Official Bound For Glory thread--10/23/05

[Jaton]

http://www.tnawrestling.com/boundforglory/images/bfgart_01sponsor.gif




<table class="stroke_black" align="center" bgcolor="#f9f7fb" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="1" width="441"> <tbody><tr><td bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top" width="433">NWA World Heavyweight Title Match
Jeff Jarrett (c) vs. Kevin Nash
Special Guest Referee: Tito Ortiz
</td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top">X Division Championship Ironman Match
"The Phenomenal" AJ Styles (c) vs. "The Fallen Angel" Christopher Daniels
</td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top">NWA World Tag Team Title Match
America's Most Wanted (c) vs. The Naturals
</td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top">The Ultimate X Returns
Matt Bentley vs. Chris Sabin vs. Petey Williams
Winner Becomes The X Division #1 Contender
</td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top">Monster's Ball 2
Abyss with James Mitchell vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Rhino vs. Sabu
</td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top">International Showdown
Samoa Joe vs. Jushin "Thunder" Liger
</td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top">X Division Four Way:
“The Original Playa From The Himalaya” Sonjay Dutt vs. Austin Aries
vs. Alex Shelley vs. Roderick Strong
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="ppv_schedule" bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top">Lance Hoyt vs. “The Alpha Male” Monty Brown
</td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e1e1e1" valign="top"> 3Live Kru vs. Team Canada

</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[TerranRich]

Where the hell are you on AIM, ass?

[TerranRich]

Also, you didn't capture the entire banner ;P

[Jaton]

Oh wow, I just noticed that.

[Destor]

What do you guys think they will show on the first half hour?

[The Answer]

I have no doubt in my mind that the Samoa Joe vs Liger match will steal the show

[thecc]

they're supposed to put the x-division fourway match on the free half-hour. Sounds good if you ask me.

[Jaton]

And this match is incredibly good.

[Fox]

holy fucking shit. that four-way X-Division match was out of this world. All four guys have impressed the hell out of me, and it's only the first match of the night, and it was part of the FREE SHOW!

god damn. I've never seen anything like that. ever.

[McLegend]

Who won

[Jaton]

The Original Playa from the Himilaya

[PullMyFinger]

lmao @ AJ Styles comparing his rivalry with Daniels to Georgia and my uni Florida. Hahahaha, it's true, we'll never leave Georgia alone and same with them...always going to be at each other's throats.

[McLegend]

I hear the Joe/Liger match was incredibly short. :(

[redoneja]

It was relatively short but it was still decent, not the greatest, but I've seen worse.

[RemyRed]

That promo was all I needed. "Say screw Monty Jarrett! Come on say it!". I am sold. GIVE THE TITLE TO BROWN!!!

[RemyRed]

The man is even putting on a great match with Hoyt. Plz give this man the title.

[RemyRed]

POOOOOOOOUNCE! Where the hell are you guys?

[RemyRed]

I hear the Joe/Liger match was incredibly short. :(
It was as long as it needed to be.

[RemyRed]

Ok no one else here, so welcome to RemyRed's PBP.

Team Canada vs 3LK up now. And yes, Kip James and Konnan are still feuding.

[RemyRed]

I can call this match for the most part without even seeing it. Konnan gets some offense, he tags in BG for the double team, then BG gets his ass beat for 3 minutes, makes the hot tag to Konnan, Konnan beats everyone up, throws his shoes at them, tags in Ron, Ron does some things, D'Amore interferes and gives Eric Young the Hockey stick, Young whacks the legal man with it, gets the close 3 count, match goes on for a little bit, Kip James helps 3LK out, 3LK picks up the win, Konnan bitches to Kip.

[Pete]

That promo was all I needed. "Say screw Monty Jarrett! Come on say it!". I am sold. GIVE THE TITLE TO BROWN!!!


who's monty jarret?

[RemyRed]

And the WWE legal team is preparing papers for the entire impact zone as a New Age Outlaws chant breaks out.

[RemyRed]

who's monty jarret?
It was like, Say screw Monty, Jarrett!. He was daring Jarrett to say screw Monty.

[RemyRed]

Well I was wrong, Canada picked up the win when Bobby Roode breaks a hockey stick over BG's face.

[Destor]

You're opinion matters.

[RemyRed]

Kip James with a steel chair to all the Team Canada members. w00t!

[RemyRed]

CUts to Shane Douglas and Larry Zybysko. SHane demanding an answer. Larry looking stressed and saying he's waiting for a call from upper management, then telling him to give him some time and he'll get back to him.

[RemyRed]

Video package for the Ultimate X match up now, which means that Michael Shane vs. The Guy That Does The Flip Piledriver vs. Hail Sabin is up next.

[Fox]

Okay, so far:

Fourway X-Division Match: 8/10

Joe vs. Liger: 6/10 (too short)

Shark Boy/Siaki/Apollo vs. Diamonds in the Rough: 5/10

Hoyt vs. Brown: 6/10

Team Canada vs. 3LK: 6/10


More to come. So far, this has been a solid PPV. Ultimate X up next!

[RemyRed]

Scott D'Amore looks like a cubicle worker.

[RemyRed]

And here comes the only man out of the 3 with an actual personality, Matt Bentley. Editorial: Michael Shane is not his name, I erred, he is known as Matt Bentley.

[Destor]

Petey Williams.

[The Greater Power]

Bound For Glory Spoilers (highlight to read)


The plan right now to replace the Jeff Jarrett/Kevin Nash title match on for tonight's TNA PPV is to do a 10 man gauntlet match with the winner facing Jeff Jarrett for the NWA Title at the end of show.


A Polynesian dance troupe is backstage and is scheduled to come out with Samoa Joe tonight. His match with Jushin Liger is scheduled to open the PPV.


Jeff Hardy has a major spot planned for the Monster's Ball match.

[RemyRed]

Traci seducin' Petey while Bentley comes oh so close to grabbing the X.

[RemyRed]

Bound For Glory Spoilers (highlight to read)


The plan right now to replace the Jeff Jarrett/Kevin Nash title match on for tonight's TNA PPV is to do a 10 man gauntlet match with the winner facing Jeff Jarrett for the NWA Title at the end of show.


A Polynesian dance troupe is backstage and is scheduled to come out with Samoa Joe tonight. His match with Jushin Liger is scheduled to open the PPV.


Jeff Hardy has a major spot planned for the Monster's Ball match.
Sounds good to me. :y:

[McLegend]

Bound For Glory Spoilers (highlight to read)


The plan right now to replace the Jeff Jarrett/Kevin Nash title match on for tonight's TNA PPV is to do a 10 man gauntlet match with the winner facing Jeff Jarrett for the NWA Title at the end of show.


A Polynesian dance troupe is backstage and is scheduled to come out with Samoa Joe tonight. His match with Jushin Liger is scheduled to open the PPV.


Jeff Hardy has a major spot planned for the Monster's Ball match.
Source?

[RemyRed]

Brutal legdrop from on the apron from Petey to Sabin.

[RemyRed]

All 3 men are down. TNA put out too many triple threat matches lately, this one seems....I dunno but it isn't really holding my attention.

[RemyRed]

Powerbomb from the Ultimate X cable....just like in all the Ultimate X matches.

[Destor]

Sticky. :cool:

[The Greater Power]

Source?

WrestlingExposed

http://www.wrestlingexposed.com/headlines/10872.shtml

[RemyRed]

<- Ratings

[RemyRed]

The red X falls. lmao

[RemyRed]

Petey Williams bitching at the ref about not being able to just pick the X up off the floor and win. The red X is hung up again. LMAO

[RemyRed]

The red X falls again, Petey catches it and wins. Well a bit unconventional, but it works.

[The Greater Power]

So has the opener been the best so far?

[Destor]

Ultimate botch match.

[Loose Cannon]

Just so you guys know, The Dudleys won't be on the show tonight because they are in Japan right now.

[RemyRed]

Matt Bentley walks off pissed. Petey Williams shrugs his shoulders in the ring and smirks in a "Meh, whatever I gotta do I'll do" way. <3

[RemyRed]

Tag Team championship rematch between The Naturals and AMW up.

[RemyRed]

AMW has a new theme, and they're accompanied by Gail Kim.

[RemyRed]

I guess it's safe to assume that if AMW retains than Jarrett will definately retain.....then again who am I kidding, even if AMW loses Jarrett will retain, and even if he doesn't retain he'll regain it at some unadvertised event.

[RemyRed]

The match is all over the place. AMW has the upper hand right now.

[Fox]

Ultimate X: 7/10

Great opening and some great spots, but the ending really fucked everything up, not to mention the first falling of the X. Hard to believe that they can't figure out a good way to keep that fucking thing up there without it falling down in the middle of the match.

Tag title match is really uninteresting to me for some reason.

[RemyRed]

Blonde Natural in the ring cleaning house.

[RemyRed]

AMW WILL retain.

[RemyRed]

Bigger AMW guy broke a bottle over the blonde Natural's head. The brunette Natural is handcuffed to the barricade, AMW wins.

[RemyRed]

The referee's in TNA are booked t6 look extremely stupid, unless this match was a "Handcuffs allowed" match.

[RemyRed]

Awesome. The Monster's Ball is next :love:. Slater, Madman, and Triple A are all going down (C-Fed reference).

[Loose Cannon]

The referee's in TNA are booked t6 look extremely stupid, unless this match was a "Handcuffs allowed" match.

well did you see Impact last night. Jarret crawled in right in front of the ref and took out one of the Naturals leg as the ref was looking right at him. jesus christ

[Destor]

Rhyno for the block Chuck.

[RemyRed]

So wait, did they Rhino out of the box for the pre-show, and then let him go back in the box? Whatever.

[RemyRed]

well did you see Impact last night. Jarret crawled in right in front of the ref and took out one of the Naturals leg as the ref was looking right at him. jesus christ
lol Oh God. Nah I forget to watch on Saturday's I watch it on Mondays though.

[RemyRed]

Jeff Hardy got a pop? He didn't get booed at all? :love:

[RemyRed]

Annoying ass Abyss chants start.

[RemyRed]

Monster's Ball has been an awesome match so far.

[RemyRed]

Poetry in motion spot with Sabu and Jeff was great. I wouldn't mind seeing them become a permanent tag team.

[RemyRed]

They paired off again, Jeff and Abyss fighting on the entranceway, Sabu and Rhino fighting it out outside the ring. Sabu puts Rhink through a chair, Hardy climbing the entranceway.

[RemyRed]

HARDY NAILS A LOOOOOOONG ASS SWANTON BOMB ON ABYSS. Long as in distant.

[RemyRed]

RHYNO NAILD A PILEDRIVER FROM THE MIDDLE ROPE ON HARDY AND WINS.

[RemyRed]

Awesome match. Guaranteed it'll be the selling point of the DVD.

[RemyRed]

Zbysko announces the 10 man battle royal for the title shot tonight.

[Destor]

Rhyno for the win Chuck.

[RemyRed]

Jarrett complaining that he doesn't like being screwed, and that he'll never be screwed again. LOL

[Fox]

well did you see Impact last night. Jarret crawled in right in front of the ref and took out one of the Naturals leg as the ref was looking right at him. jesus christ

From my understanding, there are technically "no rules" in TNA, much like ECW. But different from ECW, the rules are enforced, but when the ref can do nothing about it (the handcuffs), the match must go on.


AMW vs. Naturals: 5/10

Rhino vs. Sabu vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Abyss: 7/10 (holy shit @ Hardy's spot)

[RemyRed]

There are rules in TNA, they just lazily throw them out the window a lot.

[RemyRed]

Ironman II coming.

[RemyRed]

Let's go Chris.

[Loose Cannon]

From my understanding, there are technically "no rules" in TNA, much like ECW. But different from ECW, the rules are enforced, but when the ref can do nothing about it (the handcuffs), the match must go on.

So there are no rules, but the rules are enforced?

[RemyRed]

13 minutes left, no pins scored.

[The Answer]

Man, this TNA PPV makes them look so amateurish I mean look at how Petey won :wtf: . Than the AMW match ends in a win for them though one natural is handcuffed(ref looks at him does nothing). To many botchs :(

[RemyRed]

5 minutes left. No scores yet.

[RemyRed]

AJ scores the pin with a second to spare.

[The Answer]

AJ scores the pin with a second to spare.

Styles Clash?

[redoneja]

Yep

[redoneja]

People in the 10 Man Gauntlet:
Samoa Joe
Ron Killings


After a 2 minute period, the first entrant comes in, then after every 60 seconds a new person comes in. Like a poor man's Royal Rumble.

[RemyRed]

Ron Killings teasing Samoa Joe.

[RemyRed]

Next entrant: Sabu

[RemyRed]

Next Entrant: Lance Hoyt

[RemyRed]

Lance Hoyt messin everyone up.

[RemyRed]

Next Entrant: Abyss (ugh, more chants)

[RemyRed]

Samoa Joe/Abyss staredown. Crowd goes nuts.

[RemyRed]

Hardy is in.

[RP]

OMFG CHRIS JERICHO IN TNA HOLY FUCKING SHISTA!

[RemyRed]

Monty Brown in now.

[RemyRed]

POOOOOUNCE! Brown and Hardy are eliminated. :nono:

[RemyRed]

Rhino in.

[redoneja]

Brown completely botched his elimination. LMFAO

[RemyRed]

Rhino took out Hoyt.

[RemyRed]

Kip James out, Raven is next in I'll bet.

[RemyRed]

Famouser to Abyss. Kip James looking good in the ring.

[RemyRed]

AJ Styles is the next entrant. :o

[RemyRed]

Goldenboy. Zzzzz.

[RemyRed]

Abyss takes out Kip.

[RemyRed]

Samoa Joe eliminates Killings.

[RemyRed]

Abyss took out Joe and AJ, Rhino takes out Abyss.

[RemyRed]

Rhino vs. Double J up next.

[RemyRed]

What the hell is up with the booking? No Raven? They put in AJ Styles, and for nothing, he didn't even set up a potential feud. Common TNA booking tonight folks.

[RemyRed]

And Jarrett comes out with a coffin and is beating up Rhino.

[Destor]

Dustyt leaves and the booking gets worse. Thats a shocker.

[RemyRed]

Crowd is booing. Unanimously.

[Destor]

OMFG CHRIS JERICHO IN TNA HOLY FUCKING SHISTA!Pffft

[Loose Cannon]

HAHAHAHA

Fucking Kevin Nash

[RemyRed]

GOOOORE! GOOOORE to the guitar!

[RemyRed]

Rhino won the championship!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?

[RemyRed]

WOW!

[RemyRed]

The man-beast is your new NWA Heavyweight Champion. Jarrett and AMW beatin the hell outta him now.

[RemyRed]

Huge brawl breaking out right now.

[RemyRed]

Planet Jarrett and Team Canada beating up the 3 Live Kru and Rhino. Looks like Jarrett is puttin Rhino in the casket.

[Loose Cannon]

ROFL WHAT?

what the shit is that

[Skippord]

Rhino Won seriously?

[Destor]

RHYNO! RHYNO! RHYNO IS THE CHAMPIO|N! BAWGAWD! RHYNO!

[RemyRed]

Team 3D comes in and beats the hell outta Planet Jarrett and Canada. Rhino out of the coffin, cleaning house with everyone.

[Loose Cannon]

TNA is a joke

[RemyRed]

Nice Face ending. I liked it. The Man-Beast is the champion folks. This has been a RemyRed play by play thread. (c)2005

[Loose Cannon]

Well not TNA, but thier World Title seen

[Destor]

And LC said the Dudleys wouldn't show.

[redoneja]

I must say this. When TNA advertises a 3 hour PPV, at least they don't end it 20 minutes early like WWE has had a bad habit of doing. I know it may seem stingy of me, but those 20 minutes could be used to extend each undercard match a few minutes.

[Nervous Ferret]

LOL wtff

[Batsu]

That's odd booking there, but I think that goes to show you anyone can win it in TNA. At least Jarrett doesn't have the title.

[RemyRed]

lol Madman.

[Nervous Ferret]

ROFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[Jaton]

Yeah, why would anyone want to bitch about Rhino's title win? It shows that they're at least not THAT dependant on the typical formula.

[RemyRed]

Not complaining but it was obvious this was all patched together with tape at the last minute.

[Fox]

So there are no rules, but the rules are enforced?

There are rules, and they are ENFORCED (i.e. the referee telling someone to put down a weapon, or yelling at someone on the apron, etc) - but there are no disqualifications - thus, no "real" RULES.

I didn't think I'd have to spell it out, but there you are.

[Loose Cannon]

And LC said the Dudleys wouldn't show.

that's what Fritz from BTR said :mad: He's always the man at kowing things

Anyway, what did that do long term wise? TNA has just switched there World Title 3 times in like 2 months. They "hot shotted" this just to please people watchng the show. Not a good idea. Never works. Now you've wasted a HUGE Title win from one of TNA's young guys, you put the belt on a guy that's not remotely a star at all and you lost a lot of cred to the Belt.

But hey, nobody saw that coming so it's great, right?

[6to1]

Not complaining but it was obvious this was all patched together with tape at the last minute.
well they had too with nass geting hurt again i wonder if jeff was going to job to nash.

[Loose Cannon]

There are rules, and they are ENFORCED (i.e. the referee telling someone to put down a weapon, or yelling at someone on the apron, etc) - but there are no disqualifications - thus, no "real" RULES.

I didn't think I'd have to spell it out, but there you are.

so why do guys put weapons down if there are no DQ's? That makes zero sense

[The Greater Power]

Wasn't this supposed to be TNA's big WrestleMania-like PPV?

This was just one huge massive joke.

[Loose Cannon]

I wish CyNick was here. He would piss all over that shit.

[The Show Off]

that's what Fritz from BTR said :mad: He's always the man at kowing things

Anyway, what did that do long term wise? TNA has just switched there World Title 3 times in like 2 months. They "hot shotted" this just to please people watchng the show. Not a good idea. Never works. Now you've wasted a HUGE Title win from one of TNA's young guys, you put the belt on a guy that's not remotely a star at all and you lost a lot of cred to the Belt.

But hey, nobody saw that coming so it's great, right?

Rhino's not a star?

When they brought him in they booked him as a star.

His first TNA Pay Per View was the main event.

He just beat 2 guys built as TNA main eventers in Hardy and Abyss.

Not to mention he's a former ECW WORLD Champion.

So how is he not REMOTLEY a star?

I mean I agree with you that Jarrett should have won the match at all, and patch working a championship win isn't a good idea. But let's not go crazy Rhino in the TNA world is a viable World Heavyweight Champion.

[Destor]

that's what Fritz from BTR said :mad: He's always the man at kowing things

Anyway, what did that do long term wise? TNA has just switched there World Title 3 times in like 2 months. They "hot shotted" this just to please people watchng the show. Not a good idea. Never works. Now you've wasted a HUGE Title win from one of TNA's young guys, you put the belt on a guy that's not remotely a star at all and you lost a lot of cred to the Belt.

But hey, nobody saw that coming so it's great, right?
Why ya bitching at me? I didn't say it was a good thing. The booking has no long term direction, and in the long term TNA will fail just as soon as the new car smell wheres off for the casual viewer.

[RP]

Nash didnt belong in this Main Event. He's old and done. Atleast Hogan can draw cheering crowds. Nash is just a peice of crap.

[Loose Cannon]

LOL, your "He's a Former ECW Champion" line just lost you the argument right there. The company was down the tubes by the time he won the belt anyway

^To Show Off

[Fox]

Exactly what would you have done to make the situation any better?

The main eventer facing the World Champion is injured two days before the show. Kevin Nash, as a former WCW and WWF World Champion, was apparently credible enough to win the belt, but without him, TNA had no choice but to make some kind of a decision.

If not Rhino, who else? There is no one else with enough credibility to even be called the World Champion at this juncture in TNA's arrival to the main stream - Raven is being set up for a run down the road, AJ Styles is the X Division champion, Jeff Hardy couldn't carry the belt, and Monty Brown and Lance Hoyt just aren't over enough yet.

The only other route they could have taken was to allow Jeff Jarrett to walk out of Bound For Glory with the World Title intact. That would be like Hulk Hogan and Mr.T jobbing for Roddy Piper and Paul Orndorff at WrestleMania - they're trying to start a reputation for BFG as their own biggest show of the year - and they needed a happy ending.

Like I said, what would you have done differently?

[Loose Cannon]

Why ya bitching at me? I didn't say it was a good thing. The booking has no long term direction, and in the long term TNA will fail just as soon as the new car smell wheres off for the casual viewer.

I wasn't bitching at you. I just didn't feel like doing two posts

[Fox]

LOL, you're "He's a Former ECW Champion" line just lost you the argument right there. The company was down the tubes by the time he won the belt anyway

^To Show Off

Yeah, since ECW never meant anything to anybody.

[Nervous Ferret]

So what are we all wearing tonight?

[Fox]

so why do guys put weapons down if there are no DQ's? That makes zero sense

They usually don't, as you may have noticed if you actually paid attention. Just like the referee could do nothing to unlock Andy whats-his-face from the gaurd rail during the tag team match.

[RemyRed]

Exactly what would you have done to make the situation any better?

The main eventer facing the World Champion is injured two days before the show. Kevin Nash, as a former WCW and WWF World Champion, was apparently credible enough to win the belt, but without him, TNA had no choice but to make some kind of a decision.

If not Rhino, who else? There is no one else with enough credibility to even be called the World Champion at this juncture in TNA's arrival to the main stream - Raven is being set up for a run down the road, AJ Styles is the X Division champion, Jeff Hardy couldn't carry the belt, and Monty Brown and Lance Hoyt just aren't over enough yet.

The only other route they could have taken was to allow Jeff Jarrett to walk out of Bound For Glory with the World Title intact. That would be like Hulk Hogan and Mr.T jobbing for Roddy Piper and Paul Orndorff at WrestleMania - they're trying to start a reputation for BFG as their own biggest show of the year - and they needed a happy ending.

Like I said, what would you have done differently?
Monty Brown was the one to put it on tonight.

[Nervous Ferret]

So theoretically you could get naked, cover yourself with whipped-cream, snd start to violate the ring post and you wouldn't get DQed?

Man, that is intense.

[PullMyFinger]

You know...ah forget it...I don't even know where to begin.

I fucking hate that smark crowd though. Everyone is cheered. WHO IS A HEEL??!

I guess they are going somewhere with a Rhino/Raven feud.

[RemyRed]

And the rules in TNA are stupid.

[James Steele]

BAH GAWD! BAH GAWD! BAH GAWD! BAH GAWD! BAH GAWD!

[RemyRed]

And the retards enter.

[RemyRed]

86 posts here. This was my show tonight. :cool:

[Loose Cannon]

Exactly what would you have done to make the situation any better?

The main eventer facing the World Champion is injured two days before the show. Kevin Nash, as a former WCW and WWF World Champion, was apparently credible enough to win the belt, but without him, TNA had no choice but to make some kind of a decision.

If not Rhino, who else? There is no one else with enough credibility to even be called the World Champion at this juncture in TNA's arrival to the main stream - Raven is being set up for a run down the road, AJ Styles is the X Division champion, Jeff Hardy couldn't carry the belt, and Monty Brown and Lance Hoyt just aren't over enough yet.

The only other route they could have taken was to allow Jeff Jarrett to walk out of Bound For Glory with the World Title intact. That would be like Hulk Hogan and Mr.T jobbing for Roddy Piper and Paul Orndorff at WrestleMania - they're trying to start a reputation for BFG as their own biggest show of the year - and they needed a happy ending.

Like I said, what would you have done differently?


Let's not compare Wrestlemania to a TNA PPV. Cause I'm sure nobody other then hardcore TNA fans would of realized this was BIG DEAL.

I'm almost positive JJ would of retained here setting up JJ/Raven at the next PPV, you know, the storyline they've actually been pushing. But that's all fucked now.

Meltzer is saying what I was saying about them not wanting to shit on the fans that ordered and came to the show because of Nash not being able to wrestle, so they did a surprise ending. I get that, but 'hot shotting" shit never works. And if they were putting the Title on somebody, why in the fuck didn't it go on Raven. It goes to Rhino, a guy who's remebered by most fans for.....well nothing really. He jobbed a lot on WWE TV I guess.

They had Styles, They had Joe, They had Monty. But it goes on Rhino. Yea, he'll sure put people in seats.

Like I said, stupid short term move for TNA and I swear if JJ wins it back real quick, I'm just gonna LMAO at this.

[Fox]

Monty Brown was the one to put it on tonight.

Oh yeah, I know I want a guy who fucking sniffs people to be my champion. Fuck that. He needs to drop some of the more animalistic traits to his gimmick if you ask me. Brown is not credible enough yet.

[PullMyFinger]

I've stated time and time again here's what I hate about TNA...

-That 6 sided ring...I HATE IT!
-The refs never see shit!...its all a crash site it seems
-I love spots...but don't over do them.
-Too fast.

[PullMyFinger]

Let's not compare Wrestlemania to a TNA PPV. Cause I'm sure nobody other then hardcore TNA fans would of realized this was BIG DEAL.

I'm almost positive JJ would of retained here setting up JJ/Raven at the next PPV, you know, the storyline they've actually been pushing. But that's all fucked now.

Meltzer is saying what I was saying about them not wanting to shit on the fans that ordered and came to the show because of Nash not being able to wrestle, so they did a surprise ending. I get that, but 'hot shotting" shit never works. And if they were putting the Title on somebody, why in the fuck didn't it go on Raven. It goes to Rhino, a guy who's remebered by most fans for.....well nothing really. He jobbed a lot on WWE TV I guess.

They had Styles, They had Joe, They had Monty. But it goes on Rhino. Yea, he'll sure put people in seats.

Like I said, stupid short term move for TNA and I swear if JJ wins it back real quick, I'm just gonna LMAO at this.
lmao @ hardcore TNA fan

Seriously, go to TNAWrestling.com right now...all their fans will talk about how it's the greatest PPV ever and smokes anything WWE has ever done.

[Loose Cannon]

Yeah, since ECW never meant anything to anybody.

Oh it did, to a very very very little minority. Were you surprised the buyrate for the One Night Stand got a pretty low number?

[Loose Cannon]

Oh yeah, I know I want a guy who fucking sniffs people to be my champion. Fuck that. He needs to drop some of the more animalistic traits to his gimmick if you ask me. Brown is not credible enough yet.

Didn't I tell you before to stop looking at wrestling through "YOUR EYES" Monty is an ex pro football player, is known by people outside wrestling, has charisma to cut a promo, is over with the crowd and not just the smarks and has looked rather strong in TNA; The Only place he's BEEN. He's one of the few guys that's over that's a homegrown talent.

[Fox]

Let's not compare Wrestlemania to a TNA PPV. Cause I'm sure nobody other then hardcore TNA fans would of realized this was BIG DEAL.

I'm almost positive JJ would of retained here setting up JJ/Raven at the next PPV, you know, the storyline they've actually been pushing. But that's all fucked now.

Meltzer is saying what I was saying about them not wanting to shit on the fans that ordered and came to the show because of Nash not being able to wrestle, so they did a surprise ending. I get that, but 'hot shotting" shit never works. And if they were putting the Title on somebody, why in the fuck didn't it go on Raven. It goes to Rhino, a guy who's remebered by most fans for.....well nothing really. He jobbed a lot on WWE TV I guess.

They had Styles, They had Joe, They had Monty. But it goes on Rhino. Yea, he'll sure put people in seats.

Like I said, stupid short term move for TNA and I swear if JJ wins it back real quick, I'm just gonna LMAO at this.

Anyone who has watched an episode of Impact, or even anyone who ordered the PPV and heard the words "this is the super bowl of TNA" could have figured out it was the "BIG DEAL" PPV. They've made it pretty clear that this is the show they want to push the most - you don't need to be a "Hardcore TNA fan," as you put it, to understand that. You merely need ears and a working brain.

Actually, the primary angle they've recently been pushing is the arrival of Team 3D against Jarrett and AMW. In fact, I don't believe Raven has even been on Impact since the inception on Spike TV. But why scrutinize?

I agree, a Raven/Jarrett rematch is definitely in the works down the road, which is why it would have killed everything they've got going for them to have Raven/Jarrett in such a rushed fashion. I suppose they could have had the match, had Raven lose, done the whole coffin bit and had the same ending with 3D, but it would have made Raven look weak, thus, hurting the idea of a Raven/Jarrett match in the near future.

You didn't answer my question. What would you have done differently?

[PullMyFinger]

I'm with LC on this...a lot of the net fans just see shit from their eyes. Like if you go to the TNAWrestling.com board...its all a bunch of smarks that propose shitty ideas that will make TNA collapse within a year.

Case: One fan stated that TNA should drop storyline and that it's stupid.
Case: One fan said it should only cater to internet fans and ROH fans.
Case: Some mark came in and said TNA should get Brock Lesnar...all the net fans laughed at him and said he has no talent...TNA has wrestlers ten times better than him in... (one of those x division wrestlers that just go by their names).

People need to view things in the eyes of a casual fan.

[Loose Cannon]

Yes, Raven HAS been on Impact. Doing an Angle where he is "chasing" the Title. He was screwed out of the Title when JJ win it.

I actually never heard once them saying it was their "Superbowl show" I don't really know how you can have "Big Deal" shows when you're not even that Big of a Deal to begin with

And I would of had JJ retain. Simple as that. Build to eathier Raven or one of your young guys getting the Title down the road.

[Loose Cannon]

I'm with LC on this...a lot of the net fans just see shit from their eyes. Like if you go to the TNAWrestling.com board...its all a bunch of smarks that propose shitty ideas that will make TNA collapse within a year.

Case: One fan stated that TNA should drop storyline and that it's stupid.
Case: One fan said it should only cater to internet fans and ROH fans.
Case: Some mark came in and said TNA should get Brock Lesnar...all the net fans laughed at him and said he has no talent...TNA has wrestlers ten times better than him in... (one of those x division wrestlers that just go by their names).

People need to view things in the eyes of a casual fan.

LOL. Ignorance is Bliss

[Fox]

Oh it did, to a very very very little minority. Were you surprised the buyrate for the One Night Stand got a pretty low number?

Wrestling fans in general are quite a minority in the first place.

The influence ECW had on WWF and WCW back in the late 90's is enough, on it's own, to show the importance of ECW to professional wrestling. Not to mention the immense sales for THE RISE AND FALL OF ECW, nor the contributions of Steve Austin, Rob Van Dam, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Rey Mysterio, Dean Malenko, Raven, Chris Jericho, Jerry Lynn, Super Crazy, Tajiri, and the new NWA World Heavyweight Champion, Rhino - all of whom made their names and got their foot in the door through ECW.

Don't underestimate the importance of ECW on the landscape of wrestling today.

[PureHatred]

Exactly what would you have done to make the situation any better?

The main eventer facing the World Champion is injured two days before the show. Kevin Nash, as a former WCW and WWF World Champion, was apparently credible enough to win the belt, but without him, TNA had no choice but to make some kind of a decision.

If not Rhino, who else? There is no one else with enough credibility to even be called the World Champion at this juncture in TNA's arrival to the main stream - Raven is being set up for a run down the road, AJ Styles is the X Division champion, Jeff Hardy couldn't carry the belt, and Monty Brown and Lance Hoyt just aren't over enough yet.

The only other route they could have taken was to allow Jeff Jarrett to walk out of Bound For Glory with the World Title intact. That would be like Hulk Hogan and Mr.T jobbing for Roddy Piper and Paul Orndorff at WrestleMania - they're trying to start a reputation for BFG as their own biggest show of the year - and they needed a happy ending.

Like I said, what would you have done differently?

Rhino stopped being treated as a credible main eventer the day after he arrived. He;s been firmly entrenched in the midcard. And, hasn't't he also been basically a heel, feuding with Sabu and Hardy?

There was no legit reason to take the strap off JJ. The best thing TNA has ever done was the Raven/JJ feud, and it looked as if they were headed in that direction again, and now they basically delivered a surprise ending which satisfied a tiny minority of TNA fans but also prorbably screwd up their stoylines for the next month or so, along with the main event for their next PPV.

[Fox]

Didn't I tell you before to stop looking at wrestling through "YOUR EYES" Monty is an ex pro football player, is known by people outside wrestling, has charisma to cut a promo, is over with the crowd and not just the smarks and has looked rather strong in TNA; The Only place he's BEEN. He's one of the few guys that's over that's a homegrown talent.

Simply put: Rhino is more over.

[Destor]

They called Bound for Glory their SuperBowl last night on Impact LC.

[Fox]

And I would of had JJ retain. Simple as that. Build to eathier Raven or one of your young guys getting the Title down the road.

And pissing off every single person who ordered the PPV, sending them home unhappy with the main event, and possibly hurting the odds of those fans ordering next months PPV, or tuning into Impact this Saturday.

Horrible, horrible business decision.

[Loose Cannon]

Wrestling fans in general are quite a minority in the first place.

What does this have to do with anything? We are discussing wrestling fans as a whole. And out of that whole, most people didn't watch nor pay attention to ECW. Especially in 1999, which is what I was arguing in the first place and then you took the arguement to argue the whole ECW



The influence ECW had on WWF and WCW back in the late 90's is enough, on it's own, to show the importance of ECW to professional wrestling. Not to mention the immense sales for THE RISE AND FALL OF ECW, nor the contributions of Steve Austin, Rob Van Dam, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Rey Mysterio, Dean Malenko, Raven, Chris Jericho, Jerry Lynn, Super Crazy, Tajiri, and the new NWA World Heavyweight Champion, Rhino - all of whom made their names and got their foot in the door through ECW.

Don't underestimate the importance of ECW on the landscape of wrestling today.

I never said it wasn't "influential" All I was saying with my comment towards Rhino being an ECW Champion that it's not something to brag about, especially when nobody was even watchng in at the time. But again, you took the arguement to argue ECW as a whole again. When did I talk about ECW and it's contributions to wrestling? I never even went there. I said very few people watched and they did. And spoke about Rhino's title reign.

[Fox]

Rhino stopped being treated as a credible main eventer the day after he arrived. He;s been firmly entrenched in the midcard. And, hasn't't he also been basically a heel, feuding with Sabu and Hardy?

There was no legit reason to take the strap off JJ. The best thing TNA has ever done was the Raven/JJ feud, and it looked as if they were headed in that direction again, and now they basically delivered a surprise ending which satisfied a tiny minority of TNA fans but also prorbably screwd up their stoylines for the next month or so, along with the main event for their next PPV.

When the main eventer of a PPV is suddenly injured, drastic and, in some people's eyes, radical decisions must be made. In tonight's case, it was the decision to put the World Title on Rhino.

In some ways, this could be considered a good thing for TNA. Rhino is the new champion - something they obviously did not have in the books - but they do have a 2-hour primetime special coming up in the next month. The next step is obvious. Rhino vs. Jeff Jarrett for the World Title in the main event. Jarrett wins the belt again, Rhino moves on to another feud, and the Raven/Jarrett feud continues.

Not only does this generate more interest with a main event title match on TV, but it will create a more entertaining title match main event by having a belt switch.

[loopydate]

Yea, he'll sure put people in seats.

Let's not forget what happened the last time those words were said regarding a title change.

Honestly, though, putting it on Rhino made some sense to me. We all know Jarrett won't be allowed to be without the gold for long, so he'll win it back at whatever-their-next-PPV-is. But a surprise title change will get people talking.

Any casual fan who didn't order tonight's PPV after thinking long and hard about it will be thinking "I didn't order the show because I didn't really care about Diesel and J-E-double-F J-A-double-R-E-double-T. Wait...who won the title? Huh. Kinda wish I'd seen that."

Rhino put on a good show tonight from what I've heard. The Monster's Ball match was put together well and got an awesome reaction from the crowd. The guy who wins that match is going to come off looking like a million bucks. Any one of those guys would have been a viable #1 contender in those fans' eyes, and he's the one who beat 'em all in the most brutal match TNA has. He beat Abyss twice tonight!

Yes, he jobbed in WWE. But, honestly, who hasn't (besides UT, Hogan, Austin, and HHH)? They could have brought in Chris Jericho, and we'd all be going nuts. But Jericho was jobbed just as bad as Rhino, and he did it in a much more high-profile manner.

Now Raven has even more to complain about. Not only was he screwed by AMW at the BCW show, now the Championship Committee doesn't even put him in the gauntlet? I don't think it has to be Raven vs. Jarrett for this storyline to continue. It's Raven vs. Zybysko. It's Raven vs. TNA. It's Raven vs. the world. What about Raven, right?

I, for one, can't wait until Impact to see how this all plays out.

[PureHatred]

Wrestling fans in general are quite a minority in the first place.

The influence ECW had on WWF and WCW back in the late 90's is enough, on it's own, to show the importance of ECW to professional wrestling. Not to mention the immense sales for THE RISE AND FALL OF ECW, nor the contributions of Steve Austin, Rob Van Dam, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Rey Mysterio, Dean Malenko, Raven, Chris Jericho, Jerry Lynn, Super Crazy, Tajiri, and the new NWA World Heavyweight Champion, Rhino - all of whom made their names and got their foot in the door through ECW.

Don't underestimate the importance of ECW on the landscape of wrestling today.

Not to sound like a kiss ass, but are you seriously trying to kick knowledge to Loose Cannon?

This has nothing to do with ECW or its contribution to the evolution of professional wrestling. This has to do with the fact that Rhino (who got over in ECW while it was on its very last days and should never even be mentioned in the same sentence as guys like Shane Douglas, Taz, Sabu, RVD, etc) wasn;t that over in the WWE, came over and got "OMG! WE STOLE A GUY FROM VINCE" pops for a month or so, and is now getting very lukewarm responses from TNA crowds. Two weeks ago on Impact, when all four Monsters Ball competitors were in the ring, Rhino was getting the l;east response.

Taking the belt was a bad move, and to comound it they picked the least over 'main eventer' they have in the company. (this could of course have been another brilliant plott by JJ to somehow show the bookers how much they need to keep the belt on him at all times)

[Loose Cannon]

Simply put: Rhino is more over.

Are you seeing a trend that nobody is agreeing with you? How is Rhino more over? Meltzer always says people who watch TNA love Monty Brown with a passion. Some casual guys know Monty Brown from being an ex-football player. HUGE in wrestling. Think Goldberg. Monty has been showcased in a lot of the past Impact's doing promos, doing quick sqash matches and the crowd eats it up. And Rhino, well he's just there.

[Destor]

And pissing off every single person who ordered the PPV, sending them home unhappy with the main event, and possibly hurting the odds of those fans ordering next months PPV, or tuning into Impact this Saturday.

Horrible, horrible business decision.
So heels should never win, as it is a bad business decision?

[Loose Cannon]

In some ways, this could be considered a good thing for TNA. Rhino is the new champion - something they obviously did not have in the books - but they do have a 2-hour primetime special coming up in the next month. The next step is obvious. Rhino vs. Jeff Jarrett for the World Title in the main event. Jarrett wins the belt again, Rhino moves on to another feud, and the Raven/Jarrett feud continues.

WTFFFFFFFFFF? Switch the Belt again? Do you want like Zero Cred for this Title or what. Do you know anything about making things "meaningful" in wrestling. This is like WCW 1999 booking right here. Just keep surprising people and keep switching Titles. Nobody will mind

[Fox]

What does this have to do with anything? We are discussing wrestling fans as a whole. And out of that whole, most people didn't watch nor pay attention to ECW. Especially in 1999, which is what I was arguing in the first place and then you took the arguement to argue the whole ECW.

I never said it wasn't "influential" All I was saying with my comment towards Rhino being an ECW Champion that it's not something to brag about, especially when nobody was even watchng in at the time. But again, you took the arguement to argue ECW as a whole again. When did I talk about ECW and it's contributions to wrestling? I never even went there. I said very few people watched and they did. And spoke about Rhino's title reign.

Your previous quote:

LOL, you're "He's a Former ECW Champion" line just lost you the argument right there.

Suggests that you are demeaning the importance of ECW as a whole. You suggest that to be a former ECW champion means nothing, and does not instill upon a wrestler a certain amount of credibility - to be precise, the amount of credibility neccesary to hold the NWA World Title at this point in time.

Nobody was watching at the time? I was watching at the time. Maybe to some ignorance is okay: not knowing who held what title at what time, nor why their qualifications are what they are. But to those of us who do know that Rhino is a former ECW World Champion, it does give him credibility, so do not demean the importance of ECW.

[PureHatred]

Let's not forget what happened the last time those words were said regarding a title change.

Honestly, though, putting it on Rhino made some sense to me. We all know Jarrett won't be allowed to be without the gold for long, so he'll win it back at whatever-their-next-PPV-is. But a surprise title change will get people talking.

Any casual fan who didn't order tonight's PPV after thinking long and hard about it will be thinking "I didn't order the show because I didn't really care about Diesel and J-E-double-F J-A-double-R-E-double-T. Wait...who won the title? Huh. Kinda wish I'd seen that."

Rhino put on a good show tonight from what I've heard. The Monster's Ball match was put together well and got an awesome reaction from the crowd. The guy who wins that match is going to come off looking like a million bucks. Any one of those guys would have been a viable #1 contender in those fans' eyes, and he's the one who beat 'em all in the most brutal match TNA has. He beat Abyss twice tonight!

Yes, he jobbed in WWE. But, honestly, who hasn't (besides UT, Hogan, Austin, and HHH)? They could have brought in Chris Jericho, and we'd all be going nuts. But Jericho was jobbed just as bad as Rhino, and he did it in a much more high-profile manner.

Now Raven has even more to complain about. Not only was he screwed by AMW at the BCW show, now the Championship Committee doesn't even put him in the gauntlet? I don't think it has to be Raven vs. Jarrett for this storyline to continue. It's Raven vs. Zybysko. It's Raven vs. TNA. It's Raven vs. the world. What about Raven, right?

I, for one, can't wait until Impact to see how this all plays out.


In that way, I can see the positives. And I don't really watch Impact for the World Title scene anyway, So I agree that I want to see how it plays out.

And Fox's point about the possibility of a title change on the 2 Hour Special is a valid one.

And I love the idea that loopy put out about Raven vs The World and I hope TNA picks up on it.

I think I mainly totally reject the idea that JJ retaining would've sent the viewers and ticket buyers home unhappy. I still believe the best decision would've been to leave the belt on JJ and to go from there.

[Fox]

So heels should never win, as it is a bad business decision?

How assinine.

For a heel to walk out of the "biggest show of the year," after defeating a man who was NOT billed to face him, and won the chance in some half-assed gauntlet match only minutes before, would be a horrible, horrible business decision.

There was no momentum building up toward a Jeff Jarrett victory. Rhino was bleeding before his encounter with JJ even began - there would be absolutely NO drama in a JJ victory. A Team 3D run-in afterwards would have made it more tolerable, but not enough to send the fans home happy.

[Jaton]

Not to mention, LC, you say to look at things from the casuals eyes. Would it not aggrivate casuals AND smarks alike for Jarrett to have won? I mean, Nash was supposed to be in the main event. So, the fans were expecting Jarrett to lose to him with Tito being the ref, more than likely. TNA wasn't able to deliver Nash, so they had Jarrett job to someone else. Casuals are happy, the TNA fans are happy.

For long term storylines, something in that match caught my eye. Jarrett had Rhino pinned after that first guitar shot and Tito's hand hit for 3, yet Rhino had kicked out slightly before. I could see them building on that to get Jarrett the title back, and then move on to Jarrett/Raven.


But, I don't claim to be an authority on it. I know you're much more wise about these things than I am.

[PureHatred]

So heels should never win, as it is a bad business decision?

Exactly. That's why Ric Flair's 23,456,169 wins in NWA/WCW main events were such bad ideas.

[Jaton]

Does suck that it was so rushed, and so obvious.

[loopydate]

WTFFFFFFFFFF? Switch the Belt again? Do you want like Zero Cred for this Title or what. Do you know anything about making things "meaningful" in wrestling. This is like WCW 1999 booking right here. Just keep surprising people and keep switching Titles. Nobody will mind

I'm seriously not trying to be contrary here, but...

In 1999, still in the middle of the perfect nothing-was-wrong-with-it-and-we-should-all-go-back-to-it (not a dig at LC, just at a lot of people on this board) Attitude Era, there were eleven WWF Title changes (Mankind lost to Rock who lost to Mankind, then Rock, Austin, UT, Austin, Mankind, HHH, Vince, HHH, and Big Show).

Frequent title changes aren't necessarily a bad thing. Yes, they usually are, but there are always exceptions to every rule. Odds are, TNA will fuck this up, because they usually do. But just because they're hotshotting the title doesn't mean that the title has zero credibility. It doesn't have any to the casual fan anyway, so what's the harm in seeing what sticks in its "mainstream" infancy?

[Fox]

WTFFFFFFFFFF? Switch the Belt again? Do you want like Zero Cred for this Title or what. Do you know anything about making things "meaningful" in wrestling. This is like WCW 1999 booking right here. Just keep surprising people and keep switching Titles. Nobody will mind

Then what exactly would you suggest? Keep the belt on Rhino for an elongated amount of time? You're the one who said he doesn't have the credibility to be the champion - and to a certain extent, I agree - he shouldn't be champion, Jeff Jarrett should.

But under the circumstances coursing from the events that took place over the weekend (namely, Nash's injury and the quick decision for the BFG main event), Rhino IS the champion for the purpose of making tonight's main event mean something.

This DOES NOT MEAN that he should KEEP the title for a long period of time, and the best thing to do would be to have him the lose the title on a stage where there is a good chance that a lot of people will be watching (the primetime special in November).

Seriously, the NWA Title doesn't mean that much anyways. TNA is just getting off the ground floor. This series of title switches won't hurt the title's credibility. It makes Jarrett look like even more of a cheater heel (by winning the title twice, both times by unfair means), it makes Rhino look stronger by being a former NWA Champion and losing the title by crook, and it builds more momentum toward a Raven/Jarrett feud, IF they do it correctly.

[Destor]

Exactly. That's why Ric Flair's 23,456,169 wins in NWA/WCW main events were such bad ideas.
I wasn't saying I think its a bad idea to have heels win, Fox had yet to give a reason why Jarret shouldn't retained the title, other than the heel shouldn't win the big show. Which is retarded.

[PureHatred]

You can get away with hot-shotting a belt in the middle of a feud with both ugys having an equal reputation. Like Triple H and Rocky with the IC belt.

But if Rhino were to lose the title at the next big free TV event, as suggested, it would definitely allow JJ.Raven to conitnue, but it would as though the company were just correcting a mistake: like when Ronnie Garvin lost the NWA title back to Ric Flair in his first defense.

[Loose Cannon]

Let's not forget what happened the last time those words were said regarding a title change.

JJ's segments have been getting high numbers on Impact, so from what I've been seeing, people want to watch him. And the babyface champion has a bigger responsibility of putting people in the seats and making people care because he's suppossed to be everyone's hero and the guy people look up to. But this is TNA, where there are no heels or babyfaces.

Honestly, though, putting it on Rhino made some sense to me. We all know Jarrett won't be allowed to be without the gold for long, so he'll win it back at whatever-their-next-PPV-is. But a surprise title change will get people talking.

Any casual fan who didn't order tonight's PPV after thinking long and hard about it will be thinking "I didn't order the show because I didn't really care about Diesel and J-E-double-F J-A-double-R-E-double-T. Wait...who won the title? Huh. Kinda wish I'd seen that.

Rhino put on a good show tonight from what I've heard. The Monster's Ball match was put together well and got an awesome reaction from the crowd. The guy who wins that match is going to come off looking like a million bucks. Any one of those guys would have been a viable #1 contender in those fans' eyes, and he's the one who beat 'em all in the most brutal match TNA has. He beat Abyss twice tonight!

Yes, he jobbed in WWE. But, honestly, who hasn't (besides UT, Hogan, Austin, and HHH)? They could have brought in Chris Jericho, and we'd all be going nuts. But Jericho was jobbed just as bad as Rhino, and he did it in a much more high-profile manner.

Rhino was jobbing on low profile matches to guys like Bradshaw. He doesn't have promo skills, he lacks charisma, and really sin't anything special. He was never a big deal at all in WWE, the place where it usually matters. Yea, guys like Jericho jobbed, but Jericho actually DREW money, was a HUGE deal, is high profile, can cut a great promo, has charisma, is known outside wrestling and has won a shit load of Titles for WWE and WCW. Theres' the Difference

Now Raven has even more to complain about. Not only was he screwed by AMW at the BCW show, now the Championship Committee doesn't even put him in the gauntlet? I don't think it has to be Raven vs. Jarrett for this storyline to continue. It's Raven vs. Zybysko. It's Raven vs. TNA. It's Raven vs. the world. What about Raven, right?

I, for one, can't wait until Impact to see how this all plays out.

Raven isn't the guy TNA needs to be going against the world for them. There's a reason they put the Title on him while they didn't have a show on the air. Just irritates me that they could of given JJ a credible win over someone tonight, could of made him look like a strong champ, but now they wasted that with a quick victory over him by Rhino.

[PureHatred]

I wasn't saying I think its a bad idea to have heels win, Fox had yet to give a reason why Jarret shouldn't retained the title, other than the heel shouldn't win the big show. Which is retarded.

I was actually being overly facetious in order to further illustrate your point.

[loopydate]

Does it matter who has the title as long as they're booked strongly? We all know Jarrett's going to get the belt back anyway. If Rhino can run with what they've given him, what's the big deal? So Jarrett didn't look like a strong champion. I hate to break it to you, he's never looked like a strong champion, and he'll never look like a strong champion. Rhino has a shot. A remote one, but he has it. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt until I'm given a good reason to think otherwise.

[Destor]

Dont to that with morons. We don't get it. (PH)

[Loose Cannon]

Your previous quote:



Suggests that you are demeaning the importance of ECW as a whole. You suggest that to be a former ECW champion means nothing, and does not instill upon a wrestler a certain amount of credibility - to be precise, the amount of credibility neccesary to hold the NWA World Title at this point in time.

Nobody was watching at the time? I was watching at the time. Maybe to some ignorance is okay: not knowing who held what title at what time, nor why their qualifications are what they are. But to those of us who do know that Rhino is a former ECW World Champion, it does give him credibility, so do not demean the importance of ECW.

It does mean nothing today. Face it, most fans could give two shits if so and so was an ECW Champion today. Go ask some WWE fan, who's never watched TNA or ECW and see if he knows that Rhino was an ECW Champion. You'll find that those are the majority of wrestling fans today

[Destor]

Its just like asking a WWE fan if they knew Jerry Lawler held the AWA title. Probably not. ^^^

[Loose Cannon]

Not to mention, LC, you say to look at things from the casuals eyes. Would it not aggrivate casuals AND smarks alike for Jarrett to have won? I mean, Nash was supposed to be in the main event. So, the fans were expecting Jarrett to lose to him with Tito being the ref, more than likely. TNA wasn't able to deliver Nash, so they had Jarrett job to someone else. Casuals are happy, the TNA fans are happy.

For long term storylines, something in that match caught my eye. Jarrett had Rhino pinned after that first guitar shot and Tito's hand hit for 3, yet Rhino had kicked out slightly before. I could see them building on that to get Jarrett the title back, and then move on to Jarrett/Raven.


But, I don't claim to be an authority on it. I know you're much more wise about these things than I am.

Yes, but we don't know for sure whether Nash was suppossed to win. Meltzer or somebody will know soon though.

But look: Nash is a guy that most casual fans love. They loved him in WCW and he has held WCW and a WWF World Title before. He's an alright champ to have. I still think he was going to lose, but to give it to Rhino? Seriously guys, RHINO? Does this guy scream "Big Player" to the wrestling world? He's a lifetime mid-carder is most people's eyes and I can just see people laughing at home at the thought of him carrying the NWA World Title. He's never been proven and to hold a Title like that is a big wtf?

[PureHatred]

Its just like asking a WWE fan if they knew Jerry Lawler held the AWA title. Probably not. ^^^

I'm going to be honest. I hated everything I've read about Memphis wrestling that didn't involve either the Midnight Express or the Rock n Roll Express, and from the matches I've seen from his prime, Jerry lawler is one of the single most overrated performers ever.

Continue the TNA debate. I'm hoping for another reasonable, optimistic comment by loopy, followed by scads of unabated smarkish negativity from everyone else. .

[Mr. JL]

I think TNA needs to handle this new situation very delicately. This is how I would set it up.

I suggest 'claiming' that Rhino has reinjured his broken neck and will be unable to defend his title. They should build up his THREE big wins, and start setting up that he is the MAN and how he won the title with a broken neck or whatever. Then have Rhino should cut an classy emotional promo, and tell everyone in the back that he is setting up a tournament to crown the new champion.

Set up a big tournament for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship with obviously Jeff Jarrett V. Raven being in the finals match with Raven winning cleanly. This way, it makes the title the focus and also brings together the big Jarrett-Raven II match.

The downside is having to keep Rhino off the show, but still, it creates a ready made storyline when he "recovers" from his injuries.
---------------------
It won't happen but I believe it is the best, and most intriging way to do it from this point.

[loopydate]

LC, you keep forgetting that the alternative is Jeff Jarrett, who was last seen by most fans as:

In WWE - Losing to Chyna
In WCW - Holding the title in the last throes of a dying promotion.

[Fox]

It does mean nothing today. Face it, most fans could give two shits if so and so was an ECW Champion today. Go ask some WWE fan, who's never watched TNA or ECW and see if he knows that Rhino was an ECW Champion. You'll find that those are the majority of wrestling fans today

And I repeat:

Maybe to some ignorance is okay: not knowing who held what title at what time, nor why their qualifications are what they are. But to those of us who do know that Rhino is a former ECW World Champion, it does give him credibility, so do not demean the importance of ECW.

I have found, in my experience, that fans who only watch WWE and have never seen ECW (or TNA, I guess; it's relatively new) are idiot marks.

Besides, what you just said is completely illogical. If someone has never seen TNA, then why do they care if Rhino is the champion in the first place?

[McLegend]

Damnit Somebody talk about the 30 min Ironman match.

Was it better then the first?

[PureHatred]

LC, you keep forgetting that the alternative is Jeff Jarrett, who was last seen by most fans as:

In WWE - Losing to Chyna
In WCW - Holding the title in the last throes of a dying promotion.

Rhino

In WWE - Losing his job to a potted plant
In ECW - Holding the title in the last throes of a dying promotion

[Fox]

Yes, but we don't know for sure whether Nash was suppossed to win. Meltzer or somebody will know soon though.

But look: Nash is a guy that most casual fans love. They loved him in WCW and he has held WCW and a WWF World Title before. He's an alright champ to have. I still think he was going to lose, but to give it to Rhino? Seriously guys, RHINO? Does this guy scream "Big Player" to the wrestling world? He's a lifetime mid-carder is most people's eyes and I can just see people laughing at home at the thought of him carrying the NWA World Title. He's never been proven and to hold a Title like that is a big wtf?

Kevin Nash? Loved? Maybe you don't remember the last time he was on TV; a certain little feud with a man named Triple H that did absolutely nothing for either of them, any fan anywhere, or the ratings? Ring a bell?


Once again, I do not think you are fully grasping the situation of what happened tonight. We may never know for sure what the original plan for the main event was (no matter what Dave fucking Meltzer has to say about it). They NEEDED someone for Jarrett to wrestle, and at this point in time, you STILL have yet to name another person who would have done a better job tonight than Rhino did.

Monty Brown? What a fucking joke.

[Loose Cannon]

I'm seriously not trying to be contrary here, but...

In 1999, still in the middle of the perfect nothing-was-wrong-with-it-and-we-should-all-go-back-to-it (not a dig at LC, just at a lot of people on this board) Attitude Era, there were eleven WWF Title changes (Mankind lost to Rock who lost to Mankind, then Rock, Austin, UT, Austin, Mankind, HHH, Vince, HHH, and Big Show).

Frequent title changes aren't necessarily a bad thing. Yes, they usually are, but there are always exceptions to every rule. Odds are, TNA will fuck this up, because they usually do. But just because they're hotshotting the title doesn't mean that the title has zero credibility. It doesn't have any to the casual fan anyway, so what's the harm in seeing what sticks in its "mainstream" infancy?

Like I said, WCW was doing the same thing. You want to know why it worked for the WWE? Because it had Interesting Storylines and Credible Wrestlers who were actually drawing loads of money. But what did that do long-term to that Title. It really fucked up the credibility, didn't it? Before long, that Title just became a prop and it's just now started to gain some of that credibility again.

With WCW, they were booking moronic storylines, doing changes at the worst of times and doing them when they meant nothing. Even a match like Halftime Heat meant something to a lot of people. WCW was just moronic most of the time.

[Fox]

Rhino

In WWE - Losing his job to a potted plant
In ECW - Holding the title in the last throes of a dying promotion

A potted plant? really? :rofl:

[McLegend]

Kevin Nash? Loved? Maybe you don't remember the last time he was on TV; a certain little feud with a man named Triple H that did absolutely nothing for either of them, any fan anywhere, or the ratings? Ring a bell?


Once again, I do not think you are fully grasping the situation of what happened tonight. We may never know for sure what the original plan for the main event was (no matter what Dave fucking Meltzer has to say about it). They NEEDED someone for Jarrett to wrestle, and at this point in time, you STILL have yet to name another person who would have done a better job tonight than Rhino did.

Monty Brown? What a fucking joke.

Actually the last time Nash was on TV was against Jarret in TNA earlier this year.

Also Monty Brown is great

sorry to nitpick

[Destor]

I'm going to be honest. I hated everything I've read about Memphis wrestling that didn't involve either the Midnight Express or the Rock n Roll Express, and from the matches I've seen from his prime, Jerry lawler is one of the single most overrated performers ever.

Continue the TNA debate. I'm hoping for another reasonable, optimistic comment by loopy, followed by scads of unabated smarkish negativity from everyone else. .
Milk dud for an avy? Dick. :'(

[Loose Cannon]

LC, you keep forgetting that the alternative is Jeff Jarrett, who was last seen by most fans as:

In WWE - Losing to Chyna
In WCW - Holding the title in the last throes of a dying promotion.

JJ has been built like a god in TNA. TNA talks about him like he's a god. It's all about perception in the moment. And with Jarret, he gets talked about so much and is used in so many segments, that it gives him a shit load of credibility.

Rhino DOES NOT gets the spotlight that Jarret gets. He's just some ordinary guy in TNA. And he comes out of nowhere and just wins thier World Title. Don't get that.

[Fox]

Damnit Somebody talk about the 30 min Ironman match.

Was it better then the first?

It's hard to say which was better, as both of them were brilliant.

AJ Styles took some serious bumps tonight, and his left leg had a massive welt on it from this harsh fall onto the ring steps. He also took a back suplex from the apron to the concrete, which left him clutching his purpled back for the rest of the match.

Daniels and Styles were both incredibly on tonight, putting forth a great contest with lots of intensity and action. The ending could have been done better, but AJ was noticably hurt, and the last second Styles Clash was cool anyways. A great match; I'd give it 8.5/10.

[loopydate]

Forgot to comment on this earlier:

Rhino was jobbing on low profile matches to guys like Bradshaw. He doesn't have promo skills, he lacks charisma, and really sin't anything special. He was never a big deal at all in WWE, the place where it usually matters. Yea, guys like Jericho jobbed, but Jericho actually DREW money, was a HUGE deal, is high profile, can cut a great promo, has charisma, is known outside wrestling and has won a shit load of Titles for WWE and WCW. Theres' the Difference

Here's the difference as I see it.

Yes, Rhyno lost to lowcarders his entire career, but how many casual fans pay attention to those matches in the first place? The lowcard matches, unless they're involving divas or...divas, usually are met with apathy from the crowd, and they don't really pay any attention to who was in them. (See: Bradshaw turning from beer-drinking poker-playing protection-runner to city-slicker limo-riding millionaire overnight and nobody but us even noticing)

Fans watch the main events. They pay attention to the main events. When they watched WCW, they saw Jeff Jarrett in the main event and they saw the promotion die. They saw him win the title from David Arquette in one match and with help from two crooked guest officials in a second.

Neither of these guys makes for a credible main-eventer in the eyes of a casual fan, but most casual fans will have forgotten that Rhino used to wrestle on Heat. They won't have forgotten that Jarrett carried on a top-tier feud with...Master P. They won't have forgotten that Jarrett couldn't win the belt on his own (and still can't) OR pin a woman.

[Fox]

Actually the last time Nash was on TV was against Jarret in TNA earlier this year.

Also Monty Brown is great

sorry to nitpick

I meant TV that people were watching.

[PureHatred]

A potted plant? really? :rofl:

Spazzed out at a hotel. Destroyed a fancy potted plant in the lobby . Fired days later.

[Fox]

Rhino was jobbing on low profile matches to guys like Bradshaw. He doesn't have promo skills, he lacks charisma, and really sin't anything special. He was never a big deal at all in WWE, the place where it usually matters. Yea, guys like Jericho jobbed, but Jericho actually DREW money, was a HUGE deal, is high profile, can cut a great promo, has charisma, is known outside wrestling and has won a shit load of Titles for WWE and WCW. Theres' the Difference

Personally, I put no stock in what WWE does with any given wrestler. Look at all the talent they've wasted over the years. They don't know shit.

[PureHatred]

Milk dud for an avy? Dick. :'(

I know its Lashley. But seriously, it looks like a Milk Dud with a set of those Mr Potato head features. :yes:

[Loose Cannon]

And I repeat:



I have found, in my experience, that fans who only watch WWE and have never seen ECW (or TNA, I guess; it's relatively new) are idiot marks.

Besides, what you just said is completely illogical. If someone has never seen TNA, then why do they care if Rhino is the champion in the first place?

My fucking god. Just for curiosity, how do you feel about John Cena?

The idiot marks seem to love him right? The idiot marks are the ones shelling out the $$ to buy tickets to see him and buy his merchendise, right? Seems like the idiot marks are the same people who make stars out of people.

Your second comment: EXACTLY. You just hit it on the head. Why would they care about Rhino being champion. Who is Rhino? Why should I care about him? He's never done anything to merrit a World Title. Unless you don't want those idiot marks caring, right?

[loopydate]

Rhino

In WWE - Losing his job to a potted plant

Yeah, but I defy you to find me a casual fan that knows about that.

In ECW - Holding the title in the last throes of a dying promotion

There's a difference between being the last ECW Champion in a promotion that less than 10% of the wrestling audience was watching to begin with and being one of the last WCW Champions which was, just two years earlier, the biggest wrestling promotion in the world.

[Fox]

No, my point was, if they don't watch TNA, they don't know he's champion, therefore, it makes no difference.

[Loose Cannon]

Personally, I put no stock in what WWE does with any given wrestler. Look at all the talent they've wasted over the years. They don't know shit.

ROFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Yea, you just lost ALL credibility you had left here. They don't know shit, yet they are like what....a Billion Dollar company or something like that. But they don't know shit.

[Fox]

Besides, what you just said is completely illogical.

Your second comment: EXACTLY. You just hit it on the head.

[Loose Cannon]

No, my point was, if they don't watch TNA, they don't know he's champion, therefore, it makes no difference.

So you don't even want them watching TNA? OK

[PureHatred]

LC and Fox are looking at this from two totally different viewpoints; one as a hardcore wrestling fan, and one as a booker and how they should/wqould be trying to make money.

Rhino seriously has not been treated as a main eventer on TNA. I know that part of it is that they were building up JJ/Nash, so there was no reason to build Rhino up for a title shot; this was just a last second decisison. But still...

So basically the question became whether it made more sense to put the belt on a guy who has only been on TV in a passing manner in the last month, who had almost zero heat headed into the PPv or to keep the belt on JJ, TNA's most established commodity.

I would've let JJ retain.

[Fox]

ROFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Yea, you just lost ALL credibility you had left here. They don't know shit, yet they are like what....a Billion Dollar company or something like that. But they don't know shit.

Oh no. I'd better go drink all the shit under the sink - Loose Cannon says I lost all credibility on TPWW.net - my life is over.

Please, don't be so condescending. It just makes you look ridiculous.


Vince McMahon knows how to market wrestling to the people who watch it. His father did it, he learned the trade, and now he's doing it. He's a promoter just like any other. But he doesn't know SHIT when it comes to talent.

Let's look at the list of guys he's wasted over the years:

-Rob Van Dam
-Rhino
-Spanky
-Frankie Kazarian
-Paul London
-Dean Malenko
-Akio
-Charlie Haas
-Ultimo Dragon

The list goes on and on, but I don't wish to continue. Vince can promote, but he wouldn't recognize talent if it shit in his soup.

[Loose Cannon]

So basically the question became whether it made more sense to put the belt on a guy who has only been on TV in a passing manner in the last month, who had almost zero heat headed into the PPv or to keep the belt on JJ, TNA's most established commodity.

Thank You. This is basically my entire argument summed up nicely here.

[Fox]

LC and Fox are looking at this from two totally different viewpoints; one as a hardcore wrestling fan, and one as a booker and how they should/wqould be trying to make money.

Rhino seriously has not been treated as a main eventer on TNA. I know that part of it is that they were building up JJ/Nash, so there was no reason to build Rhino up for a title shot; this was just a last second decisison. But still...

So basically the question became whether it made more sense to put the belt on a guy who has only been on TV in a passing manner in the last month, who had almost zero heat headed into the PPv or to keep the belt on JJ, TNA's most established commodity.

I would've let JJ retain.

That does about sum it up, and I disagree - Rhino should have, and did, win. Differences of opinion are what make life interesting.

Thanks for the debate LC. Later.

[loopydate]

I would've let JJ retain.

And, despite what I've said throughout this thread, I would have as well. All I've been trying to offer, and I think PH and a couple others have picked up on this, is that this is not necessarily the stupidest booking decision in the history of stupid booking and that we should perhaps see where TNA is going with this before saying that it is.

[McLegend]

Oh no. I'd better go drink all the shit under the sink - Loose Cannon says I lost all credibility on TPWW.net - my life is over.

Please, don't be so condescending. It just makes you look ridiculous.


Vince McMahon knows how to market wrestling to the people who watch it. His father did it, he learned the trade, and now he's doing it. He's a promoter just like any other. But he doesn't know SHIT when it comes to talent.

Let's look at the list of guys he's wasted over the years:

-Rob Van Dam
-Rhino
-Spanky
-Frankie Kazarian
-Paul London
-Dean Malenko
-Akio
-Charlie Haas
-Ultimo Dragon

The list goes on and on, but I don't wish to continue. Vince can promote, but he wouldn't recognize talent if it shit in his soup.
If he doesn't reconginze talent how come he signed incredibly talented workers?

[Fox]

His scouts told him to.

If he DOES recognize talent, why didn't he use them? You see, it's not about what you HAVE, it's HOW you USE it.

[PureHatred]

If he doesn't reconginze talent how come he signed incredibly talented workers?

Shhhhh....Vince makes almost all his contractual decisions based on what Sophie tells him in EWR. :shifty:

"Free Agent Hulk Hogan has CHARISMA, but he's also 55? Hmmmmmm...."

[McLegend]

His scouts told him to.

If he DOES recognize talent, why didn't he use them? You see, it's not about what you HAVE, it's HOW you USE it.
Yeah so he doesn't USE talent correctly, but he can still recongize talent pretty well.

Sorry jump off topic

I'm kind of on the fence about Rhino winning. I probably would have had Jarret retain, but this move won't kill TNA in the long run.

[Loose Cannon]

Oh no. I'd better go drink all the shit under the sink - Loose Cannon says I lost all credibility on TPWW.net - my life is over.

Please, don't be so condescending. It just makes you look ridiculous.


Vince McMahon knows how to market wrestling to the people who watch it. His father did it, he learned the trade, and now he's doing it. He's a promoter just like any other. But he doesn't know SHIT when it comes to talent.

Let's look at the list of guys he's wasted over the years:

-Rob Van Dam
-Rhino
-Spanky
-Frankie Kazarian
-Paul London
-Dean Malenko
-Akio
-Charlie Haas
-Ultimo Dragon

The list goes on and on, but I don't wish to continue. Vince can promote, but he wouldn't recognize talent if it shit in his soup.


yea, I can't argue with Hardcore Marks like you. All you guys do is BITCH AND BITCH about this guy being wasted and ROH/CZW/Insert Independent company here, and here, being an awesome company and how storylines are stupid and how you love the crazy spots and how WWE is the devil.

You just don't get the business side of wrestling and can't realize that all of those guys you listed, excpet RVD and Malenko, just don't have "it" to be used how you wanted them to be used. Face it, the mass audience doesn't care about them enough for them to amount to anything in the WWE.

And Malenko wasn't misuded at all. He was definately not good enough to be a main focal point, but he was highlighted a lot in WCW and WWF.

[Fox]

Shhhhh....Vince makes almost all his contractual decisions based on what Sophie tells him in EWR. :shifty:

"Free Agent Hulk Hogan has CHARISMA, but he's also 55? Hmmmmmm...."

But.... Sophie works for me. THAT WHORE!!!!!!

[RemyRed]

Let's look at the list of guys he's wasted over the years:

-Rob Van Dam
-Rhino
-Spanky
-Frankie Kazarian
-Paul London
-Dean Malenko
-Akio
-Charlie Haas
-Ultimo Dragon

The list goes on and on, but I don't wish to continue. Vince can promote, but he wouldn't recognize talent if it shit in his soup.
The majority of those guys. while talented, wouldn't draw a dime.

[Fox]

yea, I can't argue with Hardcore Marks like you. All you guys do is BITCH AND BITCH about this guy being wasted and ROH/CZW/Insert Independent company here, and here, being an awesome company and how storylines are stupid and how you love the crazy spots and how WWE is the devil.

You just don't get the business side of wrestling and can't realize that all of those guys you listed, excpet RVD and Malenko, just don't have "it" to be used how you wanted them to be used. Face it, the mass audience doesn't care about them enough for them to amount to anything in the WWE.

And Malenko wasn't misuded at all. He was definately not good enough to be a main focal point, but he was highlighted a lot in WCW and WWF.

Are you fucking high, mang?

How exactly can the mass audience care about someone when they don't even get a fucking shot at making them care? You know, some people actually enjoy watching an unscripted, un-road agent specified match every now and then, which is what most of those guys do best. But that's not the WWE way, so those guys didn't get over.

You can't sit there and tell me that Paul London couldn't get over if he were allowed to pull out all the stops against guys like, oh I don't know, Rob Van Dam and Akio? They would steal the show every night. Maybe that's what Paully Levesque and Jibble and Undertaker are afraid of?

Malenko did get good treatment in WCW in the mid-90's, and you know why? BECAUSE HE WAS BOOKED AS A GREAT WRESTLER! He was booked as a bad ass technical wrestler, put into a feud with Chris Jericho (which actually featured, GASP, WRESTLING MATCHES!) and he got over.

In WWE he was the most unimportant member of the Radicals, then he was some stupid secret agent lover type guy, then he became a road agent. Yeah, he really got the chance to shine there.

[Fox]

The majority of those guys. while talented, wouldn't draw a dime.

I'm not suggesting we put Akio and Paul London in the main event. I am, however, suggesting that they be used to their fullest potential. They're not talkers, they're no Rock or Austin on the microphone, but they are great WRESTLERS. They have creativity and ability in the ring, but they were hindered because of the WWE's formulaic style of wrestling. Why do you think Frankie Kazarian left after two weeks?

[Loose Cannon]

Just shut up. People are agreeing with me here and probaby will argue this for me, so I'm done with you.

You're just a bitter smark

[loopydate]

The majority of those guys. while talented, wouldn't draw a dime.

No no no. Why does everyone think that "hasn't drawn a dime" and "wouldn't/couldn't draw a dime" are the same thing? Just because someone isn't used properly doesn't mean that they can't be a draw. Stunning Steve Austin wasn't used properly, either.

With the proper push, seven out of the nine guys on that list could/would have drawn.

Rob Van Dam - If WWE had put the title on him in summer 2001, they would have done amazing business. He was the most over guy in the company at that point.

Rhino - Instead of immediately burying him as Edge & Christian's lackey, they should have emphasized the fact that he was the last ECW Champion and had him dominate the Hardcore Division which (let's face it) needed something at that point. Having an unstoppable "rookie monster" become that division's focal point would have made the belt actually mean something and would have made Rhino a star. From there, who knows? A successful Hardcore run leads to the IC division. Put him with a mouthpiece manager (Paul Heyman?), and aim him at the babyface World Champion.

Spanky/Frankie Kazarian/Paul London - Let's not forget that Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels were considered too small, too. All three of these guys have tremendous charisma and movesets that get the crowd on their feet. Play Spanky or London up as HBK's chosen successor. Start him in tag team matches with his mentor, where he gets a chance to showcase his moveset. Eventually, when the crowd gets firmly behind this newcomer, start planting the seeds of HBK becoming jealous of his student starting to get bigger reactions than he is. "Miscommunications" in tag matches lead to HBK finally getting fed up and superkicking his protege and boom, you've got a main-event feud.

While the HBK-protege story doesn't work as well for Kazarian, the guy's charisma can't be denied. And his character was starting to get reactions. Maybe (and this is a novel idea) if WWE hadn't stuck him on Velocity for the entirety of his run and had, instead, given him the spot that Ken Kennedy moved into (the cocky, obnoxious heel who, by hook or crook, somehow keeps pulling off these "impossible" upsets). Cocky heels have always drawn.

Dean Malenko - If Chris Benoit can draw, so can Dean Malenko. They're practically the same wrestler, except Benoit had a little more aerial-based stuff.

Charlie Haas - Can we say Kurt Angle?

Akio and Ultimo Dragon, while immensely talented, have the grave misfortune of being of Asian descent. For one reason or another, American wrestling fans just don't identify that well with Asian wrestlers. They'll be amazed by their breathtaking movesets, but they'd never consider them a credible World Champion.

[Fox]

Just shut up. People are agreeing with me here and probaby will argue this for me, so I'm done with you.

You're just a bitter smark

Ahh, the words of the defeated. Beautiful.

You back out because you have no retaliation for my previous reply to you. It's okay. Nobody thinks the less of you.

[PureHatred]

I'm not suggesting we put Akio and Paul London in the main event. I am, however, suggesting that they be used to their fullest potential. They're not talkers, they're no Rock or Austin on the microphone, but they are great WRESTLERS. They have creativity and ability in the ring, but they were hindered because of the WWE's formulaic style of wrestling. Why do you think Frankie Kazarian left after two weeks?

While I agree that the WWE has no fucking clue how to use the CW division, that still doesn't change the fact that, at the end of the day, TNA just puts its major belt on a guy who they basically used as midcard fodder for the past two months.

Whether you argue the sports entertainment/business side or the wrestling fan side, Rhino is no great shakes in either case. Hes just so-so in the ring, He can't cut a promo to save his life. He got his monster push in ECW by default; everyone else had either left or were hurt. And he really hasn't connected with the TNA crowd. Maybe that'll change after tonight. :-\

Also, try to look past your personal biases when you assess Monty Brown. Because he is hugely over with the TNA audience..

[Loose Cannon]

Ahh, the words of the defeated. Beautiful.

You back out because you have no retaliation for my previous reply to you. It's okay. Nobody thinks the less of you.

well since you really want me to reply, I will. But since it's 1am here and I have to get up for school in 6 hours, I'll do it tomorrow.

[loopydate]

While I agree that the WWE has no fucking clue how to use the CW division, that still doesn;'t change the fact that, at the end of the day, TNA just puts its major belt on a guy who they basically used as midcard fodder for the past two months.

Yeah, but they haven't been on TV for the past two months, so nobody but us knows that.

Whether you argue the sports entertainment/business side or the wrestlign fan side, Rhino is nbo great shakes in either case. Hes just so-so in the ring, He can't cut a promo to save his life.

The same thing can be said about Abyss. Give him a mouthpiece and you cover up his mic problems. Keep him in Monster's Ball matches and you cover up his workrate problems.

He got his monster push in ECW by default; everyone else had either left or were hurt.

This is true, but he made the most of it didn't he?

And he really hasn't connected with the TNA crowd. Maybe that'll change after tonight. :-\

Only one way to find out, right?

Also, try to look past your personal biases when you assess Monty Brown. Because he is hugely over with the TNA audience..

Monty's another one in the vein of Rhino and Abyss. Big, scary, and intense, but mediocre on the mic and in the ring. But Monty was given a gimmick he plays to the hilt, and his "legit" background was bound to connect.

[Kane Knight]

Let's look at the list of guys he's wasted over the years:

-Rob Van Dam
-Rhino
-Spanky
-Frankie Kazarian
-Paul London
-Dean Malenko
-Akio
-Charlie Haas
-Ultimo Dragon

The list goes on and on, but I don't wish to continue. Vince can promote, but he wouldn't recognize talent if it shit in his soup.

To be fair, having wasted that many people in a company with not only so many workers, but also so many successes, doesn't say much.

If he doesn't reconginze talent how come he signed incredibly talented workers?

Of course, the numbers argument swings this way too. Given the volume of talent, the fact that he has talent scouts and management, etc., it's not inconceivable that he could come up with some big successes amidst the junk. LEt's face it. Not every talent was a jackpot, not every gimmick was good.

I wouldn't have minded Jarrett dropping the belt, but Rhino seems like a piss-poor choice to me. Nothing against Rhino, But this is more or less out of nowhere, and he wouldn't have been on my shortlist for the belt...

...Or my long list, actually.

In better circumstances, I wouldn't be as disappointed. But right now, I can't help it.

[Loose Cannon]

While I agree that the WWE has no fucking clue how to use the CW division, that still doesn't change the fact that, at the end of the day, TNA just puts its major belt on a guy who they basically used as midcard fodder for the past two months.

Whether you argue the sports entertainment/business side or the wrestling fan side, Rhino is no great shakes in either case. Hes just so-so in the ring, He can't cut a promo to save his life. He got his monster push in ECW by default; everyone else had either left or were hurt. And he really hasn't connected with the TNA crowd. Maybe that'll change after tonight. :-\

Also, try to look past your personal biases when you assess Monty Brown. Because he is hugely over with the TNA audience..

I doubt he'll ever look past his personal bias.

Hey Fox, you never gave me your thoughts on Cena. You know the guy with little wrestling ability that's making a shit load of money for the biggest wrestling company today

[Kane Knight]

...Kennedy...

[KingofOldSchool]

...Sucks...

[Loose Cannon]

One more post before I get out of here.

One thing I just don't get in all this was TNA spent so much time on building guys like Monty, like Styles, like Raven to take the belt from Jarret, yet they all failed so far. But Rhino has beat Jarrett, without any build, quicker then any of those guys and seemingly out of nowhere.

Do you think that makes most of your top "superstars" look like total losers?

Just a thought

[PureHatred]

Yeah, but they haven't been on TV for the past two months, so nobody but us knows that.

The same thing can be said about Abyss. Give him a mouthpiece and you cover up his mic problems. Keep him in Monster's Ball matches and you cover up his workrate problems.

Only one way to find out, right?


Hey now, TNA hs been on TV for 3 weeks now. Little to no build up in the three weeks leading up to "TNA's WRSTLEMANIA"...still think its a legit argument.

Lotta guys in that company need mouthpieces. Abyss, Rhino, AJ...

But... I pretty much agree with you...I don't agree with the decision, but I'm willing to see where it goes.

[PureHatred]

One more post before I get out of here.

One thing I just don't get in all this was TNA spent so much time on building guys like Monty, like Styles, like Raven to take the belt from Jarret, yet they all failed so far. But Rhino has beat Jarrett, without any build, quicker then any of those guys and seemingly out of nowhere.

Do you think that makes most of your top "superstars" look like total losers?

Just a thought

Yes, it sorta does.

[BloodRiotZero]

You guys think too much...

Rhino IS one of TNA's top guys, so it does make some sort of sense to place the title on him. It's not the traditional "build up" formula, but not everything HAS to be...

Whatever... just sit the fuck back and enjoy!

[KayfabeMan]

HORRIBLE PPV.

Absolutely HORRIBLE.

I would've never passed that off for a TV taping, let alone a f'n PPV. I will never be purchasing a TNA event after tonight's. I decided after not being able to go that it'd be good to see it, but I'm glad I didn't get to go. Nothing was done right all night long, and the matches were overhyped and turned out to be nothing special.

Jeff Hardy jumping off the top of the stage was the moment of the night.

[Dave Youell]

I haven't seen the show, but Ryhno isn't that bad a choice IMO, he's been WWEised over the past few years so on TV he was looking average, his matches and promo's in ECW were decent IMO, if he can re capture some of that I think he's a good choice, not my first choice, heck not even my second. But he does have a mainstream appeal to casuals as he's been on WWE TV this year as well, maybe that's one of the reasons for giving him the strap, but don't shit all over the decision until we see where they are going to go with it.

Now, the real question is would Nash of gone over? Cos I really don't think they would have given him the belt, he's too much of a liability with his body and I doubt he would work every show (TV) cos of his contract, your thoughts?

[Destor]

I give the show a 9