View Full Version : Calling anyone with knowledge of the UK Indy scene
Spoon Bender
03-05-2004, 08:57 AM
Hi guys,
I'm putting together a degree project on arts funding at the moment and I need some help getting together info about the costs involved in running a one off wrestling show.
I remember that FWA ran that big event about a year ago where they basically showcased British talent, it went out on Bravo, but I don't remember what it was called. Does anyone have any info on that show as it's pretty much exactly the kind of thing I'm looking at.
As well as that I'm interested in things like basic rates of pay for Indy workers in the UK and places to buy wrestling supplies.
Last of all can anyone think of any famous British wrestlers (all I can think of is Regal) and if they have websites etc?
I know that there's alot of people here who know about this kind of stuff so any info you can give would be helpfull. I'll try and post the project up in the wrestling forum when it's finished, hopefully it'll make an interesting read.
Thanks guys,
Spoony
The Mackem
03-05-2004, 05:00 PM
Jody Fleisch (I know he's retired), Jonny Storm (maybe not totally famous).
Man what was that FWA event called again?
The only one I've seen since is Frontiers of Honor. Well bits of it.
Err yeah *bump*
The Mackem
03-05-2004, 05:04 PM
Doug Williams, Jack Xavier
Mr. Monday Morning
03-05-2004, 05:05 PM
Frontiers of Honor was the cross-promotion with Ring of Honor, could be what he means.
As for other UK wrestlers, there's Doug Williams, he's had a couple good stints in RoH. Fit Finlay's pretty well known too.
The Mackem
03-05-2004, 05:06 PM
I think he means that one where it was like a tournament. If I remember right Eddie Guerrero and Brian Lawler competed that night.
I think it was Revival.
Famous British wrestlers? Doug Williams would probably be the most well known who is actively working. Dynamite Kid is the biggest all time with a website (no way is he bigger than Davey Boy overall).
Average pay is next to nothing. I know Jody Fleisch, who was one of the biggest names in the British biz, only got £50 for working 3 matches at Revival and Alex Shane was proud of this (what a dickhead but thats another story).
The Mackem
03-05-2004, 06:09 PM
£50? damn.
The Mackem
03-05-2004, 06:10 PM
Tell us the Alex Shane story Rob :(
Okay I'll try to be brief (which means it will probably go on forever :) )
Over on the UK Fan Forum, most of us were complaining about how some UK show was selling it's front row tickets for like £60. Alex Shane (the booker) had the excuse that if you didn't want the £60 tickets then buy cheaper ones and got all defensive, Well I was the first person to openingly speak up about it being daylight robbery. My arguement was we, as fans, are allowed to publically speak up and say if we think it's robbery charging £60 for ringside tickets for a glorified indy show especially since WWE were charging £45 for the same tickets for PPVs. If we work hard for our money, we deserve value for it and I, along with many, didn't think that was value and saying "buy cheaper tickets" was a bullsh</>it excuse because if the ringside tickets aren't value than neither are the cheaper ones (since you get a worse seat).
Anyway, like EVERYONE then spoke up and agreed with my post so Alex Shane got the arsehole and then got another ID and said if I had balls I'd go to Finsbury Park and say that to his face. I found out it was him and bad mouthed him more and said if he, a trained pro wrestler, wanted to fight a fan then I'd go but I was bringing a few of the boys. Needless to say, he never spoke of it again.
Ricky
03-05-2004, 07:18 PM
Do you mean British Uprising?
And LOL @ Alex Shane challenging Rob to a fight.
Well technically it was whatever monkey name he was posting under. We did get him on Yahoo IM later and my ex girlfriend made him look like a right mug. He uses his real name in chat rooms and calls himself a pro wrestler by the way. She was like "my bf and his brother have heard of you" and he said "oh thanks, I'm glad they are fans" and she said "no, they think you suck" and when he asked to put her on his friends list, she told him to fu</>ck off and get a life. Childish but it was sooooo funny here anyways. :D
Spoon Bender
03-12-2004, 07:06 AM
Nice. I think Revival was the one I was thinking off. Right...now I need to look into the costs of hiring Jake the Snake, William Regal and the London Arena for one night...any ideas? this project rules!
The Mackem
03-12-2004, 01:20 PM
Can you not make the figures up?
Spoon Bender
03-12-2004, 02:15 PM
If I wanted to get a cheap first by producing a shoddy project I could.
William Regal is under exclusive WWE contract so that's a no go. Phone London Arena (or whatever they are calling it now) and ask what the rental price is or how you can find out. I'd imagine you could get most UK workers for less than £200. Most big name indy U.S stars would probably demand flights and/or hotels depending on who it was. Right now, I'd say Raven and D-Lo Brown would be the biggest draws for a big show here and they'd probably cost something in the region of $1000 each.
The Mackem
03-12-2004, 05:59 PM
It would be cool booking your own show.
Me and my mate considered doing one a while back but we found it would cost 10 grand roughly just to a show in a 2,000 building (including talent).
Didn't even consider the coffee budget :p
The Mackem
03-12-2004, 06:08 PM
Oh yeah, think of all the no-shows if there was no coffee on offer.
Dude, I'd be the first out the door so I could hardly blame them.
Dave Youell
03-12-2004, 07:59 PM
Spon Bender is you want some info on the costs of a msaller sized show (i.e for about 500ish peoppl) i can give you someestimate. PM if your interested
Spoon Bender
03-13-2004, 09:19 AM
Cheers guys! The arena are being shits about getting back to me. I'll let you know what they say if I get through though.
I thought wrestlers under exclusive contract were allowed to take Indy bookings, but a fee had to be paid to the company owning the contract?
Nope. Only people with announcing contracts are allowed to accept indy dates. That would mean Al Snow, Jerry Lawler and Tazz (although nobody is gonna get Tazz).
Spoon Bender
03-15-2004, 11:44 AM
London arena is somewhere in the regeon of £30K for one night!!! Ouch! Glad it's only theoretical!
It's pretty sick actually, I worked out that hiring 3 well known American stars to appear would cost about £7,000 including fees, flights and accomodation. I included Regal in the end (I doubt my leturer knows THAT much about WWE contracts) and added an extra 2K to his fee with the assumption that some of it would go to WWE. Having done that I then worked out that I could book about 10 British Indy workers for just over £1,000! Damn those guys need a union!
The Mackem
03-15-2004, 12:57 PM
Yeah I thought it wouldn't be cheap. I guess that's why US Indy feds don't hire MSG and the like.
Do you also have to include your booking card, insurance costs, health and saftey requirements as well?
London arena is somewhere in the regeon of £30K for one night!!! Ouch! Glad it's only theoretical!
It's pretty sick actually, I worked out that hiring 3 well known American stars to appear would cost about £7,000 including fees, flights and accomodation. I included Regal in the end (I doubt my leturer knows THAT much about WWE contracts) and added an extra 2K to his fee with the assumption that some of it would go to WWE. Having done that I then worked out that I could book about 10 British Indy workers for just over £1,000! Damn those guys need a union!
What other 2 Americans did you pick?
If you were able to get say D'Lo Brown, Raven and Teddy Hart (easy the most over indy star right now) then I think it's feeasble that you could draw 5000 people with the right promotion and building. For any show, you'd need more than 3 Americans though. Possibly exploit Mexico's economy and get 2 stars from there to do a match together.
Dave Youell
03-16-2004, 07:36 AM
London arena is somewhere in the regeon of £30K for one night!!! Ouch! Glad it's only theoretical!
It's pretty sick actually, I worked out that hiring 3 well known American stars to appear would cost about £7,000 including fees, flights and accomodation. I included Regal in the end (I doubt my leturer knows THAT much about WWE contracts) and added an extra 2K to his fee with the assumption that some of it would go to WWE. Having done that I then worked out that I could book about 10 British Indy workers for just over £1,000! Damn those guys need a union!
I think your overpaying the UK workers there mate
The Mackem
03-16-2004, 07:48 AM
I think he means he's getting 10 works for a grand, i.e £100 each.
Spoon Bender
03-16-2004, 08:19 AM
£100 a piece was it, and that's a generous! I'd feel bad booking talent for that low, but at least it's twice what Shane paid. Still pretty crappy though.
Don't need to give the card, just an overview of the story behind the event.
The other 2 Americans were Raven and D'Lo, I've also factored in having Jake the Snake (though probably in a non wrestling role). Figured he'd cost about half what the others did due to the fact that you don't have to pay for flights and because (I'd hope) he doesn't charge as much per show.
Might add a few quid to get some Mexicans in, trouble is, I'm almost over my 50K limit already and I need to show that the show can break even. Haven't factored in sponsorship yet though.
The Mackem
03-16-2004, 08:55 AM
I'll give you £1 to have my name on Jonny Storms wrestling attire. If you are using Storm.
If you had 50K to run a show, you could easy break even. Hell you should make money in reality. And with a national Wrestling only channel, you could even get TV.
The Mackem
03-16-2004, 02:19 PM
Me and Rob could be announcers.
Me and Rob could be announcers.
And we work for coffee.
A mackem and a jockney? Trouble written all over it
The Mackem
03-16-2004, 02:46 PM
"Be quiet Harvey, nobody tuned in to hear what you think"
"Be quiet Harvey, nobody tuned in to hear what you think"
"....."
Dave Youell
03-17-2004, 08:00 AM
I think he means he's getting 10 works for a grand, i.e £100 each.
Yeah i know and that's loads over what average workers get.
Doug Williams who many regaurd as the best worker in the UK makes around that for UK and he's the cream of the crop and is dam difficult to book right now as it is with his sucess in NOAH.
Spoony, how much were you gonna charge for tickets?
The Mackem
03-17-2004, 08:02 AM
How much does Dave Youell D.I.Y cost per apearance?
Dave Youell
03-17-2004, 08:05 AM
How much does Dave Youell D.I.Y cost per apearance?
Me?
Christ if i can get work i've work for free as long as i get travel costs, but overall my wages have ranged from £5 to £70
I only got £70 cos it was a show in my home town and i got a lot of punters in plus i set up alot of the show
The Mackem
03-17-2004, 08:07 AM
Put Youell in the show Spoon Bender, he's value for money.
Dave Youell
03-17-2004, 08:09 AM
Put Youell in the show Spoon Bender, he's value for money.
Yes, yes he is i agree with Mackem :y:
Mike the Metal Ed
03-17-2004, 09:15 AM
Put <s>Youell</s> Alex Steel in the show Spoon Bender, he's value for money.
:y:
Dave Youell
03-17-2004, 09:38 AM
Dave Vs Alex is money!
Well it cost you money, but it's money cos.........
Ahhh you know what i mean
The Mackem
03-17-2004, 09:42 AM
Alex Steel? Who's Alex Steel, obviously a jobber compared to Dave Youell :cool:
Spoon Bender
03-17-2004, 10:14 AM
Hehe! I don't have to produce the card for the lower or midcard, just the ones that impact on the main story (ie promos and main event). The story is basically that Raven and D'Lo have come to launch their new promotion in the UK with the aim of showing how much better Americans are at everything. However, the UK talent (led by Willaim Regal are fighting back. Somewhere in the middle of it all is Jake the Snake...But which side will he choose!!!!? :eek: :wtf:
Ok, it's a bit ropey, but it's being submitted to people who aren't wrestling fans. so I want to keep it simple.
I might put up a card here anyway just for the hell of it! And Dave Youell would sure as hell be booked...I think I'll have him job to the Jake's latest snake ;)
Ticket prices are set at £30 average, but I might up that to £35 to take into account charging £40 for ringside seats.
I'm also looking into the costs of having Lost Profits (or maybe someone slightly cheaper) play a couple of songs (that way I can justify predicting total sell-out).
Oh and I managed to beat the "Pro Wrestling is sport, not art" arguement. Performance Art relys on an audience in order to take place, Sport doesn't. If nobody turns up to Man U vs Liverpool then the match still happens, if nobody turns up to Rock vs Hogan then the match wouldn't go ahead (generally speaking). Therefor pro-wrestling = performance art and not professional sport. :D
Dave Youell
03-17-2004, 12:09 PM
Hehe! I don't have to produce the card for the lower or midcard, just the ones that impact on the main story (ie promos and main event). The story is basically that Raven and D'Lo have come to launch their new promotion in the UK with the aim of showing how much better Americans are at everything. However, the UK talent (led by Willaim Regal are fighting back. Somewhere in the middle of it all is Jake the Snake...But which side will he choose!!!!? :eek: :wtf:
Ok, it's a bit ropey, but it's being submitted to people who aren't wrestling fans. so I want to keep it simple.
I might put up a card here anyway just for the hell of it! And Dave Youell would sure as hell be booked...I think I'll have him job to the Jake's latest snake ;)
Ticket prices are set at £30 average, but I might up that to £35 to take into account charging £40 for ringside seats.
I'm also looking into the costs of having Lost Profits (or maybe someone slightly cheaper) play a couple of songs (that way I can justify predicting total sell-out).
Oh and I managed to beat the "Pro Wrestling is sport, not art" arguement. Performance Art relys on an audience in order to take place, Sport doesn't. If nobody turns up to Man U vs Liverpool then the match still happens, if nobody turns up to Rock vs Hogan then the match wouldn't go ahead (generally speaking). Therefor pro-wrestling = performance art and not professional sport. :D
Woah!!!
Now i know you got £50,000 to spend here but do you HAVE to spend all of it?
Cos you could spend alot less than that and charge smaller ticket prices and still make a profit IMO.
Forget the band, you can get away with it anf anyone coming to the show is going to be a wrestling fan before being a lost profits fan. I didn't go to Mania 19 cos i'm a Limp Biskit fan.
You said that your looking into a 5,000 seater place, have you considered finding a smaller/cheaper place?
I only ask cos i was envovled in a show that had Honky Tonk Man and Jake the Snake on it. Combined with travel it cost nearlly £2000 because of unforseen problems.
We got 450 fans in and still broke even and that was charging £8 a ticket, and we had decent production with lights and decent entranves way and stuff.
the only reason i'm saying all this si that FWA have done these types of show before and i can't recall any of them getting 5000 fans in.
If you Have to use all the £50000 before the show then use any extra cash on Advertising and also get it filmed professinally, alot of promotions makes money via the merchandice table as well as the show ticket prices.
Just some food for thought :y:
The Mackem
03-17-2004, 12:16 PM
YOUELL! YOUELL! YOUELL!
Btw Dave are then any websites relating to promotions yo've worked for so I can look at the people who have jobbed to you.
Dave Youell
03-17-2004, 12:24 PM
YOUELL! YOUELL! YOUELL!
Btw Dave are then any websites relating to promotions yo've worked for so I can look at the people who have jobbed to you.
Well the booker/owner of the CSF isn't the best when it comes to Computors and stuff.
I'm gonna get one set up after the next CSF show next month, after i get pics of all the workers.
My wrestling name is Dave Mercy
If you just put CSF and Dave Mercy into google.co.uk i show up a few times.
There is a really old freeservers website (it's rubbish) the site addy is
combatsportsfederation.freeservers.co.uk i think
The Mackem
03-17-2004, 12:25 PM
Dave Mercy? What's that about? Demand a name change to "Dave Youell D.I.Y".
Mr. Monday Morning
03-20-2004, 08:52 PM
I can't imagine getting anywhere near 5000 for an indy show. You're probably looking at 2000 tops, maaaybe more depending on what sort of draw power Raven et al still hold over here.
Of course I could work as a heel manager and bring in a couple hundred by myself easily :cool: :shifty:
Fabien Barthez
03-23-2004, 10:30 PM
theres about 5 or 6 pages which say ......... defeated dave mercy. you ever won a match?
Spoon Bender
03-24-2004, 10:28 AM
Lol! Dave Mercy = Funaki of Indy. :p
Dave Youell
03-24-2004, 11:49 AM
Lol! Dave Mercy = Funaki of Indy. :p
that's nothing to be ashamed of
JJ Moore
03-24-2004, 01:50 PM
that's nothing to be ashamed of
I know, it's EVERYTHING.
Spoon Bender
03-29-2004, 01:40 PM
Right! Well the project's done and handed in. Dave, you'll be pleased to know that u woulda gotten £100 plus expenses for working the show and were booked to job to a pack of cheese and onion crisps. ;)
All in all the show was planned out to cost £100K to put on with a profit of around £150K-200K. Not bad really. Main event was booked as Raven & D'Lo Brown vs William Regal and Jonny Storm (featuring a run in by Jake Roberts)
I'll let u know what the markers thought as soon as they stop strinking.
Dave Youell
03-30-2004, 07:03 AM
Right! Well the project's done and handed in. Dave, you'll be pleased to know that u woulda gotten £100 plus expenses for working the show and were booked to job to a pack of cheese and onion crisps. ;)
All in all the show was planned out to cost £100K to put on with a profit of around £150K-200K. Not bad really. Main event was booked as Raven & D'Lo Brown vs William Regal and Jonny Storm (featuring a run in by Jake Roberts)
I'll let u know what the markers thought as soon as they stop strinking.
LOL @ jake the snake running!
A walk in maybe!
Anyways hmmmm £100, dam! I got no problem doing the job though, a apck of cheese and onion crisps are a tough son of a bitch
Spoon Bender
03-30-2004, 07:50 AM
LOL @ jake the snake running!
A walk in maybe!
Anyways hmmmm £100, dam! I got no problem doing the job though, a apck of cheese and onion crisps are a tough son of a bitch
Yeah, they were ridged and everything!
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