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Old 05-04-2007, 12:14 AM   #1
The Naitch
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What made wrestling so great back in 1999-2000?

I know there was competition in the fact that they wanted to kill WCW off right away

Also, the majority of us were still in our adolescent peak in the fact that it was okay to watch wrestling at our age. It was the cool thing to do. It wasn't embarrassing to admit that you watched wrestling back then.

We were all waiting for tghe much anticipated Austin vs. The Rock match up to take place. Especially since they were both babyfaces. It was kinda teased here and there

I, personally, was awaiting for The Rock to get the strap one more time since leaving the Corporation

Triple H was a great heel. In his peak right then

Smackdown helped exposed new viewers to the product. It workked for me. I didn;'t get RAW, I would only watch at my buddies' house. I could only get Smackdown on UPN.






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Old 05-04-2007, 12:22 AM   #2
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wcw vs wwf
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Old 05-04-2007, 12:24 AM   #3
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I think you covered a lot of it...

I think a big part was just that the "big stars" were bigger then, and we don't have that level at the top anymore. Rock, Austin, Past Triple H, Foley, Past Taker, etc...think about them as opposed to Cena, Edge, Orton, Present HBK, Present Triple H, Present Taker. The big draws/stars/whatever we're just a bigger deal then and they we're largely responsible for what kept it so interesting.

That's my take on it a little, anyway.

And, just to point out, its not that i'm really ripping Edge and Orton it's just that a few years back you had the biggest stars EVER in wrestling all at their peak together pretty much. You just don't have that now, Edge isn't The Rock and the Triple H of today isn't the Triple H of yesteryear.
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Old 05-04-2007, 12:24 AM   #4
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The Rock, Mick Foley, Austin.
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Old 05-04-2007, 12:27 AM   #5
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I liked the competition factor.

Plus, so many of my favorite guys were at least still around back then - and the matches on most of the programs were higher quality than they would be in later years.
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Old 05-04-2007, 02:01 AM   #6
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It felt like anything could happen, now it feels too restricted though that is getting better with the restrictions being lifted from the roster split.
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Old 05-04-2007, 06:30 AM   #7
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I'm about to get stoned to death....

Russo

Hear me out, he created really good TV when he was on the leash and getting the shit filtered out. Back then RAW had waaay more angles and less wrestling, they didn't just focus one 1 or 2 stories, they focused on 6 or 7 at a time, so if you don't like one storyline, you'll see another one in the next segment.

Right now it's all McMahon, or a while back it was all DX on one show, which is overkill.
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Old 05-04-2007, 07:18 AM   #8
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good writing
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Old 05-04-2007, 07:22 AM   #9
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they focused on 6 or 7 at a time, so if you don't like one storyline, you'll see another one in the next segment.

That's the key and that's what i was getting at i think.
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Old 05-04-2007, 07:28 AM   #10
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Russo
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Old 05-04-2007, 07:34 AM   #11
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Plus they had the best Mid Card they've ever had.
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Old 05-04-2007, 10:40 AM   #12
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Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
fuck, when you have Angle, Benoit, Jericho and Guerrero as your mid card and the the awesome tag division topped off with HHH/ROCK/AUSTin/Taker/Foley as the main event, there was no stopping the WWE. Top that off with great angles and writing and you have a winner.

See, the WWE is now where they should have been 3 years ago. They are still rebuilding. They need to have that strong backbone like they did from 1997-2001. They have made 4, maybe 5, guys in the past 5 years. One guy light years above the rest.
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Old 05-04-2007, 10:51 AM   #13
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One word: Klyq.

nWo was huge, and Klyq.
DX was huge, and Klyq.
Austin was huge and got over by defeating HBK cleaning (Klyq).

I'm not saying the Austin, Rock, Goldberg and all the others didn't do their parts, but most of it started because of the Kliq. Alls I'm saying is that if Scott Hall and Kevin Nash never jumped ship and spurred the whole wrestling explosion, then then Austin and Rock would not have reached the levels they did because the audience would not have been there.

K4L
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Old 05-04-2007, 12:26 PM   #14
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I liked 2002-2003 when Triple H just shanghaied Raw.
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Old 05-04-2007, 02:25 PM   #15
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Talent
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Old 05-04-2007, 02:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
Austin was huge and got over by defeating HBK cleaning (Klyq).
This is the only point I would argue... Austin was already the most over guy on the roster before he beat HBK. And he got over by himself in '96 at the KOTR
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Old 05-04-2007, 02:39 PM   #17
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It was greater in 96-98.
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Old 05-04-2007, 02:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
One word: Klyq.

nWo was huge, and Klyq.
DX was huge, and Klyq.
Austin was huge and got over by defeating HBK cleaning (Klyq).

I'm not saying the Austin, Rock, Goldberg and all the others didn't do their parts, but most of it started because of the Kliq. Alls I'm saying is that if Scott Hall and Kevin Nash never jumped ship and spurred the whole wrestling explosion, then then Austin and Rock would not have reached the levels they did because the audience would not have been there.

K4L
Austin would credit the Harts way more than HBK. In fact, Bret helped Austin become that man who would catapult the company. HBK didnt even wanna job to him, lmao.
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Old 05-04-2007, 03:23 PM   #19
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How instead of 1 main face vs 1 main heel, WWE had an ass load of huge names they could pick and mix and match any way they choosed
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Old 05-04-2007, 03:26 PM   #20
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I think the competition between WWF/WCW/ECW was what made it exciting for me. I was an IWC kid and I loved hearing all the shit going on off screen.
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Old 05-04-2007, 03:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goulet
This is the only point I would argue... Austin was already the most over guy on the roster before he beat HBK. And he got over by himself in '96 at the KOTR
Decent point. But this was a changing of the guard. HBK was the last maineventer from his era/generation and Austin was the first maineventer of the Attitude Era. While Austin would have been champion with or without Shawn, it wouldn't have ment as much. I mean all fanboy bullshit aside, this was an important event in wrestling. It is hard to pin point the exact date the Attitude Era began and the New Superstar Era ended (I think that is what they were calling the early 90's in the WWF). It could be argued that it was a transition not an even break, but that match is where you can say it was the absolute end of the New Superstar Era and we were firmly in the Attidtude era.
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Old 05-04-2007, 04:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
Decent point. But this was a changing of the guard. HBK was the last maineventer from his era/generation and Austin was the first maineventer of the Attitude Era. While Austin would have been champion with or without Shawn, it wouldn't have ment as much. I mean all fanboy bullshit aside, this was an important event in wrestling. It is hard to pin point the exact date the Attitude Era began and the New Superstar Era ended (I think that is what they were calling the early 90's in the WWF). It could be argued that it was a transition not an even break, but that match is where you can say it was the absolute end of the New Superstar Era and we were firmly in the Attidtude era.
I totally agree. I think Austin going over HBK changed the landscape of wrestling as much as any other single event has. Probably one of if not the biggest matches and biggest shifts in wrestling history.
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Old 05-04-2007, 04:15 PM   #23
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*Before WM XIV main event*

Taker (to HHH and Chyna while taping up his fists): If he doesn't drop the title, I'm dropping him.
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Old 05-04-2007, 04:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator
*Before WM XIV main event*

Taker (to HHH and Chyna while taping up his fists): If he doesn't drop the title, I'm dropping him.
That is a fairly moot point.
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Old 05-04-2007, 04:20 PM   #25
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X-Pac made wrestling great 1999-2000.

X-Pac.
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Old 05-04-2007, 04:21 PM   #26
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X-Pac made wrestling great 1999-2000.

X-Pac.
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Old 05-04-2007, 04:28 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
Decent point. But this was a changing of the guard. HBK was the last maineventer from his era/generation and Austin was the first maineventer of the Attitude Era. While Austin would have been champion with or without Shawn, it wouldn't have ment as much. I mean all fanboy bullshit aside, this was an important event in wrestling. It is hard to pin point the exact date the Attitude Era began and the New Superstar Era ended (I think that is what they were calling the early 90's in the WWF). It could be argued that it was a transition not an even break, but that match is where you can say it was the absolute end of the New Superstar Era and we were firmly in the Attidtude era.
I agree that it was a "changing of the guard" definately. My original point was the fact that Shawn didn't get Austin over, he was already over. Now you could make the point that he put him over even more than he was mind you.
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Old 05-04-2007, 04:33 PM   #28
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I honestly didn't see it as "so great". I wasn't really looking forward to Austin vs. Rock, having never been an Austin fan, and that just never meant much to me at all.

I also didn't like Triple H. To this day, I'm not big on him, even though I do respect him. Mind you, I'm not talking about what was "popular" or what "worked" as far as getting ratings and buys; just MY own view on what was "great" and what wasn't.
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Old 05-04-2007, 04:38 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goulet
I agree that it was a "changing of the guard" definately. My original point was the fact that Shawn didn't get Austin over, he was already over. Now you could make the point that he put him over even more than he was mind you.
Yeah, that is what I was kinda getting at. Micheals was the last little umph to get Stone Cold going at full force, or whatever.
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Old 05-04-2007, 06:18 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi Man
I honestly didn't see it as "so great". I wasn't really looking forward to Austin vs. Rock, having never been an Austin fan, and that just never meant much to me at all.

I also didn't like Triple H. To this day, I'm not big on him, even though I do respect him. Mind you, I'm not talking about what was "popular" or what "worked" as far as getting ratings and buys; just MY own view on what was "great" and what wasn't.
Then why did you watch if that era wasn't great?
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Old 05-04-2007, 06:32 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool
One word: Klyq.

nWo was huge, and Klyq.
DX was huge, and Klyq.
Austin was huge and got over by defeating HBK cleaning (Klyq).

I'm not saying the Austin, Rock, Goldberg and all the others didn't do their parts, but most of it started because of the Kliq. Alls I'm saying is that if Scott Hall and Kevin Nash never jumped ship and spurred the whole wrestling explosion, then then Austin and Rock would not have reached the levels they did because the audience would not have been there.

K4L
I disagree. Not entirely, but when it comes to the Kliq thing, I do.

nWo was huge and DX was fun. I don't think anyone would have known or cared at the time that they were the Kliq.

I guess you're arguing more on a subtle level, but if that is the case, then it could also be argued that a bird shitting in Mr Frank Weatherly of Pittsburg's car was responsible for the boom. I mean, if the bird didn't shit on his car, we don't know what would have happened.

Stone Cold Steve Austin going over is something I remember, and I wasn't even a wrestling fan. Everyone around here cared about Austin winning his first WWE Championship. I didn't even hear Shawn Michaels mentioned. I like him and all, and he and Austin had a fantastic match at WrestleMania XIV, but the new era was more ushered in by Austin winning than HBK losing, in my opinion. Shawn Michaels losing was just icing on the cake, and him getting socked by Mike Tyson was just further icing.
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Old 05-04-2007, 06:35 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Stickman
Then why did you watch if that era wasn't great?
...
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Old 05-04-2007, 06:37 PM   #33
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SCIENCE

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Old 05-04-2007, 06:41 PM   #34
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I agree with Dave Youell's point. I'm not sure if I'd exactly attribute it to Russo, but the levels and layers of a show at that time made them seem huge. I just realised that is why I also love SmackDown! these days. Every match has its own weight and story.

Everything on RAW seems rush, rush. Plus, you get the impression that Jim Ross and Jerry Lawler would rather just skip to the main event. The show is no longer what is important. The Cena looking strong at the end moment is. They seem to be changing that now, and it is good to see.

Even Heat, which I follow quite regularly, seems to be getting a make-over as such. Val Venis and Chris Masters have been working a little program there. It's not going to set the world on fire, but it was refreshing to see a guy lose a match, then demand an instant rematch, and go over, setting up a rubber contest for the following week.

I think the WWE is remembering that you couldn't miss a show back in the day. Now you can just get the details in a video that begins the show. Who cares if you didn't set your TiVo? I think the WWE best get rid of recap videos. It'll save time for matches, promos, and it gives each moment a "must watch" feel. Because if you aren't going to access the show, no one is.

So yeah, what made the Attitude era great, in my opinion:

-Focus on all areas, not just the main event
-Each show thus became important and could deservingly hold your focus
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Old 05-04-2007, 07:42 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman
Then why did you watch if that era wasn't great?
So now in order for me to view something on television, I first have to be of the opinion it's "great"? But I don't WANNA give up watching TNA, ECW, SmackDown!, and most Raws lately.
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Old 05-04-2007, 08:16 PM   #36
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Wrestlers who could lose and still look good.

Austin.
The Rock.
Mick Foley.

An upper-midcard which was believable when put into the main event. Even the jobbers looked good. Sure, nobody thought Richards or Venis was taking the title, but it beats the guys currently on the "Undercard."

Believability in general. Wrestling is a lie, but they made it a lie we wanted to believe. It felt like anything could happen. These days, you don't get many "out of nowhere" moves, the matches feel like they can only go one way, etc.

Spots. This hurts the industry as several people really stepped shit up. The downside is you get the aftermath--TNA. Totally Nonsensical Acrobatics.

Organic comedy segments that were funny, instead of JUST a catchphrase. Edge and Christian sort of stuff. Cena's one of the worst offenders, but "Damn" is just as bad.
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Old 05-05-2007, 09:19 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Wrestlers who could lose and still look good.

Austin.
The Rock.
Mick Foley.

An upper-midcard which was believable when put into the main event. Even the jobbers looked good. Sure, nobody thought Richards or Venis was taking the title, but it beats the guys currently on the "Undercard."

Believability in general. Wrestling is a lie, but they made it a lie we wanted to believe. It felt like anything could happen. These days, you don't get many "out of nowhere" moves, the matches feel like they can only go one way, etc.

Spots. This hurts the industry as several people really stepped shit up. The downside is you get the aftermath--TNA. Totally Nonsensical Acrobatics.

Organic comedy segments that were funny, instead of JUST a catchphrase. Edge and Christian sort of stuff. Cena's one of the worst offenders, but "Damn" is just as bad.

...DAMN!
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Old 05-05-2007, 12:28 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
I disagree. Not entirely, but when it comes to the Kliq thing, I do.

nWo was huge and DX was fun. I don't think anyone would have known or cared at the time that they were the Kliq.

I guess you're arguing more on a subtle level, but if that is the case, then it could also be argued that a bird shitting in Mr Frank Weatherly of Pittsburg's car was responsible for the boom. I mean, if the bird didn't shit on his car, we don't know what would have happened.

Stone Cold Steve Austin going over is something I remember, and I wasn't even a wrestling fan. Everyone around here cared about Austin winning his first WWE Championship. I didn't even hear Shawn Michaels mentioned. I like him and all, and he and Austin had a fantastic match at WrestleMania XIV, but the new era was more ushered in by Austin winning than HBK losing, in my opinion. Shawn Michaels losing was just icing on the cake, and him getting socked by Mike Tyson was just further icing.
No, you are being dumb. It didn't matter if we knew them as the Kliq or not, because they were the Kliq, and they were nWo and DX.
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Old 05-05-2007, 04:17 PM   #39
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Im actually watching the RAW from about April-June of 1999. I Just watched the one Where Austin becomes CEO.
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Old 05-05-2007, 05:53 PM   #40
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Also Triple H was still refered to as "Hunter" and as "Helmsley" rather than just Triple H
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