (or any other legends), then I wouldn't mind seeing the WWE go with Orton vs. CHRISTIAN. Maybe they can attempt to do a 'double turn' (a la Austin/Bret WM-13).

[Fox]

How about this?

Randy Orton wins the World Title a few weeks before WrestleMania, and Bischoff turns the main event into a triple threat match: Orton vs. HHH vs. Batista.

WrestleMania night. Main event comes. Batista comes out. HHH comes out. Orton comes out. The bell rings. They stand man-to-man-to-man, glaring at one another. They yell at each other. The tension is building. The crowd is on their feet for what may be the match of the night. Suddenly, Batista and Orton try to punch HHH at the same time, and he blocks both of them. He pokes them in their respective chests with his index fingers and BOOM! On the ground! HHH covers them both - 1,2,3! IT WAS A SCREWJOB!

TRIPLE H REGAINS THE TITLE! EVOLUTION IS BACK! BAH GAWD!!!

[HardyBoyz612]

^ Wow, if I paid 50 bucks to watch WM on PPV (or even more to watch it live!) and that was my main event, there'd be as big a riot as when the Raiders lost the last superbowl they were in (I don't really follow football). Sad thing is, I wouldn't put it past WWE.

Besides in my mind, Evolution is about as stale as Triple H and Orton are. But I guess that's just all factions. I sort of found myself liking JBL's cabinet, but again it got stale. To really keep a faction going, you need faction feuds, i.e. Corporation vs DX, Ministry vs Corporation, nWo vs everyone else. WWE can't even keep a decent tag division going, no way they could pull off a faction feud.

What would be somewhat interesting, is if Batista didn't turn face and did go to Smackdown and then started a Smackdown division of Evolution. Almost like the many different nWo divisons. Then the Cabinet would have someone to feud with and wouldn't be so stale (Team Angle isn't big enough to pull off a feud with JBL's Cabinet)

Who knows, Orton could end up joining the Cabinet or Team Angle. Anyways some more of my 2 cents.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Problem with that scenerio is...

a) It's a bit too old for them to bring that up

b) If that were to happen, it would be awkward since Edge is a heel right now (while Benjamin is a face).



As far as I know, Hulk Hogan may be signing with the WWE for Wrestlemania 21 (credit Rajah.com). Hogan vs. Orton would be the ultimate LEGEND vs. Legend Killer match. :cool:



p.s. If not Hogan (or any other legends), then I wouldn't mind seeing the WWE go with Orton vs. CHRISTIAN. Maybe they can attempt to do a 'double turn' (a la Austin/Bret WM-13).

I wasn't being too serious about the attacking angle, majorly because of the second reason you mentioned.

Orton vs. Hogan might be alright as far as crowd reaction goes, but I think the crowd would be too much on Hogan's side leading into/during the match. And I standby my opinion that Christian and Orton could reall have a great main event feud one day, and right now it would probbably fall to shambles (although I can easily see it working, as well). I see Christian involved in a tag team match at WrestleMania, though.

[Mr. Nerfect]

How about this?

Randy Orton wins the World Title a few weeks before WrestleMania, and Bischoff turns the main event into a triple threat match: Orton vs. HHH vs. Batista.

WrestleMania night. Main event comes. Batista comes out. HHH comes out. Orton comes out. The bell rings. They stand man-to-man-to-man, glaring at one another. They yell at each other. The tension is building. The crowd is on their feet for what may be the match of the night. Suddenly, Batista and Orton try to punch HHH at the same time, and he blocks both of them. He pokes them in their respective chests with his index fingers and BOOM! On the ground! HHH covers them both - 1,2,3! IT WAS A SCREWJOB!

TRIPLE H REGAINS THE TITLE! EVOLUTION IS BACK! BAH GAWD!!!

That would make me mark out.

Seriously.

Have them really build-up a squash match at WrestleMania. No one goes into WrestleMania expecting a screwjob like that, simply because they convince themselves it won't happenBuild Batista up as a complete monster, and I guarentee when only a few minutes of Mania are left, the fans will be expecting a squash.

Actually I'd rather see them set aside 30 minutes or so for the main event, then follow through with the Evolution reunion. The only thing that bugs me about this, is why Batista wouldn't go over to SmackDown! and challenge for the WWE Championship if he was still a member of Evolution.

I guess they can run the "both guys aren't ready" storyline, and have Batista & Orton feud with Jericho & Benoit for the World Tag Team Championship.

[addy2hotty]

It's interesting to read your views on Randy Orton, and about how to rescue him from a wrestling POV. Problem is, the WWE obviously don't view it like that. They think that nowadays if you shove someone down your throat long enough, then he'll eventually get popular.

Look at the facts, Orton is reasonably popular as a face - not Jericho level, probably not even Hardy/Dudley Boy popular and certainly not anywhere near Rock/Austin & nor will he ever be. They have tried to mould him into the new Rock (eyebrow/catchphrase's at the end of promo's/posing on the ropes) but have failed dismally, while the crowd have stayed with their normal favourites - Jericho/Benoit and grown to like people like Batista and Eugene with no effort at all.

What they need to do with Orton is make people care about him. They are trying to do this with the concussion angle but again it's failing. I think a beat down of massive proportions at the hands of Evolution is a possibility. Something along the lines of smashing an ambulance with a lorry - that sort of thing. Book his match with 'whoever' at WM, then bring him back the week before as his opponent is saying it'll be a walk-over etc.

Secondly, keep him off the mic. I'm sick of his face promos. They, as others have said, smack of arrogance (not just fake arrogance either, people genuinely believe he's like he is, perhaps because the rumours are that he is) and stop his geeky smiling at the crowd. How many times did the Rock smile for the fans? Same with Austin.

Truth is, he hasn't got his 'face gimmick'. He's just there. Mr Wonderful. Austin was the Rattlesnake, Rock - Brahma Bull. Guerrero - lie, cheat steal/latino heat. Benoit - Rabid Wolverine. His 'legend killer' thing doesn't fit anymore as a face. It can be changed, just like Lesnar's 'next big thing' one.

Face's have to be believable. Orton, in my eyes, doesn't look, act or talk like one. It's the same with someone like Christian/Angle or HHH. They CAN'T be faces. They are more popular as the heel everyone loves to hate - which is how Rock, Austin & Michaels got to where they were.

[The CyNick]

It boggles my mind that they aren't going to bring in Rock. He would have been the perfect guy to face Orton.

The thing about putting Hogan on the show, is that he will likely overshadow everyone else on the card. Batista and Cena are over, but they will look like chumps compred to the pop Hogan would get. The perception would be that Hogan is the biggest star and Cena and Batista are secondary players, even if they win the major titles. I thinkt hey would be better off just having Hogan show up for the HOF and not wrestle.

I would have done the Taker-Orotn thing, just so Orton could take Taker's Mania win streak.

The way things are shaking down it looks like Orton is screwed. The only guy I can see him working with is Edge.

I would send Orotn to SD after Mania. I would keep him face at first, and have him allign with Cena. Then do like the Mega Powers and have Orton turn heel. Then have Orton take the title from Cena around SurSer time, and then build back Cena to get the title back at Mania, assuming Cena is still over of course.

Bottom line, is Orton NEEDS to be a heel.

[Mr. Nerfect]

On the topic of Hogan, does anyone think that his theme song, Real American, supports Muhammad Hassan? The lyrics of the song really help me get behind Muhammad (who I think would work excellently as a face).

Now to bring Stone Cold Steve Austin into this. He's likely going to be at WrestleMania, so they may as well use him in a storyline.

Next week, why not have Triple H not show up to RAW due to sushi poisoning or something cheap like that (to avoid facing Edge), so Batista and Flair come out to talk for Triple H, and explain his absense. Out comes Austin to a presumingly loud reaction from Tokyo. Austin gets in the ring and starts ripping into Batista, asking if he thinks he looks cool in his stupid little glasses. He could go on baout how Batista thinks he kicks ass, uh-uh, Batista kisses ass, namely Triple H's.

Austin and Batista then have a confrontation with Austin telling Batista he's better than what he's pretending to be. Batista then gets that sly smile when Austin tells Dave to hit him. Flair is screaming about how Batista could snap Austin's neck in a second. Batista then leaves the ring and walks back up the apron leaving Austin alone in the ring. So Batista comes off as being confident and as a guy probably able to kick Austin's ass, but above just mindless ass-kicking.

What does this have to do with Orton? Nothing really. I guess they could have Orton attack Austin from behind after coming through the crowd. It just goes to show how much more of a good position Dave Batista is in than Randy Orton.

I can easily see Orton playing a "Not as good as Dave Batista" character, with clips of him losing to Dave being played on RAW, and Orton kicking Austin's ass after Batista showed he was above it. Just little things that can blow-up to Orton yelling at Dave saying he stole his destiny or something.

[Mister Sinister]

I wouldn't mind seeing, Orton take on Edge at Wrestlemania (All this is if they do plan on keeping him as a Face)

The way I figure it, is this, While they are in the process of making it seem like Batista might go to Smackdown, Bischoff should say, Orton get's another chance at the title, once his head get's better, which will be Set, for say, The Raw after No Way Out....This of course, will piss Edge off, because Orton keeps getting chance after chance to go after the World Heavyweight Title, while he get's nothing and gives the whole thing about how it's his time, and what not.

So then, Either Edge takes out Orton before his match with Trips, or maybe hits a Edgeacution or the Edgeamatic on a chair on Orton, to farther damage his head, and cost him the match for the Title, setting up a Match between the two at Wrestlemania, possibly, for the spot to face the winner of Batista/Triple H at Backlash....

I wouldn't mind seeing it, since Edge and Orton put on a few good matches last year, espically the match, in my mind, that I throught was the Match of the Year in the IC Title Rematch on Raw back in May

[Taker Fan]

I can see Orton interfering in the HHH/Edge match in Tokyo, and Orton hitting an RKO on HHH, and then Edge spearing him out of the ring telling him to stop ruining his opportunity and trying to get him DQ'd. HHH hits a low-blow, and then pedigrees Edge for the win. Then Edge takes his frustrations out on Orton for distracting him and getting involved in his title match, which will lead to Orton vs. Edge at WM

[Nowhere Man]

What is with all the talk about Austin? He's never going to wrestle again. We might as well start fantasy booking scenarios where Dynamite Kid leaps out of his wheelchair and main events Wrestlemania, or have Andre the Giant return from the dead just to put Orton over. All those are about as likely as a guy with a permanently injued neck coming back and jobbing himself out.

Oh, and I highly doubt Hulk Hogan is going to have anything to do with Orton. If anything, he'll do a one-shot appearance at the Hall of Fame ceremony at Wrestlemania, then disappear for another year or so.

[John la Rock]

THEY NEED TO GET ROCK IN FOR MANIA.

The Rock vs Randy Orton = $$$

[Nowhere Man]

Rock's not wrestling anymore, either. He's going to be doing movies for a long time.

Which is exactly why they need to forget about all that "Legend Killer" shit and focus on making Randy Orton generate his own heat, instead of leeching off of old wrestlers' name recognition. The whole gimmick was about as long-term as Goldberg's winning streak anyways.

[Mr. Nerfect]

What is with all the talk about Austin? He's never going to wrestle again.

He's on good terms with the WWE again.

I don't know about you, but Austin staring down Batista, knowing very well he can't wrestle the big man without getting his neck broken, and Batista walking off when he knows very well he could kick Austin's ass, would be extremely entertaining for me. In a way it would unofficially pass the torch from Austin to Batista.

[Nowhere Man]

Being on good terms with the company doesn't mean he's going to step into the ring again. And if anything, showing up and facing off with a current wrestler, just to walk away and do nothing, would only piss off the crowd instead of make the current guy look better. It'd be like in 2003, where Jericho and Christian were constantly trying to get rid of Austin, but Austin never took it to them (except occasionally coming out and giving them Stunners) A feud with a non-wrestler guarantees that there is no payoff match, and therefore a major waste of time.

[corey99999]

TNA

[Mr. Nerfect]

Being on good terms with the company doesn't mean he's going to step into the ring again. And if anything, showing up and facing off with a current wrestler, just to walk away and do nothing, would only piss off the crowd instead of make the current guy look better. It'd be like in 2003, where Jericho and Christian were constantly trying to get rid of Austin, but Austin never took it to them (except occasionally coming out and giving them Stunners) A feud with a non-wrestler guarantees that there is no payoff match, and therefore a major waste of time.

But that's the thing. With no pay off match it always leaves that question at the back of your head. Could Austin in his prime beat Batista in his prime? We will never know, which is why it would be great to see these guys have a confrontation with each guy playing their character to perfection.

Well that's just my opinion, anyway.

[Nowhere Man]

Yeah, it's a fun question to ask, but since there's no way to answer that question, the thing won't sell.

And in the end, that's what the wrestling business is all about. It isn't about making people 'mark out' for whatever reason, it isn't about making Person A look better than Person B. It's about making money, selling tickets, merchandise, and PPVs. Every episode of Raw and Smackdown is geared towards making you want to pay more money to see the PPV, which is where you get the eventual payoff. Therefore, a feud with no payoff at all doesn't make any sense, be it from a wrestling or financial standpoint.

Granted, I think Batista has a very promising future in WWE, and if Austin was in a position to 'pass the torch,' I'd be more than up for it. But he's not. And as we saw in 2003, an Austin who comes out and eats up valuable TV time without being able to start wrestling again is worse than no Austin at all.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, it's a fun question to ask, but since there's no way to answer that question, the thing won't sell.

And in the end, that's what the wrestling business is all about. It isn't about making people 'mark out' for whatever reason, it isn't about making Person A look better than Person B. It's about making money, selling tickets, merchandise, and PPVs. Every episode of Raw and Smackdown is geared towards making you want to pay more money to see the PPV, which is where you get the eventual payoff. Therefore, a feud with no payoff at all doesn't make any sense, be it from a wrestling or financial standpoint.

Granted, I think Batista has a very promising future in WWE, and if Austin was in a position to 'pass the torch,' I'd be more than up for it. But he's not. And as we saw in 2003, an Austin who comes out and eats up valuable TV time without being able to start wrestling again is worse than no Austin at all.

I agree with everything you said there. But you can have it sort of pay off, with Austin promising that if Batista doesn't kick Triple H's ass at WrestleMania, Austin will go into that ring and kick Batista's ass whether or not it means Austin will be paralyzed for the rest of his life.

There is no way Stone Cold can step into the ring, but I do think he can make money, even if it is just planting the seeds for a feud. The thing about Austin is that casual fans may buy PPVs just because Austin is on them.

Granted, with no payoff there won't be a massive wave of fans, but having Stone Cold staredown Batista, with every mark anticipating Austin vs. Batista, and with smarks enjoying the storyline, even if it only goes for a few weeks, I think it might be a success. The worst that can happen is that Austin sells a few shirts (Well as long as they keep him away from the other talent on-screen).

[M. Banana]

Give it about three months... he will disappear, return on Velocity, and stay there, for the rest of his mid-card hell career.