I honestly don't see that big a difference between the Knockouts and the Divas

[Gertner]

I've been watching TNA for some time and have been listening to the cliams that the Knockout matches are SOOOO much better than the Divas matches, but after actually watching the matches instead of taking a piss break, the Knockout matches are pretty much the same as the Divas. I don't get all the hype about the Knockouts except for Velvet Sky's hott fucking ass.

[FourFifty]

So do you think Helms tells people he rocked her like a hurricane?

[BigDaddyCool]

WWE and TNA's womens divs are fairly equal in terms of skill. Ever since Trish, women's wrestling in the big 2 has been fairly decent, and sometimes the best part of the show.

[Destor]

WWE's stuff has picked up in the past 4 months.

[BigDaddyCool]

It really helps when WWE divas like Canidice Michelle are injured so they have to use Mickie James.

[Destor]

SO true.

I will say in defense of the Knockout division vs the WWE Divas the Knockouts get a fair ammount of TV time and get treated with legitimacy where as the Diva matches do feel like the WWE WANT you to take a piss break.

[Volare]

I say lets look at it like this...who would be the top 3 performers from TNA and WWE?

[BigDaddyCool]

I rather do top 5, WWE: Mikie James, Beth Phonix, Victoria, Melina, and Nattie Niedhart. If they just condence it to those 5, it would be a nice division.

[KingofOldSchool]

WWE and TNA's womens divs are fairly equal in terms of skill. Ever since Trish, women's wrestling in the big 2 has been fairly decent, and sometimes the best part of the show.

Trish is the most overrated Diva of all time.

[Gertner]

I say lets look at it like this...who would be the top 3 performers from TNA and WWE?

Awesome Kong
ODB
Taylor Wilde maybe?

Mickie James
Beth Phoenix
Gail Kim(when she debuts, until then probably Victoria or Nattie Neidhart)

[Mr. Nerfect]

TNA has Awesome Kong. That is bonus points right there. She could so easily credibly mix it up with the guys. And not in a stupid Chyna way. I said credibly.

The Knockout Division has stumbled a bit, and the WWE have also gotten better with the treatment of their women (the improvement of nearly all of them has helped, too). That's tightened the gap a lot. Originally, it was also the booking of the Knockouts that was fantastic. Now, apparently Scott D'Amore doesn't have nearly as much control over them as he once did. Wait, is D'Amore even still with the company? I hope so.

Some random notes on the ladies:

* I'd love to see Mickie James and Victoria get drafted to ECW next year, so that they can work on both shows, and really help all the other girls polish their skills.

* Jillian Hall and Katie Lea Burchill are both really talented. It's a shame they're being used as fodder/overlooked. I suppose the women's divisions need fodder, though.

* Alicia Fox is actually meant to be really impressive in the ring for a girl who was hired because of her modeling (or whatever) experience. If she works with Finlay, and DJ Gabriel teaches her a thing or two behind the scenes, she could be pretty awesome down the track.

* Cheerleader Melissa is under TNA contract. While she serves a great purpose as Raisha Saeed, I'd love to see her do double-duty as a more impactful character. I repeat, Cheerleader Melissa is under fucking TNA contract. That should be more important than it is currently factoring out to be.

* TNA should consider hiring Molly Holly to be a credible Knockouts Division representative for the Main Event Mafia. Of course, they'd probably call her "Polly Golly" and then change her name to something they think sounds bad-ass but really isn't (like "Pollygon") but, the wrestling would at least be good. I'd actually consider tolerating the Pollygon name if her finishing move was called "Polly-Gone."

[AKin3D]

Wait, is D'Amore even still with the company? I hope so.

No, he quit in August. He said it was to be closer to his son, take care of his school, and a company, but like you said the management had taken away his controll and just shoved off any ideas he offered. Though he said this had nothing to do with his quitting, you have to believe so. At less he and Jeff are still talking, so maybe on day he might come back.

[GD]

I agree dude, all of them have vaginas.

[KingofOldSchool]

TNA has Awesome Kong. That is bonus points right there. She could so easily credibly mix it up with the guys. And not in a stupid Chyna way. I said credibly.


Only because she's fat.

[BigDaddyCool]

* I'd love to see Mickie James and Victoria get drafted to ECW next year, so that they can work on both shows, and really help all the other girls polish their skills.

There are no other women on ECW that are wrestlers, why would you take 2 of the best women wrestlers out of the division?

* Jillian Hall and Katie Lea Burchill are both really talented. It's a shame they're being used as fodder/overlooked. I suppose the women's divisions need fodder, though.

They are only decent, they aren't really really good. They have the work rate of midcarders, but none of the razz-dazzle of a maineventer, they are fine where they are at.

* Alicia Fox is actually meant to be really impressive in the ring for a girl who was hired because of her modeling (or whatever) experience. If she works with Finlay, and DJ Gabriel teaches her a thing or two behind the scenes, she could be pretty awesome down the track.

Is this from the same sources that say Doug Basham is the greatest wrestler ever? Quit basing your opinion solely off dirt sheets and watch the product from time to time, so you can actaully see if they are any good. I haven't seen Alicia Fox wrestle yet, because oddly enough she hasn't on WWE's main programs.

* Cheerleader Melissa is under TNA contract. While she serves a great purpose as Raisha Saeed, I'd love to see her do double-duty as a more impactful character. I repeat, Cheerleader Melissa is under fucking TNA contract. That should be more important than it is currently factoring out to be.

TNA has its head up its ass, plus the Knockout Division is pretty full. I can see down the road she will be used as a wrestler, but chill out. I repeat this is TNA, they have their head up their ass.

* TNA should consider hiring Molly Holly to be a credible Knockouts Division representative for the Main Event Mafia. Of course, they'd probably call her "Polly Golly" and then change her name to something they think sounds bad-ass but really isn't (like "Pollygon") but, the wrestling would at least be good. I'd actually consider tolerating the Pollygon name if her finishing move was called "Polly-Gone."

That is a silly idea. Not everything needs to revolve around MEM. Plus there is the fact Molly Holly doesn't wrestle any more and is in involed in various Chistian Ministiers. While she said she will never say no to wrestling again, I doubt she would look towards TNA because she is on good terms with WWE and they are more likely to pay her more.

[Innovator]

I don't mind just watching Alicia dance

[BigDaddyCool]

No, noid read in a dirt sheet that she is the second coming of Wrestling Christ, she has to wrestle.

[Kane Knight]

I've been watching TNA for some time and have been listening to the cliams that the Knockout matches are SOOOO much better than the Divas matches, but after actually watching the matches instead of taking a piss break, the Knockout matches are pretty much the same as the Divas. I don't get all the hype about the Knockouts except for Velvet Sky's hott fucking ass.

Fanboys always look for excuses to watch.

[BigDaddyCool]

I've been watching TNA for some time and have been listening to the cliams that the Knockout matches are SOOOO much better than the Divas matches, but after actually watching the matches instead of taking a piss break, the Knockout matches are pretty much the same as the Divas. I don't get all the hype about the Knockouts except for Velvet Sky's hott fucking ass.

I believe most of the claims come from people who only watch on program instead of the other. The Kong, Kim, ODB fued was pretty good. But the rest of TNA's women, from what I remember are ok, not great. WWE has a lot of crappy chicks that are pretty but can't really work, and they push them cause of playboy instead of the ones that can work.

[Kane Knight]

I believe most of the claims come from people who only watch on program instead of the other. The Kong, Kim, ODB fued was pretty good. But the rest of TNA's women, from what I remember are ok, not great. WWE has a lot of crappy chicks that are pretty but can't really work, and they push them cause of playboy instead of the ones that can work.

And don't forget, TNA only hires serious workers, where WWE hires cleavage and hosses.

Simultaneously, when they're pushing someone I like, they are doing a great job, even if they're also pushing a hoss or talentless hooker and doing a bad job at the same time.

[.44 Magdalene]

Alot of it's in the presentation. Most of TNA's women do a little less hair pulling and catfighting, and a little more actual wrestling moves. I remember watching like, a hardcore match or some shit between chicks in TNA, and my girlfriend was absolutely stunned that they weren't just having an evening gown match or something. WWE definitely has talented women, but they tend to get downplayed as the tits instead of being pushed as legitimate wrestlers in their own right.

Plus, they keep pushing stupid bitches like Candice Michelle. It's really about the booking--TNA's pretty damn retarded most of the time, but they tend to book their women's division like it was made of diamonds and win. WWE tends to book their women like an afterthought--it's just boobies to take up time between the real matches. Which is a shame, because there's at least a handful of divas I'd rather see wrestle a solid, real, non-gimmicky match than alot of the male wrestlers.

[KingofOldSchool]

Plus, they keep pushing stupid bitches like Candice Michelle. It's really about the booking--TNA's pretty damn retarded most of the time, but they tend to book their women's division like it was made of diamonds and win. WWE tends to book their women like an afterthought--it's just boobies to take up time between the real matches. Which is a shame, because there's at least a handful of divas I'd rather see wrestle a solid, real, non-gimmicky match than alot of the male wrestlers.

When is the last time you saw a gimmick Divas match like bra and panties, paddle on a pole, pudding match, etc. on WWE TV?

[BigDaddyCool]

Oh bullshit on the hair pulling. Last time I watched TNA, there was more hair pulling from them than WWE.

Also, TNA still has Rhaka Khan, So Cal Val, and Christy Hemme, they are all pretty awful in ring.

I think the womens divisions are fairly equal right now.

[BigDaddyCool]

When is the last time you saw a gimmick Divas match like bra and panties, paddle on a pole, pudding match, etc. on WWE TV?

To be fair, they have one everys so often on PPV, but recently it has been straight singles or tag matches, at least on Raw. I never really pay attention to smackdown.

[.44 Magdalene]

I thought we were talking a little more generally, but okay. Lately WWE's been seriousing up their women's division (not counting the butterfly belt), and TNA's seems to be losing a little steam in terms of on-air focus. I guess that's evening it out, at least for the last month and a half or so.

[RGWhat316]

I think it can be said that neither company will properly use their women right. TNA does have more of the actual women wrestlers, but they don't always act like it. The beautiful people can actually wrestle, but maybe aren't allowed to show it all the time.

WWE has gotten better, but still sets themselves back at times. For example Mickie and Khali last night. It annoys me when they take the actual talented wrestlers they do have and pull something like that. That segment should have been left for one of the models turned wrestlers. Even Beth Phoenix doesn't seem to get enough to do based on wrestling. She is most known for being with Santino.

But as for comparison, I will give TNA the nod for having more actual wrestlers and usually knowing what to do with them. While WWE has people like Mickie James, Katie Lea, Victoria, Natalya usually just sitting in the background, while the models are usually in the spotlight.

[Mr. Nerfect]

There are no other women on ECW that are wrestlers, why would you take 2 of the best women wrestlers out of the division?

You do realise that ECW has a standing talent exchange program with both RAW and SmackDown!, don't you? You do realise that I explained this in my original post. Mickie James and Victoria being part of the ECW brand would not only allow them to work ECW from time-to-time, but it will also allow them to appear on both RAW and SmackDown!. They will be a part of both divisions. It's not effectively removing them from either.

It also gives them a bit more of a "unique" quality to their positioning in the divisions. They'd be the only two real female wrestlers from ECW. That allows them to have something to promote about them. Also, while ECW doesn't have any female wrestlers at the moment, maybe they should?

They are only decent, they aren't really really good. They have the work rate of midcarders, but none of the razz-dazzle of a maineventer, they are fine where they are at.

Have you seen them work? I'm just asking, seeing as they rarely appear on RAW or SmackDown!. I don't want you to base your opinion off things like dirt sheets.

Jillian Hall is probably around as good as Melina in the ring. Probably a bit better, but not treated anywhere near as seriously. Katie Lea is the real deal for females. I have seen her work, and I am in love with her. Both may be fine where they are at (getting paid lots of money for doing next to nothing besides looking hot), but they could do so much better.

Is this from the same sources that say Doug Basham is the greatest wrestler ever? Quit basing your opinion solely off dirt sheets and watch the product from time to time, so you can actaully see if they are any good. I haven't seen Alicia Fox wrestle yet, because oddly enough she hasn't on WWE's main programs.

No one has ever said that Doug Basham is the greatest wrestler ever. Would this be a straw man, BDC? My sources for Basham being a great technical wrestler were Chris Benoit and Jim Cornette, by the way. Also, I've tried watching all three shows on a regular basis now. I do base my opinion off what I have seen on the shows. You're way off there.

That being said, I don't see a big problem with believing someone like Finlay when they say a young talent is impressive, as long as you take it as its worth, and specify that it's just something I've hearded. All I meant by my point about Alicia Fox tearing it up in FCW is that you shouldn't be surprised if she turns out to be good. If she turns out to be horrible, well fair enough. It's a non-point you brought up.

Also, why is it odd that she hasn't worked any matches on RAW, SmackDown! or ECW? She's been up for like three weeks as a valet to DJ Gabriel.

TNA has its head up its ass, plus the Knockout Division is pretty full. I can see down the road she will be used as a wrestler, but chill out. I repeat this is TNA, they have their head up their ass.

Of course TNA has its head up its ass. Why did you find the need to repeat this twice? Are you taking up your own "Noid Post" equivalency gimmick? Don't.

That is a silly idea. Not everything needs to revolve around MEM. Plus there is the fact Molly Holly doesn't wrestle any more and is in involed in various Chistian Ministiers. While she said she will never say no to wrestling again, I doubt she would look towards TNA because she is on good terms with WWE and they are more likely to pay her more.

Congratulations, you picked up on that idea not being entirely serious. Bravo.

Not everything does need to revolve around the MEM, but I can see them wanting to control every title in the company. If Molly Holly was to return to wrestling, I wonder if the WWE would hire her again because she's not what they typically look for in Divas. TNA may be more interested because of her wrestling skill.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't mind just watching Alicia dance

She's the best girl they've given the role of "dancing slut" to, let me say that.

[BigDaddyCool]

You do realise that ECW has a standing talent exchange program with both RAW and SmackDown!, don't you? You do realise that I explained this in my original post. Mickie James and Victoria being part of the ECW brand would not only allow them to work ECW from time-to-time, but it will also allow them to appear on both RAW and SmackDown!. They will be a part of both divisions. It's not effectively removing them from either.

It also gives them a bit more of a "unique" quality to their positioning in the divisions. They'd be the only two real female wrestlers from ECW. That allows them to have something to promote about them. Also, while ECW doesn't have any female wrestlers at the moment, maybe they should?

I realize they have a talent exchange, but they don't have a women's division. There is no point of putting female wrestlers in ECW without a female division. It would be easier just to get a talent exchange between Raw and Smackdown in the women's divisions

Jillian Hall is probably around as good as Melina in the ring. Probably a bit better, but not treated anywhere near as seriously. Katie Lea is the real deal for females. I have seen her work, and I am in love with her. Both may be fine where they are at (getting paid lots of money for doing next to nothing besides looking hot), but they could do so much better.
I'm unimpressed with them. They can go, but neither have the it factor, I have seen them wrestle many times.



No one has ever said that Doug Basham is the greatest wrestler ever. Would this be a straw man, BDC? My sources for Basham being a great technical wrestler were Chris Benoit and Jim Cornette, by the way. Also, I've tried watching all three shows on a regular basis now. I do base my opinion off what I have seen on the shows. You're way off there.
Benoit?!?!?! He was awful. Boringest worker ever. Cornette is very hit and miss. If he was half as good as you make him out to be, he would be running a successful wrestling promotion.


Of course TNA has its head up its ass. Why did you find the need to repeat this twice? Are you taking up your own "Noid Post" equivalency gimmick? Don't.

I was actaully agreeing, what I have seen of her, she has been decent. She should get to work more often, I was saying TNA is retarded, not you.

[BigDaddyCool]

If Molly Holly was to return to wrestling, I wonder if the WWE would hire her again because she's not what they typically look for in Divas. TNA may be more interested because of her wrestling skill.

Doubt she would. And if the first big if can be jumped (her coming back) she would still probably go with WWE as she already has a good relationship with them.

[KingofOldSchool]

If Molly Holly was to return to wrestling, I wonder if the WWE would hire her again because she's not what they typically look for in Divas. TNA may be more interested because of her wrestling skill.

Yeah because they just NOW started hiring blonde bimbos with boobs. :roll:

They've had those chicks since like 1996.

Hell the peak of those eye candy matches was back when Molly was still around.

Now they are focusing on the actual wrestling and not Tits and Ass.

If Molly came back, I would guarantee she would be right in the Women's Title picture on Raw.

[Kane Knight]

You do realise that ECW has a standing talent exchange program with both RAW and SmackDown!, don't you? You do realise that I explained this in my original post. Mickie James and Victoria being part of the ECW brand would not only allow them to work ECW from time-to-time, but it will also allow them to appear on both RAW and SmackDown!. They will be a part of both divisions. It's not effectively removing them from either.

It also gives them a bit more of a "unique" quality to their positioning in the divisions. They'd be the only two real female wrestlers from ECW. That allows them to have something to promote about them. Also, while ECW doesn't have any female wrestlers at the moment, maybe they should?

It really doesn't add much to the program to take them off their primary programs. Popping them on ECW would be great, if ECW had a larger time slot and wasn't already choked with talent, be it good or bad. Not to mention, WWE doesn't really like to mix up the men with the women, so we're relegated to a lot of one on one or mixed tag matches. Either that, or further choking the show by adding more women.

Finally, you're stripping any remaining identity of ECW for the sake of novelty.

Have you seen them work? I'm just asking, seeing as they rarely appear on RAW or SmackDown!. I don't want you to base your opinion off things like dirt sheets.

Last time you were asked about watching the product in question, you proudly proclaimed that you didn't.

Also, I've tried watching all three shows on a regular basis now.

I understand things may have changed, but still.

[Theo Dious]

TNA has a bit more spread in talent, and their women's division gets more time and better treatment. However, until they stop pushing the Beautiful People and Sharmell so damn hard, and until they stop making Kong look like a bitch to a damn Playboy model, they're not going to be really superior. Again, they have more potential in their talent pool, but I'd rather watch Mickie, Beth, Jillian, Victoria, and Melina than anything they have to offer.

Although, and speaking as a black guy who generally prefers white women, some odd part of me REALLY wants to tap Kong's ass.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Also speaking as a black guy who generally prefers white women, Tedious is fucking nuts.

[Nark Order]

Why is that, AT? Is it the contrast that turns you on?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Yeah, we'll call it that.

[Kane Knight]

It's just that black chicks are ugly. Who wants to fuck an ape?

[Juan]

^ wow

[Kane Knight]

Wait...I mean, I make all sorts of Nazi/Jew/Nigger cracks regularly, and that's the one that caught your attention?

[BigDaddyCool]

It's just that black chicks are ugly. Who wants to fuck an ape?

Wow...that is even a joke i wouldn't make.

[Kane Knight]

We push different boundaries, BDC.

[BigDaddyCool]

I don't know, I'm pretty offensive. I make Dresden jokes.

[BigDaddyCool]

That being said, I wonder if it was Mark Henry's idea to call himself a sliverback gorilla, or Micheal Hays.

[Xero]

I thought Hayes called him a nigger...

[Kane Knight]

I don't know, I'm pretty offensive. I make Dresden jokes.

Harry Dresden deserves whatever jokes are made about him.

I thought Hayes called him a nigger...

Only behind his back. He used euphemisms like "gorilla," "Fried Chicken Lover," and "Bike Thief" to his face. Good thing Negroes are slow, or he would have been pissed.

[Anybody Thrilla]

:n:

[Kane Knight]

Oh, lighten up, AT. You like everything.

[BigDaddyCool]

Anybody Thrilla hates racism towards blacks (and probably in general) so he is always reacting when someone is racist. While I understand his feelings, I find rolling with the punches takes away the power.

[Destor]

I f you're gonna be racist atleast be funny...

[Anybody Thrilla]

Yeah, what Destor said. I can appreciate a funny race-related joke, but that was just callous.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Either way, I'm not bent out of shape about it.

[Kane Knight]

Anybody Thrilla hates racism towards blacks (and probably in general) so he is always reacting when someone is racist. While I understand his feelings, I find rolling with the punches takes away the power.

Well, I am pretty heavily racist.

It was more interesting where the line was drawn, especially given the reason "da white women" are so revered.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I like when lines are drawn, especially in the sand, because Evolution was awesome. [/SUBJECT CHANGE]

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, what Destor said. I can appreciate a funny race-related joke, but that was just callous.

Pretend it's wrestling related, and lower your standards until it's enjoyable. ;)

[Destor]

I like when lines are drawn, especially in the sand, because Evolution was awesome. [/SUBJECT CHANGE]lol

You might be my favorite person right now

[BigDaddyCool]

You ever notice Evolution was all white guys...

[Kane Knight]

I like when lines are drawn, especially in the sand, because Evolution was awesome. [/SUBJECT CHANGE]


Evolution was the worst name for that group. It was the equivalent of namingOsama Bin Laden an American Hero.

[Kane Knight]

You ever notice Evolution was all white guys...

Bats is Latino, right? I suppose that's white, but so are JEws.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I thoght the name sort of made sense in terms of them showcasing the evolution of the business in terms of the past (Flair), present (Triple H), and future (Orton and Batista). What would you have called them?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Pretend it's wrestling related, and lower your standards until it's enjoyable. ;)

Nobody has ever been a victim of a wrestling-related hate crime, to my knowledge. Not really the same type of thing.

[Destor]

Not to mention the name was more a shot at the Horsemen saying evoltution was Horsemen 2.0...

[BigDaddyCool]

Bats is half Greek half Filipino.

Wait, what does this have to do with bitches again?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Batista banged a few divas.

[BigDaddyCool]

Yes, yes he did. He is also a grandpa.