What made wrestling so great back in 1999-2000?

[The Naitch]

I know there was competition in the fact that they wanted to kill WCW off right away

Also, the majority of us were still in our adolescent peak in the fact that it was okay to watch wrestling at our age. It was the cool thing to do. It wasn't embarrassing to admit that you watched wrestling back then.

We were all waiting for tghe much anticipated Austin vs. The Rock match up to take place. Especially since they were both babyfaces. It was kinda teased here and there

I, personally, was awaiting for The Rock to get the strap one more time since leaving the Corporation

Triple H was a great heel. In his peak right then

Smackdown helped exposed new viewers to the product. It workked for me. I didn;'t get RAW, I would only watch at my buddies' house. I could only get Smackdown on UPN.

[Reavant]

wcw vs wwf

[Mercury Bullet]

I think you covered a lot of it...

I think a big part was just that the "big stars" were bigger then, and we don't have that level at the top anymore. Rock, Austin, Past Triple H, Foley, Past Taker, etc...think about them as opposed to Cena, Edge, Orton, Present HBK, Present Triple H, Present Taker. The big draws/stars/whatever we're just a bigger deal then and they we're largely responsible for what kept it so interesting.

That's my take on it a little, anyway.

And, just to point out, its not that i'm really ripping Edge and Orton it's just that a few years back you had the biggest stars EVER in wrestling all at their peak together pretty much. You just don't have that now, Edge isn't The Rock and the Triple H of today isn't the Triple H of yesteryear.

[IC Champion]

The Rock, Mick Foley, Austin.

[KayfabeMan]

I liked the competition factor.

Plus, so many of my favorite guys were at least still around back then - and the matches on most of the programs were higher quality than they would be in later years.

[Londoner]

It felt like anything could happen, now it feels too restricted though that is getting better with the restrictions being lifted from the roster split.

[Dave Youell]

I'm about to get stoned to death....

Russo

Hear me out, he created really good TV when he was on the leash and getting the shit filtered out. Back then RAW had waaay more angles and less wrestling, they didn't just focus one 1 or 2 stories, they focused on 6 or 7 at a time, so if you don't like one storyline, you'll see another one in the next segment.

Right now it's all McMahon, or a while back it was all DX on one show, which is overkill.

[ttetf]

good writing

[Londoner]

they focused on 6 or 7 at a time, so if you don't like one storyline, you'll see another one in the next segment.

That's the key and that's what i was getting at i think.

[Super V]

Russo
:y: :yes: :y:

[Dave Youell]

Plus they had the best Mid Card they've ever had.

[Loose Cannon]

fuck, when you have Angle, Benoit, Jericho and Guerrero as your mid card and the the awesome tag division topped off with HHH/ROCK/AUSTin/Taker/Foley as the main event, there was no stopping the WWE. Top that off with great angles and writing and you have a winner.

See, the WWE is now where they should have been 3 years ago. They are still rebuilding. They need to have that strong backbone like they did from 1997-2001. They have made 4, maybe 5, guys in the past 5 years. One guy light years above the rest.

[BigDaddyCool]

One word: Klyq.

nWo was huge, and Klyq.
DX was huge, and Klyq.
Austin was huge and got over by defeating HBK cleaning (Klyq).

I'm not saying the Austin, Rock, Goldberg and all the others didn't do their parts, but most of it started because of the Kliq. Alls I'm saying is that if Scott Hall and Kevin Nash never jumped ship and spurred the whole wrestling explosion, then then Austin and Rock would not have reached the levels they did because the audience would not have been there.

K4L

[St. Jimmy]

I liked 2002-2003 when Triple H just shanghaied Raw.

[Stickman]

Talent

[Goulet]

Austin was huge and got over by defeating HBK cleaning (Klyq).



This is the only point I would argue... Austin was already the most over guy on the roster before he beat HBK. And he got over by himself in '96 at the KOTR

[Zen v.W.o.]

It was greater in 96-98.

[Zen v.W.o.]

One word: Klyq.

nWo was huge, and Klyq.
DX was huge, and Klyq.
Austin was huge and got over by defeating HBK cleaning (Klyq).

I'm not saying the Austin, Rock, Goldberg and all the others didn't do their parts, but most of it started because of the Kliq. Alls I'm saying is that if Scott Hall and Kevin Nash never jumped ship and spurred the whole wrestling explosion, then then Austin and Rock would not have reached the levels they did because the audience would not have been there.

K4L

Austin would credit the Harts way more than HBK. In fact, Bret helped Austin become that man who would catapult the company. HBK didnt even wanna job to him, lmao.

[Volare]

How instead of 1 main face vs 1 main heel, WWE had an ass load of huge names they could pick and mix and match any way they choosed

[Jordan]

I think the competition between WWF/WCW/ECW was what made it exciting for me. I was an IWC kid and I loved hearing all the shit going on off screen.

[BigDaddyCool]

This is the only point I would argue... Austin was already the most over guy on the roster before he beat HBK. And he got over by himself in '96 at the KOTR

Decent point. But this was a changing of the guard. HBK was the last maineventer from his era/generation and Austin was the first maineventer of the Attitude Era. While Austin would have been champion with or without Shawn, it wouldn't have ment as much. I mean all fanboy bullshit aside, this was an important event in wrestling. It is hard to pin point the exact date the Attitude Era began and the New Superstar Era ended (I think that is what they were calling the early 90's in the WWF). It could be argued that it was a transition not an even break, but that match is where you can say it was the absolute end of the New Superstar Era and we were firmly in the Attidtude era.

[Mercury Bullet]

Decent point. But this was a changing of the guard. HBK was the last maineventer from his era/generation and Austin was the first maineventer of the Attitude Era. While Austin would have been champion with or without Shawn, it wouldn't have ment as much. I mean all fanboy bullshit aside, this was an important event in wrestling. It is hard to pin point the exact date the Attitude Era began and the New Superstar Era ended (I think that is what they were calling the early 90's in the WWF). It could be argued that it was a transition not an even break, but that match is where you can say it was the absolute end of the New Superstar Era and we were firmly in the Attidtude era.

I totally agree. I think Austin going over HBK changed the landscape of wrestling as much as any other single event has. Probably one of if not the biggest matches and biggest shifts in wrestling history.

[Innovator]

*Before WM XIV main event*

Taker (to HHH and Chyna while taping up his fists): If he doesn't drop the title, I'm dropping him.

[BigDaddyCool]

*Before WM XIV main event*

Taker (to HHH and Chyna while taping up his fists): If he doesn't drop the title, I'm dropping him.

That is a fairly moot point.

[PepperCarrotMan]

X-Pac made wrestling great 1999-2000.

X-Pac.

[BigDaddyCool]

X-Pac made wrestling great 1999-2000.

X-Pac.

:rofl:

[Goulet]

Decent point. But this was a changing of the guard. HBK was the last maineventer from his era/generation and Austin was the first maineventer of the Attitude Era. While Austin would have been champion with or without Shawn, it wouldn't have ment as much. I mean all fanboy bullshit aside, this was an important event in wrestling. It is hard to pin point the exact date the Attitude Era began and the New Superstar Era ended (I think that is what they were calling the early 90's in the WWF). It could be argued that it was a transition not an even break, but that match is where you can say it was the absolute end of the New Superstar Era and we were firmly in the Attidtude era.

I agree that it was a "changing of the guard" definately. My original point was the fact that Shawn didn't get Austin over, he was already over. Now you could make the point that he put him over even more than he was mind you.

[Pepsi Man]

I honestly didn't see it as "so great". I wasn't really looking forward to Austin vs. Rock, having never been an Austin fan, and that just never meant much to me at all.

I also didn't like Triple H. To this day, I'm not big on him, even though I do respect him. Mind you, I'm not talking about what was "popular" or what "worked" as far as getting ratings and buys; just MY own view on what was "great" and what wasn't.

[BigDaddyCool]

I agree that it was a "changing of the guard" definately. My original point was the fact that Shawn didn't get Austin over, he was already over. Now you could make the point that he put him over even more than he was mind you.

Yeah, that is what I was kinda getting at. Micheals was the last little umph to get Stone Cold going at full force, or whatever.

[Stickman]

I honestly didn't see it as "so great". I wasn't really looking forward to Austin vs. Rock, having never been an Austin fan, and that just never meant much to me at all.

I also didn't like Triple H. To this day, I'm not big on him, even though I do respect him. Mind you, I'm not talking about what was "popular" or what "worked" as far as getting ratings and buys; just MY own view on what was "great" and what wasn't.

Then why did you watch if that era wasn't great?

[Mr. Nerfect]

One word: Klyq.

nWo was huge, and Klyq.
DX was huge, and Klyq.
Austin was huge and got over by defeating HBK cleaning (Klyq).

I'm not saying the Austin, Rock, Goldberg and all the others didn't do their parts, but most of it started because of the Kliq. Alls I'm saying is that if Scott Hall and Kevin Nash never jumped ship and spurred the whole wrestling explosion, then then Austin and Rock would not have reached the levels they did because the audience would not have been there.

K4L

I disagree. Not entirely, but when it comes to the Kliq thing, I do.

nWo was huge and DX was fun. I don't think anyone would have known or cared at the time that they were the Kliq.

I guess you're arguing more on a subtle level, but if that is the case, then it could also be argued that a bird shitting in Mr Frank Weatherly of Pittsburg's car was responsible for the boom. I mean, if the bird didn't shit on his car, we don't know what would have happened.

Stone Cold Steve Austin going over is something I remember, and I wasn't even a wrestling fan. Everyone around here cared about Austin winning his first WWE Championship. I didn't even hear Shawn Michaels mentioned. I like him and all, and he and Austin had a fantastic match at WrestleMania XIV, but the new era was more ushered in by Austin winning than HBK losing, in my opinion. Shawn Michaels losing was just icing on the cake, and him getting socked by Mike Tyson was just further icing.

[Destor]

Then why did you watch if that era wasn't great?...

[KayfabeMan]

SCIENCE

FICTION

:shifty:

[Mr. Nerfect]

I agree with Dave Youell's point. I'm not sure if I'd exactly attribute it to Russo, but the levels and layers of a show at that time made them seem huge. I just realised that is why I also love SmackDown! these days. Every match has its own weight and story.

Everything on RAW seems rush, rush. Plus, you get the impression that Jim Ross and Jerry Lawler would rather just skip to the main event. The show is no longer what is important. The Cena looking strong at the end moment is. They seem to be changing that now, and it is good to see.

Even Heat, which I follow quite regularly, seems to be getting a make-over as such. Val Venis and Chris Masters have been working a little program there. It's not going to set the world on fire, but it was refreshing to see a guy lose a match, then demand an instant rematch, and go over, setting up a rubber contest for the following week.

I think the WWE is remembering that you couldn't miss a show back in the day. Now you can just get the details in a video that begins the show. Who cares if you didn't set your TiVo? I think the WWE best get rid of recap videos. It'll save time for matches, promos, and it gives each moment a "must watch" feel. Because if you aren't going to access the show, no one is.

So yeah, what made the Attitude era great, in my opinion:

-Focus on all areas, not just the main event
-Each show thus became important and could deservingly hold your focus

[Pepsi Man]

Then why did you watch if that era wasn't great?
So now in order for me to view something on television, I first have to be of the opinion it's "great"? But I don't WANNA give up watching TNA, ECW, SmackDown!, and most Raws lately. :(

[Kane Knight]

Wrestlers who could lose and still look good.

Austin.
The Rock.
Mick Foley.

An upper-midcard which was believable when put into the main event. Even the jobbers looked good. Sure, nobody thought Richards or Venis was taking the title, but it beats the guys currently on the "Undercard."

Believability in general. Wrestling is a lie, but they made it a lie we wanted to believe. It felt like anything could happen. These days, you don't get many "out of nowhere" moves, the matches feel like they can only go one way, etc.

Spots. This hurts the industry as several people really stepped shit up. The downside is you get the aftermath--TNA. Totally Nonsensical Acrobatics.

Organic comedy segments that were funny, instead of JUST a catchphrase. Edge and Christian sort of stuff. Cena's one of the worst offenders, but "Damn" is just as bad.

[PepperCarrotMan]

Wrestlers who could lose and still look good.

Austin.
The Rock.
Mick Foley.

An upper-midcard which was believable when put into the main event. Even the jobbers looked good. Sure, nobody thought Richards or Venis was taking the title, but it beats the guys currently on the "Undercard."

Believability in general. Wrestling is a lie, but they made it a lie we wanted to believe. It felt like anything could happen. These days, you don't get many "out of nowhere" moves, the matches feel like they can only go one way, etc.

Spots. This hurts the industry as several people really stepped shit up. The downside is you get the aftermath--TNA. Totally Nonsensical Acrobatics.

Organic comedy segments that were funny, instead of JUST a catchphrase. Edge and Christian sort of stuff. Cena's one of the worst offenders, but "Damn" is just as bad.


...DAMN!

[BigDaddyCool]

I disagree. Not entirely, but when it comes to the Kliq thing, I do.

nWo was huge and DX was fun. I don't think anyone would have known or cared at the time that they were the Kliq.

I guess you're arguing more on a subtle level, but if that is the case, then it could also be argued that a bird shitting in Mr Frank Weatherly of Pittsburg's car was responsible for the boom. I mean, if the bird didn't shit on his car, we don't know what would have happened.

Stone Cold Steve Austin going over is something I remember, and I wasn't even a wrestling fan. Everyone around here cared about Austin winning his first WWE Championship. I didn't even hear Shawn Michaels mentioned. I like him and all, and he and Austin had a fantastic match at WrestleMania XIV, but the new era was more ushered in by Austin winning than HBK losing, in my opinion. Shawn Michaels losing was just icing on the cake, and him getting socked by Mike Tyson was just further icing.

No, you are being dumb. It didn't matter if we knew them as the Kliq or not, because they were the Kliq, and they were nWo and DX.

[IC Champion]

Im actually watching the RAW from about April-June of 1999. I Just watched the one Where Austin becomes CEO.

[IC Champion]

Also Triple H was still refered to as "Hunter" and as "Helmsley" rather than just Triple H

[Kane Knight]

Oh, and variety.

The last few years, we've had constant champions. Triple H, then Cena.

[IC Champion]

How about the Cliff hanger endings?
It made you not wanna miss a minute of RAW the next week. That was because there was WCW, now they know if you want to want wrestling there only one place to go.

[Kane Knight]

How about the Cliff hanger endings?
It made you not wanna miss a minute of RAW the next week. That was because there was WCW, now they know if you want to want wrestling there only one place to go.

Yeah, and the whole "After we went off the air" suspense was sometimes the best part of the show. Though they overused it.

They could even use it to hype WWE.com. Show the occasional "cliffhanger" result right on the website.

[IC Champion]

What about the whole "Anything Can Happen In the WWF" and it actually happening.

Like when Vince turned out to "The Greater Power" and behind the whole Corporate Ministry. Then Linda coming out and announcing Stone Cold as the new CEO. Theres no more of that "Up" and "Down" feeling you would get while watching a show.

I can go back and watch a RAW from '99 and mark out more times in one show then I have in the last year and a half of wrestling I've been watching.

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, I mean, we knew it was staged, so anything COULDN'T really happen, but it felt that way.

[IC Champion]

Also GD/GTV, Hardcore Title, and Triple H doing jobs.

[BigDaddyCool]

Honestly, I like the idea of long title runs, they just need to find guys who can do it without being annoying and can last longer than a month.

[IC Champion]

Remeber when Patterson and Briscroe used the Real American Theme? lol

[IC Champion]

Yea so i just watch Patterson and Briscoe get attacked by the Mean Street Posse(lol) and Mideon and Viscera. Anyways Viscera Splashes Patterson and Jr says "Thats the largest man thats ever been on top of Patterson."

LOL Classic 1999

[My Final Heaven]

...DAMN!

I always preferred Ron Simmon's catchphrase from Superbrawl, the SNES game. "Shubbuh duh Spuh!!!!" :D