If CM Punk is so great...

[Fignuts]

Then why is he BLATENTLY ripping off KENTA?

I know wrestlers steal moves from other wrestlers, but several from the same guy?

The guy is a studied martial artist, yet he cant come up with his own striking combo? He has to steal KENTA's?(two slaps, rotating chop, roundhouse) He didn't even mix it up at all, ffs. I can honestly say I have never seen a striking combo like that, that was a signature of a particular wrestler, stolen by someone else.

Strange as that was i was willing to get past it, but I hear now, that on the recent ecw tv taping he used the GO2SLEEP. Come the fuck on, KENTA's the only guy in the world who does that move. And you already ripped him off once. For someone who is hyped so much, he hasn't shown me much originality so far in his wwe run.

[Jeritron]

I hope he starts using Go 2 Sleep as a pinfall finisher. And anaconda vice for submission.

Using Go 2 Sleep doesn't bother me.

[Jeritron]

The problem is there are probably very few wrestlers Punk can give the Go 2 Sleep to.

[ron the dial]

I'm sure that he has a lot of control over his moveset in WWE.

[blake639raw]

Big deal. If anything, maybe it's a sign of respect. KENTA has a big match coming up with Morishima. Maybe this was a tribute of some kind. I doubt it though.

Anyways, everybody in wrestling copies from somebody. Flair stole from Rogers, Hogan stole from Graham, etc, etc. Just because nobody else does that move doesn't mean he can't do it. So what, he does a move that he seen someone else do, he likes it and uses it. I don't see no problem. Besides, KENTA don't hardly ever wrestle in the states anyway, and when he does its for ROH, who don't even have a tv deal.

[Jeritron]

Triple H should stop giving those Harley race knees. And where does Shawn Michaels get off applying the figure four?

[Mr. JL]

I don't care what move(s) he uses, just as long as you guys realize that he's majorly overated by the internet community.

[ron the dial]

I"m well aware., but that doesn's stope me from markign out fo rhim..

[Jeritron]

overrated all depends on how you're rated. He's rated like god. He is a great wrestler and has potential. That makes him overrated, but it doesn't take anything away from him.

[Corkscrewed]

Yeah, the GO 2 SLEEP surprised me, but then again, I remember watching Jamie Noble use Rodrick Strong's finisher a while ago (I think it's Strong; it's the fireman's carry into a falling gutbuster).

And as far as the striking combo goes... I thought that's a common martial arts move period. Not just Kenta's move. Granted, Kenta uses it a lot, but it's still a striking combo.

[.44 Magdalene]

I hear more about how overrated CM Punk is than about how great he's actually supposed to be.



I'm starting to think Punk being overrated is overrated.

[Jura]

Well it is just one match so let's see if he does it again although I don't have a problem. I do believe CM Punk is overrated because of how people go crazy over him even when he hasn't been that good since his debut on ECW. I saw some matches of him in ROH after he debuted in ECW and thought he was amazing and always expected to see him like that but I am continually disappointed. Actually I think his best match so far was against Shannon Moore. The fans cheer him when he comes out and chants CM Punk during the matches but other than that it's pretty quiet and slow-paced. I don't know why I haven't seen the real Punk yet but he did a pretty sweet move on RVD at D2D and from that single moment alone I've always believed that he needed the right opponent to come out of his shell. I believe if you put him up against RVD consistently, they will put up good matches and hopefully bring out the real CM Punk. Also I've always wanted him to go to Smackdown and become heel simply to battle Benoit and possibly have a triple threat match with Benoit and Mysterio reminiscent of the Punk vs Eddie vs Mysterio match.

In summary. ROH Punk > ECW Punk. Heel Punk = Reeks of awesomeness and destrucity. Maybe he can find a niche on Smackdown and put into a program with the right guys and make something of himself and eventually we will get to see him on the A show.

[KingofOldSchool]

Like I said last night, it's hard to have matches like has in ROH when he is only given 5-7 minute matches.

Seriously, he is stuck on ECW where it's only an hour show and they really don't get PPVs. Let's not forget the matches he has had up until December were basically squash matches. And then look at the feuds he's had Mike Knox, Hardcore Holly, and Matt Striker. Knox sucks and he didn't really get much in the feud and we all know what happened in the feud with Holly and Striker.

[Kane Knight]

Like I said last night, it's hard to have matches like has in ROH when he is only given 5-7 minute matches.

Seriously, he is stuck on ECW where it's only an hour show and they really don't get PPVs. Let's not forget the matches he has had up until December were basically squash matches. And then look at the feuds he's had Mike Knox, Hardcore Holly, and Matt Striker. Knox sucks and he didn't really get much in the feud and we all know what happened in the feud with Holly and Striker.

:lol:

God, I love apologists.

[tucsonspeed6]

I don't care what move(s) he uses, just as long as you guys realize that he's majorly overated by the internet community.


I'll acknowledge this if you acknowledge that the IWC doesn't really matter in the end.

[Kane Knight]

Sure it matters.

Whoever we like gets depushed.

Therefore, we have a lot of influence. ;)

[Xero]

I'll acknowledge this if you acknowledge that the IWC doesn't really matter in the end.
In WWE, no. In every other American promotion, yeah.

[Fignuts]

I dunno, like i said, I didn't have that big a problem, with him taking the combo because wrestlers do that all the time, but taking more than one of a wrestlers signature moves is something I have never really seen before.

And corkscrewed, that is most definitly not a common martial arts combo. Maybe each individual strike, but kenta came up with the sequence himself.

[Xero]

I dunno, like i said, I didn't have that big a problem, with him taking the combo because wrestlers do that all the time, but taking more than one of a wrestlers signature moves is something I have never really seen before.
I can't name any off-hand, but I'm almost positive I've heard of wrestlers basically taking on another wrestler's style (not including blatant rip-offs) and a majority of his moves.

[Fignuts]

Well the main point of the thread is that if CM Punk is as good as everyone says he is, he shouldn't have to.

[Xero]

No one is ever as good as the IWC says they are. And no one is ever as bad as the IWC says, except with the possible exception of Khali.

[KingofOldSchool]

No one is ever as good as the IWC says they are.

Even guys like HBK, Flair, and Bret?

[Xero]

Oh yeah. They're some of the greatest, don't get me wrong, but the IWC blows them up like they never did any wrong at times and were perfect.

[Kane Knight]

I dunno, like i said, I didn't have that big a problem, with him taking the combo because wrestlers do that all the time, but taking more than one of a wrestlers signature moves is something I have never really seen before.

And corkscrewed, that is most definitly not a common martial arts combo. Maybe each individual strike, but kenta came up with the sequence himself.

*COUGHJEFFHARDY*

Since it was just brought up recently...

[Kane Knight]

No one is ever as good as the IWC says they are. And no one is ever as bad as the IWC says, except with the possible exception of Khali.

I don't think this can be stated strongly enough. But people won't get it.

[M-A-G]

Wait, wait, are those like the only moves in his moveset or what? And if he is imitating a good wrestler with good moves and storytelling capabilities, wouldn't that make him a good wrestler also? I'm not a Punk fan, mind you, but it seems like a silly thing to get on his case about.

[Stickman]

Whoa whoa whoa.....CM Punk is great?

[loopydate]

Triple H should stop giving those Harley race knees. And where does Shawn Michaels get off applying the figure four?

And what's with everybody doing Lou Thesz Presses? I mean, it's got his NAME in there!

[thecc]

Come the fuck on, KENTA's the only guy in the world who does that move.Both B-Boy and Davey Richards have used it. Cheech also does a variation of it.

[Jeritron]

It's just a move. You can't just copy moves and be a good wrestler. If this were the case all those trampolene wrestling match videos would be 5 star matches. Its how you use them along with how you assemle your style along with many other talents. To 90% of the people watching ECW and or WWE its new.

It'd be great if he hit it off the ladder at mania.

[Corkscrewed]

I dunno, like i said, I didn't have that big a problem, with him taking the combo because wrestlers do that all the time, but taking more than one of a wrestlers signature moves is something I have never really seen before.

And corkscrewed, that is most definitly not a common martial arts combo. Maybe each individual strike, but kenta came up with the sequence himself.

Okay. I must have seen it in a wrestling video game then.

[redoneja]

Both B-Boy and Davey Richards have used it. Cheech also does a variation of it.

:y: I think Cheech's variation is pretty sick looking in it's own right.

[Fignuts]

Fine, whatever. But if he uses the baisakyu knee next week, I'm callin bullshit.

Where the fuck is WWKD and Mr. Monday Morning? They'd be with me on this.

[The Optimist]

Eh, he probably does it as a tribute.

[Kane Knight]

Man, it's a good thing he's a smark favorite. You fags'd eat him alive for this otherwise.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Per FIg's request.

Punk can use the Go 2 Sleep... It's a move, that's fine.

Ripping off the KENTA combo is a bit shitty though. That's not a single move, but a combo. That'd be like someone doing Roaddoggs' punch combo, or Dusty's bionic elbow combo back in the day.

To an exaggerated extent, imagine another wrestler doing the Rock's Spinebuster and People's elbow, in a row, and not as a joke. Or Cima's iconoclasm and then the mad splash.

There's a difference between taking a move or two, and taking combos that are obviously another wrestler's.

[Pepsi Man]

If Kenta didn't want CM to take his Combos, he shoulda written his name on the bag.

[ron the dial]

I ejoyed Punk's rendition of the Go 2 Sleep, but wish that he would refrain from using the striking combo. It just looks terrible when he does it.

[Kane Knight]

If Kenta didn't want CM to take his Combos, he shoulda written his name on the bag.

:rofl:

By the way, I've just got to use this line. I don't agree with it in terms of punk, but...

"Good artists borrow. Great artists steal."

[Gertner]

Per FIg's request.

Punk can use the Go 2 Sleep... It's a move, that's fine.

Ripping off the KENTA combo is a bit shitty though. That's not a single move, but a combo. That'd be like someone doing Roaddoggs' punch combo, or Dusty's bionic elbow combo back in the day.

To an exaggerated extent, imagine another wrestler doing the Rock's Spinebuster and People's elbow, in a row, and not as a joke. Or Cima's iconoclasm and then the mad splash.

There's a difference between taking a move or two, and taking combos that are obviously another wrestler's.


bubba ray has ripped off dusty's elbow

[What Would Kevin Do?]

That's why I said "Back in the day." Cabana does it too. However, Dusty doesn't wrestle anymore, and it's a move that is credited to him. With Dusty, it's an obvious sign of respect, not "I'm going to do this and act like it's mine."

[redoneja]

Go ask KENTA if he has a problem with it. If he doesn't, then who cares?

[Kane Knight]

coput

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Meh. IMO it just makes Punk look sorta cheap.

[Xero]

Here's a question: Would this thread exist if this happened in, say, ROH?

No. In fact, this thread would probably be dedicated to how well he pulled it off (whether he did or didn't pull it off well).

[addy2hotty]

Here's a question: Would this thread exist if this happened in, say, ROH?

No. In fact, this thread would probably be dedicated to how well he pulled it off (whether he did or didn't pull it off well).

I was about to ask actually, did he do these moves in ROH?

[ron the dial]

He wouldn't need to steal the Go 2 Sleep in ROH, though, considering he'd still be using the Pepsi Plunge. Or so I would imagine.

I just see this as a way to give a him finisher that has more impact than the anaconda vice. While it is a cool submission, it's a bit easier to get a knee to the face over with the crowd than an arm submission.

[Xero]

And really, how do you even know if it was Punk's idea to use it? Maybe a writer said "hey, I saw dis cool move on the intarnetz, I want u 2 use it 2nite. Itz on uTubz".

[ron the dial]

Like I said...
I'm sure that he has a lot of control over his moveset in WWE.
It's doubtful that he gets the final say in what moves he uses.

[Skippord]

U-Tubz sounds like Viscera's nickname

[Kane Knight]

I'm sure WWE's sitting there saying "You know, these movesets are kind of boring. Let's mix it up."

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Here's a question: Would this thread exist if this happened in, say, ROH?

No. In fact, this thread would probably be dedicated to how well he pulled it off (whether he did or didn't pull it off well).

If he did it in ROH, then A. most of you wouldn't know it, and B. He'd catch more shit, since KENTA wrestles for ROH.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Here's a question: Would this thread exist if this happened in, say, ROH?

No. In fact, this thread would probably be dedicated to how well he pulled it off (whether he did or didn't pull it off well).

http://www.rohwrestling.com/MessageBoard/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=32139 (http://www.rohwrestling.com/MessageBoard/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=32139)

[Jordan]

He is ripping him off because he is the shit, and nobody knows who KENTA is so who gives a flying fuck?

[Mr. JL]

If this was Hardcore Holly using GO2SLEEP and the KENTA combo, the IWC would be ALL over him.

[Mr. JL]

I personally do not give a fuck about who stole who's move(s) though.

[Kane Knight]

If this was Hardcore Holly using GO2SLEEP and the KENTA combo, the IWC would be ALL over him.

:y:

[Skippord]

HHH told Punk it's cool to steal moves, like when he took the Greetings from Ghana from Jimmy Rave.
:lol:

[Kane Knight]

I personally do not give a fuck about who stole who's move(s) though.

I'm honestly more amused by the reaction than anything else. There's only so many ways to do something. I understand that. It's better, however, if signature moves aren't copied. As Destor has pointed out before, it is their livelihood. And not every instance will hurt someone (Certainly, the use of the Figure Four won't hurt Flair in this day and age, and a Race Knee isn't hurting anyone because he's out of the game), but ripping off your contemporaries is kinda a dickish thing to do in a lot of cases.

[Destor]

I'm honestly more amused by the reaction than anything else. There's only so many ways to do something. I understand that. It's better, however, if signature moves aren't copied. As Destor has pointed out before, it is their livelihood. And not every instance will hurt someone (Certainly, the use of the Figure Four won't hurt Flair in this day and age, and a Race Knee isn't hurting anyone because he's out of the game), but ripping off your contemporaries is kinda a dickish thing to do in a lot of cases.Just to add to this, lets say Punk gets the combo and Go2Sleep over. To the point everyone associates these moves with Punk. Great for him. Now lets assume the WWE signs KENTA. Whats will KENTA then be forced to do? Change his move set to accomidate a man that took them from the ORIGIONATER. That's an issue in my eyes. But the bigger issue is how they would be less likely to bring him in if they already have a guy doing those things, it's not like they need two of those right?

I'll say it really sucks when you work really hard to get something over just to see a guy YOU KNOW doing the same thing YOU came up with elsewhere. Pretty offensive and pretty shitty. YOu work real hard to bring something unique to the table, so you can be worth something, and when A guy takes that he might as well be dipping his hands into your pocket and taking your wallet because it's going to cause the smae effect.

Punk deserves shit for this, but here's the sad truth: The world saw Punk do this first. Their his now.

[addy2hotty]

I've just watched the clip of the 'Go 2 Sleep' by Punk on Youtube, and I've got to say - what a lot of fuss over a shitty looking move.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Destor, you lost me at "WWE signs KENTA"

[loopydate]

If this was Hardcore Holly using GO2SLEEP and the KENTA combo, the IWC would be ALL over him.

To be fair, if this was Hardcore Holly, he would have stiffed the guy and broken his face for not paying his dues.

[Destor]

Destor, you lost me at "WWE signs KENTA"Hypothetical.

[Destor]

You're listening to the wrong part of the story basically.

[Jura]

Just to add to this, lets say Punk gets the combo and Go2Sleep over. To the point everyone associates these moves with Punk. Great for him. Now lets assume the WWE signs KENTA. Whats will KENTA then be forced to do? Change his move set to accomidate a man that took them from the ORIGIONATER. That's an issue in my eyes. But the bigger issue is how they would be less likely to bring him in if they already have a guy doing those things, it's not like they need two of those right?

I'll say it really sucks when you work really hard to get something over just to see a guy YOU KNOW doing the same thing YOU came up with elsewhere. Pretty offensive and pretty shitty. YOu work real hard to bring something unique to the table, so you can be worth something, and when A guy takes that he might as well be dipping his hands into your pocket and taking your wallet because it's going to cause the smae effect.

Punk deserves shit for this, but here's the sad truth: The world saw Punk do this first. Their his now.

Not necessarily. Following your assumptions, they can start a feud between Punk and KENTA on the basis that the fans think KENTA stole the moves. They could show videos of how KENTA has been doing it in the past for a long time to set the record straight and it can culminate in a final match where the winner keeps the moves and also turn Punk heel.

Like I said in another thread, let's wait to see if he keeps using those moves. Unless he wins the MITB with the GTS which is unlikely then let's forget about it.

[The One]

What does it matter. Every move ever done or that ever will be done would be better performed if Destor did it. So really it's every just stealing Destor's glory...

[Kane Knight]

To be fair, if this was Hardcore Holly, he would have stiffed the guy and broken his face for not paying his dues.

To be fair, that's kinda dodging the real issue here.

[Kane Knight]

Not necessarily. Following your assumptions, they can start a feud between Punk and KENTA on the basis that the fans think KENTA stole the moves. They could show videos of how KENTA has been doing it in the past for a long time to set the record straight and it can culminate in a final match where the winner keeps the moves and also turn Punk heel.

Like I said in another thread, let's wait to see if he keeps using those moves. Unless he wins the MITB with the GTS which is unlikely then let's forget about it.

Not gonna happen, not really prudent, and especially, not viable more than, say, once or twice. This does happen often, and it's definitely detrimental. WWE probably won't hire someone when they've already got someone to fit the bill.

[Mr. JL]

Yeah, I'll agree though that it is a pretty dickish thing to blatantly rip someone off when you they are trying to get by and make a living. However, we still have to take into account that maybe Punk asked KENTA for permission to use those moves as well.

I figure the opinions that really matter are the ones who know better. I know where the moves originated from because I am a hardcore wrestling fan. And really lets face it, casual fans won't give a shit and the marks in between are too busy popping for the five knuckle shuffle or AJ Styles's 65th flip in one match to notice.

[Kane Knight]

Yes, I can imagine it's plausible that someone would lend their signature moves to somene so that they can become identified with them by doing them on national television.

No, wait, My Occam's Razor needs a new blade.

[Fignuts]

I dunno, know matter how much I try to approach the situation with an open mind, it still feels cheap to me.

[Kane Knight]

I don't know about cheap, but it certainly seems disrespectful (regardless of the intent).

I'm not losing any sleep over it mind...

[Jeritron]

go 2 sleep off a ladder = wrestlemania highlight

[.44 Magdalene]

The only thing I know for sure...is that I don't really give a fuck.




Just thought I'd drop my two cents in the hat.

[Blitz]

I've just watched the clip of the 'Go 2 Sleep' by Punk on Youtube, and I've got to say - what a lot of fuss over a shitty looking move.
:y:

[Blitz]

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/258/go2sleeppunkse7.gif

:-\

[KingofOldSchool]

How about this, KENTA starts using the Pepsi Plunge.

Problem solved.