RED SOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Part 3

[VonErich Lives]

I thought Renteria was fine playing 3rd? Hopefully he said 2nd and I just heard it wrong though. That would work out a lot better

I'm pretty sure he said 2nd, and I'd rather have him there, better range is needed at 2B.

So far no deal, still plenty of "rumors".

Although, Ortiz seems pissed off, not sure how well this will go over with him.

[VonErich Lives]

So, Manny didn't play tonight, the Sox said there is no trade yet.

Francona said after talking wiht Manny it was in the Red Sox best intrest he didn't play tonight and the Sox will address the situation after the game.

Well, I'll be waiting for the postgame tonight...

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

2nd base def makes more sense - They have options at 3rd, Youk (future) or Mueller (present..maybe another 2 seasons? or they can let him walk) whereas 2nd base is kind of up in the air. Renteria is starting to pick up his defense at shortstop though, which is nice to see. Too bad Millar is busy dropping his throws from the hole to 1st :|

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/baseball/mlb/img8693357.jpg

Game winning hit tonight

But he isnt clutch

[VonErich Lives]

http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/baseball/mlb/img8693357.jpg

Game winning hit tonight

But he isnt clutch

Your a funny man...

Go look at some stats, do a little research and come back when you know what you're talking about.

No one said he can't hit, but his numbers with the game on the line are not what you seem to think they are.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I cant find any 2 out RBI stats, or runners in scoring position stats. To me, that's clutch hitting though. I am pretty sure hes doing pretty well in those situations. So he doesn't deliever in the 9th inning everytime..so that means hes anti clutch or something? BTW Leading the AL in HR and RBI as of right now too.

I just found a list of strike out leaders though, pretty funny how the Miz (atleast I think it was him, I maybe wrong) compared Manny to Adam Dunn. Manny has 80 Ks, 25th in the league. Pretty close to people with stats similar to his (Ortiz, A-Rod) While Dunn is at 112.

[The Miz]

So because Dunn K's more that means they aren't similar hitters? Look at the rest of the stats.

(Dunn has played 7 more games so his stats may be slightly higher)

R: 75 (AD), 68 (MR)
2B: 23 (AD), 19 (MR)
TB: 208 (AD), 202 (MR)
HR: 31 (AD), 28 (MR)

All about the same. Manny has more RBI's, but he plays for the AL East leaders and Dunn plays for the cellar of the NL Central. The stats are very similar except for one thing and that is OPS. Dunn might K all the time but he walks a hell of a lot. Manny does not. His OPS is over 40 points higher than Manny's. They are very similar hitters

[The Miz]

Your a funny man...

Go look at some stats, do a little research and come back when you know what you're talking about.

No one said he can't hit, but his numbers with the game on the line are not what you seem to think they are.
RISP: 38-108 (.352), 14 HR, 73 RBI, 7 doubles
Bases Loaded: 6-19 (.316), 3 HR, 22 RBI
Runners on 1st and 2nd: 16-29 (.552), 4 HR, 23 RBI
Late Innings of Close Games: 11-31 (.355), 2 HR, 6 RBI

Eh?

[VonErich Lives]

RISP: 38-108 (.352), 14 HR, 73 RBI, 7 doubles
Bases Loaded: 6-19 (.316), 3 HR, 22 RBI
Runners on 1st and 2nd: 16-29 (.552), 4 HR, 23 RBI
Late Innings of Close Games: 11-31 (.355), 2 HR, 6 RBI

Eh?

Source? and time frame? (this season, last season, career?)

I only ask because everytime I've seen/heard stats on Manny his stats don't come in close games.

[The Miz]

These are 2005 stats from mlb.com

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_player_splits.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=120903&sitSplit1=All&statType=1&statSet=1&splitSet=2

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_player_splits.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=120903&sitSplit1=All&statType=1&statSet=1&splitSet=3

[RP]

I love Manny Ramirez. I love his comment after that game winning hit he got.

Ramirez : " Just Manny being Manny". :lol:



If i ever get arrested . I'm gunna tell the cop " I dunno man, just shawn being shawn "

[RoXer]

Rickey Henderson is gunna do what Rickey Henderson is going to do and that is to be the best Ricky Henderson that Ricky Henderson could possibly imagine Rickey Henderson being to the fullest extend of his Ricky Henderosn ways. [/David Cross]

[The Miz]

Here are Manny's career clutch hitting numbers

RISP: 567-1711 (.331), 118 HR, 941 RBI
Bases Loaded: 63-180 (.350), 20 HR, 209 RBI
Men on, 2 outs: .313
Man on 3rd, 0 or 1 out: .350
Men on 2nd and 3rd: .371
RISP, 2 out: .312

[The Miz]

In the playoffs with the Indians: .223
In the playoffs with the Sox: .312

[The Miz]

P.S. He's clutch.

[VonErich Lives]

P.S. He's clutch.

You originall had a " Late Innings of Close Games" stat, do you have that career wise?

That's the stat I'm talking about, that's what makes a "Clutch" hitter.

You also might want to look at what he didn't do against the Yanks in the ALCS and yes, he was MVP of the WS, but as the stats show, 1/2 the team could have won that award.

He's a great hitter, don't get me wrong, but bottom of the 9th, two outs tieing run on base, he's not my first choice.

Plus all these funny "Manny being Manny" won't be so funny if he does it during an ALCS or WS.

I think w/o question Ortiz is the best "game on the line" hitter in baseball right now.

Which does ask the question, how good would he be with Olerud behined him instead of Manny?

That they "pitch to Ortiz" so they don't have to "pitch to manny"

[The Miz]

I'm lookign for that stat career wise but I dunno. But that stat alone does not make a clutch hitter. Hitting a 3-run homer with your team down 2 in the 6th inning is clutch hitting. It doesn't always have to be in the final inning.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Yea I really don't see how you can shit on Manny saying his not clutch. If you are going to shit on him, you gotta point out his fielding. Or the fact he is kinda insane. He isn't as clutch as Ortiz but really who is? Ortiz is the most clutch hitter in the majors right now.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

"I'm gangster" - Manny Ramirez

I love this guy

[Loose Cannon]

NEW YORK YANKEES:

AL EAST CHAMPIONS

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

If Red Sox win tomorrow they are tied for the AL East. Stupid that it goes to head to head through out the course of the season. Well it's not that stupid but why tell us all this shit about a one game playoff when its not going to happen?

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Red Sox win tomorrow they are in...or Cleveland loses. LETS GO SOX (both colors)

[RoXer]

You are the only only ooooooonnnnlyyyyyyyyyyy

[VonErich Lives]

If Red Sox win tomorrow they are tied for the AL East. Stupid that it goes to head to head through out the course of the season. Well it's not that stupid but why tell us all this shit about a one game playoff when its not going to happen?

It could have happened.

Either if the Sox, Yanks & Indiains had a 3-way-tie.

OR

The sox and yanks tied & the indiains had a better record.

Otherwise, in a situation where both teams qualify for a playoff birth, there is no playoff, and with the win today, the sox gaurentee atleast a playoff for the wild card game, and with a win or a cleveland loss tomorrow, they get the WC.

Side note, local pub last week, bunch of local "old timers" bitching how they hate the Wildcard.

I look over and say "Without the wild card the sox never could have won the World Series"... man, the place went silent fast :).

Hasn't the WC won like 3 out of the last 4 WS?

Anyway, hope we play the White Sox at some point, wanna be able to chant "1917" :P

[VonErich Lives]

ps, going to the game tomorrow... had a sick offer to sell the tickets, but decided to keep them, did end up selling todays though... Bet those people were happy they gave me 12x face value...

[Loose Cannon]

yea, Angles, Florida and Boston have all been WC's and all won the thing the last three years.

Nice avatar :cool:

[Dragon]

Yeah, not too bad of seats for tomorrow. Hopefully its a decent game, because the Yanks will probably rest some people. Last game of the season though, so whatever, should be good either way.

It still would be nice to win tomorrow and have Cleveland win, so the Sox have to do that one game series. That would be a ridiculous game with the whole season depending on it.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Is Clement serious?

[Loose Cannon]

this ump is terrible. Trot got called on a high one and Millar got called on a low one. He's all over the place.

[Loose Cannon]

I mean Veriteck, not Trot

[Joey Slugs]

Clement + ex Cub factor = trouble.

keep him in. i love it.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Nice job Clement :y:

[Joey Slugs]

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

When Scotty Pods is going deep on you... you know it's over.

12-2 Pale Hose.

[VonErich Lives]

this ump is terrible. Trot got called on a high one and Millar got called on a low one. He's all over the place.

Quite possible the biggest strike zone I've seen since I played little league.

and Clement still couldn't find a strike zone.

He's screwed up, he's head is screwed up... the shot to the head, the one back at him today, the time to release... But, if the sox advance and you pull him for Arroyo, then who comes out of the pen if you need long relief?

[The Outlaw]

LOL dang

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I can't believe they lost game 2. I thought for sure they had it locked down

[Joey Slugs]

i'm shocked that there isn't more "don't worry. we've been here before" posts after yesturday's game.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

White Sox flat out out played the Red Sox. I know pitching wins World Series so I guess I was just blinded by being a fan. Atleast one thing we got out of this series is that Papelbon is fuckin sick.

[The Miz]

Yep and Schilling isn't. If Papelbon started every game Schilling did when he came back from injury Boston wins the division and plays LAA in the first round who they are better than.

[VonErich Lives]

Yep and Schilling isn't. If Papelbon started every game Schilling did when he came back from injury Boston wins the division and plays LAA in the first round who they are better than.

Don't know that for sure, but it's possible.

Schilling has I think 1 more year left, he'll have a full off-season this year, to get into shape and finishing healing, so he'll be fine next year. I don't expect a roger clemens type year from him, but he'll be #2 starter quality.

Wakefield, Schilling, Wells, Pappelbon & Clemment. Not exactly in that order.

Part of what killed the sox is they didn't wrap the divison when they could have, hence they couldn't "set up" they're pitching rotation which might have helped, not having you're #4 pitcher, pitch the #1 game.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Its alright though. Red Sox have a lot of young players coming up. They might be the ranked the best farm system by some geek but they got up about 3 pitchers who will be full time in the majors next year, as well as a few position players that mostly played Triple A last season. I don't know if they are going to resign Damon. If Millar and Mueller leaves then Damon is gone too I would think, since he has stated they should not break up the core of the team.

[VonErich Lives]

Its alright though. Red Sox have a lot of young players coming up. They might be the ranked the best farm system by some geek but they got up about 3 pitchers who will be full time in the majors next year, as well as a few position players that mostly played Triple A last season. I don't know if they are going to resign Damon. If Millar and Mueller leaves then Damon is gone too I would think, since he has stated they should not break up the core of the team.

I dunno, his agent is gonna want a lot of money, and who knows how much say his Wife has. As I'm sure you know (being local) she got a job doing a show on Nesn, which is partially (maybe now fully?) owned by the Red Sox.

Think Steinbrenner would let him keep the hair/beard?

I don't see too many options for him... just based on money.

Boston, NYY, maybe LAA or LAD. If the Mets deal Beltran for Manny, could they afford Damon also?

I didn't realise Timlin is a Free Agent, I really want him back.

[The Miz]

Don't know that for sure, but it's possible.

Schilling has I think 1 more year left, he'll have a full off-season this year, to get into shape and finishing healing, so he'll be fine next year. I don't expect a roger clemens type year from him, but he'll be #2 starter quality.

Wakefield, Schilling, Wells, Pappelbon & Clemment. Not exactly in that order.

Part of what killed the sox is they didn't wrap the divison when they could have, hence they couldn't "set up" they're pitching rotation which might have helped, not having you're #4 pitcher, pitch the #1 game.

Part of what killed the sox is that they had a bum in their rotation. Schilling fucked the Red Sox in every way possible, he blew games out of the bullpen and starting.

Closing, Timlin > Schilling
Starting, Papelbon > Schilling

Schilling sucks. Period. Despite pitching "one of the greatest performances in history" aka. a slightly above average game in a game 6 that clinched nothing, Schilling was absolute shit this year and Francona was blind to think he could start after his performance is a closer.

You are also blind to think you will get even a #2 starter out fo Schilling next year. Schilling said himself a couple weeks ago "I'm not injured, I'm just not pitching well." The man is 39 and way past his prime. Guys like Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, and Barry Bonds have spoiled us to think guys this old can continue to perform at such a high level. Unless Schilling starts "sharing workout tips" with David Ortiz he is done.

Schilling has a WS vesting clause in his contract so you'll have to put up with him through 07. Good luck Red Sox Nation

[The Miz]

Think Steinbrenner would let him keep the hair/beard?

Not a chance. But he will be in New York next year.

[Loose Cannon]

By the way, what happened to all those 40+ Sox fans from last year?

[The Miz]

RED SOX NATION BABY

[Joey Slugs]

Done.

[VonErich Lives]

By the way, what happened to all those 40+ Sox fans from last year?

I know, I was wondering what BCWWF meant when he said "all the posters from there".

I don't think there are a lot of posters, I just think everyone jumped on the bandwaggon.

Miz, you could be right and Schilling could be done.

However, coming off injury, and not having an offseason to "get into shape". I'm willing to see how he looks next year.

Was he healthy? sure, did he have his "usual offseason" no, was he overweight yes, did he not have his usual stamina? yes.

These are all things I think he'll work his ass off in the off season, he's a guy who wants to go on his terms.

It's funny, he actually credits Clemens with turning his career around, that Roger pulled him aside somewhere (all-star game?) and talked to him about off-season workouts and that's what turned his career around.

[YOUR Hero]

http://www.spudart.org/blog/images/2005/realredsock_withtag.gif

Abra Cadaver!

[VonErich Lives]

Maybe we should have sewed clements tendon... :)

[The Miz]

Maybe Wakefield should start playing Everquest

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

RED SOX NATION BABY
LOL

Whatever though. Red Sox had pretty good season for what happened - still made the post season. Looking at their pitching. Wade Miller hurt, Schilling never back to old form, Clement losing it after he got hit in the head, Foulke blowing saves plus other shit. Schilling pitched in a worthless game 6 though. The game he pitched in the World Series was worthless too.

Last year was the GOAT. Best 'story' baseball has seen in a long ass time, what is the story this year? Where is the 'drama?' White Sox trying to win for the first time since 1917? Why should I care about that when half of Chicago doesn't even care about it.

[VonErich Lives]

Maybe Wakefield should start playing Everquest

I was more thinking Schilling should work on a knuckleball.

Wakefield was the "ace" of the season for the Red Sox.

[VonErich Lives]

Why should I care about that when half of Chicago doesn't even care about it.

speaking of not caring, what's up with the Braves not selling out?

[YOUR Hero]

Why should I care about that when half of Chicago doesn't even care about it.

You are finally almost getting it. Not everyone cares about the Red Sox either. Just like not everyone cares about the Yankees, or the Blue Jays, or the... Do you understand what I'm saying? Last year your team was winning it all, and it was great for you and those who like(d) them. That does not equal everybody however.

Baseball wasn't made for you or even for Boston fans. Once you get over that self-importance that seems to follow around Red Sox fans, the sooner other people will be happy when Boston does well.

<!-- / message -->

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

No I don't mean it like that. Where is the story in this year's playoffs though? If you talk about other sports I can find plenty of other "stories" during the playoffs that don't envolve my favorite team. Only thing that would be pretty hot would be a Yankees vs Red Sox series. I would like to see the Braves win with all the rookies but they aren't even selling out their home stadium during the playoffs. So that obviously isn't a big story, White Sox had the best record in the AL all season and everyone is Chicago was still talking about the Cubs.

[VonErich Lives]

You are finally almost getting it. Not everyone cares about the Red Sox either. Just like not everyone cares about the Yankees, or the Blue Jays, or the... Do you understand what I'm saying? Last year your team was winning it all, and it was great for you and those who like(d) them. That does not equal everybody however.

Baseball wasn't made for you or even for Boston fans. Once you get over that self-importance that seems to follow around Red Sox fans, the sooner other people will be happy when Boston does well.

<!-- / message -->

Where do you get this whole "Boston fans self-importance" crap?

Do more people care about the Sox and Yankees then do about the Jays and Mariners, probably, at least Merch sales and TV Viewing shows that.

But, where do you get Boston fans have some "self-importance" that other fans don't?

We root for our team, same way you root for yours.