Why does everyone think Smackdown is being killed by the draft?

[Lamuella]

I keep reading posts on this board about how badly Smackdown is being fucked over by the draft. And I just don't get it.

Smackdown has lost Kurt Angle, John Cena and Carlito.

Smackdown has gained Chris Benoit, Randy Orton and Muhammed Hassan

or to put it another way:

Smackdown has lost one of the best wrestlers in the company, a cocky young upstart main eventer, and a charismatic heel

Smackdown has gained one of the best wrestlers in the company, a cocky young upstart main eventer, and a charismatic heel

Apart from the title (which I'm sure will be resolved), I don't see how Smackdown is getting the short end.

[Just John]

I think it may just be down to Smackdown losing its touch with some of the wrestlers that most people accociate with Smackdown.

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, but the great wrestler is a better wrestler and HUGELY charismatic.

Cena's a young cocky upstart and like 10 times as over. As an understatement.

And Hassan really should be considered on par with Carlito, but afte rthe first two picks...Dats not cul

[Just John]

I think the package deal was a lame attempt to keep us from thinking that Smackdown is being beat down by raw.

I think the WWE have a strange notion of, more = better and quantity over quality.

[M. Banana]

How many more picks are left?

[Corkscrewed]

Two each, and they'll take place next week when each show gets two picks.

Anyway, I gotta take it back... SD! isn't as screwed as I thought, especially with Psicosis, Super Crazy, and Juventud on the show now. If they return it to its awesome wrestling roots, that'd be pretty cool.

I mean, I read the spoilers, and I STILL marked out three times last night (which has like... never happened).

The Taker lightning bolt was the first cuz I'm a huge Taker fan and that was a fantastic camera angle.

Los Grass Cutters ( :shifty: ) cracked me up like hell... I hope they make this the cruiser stable Tajiri's yakuza should have been.

And SD! getting Hassan'd was priceless. My brother (who only knew Hassan had been drafted but not when he'd show up) was like "Hassan should interrupt the Big Show" and then

ALAYELAYELAYELAYEYAAAAAA!!!!!

Me: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

[Lamuella]

Daiviri is the best fucking mic worker in the company.

Seriously.

I also want one thing to happen with Hassan.

When he comes out and the crows is chanting "USA! USA! USA!", I want him to say "I'm from New Jersey, you morons!"

[Just John]

Mabye you're right, mabye having Hassan on Smackdown isnt too bad. I suppose we can only wait and see how it turns out

[Kane Knight]

Daiviri is the best fucking mic worker in the company.

Seriously.

I also want one thing to happen with Hassan.

When he comes out and the crows is chanting "USA! USA! USA!", I want him to say "I'm from New Jersey, you morons!"
I'd love that. They're probably still chant "USA!" Though. Remember, they did it when Edge and Benoit were the faces, and the only American in the ring was Conway...

[Thriller]

I'd love that. They're probably still chant "USA!" Though. Remember, they did it when Edge and Benoit were the faces, and the only American in the ring was Conway...But Benoit is from Alanta remember :shifty:

[Innovator]

I'd love that. They're probably still chant "USA!" Though. Remember, they did it when Edge and Benoit were the faces, and the only American in the ring was Conway...That of course is if you count Jersey as a state and not a waste dump

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Benoit's a better wrestler than Angle. Angle just has more charisma.

[Sepholio]

Benoit's a better wrestler than Angle. Angle just has more charisma.

Angle outclasses Benoit in every way, imo.

[Nervous Ferret]

fuck I live in New Jersey

[The CyNick]

Gotta look at it from a business POV.

They lost the #1 babyface in the comapny in Cena, and replaced him with Chris Benoit, Benoit will NEVER sell any tickets bottom line. He's a great worker, yadda yadda, but he wont sell tickets.

In the heel category they lost Angle in favour of Orton. I think Orton has a lot of potential as a heel and could be a draw one day, but that day wont be for a while. He needs to be built back up a lot. Angle on the other hand is an established top guy, and for right now SD got shafted.

I agree that Hassan for Carlito was an even deal. Although I would say Carlito has more potential, but some people could argue that.

The other problem is that SD lost their World Title. Now they have to create a new one, and SD already had problems with credibility since they always take a back seat to RAW, but now they are creating a belt that means absolutely nothing. Thats going to be tough at the box office, especially when it comes to PPVs.

Now, I'll save LC some time and say the draft isn't over, so we have to judge next Wednesday morning as what the true outcome is. But my whole thing is that SD needed more help than RAW, and we are 60% through the draft and RAW has clearly won so far. Even if SD gets the best of the next two picks, I still dont think its enough to do what needed to be done.

[Kane Knight]

That of course is if you count Jersey as a state and not a waste dump
*rimjob*

[Kane Knight]

And Cena still gets mixed responses, even against the Undertaker. I mean, come on...Taker's one of the reasons I wonder why I watch wrestling...When 50,000 retards pop at the same time for a cripple, and the guy opposing him is getting a mixed reaction, something's wrong.

[Kane Knight]

Angle outclasses Benoit in every way, imo.
Indeed. 'Nuff said.

[PureHatred]

Angle outclasses Benoit in every way, imo.
:love:

[Just John]

^ Im with the guy above this post

[PureHatred]

Also, CyNick hit it on the head.

Using generic terms like 'cocky upstart' and 'best wrestler' in no way gives a proper comparison of what the trade actually was. Benoit and Orton are in no way equal to Cena and Angle.

SD needed more starpower. The undercard on their PPV's were jokes. After this draft, it looks like their roster took a step backwards.

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, now it's not just the undercard. :(

[What Would Kevin Do?]

They can always trade people. They could do something crazy like have one of the champions drafted to SD next week, along with like JR. And then Eric is going nuts trying to trade people to get the champ back, offering like 5 people for one champ (more logical if it's HHH). Eric says come on, I'll give you anyone you want to get him back, and Teddy says fine, takes the trade, and then gives him JR, claiming he thoughts that's who he was talking about when he said him...


Errrrr, meh.

[Nervous Ferret]

lol

[Corkscrewed]

*rimjob*
:rofl:

Don't you mean rimshot? Cuz a rimjob is something else entirely... and you didn't follow it up with a :naughty:



:p

[Innovator]

*Paul loves rimjobs*

[Lamuella]

They lost the #1 babyface in the comapny in Cena, and replaced him with Chris Benoit, Benoit will NEVER sell any tickets bottom line. He's a great worker, yadda yadda, but he wont sell tickets.


I went to Judgment Day in 2003 when it was in Charlotte.

The card was crap (lesnar/show and trips/nash main eventing. SNORE)

I didn't care. I went to see Chris Benoit. Sure, he was only there as part of a crappy 6 man tag match, but I went to see him.

he sold my ticket.

[El Santo]

Two each, and they'll take place next week when each show gets two picks.

Anyway, I gotta take it back... SD! isn't as screwed as I thought, especially with Psicosis, Super Crazy, and Juventud on the show now. If they return it to its awesome wrestling roots, that'd be pretty cool.

I mean, I read the spoilers, and I STILL marked out three times last night (which has like... never happened).

The Taker lightning bolt was the first cuz I'm a huge Taker fan and that was a fantastic camera angle.

Los Grass Cutters ( :shifty: ) cracked me up like hell... I hope they make this the cruiser stable Tajiri's yakuza should have been.

And SD! getting Hassan'd was priceless. My brother (who only knew Hassan had been drafted but not when he'd show up) was like "Hassan should interrupt the Big Show" and then

ALAYELAYELAYELAYEYAAAAAA!!!!!

Me: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

I actually marked out when JBL joined the faces in laying the Smackdown on Hassan and standing with them at the end. Face JBL vs. Hassan? I know it's racist as all hell, but it would be intriguing.

There was a fourth time I marked out, and unexpectedly, too: the appearance of MNM. I mean, yeah, ntohing special. But the entrance with the Paparazzi and the red carpet DOES work.

[Fryza]

I'd love that. They're probably still chant "USA!" Though. Remember, they did it when Edge and Benoit were the faces, and the only American in the ring was Conway...

I was at that event. :love:

SmackDown lost Angle, Carlito, and Cena. SmackDown has gained Hassan, Daviri, Orton, Benoit, Psicosis, Guerrara, and Super Crazy. They have Booker, JBL, 'Taker, Big Show, Guerrero, Rey. Haas, etc etc.

Far as I can tell, it's been a fair trade off. Cena is getting stale, and it won't take long for him to start getting ignored by the fans. Carlito is... Meh. Angle is a fair trade off for Benoit, period. Benoit > Angle in wrestling, Angle > Benoit on mic.

Hassan > most of the WWE.

From what I see, SmackDown is getting GOOD trade offs. Hassan will be priceless if they use him right (IE- Not turn him into another Kenzo or Dupree).

[The CyNick]

I went to Judgment Day in 2003 when it was in Charlotte.

The card was crap (lesnar/show and trips/nash main eventing. SNORE)

I didn't care. I went to see Chris Benoit. Sure, he was only there as part of a crappy 6 man tag match, but I went to see him.

he sold my ticket.

If you had a roster full of Chris Benoit's there would be you and 49 other people at every event.

You could then say he sold 50 tickets, but that promotion will also be out of business within months, so.

[Kane Knight]

I went to Judgment Day in 2003 when it was in Charlotte.

The card was crap (lesnar/show and trips/nash main eventing. SNORE)

I didn't care. I went to see Chris Benoit. Sure, he was only there as part of a crappy 6 man tag match, but I went to see him.

he sold my ticket.
He sold YOUR ticket.

Well okay then. I mean, if you went because of BEnoit, then he must be a huge draw.

You know honestly, there are a lot of people I would go to a show specifically to see. Doesn't mean my desire to see someone makes them a dra wof more than one ticket.

[The CyNick]

On top of that, people who post here are generally pretty big wrestling fans, my guess is that the idea of a PPV coming to your town is enough to get the people here to go, no matter who is on the card.

[tucsonspeed6]

If you had a roster full of Chris Benoit's there would be you and 49 other people at every event.

You could then say he sold 50 tickets, but that promotion will also be out of business within months, so.

Yeah, but even the most casual of wrestling fans like watching wrestling because of the wrestling. The WWE needs those workers who can put on a great match. Without them, it'd be like a crappy emo cd, everybody pouting and putting on endless promos....kinda like WCW in its latter years after all of the good wrestlers left.

So in a way, if there were NO Chris Benoit's in your roster, you couldn't sell any tickets either, and WCW kinda proved that.

[The CyNick]

Yeah, but even the most casual of wrestling fans like watching wrestling because of the wrestling. The WWE needs those workers who can put on a great match. Without them, it'd be like a crappy emo cd, everybody pouting and putting on endless promos....kinda like WCW in its latter years after all of the good wrestlers left.

So in a way, if there were NO Chris Benoit's in your roster, you couldn't sell any tickets either, and WCW kinda proved that.

Nobody worked like Benoit did during Hogan's run and they drew a ton of money. Heck, even when the WWE took off under Austin, there wasn't that many great matches. It wasn't until Benoit, Eddie and Angle came in that they started to have qaulity work up and down the card. Now, business wasn't worse because of the great wrestling, in fact they had their best year in 2000, but nobody could argue that the good wrestling brought the people to the arenas, because they were there before.

Quality wrestling is overrated, people want to see characters, the wrestling isn't really all that important.

If it was, a guy like Benoit would always be on top, because fans would go to an event, see him work, see that its superior to almost everyone else, and then crap on everyone else.


As an example, after Benoit-Angle wrestled in Boston at the Rumble, and the fans gave a standing O to Benoit, if Rock's music would have hit right after that, everyone would have went "Benoit-who?"

[Kane Knight]

CyNick's right. People would rather see entertainment than great wrestling. That's not to say people won't appreciate good wrestling. They just are more oriented towards entertainment value.

[tucsonspeed6]

Good point. I think if anything, if you want the best product possible you need both the real workhorses and the charismatic guys together. If you lose one or the other your fans are going to lose interest.

Getting back to Smackdown however, I don't think by trading Angle for Benoit is that bad. The niche that Angle held can easily be filled with the charisma of Daivari. An intelligent writer could change Big Show's gimmick to utilize his hidden charisma, Taker's still a huge draw, and JBL is still one of the best mic workers in the business.

Besides. There's still two picks left. We may still see a Rey Mysterio trade for Christian or Jericho. As long as they don't touch Taker, Guerrero, or JBL I'll still have hope for Smackdown.

[DominateR]

Daivari needs to ride his camel back out to the desert, maybe make money by selling camel rides to kids in the neighborhood or something cuz he sure as hell can't be understood by 95% of the audiences that do hear him talk in whatever language that is.

[Disturbed316]

lol, Hi Vince Russo.

[Kane Knight]

The best possible product would be a ton of people with Rock-like Charisma and Angle/Benoit-like skills.

[Corkscrewed]

i.e. Kurt Angle or Eddie Guerrero.... :shifty:

[KingofOldSchool]

Daivari needs to ride his camel back out to the desert, maybe make money by selling camel rides to kids in the neighborhood or something cuz he sure as hell can't be understood by 95% of the audiences that do hear him talk in whatever language that is.

lol

[M. Banana]

Daivari needs to ride his camel back out to the desert, maybe make money by selling camel rides to kids in the neighborhood or something cuz he sure as hell can't be understood by 95% of the audiences that do hear him talk in whatever language that is.
dumbass

[Kane Knight]

i.e. Kurt Angle or Eddie Guerrero.... :shifty:
Pretty much.

Now all we need is about a dozen more of them <s>to job to trips and end up working the highlight reel after Jericho is demoted to announcer on Heat</s>.

[Kane Knight]

Daivari needs to ride his camel back out to the desert, maybe make money by selling camel rides to kids in the neighborhood or something cuz he sure as hell can't be understood by 95% of the audiences that do hear him talk in whatever language that is.
LOLWhat?

[Corkscrewed]

It's okay. His name's Mark.



BTW, it just occurred to me that SD! is like the Oakland Athletics or the Minnesota Twins. They can't hire in the big guys, so they gotta get guys with promise and develop them. Then they lose them to the big market teams (i.e. RAW).

[Nervous Ferret]

Daivari needs to ride his camel back out to the desert, maybe make money by selling camel rides to kids in the neighborhood or something cuz he sure as hell can't be understood by 95% of the audiences that do hear him talk in whatever language that is.ROFL

[Lamuella]

If you had a roster full of Chris Benoit's there would be you and 49 other people at every event.

You could then say he sold 50 tickets, but that promotion will also be out of business within months, so.

saying so doesn't make it true.

What about him doesn't draw? He has exciting matches, people pop for him as a face and boo him as a heel. His promo skills aren't the best in the company but they're getting much better.

[Lamuella]

He sold YOUR ticket.

Well okay then. I mean, if you went because of BEnoit, then he must be a huge draw.

You know honestly, there are a lot of people I would go to a show specifically to see. Doesn't mean my desire to see someone makes them a dra wof more than one ticket.

I never said "he's a huge draw". I was refuting the fact that someone said he wasn't a draw at all.

[PureHatred]

They have Booker, JBL, 'Taker, Big Show, Guerrero, Rey. Haas, etc etc.

As of now, all those guys combined probably aren't the draw that Cena and Angle are. Show, Haas, and Booker especially are nowhere near being draws.

Far as I can tell, it's been a fair trade off. Cena is getting stale, and it won't take long for him to start getting ignored by the fans. Carlito is... Meh. Angle is a fair trade off for Benoit, period. Benoit > Angle in wrestling, Angle > Benoit on mic.

Cena is stale to who exactly? Net fans? Nearly everyone on this board has commented that in the 3 weeks hes been on Raw, Cena has cut hotter promos than anything he's done the last year on Smackdown. And when you talk about the general fan....just read the house reports and look at his merchandise sale. He's the most popular thing in the WWE and being on raw is only going to make it more so.

AngLe and Benoit are comparable AS WRESTLERS. Angle is better than Benoit in any other way imaginable you could measure a wrestler.

I'm actually stunned at people who can look at the draft up to this point and say it hasn't been lopsided. Vengeance is being headlined by three matches with main event caliber stars That last segment on Raw two weeks back was epic; even Trips was entertaining. SD this past week stuck its 5 top tier guys in the ring and it looked like a has-been convention. And then followed it up by delivering a clunker of an Eddie/Rey match.

SD needed help. Desperately. Not a debatable even trade kind of thing, but a clear cut aquisition of talent. Go ahead and say, 'wait til its done.' But up to this point theres no way to legitimately say Raw didn't win out in this draft.

[PureHatred]

The best possible product would be a ton of people with Rock-like Charisma and Angle/Benoit-like skills.

So Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero, and maybe Christopher Daniels then.

[Batsu]

And SD! getting Hassan'd was priceless. My brother (who only knew Hassan had been drafted but not when he'd show up) was like "Hassan should interrupt the Big Show" and then

ALAYELAYELAYELAYEYAAAAAA!!!!!

Me: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

LMFAO, Hassan-ing is one of my favorite things about him. The way people get riled up when that music hits....

[PureHatred]

It's okay. His name's Mark.



BTW, it just occurred to me that SD! is like the Oakland Athletics or the Minnesota Twins. They can't hire in the big guys, so they gotta get guys with promise and develop them. Then they lose them to the big market teams (i.e. RAW).

Yeah, unfortunately, these two 'teams' are owned by the same company, with the same resources, and the same available payroll.

This is more like those Nascar teams that have mutliple cars, but they constantly make the 'jobber' drivers run interference and thereby lose to their 'name' drivers.

[Loose Cannon]

Yea, like CyNick said for me, I'm really just waiting until the whole thing is over to make any critical comments. I still think Batista or Trips will switch shows.

With Cena, I don't think anybody was a fair trade for him, so it's hard to argue that. He's the top guy/draw right now and nobody is close. Maybe Batista, but it's dying.

Carlito/Hassan are the two best new up and comers. They're definately even in my book. I like CCC a bit more. He's got loads of charisma. But Hassan is great too. Oh shit, I didn't watch Smackdown. Did Daivari go too? That would totally suck for Hassab if he didn't. Daivari's mic work really helps Hassan A LOT.

Angle/Orton. I made the argument that Orton will be the top heel soon and Angle is going to just be stuck below the Championship for some time, so I think it was pretty fair. But I know we're talking right now and Orton's still got some big wins he needs first, like CyNick said.

[The CyNick]

They cheated and said Divari was a package with Hassan.

[The CyNick]

The other benefit of Orton is that he's got 20 years in the ring ahead of him, whereas Angle could be finished tomorrow.

[Danny Electric]

Daivari needs to ride his camel back out to the desert, maybe make money by selling camel rides to kids in the neighborhood or something cuz he sure as hell can't be understood by 95% of the audiences that do hear him talk in whatever language that is.

Hey inbred, your mom called, said she's pregnant with your baby.

[darkpower]

Ok, umm....when during this whole thing did people wake up and realize this when I've been saying this since the night Cena got drafted with that fucking title? SD, which I had thought should've been the better show before the draft, is GETTING SHAFTED, no questions asked.

SD really didn't suck, but they needed a bit better writing. And Friday nights are not necessarily a death sentence for the show, and I think people need to stop thinking it is. Even though it's the second least watched night of the week, that doesn't mean no one is going to watch it. I believe that the fans will follow the product regardless of what night it's on or what network it's on. And hopefully SD will be able to get some trade offs for being on Fridays, but I don't see it happening.

So instead of Vince trying to make this year the best year SD has ever had, he's already decided to say "fuck it" and send all the stars from SD over to RAW via this draft. The reason I have objected is because if Friday night is one of the two worst rated TV nights, the other being Saturday, then would you not give someone a reason to WANT to watch a Friday night show instead of just letting it fall?

And what about the SD stars, PPV buyrates, ticket sales, and merchandice? What happens to the main event picture now? SmackDown is not just a show on Thursday/Friday nights. It's part of the WWE's revenue. It's part of the paychecks, it's part of the roster that can make or break the WWE. If you send all the GOOD SD stars to RAW now, when you have until 06 to make a statement, then you're also telling the fans that they shouldn't pay their money for those PPVs, merchandice, and tickets, and thus, they start losing money before 06 even arrives, and that, in retrospect, is what ultimely can become the WWE's would-be downfall.

And what about past 06? You can't unify the rosters, as it would be just way too many stars to cram onto one show. And while the unification of the belts may seem like a good idea, look at who is in the driver seat on RAW most of the time. Triple H. Do you think he isn't going to be at least a bit in that title picture 24/7? And what about brand individuality? How would the shows have their own idenity if they are having to share the same title? This was the main problem back in 02 when the extension started, in my opinion.

So even though this draft is not over, two picks left for each show, things are not looking good for the "minor league". We can make our predictions all we want, but bottom line is, for all we know, RAW will get Eddie Guererro and Rey Mysterio while SD gets the Masterbore and Simon Dean. Hopefully I am proven wrong, because I would love to be able to see both brands succeed, and I would watch SmackDown to hear anyone else commentate other than JR and the King (I do admit, if it was those two rather than Cole and Tazz doing SD commentary, it would make SD that much worse), something tells me that Vince isn't going to do the smart thing, and instead do the stupidest thing ever.

[The CyNick]

saying so doesn't make it true.

What about him doesn't draw? He has exciting matches, people pop for him as a face and boo him as a heel. His promo skills aren't the best in the company but they're getting much better.

The average fan doesn't care about what we would consider to be great wrestling.

Talk to most people who went to WM X8 and a lot of those people would say Hogan-Rock was the greatest wrestling match of all time. If you throw in a tape to those same people of whatever is the best wrestling match is (Flair-Steamboat, Steamboat-Savage, Bret-HBK, whatever), most of them would walk out halfway through.

For whatever reason what guys like Benoit bring to the table just doesn't draw. I like it, you probably like it, but we are a small small minority. And if their goal is to grow the business again, they need people that appeal to the majority of the people, not a small minority.