The most elite of all real tag teams

[BigDaddyCool]

From my count there are now 4 incredibly elite real tag teams:

Edge and Christian
Rock and Sock Connection
APA
Brother's of Destruction

Now guess why they are so elite.

[FourFifty]

The Road Warriors, 'nuff said.
You cannot talk about tag teams without them, and I'd like to know why they aren't on your list of four.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Two Dudes with Attitudes

ftw

[HeartBreakMan2k]

And I would say because both members won a world title, but there are a lot of teams left off that list if that's the reasoning behind it.

[BigDaddyCool]

And I would say because both members won a world title, but there are a lot of teams left off that list if that's the reasoning behind it.

Really, what other real tag teams have both won world titles?

[FourFifty]

I'm going to assume "Two Random Main Eventers" don't count. (ie- Cena & HBK, Rated RKO, Steve Austin and Triple H, etc)

[Corndad]

Demolition?

[Jeritron]

All those tag teams had both members as World Champions

[The One]

Diesel & Shawn Michaels sure as hell should count.

So should DX.

[Corndad]

From my count there are now 4 incredibly elite real tag teams:

Edge and Christian
Rock and Sock Connection
APA
Brother's of Destruction

Now guess why they are so elite.

My guess they are so elite is that both members held a World Title.

Edge held WWE while Christan was TNA champ
Both Mick and Rock held WWE
Bradshaw held WWE and Simmons held I believe WCW.
Both Taker and Kane have held WWE

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Well actually... I suppose you have a point. I guess you could point to Money Inc, but they held lesser world titles. :meh:

ANyway, that was the connection correct?

And I don't consider Rock'n'Sock a real team now that I think about it. Or bothers of destruction for that matter... well no more so than teams like the two man power trip, Edge and Rey, Kurt and Beniot, Kane and Mankind, Van Dam and Sabu, etc.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Diesel & Shawn Michaels sure as hell should count.

So should DX.

Agreed

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Diesel & Shawn Michaels sure as hell should count.

So should DX.

Two Dudes with Attitudes

ftw



:MAD:

[Jeritron]

How are The Rock and Sock and Brothers of Destruction any more "real" tag teams than say...Benoit and Jericho, or Eddie and Rey, or other team ups along those lines?

To me I'd say a "real" tag team would be a team that consisted of members who weren't established stars or champions beforehand, and got over as a tag team. Then how they went on in singles from there would determine how "elite" they are in terms of this criteria.

The brothers of destruction were both world champions before teaming up, and it was just a team up anyhow.

Same with the Rock and Sock. What makes them more real than any other superstar pairing? Because they have a clever name?

Other tag teams had situations where one member was a world champion beforehand, or the two parties involved were succesful singles stars.

A real tag team would be Edge and Christian. They both went on to successful singles careers afterwards but they really got over as a team first.

Benoit and Jericho were tag champions before splitting up, but it was merely a team up and both hadn't won WWE world gold yet at the point of their teaming. However they're not "real" tag teams in the sense that Edge and Christian, LOD, The Rockers, Hart Foundation, NAO, The Hardys and others are.

[BigDaddyCool]

Diesel & Shawn Michaels sure as hell should count.

So should DX.

I accept Nash and Micheals...they were decent.

DX was never a tag team, they were a faction, and if you mean HHH and Micheals, they were never tag champs.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

What about Edge and Rey, Kurt and Beniot, Kane and Mankind, Van Dam and Sabu, etc. then.

Edge/Rey, Beniot/Angle were Smackdowns top teams circa 2000. Kane and Mick were always teaming at first and Van Dam/Sabu from ECW. <!-- / message -->

[BigDaddyCool]

How are The Rock and Sock and Brothers of Destruction any more "real" tag teams than say...Benoit and Jericho, or Eddie and Rey, or other team ups along those lines?

To me I'd say a "real" tag team would be a team that consisted of members who weren't established stars or champions beforehand, and got over as a tag team. Then how they went on in singles from there would determine how "elite" they are in terms of this criteria.

The brothers of destruction were both world champions before teaming up, and it was just a team up anyhow.

Same with the Rock and Sock. What makes them more real than any other superstar pairing? Because they have a clever name?

Other tag teams had situations where one member was a world champion beforehand, or the two parties involved were succesful singles stars.

A real tag team would be Edge and Christian. They both went on to successful singles careers afterwards but they really got over as a team first.

Benoit and Jericho were tag champions before splitting up, but it was merely a team up and both hadn't won WWE world gold yet at the point of their teaming. However they're not "real" tag teams in the sense that Edge and Christian, LOD, The Rockers, Hart Foundation, NAO, The Hardys and others are.

I don't agree completely. Rock and Sock is arguable. By your defination APA couldn't be considered becaues Ron Simmons had already been champion, and his singles career has winded down.

I would argue that Taker and Kane being "brothers" implies they were moron than just two singles starts thrown together.

Also, it confuses me when your bring up Eddie and Rey, Eddy was a world champion, Rey was not.

[The One]

RVD & Sabu if you count ECW as a legit World belt.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Rey did win the world title there BDC

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Damn you and your spam tanks One, stealing my thunder :'(

[The One]

Jericho/Christian could possibly argued as well.

Oh and Sting/Luger is certainly worthy of being mentioned. And I think Power Team USA should be noted as well.

[BigDaddyCool]

Rey did win the world title there BDC

No he didn't. For some reason WWE decided to vacate the World Heavywieght championship in the 2006 Wrestlemainia and it wasn't until Judgement day that WWE decided to reactivate the title and award it to King Booker.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Rotundo and Steve Williams too

[BigDaddyCool]

Jericho/Christian could possibly argued as well.

Oh and Sting/Luger is certainly worthy of being mentioned. And I think Power Team USA should be noted as well.

Interesting points. Vitaimin C could be argued.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

No he didn't. For some reason WWE decided to vacate the World Heavywieght championship in the 2006 Wrestlemainia and it wasn't until Judgement day that WWE decided to reactivate the title and award it to King Booker.

:love:

[Jeritron]

I don't agree completely. Rock and Sock is arguable. By your defination APA couldn't be considered becaues Ron Simmons had already been champion, and his singles career has winded down.

I would argue that Taker and Kane being "brothers" implies they were moron than just two singles starts thrown together.

Also, it confuses me when your bring up Eddie and Rey, Eddy was a world champion, Rey was not.

I was bringing Eddie and Rey up as an example of a team that wouldn't be a "real tag team". I was using them as an example of a team that had 2 established stars teaming up. I also was using them as an example of a team that had one world champion prior to tagging, and then a champion afterwards.
Another example is Austin and Michaels in 97.

I agree, APA was a real tag team. It's in a lot of ways an exception to the rule, since Ron Simmons was not really known for being a world champion and was completely fresh and low card in a whole new promotion.

But I still feel that Rock and Sock and Brothers of Destruction were not "real" tag teams in the conventional sense. They were superstar pairings along the exact same lines as other teams like Edge and Benoit or Austin and Triple H.

What makes Rock and Sock or Brothers of Destruction different? If it's because they had a name to go with them then Rated RKO would count as a real tag team, to which I'd disagree.


Another thing is, just because both members of a tag team weren't world champions yet doesn't mean it can't still be the superstar pairing type deal.
Austin and Dude Love are an example of this. They were both stars and over, despite not being world champions. So regardless it comes off as a team up and not a tag team unit.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Larry Hennig and Harley Race

[Jeritron]

It may just be my perception of things, but I think it has some merit.

Real Tag Teams:
Road Warriors
Hart Foundation
Edge and Christian
The Hardy Boys
Dudley Boys
Demolition
NAO
MNM
The Rockers
The Bulldogs
etc.

Pair ups:
Rock n Sock
Rated RKO
Two Dudes with Attitude
Brothers of Destruction
Two Man Power Trip
etc.

[The One]

Two Dudes with Attitude was a TOTAL tag team.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

On screen and behind the scenes. :mad:

T hey were the goods.

[BigDaddyCool]

Who are Two Dudes with Attitude and Two Man Power trip. I'm guessing Dude Love and Austin for the first, and HHH and Austin for the second?

[Jeritron]

Two dudes with attitude: HBK and Diesel
Both were singles stars beforehand however, though at least Diesel was HBK's bodyguard so I think they actually are borderline for being a real team.
So I take that one back and make them a tweener.

But yes, Two Man Power Trip was Austin/HHH in 2001

[Jeritron]

I can't believe your name is BigDaddyCool and you claim to be a Kliq aficionado and don't know about the greatness that was Two Dudes with Attitude. I'll let it slide because I like you and the Kliq tho

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Who are Two Dudes with Attitude and Two Man Power trip. I'm guessing Dude Love and Austin for the first, and HHH and Austin for the second?

Two Dudes with Attitudes were HBK and Diesel circa...03 maybe?

And correct on the power trip

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Also, I'd dare add Flair and Batista. Flair's singles career had wavored and Batista was new still.

[The One]

It was really only a team because Orton was IC Champ and HHH was World and they were the only ones left to win the tag belts.

[BigDaddyCool]

I can't believe your name is BigDaddyCool and you claim to be a Kliq aficionado and don't know about the greatness that was Two Dudes with Attitude. I'll let it slide because I like you and the Kliq tho

Never clamied to be an aficionado, I'm just a Nash mark.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

True enough but it did exist.

[Jeritron]

Flairs career was wavering?

It's not like he was Ron Simmons and no longer known and had nothing else for him. He was immortalize as being RIC FUCKING FLAIR and no matter what he did or what tag team he was in it would and always will be overshadowed by that, and nothing more than a pair up.

Ric Flair and Batista was hardly a real tag team

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Flairs career was wavering?

It's not like he was Ron Simmons and no longer known and had nothing else for him. He was immortalize as being RIC FUCKING FLAIR and no matter what he did or what tag team he was in it would and always will be overshadowed by that, and nothing more than a pair up.

Ric Flair and Batista was hardly a real tag team

Flair main event run was over was what I meant. He still is an incredible name, but he wasn't in the main event hunt and hadn't truly been in quite some time.

[Road Warrior]

Blade Runners,Sting & Warrior were both champions
Doom, I'm not sure but i think Butch Reed was a world champion
Masters of the Powerbomb, Sid and Vader

[BigDaddyCool]

Blade Runners,Sting & Warrior were both champions
Doom, I'm not sure but i think Butch Reed was a world champion
Masters of the Powerbomb, Sid and Vader

Masters of the Powerbomb was just thrown together so they could blow up Sting and Davey Boy Smith's boat, everyone knows that.

[Road Warrior]

From my count there are now 4 incredibly elite real tag teams:

Edge and Christian
Rock and Sock Connection
APA
Brother's of Destruction

Now guess why they are so elite.
Two world champs don't equal an elite tag team anyway. By your theory we could add in The New Black Jacks.

[NeanderCarl]

Two Dudes with Attitudes were HBK and Diesel circa...03 maybe?

Try 1995.

They were a genuine tag team and World tag team champions in 1994, split up at the end of the year, had a short feud and reteamed as faces as the Two Dudes With Attitudes, but to be honest were just another "super pairing" during the "Two Dudes..." phase, thrown together for a short run against Yokozuna and Owen Hart because there were no credible singles heels for them to face.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Two world champs don't equal an elite tag team anyway. By your theory we could add in The New Black Jacks.

By very permise of this thread, it does.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Try 1995.

They were a genuine tag team and World tag team champions in 1994, split up at the end of the year, had a short feud and reteamed as faces as the Two Dudes With Attitudes, but to be honest were just another "super pairing" during the "Two Dudes..." phase, thrown together for a short run against Yokozuna and Owen Hart because there were no credible singles heels for them to face.

Meant 93 actually... still off but bad key in :o

[HeartBreakMan2k]

And I remember watching those matches. Still makes me laugh. I forget which match but Shawn slid between Yoko's legs avoiding a shoulder block or summit and slapped Yoko on the ass a few times. Was friggin hilarious to me back in the day.

[NeanderCarl]

Maybe an "elite" team should consist of members who held conflicting World titles ie. one member was WWE World champ, the other was NWA/WCW World champ, but each never held the other (if that makes sense?)


This would leave Edge and Christian and APA as the two "elitest" real tag teams, by my estimation, although I admittedly haven't put much thought into it. There may be more.

[NeanderCarl]

Meant 93 actually... still off but bad key in :o

1993 was when they were first paired, with Diesel as Shawn's bodyguard, but they teamed infrequently. In fact, Diesel barely wrestled for the first year he was in WWE, which made it rather surprising when he beat Razor Ramon for the I-C title and challenged Bret Hart for the World title at King Of The Ring a month later. I was like "when the fuck did Diesel get so good?", as a confused 11yr old mark.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Well, Van Dam and Sabu would still make the cut. Van Dam - WWE, Sabu - ECW. Then we could add some considering AWA as well.

[NeanderCarl]

Maybe an "elite" team should consist of members who held conflicting World titles ie. one member was WWE World champ, the other was NWA/WCW World champ, but each never held the other (if that makes sense?)

This would leave Edge and Christian and APA as the two "elitest" real tag teams, by my estimation, although I admittedly haven't put much thought into it. There may be more.

Yeah, the Blade Runners would also make the "elite" list.

[NeanderCarl]

Well, Van Dam and Sabu would still make the cut. Van Dam - WWE, Sabu - ECW. Then we could add some considering AWA as well.

I consider Van Dam and Sabu more as associates than a real tag team. They have often teamed up, but never been promoted as a genuine tag team, had a lengthy run at a tag team title, or worked almost exclusively in tag matches during any time. They mainly had the common factor of a career long association and Bill Alfonso.

[Bad Company]

Steiners

[NeanderCarl]

Rick Steiner never held a World title, did he?

[Road Warrior]

Rick Steiner never held a World title, did he?
No, I said Doom earlier, but wasn't sue if Butch Reed ever held a world title.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

For like.... World League Wrestling or some shit like that... doesn't count though.

[Road Warrior]

For like.... World League Wrestling or some shit like that... doesn't count though.
I thought he might of held AWA or NWA, wasn't sure.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

That was in reference to Rick, I don't think ever held a world title. Not even for a smaller territory... well maybe like mid south or something. Yeah, neither count.

[NeanderCarl]

Rick Steiner has never held the World singles title in any fed.

[Jeritron]

He has, however, had a promo cut on him by Chucky the killer doll.

[NeanderCarl]

You can't really count the ECW World title, until last year anyway, as a real "World" title as it was hardly ever defended anywhere but the East coast of America. A real World title should, really, be defended around the world.

By that definition, even the Japanese World titles are hard to defend as "world" titles. Only the WWE, NWA and WCW titles can really lay claim to this.

[Theo Dious]

No he didn't. For some reason WWE decided to vacate the World Heavywieght championship in the 2006 Wrestlemainia and it wasn't until Judgement day that WWE decided to reactivate the title and award it to King Booker.

Isn't it true that any time a World title is declared vacant, the officially recognized champion is Kevin Nash until such time as the matter is officially settled?

[hb2k]

Any time the APA makes a list of anything elite, the list becomes meaningless.

[Theo Dious]

Any time the APA makes a list of anything elite, the list becomes meaningless.

Yeah, you don't like them so they're worthless. You're talking about a pair of guys who've been world champions, WWF/WWE tag champions, one US and HC champion, the other WCW tag champion, and I don't even know what others. They've both been main event players, and they were a long-running, dominant tag team. Ron Simmons was the first black man to be a World Heavyweight champion, for fuck's sake. And JBL wrestled a damn bear in his youth. They'll both be in the hall of fame. And deservedly so. So take that cock out of your mouth and show some respect.

[hb2k]

And put the glasses on your eyes and point out where I said I didn't like them.

I did like them, but historically speaking they did more as singles than as a tag team (as you pointed out), their role as a unit was as background players, so justify how they're any kind of elite team when they weren't even the top team of the era they were in. Not even top 3.

[Theo Dious]

Any time the APA makes a list of anything elite, the list becomes meaningless.

How are we supposed to take "they were more elite alone than together, and while I acknowledge their individual accomplishments, as a tag team they were less than amazing" from that?

[hb2k]

Because I called them the APA, not Ron Simmons and JBL. And I stick to it, when the APA makes a list of anything elite, the list is a joke.

[Theo Dious]

Take a few minutes to absorb the point of the thread. This is all about teams that were made up of guys with tremendous personal success. You're telling me that Kane and the Undertaker had that much more success than APA as a team? The only thing they managed to do that APA never did was hold the WCW and WWF tag titles at the same time.

[hb2k]

You're telling me that Kane and the Undertaker had that much more success than APA as a team?

They were more important when they were a team than the APA was. Really the entire point of the thread is absurd, to rank the elite status of teams on what they did outside the team. But read it as a standalone thing - Elite Tag Teams: APA. It's ridiculous.

[Theo Dious]

In terms of this thread, elite team=a team consisting of guys who were great personal successes. You're telling me that a team that consisted of a former and future world champion, who themselves were tag team champions, and who now are one of the best commentators in the business and a man who can get a huge pop with ONE WORD? That's not an elite team? Like hell it isn't.

[hb2k]

In terms of athe absurd premise then maybe, but if you asked anyone to name an elite group of the five greatest tag teams of all time based on ability/success, not one person would mention the APA. And still, if you can justify putting the APA on any list of elitism, then the whole idea is instantly shot to hell.

[BigDaddyCool]

Isn't it true that any time a World title is declared vacant, the officially recognized champion is Kevin Nash until such time as the matter is officially settled?

Sadly no, he just holds on to the title until the matter is settled.

[lort]

Two Man Power Trip is one of my favourite names for a tag team.

Legitimate in every way!

[The One]

In terms of athe absurd premise then maybe, but if you asked anyone to name an elite group of the five greatest tag teams of all time based on ability/success, not one person would mention the APA. And still, if you can justify putting the APA on any list of elitism, then the whole idea is instantly shot to hell.

Actually I have heard someone on these boards say the APA was their favorite tag team of all time. Can't remember who, would have to look up RTTT to see for sure. The APA was a great team. It made money, it got over, and while I liked it more when it was just the Acolytes, the APA was fun itself. I think in a historical sense, the APA was one of the most elite tag teams of all time. Ron Simmons wins the WCW World Title being the first black guy to do that, he jumps over to WWE, then begins to team with someone who historically couldn't get over no matter who they paired with him, they take off, leaning in no way on the past success of Ron Simmons, but just forge their own legacy. Not the single most influential tag team of all time, but certainly legit and a money maker. They split the team and with the heat off that alone they create a new character for Bradshaw and give him the WWE Championship in less then 3 months. One former and one future World Champ, several years teaming, breifly having a less impactful reunited run, 3 Tag Team Title runs. That's one fucking legendary team right there.

[Theo Dious]

leaning in no way on the past success of Ron Simmons

That's a topic to itself. The WWF had the first ever black World champion on their hands, and never really mentioned it. I'm a bit embarrassed to admit it, but I never knew that Farooq and Ron Simmons were the same guy until like 2003.

Hey, I wasn't on the Internet in the 90s!!!

[hb2k]

And that's fair enough to say they were a favourite team, I enjoyed the hell out of them too, the bar fight angles they'd do on Raw were awesome, great memories of them beating the shit out of the Posse, and doing the hencemen or hire angle. But I'd say there's a big difference to a team you enjoy and one in an elite group, because once you admit the APA as a team, you can admit about 25 other teams along with them.

For example, the Hollywood Blondes were an unbelieveably entertaining team, were higher on the card than the APA ever were, and outside the team Austin was the biggest draw in the history of the business and Pillman revolutionized wrestling from a character standpoint and even earlier than that, by breaking so many barriers as a smaller guy. But they were only together for six months before they got split up unjustly. If the APA qualifies, then the Blondes do as well, even though as a team their run was too short to put them on an all-time elite list.

[CSL]

<font color=white>The Vegas Connection (DDP & Vinnie Vegas)

Or do they have to have been Tag Champs?</font>

[Theo Dious]

And that's fair enough to say they were a favourite team, I enjoyed the hell out of them too, the bar fight angles they'd do on Raw were awesome, great memories of them beating the shit out of the Posse, and doing the hencemen or hire angle. But I'd say there's a big difference to a team you enjoy and one in an elite group, because once you admit the APA as a team, you can admit about 25 other teams along with them.

For example, the Hollywood Blondes were an unbelieveably entertaining team, were higher on the card than the APA ever were, and outside the team Austin was the biggest draw in the history of the business and Pillman revolutionized wrestling from a character standpoint and even earlier than that, by breaking so many barriers as a smaller guy. But they were only together for six months before they got split up unjustly. If the APA qualifies, then the Blondes do as well, even though as a team their run was too short to put them on an all-time elite list.

You want to know the difference? Go to any wrestling show. Ask 25 random people who the Hollywood Blondes were. Then ask them who the APA were. Observe the results.

[hb2k]

Well of course time periods plays a factor - WCW 93 Vs. WWF in the hottest period in wrestling history, of course there's a difference, but that's like saying Prince Albert belongs at a level of elitism over Dusty Rhodes because he was part of wrestling at the right time, regardless of influence or importance.

[The One]

Even the most common of marks will know Dusty Rhodes name over A-Train's. Bad analogy.

[hb2k]

I disagree though - the level of wrestling's popularity in 1998-2000 is so incredibly far beyond what it was in the 80's, its so much of a bigger production now that it's almost funny. The only thing to change the analogy is the fact that Dusty's name and face have been used a little on WWE TV for the past year, but it's still the case that guys like Droz and Albert were seen by more people than huge stars in the business that proceeded them.

[Jeritron]

No dude, that was a terrible analogy. I get what you're saying with it, and I agree with the idea of what you're trying to get across, but that was just a poor analogy.

[Theo Dious]

Well of course time periods plays a factor - WCW 93 Vs. WWF in the hottest period in wrestling history, of course there's a difference, but that's like saying Prince Albert belongs at a level of elitism over Dusty Rhodes because he was part of wrestling at the right time, regardless of influence or importance.

That wasn't what I was referring to. APA defined both of its members for years. Without it, Bradshaw would have been some nameless jobber and Simmons would be "that guy that was Farooq." Without APA, neither of those guys would have become what they are. The Hollywood Blondes is a quirky footnote in Austin and Pillman's career. Something that we look at now and think "Damn, look what those guys became."

[hb2k]

Right, but what the APA was is a midcard team that wasn't in the top 3 teams of its own era, and while they did a lot on their own to be respected, its not like they as that team are that big of a deal in the history of wrestling.

[NeanderCarl]

APA were certainly no Demolition or Road Warriors, but I won't diss them. They were good fun back in the day (until the bell rung anyway... *shudder*)

Anyway, we already established the criteria by which an "Elite" tag team is being judged for the purposes of this thread, and APA make the grade, so it's not really debatable, just fact, whether you were entertained by them or not... they meet the required criteria.

[Blue Demon]

http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/w/welldunn/01.jpg

:shifty:

[NeanderCarl]

http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/w/welldunn/01.jpg

:shifty:

Is anyone actually reading the first post?

[NeanderCarl]

Those bow ties DO scream "elite", to be fair.

[PepperCarrotMan]

Is anyone actually reading the first post?

http://www.genickbruch.com/pics/bios/984.jpg

NO!

[NeanderCarl]

(If I post a photo of the Pepperami man, and imply that it is Lashley, in response to that last post... does that make me racist?)

(Surely not?)

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e203/neandercarl/pepperami.jpg

Ah, well. What's the matter, Lashley? Too spicy for ya?

[srnrew]

http://www.themidnightexpress.com/dalzell.jpg

The Greatest ever!