HBK not happy with match at summerslam

[Dave Youell]

For many fans, the quality of effort Shawn Michaels put into his match with Hulk Hogan likely gave the impression that he was thrilled to have the opportunity to work such a match. In reality, however, negotiations with Hulk Hogan brought the RAW superstar to a point of disgust.

Because Hulk Hogan's contract called for creative control, Shawn Michaels was powerless in trying to propose anything other than a clean victory for The Hulkster. Michaels, thinking he was skilled enough in backstage politics to go head-to-head with Hogan, ignored the advice from friends that he should work out a finish prior to agreeing to the match. That failure to take friendly advice would come back to haunt Michaels, as there was no way Hogan was going to accept anything other than a win with the legdrop. Vince McMahon eventually made it clear to HBK that the match was to be done Hogan's way.

While Michaels' late suggestion for a DQ finish was not considered, the idea of running a rematch at Unforgiven was. Thinking it would give each of the wrestlers the opportunity to get a victory, Michaels gladly signed off on the idea. Hogan, however, was not interested in doing the job. Hogan's idea was to win the initial Summerslam match, and then win a steel cage rematch by crawling out the door seconds before HBK climbed out from over the top of the cage. Michaels was certainly not interested in doing the job twice, so they went back to the original plan for a single match.

Michaels' sarcastic promo this week on RAW was his way of venting frustration related to the match. The interview saw Michaels mockingly suggest that Hogan's in-ring ability was just too superior to be touched.

[CharismaInjection]

Hulk Hogan is an asshole.

[Londoner]

Even though I wouldn't of been in favour of a re-match, I hate Hogan even more for not wanting to atleast even up things abit, the fact that he wont do a job to HBK doesn't surprise me, it's just typical of a man with the ego of Hogan, what he doesn't realise is that if he didn't get the gimmick he has, he would never be where he is at today, yet he acts like he would've been, I find it hard to believe people still cheer this fucker.

[Mr. Nerfect]

He should have jobbed. Seriously. HBK is not exactly the best example of a job machine, but at least he is going to elevate Chris Masters. BTW, the whole HBK/Hogan feud I was waiting for Shawn Michaels to say "I may have pinned Shelton Benjamin, but at least I had a good match with him...".

[Hired Hitman]

Yeah, Hogan is VERY lucky to have been given the Hulk gimmick.

[JH]

hell if you had to make hulk hogan look like the greatest thing since sliced bread you would'nt be happy either

hbk made hogan fucking wrestle at summerslam and i damn well bet you the real reason hogan was'nt on raw was because he could'nt get his old ass out of bed

[The Gooch]

Pot calling kettle black. Both use politics to get their way. The only reason why I feel bad for Shawn is at least he had the talent in the ring. Shawn made Hogan look great, it is sad that only a mere few will recognize that, but that is the world of wrestling.

To address another issue, in my opinion Hogan did get over because he was handed a great gimmick. However, Terry Bolea does contribute greatly to that character. I personally don't think just anyone could have made that character as successful as it has been. I've never been a Hogan fan, but he has something special that attracts people.

[Vastardikai]

I love Karma...

[samichna]

Pot calling kettle black. Both use politics to get their way. The only reason why I feel bad for Shawn is at least he had the talent in the ring. Shawn made Hogan look great, it is sad that only a mere few will recognize that, but that is the world of wrestling.

To address another issue, in my opinion Hogan did get over because he was handed a great gimmick. However, Terry Bolea does contribute greatly to that character. I personally don't think just anyone could have made that character as successful as it has been. I've never been a Hogan fan, but he has something special that attracts people.

Well said.

Or typed, I guess. :rant:

[Pepsi Man]

hell if you had to make hulk hogan look like the greatest thing since sliced bread you would'nt be happy either

hbk made hogan fucking wrestle at summerslam and i damn well bet you the real reason hogan was'nt on raw was because he could'nt get his old ass out of bed
Yeah, it wouldn't have anything at all to do with the fact that he nor the WWE had any plans on him working beyond SummerSlam.

But anyway, I feel SO sorry for Shawn Michaels. Michaels would never use any stroke to ensure that a match finish benefitted him, especially not at the expense of his opponent.

[JH]

at first i heard the plan was for hogan to work the night after raw and then not be back for awhile but all of a sudden that changed
thats why i said what i did

[Pepsi Man]

at first i heard the plan was for hogan to work the night after raw and then not be back for awhile but all of a sudden that changed
thats why i said what i did
Conflicting reports on the internet will always have you reading different things, but most stuff I read had Hogan not appearing beyond SummerSlam.

[Vastardikai]

Yeah, it wouldn't have anything at all to do with the fact that he nor the WWE had any plans on him working beyond SummerSlam.

But anyway, I feel SO sorry for Shawn Michaels. Michaels would never use any stroke to ensure that a match finish benefitted him, especially not at the expense of his opponent.

Somewhere, Bret Hart is smiling.

and I repeat: I LOVE KARMA!

[Kane Knight]

Michaels, thinking he was skilled enough in backstage politics to go head-to-head with Hogan, ignored the advice from friends that he should work out a finish prior to agreeing to the match.

His own fucking fault.

[Kane Knight]

hell if you had to make hulk hogan look like the greatest thing since sliced bread you would'nt be happy either

hbk made hogan fucking wrestle at summerslam and i damn well bet you the real reason hogan was'nt on raw was because he could'nt get his old ass out of bed

HBK didn't make him wrestle. He made him look like a good wrestler.

[McLegend]

O well

HBK is still the man.

[Hitman84]

Somewhere, Bret Hart is smiling.

And I am too ...

[Stickman]

Obviously I didnt' know what was going on backstage involving this match. I seriously had no idea who was going to win although I predicted Hogan would because he never loses because well, he has all the stroke. Come Raw this past monday I totally felt like something was up. That promo HBK cut before Masters came out was gold. It proved that he was legitimately pissed off. I love HBK with a live mic.

[PureHatred]

Yeah, hard to feel bad for a guy who's spent his career playing the same games.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

HBK is great when it comes to mini-shoots.

My favorite is still him going off on the bad angles, ala Katie Vick with Hunter banging the "corpse" in the coffin.

Bischoff: What's wrong Shawn, does that offend you as a Chrisitian?

Shawn: No Eric, that offends me as a wrestling fan.

[Gertner]

Tough shit Shawn

[Loose Cannon]

lol, I find this hillarious given Shawn's past

[Joey Slugs]

I am trying not to feel bad for Shawn on this one (Bret Hart anyone?) but I find it funny that as soon as anyone brought up the idea of a rematch... Hogan said that he had to win that one too.

Forget Orton beating Hogan (unless Cowboy Bob gets a favor done).

The thing that bothers me is that Shawn is STILL fresh in the ring and could possibly have another title run or two left in him... What does Hogan have left to accomplish? Honestly.

[KingofOldSchool]

Bret won't be smiling since he hates both men and all.

[JTB31]

HBK in his prime didn't like to Job either but atleast he worked his ass off and made his opponent look good.You can put a wrestler over without losing.Hogan on the other hand didn't do squat in that match and made HBK look bad by having him lay on the mat for 5 minutes after getting the big boot and then wait for the vicious leg drop.lol

Make no mistake about it though, everyone knows who the better man was at Summerslam and it wasn't Hogan.See the crowd boo last night when HBK said Hogan was the better man at SS.

[Corkscrewed]

I don't really feel bad for Shawn, since this is Karma. On the other hand, Hogan's just an asshole plain and simple. I waiting for the day he gets his.

Looks like HBK got his on Sunday... or at least part of his.

[PureHatred]

Hogan will get his once his daughter grows up and turns into a Paris Hilton type useless whore who's more famous for being famous and for who she's fucking then for anything she's actually done...and then years down the road she'll go on Oprah and blame it on the way Hulk publicly humiliated her by callingher fat and lazy on their TN reality show any time she picked up a cookie.

[Innovator]

The WWE is feeling very strong about a Hogan/Austin match at Wrestlemania. If they are going to do this, I can see why Hogan beat HBK, just so Hogan doesn't appear like the jobbing old man he was back in 2002.

[#1-norm-fan]

Stuff like this really makes me wonder what kind of dirt Kurt Angle had on Hogan prior to the 2002 King of the Ring.

[Destor]

Stuff like this really makes me wonder what kind of dirt Kurt Angle had on Hogan prior to the 2002 King of the Ring.
Honestly, I think it was one of the few times Hogan actually reconized the ability of a fellow wrestler.............:rofl:, Im sorry. I didnt even beleive that bs.

[Gerard]

Aww poor little shawn, maybe he'll go and lose his smile again.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gerald.marley/New%20Folder/carefactory21160dq.jpg

:foc:

[Boondock Saint]

LOL Care Factory.

[Nark Order]

Although HBK has played some of the same games in the past I believe that he earned his sway by working his ass off and by constantly having classic match after classic match. Hogan was just selected to have the "Goldberg gimmick" of his time and never really had much special going for him except for a golden work ethic at the gym.HBK will go down in history for his golden mic skills and his unparralled athleticism while Hogan will go down in history as a living, breathing gimmick.

The fact that Hogan refused to do the job is not surprising, but it is disgusting just the same. Shawn is 5 times the performer and ten times the athlete that Hogan ever was. At least when Shawn was getting his way, he would always deliver no matter what. Even now, he puts on a great match. Hogan should've retired 5 years ago....

[Kane Knight]

I am trying not to feel bad for Shawn on this one (Bret Hart anyone?) but I find it funny that as soon as anyone brought up the idea of a rematch... Hogan said that he had to win that one too.

Forget Orton beating Hogan (unless Cowboy Bob gets a favor done).

The thing that bothers me is that Shawn is STILL fresh in the ring and could possibly have another title run or two left in him... What does Hogan have left to accomplish? Honestly.

Quick Question.

What does Michaels lose from jobbing clean to Hogan? Does he look worse to smarks, or the marks who pop for Hogan?

I'm not a fan of Hogan winning, but this doesn't really hurt much. Even if Michael won, he wouldn't be "put over" and he wouldnt'benefit from it anyway.

Michaels got what he deserved for being dumb enough to play politics with Hogan.

Hogan gets what he wants.

And we get stuck with the results, good or bad.

[Shadow]

Meh....it was an ok match from Hogan, an excellent match from Shawn. that's all there is too it.

[Fryza]

I don't feel bad for Shawn, I feel bad that the fans had to deal with Hogan winning, and his orange hair. The over-selling on Shawn's part made me gag...

[ThruTheWire]

I don't feel bad for Shawn, I feel bad that the fans had to deal with Hogan winning, and his orange hair. The over-selling on Shawn's part made me gag...

I think he was overselling on purpose... well obviosuly on purpose but I mean.. to make the point that Hogan has 'unbelievable strength' stand out more than usually, I think he was making a joke out of it..

[KayfabeMan]

Although HBK has played some of the same games in the past I believe that he earned his sway by working his ass off and by constantly having classic match after classic match. Hogan was just selected to have the "Goldberg gimmick" of his time and never really had much special going for him except for a golden work ethic at the gym. HBK will go down in history for his golden mic skills and his unparralled athleticism while Hogan will go down in history as a living, breathing gimmick.

The fact that Hogan refused to do the job is not surprising, but it is disgusting just the same. Shawn is 5 times the performer and ten times the athlete that Hogan ever was. At least when Shawn was getting his way, he would always deliver no matter what. Even now, he puts on a great match. Hogan should've retired 5 years ago....

I'd like to elaborate on this, from the other side of the table.

It's funny to hear anyone say that Shawn earned what he got. Only if earn means to cry, bitch, whine, moan and complain until someone gives in. Then he definitely earned his way. Classic matches have little to no impact on a spot on the roster; especially in the last 20 years. If they did, WWE would have never fucked Bret Hart over; and the same could be said for Savage and others.

Hogan may have had the "Goldberg" gimmick, but he also had the charisma and ability to pull it off. If just anyone could pull off the gimmick, it wouldn't matter who you put it on. It definitely does.

On the history point, HBK will go down in WWE and wrestling history (and will go down on anyone to get a push - :shifty: ). Hogan will go down in history in general, as he's instantly recognized all over the world and has been marketed on just about every type of merchandise possible for someone to be featured in / on.

[Savio]

Somewhere, Bret Hart is smiling.

and I repeat: I LOVE KARMA!Yes because it was HBKs decision to screw bret.

[Shadow]

He didn't have to go along with it. Which I belive is what Bret is so angry about.

[Destor]

HBK should have gone away with it. If bret thought it was right to go to a rival company with out putting someone over hes a bigger dick than Hogan. Any how he would have thrown the title in the trash like Alundria blaze did. Vince & HBK did what had to be done.

[James Steele]

GET THE FUCK OVER IT. Bret Hart was one of the best, but he is by no means completely fucking innocent on this deal. He should have been the bigger man and done the job.

[Destor]

GET THE FUCK OVER IT. Bret Hart was one of the best, but he is by no means completely fucking innocent on this deal. He should have been the bigger man and done the job.
Damn son dont bust a nerve, I never said the guy couldnt wrestle. And as far as get the fuck over it.....tell that to the Canadians.

[James Steele]

Canadians still aren't over Wayne Gretzky's retirement.

[Destor]

Canadians still aren't over Wayne Gretzky's retirement.
How do you get ove wayne gretzky;s retirement? Thats like getting over Micheal Jord.......Tiger Woods' retirment!

[redoneja]

Who the fuck cares? Hogan, Micheals, and Bret are all reasons why we still have WWE on our fuckin TVs. I appreciate what happens in the ring not behind the scenes. Its like worrying about how A-Rod or Barry Bonds acts in the clubhouse. I DON'T GIVE A FUCK!

My problem lies with one little incident three years ago.

King of the Ring 2002. Kurt Angle makes Hulk Hogan tap out....cleanly. Now I'm a Hogan fan, but I'm not mad because Hogan lost, I'm mad because this is never mentioned on WWE TV. If you're trying to build Angle up to be this generation's Bret Hart or Ric Flair, why not mention once or twice that he made the IMMORTAL HULK HOGAN TAP OUT!!!
GOD DAMMIT!!!!!:foc: :foc:

[Destor]

Who the fuck cares? Hogan, Micheals, and Bret are all reasons why we still have WWE on our fuckin TVs. I appreciate what happens in the ring not behind the scenes. Its like worrying about how A-Rod or Barry Bonds acts in the clubhouse. I DON'T GIVE A FUCK!

My problem lies with one little incident three years ago.

King of the Ring 2002. Kurt Angle makes Hulk Hogan tap out....cleanly. Now I'm a Hogan fan, but I'm not mad because Hogan lost, I'm mad because this is never mentioned on WWE TV. If you're trying to build Angle up to be this generation's Bret Hart or Ric Flair, why not mention once or twice that he made the IMMORTAL HULK HOGAN TAP OUT!!!
GOD DAMMIT!!!!!:foc: :foc:
I probolly watch that match once a month, in slow-mo. Hogans hand slaping the mat. AAAAAAAHHHH, memories. :\'(

[Pepsi Man]

Although HBK has played some of the same games in the past I believe that he earned his sway by working his ass off and by constantly having classic match after classic match. Hogan was just selected to have the "Goldberg gimmick" of his time and never really had much special going for him except for a golden work ethic at the gym.HBK will go down in history for his golden mic skills and his unparralled athleticism while Hogan will go down in history as a living, breathing gimmick.

The fact that Hogan refused to do the job is not surprising, but it is disgusting just the same. Shawn is 5 times the performer and ten times the athlete that Hogan ever was. At least when Shawn was getting his way, he would always deliver no matter what. Even now, he puts on a great match. Hogan should've retired 5 years ago....
Hogan wasn't just selected overnight. Hulk had success in Japan and had apparently gotten over via being in Rocky III. Say what you want about Hogan's in-ring skills, or lack thereof, but he wasn't just picked from a hat and "given the Goldberg gimmick".

Like him or not, and regardless of what's gone down in recent years, Hulk Hogan paid dues just like everyone else of that era.

[Loose Cannon]

HBK should have gone away with it. If bret thought it was right to go to a rival company with out putting someone over hes a bigger dick than Hogan. Any how he would have thrown the title in the trash like Alundria blaze did. Vince & HBK did what had to be done.

Once Again, another case of not knowing the facts. Bret said himself and I heard it again from him at Fanfest that he would of put ANYONE in the company over for the Title, except HBK. Well, he was willing to put HBK over until HBK told him straight up he would never put Bret over.

Bret even told a story Sunday that he was scheduled to face Brooklyn Brawler, who won a battle royal, for the Title eathier before or after Survivor Series and he would of had no problem dropping the belt to him. That got a chuckle out of the audience BTW.

[RP]

First of all... If the roles were reversed and HBK was the ass in this situation. Everyone would probably be dawgin him. That aside, i wanted HBK to win this match , but i dont feel sorry for his situation and i dont hate Hogan for not wanting to do the job. Thats business. HBK knows about that kind of business.

[Destor]

Once Again, another case of not knowing the facts. Bret said himself and I heard it again from him at Fanfest that he would of put ANYONE in the company over for the Title, except HBK. Well, he was willing to put HBK over until HBK told him straight up he would never put Bret over.

Bret even told a story Sunday that he was scheduled to face Brooklyn Brawler, who won a battle royal, for the Title eathier before or after Survivor Series and he would of had no problem dropping the belt to him. That got a chuckle out of the audience BTW.
I knew this. Pardon me for not beleiving everything that comes out of Brets mouth. Bret can hold any personal vendetta he wants, its not the wrestlers place to book matches (despite his creative control over his charector in the last 30 days of his contract.) If I worked at Mcdonalds I wouldnt tell my boss how to flip burgers.

[Kane Knight]

Who the fuck cares? Hogan, Micheals, and Bret are all reasons why we still have WWE on our fuckin TVs. I appreciate what happens in the ring not behind the scenes. Its like worrying about how A-Rod or Barry Bonds acts in the clubhouse. I DON'T GIVE A FUCK!

My problem lies with one little incident three years ago.

King of the Ring 2002. Kurt Angle makes Hulk Hogan tap out....cleanly. Now I'm a Hogan fan, but I'm not mad because Hogan lost, I'm mad because this is never mentioned on WWE TV. If you're trying to build Angle up to be this generation's Bret Hart or Ric Flair, why not mention once or twice that he made the IMMORTAL HULK HOGAN TAP OUT!!!
GOD DAMMIT!!!!!:foc: :foc:

Okay, two points.

One: The way A-Rod or Bonds act backstage is different because...Survey Says? Baseball isn't a staged performance!

See, there's the sticking point. Whether or not Hogan or Michaels wants to do the job, and hwo they handle themselves is more likely to directly affect what we see on TV.

Second: What do you expect? For them to book Angle and make Hogan look bad?

Which ties to #1. Would you really expect that to result in baseball?

"And now for his 50th season in a row...Pitching for the New York Yankees..."

[Pepsi Man]

I knew this. Pardon me for not beleiving everything that comes out of Brets mouth. Bret can hold any personal vendetta he wants, its not the wrestlers place to book matches (despite his creative control over his charector in the last 30 days of his contract.) If I worked at Mcdonalds I wouldnt tell my boss how to flip burgers.
Yup, because how you flipped those burgers would really affect your ability to draw a paycheck/respect elsewhere.

[Loose Cannon]

so why did you post and I quote "f bret thought it was right to go to a rival company with out putting someone over hes a bigger dick than Hogan."

Again, he was willing to put "someone" over.

And I hope you know Bret's not the only one that will tell you that. Ask most of the boys that were thier during that time. They'll tell you the same thing.

And why wouldn't you suggest to your boss how to flip burgers? If you have a better more cost saving way, hell, make a suggesstion. You know how most famous people got famous? By changing the ways things are done in thier company and suggessting new ideas. That's how the world moves ahead

[Destor]

Yup, because how you flipped those burgers would really affect your ability to draw a paycheck/respect elsewhere.
So you'd rather have Bret save face then the WWE? To me the Bret screw job saved the "Monday Night War" for the WWE. Do you really belive Bret wouldnt have thrown the belt in the trash on Nitro?

[JTB31]

What I would like to know is where was HHH in all of this??

HBK is his Kliq buddy and we all know about the backstage pull that he has.Anyways this does prove Shawn is a different person now because the old shawn would of refused to put Hogan over like that and if HBK wanted to he could of still said he is not Jobbing to Hogan and still keep his job.You think Vince would fire Shawn as over as he is with the crowd and risk him going to tna??

HBK gave in to Hogan winning cleanly because it's the dream match fans wanted to see.Hogan saying he comes back for the fans is a bunch of BS.Hogan would of refused the match if he had to job to HBK.

[Destor]

so why did you post and I quote "f bret thought it was right to go to a rival company with out putting someone over hes a bigger dick than Hogan."

Again, he was willing to put "someone" over.

And I hope you know Bret's not the only one that will tell you that. Ask most of the boys that were thier during that time. They'll tell you the same thing.

And why wouldn't you suggest to your boss how to flip burgers? If you have a better more cost saving way, hell, make a suggesstion. You know how most famous people got famous? By changing the ways things are done in thier company and suggessting new ideas. That's how the world moves ahead
He SAID he was willing. I doubt that was true. Your right about the burgers, but you've clearly never work at Mcdonalds...

[Loose Cannon]

So you'd rather have Bret save face then the WWE? To me the Bret screw job saved the "Monday Night War" for the WWE. Do you really belive Bret wouldnt have thrown the belt in the trash on Nitro?

Now you're talking about storylines, while we were talking about real life behind the scenes

[Pepsi Man]

So you'd rather have Bret save face then the WWE? To me the Bret screw job saved the "Monday Night War" for the WWE. Do you really belive Bret wouldnt have thrown the belt in the trash on Nitro?
Yes, I really believe that Bret had more respect for professional wrestling than that. Bret was still set to work WWF dates, as late as into December, if necessary, so I really don't see why Shawn using the Sharpshooter at the Survivor Series was the only way to avoid that.

You tried a comparison that doesn't work. Burger-flipping and professional wrestling are two different animals entirely, even though starting pay for both is probably roughly the same.

[Loose Cannon]

He SAID he was willing. I doubt that was true. Your right about the burgers, but you've clearly never work at Mcdonalds...

Why do you doubt that? Name me a time when Bret Hart was selfish about what he was given or who he was given to work with in the WWF? Other then Survvior Series, cause you'll probably say that.

[Destor]

Now you're talking about storylines, while we were talking about real life behind the scenes
Throwing the belt away on Nitro would have been a serious coo. WWF fans see there champ trash their belt for what he belives is the better company could have caused those fans to stop watching the WWF and turn to WCW. In my opinion justfying Vince/HBK's decision to "screw Bret," it was best for the WWE.

[Pepsi Man]

Why do you doubt that? Name me a time when Bret Hart was selfish about what he was given or who he was given to work with in the WWF? Other then Survvior Series, cause you'll probably say that.
He wouldn't put the aging Bob Backlund over cleanly at Survivor Series 1994!:mad: :mad: :mad:

























Please note that the above is completely a joke, and any truth to it is purely coincidental.

[Loose Cannon]

If you thought for 1 second Bret would of thrown the WWF Title in the trash with how much respect he had for that company, you don't know Bret at all. He talked about that very thing at Fanfest too. He said something along the lines of "Vince and guys within the WWE at the time always use the excuse that I would of went to WCW and thrown the WWF Title in the garbage. That's a bunch of bullshit because first of all, I couldn't have done that if I wanted to. He said after Madusa threw her belt in the trash, the WWF went and put a some sort of protection on the belt (forgot exactly what he said) that if he would of thrown it in the trash, he and WCW could of gotten sued for everything they had."

[Pepsi Man]

If you thought for 1 second Bret would of thrown the WWF Title in the trash with how much respect he had for that company, you don't know Bret at all. He talked about that very thing at Fanfest too. He said something along the lines of "Vince and guys within the WWE at the time always use the excuse that I would of went to WCW and thrown the WWF Title in the garbage. That's a bunch of bullshit because first of all, I couldn't have done that if I wanted to. He said after Madusa threw her belt in the trash, the WWF went and put a some sort of protection on the belt (forgot exactly what he said) that if he would of thrown it in the trash, he and WCW could of gotten sued for everything they had."
Even still, I could forgive Vince not wanting Bret to even have the title at all, leaving the WWF. I just always felt that IF Vince was SO deadset on Michaels winning, he should've never agreed to anything else with Bret.

Vince: "Bret, this is the way it is."

And if Bret didn't come out, then that'd be a forfeit, and he'd look like a pussy.

[Destor]

Why do you doubt that? Name me a time when Bret Hart was selfish about what he was given or who he was given to work with in the WWF? Other then Survvior Series, cause you'll probably say that.
I dont know bret. so I cant really jusify it when comes to him. my opinions are drawn from a generalzation (though maybe unfair) I have gathered from the wrestlers I have met or worked with. With out exception the all do the same. Say one thing to your face, turn around and tell the next guy the opposite. Wrestlers go out in front of a crowd of people and lie (or act depending on your stand) every night, in time it comes into their personal life. I have grown not to trust wrestlers, but i am willing to imagine that Bret is the one honest guy in the buisness.

[Kane Knight]

Throwing the belt away on Nitro would have been a serious coo. WWF fans see there champ trash their belt for what he belives is the better company could have caused those fans to stop watching the WWF and turn to WCW. In my opinion justfying Vince/HBK's decision to "screw Bret," it was best for the WWE.

coo http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dcoo) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (khttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/oomacr.gif)
v. cooed, coo·ing, coos
v. intr.
To utter the murmuring sound of a dove or pigeon or a sound resembling it.
To talk fondly or amorously in murmurs: <cite>The visitors cooed over the newborn baby.</cite> :D

Anyway, weren't you the guy who was claiming that we need to give Masters the benefit of the doubt?

What reason did you have specifically to believe that Bret would opt for this coup?

[Pepsi Man]

I dont know bret. so I cant really jusify it when comes to him. my opinions are drawn from a generalzation (though maybe unfair) I have gathered from the wrestlers I have met or worked with. With out exception the all do the same. Say one thing to your face, turn around and tell the next guy the opposite. Wrestlers go out in front of a crowd of people and lie (or act depending on your stand) every night, in time it comes into their personal life. I have grown not to trust wrestlers, but i am willing to imagine that Bret is the one honest guy in the buisness.
Because you've undoubtedly met a LARGE majority of famous professional wrestlers and worked with them to the extent that you were able to determine if they were talking about you behind your back or not.

That has less credibility than the current WWE tag team division.

[Kane Knight]

Even still, I could forgive Vince not wanting Bret to even have the title at all, leaving the WWF. I just always felt that IF Vince was SO deadset on Michaels winning, he should've never agreed to anything else with Bret.

Vince: "Bret, this is the way it is."

And if Bret didn't come out, then that'd be a forfeit, and he'd look like a pussy.

The funniest thing is that they complained when Austin did the same thing. Wonder where Steve learned that.

[Loose Cannon]

Even still, I could forgive Vince not wanting Bret to even have the title at all, leaving the WWF. I just always felt that IF Vince was SO deadset on Michaels winning, he should've never agreed to anything else with Bret.

Vince: "Bret, this is the way it is."

And if Bret didn't come out, then that'd be a forfeit, and he'd look like a pussy.

Yea, I agree. It was Vince's Title and I can see why Bret had to drop it. There's no question Bret NEEDED to drop the thing before going to WCW. I just don't understand Vince's reasoning at all for doing what he did at the PPV. And I hate to bring up Survivor Series for the 5,000 time on here, but I just hate when people don't have all the facts straight. And this is one of those deals where you should know all the facts out there before having an opinion on the situation.

[Kane Knight]

Because you've undoubtedly met a LARGE majority of famous professional wrestlers and worked with them to the extent that you were able to determine if they were talking about you behind your back or not.

That has less credibility than the current WWE tag team division.

Hey, you meet a lot of main eventers flipping burgers.

[Pepsi Man]

Hey, you meet a lot of main eventers flipping burgers.
At least Triple H doesn't try to tell you how long to cook the french fries.

[Kane Knight]

At least Triple H doesn't try to tell you how long to cook the french fries.

Naw. They've got a timer for that. He's busy holding down the cashiers.

[Destor]

coo http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dcoo) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (khttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/oomacr.gif)
v. cooed, coo·ing, coos
v. intr.
To utter the murmuring sound of a dove or pigeon or a sound resembling it.
To talk fondly or amorously in murmurs: <cite>The visitors cooed over the newborn baby.</cite> :D

Anyway, weren't you the guy who was claiming that we need to give Masters the benefit of the doubt?

What reason did you have specifically to believe that Bret would opt for this coup?
Thank you for correcting me. yes I was (pertaining to Masters). While watching his A&E biography "Hitman Bret Hart: Wrestling with Shadows" it showed the Hitman asking Vince to give him just one more dollar than WCW had offerd him. This led me to the notion he didnt care about WWF on the inside but the almighty dollar. By that rational I became of the opinion he would do as Blaze did and pitch the title, for the cash.

[MVP]

Just to ignore the big argument going on in this thread (everyone knows where I stand) and remark on the HBK/Hogan situation, it's so typical of HBK to immaturely vent his frustration on live TV. You think he'd handle the situation like an adult.

[Pepsi Man]

Thank you for correcting me. yes I was (pertaining to Masters). While watching his A&E biography "Hitman Bret Hart: Wrestling with Shadows" it showed the Hitman asking Vince to give him just one more dollar than WCW had offerd him. This led me to the notion he didnt care about WWF on the inside but the almighty dollar. By that rational I became of the opinion he would do as Blaze did and pitch the title, for the cash.
He wanted ONE more dollar, and then if he really wanted it, he probably could've gotten WCW to give him another ten or hundred THOUSAND dollars.

Bret really didn't want to leave the WWF, but Vince McMahon more or less asked him to, in order to save money. True story.

[Destor]

Just wandering, but did any ever wander if the whole thing was a work? Kind of like the Jerry Lawler Andy Kauffman deal? Its never set quit right with me.

[Pepsi Man]

Just to ignore the big argument going on in this thread (everyone knows where I stand) and remark on the HBK/Hogan situation, it's so typical of HBK to immaturely vent his frustration on live TV. You think he'd handle the situation like an adult.
This is the most adult Shawn's ever handled anything like this.

[Pepsi Man]

Just wandering, but did any ever wander if the whole thing was a work? Kind of like the Jerry Lawler Andy Kauffman deal? Its never set quit right with me.
Yup, it's exactly like Lawler and Kauffman.:|

[Destor]

Because you've undoubtedly met a LARGE majority of famous professional wrestlers and worked with them to the extent that you were able to determine if they were talking about you behind your back or not.

That has less credibility than the current WWE tag team division.
Look, I dint want to go hear on a wrestling forum site... but go to oldschoolwrestlers.com.go into the site, click roster, click Drago, there you should see a picture of me (provided there up.)
So yeah I've met my fair share of wrestlers.

[Pepsi Man]

Look, I dint want to go hear on a wrestling forum site... but go to oldschoolwrestlers.com.go into the site, click roster, click Drago, there you should see a picture of me (provided there up.)
So yeah I've met my fair share of wrestlers.
lmao @ that site

[PureHatred]

LC is right. destor18 this is really one of those subjects that you need to get all your facts straight before you try having an in-depth discussion.

Hart had a long term deal with the WWF. Vince went to Bret and told him basically "We're broke. We can't afford to pay you this deal. Why don't you see if the WCW can get you a contract you'd be happy with?" At this point, Bret had every legal right to force McMahon and the WWF to live up to the term or buy-out the contract. Instead, he went to the WCW and got an offer.

That whole "One dollar more" stuff was Bret saying "Here's their initial offer. Match it. Give me one dollar more. I can get more from them, but I want to stay here....here's your chance to keep me."

Vince passed, and then the Screw Job went down. Bret Hart isn't a perfect human being. And he definitely is a bitter, bitter man sometimes. But the Montreal situation isn't just about Vince and HBK protecting the WWF name or not wanting to do the job or whatever. it was about the way Vince treated one of the most loyal, hard-working men the business has ever seen and about the fact that HBK was a two faced piece of shit who buried friend and foe alike to make himself look good; before there was a Triple H glass ceiling, there was an HBK who if he had had his way would've never had to 'share the spotlight' with guys like Foley, Austin or Rocky.

Back to topic: and that's exactly why I could give two shits if the SS ending pissed him off.

[PureHatred]

Okay, two points.

One: The way A-Rod or Bonds act backstage is different because...Survey Says? Baseball isn't a staged performance!

See, there's the sticking point. Whether or not Hogan or Michaels wants to do the job, and hwo they handle themselves is more likely to directly affect what we see on TV.



Yeah...stupid to compare sports to wrestling. You can pretty much be the biggest asshole on the planet as long as you perform on the field.Or to put it this way...if the WWE were a football team, it wouldn't matter how many times Hogan went to the Pro Bowl in the 80's, he would've been cut 10 years ago.

[Aussie Skier]

I think Hogan winning was ok.

I haven't seen the match but frankly it was obvious Hogan would win IMO.

[Aussie Skier]

HBK should have gone away with it. If bret thought it was right to go to a rival company with out putting someone over hes a bigger dick than Hogan. Any how he would have thrown the title in the trash like Alundria blaze did. Vince & HBK did what had to be done.

:roll:

[McLegend]

Just to ignore the big argument going on in this thread (everyone knows where I stand) and remark on the HBK/Hogan situation, it's so typical of HBK to immaturely vent his frustration on live TV. You think he'd handle the situation like an adult.
I would rather have him handle the situation the way he did, becasue it was hilarious.

[Kane Knight]

Thank you for correcting me. yes I was (pertaining to Masters). While watching his A&E biography "Hitman Bret Hart: Wrestling with Shadows" it showed the Hitman asking Vince to give him just one more dollar than WCW had offerd him. This led me to the notion he didnt care about WWF on the inside but the almighty dollar. By that rational I became of the opinion he would do as Blaze did and pitch the title, for the cash.

Or maybe Bret was looking for some reason to stay with the WWE.

If that's the best you have to condemn him upon, a one-sided, out of context notion that he wanted even one more dollar (Really sounds like he's being greedy, asking for a DOLLAR!), then it sounds more like an excuse for prejudicial judgement. What ever happened to having to ear disrespect and hatred, all that big talk only applies to Masters, not to anyone else? My, how our high and mighty morals wither in the cold light of day.

[Kane Knight]

I would rather have him handle the situation the way he did, becasue it was hilarious.

[Destor]

Or maybe Bret was looking for some reason to stay with the WWE.

If that's the best you have to condemn him upon, a one-sided, out of context notion that he wanted even one more dollar (Really sounds like he's being greedy, asking for a DOLLAR!), then it sounds more like an excuse for prejudicial judgement. What ever happened to having to ear disrespect and hatred, all that big talk only applies to Masters, not to anyone else? My, how our high and mighty morals wither in the cold light of day.
Your focusing on the wrong parts of the story, the one dollar is not important, its the fact he left for money. If he truely was loyal he wouldnt have left when the WWF was the no. 2 company. But I dont feel like ruining yet ANOTHER thread, so im going to bow out of this aurgument. Youa ll are right, I was wrong. End of story.

[Pepsi Man]

Your focusing on the wrong parts of the story, the one dollar is not important, its the fact he left for money. If he truely was loyal he wouldnt have left when the WWF was the no. 2 company. But I dont feel like ruining yet ANOTHER thread, so im going to bow out of this aurgument. Youa ll are right, I was wrong. End of story.
No, you took that out of context. It wasn't about the fucking dollar. Vince McMahon had previously refused to pay Bret Hart the amount of money that Vince and Bret had ALREADY signed a contract for, and so Vince suggested that Bret look to WCW for a job.

Towards the end of his WWF run, Bret REALLY wanted to stay with the company, and "give me one more dollar than their offer" was his way of saying "convince me to stay...please".

Please don't try to correct the people of this forum when by all appearances, it seems as though we had researched the matter more years ago than you have right now.

[Kane Knight]

Your focusing on the wrong parts of the story, the one dollar is not important, its the fact he left for money. If he truely was loyal he wouldnt have left when the WWF was the no. 2 company. But I dont feel like ruining yet ANOTHER thread, so im going to bow out of this aurgument. Youa ll are right, I was wrong. End of story.

Except I'm not the one who's posting ignorant to the facts already stated multiple times.

[Kane Knight]

Please don't try to correct the people of this forum when by all appearances, it seems as though we had researched the matter more years ago than you have right now.


I dunno man, five seconds of A&E, plus flipping burgers with WWE main eventers is pretty convincing evidence.

[Pepsi Man]

I dunno man, five seconds of A&E, plus flipping burgers with WWE main eventers is pretty convincing evidence.
Good point.

[Destor]

No, you took that out of context. It wasn't about the fucking dollar. Vince McMahon had previously refused to pay Bret Hart the amount of money that Vince and Bret had ALREADY signed a contract for, and so Vince suggested that Bret look to WCW for a job.

Towards the end of his WWF run, Bret REALLY wanted to stay with the company, and "give me one more dollar than their offer" was his way of saying "convince me to stay...please".

Please don't try to correct the people of this forum when by all appearances, it seems as though we had researched the matter more years ago than you have right now.
Man you guys dont know when you've won do you? YOU ARE RIGHT.... cant that be enough for you? Or are you that inclined to beat a dead horse straight though ground?

[Kane Knight]

Your focusing on the wrong parts of the story, the one dollar is not important, its the fact he left for money. If he truely was loyal he wouldnt have left when the WWF was the no. 2 company. But I dont feel like ruining yet ANOTHER thread, so im going to bow out of this aurgument. Youa ll are right, I was wrong. End of story.

Except you're still arguing, making this statement sound like "I'm right, but I'll let you have it."

When you stop arguing, you STOP ARGUING. You don't tell people they're missing the point, then devote a couple of the sentences at the end towards concession, because it doesn't sound legit.

[LK]

Can't be bothered with the whole Montreal incident. I don't really see what he's bothered about. In a few years no one will care about who won and lost that match but instead people will be talking about how Shawn carried Hogan to a very good, if not great match which is really what wrestling is all about. The quality of the work from each wrestler.

[Kane Knight]

Canadians will still care. They're gonna be chanting "You Screwed Bret" in 2097.

All part of that innovative creativity Canadian fans posess.