So is MMA/UFC/Pride/blahblahblah the "new wrestling"

[road doggy dogg]

Like remember back when WWE ("WWF" sorry) was all popular and the latest fad, everyone was into it and shit. Like not even us internet nerds, it was like accepted in the mainstream. Now it's kind of dwindling, and all the fringe watchers who kind of got into it because of Stone Cold, The Rock etc, they're all going apeshit over mixed martial arts now. I don't get it. Like every person ever is like "OMG UFC THIS WEEKEND ;SDHGSDKHGS *ASPLODE*" And I dunno it seems like basically the exact same thing except it's "more real" and such. Like I know wrestling is fake and all, but guys do still take a bit of a beating in the ring, and it's like people don't take it seriously at all (retarded WWE storylines aside, obvs) because "UFC IS SO MUCH COOLER RAR GO LIGHTWEIGHT MATCH".


I'm not sure what point I'm even trying to make, if any. I just find it hilarious how UFC and shit has basically replaced wrestling as the preferred "watching two guys beat the shit out of each other" pasttime. It's even hilarious too because looking at like this forum, people are all talking about the politics and stuff of it too, kinda like how everyone talks about wrestling and such. It's probably only a matter of time before that stuff becomes scripted too. I don't know. I'm slightly hungover and seeing the pics in the photo album forum of some guy going to an MMA show and having a "tag team MMA match" seemed entirely too gimmicky and made me think about this.

[Reavant]

well everyone can do mma too. It doesnt matter who you are. WWE/F was like watching a soap opera on steroids. When the story lines started to fade so did the fans. Another thing is that when people punch eachother in UFC its real. The wrestlers in WWE dont get puffy faces or black eyes (normally) because theyre not really getting hit (i understand accidents happen and some assholes wrestle stiff). Also like I said UFC translates to real life. WWE translates in absolutly no way, because you cant really slam a guy without severely hurting him and no one is going to stand there and cooperate while you try to vertically suplex them.

In certain promotions there might be fixed fights. I know Pride often told people they would get paid more if they lost a certain way. The greatest thing about Dana White in UFC is that as long as hes at the helm, there will never be a scripted fight in the UFC.

[Rob]

In MMA, guys with talent get pushes and make money. In wrestling they don't.

In MMA, the promoters don't insult their fanbase. In wrestling, they do.

In MMA, the shows are worth paying money for. In wrestling, they aren't.

UFC books feuds that end in a real fight better than WWE or TNA does for 100% worked matches.

RDD - what's the point on commenting on things you just admitted you don't understand?

[road doggy dogg]

In MMA, guys with talent get pushes and make money. In wrestling they don't.

That's exactly what I mean. The whole thing with "pushes", it's like exactly how wrestling is.


In MMA, the promoters don't insult their fanbase. In wrestling, they do.

lol what, opinion


In MMA, the shows are worth paying money for. In wrestling, they aren't.

opinion


UFC books feuds that end in a real fight better than WWE or TNA does for 100% worked matches.

If it's all "real" why do you need to "book" anything, is basically what I'm driving at.


RDD - what's the point on commenting on things you just admitted you don't understand?

What's the point in having a forum at all? Do you have to be an arrogant little faggot just because MMA is a "passion" of yours?

[road doggy dogg]

well everyone can do mma too. It doesnt matter who you are. WWE/F was like watching a soap opera on steroids. When the story lines started to fade so did the fans. Another thing is that when people punch eachother in UFC its real. The wrestlers in WWE dont get puffy faces or black eyes (normally) because theyre not really getting hit (i understand accidents happen and some assholes wrestle stiff). Also like I said UFC translates to real life. WWE translates in absolutly no way, because you cant really slam a guy without severely hurting him and no one is going to stand there and cooperate while you try to vertically suplex them.

Yeah I understand what you mean totally, and yes UFC et all are definitely more real in that regard. But it's silly to think that a wrestler doesn't take any physical punishment throughout the course of a match. It's just funny (to me) how the whole "MMA scene" is basically like a "realer" version of pro wrestling. It's real fighting and such but they still deal with "feuds" and "pushes" and all that other nonsense.


In certain promotions there might be fixed fights. I know Pride often told people they would get paid more if they lost a certain way. The greatest thing about Dana White in UFC is that as long as hes at the helm, there will never be a scripted fight in the UFC.

Haha wow, didn't think any of them actually did fix anyhting, though at this rate I'm not overlyyyy surprised.

[Reavant]

That's exactly what I mean. The whole thing with "pushes", it's like exactly how wrestling is.
They dont really push guys, they just take guys that are on rolls or fan favorites and put them in big matches.




lol what, opinion
He means that the owners dont assume the fans are stupid or that they dont go on the mic and insult them.



If it's all "real" why do you need to "book" anything, is basically what I'm driving at.

They like to add drama to the sport so if they find two fighters that have animosity towards eachother, they will book that fight and hype it up. Its way different from wrestling in that if WWE hyped up a match they would make it a long drawn out match with ups and downs, but when UFC hyped up the tito/shamrock match, it was a squash every time.

[Jordan]

In MMA, guys with talent get pushes and make money. In wrestling they don't.

In MMA, the promoters don't insult their fanbase. In wrestling, they do.

In MMA, the shows are worth paying money for. In wrestling, they aren't.

UFC books feuds that end in a real fight better than WWE or TNA does for 100% worked matches.

RDD - what's the point on commenting on things you just admitted you don't understand?

Agreed 120%

MMA is wrestling but real.

[road doggy dogg]

Okay that's basically exactly what I was saying. It like took over the place of wrestling for that niche in entertainment.

[James Steele]

The original UFC was better than this bullshit they have now.

[DrA]

I know UFC is real fighting and all of that, but the thing that got me into wrestling when I was into it were the unique characters that were wrestling. It was flashy, yes, but it was also cool to see a porn star wrestle a gold dragqueen or a garbage man. I think the lack of that is what is actually killing wrestling today.

The problem with UFC isn't the style of fighting or any of that, but the bland guys that you have fighting. Even in other real fighting venues like boxing you would have guys like Mike Tyson who had attitude and could tell apart/root for. UFC just has a bunch of generic assholes who beat the crap out of each other. I don't care who wins, because I don't care about the individual fighters at all. This may or may not change in the future, but I would rather root for some dude who got bit by a dog and foams at the mouth when he fights rather than some suburban white guy with a boring name like "Cody Swanson" whose only rise to fame was that he trained in Guam for ten years. Come on.

[James Steele]

:lol:

Once again, a Cowboys fan proves his genius.

[The Show Off]

The original UFC was better than this bullshit they have now.

Exactly, who wouldn't want to see two out of shape fighter in diffrent disaplines fight bare knuckles in front of a capacity high school gym crowd, only to see a guy half their size choke all these bigger guys in slow methodical matches that don't go anywhere.

That's much better then two finely tuned athletes at the top of their games well rounded in boxing, kickboxing, muay thai, wrestling, jiu-jitsu ect. fighting exciting hotly contested wars in front of jam packed arena's for fighting supremecy...

[James Steele]

Exactly, who wouldn't want to see two out of shape fighter in diffrent disaplines fight bare knuckles in front of a capacity high school gym crowd, only to see a guy half their size choke all these bigger guys in slow methodical matches that don't go anywhere.

That's much better then two finely tuned athletes at the top of their games well rounded in boxing, kickboxing, muay thai, wrestling, jiu-jitsu ect. fighting exciting hotly contested wars in front of jam packed arena's for fighting supremecy...

Do you mean 2 guys walking in circles until somebody finally throws a punch or kick?

[The Show Off]

Do you mean 2 guys walking in circles until somebody finally throws a punch or kick?

If you're honest that's like 10% of matches where guys lay and prey.

[The Naitch]

RP is a God amongst men

[Crimson]

Well for me the reason I don't watch wrestling anymore is because of the shitty storylines/characters/wrestlers and it lost it's unpredictibility years ago.
But back when it was in a hot streak in 98/99 out of all my friends I was the only one that watched. Now with UFC blowing up ALL my friends watch. Unlike wrestling I don't think mma is a phase ,I think it's here to stay, it will get as big as boxing..unless somehow like RDD brought up, they start to script fights.

And this new era of mma is alot better than what it was when it started, what are you fuckin kidding me.

[Jordan]

They won't script MMA, its is the truest sport aside from the Olympics. MMA is not a game, it is a contest.

[James Steele]

They won't script MMA, its is the truest sport aside from the Olympics. MMA is not a game, it is a contest.

You have more faith in humanity than I ever will.

[Jordan]

I tend to hope for the best.

[James Steele]

When the kind of money MMA is about to be making, anybody will do anything to get the biggest hunk of it.

[James Steele]

Let's see what Rob has to say...

[Rob]

What's the point in having a forum at all? Do you have to be an arrogant little faggot just because MMA is a "passion" of yours?


How is it arrogant? It's like me having an opinion on Japanese poetry or Gambian politics. I don't know dick about either so my thoughts don't count for shit.

If you were asking questions, this would be a different thread. But you said you didn't even know what point you were making. Take your rants elsewhere. Oh and the minute someone challenges your words, you name call? What are you fucking 12 years old?

As for "booking feuds", do some research and find out about the biggest fights in history in boxing, MMA and pro wrestling and there were "feuds" in all of them. Feuds build fights. Has done for over 100 years.

[Rob]

The original UFC was better than this bullshit they have now.

How are mis matched freak show fights better? I'm curious to hear why.

[James Steele]

How are mis matched freak show fights better? I'm curious to hear why.

They entertained me more. I respect the fact that it is much more "athletic" and "professional" but the fact is that I was more entertained and actually got into the fights more. The whole idea of a tournament of survival and the "no rules" enviroment was surreal to me and I got into it. I haven't gotten into anything that the Zuffa era of UFC has put out. My personal favorite MMA promotion right now is IFL, but I really don't watch it unless something else is on.

Edit: Just for the record, I only saw these after they were released on VHS. I loved renting these vids when they were available at Blockbuster.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

While I agree that the current UFC format is better, I wouldn't mind seeing a 16-man tournie happen in one night again.

[James Steele]

Also, I know they quit doing the tournaments around UFC 17 or so, but the no rules thing was really appealing because it wasn't just street fights but it had that "wtf might we see" appeal.

[Rob]

There was nothing appealing about it. That's why nobody watched it and why organised fights make money and nobody pays to see pub fights.

Also, now UFC is licensed in most states including Nevada, tournaments will NEVER be allowed.

[James Steele]

There was nothing appealing about it. That's why nobody watched it and why organised fights make money and nobody pays to see pub fights.

Also, now UFC is licensed in most states including Nevada, tournaments will NEVER be allowed.

I hate to pull a Kane Knight, but you are presenting opinion. Anyway, when I said "appealing" I meant appealing to me (since you asked me why I liked "old school UFC". Also, they were a hell of a lot more than just a barfight.

[Jordan]

UFC is so much better now, sure you may tune in and see a stinker but that is bound to happen when you have two highly talented individuals who are so good they can barley make a mistake.

The ratio of stinkers to good/great fights is far less since Zuffa bought UFC.

[Rob]

I hate to pull a Kane Knight, but you are presenting opinion. Anyway, when I said "appealing" I meant appealing to me (since you asked me why I liked "old school UFC". Also, they were a hell of a lot more than just a barfight.

You are right on one thing, it was opinion. You'd be extremely hard pressed to find anyone who agrees with you though that was a fan during both eras.

And aside from using weapons, how is it a hell of a lot more than a bar fight?

[James Steele]

You are right on one thing, it was opinion. You'd be extremely hard pressed to find anyone who agrees with you though that was a fan during both eras.

And aside from using weapons, how is it a hell of a lot more than a bar fight?

You implied that none of the fighters from that era had any talent other than swinging for the fences which we both no is incorrect. They used a lot of fighting techniques. You don't see too many armbars and high kicks in street fights. Then again, I don't know wtf y'all do across the pond.

[Jordan]

They constantly pitched good fighters (by todays terms) against street fighters, which sometimes (more often not) was entertaining. Also, once BJJ got in the mix, none of the street fighters stood a chance, which disappointed a lot of people who wanted to see bar fights.

Now people want to see athletic contests, not necessarily someone get beat in. I may be wrong speaking for most but I do not want to see someone get their arm broken or their eye socket caved in. No longer is it a blood lust, but a true Martial Arts competition, and its sooooo fucking Sparta.

[Jordan]

Ok thats a little self contradictory, this is the new Coliseum, but at the same time still an athletic competition.

[Rob]

You implied that none of the fighters from that era had any talent other than swinging for the fences which we both no is incorrect. They used a lot of fighting techniques. You don't see too many armbars and high kicks in street fights. Then again, I don't know wtf y'all do across the pond.

Not many guys had talent. The wrestlers and Royce Gracie all dominated. Everyone else sucked a dick. Quality of fights? I'd put any fight on this weeks UFC 73 card up against any before Zuffa. After that boring Shamrock vs. Severn fight, it shouldn't even be debated.

As for bar fights, I need to send you some shit. British pub fights are on a whole other level to the States.

[Reavant]

There was nothing appealing about it. That's why nobody watched it and why organised fights make money and nobody pays to see pub fights.
.
people didnt watch it because it was new and not in pop culture. The reason it wasnt in pop culture was because the big wigs and freaked out parents thought the sport was too barbarick to even be around. Once they came in and started to set ground rules to appease the people in charge then it started to build steam and become what it is now. It was appealing as hell back in the day who are you kidding? It had a cult following. Thats what kept it going. If it wasnt appealing back then it wouldnt be here now.

[Reavant]

.

The problem with UFC isn't the style of fighting or any of that, but the bland guys that you have fighting. Even in other real fighting venues like boxing you would have guys like Mike Tyson who had attitude and could tell apart/root for. UFC just has a bunch of generic assholes who beat the crap out of each other. I don't care who wins, because I don't care about the individual fighters at all.
Have you ever heard of Tito Ortiz, or maybe even Quinten Jackson??? How about Ken Shamrock? How can you even say that statement and not have your brain eat itself?

[Crimson]

Yea I would watch it back in the day too..and I liked it. But alot of those fights were long and boring as well..just like some are now no escaping those fights. Those tournaments were hell of cool too, but I've jus come to realize that things change for better or worse and in this case you can't argue that it is for the better.

[Hanso Amore]

The same could be said about Wrestling in t he 90s.

The WWE/WCW/ECW really took over from Boxing. Boxing died off as wrestling took over as the "fight sport", and now its being passed to MMA.

[DrA]

Tito Ortiz

A little wuss that looks like Chris Candido who thinks he's so cute because he wears little t-shirts on his way to a fight. That t-shirt thing is actually a cool idea, but I do not feel this guy at all.

Ken Shamrock is cool, but only because I get some sort of nostalgia from when he was in the WWF. "Rampage" wears Christian shit during his fights. I'm sorry, but until he rips someone's nose off during a fight he doesn't have nothing.

I'm sorry, but I can't get into most of these MMA fighters. I can't put my finger on it, but they're just "not my kind of people", at least to watch for my fighting entertainment. You need some more wife beaters going out there, guys like wear sunglasses to the ring and don't care if they get kicked into their eyeballs, guys who bulldoze their opponent's home down the night before a fight. It would be better too, since it would be "real" drama/homicides and not that scripted shit that you get in pro wrestling.

[DRBailey]

UFC etc seems to be the next evolution of boxing imo.

[Kris P Lettus]

The problem with UFC isn't the style of fighting or any of that, but the bland guys that you have fighting. Even in other real fighting venues like boxing you would have guys like Mike Tyson who had attitude and could tell apart/root for. UFC just has a bunch of generic assholes who beat the crap out of each other. I don't care who wins, because I don't care about the individual fighters at all.
Here's a dollar, buy a clue..

Chuck Liddel, Tito Ortiz, RAMPAGE Jackson, Bas Rutten, BJ Penn, Showgun Rua, Sakoraba, Cro Cop, Fedor, and trhe list goes on and on and on..

It's funny, you can easily tell that all the anti-MMA guys in here don't really even watch MMA or they wouldn't say 90% of the shit that has been said..

Hate on, haters..

[Rob]

Tito Ortiz's last 5 fights drew more than Mike Tyson's. And the last each - Ortiz did around 1.3 million buys and Tyson did about 35,000.

[Rob]

The same could be said about Wrestling in t he 90s.

The WWE/WCW/ECW really took over from Boxing. Boxing died off as wrestling took over as the "fight sport", and now its being passed to MMA.

The bigger boxing shows have always out drawn pro wrestling. Wrestling has never been considered a fight sport.

[Kris P Lettus]

Tito Ortiz's last 5 fights drew more than Mike Tyson's. And the last each - Ortiz did around 1.3 million buys and Tyson did about 35,000.

Just the fact he said "the bland guys that you have fighting" is ridiculous..

The fact you can't tell fighters apart without them having ridiculous gimmicks and costums, sounds like a personal intelligence problem, not marketing problem..

[Kris P Lettus]

Oh and to say fighters don't have attitudes is crazy..

Have you seen Rampage Jackson??

[Rob]

The man needs his own sitcom.

[Kris P Lettus]

I'd watch it, tivo it, download it on the comp, and buy the DVD boxset..

[James Steele]

LET'S ALL RIDE DANA WHITE'S DICK! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!

[The Show Off]

LET'S ALL RIDE DANA WHITE'S DICK! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!

MMA isn't just Zuffa's UFC... As of the past few months, that's pretty much the only good MMA, but just because we like a sport doesn't mean we love the owner/president...

I love baseball I hate Bud Selig

I love basketball and I hate Daniel Stern (fucking Robert Horry hip check eliminated my Phoneix Suns... asshole.)

I love the WWE I'm not too fond of Vince McMahon

I love the FOX Network but I think Rupert Murdoch is a cunt.

I love the UFC but I thinl the juvanile way Dana White talks is counter productive for the growth of MMA in America. Or at least it'll keep more traditional viewers from watching.

People can dislike MMA and UFC all you like for whatever reason, that's their right. As for fighters being bland... that isn't entirly inaccurate but their is a few "characters" in MMA, but you kinda have to look them up and pay attention, they don't jump out at you. However, if you were to pay attention to a guy like Quinton JAckson, he is probably the most charismatic athlete to come down the pike since Shaq.

Though I do admit without really doing research on a lot of fighters most of them do seem to run together. However, you'll never find a more intersting duo as Nick and Nate Diaz and their unflappable explitive laced arrogance, that is quite funny.

[Jordan]

Whatever man Dana White is the shit.

[Kris P Lettus]

LET'S ALL RIDE DANA WHITE'S DICK! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!

We must be reading different threads..

[James Steele]

Joke. Learn to take one.

[Kris P Lettus]

Joke.. Make them funny then they'll be more obvious..

[Reavant]

HAHA rampage is great but Shionie Carter is sooo much better. He once said: "Im the biggest trash talker in MMA, Move over Quenton you found religion." haha and he basically walks out in a pimp suit.

[Skippord]

I dislike MMA

[Confucius]

Rampage is a fucking legend. Easily the most charismatic fighter, in any discipline, on the planet at this moment.

Just Youtube his name and you'll see.

I'm a fan of both MMA and boxing but i find it incredibly frustrating the way in which the majority of boxing promoters i.e Warren etc and fighters continually talk shite about it.

Frank Warren, in particular, continually uses his column in the NOTW to take cheap, uneducated potshots at 'Ultimate Fight Club'. To my mind it only shows how worried he must be about the expansion of the UFC into Europe.

[Super V]

Joke.. Make them funny then they'll be more obvious..
You must spread some rep around before giving it to Kris P Lettus again.

[Dave Youell]

I didn't care for UFC at all 6 months ago, just thought all the matches were generic and boring, man was I wrong.

Bravo are showing all the best fights they've had, I watch Forrest Griffen and the other guy from the Ultimate fighter in the finale

Holy Shit that was a good fight.

I think the main reason I like UFC/MMA is that there's different ways you can approach a fight/opponant and the different ways in which you can win

[Rob]

Frank Warren, in particular, continually uses his column in the NOTW to take cheap, uneducated potshots at 'Ultimate Fight Club'. To my mind it only shows how worried he must be about the expansion of the UFC into Europe.

The more he talks about it, the worse he looks. And I know for a fact (because I was present on one occasion) that Dana White offered Frank Warren boxer vs. MMA fighter matches with huge money on the line. Warren can't back his shit up. Bottom line to Frank Warren - when have his PPV's even drawn over 100,000 buys nevermind broke the 1 million barrier? Discussion over Frankie. Now go get shot again or something.

[The Show Off]

HAHA rampage is great but Shionie Carter is sooo much better. He once said: "Im the biggest trash talker in MMA, Move over Quenton you found religion." haha and he basically walks out in a pimp suit.

Shonie Carter is a pretty funny guy, perhaps on par with how entertaining Rampage is. The big diffrence is Shonie Carter can't beat Marcus Davis in the Welterweight Division, where as Quinton Jackson is currently the Champion of the Light Heavyweight Divison, hence making Rampage much more marketable.

[Apocolyptik1]

Shonie Carter is a pretty funny guy, perhaps on par with how entertaining Rampage is. The big diffrence is Shonie Carter can't beat Marcus Davis in the Welterweight Division, where as Quinton Jackson is currently the Champion of the Light Heavyweight Divison, hence making Rampage much more marketable.

Well that almost sounds like you are taking something away from the Irish Hand Grenade. That dudes on like a 6 fight win streak in the ufc, and has really been improving his ground game to add to his already impressive hands.

My comment doesnt have anything to do with fighter marketability, I just wanted to defend Marcus :p

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

When 2 guys in MMA have beef and there is an actual "feud" or whatnot, it can be much more understated because it's a real fight. In WWE someone can say "I don't like that motherfucker I wanna eat his children" and you don't care cuz like you've seen guys get thrown off bridges and necrophilia, whereas in MMA when there is beef ie. a scuffle at the weigh-ins, the fight has so much more meaning.

Plus, you can just have 2 randoms kick the piss out of one another and it's entertaining. You just need to pay attention to the little nuiances, ie. how good someone is off their back, how crisp their striking is, how good their wrestling is. There's so much strategy and thinking behind it. WTF is the strategy in pro-wrestling? "let's go out and entertain the fans", well fuckit, that's great, but it's not a competition, it's not a sport. UFC and MMA in general is a sport.

And yeah there are some stinkers, just like there are shitty hockey games, crappy boxing fights, awful football games. Welcome to sport.

[Apocolyptik1]

My response to this thread could be made into a fucking thesis paper but I will shorten it up for our easy reading viewers.

No, MMA is not the "New wrestling" because it cant be compared to wrestling. Sure, wrestlers go out and put their bodies on the line to entertain, but it isnt a fucking sport, get over it. Its a god damn soap opera with 300 lb men. Its fake, and whereas some of the spots they do couldnt be fake, and some men do take risks, the majority of the shit that would hurt, is fake. We all know this, but this isnt what seperates the two into completely different catagories.

You go to yahoo! sports and you dont find a fucking WWE webpage, and why is that? Because it isnt a sport. Same could be said for most other "sport" websites like espn, and others. MMA is the new contact sport that is replacing Boxing for the most part. However, wrestling has never been considered a sport by other people outside of wrestling fans. It will never be a sport, because its fake.

The contact in MMA is real, and always will be as long as the people who are in control now, stay in control. I disagree with a lot of the matches guys like Joe Silva puts together, but I know deep down inside that as long as guys like Joe Silva and Dana White are trying to make matches, they will not be fixed.

I have this confidence because these same guys left Boxing for that particular reason. It is all a work, and because so much money got into that sport, it skewed it like money tends to do most things. Would you take a dive for 5 million dollars? Fuck yea you would, because I know I would too. However, the people in charge of UFC dont want to see guys take dives, they want to see good fights (minus the squashes that some big name fighters get because UFC brass wants to make them out to be there golden boys like Bisping in Europe and Rivera and Sanchez in Mexico). However I can understand why they do it, thats how you build a brand. You take fan favorites and make them more favorable by giving them a few easy fights, then slamming them with a tough fight.

To return to the topic at hand, I dont ever want to see a "Gimmick" fighter in the UFC. Why? Because it isnt about gimmicks, its about fights. Shonie Carter may come down the octagon in a pimp suit, but he just tries to hype his fight. Once he gets to the octagon, he takes off the suit and becomes the fighter he is. Save the trash can, and hardcore matches for the WWE, along with its gimmicky characters, because thats how that product grows.

The promotions arent the same, and the only thing that is comparable is the viewing audience. UFC has the 18-?? audience right now because its the more exciting thing on the market, but its the only thing that is comparable in product between the WWE and the UFC. One is replacing the other because they arent even in the same classification of sports genre.

[Apocolyptik1]

If you say that MMA has "bland" characters, then you havent seen very much MMA. You probably tuned in to one lame ppv and made your opinion off of that, but like CBN said, its a sport, and every sport has its dull moments. It cant be a flash fry all the time, but it definetly procures excitement more then 50% of the time, which is really all I ask for.

The reason you dont care for the fighters is because you have already formulated and stuck with whatever opinion you have concocted in your head, and I dont think any good MMA fight would change that anyways. However, MMA is anything but bland to the MMA fan.

The sports are different, and in-turn the fighters will be different. Thats doesnt mean the fighters in MMA arent marketable to other people besides yourself because uhh, check the buyouts and gate records being set across the world because MMA is "it", and has "it", whatever "it" is.

Most MMA fighters are "bland" to wrestling fans because wrestling fans want to care more about the wrestler then the match. You all want to care about the drama that lead up to everything, the storyline. MMA isnt about storyline, its about fights. They use drama or beef between fighters to build the FIGHT, not the fighter, and WWE does the opposite. They do want you to care about its fighters, and thats why everyone has their particular favorite, but for me, its always been about the fights. Sure I have my fighters that I like to see fight more then others, but when it comes down to it, I want to see the technical aspect of it all, and not the drama that surrounded it.

[James Steele]

MMA has found its Alienoid.

[Apocolyptik1]

MMA has found its Alienoid.

Is it because its challenging for you to read, twat? Them Texas school systems are awesome.

[Rob]

My response to this thread could be made into a fucking thesis paper but I will shorten it up for our easy reading viewers.

No, MMA is not the "New wrestling" because it cant be compared to wrestling. Sure, wrestlers go out and put their bodies on the line to entertain, but it isnt a fucking sport, get over it. Its a god damn soap opera with 300 lb men. Its fake, and whereas some of the spots they do couldnt be fake, and some men do take risks, the majority of the shit that would hurt, is fake. We all know this, but this isnt what seperates the two into completely different catagories.

You go to yahoo! sports and you dont find a fucking WWE webpage, and why is that? Because it isnt a sport. Same could be said for most other "sport" websites like espn, and others. MMA is the new contact sport that is replacing Boxing for the most part. However, wrestling has never been considered a sport by other people outside of wrestling fans. It will never be a sport, because its fake.

The contact in MMA is real, and always will be as long as the people who are in control now, stay in control. I disagree with a lot of the matches guys like Joe Silva puts together, but I know deep down inside that as long as guys like Joe Silva and Dana White are trying to make matches, they will not be fixed.

I have this confidence because these same guys left Boxing for that particular reason. It is all a work, and because so much money got into that sport, it skewed it like money tends to do most things. Would you take a dive for 5 million dollars? Fuck yea you would, because I know I would too. However, the people in charge of UFC dont want to see guys take dives, they want to see good fights (minus the squashes that some big name fighters get because UFC brass wants to make them out to be there golden boys like Bisping in Europe and Rivera and Sanchez in Mexico). However I can understand why they do it, thats how you build a brand. You take fan favorites and make them more favorable by giving them a few easy fights, then slamming them with a tough fight.

To return to the topic at hand, I dont ever want to see a "Gimmick" fighter in the UFC. Why? Because it isnt about gimmicks, its about fights. Shonie Carter may come down the octagon in a pimp suit, but he just tries to hype his fight. Once he gets to the octagon, he takes off the suit and becomes the fighter he is. Save the trash can, and hardcore matches for the WWE, along with its gimmicky characters, because thats how that product grows.

The promotions arent the same, and the only thing that is comparable is the viewing audience. UFC has the 18-?? audience right now because its the more exciting thing on the market, but its the only thing that is comparable in product between the WWE and the UFC. One is replacing the other because they arent even in the same classification of sports genre.

I disagreed with so many things you said here.

In short though, MMA can very much be compared to wrestling and MMA definately needs some gimmicks because that's what separates you from others. When you see Ortiz, Liddell and Rampage, you know it's 3 different fighters. If they were wrestlers in WWE, they'd all wear the same gear, have the same haircuts, talk the same scripted promos and never get over like they could.

UFC is booking shows better than WWE has done in years and WWE has the huge advantage of being worked.

[James Steele]

Is it because its challenging for you to read, twat? Them Texas school systems are awesome.

No, its long-winded and unnecessary.

[Reavant]

I disagreed with so many things you said here.

In short though, MMA can very much be compared to wrestling and MMA definately needs some gimmicks because that's what separates you from others. When you see Ortiz, Liddell and Rampage, you know it's 3 different fighters. If they were wrestlers in WWE, they'd all wear the same gear, have the same haircuts, talk the same scripted promos and never get over like they could.

UFC is booking shows better than WWE has done in years and WWE has the huge advantage of being worked.
What could you possably disagree with?

How do you want gimmics to be played out in UFC? Have one guy say hes a make porn star while another guy dresses up in all green with antlers on his head? The only gimmicks you need in MMA are the shit talkers that cant back it up, the ones that can, the humble champions, the quite types that get it done, the cry babies and the jobbers. NOTE all those have to do with the fight. NOT a storyline. Because MMA is about fights not stories. Thats why there isnt scripted promos, because no one fucking cares! Fans want to see a fight. If its good they cheer if its bad they boo... FUCKING SIMPLE.

UFC is booking better than WWE because they have good talent putting out a good product. Not only that, but anyone can do MMA. Anyone can go into a gym and train for fighting. They then watch the fighters on tv and can relate to them because they know exactly whats going on and that gives them that more of a connection with it. You cant just randomly/casually train for WWE. Not only that, but not everyone can do it. Especially now that everyone is watching guys that are bigger than anyman theyve seen in real life. They cant picture themselves slamming the big show, but they can see themselves in a guard or applying an armbar to an opponent.

[Blitz]

It'd be cool if the if there were more styles in UFC. I wanna see some guy come in doing Capoeira and Jeet Kune Do instead of BJJ and Muay Thai.

[Reavant]

yea but the BJJ guy would win 9 times out of ten and no one wants to lose so they all train BJJ

[Dave Youell]

It'd be cool if the if there were more styles in UFC. I wanna see some guy come in doing Capoeira and Jeet Kune Do instead of BJJ and Muay Thai.
So basically you want to watch real life Tekken

AWESOME!!!!

THAT WOULD RULE!!!

Eddie Gordo Vs Ortiz would be immense!

[Reavant]

lol

[Stickman]

It'd be cool if the if there were more styles in UFC. I wanna see some guy come in doing Capoeira and Jeet Kune Do instead of BJJ and Muay Thai.

Yeah but like Reavant said, BJJ wins almost 100% of the time. That's why everybody trains in that.

[Reavant]

and muey thai or kick boxing are the most rounded striking forms there are as well

[Blitz]

So basically you want to watch real life Tekken

AWESOME!!!!

THAT WOULD RULE!!!

Eddie Gordo Vs Ortiz would be immense!
That's right.

[Erebus]

Yeah but like Reavant said, BJJ wins almost 100% of the time. That's why everybody trains in that.

I enjoy MMA, but I think that's my biggest problem with it. I really would like to see some other styles involved, but in general they just don't match up.

[Stickman]

Yeah I know what you're saying but I don't htink it's possible.

[Rob]

What could you possably disagree with?

How do you want gimmics to be played out in UFC? Have one guy say hes a make porn star while another guy dresses up in all green with antlers on his head? The only gimmicks you need in MMA are the shit talkers that cant back it up, the ones that can, the humble champions, the quite types that get it done, the cry babies and the jobbers. NOTE all those have to do with the fight. NOT a storyline. Because MMA is about fights not stories. Thats why there isnt scripted promos, because no one fucking cares! Fans want to see a fight. If its good they cheer if its bad they boo... FUCKING SIMPLE.

UFC is booking better than WWE because they have good talent putting out a good product. Not only that, but anyone can do MMA. Anyone can go into a gym and train for fighting. They then watch the fighters on tv and can relate to them because they know exactly whats going on and that gives them that more of a connection with it. You cant just randomly/casually train for WWE. Not only that, but not everyone can do it. Especially now that everyone is watching guys that are bigger than anyman theyve seen in real life. They cant picture themselves slamming the big show, but they can see themselves in a guard or applying an armbar to an opponent.

Don't confuse gimmick with cartoon character. Quinton Jackson whole persona is a gimmick. Tank Abbott couldn't win a fight against an 11 year old boy these days but he is over? Gimmick! Fighter A beating everyone in sight
, calling out a champion and building two men to fight each other out of pure "hate" is a storyline. Wrestling used it for 100 years before Vince McMahon Jnr bought out his daddy's company.

The rest of what you said was nonsense pal. Especially the "anyone can do MMA" thing. Most adults haven't even been in a fight since primary school.

[Reavant]

The rest of what you said was nonsense pal. Especially the "anyone can do MMA" thing. Most adults haven't even been in a fight since primary school.
Well if your going to say something like that then back it up.

Since you cant allow me to retort...

See it doesnt matter how long its been since an adult has been in a fight. They can walk into a gym almost anywhere these days and get into jujistu classes, judo, kick boxing, muey thai, etc... 80% of those people will never decide to step it up to actually compete in a fight, but they always can. Where do you think half of the guys in UFC or anywhere in MMA started? I dont know if you know this but there are much smaller promotions out there that arent even televised that take place in gyms or wherever they can put an octogon/ring to put on a show. People there SUCK BALLS, but theyre still out there doing it. They have less than 0% chance of ever being in the UFC but they are still doing MMA arent they.

Now Im going to say this again so you cant get confused... Im not saying anyone can get into the UFC... im saying anyone can participate in the sport of MMA. With it being so popular, and it being a fun/hard workout many people are getting involved. Thus giving them more understanding of it and then giving them a much greater connection to the sport.

If your still not following me let me try and help you further... Someone who has played football before can watch the game and know whats going on. They can see how a play is developing and what players are doing what AND be able to relate to it because they have experience in it.

Oh and I know a lot of guys that are training now that fit the type of never have been in a fight or affraid of confrontation, and when they are in the room doing BJJ or whatever, they gain a confidence beyond your belief because not only are they learning something cool, theyre also boosting their confidence.

This is something Pro-wrestling fans wont ever and will never have with the product they watch.

[Rob]

You are mental if you think people can just walk into a gym and become a fighter.

More people can relate to pro wrestling because most kids played it with their friends in playgrounds or backyards. People can't relate to fighting. Well that's unless you getting into a scuffle in a club and fucking pull guard or something.

[Reavant]

WOW... I said it THRREE times and you still didnt get it. They wont become a fighter by just participating, but they will know exactly what its all about.

DID you seriously just compare MMA to a fight in a club?!?! HAHHAHA have you ever seen MMA? Do you know what it is? Have you ever been in a real fight?

Im assuming you saw that "street fight" on the Ultimate Fighter. Im going to capitalize this so you cant misunderstand this... THATS NOT HOW REAL STREET FIGHTS ARE LIKE. In MMA there is planning, strategy, and technique. In a real street fight its just a slug fest. In fact considering theres no rules its probably more like wrestling because someone will prolly pull a knife on you or hit you with something blunt.

Oh yea and soooo many kids fucking slam eachother or do flying leg drops in their backyard and playgrounds. Yea that would end well :y: Not everyone is is as crazy as those few guys that make those backyard wrestling DVDs. Actual kids dont do moves to eachother and guess what happens when they do!!!!! THEY GET SERIOUSLY HURT!!! yea that would really make them love wrestling.

Seriously dude, you sound retarded.

[Rob]

WOW... I said it THRREE times and you still didnt get it. They wont become a fighter by just participating, but they will know exactly what its all about.

How exactly does this differ from people going to wrestling schools then?

And kids don't always get hurt doing moves. I did play wrestling every day for like 4 years when I was a kid and me and my friends never got hurt. Stupid kids get hurt.

[Reavant]

Your right people can go to wrestling schools... now I dont know how accessable wrstling schools are around you but I live near Chicago and theres maybe one or two, and not anyone can join. However, theres different forms of martial arts facilities at almost every plaza you see. Now your gonna say THATS NOT MMA. Well its part of it. You learn something from one place, learn something else from another, start to put it together... and all of the sudden your mixing martial arts!!! Not to mention any big gym out there nowadays has BJJ or kickboxing classes in them. So nice job at trying to be clever :y:

Im very proud of you that you managed not to be injured at all when you were playing with your friends... I did the same on a trampelene. I was also uninjured.. However Im sure you werent doing jumping piledrivers or 5 star splashes huh?

[Jordan]

You know im training to be a cage fighter...


Well I pretty much just walked into a gym and started that day. Does that mean I am an MMA fighter? No, it means im in training. Could I have done that for Pro Wrestling? Yeah because they need the money and they will take anyones money.

[Rob]

Your right people can go to wrestling schools... now I dont know how accessable wrstling schools are around you but I live near Chicago and theres maybe one or two, and not anyone can join.

Are you serious? ANYONE can join wrestling schools. They take your money just like an MMA school would.


Im very proud of you that you managed not to be injured at all when you were playing with your friends... I did the same on a trampelene. I was also uninjured.. However Im sure you werent doing jumping piledrivers or 5 star splashes huh?

Thanks for being proud of me. I wasn't doing 5 star frog splashes when I was a kid. That's mainly because the frog splash barely got it's first exposure about 5 years after I was playing wrestling. And I didn't do piledrivers because like I said earlier, I wasn't stupid. I'm glad you didn't get hurt too pal. :y:

[Rob]

You know im training to be a cage fighter...


Well I pretty much just walked into a gym and started that day. Does that mean I am an MMA fighter? No, it means im in training. Could I have done that for Pro Wrestling? Yeah because they need the money and they will take anyones money.

I'm training MMA too now. No intention of ever having a fight though. It's not for everyone.

[Apocolyptik1]

I think some of the stuff you guys are saying are both hitting on the right path, however you guys are almost going into 2 different directions.

Ok Rob, I agree about the gimmick thing with the people in MMA. However, MMA guys that act the way they do, generally act that way 24/7. Rampage, the real nice, funny black dude that everyone wants to be around because he is a cool guy, plays that role in real life. He is that person. Now the coming out with the big chain (which he always wears anyways) and howling, that's something completely different. That is what you are referring to, but that doesnt bother me. People can come out and show charisma.

What I am referring to is guys like John Q Whatever putting on makeup on his face and some particular article of clothing, and then going out into the cage and acting like a different person. I do not want that anywhere near MMA.

[Apocolyptik1]

A dude coming out and talking shit to hype his fight, thats one thing. A guy marching down to the cage dressed in camo because his fight name is "Army Ranger", then taking them off just to reveal some mma clothes would be fucking retarded.

Thats the cut and dry version of what I am trying to say, which I dont think either of you are defending or arguing against.

[Rob]

That's what I was saying. I never said anything about characters in MMA having to be fake. Tito Ortiz and Rampage are two guys who have the right personalities that people would call them "characters". Not in a fake way, in the George Constanza "you are quite a character" kinda way. And they both have picked up ways to build fights and used it as a gimmick.

Two guys just fighting doesn't sell a fight. Every top fight needs a background/storyline. Even if it's just fighter A hates fighter B.

[Reavant]

I think some of the stuff you guys are saying are both hitting on the right path, however you guys are almost going into 2 different directions.

Ok Rob, I agree about the gimmick thing with the people in MMA. However, MMA guys that act the way they do, generally act that way 24/7. Rampage, the real nice, funny black dude that everyone wants to be around because he is a cool guy, plays that role in real life. He is that person. Now the coming out with the big chain (which he always wears anyways) and howling, that's something completely different. That is what you are referring to, but that doesnt bother me. People can come out and show charisma.

What I am referring to is guys like John Q Whatever putting on makeup on his face and some particular article of clothing, and then going out into the cage and acting like a different person. I do not want that anywhere near MMA.
Right... Being charismatic has nothing to do with gimmicks. Rampage is a tough aggressive fighter. He wears a chain and howels. Im sure thats more of either how hes reacting to the energy going through him from being in front of so many people, or a way to get into the head of his opponent. Probably both. But thats not a gimmick, because like what was already said, hes like that in real life.

[Reavant]

That's what I was saying. I never said anything about characters in MMA having to be fake. Tito Ortiz and Rampage are two guys who have the right personalities that people would call them "characters". Not in a fake way, in the George Constanza "you are quite a character" kinda way. And they both have picked up ways to build fights and used it as a gimmick.

Two guys just fighting doesn't sell a fight. Every top fight needs a background/storyline. Even if it's just fighter A hates fighter B.
ok

When you see Ortiz, Liddell and Rampage, you know it's 3 different fighters. If they were wrestlers in WWE, they'd all wear the same gear, have the same haircuts, talk the same scripted promos and never get over like they could.

.
hmm

:y::nono:

[Rob]

He admits he took all that from the Junkyard Dog. Hence it's a gimmick. Doesn't matter if he does it in real life or not. I couldn't care less if he howls at his wife to bring the dinner to the table or that he scares his kids before bed time.

[Reavant]

so are you gonna change your tune if someone else disagrees with you on something else?

[Rob]

I'll elaborate on the Ortiz, Liddell, Rampage thing thing.

Back in the day, everyone in WWE had a different look and had to do their own promos. It made people want to be different from others in order to stick out to the fans. In 2007, everyone looks the same. Short cropped hair, boots and shorts/trunks and nobody does their own promos. This is the biggest pet peeve amongst wrestlers today. I'll use the Anti-Americans as an example. Regal, Storm, Test and Christian all had different looks, spoke different and worked different styles. When they got together as a group, Vince McMahon wanted all of them to look and talk like Lance Storm. Now if you do that, you lose identity and the fans care less about you. If you have one Lance Storm, that's fine and dandy. When you have four, who is gonna care about the first one?

Does this make sense?

[Rob]

so are you gonna change your tune if someone else disagrees with you on something else?

Why would I? If someone proves me wrong about something, I would but until then, it's a no.

[Reavant]

yea but what does that have to do with mma?

[Rob]

In MMA, you are allowed to be different. Hence why it's not the new wrestling (which was meant to be the point of this thread). Which brings me back to...

In MMA, guys with talent get pushes and make money. In wrestling they don't.

In MMA, the promoters don't insult their fanbase. In wrestling, they do.

In MMA, the shows are worth paying money for. In wrestling, they aren't.

UFC books feuds that end in a real fight better than WWE or TNA does for 100% worked matches.

[Reavant]

i agree with all that

[Rob]

Good because I no longer care about MMA or wrestling after all this :D

[Reavant]

haha me niether