Calling anyone with knowledge of the UK Indy scene

**Spoon Bender** · 03-05-2004, 08:57 AM

Hi guys,

I'm putting together a degree project on arts funding at the moment and I need some help getting together info about the costs involved in running a one off wrestling show.

I remember that FWA ran that big event about a year ago where they basically showcased British talent, it went out on Bravo, but I don't remember what it was called. Does anyone have any info on that show as it's pretty much exactly the kind of thing I'm looking at.

As well as that I'm interested in things like basic rates of pay for Indy workers in the UK and places to buy wrestling supplies.

Last of all can anyone think of any famous British wrestlers (all I can think of is Regal) and if they have websites etc?

I know that there's alot of people here who know about this kind of stuff so any info you can give would be helpfull. I'll try and post the project up in the wrestling forum when it's finished, hopefully it'll make an interesting read.

Thanks guys,

Spoony

**The Mackem** · 03-05-2004, 05:00 PM

Jody Fleisch (I know he's retired), Jonny Storm (maybe not totally famous).

Man what was that FWA event called again?

The only one I've seen since is Frontiers of Honor. Well bits of it.

Err yeah *bump*

**The Mackem** · 03-05-2004, 05:04 PM

Doug Williams, Jack Xavier

**Mr. Monday Morning** · 03-05-2004, 05:05 PM

Frontiers of Honor was the cross-promotion with Ring of Honor, could be what he means.

As for other UK wrestlers, there's Doug Williams, he's had a couple good stints in RoH. Fit Finlay's pretty well known too.

**The Mackem** · 03-05-2004, 05:06 PM

I think he means that one where it was like a tournament. If I remember right Eddie Guerrero and Brian Lawler competed that night.

**Rob** · 03-05-2004, 05:31 PM

I think it was Revival.

Famous British wrestlers? Doug Williams would probably be the most well known who is actively working. Dynamite Kid is the biggest all time with a website (no way is he bigger than Davey Boy overall).

Average pay is next to nothing. I know Jody Fleisch, who was one of the biggest names in the British biz, only got �50 for working 3 matches at Revival and Alex Shane was proud of this (what a dickhead but thats another story).

**The Mackem** · 03-05-2004, 06:09 PM

�50? damn.

**The Mackem** · 03-05-2004, 06:10 PM

Tell us the Alex Shane story Rob

**Rob** · 03-05-2004, 06:51 PM

Okay I'll try to be brief (which means it will probably go on forever

)

Over on the UK Fan Forum, most of us were complaining about how some UK show was selling it's front row tickets for like �60. Alex Shane (the booker) had the excuse that if you didn't want the �60 tickets then buy cheaper ones and got all defensive, Well I was the first person to openingly speak up about it being daylight robbery. My arguement was we, as fans, are allowed to publically speak up and say if we think it's robbery charging �60 for ringside tickets for a glorified indy show especially since WWE were charging �45 for the same tickets for PPVs. If we work hard for our money, we deserve value for it and I, along with many, didn't think that was value and saying "buy cheaper tickets" was a bullshit excuse because if the ringside tickets aren't value than neither are the cheaper ones (since you get a worse seat).

Anyway, like EVERYONE then spoke up and agreed with my post so Alex Shane got the arsehole and then got another ID and said if I had balls I'd go to Finsbury Park and say that to his face. I found out it was him and bad mouthed him more and said if he, a trained pro wrestler, wanted to fight a fan then I'd go but I was bringing a few of the boys. Needless to say, he never spoke of it again.

**Ricky** · 03-05-2004, 07:18 PM

Do you mean British Uprising?

And LOL @ Alex Shane challenging Rob to a fight.

**Rob** · 03-05-2004, 07:25 PM

Well technically it was whatever monkey name he was posting under. We did get him on Yahoo IM later and my ex girlfriend made him look like a right mug. He uses his real name in chat rooms and calls himself a pro wrestler by the way. She was like "my bf and his brother have heard of you" and he said "oh thanks, I'm glad they are fans" and she said "no, they think you suck" and when he asked to put her on his friends list, she told him to fuck off and get a life. Childish but it was sooooo funny here anyways.

**Spoon Bender** · 03-12-2004, 07:06 AM

Nice. I think Revival was the one I was thinking off. Right...now I need to look into the costs of hiring Jake the Snake, William Regal and the London Arena for one night...any ideas? this project rules!

**The Mackem** · 03-12-2004, 01:20 PM

Can you not make the figures up?

**Spoon Bender** · 03-12-2004, 02:15 PM

If I wanted to get a cheap first by producing a shoddy project I could.

**Rob** · 03-12-2004, 05:25 PM

William Regal is under exclusive WWE contract so that's a no go. Phone London Arena (or whatever they are calling it now) and ask what the rental price is or how you can find out. I'd imagine you could get most UK workers for less than �200. Most big name indy U.S stars would probably demand flights and/or hotels depending on who it was. Right now, I'd say Raven and D-Lo Brown would be the biggest draws for a big show here and they'd probably cost something in the region of $1000 each.

**The Mackem** · 03-12-2004, 05:59 PM

It would be cool booking your own show.

**Rob** · 03-12-2004, 06:01 PM

Me and my mate considered doing one a while back but we found it would cost 10 grand roughly just to a show in a 2,000 building (including talent).

Didn't even consider the coffee budget

**The Mackem** · 03-12-2004, 06:08 PM

Oh yeah, think of all the no-shows if there was no coffee on offer.

**Rob** · 03-12-2004, 07:21 PM

Dude, I'd be the first out the door so I could hardly blame them.

**Dave Youell** · 03-12-2004, 07:59 PM

Spon Bender is you want some info on the costs of a msaller sized show (i.e for about 500ish peoppl) i can give you someestimate. PM if your interested

**Spoon Bender** · 03-13-2004, 09:19 AM

Cheers guys! The arena are being shits about getting back to me. I'll let you know what they say if I get through though.

I thought wrestlers under exclusive contract were allowed to take Indy bookings, but a fee had to be paid to the company owning the contract?

**Rob** · 03-13-2004, 10:18 AM

Nope. Only people with announcing contracts are allowed to accept indy dates. That would mean Al Snow, Jerry Lawler and Tazz (although nobody is gonna get Tazz).

**Spoon Bender** · 03-15-2004, 11:44 AM

London arena is somewhere in the regeon of �30K for one night!!! Ouch! Glad it's only theoretical!

It's pretty sick actually, I worked out that hiring 3 well known American stars to appear would cost about �7,000 including fees, flights and accomodation. I included Regal in the end (I doubt my leturer knows THAT much about WWE contracts) and added an extra 2K to his fee with the assumption that some of it would go to WWE. Having done that I then worked out that I could book about 10 British Indy workers for just over �1,000! Damn those guys need a union!

**The Mackem** · 03-15-2004, 12:57 PM

Yeah I thought it wouldn't be cheap. I guess that's why US Indy feds don't hire MSG and the like.

Do you also have to include your booking card, insurance costs, health and saftey requirements as well?

**Rob** · 03-15-2004, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoon Bender

London arena is somewhere in the regeon of �30K for one night!!! Ouch! Glad it's only theoretical!

It's pretty sick actually, I worked out that hiring 3 well known American stars to appear would cost about �7,000 including fees, flights and accomodation. I included Regal in the end (I doubt my leturer knows THAT much about WWE contracts) and added an extra 2K to his fee with the assumption that some of it would go to WWE. Having done that I then worked out that I could book about 10 British Indy workers for just over �1,000! Damn those guys need a union!

What other 2 Americans did you pick?

If you were able to get say D'Lo Brown, Raven and Teddy Hart (easy the most over indy star right now) then I think it's feeasble that you could draw 5000 people with the right promotion and building. For any show, you'd need more than 3 Americans though. Possibly exploit Mexico's economy and get 2 stars from there to do a match together.

**Dave Youell** · 03-16-2004, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoon Bender

London arena is somewhere in the regeon of �30K for one night!!! Ouch! Glad it's only theoretical!

It's pretty sick actually, I worked out that hiring 3 well known American stars to appear would cost about �7,000 including fees, flights and accomodation. I included Regal in the end (I doubt my leturer knows THAT much about WWE contracts) and added an extra 2K to his fee with the assumption that some of it would go to WWE. Having done that I then worked out that I could book about 10 British Indy workers for just over �1,000! Damn those guys need a union!

I think your overpaying the UK workers there mate

**The Mackem** · 03-16-2004, 07:48 AM

I think he means he's getting 10 works for a grand, i.e �100 each.

**Spoon Bender** · 03-16-2004, 08:19 AM

�100 a piece was it, and that's a generous! I'd feel bad booking talent for that low, but at least it's twice what Shane paid. Still pretty crappy though.

Don't need to give the card, just an overview of the story behind the event.

The other 2 Americans were Raven and D'Lo, I've also factored in having Jake the Snake (though probably in a non wrestling role). Figured he'd cost about half what the others did due to the fact that you don't have to pay for flights and because (I'd hope) he doesn't charge as much per show.
Might add a few quid to get some Mexicans in, trouble is, I'm almost over my 50K limit already and I need to show that the show can break even. Haven't factored in sponsorship yet though.

**The Mackem** · 03-16-2004, 08:55 AM

I'll give you �1 to have my name on Jonny Storms wrestling attire. If you are using Storm.

**Rob** · 03-16-2004, 01:57 PM

If you had 50K to run a show, you could easy break even. Hell you should make money in reality. And with a national Wrestling only channel, you could even get TV.

**The Mackem** · 03-16-2004, 02:19 PM

Me and Rob could be announcers.

**Rob** · 03-16-2004, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mackem

Me and Rob could be announcers.

And we work for coffee.

A mackem and a jockney? Trouble written all over it

**The Mackem** · 03-16-2004, 02:46 PM

"Be quiet Harvey, nobody tuned in to hear what you think"

**Rob** · 03-16-2004, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mackem

"Be quiet Harvey, nobody tuned in to hear what you think"

"....."

**Dave Youell** · 03-17-2004, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mackem

I think he means he's getting 10 works for a grand, i.e �100 each.

Yeah i know and that's loads over what average workers get.

Doug Williams who many regaurd as the best worker in the UK makes around that for UK and he's the cream of the crop and is dam difficult to book right now as it is with his sucess in NOAH.

Spoony, how much were you gonna charge for tickets?

**The Mackem** · 03-17-2004, 08:02 AM

How much does Dave Youell D.I.Y cost per apearance?

**Dave Youell** · 03-17-2004, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mackem

How much does Dave Youell D.I.Y cost per apearance?

Me?

Christ if i can get work i've work for free as long as i get travel costs, but overall my wages have ranged from �5 to �70

I only got �70 cos it was a show in my home town and i got a lot of punters in plus i set up alot of the show

**The Mackem** · 03-17-2004, 08:07 AM

Put Youell in the show Spoon Bender, he's value for money.

**Dave Youell** · 03-17-2004, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mackem

Put Youell in the show Spoon Bender, he's value for money.

Yes, yes he is i agree with Mackem

**Mike the Metal Ed** · 03-17-2004, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mackem

Put ~~Youell~~ Alex Steel in the show Spoon Bender, he's value for money.

03-05-2004, 08:57 AM	#1
Spoon Bender Invincible Member Posts: 2,941	Calling anyone with knowledge of the UK Indy scene Hi guys, I'm putting together a degree project on arts funding at the moment and I need some help getting together info about the costs involved in running a one off wrestling show. I remember that FWA ran that big event about a year ago where they basically showcased British talent, it went out on Bravo, but I don't remember what it was called. Does anyone have any info on that show as it's pretty much exactly the kind of thing I'm looking at. As well as that I'm interested in things like basic rates of pay for Indy workers in the UK and places to buy wrestling supplies. Last of all can anyone think of any famous British wrestlers (all I can think of is Regal) and if they have websites etc? I know that there's alot of people here who know about this kind of stuff so any info you can give would be helpfull. I'll try and post the project up in the wrestling forum when it's finished, hopefully it'll make an interesting read. Thanks guys, Spoony I am INVINCIBLE! Tpww LHW champion Master of the :meh: The Last X-Pac Mark

03-05-2004, 05:00 PM	#2
The Mackem VG + Q&A FORUM REPRESENT Posts: 38,940	Jody Fleisch (I know he's retired), Jonny Storm (maybe not totally famous). Man what was that FWA event called again? The only one I've seen since is Frontiers of Honor. Well bits of it. Err yeah bump

03-05-2004, 05:04 PM	#3
The Mackem VG + Q&A FORUM REPRESENT Posts: 38,940	Doug Williams, Jack Xavier

03-05-2004, 05:05 PM	#4
Mr. Monday Morning All Part Of The Plan Posts: 12,125	Frontiers of Honor was the cross-promotion with Ring of Honor, could be what he means. As for other UK wrestlers, there's Doug Williams, he's had a couple good stints in RoH. Fit Finlay's pretty well known too.

03-05-2004, 05:06 PM	#5
The Mackem VG + Q&A FORUM REPRESENT Posts: 38,940	I think he means that one where it was like a tournament. If I remember right Eddie Guerrero and Brian Lawler competed that night.

03-05-2004, 05:31 PM	#6
Rob Part time poster Posts: 22,963	I think it was Revival. Famous British wrestlers? Doug Williams would probably be the most well known who is actively working. Dynamite Kid is the biggest all time with a website (no way is he bigger than Davey Boy overall). Average pay is next to nothing. I know Jody Fleisch, who was one of the biggest names in the British biz, only got �50 for working 3 matches at Revival and Alex Shane was proud of this (what a dickhead but thats another story).

03-05-2004, 06:09 PM	#7
The Mackem VG + Q&A FORUM REPRESENT Posts: 38,940	�50? damn.

03-05-2004, 06:10 PM	#8
The Mackem VG + Q&A FORUM REPRESENT Posts: 38,940	Tell us the Alex Shane story Rob

03-05-2004, 06:51 PM	#9
Rob Part time poster Posts: 22,963	Okay I'll try to be brief (which means it will probably go on forever ) Over on the UK Fan Forum, most of us were complaining about how some UK show was selling it's front row tickets for like �60. Alex Shane (the booker) had the excuse that if you didn't want the �60 tickets then buy cheaper ones and got all defensive, Well I was the first person to openingly speak up about it being daylight robbery. My arguement was we, as fans, are allowed to publically speak up and say if we think it's robbery charging �60 for ringside tickets for a glorified indy show especially since WWE were charging �45 for the same tickets for PPVs. If we work hard for our money, we deserve value for it and I, along with many, didn't think that was value and saying "buy cheaper tickets" was a bullshit excuse because if the ringside tickets aren't value than neither are the cheaper ones (since you get a worse seat). Anyway, like EVERYONE then spoke up and agreed with my post so Alex Shane got the arsehole and then got another ID and said if I had balls I'd go to Finsbury Park and say that to his face. I found out it was him and bad mouthed him more and said if he, a trained pro wrestler, wanted to fight a fan then I'd go but I was bringing a few of the boys. Needless to say, he never spoke of it again.

03-05-2004, 07:18 PM	#10
Ricky Posts: 5,659	Do you mean British Uprising? And LOL @ Alex Shane challenging Rob to a fight.

03-05-2004, 07:25 PM	#11
Rob Part time poster Posts: 22,963	Well technically it was whatever monkey name he was posting under. We did get him on Yahoo IM later and my ex girlfriend made him look like a right mug. He uses his real name in chat rooms and calls himself a pro wrestler by the way. She was like "my bf and his brother have heard of you" and he said "oh thanks, I'm glad they are fans" and she said "no, they think you suck" and when he asked to put her on his friends list, she told him to fuck off and get a life. Childish but it was sooooo funny here anyways.

03-12-2004, 07:06 AM	#12
Spoon Bender Invincible Member Posts: 2,941	Nice. I think Revival was the one I was thinking off. Right...now I need to look into the costs of hiring Jake the Snake, William Regal and the London Arena for one night...any ideas? this project rules!

03-12-2004, 01:20 PM	#13
The Mackem VG + Q&A FORUM REPRESENT Posts: 38,940	Can you not make the figures up?

03-12-2004, 02:15 PM	#14
Spoon Bender Invincible Member Posts: 2,941	If I wanted to get a cheap first by producing a shoddy project I could.

03-12-2004, 05:25 PM	#15
Rob Part time poster Posts: 22,963	William Regal is under exclusive WWE contract so that's a no go. Phone London Arena (or whatever they are calling it now) and ask what the rental price is or how you can find out. I'd imagine you could get most UK workers for less than �200. Most big name indy U.S stars would probably demand flights and/or hotels depending on who it was. Right now, I'd say Raven and D-Lo Brown would be the biggest draws for a big show here and they'd probably cost something in the region of $1000 each.

03-12-2004, 05:59 PM	#16
The Mackem VG + Q&A FORUM REPRESENT Posts: 38,940	It would be cool booking your own show.

03-12-2004, 06:01 PM	#17
Rob Part time poster Posts: 22,963	Me and my mate considered doing one a while back but we found it would cost 10 grand roughly just to a show in a 2,000 building (including talent). Didn't even consider the coffee budget

03-12-2004, 06:08 PM	#18
The Mackem VG + Q&A FORUM REPRESENT Posts: 38,940	Oh yeah, think of all the no-shows if there was no coffee on offer.

03-12-2004, 07:21 PM	#19
Rob Part time poster Posts: 22,963	Dude, I'd be the first out the door so I could hardly blame them.

03-12-2004, 07:59 PM	#20
Dave Youell 1/2 Optimist 1/2 Amazing Posts: 12,427	Spon Bender is you want some info on the costs of a msaller sized show (i.e for about 500ish peoppl) i can give you someestimate. PM if your interested

03-13-2004, 09:19 AM	#21
Spoon Bender Invincible Member Posts: 2,941	Cheers guys! The arena are being shits about getting back to me. I'll let you know what they say if I get through though. I thought wrestlers under exclusive contract were allowed to take Indy bookings, but a fee had to be paid to the company owning the contract?

03-13-2004, 10:18 AM	#22
Rob Part time poster Posts: 22,963	Nope. Only people with announcing contracts are allowed to accept indy dates. That would mean Al Snow, Jerry Lawler and Tazz (although nobody is gonna get Tazz).

03-15-2004, 11:44 AM	#23
Spoon Bender Invincible Member Posts: 2,941	London arena is somewhere in the regeon of �30K for one night!!! Ouch! Glad it's only theoretical! It's pretty sick actually, I worked out that hiring 3 well known American stars to appear would cost about �7,000 including fees, flights and accomodation. I included Regal in the end (I doubt my leturer knows THAT much about WWE contracts) and added an extra 2K to his fee with the assumption that some of it would go to WWE. Having done that I then worked out that I could book about 10 British Indy workers for just over �1,000! Damn those guys need a union!

03-15-2004, 12:57 PM	#24
The Mackem VG + Q&A FORUM REPRESENT Posts: 38,940	Yeah I thought it wouldn't be cheap. I guess that's why US Indy feds don't hire MSG and the like. Do you also have to include your booking card, insurance costs, health and saftey requirements as well?

03-16-2004, 07:48 AM	#27
The Mackem VG + Q&A FORUM REPRESENT Posts: 38,940	I think he means he's getting 10 works for a grand, i.e �100 each.

03-16-2004, 08:19 AM	#28
Spoon Bender Invincible Member Posts: 2,941	�100 a piece was it, and that's a generous! I'd feel bad booking talent for that low, but at least it's twice what Shane paid. Still pretty crappy though. Don't need to give the card, just an overview of the story behind the event. The other 2 Americans were Raven and D'Lo, I've also factored in having Jake the Snake (though probably in a non wrestling role). Figured he'd cost about half what the others did due to the fact that you don't have to pay for flights and because (I'd hope) he doesn't charge as much per show. Might add a few quid to get some Mexicans in, trouble is, I'm almost over my 50K limit already and I need to show that the show can break even. Haven't factored in sponsorship yet though.

03-16-2004, 08:55 AM	#29
The Mackem VG + Q&A FORUM REPRESENT Posts: 38,940	I'll give you �1 to have my name on Jonny Storms wrestling attire. If you are using Storm.

03-16-2004, 01:57 PM	#30
Rob Part time poster Posts: 22,963	If you had 50K to run a show, you could easy break even. Hell you should make money in reality. And with a national Wrestling only channel, you could even get TV.

03-16-2004, 02:19 PM	#31
The Mackem VG + Q&A FORUM REPRESENT Posts: 38,940	Me and Rob could be announcers.

03-16-2004, 02:46 PM	#33
The Mackem VG + Q&A FORUM REPRESENT Posts: 38,940	"Be quiet Harvey, nobody tuned in to hear what you think"

03-17-2004, 08:02 AM	#36
The Mackem VG + Q&A FORUM REPRESENT Posts: 38,940	How much does Dave Youell D.I.Y cost per apearance?