Who is the Undisputed GOAT? (Greatest of all-time)

[The Naitch]

OVERALL: Who is the Greatest of all-time

Things to consider:

-Household name?
-Popularity
-Coolness factor
-Drawing power
-Crossover appeal
-How good of a worker he is/Putting people over
-Wrestling ability
-Mic work
-Accomplishments (Titles held)
-Backstage presence
-Stage presence
-Good heel?
-Good babyface?
-Consistency (ie being able to maintain a consisted career. High vs. low points in career)
etc


Pick one. Don't give me this top 5 or top 3 bullshit. If you do, I'm giving you neg reps for life.

Yup, here's my pick:

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6009/39361863britney360sj3.jpg

(The dude on the left)


ps- legend will be making fun of me for this

[Savio]

Rock

[Gertner]

Hogan by a longshot

[The Naitch]

Hogan is getting popular again. I saw him in that Belly/Ginuwine video sitting VIP

[Xero]

Angle, by far.

But there can never be an "undisputed" Greatest of all time unless everyone agrees with it.

[Tb1]

Austin

[Crippla]

Ric Flair.

[KingofOldSchool]

The Rock

[addy2hotty]

Chris Jericho.

[Testicle]

I don't like him but, ric flair

[Jura]

http://www.nidhin.com/images/wwe/INDEXrock_governor.jpg

[Dorkchop]

Austin

[Lock Jaw]

Tyson Tomko.

[Stickman]

The Hitman. Maybe not the biggest draw in the US but probably fits into every other category at or near the top more often than anybody else.

[Rob]

Can't pick between Bret Hart or The Rock. Too many catagories.

[Shaved Monkey]

Can't pick between Bret Hart or The Rock. Too many catagories.

Same here.

[Jordan]

The Rock

[Avenger]

Has to be HBK

[Kane Knight]

Austin.

Bret never drew a dime, and the Rock was clearly less influential than Triple H. :shifty:

[Fox]

Gonna go with Auu.... Hogan. By an inch.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Bret drew well enough and he was larger than pretty much anybody worldwide.

As it stands, Bret Hart.

Austin is close, but he doesnt have the longevity that hart had.

Hogan sucked in too many categories.

Oh, Piper ranks right up there too.

[McLegend]

Steve Austin

[Gray]

Hart i thinky

Or Kevin Nash ;)

[Kane Knight]

Bret drew a dime.

You got me.

[Xero]

It was a Canadian dime though...

[Kane Knight]

Actually, it was an Australian dime.

[Crippla]

Actually, it was an Australian dime.
:nono:

[Flair Wooo]

Bret hart

[The Naitch]

fuck I should've put Coolness Factor on there

[Rammsteinmad]

Gene Snitsky.

[Zen v.W.o.]

You got me.


Outside of Hogan and Austin, in solely america, nobody drew singally speaking. It takes a good company to draw.

Basically, the drawing shit is not a proper gauge for anything.

[Xero]

Basically, the drawing shit is not a proper gauge for anything.
I have thought this for a while. The only thing that can relatively show whether someone "drew" (or in this case, made money) is merchandising, and I suppose to a much lesser extent quarter-hour ratings.

[El Fangel]

http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/users/03/carey/the%20rock.jpg

[Jeritron]

My vote: Rock, based on that criteria.

Don't read this unless you want to...
I'm going to have to say there is no Undisputed answer. It's between Rock, Austin, Hogan. They all score differently in the different criteria. Some of the criteria doesn't even apply to them (like Hogan and wrestling ability). It doesn't really matter. Those 3 are the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit of Professional Wrestling.

Others like Bret, Shawn and Flair are legends and may be better in ring but it doesn't really change the fact that Austin, Rock, Hogan are the biggest household names and drawing gods.

[owenbrown]

The Rock. No Contest.

[Testicle]

I agree that austin, rock and hogan where bigger draws than the rest, but they fall short in many of the other critera.

I think you have to go with flair, followed by micheals and hart.

[ron the dial]

I hate to say it, but Hogan. Just for the fact that whether you've watched wrestling or not, you know who he is. In-ring skills be damned, he did the most for wrestling on a mainstream level. Austin and The Rock are right there behind him, but he's the man who got the ball rolling.

[Jeritron]

Yes but look at all that criteria. I think Austin and Hogan are ahead of Rock slightly too. But based on that criteria and that criteria only, I'd have to give it to Rock. They're all household names, maybe the other 2 moresoe than Rock, but after that look at the categorys. Rock either wins or ties for all of the rest, except maybe drawing power which goes the other way but he isnt' far behind on.

[Kane Knight]

Never ceases to amaze me that Zenny gets so defensive over me essentially mocking Ric's statement.

[Corkscrewed]

If it wasn't for

-How good of a worker he is/Putting people over
-Wrestling ability

It would actually be Hogan ( *barf* ). But with those two, it's The Rock.



And for the record, if you're judging this by sports entertainment standards (as Naitch's criteria seemed to head toward), you can only really consider The Rock, Stone Cold Steve Austin, and Hogan. The three guys who were resoundingly powerful crossover stars whose fame reached well beyond any fan who had even remotely watched wrestling and into pure mainstream.

[Kane Knight]

I agree that they are the only ones who could be considered, Corky. Nobody has mainstream appeal like those three. Which destroys about half the points when looking at anyone else.

[El Fangel]

I'm going to have to say there is no Undisputed answer. It's between Rock, Austin, Hogan. They all score differently in the different criteria. Some of the criteria doesn't even apply to them (like Hogan and wrestling ability). It doesn't really matter. Those 3 are the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit of Professional Wrestling.
.
Very Nice answer.

[Skippord]

Austin

[El Fangel]

Like 90%+ will be Hogan, Austin or Rock. They fit all the criteria (well almost) and they are the most prolific people in wrestling.

[Kane Knight]

I'm not sure about prolific, but they are the best known.

[Jura]

My pick was according to that criteria and when I look at all of them The Rock would be the choice. It seemed like people started looking at only or mostly how much they drew over their career.

Of the big three:

1 Household name? - Tie
2 Popularity - The Rock. Being in movies, tv shows, award shows and hip to the younger generation spreads his name among the masses.
3 Coolness factor - The Rock. The Rock is like that guy in high school that everyone wanted to hang out with.
4 Drawing power - Hogan. Again a toss up but probably Hogan.
5 Crossover appeal - The Rock. Award shows, TV shows, music, SNL, SUCCESSFUL movies. Austin starred in some tv shows and a movie but The Rock has both them beat here.
6 Good Worker?/Putting People Over - The Rock. He put a lot of people over who either didn't deserve to or shouldn't have.
7 Wrestling ability - The Rock. He is very athletic and charismatic and I've never seen him no-sell.
8 Mic work - The Rock
9 Accomplishments - Tie. The Rock was the youngest champion in WWE at one time. Seven time WWE champion (current record), 2 time World Heavyweight champion, 2 time IC, 5 time WWE tag champion, Triple crown champion, 2000 Royal Rumble Winner. Won IC after only three months. He was the first Intercontinental champion of Samoan descent. Neck and neck with Austin.
10 Backstage presence - Tie. Everyone would go crazy for all three of them.
11 Stage presence - Tie. People would get tired of Hogan after a while. Rock and Steve are neck and neck.
12 Good heel? - Hogan. Hogan's turn was etched into wrestling history but he has turned several times since then so bleh. Austin's feud with Hart was great but they started liking him. The Rock was both cheered and jeered but everyone loved to hate him. So I guess it goes to Hogan because they just hated him.
13 Good babyface? - Bret lol. They were getting bored of Hogan but he was the American Hero. The Rock and Steve were the anti-heroes. If anyone was a pure face at one time it would have to be Bret.
14 Consistency - I don't know about this

http://suprfile.com/src/1/5kb9sws/becool2.jpg

Agree or disagree. This is my choice and I am sure in several years when Hogan is in a wheelchair, The Rock will pull ahead the others in several categories. Sorry if it's hard to read :-\

[Funky Fly]

Ultimo Dragon

End of story.

[Funky Fly]

Nah, Bret Hart, for real.

[hitman23]

I must give props to Ric Flair. He is THE MAN WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[Jeritron]

All things aside, I don't see how anyone can give an answer other than Austin, Rock or Hogan to this question and be kidding anyone but themselves, especially if they read Naitch's criteria.
Bret, Shawn or Kurt are all better wrestlers and may have equal or greater accomplishments and legacys within the business to some fans, myself included. But come on now

[Crippla]

With all of these categories, there is not gonna be one undisputed 'GOAT'. No one completely dominates in all of them.

[Crippla]

Bob Backlund btw.

[Jeritron]

With all of these categories, there is not gonna be one undisputed 'GOAT'. No one completely dominates in all of them.

Yea, but you don't need to get a 100% to score the highest grade in the class.

[Crippla]

Yea, but you don't need to get a 100% to score the highest grade in the class.
I realise that but this is never gonna go unargued. I just can't say there is an undisputed Greatest of all time.

[Jeritron]

Well it really is hard to say, but I don't think thats simply what this thread is asking. If you read the first post, and don't come to a conclusion of Rock, Austin or Hogan I would say you are going wrong somewhere.

I'm just going buy who is the Greatest of All Time in terms of "greatness" and the system of rating. If I had to pick my all time favorites I'd be posting names like Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart and Chris Jericho among others, but it's not really about that.

[Crippla]

I suppose you'd just base this on the majority of the categories and who fits them best which would make the obvious answer Rock or Austin but I still wouldn't say it's undisputed.

[Testicle]

Jura, you choose the rock as the guy that put people over the most.

Ric Flair put over more stars than any one in the history of wrestling.

[Zen v.W.o.]

I can get Austin or Hogan, but not the rock. He isnt one of them. The Rock was always under the shadow of Austin. He didnt build anything, Austin got that done. The Rock became popular in a time when people were flocking to the shows, but he didnt bring them there. It's alot harder for guys like Bret and Shawn to kep the wwf afloat than it was for rocky to gain lots of popularity when wrestling was swelteringly hot.

Secondly, none of the rocks movie success has done anything for wrestling, nor does it do anything for him as a wrestler. It's now totally seperate.
The Rock has now become known to others who dont watch wrestling, but it's not like they tune in to it if the rock shows back up.

Among wrestling fans, worldwide, there are plnety of wrestlers who have just as much success and just as much name appeal as the rock does.

The Rocks success outside of wrestling was just because he's a good actor and had the right charisma for it. But it does nothing to increase the rock as a GOAT. Because it's all seperate.

[Indifferent Clox]

Rock

def. not hogan (wrestiling Ability)

I'd say Jericho or Angle based on every factor except household name.

I'd say Flair except the consistency (wcw)

I might get flamed for this but Triple H (except he doesn't put people over very often)

Maybe Mick Foley or Austin?

[AdrianM]

OVERALL: Who is the Greatest of all-time

Things to consider:

-Household name - Hogan
-Popularity - Hogan
-Coolness factor - Steve Austin
-Drawing power - Steve Austin
-Crossover appeal - The Rock
-How good of a worker he is/Putting people over - Bret Hart
-Wrestling ability - Chris Benoit
-Mic work - The Rock
-Accomplishments (Titles held) - Ric Flair
-Backstage presence ?
-Stage presence - Steve Austin
-Good heel - Ric Flair
-Good babyface - Hulk Hogan
-Consistency (ie being able to maintain a consisted career. High vs. low points in career) - Ric Flair

If we consider all these to be of equal value, then the winner is:

Hulk Hogan/Ric Flair/Steve Austin
But, cause you only want one, then I'll go with hogan

[Jura]

Jura, you choose the rock as the guy that put people over the most.

Ric Flair put over more stars than any one in the history of wrestling.
I didn't make it very clear but before I listed the criteria I put "Of the big three". So I made the decision with Austin, Hogan and The Rock in mind.

[Jeritron]

I don't really buy the notion that The Rock was in Austin's shadow. It's bs. Yes, he was in Austin's shadow in 98/99. But in 2000 The Rock broke out like the plague. He was all over everything and became huuuge.
He got more mainstream acceptance and he became a huge star. At the very least he had reached Steve's level. That's why when Austin left for his injury, Rock was a supporting character, but when he returned they were equals. They continued on as "equals" throughout the year 2001, and in 2002 we saw Rock get the match of a lifetime and Austin got buried on midcard before quitting...

I have to say they're equal, maybe not at first but when all was said and done.

[jindrak]

-Household name? Hogan
-Popularity Hogan
-Coolness factor The Rock
-Drawing power Hogan
-Crossover appeal The Rock
-How good of a worker he is/Putting people over Flair
-Wrestling ability Bret Hart
-Mic work The Rock
-Accomplishments (Titles held) Bret Hart
-Backstage presence Hogan
-Stage presence The Rock
-Good heel? The Rock
-Good babyface? Hogan
-Consistency (ie being able to maintain a consisted career. High vs. low points in career)- Hogan
etc

Hogan or The Rock.

[Testicle]

I really believe you guys are overrating the rock. Yes he fits the Naitch's criteria, but in real life flair, micheals and hart are the real goats.

[Crippla]

But that wasn't the question.

[Testicle]

Fine, then I guess I just disagree with his criteria. It seems that all that matters is draw and household name. I just don't see the rock as the great wrestler of all time.

[Testicle]

I don't even like flair and micheals, but they are better than the rock, austin or hogan.

[Bad Company]

http://www.usatoday.com/life/gallery/wrestling/leno-hulk-hogan.jpg

Def Jay Leno.

[El Fangel]

:lol: I think that Undisputed would be better suited as to Your personal undisputed, as when the word undisputed is said someone will dispute over it. Anyways that pic is photoshopped, its looks like Hogan is selling.

[The Naitch]

to be honest, I was going to just use GOAT but I found that if I put Undisputed in front of it, the thread title would seem funnier

ie. people would look at the thread and think that WWE had some new gimmick of some guy wearing a goat costume

[El Fangel]

This is the undisputed goat, I dare anyone to dispute it with me! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/aa/Male_goat.jpg/250px-Male_goat.jpg

[Skippord]

This is the undisputed goat, I dare anyone to dispute it with me! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/aa/Male_goat.jpg/250px-Male_goat.jpg

Tyson Tomko?

[El Fangel]

Ok you got me, it is Tyson Tomko, bastard :mad:

[Crippla]

CC's Pet Goat.

[Corkscrewed]

The one you fuck or the other one? :lol:






Sorry, but the setup was there.

[Destor]

Undisputed? There isn't one. My pick?

(Those only pertain to how big they got BECAUSE of wrestling, not outside of it.)

-Household name? Hogan.
-Popularity? Hogan.
-Coolness factor? Ric Flair.
-Drawing power? Austin.
-Crossover appeal? The Rock.
-How good of a worker he is/Putting people over? Ric Flair.
-Wrestling ability? Ric Flair.
-Mic work? Ric Flair.
-Accomplishments (Titles held?) Ric Flair.
-Backstage presence? Triple H.
-Stage presence? Ric Flair.
-Good heel? Ric Flair.
-Good babyface? Hogan.
-Consistency (ie being able to maintain a consisted career. High vs. low points in career?) Ric Flair.

Flair by a mile.

[Kane Knight]

Flair's titles are definitely and without a doubt something else.

It's easy to "forget" them because of how many times the title's changed hands over the last few years. But even when Trips retires with 38 Champioship reigns, it won't mean as much.

The only one who can possibly beat Flair is Crash Holly, the man who was a 16 time Hardcore chaqmpion...In one night...:shifty:

[Crippla]

Finally, someone sees where I'm coming from with Flair.

[El Fangel]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[Joey Slugs]

It's not even close:

http://slam.canoe.ca/WrestlingImagesFlair/flairnwa.jpg

[Crippla]

Yeah, you could fit Flair into all of the categories really. I don't think there is anyone else who does.

[johnny nintendo]

Hands Down-The Repo Man

[The One]

Ric Flair. Greatest of all time.

The Rock is probably in second for the before mentioned catagories, fallowed by (I'm supprised no one has said him) Andre The Giant, then Austin, and truthfully Hogan would round out for the top 5.