The best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be....

[Marc the Smark]

Do you really think this describes Bret Hart? If you do, please explain. If you don't, who do you think is the best? I'll give my opinion later...

[Doc Brown]

It fit his personality, he was a Confident Personality. He was down to the point in his interviews, his matches, and basically his whole career.

So yes, i think the title suits him just fine.

And yes, i personally think he was one of the best.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

I think Shawn Michaels was the best worker ever, but Ric Flair with his legacy and everything puts him down as the best ever overall.

[BigDaddyCool]

Kevin Nash

[The One]

Bret Hart doesn't make my top 50 wrestlers. I'm so dead serious. So no, I don't think he was the best ever, at any point. As far as soley what happens inbetween the bells, I'm sorry, but for my dollar, no one can ever touch Shawn Michaels. In general, Flair is the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

The one, we are at one with one another :love:

[The One]

How many times can YOU use the word "one" in a sentance?

[Fignuts]

Liger

[RP]

The Rock, because this has always been sports entertainment and no one was better then The Rock.

[M-A-G]

It fits his character but compared to other wrestlers, sadly he is not the best.

[Skippord]

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COME ON!!!

[M-A-G]

He's so not gonna be able to do the "Chairman" gimmick.

[Theo Dious]

It fits his character but compared to other wrestlers, sadly he is not the best.

[Mr. JL]

Yeah, I think it suits him because I do think he is 'the best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be!'

[Stickman]

He is was and always will be the best, so yes.

[The Show Off]

Bret Hart doesn't make my top 50 wrestlers. I'm so dead serious. So no, I don't think he was the best ever, at any point. As far as soley what happens inbetween the bells, I'm sorry, but for my dollar, no one can ever touch Shawn Michaels. In general, Flair is the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.

You're entitled to your own opinion, and arguing against opinion is fruitless. However, who would be the 50 wrestlers that you think were better then Bret Hart?

[Jeritron]

Flair clearly isn't the best there is right now

[The One]

You're entitled to your own opinion, and arguing against opinion is fruitless. However, who would be the 50 wrestlers that you think were better then Bret Hart?

Whole thread about this already...
http://www.tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=60436

For the record, I'm am not saying Bret didn't leave behind an incredible legacy. I'm not saying others cann't like him. I'm saying I never did. Hogan has an incredile legacy and legions of fans, I can't take that away from him, but I can say I don't give two squirts of piss about either of them...

[The One]

Flair clearly isn't the best there is right now

If Flair's legacy started today, no he wouldn't be. But if Bret's legacy started today, he'd just be some dude with a concussion who can't wrestler. Hardly makes him the best there is right now either... :p

[Jura]

If you can say that then I can say if Flair's legacy started today then he would just be an old guy with boobs flopping and chopping and wooing.

[Extreme Angle]

I think likes of jushin thunder liger, ultimo dragon, rey mysterio and other great lucha libre wrestlers are the best.

[The One]

That's what I'm saying. Jeritron was making a comment that modern day Flair isn't the best ever. I agreed but pointed out that modern day Bret isn't anything. Part of being great, is having your history. Flair is the best ever, not because of his work in 2007, but because of the entire career of the 30+ years before now...

[Jeritron]

I agree I was simply cracking wise on Flair's current career in WWE.

But as for Bret, I do like him. But he's not the best from his time period, Shawn is. He's not the best of all time, Flair probably is. And as a champion, I enjoyed him and I find him to be one of the most talented wrestlers of all time. However behind champions like HBK, Austin and The Rock I find him to be a tad on the boring side, despite being entertaining to me in his time.
Bottom line is I respect Bret, I appreciate Bret and I do like him. He's a class act in a classless business, he's an amazing worker and a legend. But I stil don't think he literally lives up to his catch phrase.

[Avenger]

Bret is the most overrated wrestler in wrestling history. He was good but not great. The only great thing about him was his connection with the fans, and that was limited.

HBK and Flair are the two greatest in recent years. Can't say more than that.

[The One]

I :heart: Avenger.

...Denny Crane.

[Jeritron]

You can't really be the best there is when another guy on your current roster is out performing you. Seriously, Shawn Michaels has a longer list of instant classics in a short period of time as anyone ever.
If I had to list what I though were the 30 greatest matches of all time, I think Shawn would be in 10+. Possibly.

[The One]

My best matches of all time list consists of alternating between Flair and Michaels' matches.

[Jeritron]

You think there was any form of jealousy or resentment of accomplishment in Bret that fueld their real life fued? I think so. He'd probably never admit it but Shawn came and stole his spotlight, and he proably hated him for being better. Sorry to break it to people, but Shawn is better than Bret. All politics and character issues aside, bell to bell.

[The One]

I always wondered if one of the reasons the real life fued ever started was back when Shawn was in the Rockers and they won the Tag Titles and the whole Neidhart resigning or not resigning thing happened...I'm sure they wern't huge fans of the Harts after that. Throw more fuel to the fire that Shawn was beginning to take the spot that had been groomed for him with Hogan's departure. Hart probably felt like the Kliq was a big slap in his face since it was basically all the upper midcard/main event players who wern't somehow related to him...yeah it's not real hard to figure out why they didn't like each other. Plus you factor in the style of wrestling that the two sides represented and the general attitude of each group and you realise it was like throwing the Capulets and the Montagues together and expecting no one to get a bloody noise now and then...

[Jura]

I would say it's a possibility as it is possible with any wrestler but I would say before the incident I don't think so but after, there may have been. If Rock took a break from acting and came back for a few years, he would definitely steal the spotlight from everyone, especially John Cena but Rock is a classy guy and would put him over so there would be no jealousy.

If Shawn back then was like The Rock then I'm sure they could have shared the spotlight or went back and forth. If Bret was gonna be jealous of anyone I thought it would have been Stone Cold. Bret was the face and the star then this bad ass foul mouth came a long and people booed Bret. But they became good friends in real life.

[Avenger]

Shawn still out-performs everyone on the WWE roster today.

[The One]

But that would be a case of a seasoned vet coming in and resuming their place on top. Bret was totally groomed to be "The guy" of WWE after Hogan, Savage, and the other big draws from the 80's left. Shawn was, I'm sure in Bret's mind, a little punk ass bitch kid with some flashy moves and a coke problem who was suddenly getting bigger reactions than him. It's threatening, and in a lot of ways, I'm sure he was quite insulted.

[Jura]

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if they were both jealous of each other.

[Jeritron]

There can be only one top guy. I think they probably both wanted to be it. That's probably why he, in real life, told Bret to "get the fuck out of the ring this is my moment" at WM12.

[Avenger]

13

[Avenger]

wtf, 12 of course. My bad, ugh.

[Jura]

There can be only one top guy. I think they probably both wanted to be it. That's probably why he, in real life, told Bret to "get the fuck out of the ring this is my moment" at WM12.
I don't know what I'd do if I was in that situation. If someone said that to Taker he'd probably rough him up.

[Jeritron]

13 was supposed to be Bret going over Shawn, but like we've said, egos get in the way.
It's hard to judge, I'd really have to be there to side with someone. Because they paint Shawn in this bad light, but Bret isn't exactly the most happy go lucky guy. He's pretty fucking miserable and in everythign I've seen seemed to be so before the screwjob.
So who knows, maybe he really did treat Shawn like shit and had it coming. Maybe Shawn shouldn't have done the job back for him. Seems snake-ish on HBKs part, but it's really hard to judge not knowing the whole picture.

[The One]

Neither man wanted to put the other over at any point. We paint over the fact that Bret refused to let the Iron Man end with Michaels just going over, hence the overtime outcome. Shawn didn't want to put Hart over at 13. Bret didn't want to put Shawn over in his hometown. Blah, blah, blah. They both have egos, Shawn just was a better politician. Shawn had to do less than Bret did for that reason alone. Neither one of them comes out smelling like roses, but the facts remain, both went out of their way to punk the other one out. They didn't like each other, the crews they rolled with didn't like each other, it was Westside vs. Eastside. Whatever...

Shawn entertained me, I side with Shawn for that reason alone.

[Jeritron]

I will always maintain my opinion on the screwjob. Bret was wrong, Vince was right.
I don't even see the argument and never will. He didn't want to lose in his hometown to Shawn. Too bad, thats where his last contracted event was, Shawn was the guy they wanted to take the belt and thats that.

I like Bret, but I see him as a miserable guy. I think he's a miserable guy with some class and principles, but he's so fuckin miserable. And not just because of the screwjob, he was a miserable asshole before it. That's why it happened. He should have dropped the belt cleanly beforehand or on that night and that's that.

[Jeritron]

It's not Shawn's fault Bret fucked Sunny.

[The One]

Bret Screwed Bret. But let's not bring up Montreal before Rob or Zen vWo shows up...

[Jeritron]

of course, all the details that are supposed to convince me that a wrestler was right to refuse jobbing the belt to a guy he didn't like in his hometown before appearing on the compettitions program.

Sure, I buy it that...Didn't buy it when I was 11 and I don't but it now. Sorry Hitmen and Hitgirls, it's just the way it is. Bret was wrong. Life goes on.

[Shaved Monkey]

Yeah, I'm a Bret fan, and have always considered him to be one of the best of all time.

And they may deport me for saying this, but I've never had sympathy for Bret regarding Montreal.

[Jeritron]

Either way it was the best thing to ever happen to the WWF

[Shaved Monkey]

Either way it was the best thing to ever happen to the WWF

Yeah. If that's what it took to start the whole attitude era, I wouldn't change a thing done.

[Jeritron]

Cleared the way for Austin to take over, got rid of Bret from being around (no offense) in a time where he was no longer needed.

And perhaps most importantly, created the McMahon character and gave Shawn immense heel heat headed into Mania to put over Austin.

[Juan]

I bet most of you were on Bret's nuts while he was still wrestling (maybe not so much in WCW)....

[Jeritron]

Not really...I think thats what we're talking about right now...

[Kane Knight]

There is no "best there ever was." It's ridiculous to compare generations of wrestlers on the same standards. Bret's statement was great as a sales pitch, but it's really nothing more than that.

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, I'm a Bret fan, and have always considered him to be one of the best of all time.

And they may deport me for saying this, but I've never had sympathy for Bret regarding Montreal.

Deport you? Nigga, that shit's treasonous rite thurrrr.

Here's your blindfold. Any last requests?

[addy2hotty]

No, no and no.

[addy2hotty]

Either way it was the best thing to ever happen to the WWF

I'd say Bischoff releasing Steve Williams was the best thing to ever happen to the WWF. But thats just IMO.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Yeah it suits him. He's the best wrestler of the past two decades. HBK doesnt touch him, in terms of storytelling, now knowing how to wrestle guys of different sizes and skillsets. BTW, HBK couldnt work a program with much people besides his buddies.

Bret gave these guys there best matches:

Diesel
Perfect
Piper
Austin
Owen
Bulldog
Hakushi
Bam Bam
Among others.

He wrestled in the greatest wwe match of all time. He as world champ and as a main eventer would do all he could to help the undercard....no other main eventer did such a thing, especially not Shawn.
His matches seemed much more heated and real then any other wrestler going. Plus he was the overall package.

Yeah, fuck yeah, he's the best there is, was and ever will be.

[Jeritron]

we knew this was coming

[Zen v.W.o.]

of course, all the details that are supposed to convince me that a wrestler was right to refuse jobbing the belt to a guy he didn't like in his hometown before appearing on the compettitions program.

Sure, I buy it that...Didn't buy it when I was 11 and I don't but it now. Sorry Hitmen and Hitgirls, it's just the way it is. Bret was wrong. Life goes on.


Reasobale creative control was granted him. Too bad for Vince...dont give him that if you cant honour it. He wasnt leaving immediately after anyways. He still had a month to go on that deal after the SS, so there was plenty of time to do something else that agreed with all parties, and for a guy that gave his all and everything for that company, Bret deserved it.

Vince outright lied, and then tried to act like a man about it and got knocked on his ass for it, and rightfully so.

[Jeritron]

Bret's career fell apart and he was put in his place in front of MTL instead of doing his job in front of them, rightfully so.

And reasonable creative control, it wasn't reasonable. He was out of control with it. I don't care what you did for the company, the company did a lot for him. And he should have dropped the belt. It also doesn't matter what he thought of Shawn, or what dilluisions he had about not wanting to "lose" in front of his hometown. It's called doing the job for a reason.

And to say he GAVE those wrestlers their best matches? Oh yea, the Pink tigheted Hitman fairy came in the middle of the night and gave them classic matches under their pillow. Yes he's a great worker, but he didn't GIVE those wrestlers their best matches. He gave his 50%. Seriously what a slap in the face to great workers like Piper, Perfect, Austin and the rest to say he GAVE them those matches. In many cases those weren't even their best career matches.

Seriously the Hitman is a legend, he's a great wrestler and I liked him. But get off of his miserable dick.

[McLegend]

I can argee that all those people Zen mentioned had thier best matches with Bret Hart.

[Kane Knight]

Yeah it suits him. He's the best wrestler of the past two decades. HBK doesnt touch him, in terms of storytelling, now knowing how to wrestle guys of different sizes and skillsets. BTW, HBK couldnt work a program with much people besides his buddies.

Bret gave these guys there best matches:

Diesel
Perfect
Piper
Austin
Owen
Bulldog
Hakushi
Bam Bam
Among others.

He wrestled in the greatest wwe match of all time. He as world champ and as a main eventer would do all he could to help the undercard....no other main eventer did such a thing, especially not Shawn.
His matches seemed much more heated and real then any other wrestler going. Plus he was the overall package.

Yeah, fuck yeah, he's the best there is, was and ever will be.

Well, someone has to be the biggest, blindest fanboy.

While I agree with you on bits of this, the phrase "COME FUCKING ON!" Comes to mind.

[The One]

Dammit, I hate having to agree with KK... :|

[Avenger]

Yeah it suits him. He's the best wrestler of the past two decades. HBK doesnt touch him, in terms of storytelling, now knowing how to wrestle guys of different sizes and skillsets. BTW, HBK couldnt work a program with much people besides his buddies.

Bret gave these guys there best matches:

Diesel
Perfect
Piper
Austin
Owen
Bulldog
Hakushi
Bam Bam
Among others.

He wrestled in the greatest wwe match of all time. He as world champ and as a main eventer would do all he could to help the undercard....no other main eventer did such a thing, especially not Shawn.
His matches seemed much more heated and real then any other wrestler going. Plus he was the overall package.

Yeah, fuck yeah, he's the best there is, was and ever will be.You've been watching the Bret DVD too much.

[Avenger]

lol KK by the way

[Kane Knight]

Dammit, I hate having to agree with KK... :|

Well you don't have to. Don't you know agreeing with me is letting the terrorists win? Do your job, you American pig-dog!