John Cena (Smackdown Spoilers)

[Goulet]

Cena lost the US title to Orlando Jordan tonight at the Smackdown tapings

Credit: Gerweck.net

[The Naitch]

THE JUICE IS LOOSE!!!!

[Volchok]

o yeah tonight its at the Pepsi.. stupid snow storm closed school so i couldnt scope out the Pepsi...

[KingofOldSchool]

I knew that was coming...

[den1982]

i be them not oj

[Shaggy]

This possibly could only mean that he will gain the title at mania....I guess JBLs days are numbered.

[John la Rock]

I hope Cena doesn't win at Mania because Batista's win will make Cena's win seem unimportant since it wasn't the main-event

[Corkscrewed]

You are fucking kidding me. He DESTROYS everyone in his path, surviving cheap heel tactics, a stabbed kidney, and everything thrown in his way, and then he loses the title to, out of all people, ORLANDO JORDAN??????????

Shit like this is why SmackDOWN! sucks. Yes, I've become a RAW fan now. (Now that I get Spike TV, it's easy to say)

[John la Rock]

because OJ has a dental plan :shifty:

[The Naitch]

Orlando Jordan looks funny

[Corkscrewed]

When he had that freaky face on vs Cena a few weeks ago, I thought he looked like a banshee.

[RGWhat316]

Well I thought this might happen, but with Cena's momentum, I thought he would go into WM as US champ. I'll have to see how this goes on tv, especially since Cena just destroyed OJ at the house show I was at on Saturday.

[Funky Fly]

The trouble is that Jordan doesn't look credible because he was elevated too fast.

It was like fluke win by a jobber in the first hour, Upper mid carder by the end of the show in one epsode. This is what backstage politics does. Once the old timers are working less, they are forced to thrust the new guys into the main event without the years of climbing the card that gives their character more depth and gives them time to improve in the ring before hitting the main event.

[The Icon of Elisim]

Whatever, now Big Show has a match for WM

[LK]

I knew this was coming

[#1-norm-fan]

Jesus H. Christ this is a bad move. Only because I'm almost positive the WWE did it in a way that made Cena look bad like having him lose to simple quick interferance.

The only way it would be okay is if

A) He were to be beaten down for a long period of time with interferance, foreign
objects, etc. ala Rock-Austin @ WM 17.

or B) Something happened early in the match (Preferably thanks to interferance) where he was unable to continue the match due to blood loss or bad injury and the belt was awarded to Orlando. This would be a betetr scenario than the first actually since it might take him off TV for a few weeks and make his health a question going into WM.

I'm sure neither of these were done though and that's what pisses me off. Just when I think they've finally remembered how to build a great wrestling character with Cena...

[Chavo Classic]

wait wait wait, THAT orlando jordan?..... awwww nuts!

[Pegasus Crawford]

Only because I'm almost positive the WWE did it in a way that made Cena look bad like having him lose to simple quick interferance.


And you are right. Bashams distracted the ref, while JBL smacked Cena with the WWE title, with OJ following up with the pin.

Typical heel win for a championship. :|

[Hired Hitman]

http://members.optusnet.com.au/jamessibley/tpww/hhh_bookedcrap.jpg

...This would have been funnier if it was on raw.

[Loose Cannon]

here we go again with someone having shit for brains on the writing team. What are they fucking out of thier minds over there? I don't see any way you can justify having Cena lose his US Title right before he is about to wrestle for the World Title at Wrestlemania. Someone should of shoved Wrestlemania 6 right in the face of whomever decided that one. And Orlando Jordan of all people. Did he beat anybody before that other then crappy jobbers? Wow, the more I'm writing this, the more I want to stab someone.

[The Icon of Elisim]

I thought of an idea today

Haas gets the win instead of Jordan

Next week he shows up on Raw to visit Shelton. Shelton ribs him about how he needed help to win the belt. Haas takes offense and the two start to fight and we get a Haas vs Benjamin interpromotional match for WM.

[The Show Off]

Cena losing the United States Championship before Wrestlemania is just WWE's way to have a US Title Match and a World Title match at Wrestlemania. Also someone mentioned before something about Wrestlemania VI, where Ultimate Warrior was the Intercontinental Champion going into his match against Hogan. There is one big diffrence between Cena and Warrior, Warrior won the title at Wrestlemania, Cena's not going to beat JBL at Wrestlemania, because even being the second to last match at Wrestlemania isn't big enough stakes for Cena to win the gold the first time.

Cena's going to win the World Championship at Wrestlemania XXII, and that's going to be the first time he does it. Randy Orton is going to jump to Smackdown! and be a heel. After a few months or so Randy will win the the Championship, and he Eddie Guerrero, JBL, and probably Taker will throw the title around, all the while planting the seeds of a Cena/Orton match at Wrestlemania XXII. Then Cena wins the Rumble and then the World Championship, making him huge!

With all that being said him losing the US Championship doesn't hurt his character, he lost due to interference, that make him look like he was screwed, just like he was when Booker T got the US belt and just like when Carlito won the US belt. Cena hasn't cleanly lost a match in about a year, so how the hell could anyone say his character is getting hurt? In the long run, him losing the US title is meaninless to his career.

[Loose Cannon]

1) He lost his Title to a jobber

2) I'll be my house he wins at Mania

3) You don't job your most over guy in the company to crap.

4) You can win 200 matches in a row and have your character killed in one night (**see WCW Dec 99)

5) Not saying his character is killed, but having him pinned 3 weeks before Mania by a guy that hasn't beat anybody big in....WELL NEVER...doesn't help a lot.

[Marc the Smark]

Credit to PWInsider.com for the following report:

I just got back from the Smackdown taping in Albany, New York. Decent size crowd tonight; Max 10000 people. 65% of the upper deck was tapered off. Though most of the matches were your regular Smackdown and Velocity quality matches, the crowd was pretty lively and almost every wrestler got a reaction. Here's a quick run of the velocity and Smackdown tapings. <

Dark Match:

Joey Matthews and Johnny Nitro (with their extremely hot manager Melina) beat Scotty 2 Hotty and Shannon Moore. Shannon Moore did a beautiful somersault plancha to the outside. Nitro and Matthews use a 3D/DDT type finisher.

Velocity:

The Bashams beat Hardcore Holly and Charlie Haas

Nunzio beat Spike Dudley

Paul London and Funaki beat Chavo Guererro and Akio with London hitting an amazing dropsault on Chavo and Akio (Akio got the moonsault portion) followed by a picture perfect 450 Splash to end the match.

Before Smackdown, a long Wrestlemania promo was showed with many wrestlers like Mick Foley, The Rock and Steve Austin talking about how "Wrestlemania changes careers".

Smackdown:

John Cena comes out to the biggest pop of the night. Pretty much he just wants to fight JBL. He's a fighting champion and therefore will defend his US title against Orlando Jordan in the main event

1st match- Tag Team Title match- Eddie Guerrero and Rey Misterio Jr. beat Mark Jindrak and Luther Reigns with Eddie hitting the frogsplash on Luther and Rey hits the 619 on the outside. Luther and Jindrak argue after the match and Jindrak knocks Luther down with a single punch.

Carlito and Teddy Long backstage segment. Carlito has to listen to Teddy Long or he will leave Smackdown. First assignment, start shoveling snow outside of the Pepsi Arena.

2nd match- Booker T beat Heidenrich. Heidenrich tries to use a chair. Gets DDTed on the chair + axe kick. booker wins

Best part of the match. Angle comes out with a couple of cops for the Angle Invitational. Talks about "beating HBK to a bloody pulp" on his home "turf" on RAW. Shows the footage from Monday night. The challenger comes out with hoody covering his face. Angle says "You think I'm that gullible? You're Shawn Michaels" It's not Michaels, it's some wrestler from Albany, New York (big pop). Angle says something then the cameraman behind Angle takes off his hat, fake mustache and eyebrows revealing HBK. Let the brawling begins. Security stops it. Enormous HBK chants. He love us and gives us a round of applause.

Backstage promo- Michelle McCool, Joy and Lauren "I am completely useless" Jones are backstage. All you need to know is that Dawn Marie is p*ssed at Michelle and challenges her to a match, a mixed tag match. They can pick any partner.

3rd match- Dawn Marie brings out Renee Dupree. Michelle brings out *suprise* Big Show. Michelle tries to wrestle. She sucks. Tries to do a springboard type elbow but messed up. Big Show chokeslams Renee. 123. Show and random diva #4 wins match.

Various WM commericals shown.

Carlito shown outside the Pepsi shoveling snow with one hand. Car passed by and covers Carlito with water.

JBL promo. We are stupid, we should respect him. Talks about his great upbringing. We're white trash blah blah blah. Leaves pissed off because he's booed like mad.

Bashams, JBL and Jordan go to leave but JBL stops him and tells him he better win the US title or he'll "send him back to the hood and his people" RACIST COMMENT! Thanks for insulting 5% of the crowd who are black.

4th match- US Title match- Orlando Jordan beat John Cena to become the new US champion. Bashams ran in and distracted the ref as JBL clocks Cena with the WWE title allowing Jordan to get the pin.

Immediately following the cameras going off. Cena is still in the ring and Taker comes in. HUGE pop. The dark match was advertised as a 6 man tag between Undertaker, Cena and Big Show vs. Kurt Angle, JBL and Heindenrich but it's changed to a regular tag match with Cena and Taker vs. JBL and Orlando Jordan. Funny stuff. Tazz wears JBL's hat and JBL wears Tazz's sunglasses. Lots of funny stuff. JBL throws up the X injury sign saying Jordan is hurt. JBL wrestle in dress shoes and pants. JBL calls for a time out during the match. Also, tries to choke Taker with the tag rope. Eventually we get Take chokeslamming Jordan and the FU from Cena on JBL to end the match. everyone leaves except for Taker who does his regular stuff much to the satisfaction of the crowd.

Not a great show but live events are extremely fun

Biggest Pop:
Cena
HBK/Taker
Big Show
Eddie/Rey

Biggest Heat:
JBL
Kurt Angle

[The Show Off]

1) He lost his Title to a jobber

2) I'll be my house he wins at Mania

3) You don't job your most over guy in the company to crap.

4) You can win 200 matches in a row and have your character killed in one night (**see WCW Dec 99)

5) Not saying his character is killed, but having him pinned 3 weeks before Mania by a guy that hasn't beat anybody big in....WELL NEVER...doesn't help a lot.


1.) John Cena didn't lose to a jobber, he lost to the "second in command" in the second biggest faction in the WWE in the past 3 or 4 years.

2.) I'll take that bet, and I'll have fun living in your house.

3.) Once again he didn't job to crap, he jobbed to the "Second in command" of the second biggest faction in WWE in the past 3 or 4 years.

4.) You can't kill off a character with one loss after that much build up. I'm not exactly sure what your refering too with December '99, but if you mean December '98 when Kevin Nash beat Goldberg, and the whole tazer incident, then your wrong that didn't kill Goldberg. Goldberg still got swome of the biggest pops in the company after that.

5.) Orlando Jordan beat Booker T on a match on Smackdown a couple of months ago. Not to mention Jordan has a lot of heat behind him being alone with JBL. And it does help the build up to Wrestlemania, because now they can play off the fact that Jordan has his coustom belt that was iconic of John Cena, it adds feul to the Wrestlemania Main Event.

[Volchok]

you gotta love the Albany fans..:)

[Loose Cannon]

I really don't know how to respond to this beacuse your the first person I've heard, casual or internet fan, pushing OJ as a credible worker. He gets no reaction what so ever and yet you see him as one of the best guys on Smackdown. Being 2nd in command in a stable nobody gives a crap about isn't saying a whole lot. The ratings and the breakdown numbers for JBL's segments prove that. Just buy a copy of the Observer and see who's tuning in to watch.

They're not having JBL winning at Mania. He's held the Title for way to long and Mania is always the place where a guy puts a stop to it. So far, I read the plan is Cena is winning. I really don't see the logic in jobbing your #1 babyface in the company at Wrestlemania for the Title. He's like thier "Austin" right now.

Saying that, let me ask you this. Say Austin had the IC Title and was going to face HBK for the Title at Mania. Do you make Austin job to HHH 3 weeks before that due to HBK interference? There's no logic there. Making your "money guys" look weak is a no no.

Oh and the Goldberg thing, again talk to anyone and they'll say that moment killed WCW and Goldberg. You should get a copy of Bobby Heenan's shoot interview. He says it himself. And he's as credible as you can get.

[Loose Cannon]

and even if JBL wins at Mania: Now you've beaten your most over superstar twice in Title matches. To me, that makes Cena seem worthless. He came all this way up and now he's lost his US Title, lost a chance at the World Title and lost at the biggest stage of them all.

[The Show Off]

and even if JBL wins at Mania: Now you've beaten your most over superstar twice in Title matches. To me, that makes Cena seem worthless. He came all this way up and now he's lost his US Title, lost a chance at the World Title and lost at the biggest stage of them all.

All leading to him facing Randy Orton at Wrestlemania XXII with the lable that John Cena can't win the big one. It's a perfect set up, at least I think so.

Do I think Orlando Jordan is US Title material, sure why not, in the same sence that Carlito is. By no means do I think Jordan winning the US Championship is perfect, but it's not a killer to Cena's character either. As long as it's a screw job ending it doesn't hurt the babyface.

The whole thing with Goldberg and Nash didn't hurt Goldberg's credibility, it hurt WCW's credibility, there's a big diffrence. THe people still loved Goldberg, they just started to hate WCW, because Nash winning was obvious politics.

I guess I'm alone in liking Orlando Jordan, I think the guy has a lot of chrisma and he keeps getting better in the ring. Now that he has Cena's coustom title he and JBL could cut a promo on how they sold the costom belt and got a more respectable belt, and they can unveil a new US Championship. This'll give JBL and Jordan lots of heat, kinda like when McMahon put the Smoking SKull Belt on his mantle, obviously less heat then that but still.

In a way this is win win, you get the title off of Cena, just incase he does win the championship, you make JBL look more like a jerk, it give a young talented kid some heat, and it adds a little more to the World title match. All of this happens and Cena comes away looking fine. He loses a screwjob match, people don't lose credibility losing a match in which they got screwed out of the title.

[M. Banana]

LC said it best..

[Corkscrewed]

1.) John Cena didn't lose to a jobber, he lost to the "second in command" in the second biggest faction in the WWE in the past 3 or 4 years.

2.) I'll take that bet, and I'll have fun living in your house.

3.) Once again he didn't job to crap, he jobbed to the "Second in command" of the second biggest faction in WWE in the past 3 or 4 years.

4.) You can't kill off a character with one loss after that much build up. I'm not exactly sure what your refering too with December '99, but if you mean December '98 when Kevin Nash beat Goldberg, and the whole tazer incident, then your wrong that didn't kill Goldberg. Goldberg still got swome of the biggest pops in the company after that.

5.) Orlando Jordan beat Booker T on a match on Smackdown a couple of months ago. Not to mention Jordan has a lot of heat behind him being alone with JBL. And it does help the build up to Wrestlemania, because now they can play off the fact that Jordan has his coustom belt that was iconic of John Cena, it adds feul to the Wrestlemania Main Event.


Geez, you sound like a complete mark right there. OJ has as much credibility as JBL did at the start of his reign... that is... none. He's viewed as a Virgil type figure, and the only heat he gets is X-Pac heat.

How many people boo OJ when he's out? They boo JBL, not OJ. Being a part of a heel faction means nothing if you can't get over on your own at least a bit, and OJ couldn't offend a white supremecist at a KKK meeting.

OJ might be "second in command of the biggest faction in recent years," but that's because JBL's cabinent is like the ONLY faction on SD in recent years. And not a really good one either, seeing as it's been put together with crummy people who didn't have any credibility before they came together. Hell, the ONLY reason the group has any credibility is because of longevity: that's all. They haven't done much, and excluding JBL's recent actual credible victories, they've basically sucked.

There are about 50 guys who deserve the US Title more than Cena, and even jobbing it to them wouldn't be wise at the moment. Cena going into WM with the chance to become a double title holder would have added more intrigue into a feud that's basically a one month feud. Wrestlemania feuds are supposed to be culminations of several months of activity (see HHH vs Batista; Benoit vs HHH; Lesnar vs Angle; Rock vs Austin I), not given just the typical PPV buildup treatment.




And now that they have Carlito embarrassing himself, SD! has given me even less of a reason to watch. I'll probably try to catch the Angle/HBK segment, and that's all.

[Fox]

I understand you people's concern over Orlando beating Cena only weeks before WrestleMania, where Cena is in the Smackdown main event for the Title. It would have been cool for John to win the WWE Title, then celebrate his victory holding both titles and looking like a champ (see: Jericho when he won the Undisputed Titles, he looked like a bad ass carrying both belts).

But at the same time, John Cena doesn't need the US Title to make his victory at WrestleMania any bigger. It would just lead to a tournament on Smackdown, or some other lame shit. Given, this situation is pretty lame too, but it gives someone else a chance with the US Title, furthers the JBL/Cena feud, and sets up another title match at Mania.

The WWE must know that Jordan is shit (JBL's shit too, but at least he can talk). OJ will job the title to a more deserving FACE at WrestleMania (probably Haas) and the title will become a mid-card belt again, instead of Cena's pretty little trophy. Cena is a main event player now - the US title is below him. I'd like to see Haas with the US Title as well, but what sense would it have made to give Charlie (a face) a victory over Cena (also a face)? This way, the Cabinet has a one-up on Cena by taking his title away, and a face can win the US Title at Mania. It's all about business.

[Fox]

and even if JBL wins at Mania: Now you've beaten your most over superstar twice in Title matches. To me, that makes Cena seem worthless. He came all this way up and now he's lost his US Title, lost a chance at the World Title and lost at the biggest stage of them all.

I'm sure that the WWE realizes this.

I think Cena's US Title loss pretty much solidifies his victory over JBL at Mania. They wouldn't gut his character by giving him two title losses in a month. He'll win at 21 and someone else will win the US Title at 21.

[The CyNick]

Show Off, LC si completely right on this one.

I also like OJ, and I think he has potential, but to say he's a credible star just because he hangs out with the WWE Champion lacks some logic. By your logic when Taker was WWE Champ with the Ministry, Viscera and Mideon were credible top guys.

Cena IS going to win at Mania, and the fact that he dropped the US title pretty much guarantees that. They will not have him lose both of his titles within the span of 5 weeks, especially when they plan on making him the focal point of Smackdown. And they cant build up his first WWE Title win for a whole year when he is so close to winning right now. If they were to wait that long, the people would give up on Cena long before Mania 22.

I agree with LC that having him JOB was really dumb. By having him win the WWE Title as the US Champ actually elevates the US title, and keeps Cena strong. Because now we've seen the guy who was the US champ beat the WWE Champ. The next guy who carries the US title would be able to point to that fact as a reason why they are top guy as well. The smart thing to do would have been for JBL to remind Long about the 30 day and clause and force Cena to defend the US title at least twice between now and Mania. They could build up that Cena is working more than JBL and therefore more vulnerable at Mania. Of course he would end up conquering the odds and win the WWE Title. Its very simple booking (which is why it would work).

The theory that they needed to have a US title match at Mania is also dumb. There's no match that they could make for OJ that would get people going "whoa OJ is defending the US title against___________ I have to see that". Its just going to be a throwaway match that nobody will remeber. Looking at the guys who dont have a serious program for Mania, the most likely match for OJ will be Booker T or more likely Big Show. Does anyone think Show-OJ will help Mania sell PPVs? If you do you're retarded.

Regarding WCW and Goldberg, the thing that killed Goldberg was that he lost the title, and never got revenge for it. Everytime Austin or Hogan lost the title in the WWE, they would battle back and get it back. With Goldberg they just pushed him aside, and it made him look like a joke. But that said, having him lose at that point to Nash, the way it happened was really stupid.

[The Show Off]

Show Off, LC si completely right on this one.

I also like OJ, and I think he has potential, but to say he's a credible star just because he hangs out with the WWE Champion lacks some logic. By your logic when Taker was WWE Champ with the Ministry, Viscera and Mideon were credible top guys.

Cena IS going to win at Mania, and the fact that he dropped the US title pretty much guarantees that. They will not have him lose both of his titles within the span of 5 weeks, especially when they plan on making him the focal point of Smackdown. And they cant build up his first WWE Title win for a whole year when he is so close to winning right now. If they were to wait that long, the people would give up on Cena long before Mania 22.

I agree with LC that having him JOB was really dumb. By having him win the WWE Title as the US Champ actually elevates the US title, and keeps Cena strong. Because now we've seen the guy who was the US champ beat the WWE Champ. The next guy who carries the US title would be able to point to that fact as a reason why they are top guy as well. The smart thing to do would have been for JBL to remind Long about the 30 day and clause and force Cena to defend the US title at least twice between now and Mania. They could build up that Cena is working more than JBL and therefore more vulnerable at Mania. Of course he would end up conquering the odds and win the WWE Title. Its very simple booking (which is why it would work).

The theory that they needed to have a US title match at Mania is also dumb. There's no match that they could make for OJ that would get people going "whoa OJ is defending the US title against___________ I have to see that". Its just going to be a throwaway match that nobody will remeber. Looking at the guys who dont have a serious program for Mania, the most likely match for OJ will be Booker T or more likely Big Show. Does anyone think Show-OJ will help Mania sell PPVs? If you do you're retarded.

Regarding WCW and Goldberg, the thing that killed Goldberg was that he lost the title, and never got revenge for it. Everytime Austin or Hogan lost the title in the WWE, they would battle back and get it back. With Goldberg they just pushed him aside, and it made him look like a joke. But that said, having him lose at that point to Nash, the way it happened was really stupid.


We have two diffrent ways of looking at this one. I'm pretty sure that Cena isn't going to become World Champion at Wrestlemania, because this match isn't big enough, it isn't the main event. However, I do get all your points I understand the logic involved, but I just disagree. I suppose their is no other way for me to say it, I disagree.

However, you did prove me right with you last paragraph, the loss didn't kill Goldberg the plan after the loss killed him, so my statment that screwjobs don't kill babyfaces. So LC isn't completely right, and nor am I. So to say that he's completely right and I'm completely wrong is asinine. We are neither of us right or wrong, this is all opinion which has no right or wrong. So just because you don't think what wrote was a good idea, doesn't mean anything really. I'm sure no one will agree with me about Cena losing at Wrestlemania XXI just wait until April 3rd.

[M. Banana]

John Cena wasn't in the main event last year, yet he won the US title from Big Show.

[Hired Hitman]

"Carlito shown outside the Pepsi shoveling snow with one hand. Car passed by and covers Carlito with water."

:'(

[#1-norm-fan]

Alright, here's the deal...

The Rock lost ALL THE TIME during his peak. He was huge no matter what therefore, the WWE would job him left and right and since he was so big they would milk each loss and try to make it seem huge. However, for that part of the audience (Myself definately included) who believe that bigger of a star you are, the more there should be an illusion of invincability to you, it was absolutely HORRIBLE.

If you really love wrestling as WRESTLING, and love it for the illusion of being real sport and competition, then you want to see characters being built as part of an echelon. At the top of that echelon you want guys who seem impossible to beat and are consistant in how tough they are to beat in that they don't go through a grueling 45 minute match with a top-teir guy @ a PPV one night and then lose in 10 minutes to a lesser star a week later (See Hogan in the early '90's, Bret Hart and HBK in the mid 90's.) Then you want that echelon to go down to the jobbers that no one really cares about.

Right now, in WWE everyone is right in the middle. The biggest stars (barring HHH) have virtually identical win-loss records as the mid-range guys. So if you are into the old school sports aspect of wrestling, then what makes a main eventer a main eventer? With Cena, WWE has done a pretty good job making him into a true main eventer in that he was good as a rookie, putting up a good fight against Kurt Angle in his first match and has become better to the point where he beat Angle in a great match to earn his title shot. Now after the match he had with Angle, all that progress is jarred again with what seems to be a relatively easy loss to Orlando Jordan.

I'm upset to say the least. :mad:

Also, if I don't atleast get the joy of seeing Cena win the WWE title @ WM I will cry for an extended period of time.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think the only two good things that can come out of this are a new US Title that is acually a decent belt with some kind of dignity to it, and maybe a new "gets DQ'd on purpose to retain the title" heel. I personally think it would be interesting to see JBL demand Orlando hands the US Title over to him after he loses at WrestleMania.

I think it goes without saying that Cena will win at WrestleMania. I personally don't want him to, but him wlaking away with the WWE Championship is almost certain.

I don't mind Cena the person, or the wrestler, but I know that if any of my friends tuned in to SmackDown! and saw Cena, they would laugh and yell "What a retard!" out loud. I think this "Chain Gang" stuff turns away just as many kids as it draws in.

Unfortunately the WWE have dug themselves into a whole where their only challenger on SmackDown! is John Cena. SO WHY TAKE THE F'N US TITLE OFF HIM?!?

If they really wanted to make something of the heat between The Cabinet and Cena, they could have had Cena win the WWE Title at WrestleMania WHILE he is US Champion, and then on SmackDown! you run the OJ thing. The next week you have JBL demand OJ hand him the title, and they play up how JBL was too scared to get in the ring with Cena, and we get an OJ face turn and a title defense against JBL at Judgment Day.

I'd personally ship Cena off to RAW after Mania for Batista, so we can have John Cena vs. Christian a Backlash for the WWE Championship (how great would that mini-feud be, seriously?), and Batista defending against Kurt Angle at Judgment Day. I know WrestleMania may be his last match, but if he decides to stay around (which I think he will because Angle gives way too much for us), he and Batista would make a great feud, IMO.

[Scarface]

I agree with #1-wwf-fan, Cena losing his US championship should have been a major screw job with all sorts of people coming out to help screw him over and OJ winning should have been by the squeekiest of margins.

It would have also made it seem possible that Cena could lose via interference at Mania and thusly give him a proper opponent in the unexpected rather than just that lame-ass JBL.

[BatistaBomb]

this really sucks cause i'm going to smackdown tuesday and they are obviously pushing cena on the ads heavier than anyone else.being that john is my favorite out there i wanted to see him with that spinning belt and i wanted to see him walk out of mania with both belts but at least he'll walk out with the world title

[The Dub]

1.) John Cena didn't lose to a jobber, he lost to the "second in command" in the second biggest faction in the WWE in the past 3 or 4 years.

2.) I'll take that bet, and I'll have fun living in your house.

3.) Once again he didn't job to crap, he jobbed to the "Second in command" of the second biggest faction in WWE in the past 3 or 4 years.

4.) You can't kill off a character with one loss after that much build up. I'm not exactly sure what your refering too with December '99, but if you mean December '98 when Kevin Nash beat Goldberg, and the whole tazer incident, then your wrong that didn't kill Goldberg. Goldberg still got swome of the biggest pops in the company after that.

5.) Orlando Jordan beat Booker T on a match on Smackdown a couple of months ago. Not to mention Jordan has a lot of heat behind him being alone with JBL. And it does help the build up to Wrestlemania, because now they can play off the fact that Jordan has his coustom belt that was iconic of John Cena, it adds feul to the Wrestlemania Main Event.

I do agree with you about JBL retaining at Mania, but I don't remember OJ beating Booker. I've seen OJ win one match EVER (excluding Velocity matches) and that was when he beat Renee Dupree right before he became Chief Of Staff. I said a while back that Cena should job the US title to Orlando to make The Cabinet look more dominant. JBL losing the title at Mania doesn't make sense because The Cabinet won't look as strong with everyone but JBL holding a title. They need to have Cena chase for the title and build the feud more. Cena will still be over with or without a title, so having him beat JBL doesn't make sense right now.

[Mr. Nerfect]

As I said, I hope JBL goes over at Mania, and it is a logical move, IMO. Cena's over right now, and there is no doubt the fans will love it if he wins. But I still think it could detract from the main event. Or the main event will completely blow it out of the water, especially since the US Title is not holding this match up now.

It doesn't really matter now, because I still think Cena is a flavour of the month, and his push still feels too forced for my liking. I might just be being overly critical, but I am a fan of Cena's skills, but I don't really think they're responsible for his push.

This would be like giving The Hurricane a push and the title, IMO. He's got the skills, and he's over like rover, but it would just be a merchandised push, and I really think that is all the WWE is thinking about at the moment.

[Loose Cannon]

I really don't understand that thinking at all. All of you wanting JBL to retain are basing it on giving Cena the Title in the "future" correct? I've seen this before and waiting can be great sometimes, but this IS NOT one of those times. You got to pull the trigger when the guy is hot. You can't wait on this. JBL has had the Title for how long now? Like I said, Mania is usually always the place where "babyface" ends "heel" run. It's happened countless times before.

I just don't understand the logic in having Cena lose Title matches twice in a row.

And no Cena is not the flavour of the month. He's been the flavor of the past two years, if you want to go by time. Name a guy who's been as over as he has the past two years?

And LOL at you comparing Hurricane to Cena. That's just really ridiculous.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I really don't understand that thinking at all. All of you wanting JBL to retain are basing it on giving Cena the Title in the "future" correct? I've seen this before and waiting can be great sometimes, but this IS NOT one of those times. You got to pull the trigger when the guy is hot. You can't wait on this. JBL has had the Title for how long now? Like I said, Mania is usually always the place where "babyface" ends "heel" run. It's happened countless times before.

I just don't understand the logic in having Cena lose Title matches twice in a row.

And no Cena is not the flavour of the month. He's been the flavor of the past two years, if you want to go by time. Name a guy who's been as over as he has the past two years?

And LOL at you comparing Hurricane to Cena. That's just really ridiculous.

John Cena will not be "cool" forever, and if he has the title when that happens, the WWE is in trouble. I still see the guy as a walking gimmick, which is where I draw the connection between him and The Hurricane. The only difference between the two is that The Hurricane does not win squash matches.

If the WWE turned the guy into one who was NOT so corny and pathetic, I think he would be a great WWE Champion. But "Poop" Cena would turn around 80% of the human race if they were new to wrestling.

[Loose Cannon]

NO, the difference is that Cena draws MONEY. KEY WORD: MONEY. I'll say it again: MONEY. When has Hurricane ever drawn a dime or even been over for that matter? I mean, do you see what your saying here?

This is like saying Hogan was the same as Tugboat, the only difference was Hogan won sqaush matches. COME ON.

"You" probably don't like him, but "you" are only 0.00000000000000001% of the poulation among wrestling fans. Cena has been over for two years now. So, in wrestling terms, two years is a pretty long time to be over, especially in wrestling today, where guys come and go like bus boys in a fast food restraunt.


No, he will not be "cool" forever. It's called changing characters. Rock was in the Nation, became "cool" then went Corporate.

Austin lost his "coolness" after a few years.

Nothing last forever and your right there.

[Boondock Saint]

I dunno. I'm on the fence about this. I think the obvious reason is that they want the US title defended at Mania so they took it off of Cena. But Orlando Jordan? Bah.

But wouldn't Cena having both belts after Mania, and then losing the US title make him look like a weak WWE champ, by interference or not. It would show that he couldn't hold onto a belt that was "less than" the WWE title. At least this way it was before he got the title and it was due to the Bashams and JBL. So it isn't like he lost to OJ fair and square.

I dunno. As long as Cena wins at Mania I will be happy.

[Hired Hitman]

As long as Cena doesn't change the WWE Championship into another Spinning middle title... I will be happy.

Also Cena will win at Wrestlemania, look at Benoit and Guerrero, worked good for both of them last year(both winning their brands title).

[Boondock Saint]

As long as Cena doesn't change the WWE Championship into another Spinning middle title... I will be happy.

Also Cena will win at Wrestlemania, look at Benoit and Guerrero, worked good for both of them last year(both winning their brands title).

LOL @ spinning WWE title. :nono:

Yeah, and I cringe at what Eddie and Benoit are doing at Mania this year. :'(

[mrslackalack]

Hopefully OJ's reign is short I would like to see him drop the title to Rey Mysterio on Smackdown or a PPV like Judgement Day.

[Mr. Nerfect]

NO, the difference is that Cena draws MONEY. KEY WORD: MONEY. I'll say it again: MONEY. When has Hurricane ever drawn a dime or even been over for that matter? I mean, do you see what your saying here?

This is like saying Hogan was the same as Tugboat, the only difference was Hogan won sqaush matches. COME ON.

"You" probably don't like him, but "you" are only 0.00000000000000001% of the poulation among wrestling fans. Cena has been over for two years now. So, in wrestling terms, two years is a pretty long time to be over, especially in wrestling today, where guys come and go like bus boys in a fast food restraunt.


No, he will not be "cool" forever. It's called changing characters. Rock was in the Nation, became "cool" then went Corporate.

Austin lost his "coolness" after a few years.

Nothing last forever and your right there.

The Hurricane draws money as well. People don't pay to see him, but you'd be surprised how much merchandise he would actually sell.

The Hurricane not over? He was over HUGE for a long time. He didn't get the "Pop of the Night", but he woke the crowds up, and his mask thing got everyone smiling.

I'm not putting Cena and Hurricane on equal grounds, but they are similiar cases. If John Cena had lost 3/4 matches he had on SmackDown! and subsequently Velocity, he would be a rapping version of The Hurricane right now.

Cena is over like rover at the moment, and he's been over for quite a while, but I very seriously doubt he's made too many new fans. I may just be being cynical, but I think Cena's overness can be attributed to the lack of stars on the current WWE roster. I have a feeling that if The Rock came back, and talked down Cena making fun of him, etc. Cena's popularity would decrease.

I don't know what point I'm trying to make here, but I still think that Cena's push is too forced, and his reaction could go any day of the week.

Character developement is something that could be used to try and save Cena if/when the fans turn on him, but completely changing it would just seem retarded, I think.

I have nothing against Cena as the wrestler, or the person, and if he retained his edge and made himself seem like a wrestler that occasionally raps, instead of a rapper that occasionally wrestles, I'd be the first in line to get behind him heading into WrestleMania. But right now, I feel like he's a cardboard cut-out of what he could really be.

[Loose Cannon]

You are really mixed up on what being OVER HUGE and drawing is. If you think Hurricane was/is both of those, then you can say that about all the roster.

I need CyNick to explain. You usually listen to him.

You're probably right on him selling a decent amount of merchendise, but so do a lot of guys.

[Savio]

They could have had the JBL interfere when Cena was having a match with Jindrak or Reigns then Cena could place the blame on JBL and Reigns could be jeaolous of Jindrak or vise-versa.

[The CyNick]

Look into a SD audience to see the difference between Hurricane and Cena.

Cena came out with that spinning US title, now every 5th sign in the crowd has some spinning element to it. Ive never seen anything associated with Hurricane have that kind of impact.

In terms of being a draw, its hard to call Cena a big draw, but outside of Eddie and maybe Taker (who is a part timer these days) he's the biggest draw on that brand (ie people who put asses into seats). That could be because the whole company is lacking stars at the moment, but the point is he is a draw. I've heard that Cena has actually moved TV ratings, which few guys in WWE (including Hurricane) are doing at the moment.

Saying that he wont be over forever is irrelevant, you can say that about anyone, using that logic you would never push anyone ever. The point is he was over last year at Mania, and he's now even more over, and I would say, against aside form Eddie, he's the most over guy on SD. So its only logical to put the title on him.

Building it up for another year is way too risky. Fans have been led to believe that no new stars will ever get over given the way the WWE booking has went over the past few years. Now you have a guy in Cena who the fans are behind, you have a heel champion who has beat all the faces on the brand and the fans want to see get beat, so you want to screw the guy the fans want to win on the biggest show of the year? Thats nuts!

If your idea is to have Cena chase next year, hey go for it, but why not have him win this year as well? Austin's first title chase story did over 700,000 buys on PPV, his third title win did over 800,000 buys and his 5th title win did nearly a million buys and set box office records. So its not like once he wins the title the first time people will automatically care less about subsequent title wins.

[snakeboss]

I sure hope JBL doesn't retain, that will spoil Wrestlemania for me. Cena has to win, that's why he's lost his US titles, so he doesn't own both. I'm guessing Orlando Jordan will lose his title to someone at Wrestlemania 21. I hope it's Rey Mysterio, but I hear he's facing Eddy, then maybe Big Show...

[Nervous Ferret]

Your wisdom is surpassed, only by your ignorance.

[Mr. Nerfect]

You are really mixed up on what being OVER HUGE and drawing is. If you think Hurricane was/is both of those, then you can say that about all the roster.

I need CyNick to explain. You usually listen to him.

You're probably right on him selling a decent amount of merchendise, but so do a lot of guys.

There's no doubt The Hurricane isn't a draw, but I don't consider John Cena one either. Sure he's over, and possibly the most popular guy on the roster, but I still feel he's a cardboard cut-out character.

I know you do marketting, so you'd have a better knowledge than me on the subject, but I am still not convinced Cena should win at the biggest PPV of the year. I don't really know why, but I just don't see it as a good move. I'm probably just being ignorant, but I think Cena should have more depth when he finally wins a World Championship.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Look into a SD audience to see the difference between Hurricane and Cena.

Cena came out with that spinning US title, now every 5th sign in the crowd has some spinning element to it. Ive never seen anything associated with Hurricane have that kind of impact.

In terms of being a draw, its hard to call Cena a big draw, but outside of Eddie and maybe Taker (who is a part timer these days) he's the biggest draw on that brand (ie people who put asses into seats). That could be because the whole company is lacking stars at the moment, but the point is he is a draw. I've heard that Cena has actually moved TV ratings, which few guys in WWE (including Hurricane) are doing at the moment.

Saying that he wont be over forever is irrelevant, you can say that about anyone, using that logic you would never push anyone ever. The point is he was over last year at Mania, and he's now even more over, and I would say, against aside form Eddie, he's the most over guy on SD. So its only logical to put the title on him.

Building it up for another year is way too risky. Fans have been led to believe that no new stars will ever get over given the way the WWE booking has went over the past few years. Now you have a guy in Cena who the fans are behind, you have a heel champion who has beat all the faces on the brand and the fans want to see get beat, so you want to screw the guy the fans want to win on the biggest show of the year? Thats nuts!

If your idea is to have Cena chase next year, hey go for it, but why not have him win this year as well? Austin's first title chase story did over 700,000 buys on PPV, his third title win did over 800,000 buys and his 5th title win did nearly a million buys and set box office records. So its not like once he wins the title the first time people will automatically care less about subsequent title wins.

I admit you and LC are right, but I still can't help but dislike his current character.

The only thing you said I don't agree with is the relevence of being over for long periods of time. The thing about a character like Edge is that he's got depth. He plays a person on screen, and he can change over time to develope new character traits, etc. Cena plays a rapper, and I just can't see him coming out one day and syaing "I'm not a rapper anymore." because the fans have turned on the gimmick.

Eddie Guerrero may not be getting massive ovations forever, but his gimmick is built around him as a person. John Cena just seems too 2D at this time. Sure, I'm probably wrong, and the WWE will receive a huge boost when he wins the WWE Championship at WrestleMania, but I'm sticking to my opinion that Cena is just lacking something that other stars had.

Maybe it's just I get the feeling his win would be anti-climatic? He earned his title shot by going over Orlando Jordan, a man who returned the favour this past week, and by beating Kurt Angle (no small feat, but it's not like a win over The Undertaker at WrestleMania).

If you asked someone "Why does Cena deserve the title shot outside of his win over Angle?" they'd probably be lost for words. If he was being built-up as a main eventer around the time he was feuding with Booker T for the US Title I'd probably be singing a different tune, but it just seems that since the Royal Rumble they've just moved him up out of desperation.

Cena was the pick to be main eventing WrestleMania for a while, but I still think they went about it in a lazy "Now he's main eventing." way. I'd rather see him end up short at WrestleMania, then win the title at Judgment Day or The Great American Bash, just to give it some build.

I'm sure you and LC are right, though, and the fans wil lbuy into him as a World Champion, and I will probably follow blowing Cena's horns for the several months Cena will likely remain WWE Champion.

[Loose Cannon]

Yea, I see the point you have. I can't stand Cena eathier right now, but the fans love him, so it's only the right thing to do.

I can't wait for Orton/Cena though

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yea, I see the point you have. I can't stand Cena eathier right now, but the fans love him, so it's only the right thing to do.

I can't wait for Orton/Cena though

:drool: I seriously think that is the money feud in the WWE right now. Cena vs. Batista would be nice, but it just doesn't have the atmosphere of Orton vs. Cena.

I have a feeling we'll be seeing Randy Orton defending the WWE Championship against John Cena and Triple H defending the World Heavyweight Championship against Shelton Benjamin, and maybe Batista in a Triple Threat Match at WrestleMania 22.

WrestleMania 21 doesn't seem like a "weak" card, but I think it is suffering slightly due to the conversions of eras going on. I have a feeling WrestleMania 22 will be the first of the "new" and it will really be something to behold.

[John la Rock]

I think after Mania when Cena is the WWE Champ and Orton retires the Undertaker for good a feud between the 2 would be HOOOOOTTT

It would remind me so much of Rock vs Austin

[XL]

Just one thing...

Cena couldn't have lost the US title after Mania, everyone knows you can't hold both the top tier and lower tier titles.

Check 1990!

[The CyNick]

Just some food for thought

Hogan never really had any major backstory into winning the WWE Title for the first time, he just showed up on TV, kicked some ass, and got a title shot at a hated heel champion. He won, the WWE got behind him, and the rest is history.

Cena isn't Hulk Hogan, but at the same time, if the fans are into someone, give them what they want, dont complicate matters.

And about his "gimmick", I dont see him as a guy doing a "white rapper" gimmick, I just think thats how he is. The fact of the matter is probably 65% of kids in America look and act like he does. Hip hop is the most popular genre of music among the kids, so just because he wears throwbacks, sneakers and rhymes doesn't make him a gimmick like he's TL Hopper or something pretending to be a plumber.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Just some food for thought

Hogan never really had any major backstory into winning the WWE Title for the first time, he just showed up on TV, kicked some ass, and got a title shot at a hated heel champion. He won, the WWE got behind him, and the rest is history.

Cena isn't Hulk Hogan, but at the same time, if the fans are into someone, give them what they want, dont complicate matters.

And about his "gimmick", I dont see him as a guy doing a "white rapper" gimmick, I just think thats how he is. The fact of the matter is probably 65% of kids in America look and act like he does. Hip hop is the most popular genre of music among the kids, so just because he wears throwbacks, sneakers and rhymes doesn't make him a gimmick like he's TL Hopper or something pretending to be a plumber.

That's all it coems down to, I think. It just occurs to me that Cena could be "bigger" than he is now, and his win at Mania seem even more important than it will at WM21.

[Corkscrewed]

Cynick and #1 WWE Fan put it really well, and I'd have to disagree with Alienoid at this point, for matters Cynick's already pointed out. And of course, I'm well aware that most of this is due to opinion.

I just wanted to take the to call out that OJ is going to come out next week with bull horns on his belt instead of the spinning thingy.

[Corkscrewed]

Or it'll be bull horns glued ONTO the spinning thingy.

[Corkscrewed]

http://img239.exs.cx/img239/9482/ojustitle2zu.jpg

[#1-norm-fan]

The fact of the matter is probably 65% of kids in America look and act like he does. Hip hop is the most popular genre of music among the kids, so just because he wears throwbacks, sneakers and rhymes doesn't make him a gimmick like he's TL Hopper or something pretending to be a plumber.

Yeah, there's definately more to Cena than "just a white rapper gimmick". I am about as far from a member of that 65% as you can get. I don't listen to hip hop and can't relate to the gimmick whatsoever. However, I am about as huge of a Cena fan as there could possibly be because he's just got this awesome mixture of attitude era face and old school "all about the fans" face and the man is FULL of charisma in a way that is really close to Rock-territory.

Plus, like his skill or not, he is entertaining in the ring and can put on a great wrestling match.

[The Dub]

Building it up for another year is way too risky. Fans have been led to believe that no new stars will ever get over given the way the WWE booking has went over the past few years. Now you have a guy in Cena who the fans are behind, you have a heel champion who has beat all the faces on the brand and the fans want to see get beat, so you want to screw the guy the fans want to win on the biggest show of the year? Thats nuts!



It's not like they haven't done it before. Wrestlemania 19? Booker T. vs Triple H?