View Full Version : Armageddon 2008 (Hardy's Time?)
Someone throw up a link and lets get this party started!
Discuss...
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 05:44 PM
Have to work at 12, so going to miss the last match. Someone send me a private message on who wins, so I can check it from work.
Why Lux? You know I start a Discussion/Match of the Night thread for every PPV!
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 05:46 PM
Jeff Hardy for the win people.
Now I have to start a different thread for match of the night, when we could've kept it all in one place
Why Lux? You know I start a Discussion/Match of the Night thread for every PPV!
I totally started doing this at Summerslam, you started right after that unless you count tipsters, plus we agreed like two months ago that we switch off!
Limelight hurting your eyes Juan :p
I have half a mind to start another discussion thread out of pure spite :rant:
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 05:54 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UZWGAE6DKlQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UZWGAE6DKlQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
I have half a mind to start another discussion thread out of pure spite :rant:
I see your rant and raise you a threat.
I think I'd rather just call your bluff...
Unless my bluff was a planned bluff.
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 06:03 PM
Ok, seriously guys, shut the fuck up.
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 06:05 PM
Oh yes I did
Someone get a jobber to post me a link.
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 06:09 PM
Tired of doing that yourself Lux?
thedamndest
12-14-2008, 06:48 PM
http://www.justin.tv/kgs_ppv
Splaya
12-14-2008, 06:49 PM
WOULD U GUYS GET THE FUCKING LINK UP
thedamndest
12-14-2008, 06:50 PM
Yes.
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 06:55 PM
Theddy is a jobber now LOL. Anyways thanks man.
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 06:57 PM
Wellness Hardy isn't winning anything tonight.
Someone get a jobber to post me a link.
Irony (from the Ancient Greek εἰρωνεία eironeía, meaning hypocrisy, deception, or feigned ignorance) is a literary or rhetorical device, in which there is an incongruity or discordance between what one says or does, and what one means or what is generally understood. Irony is a mode of expression that calls attention to discrepancy between two levels of knowledge. In fiction, it is a demonstration of the distance between the character's knowledge and that of the audience.
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 07:01 PM
How Lux thought no one would comment on that?
Must be some good green he is smoking tonight.
thedamndest
12-14-2008, 07:09 PM
I don't know how you don't all have that link already. It's the same one that gets posted every month.
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 07:11 PM
I dont think anyone else ever realized that. I know its usually justintv.com or whatev, but is it the exact same link?
Londoner
12-14-2008, 07:13 PM
Only just seen this thread,if the link works for me i'll be watching. so fucking drunk though lol
Londoner
12-14-2008, 07:14 PM
Also, jeff hardy wont win.
Xerzes
12-14-2008, 07:19 PM
Juan > Lux
thedamndest
12-14-2008, 07:19 PM
I dont think anyone else ever realized that. I know its usually justintv.com or whatev, but is it the exact same link?
It's the same site. Also they run other WWE/WCW/ECW shows constantly.
thedamndest
12-14-2008, 07:23 PM
Let me remind you all to vote in the Better Tag Team Competition:
http://tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85310
Mystic.Tenshi
12-14-2008, 07:37 PM
Please don't let this PPV suck I actually paid for it
Londoner
12-14-2008, 07:39 PM
i wanted to pay but don't have the money.
ClockShot
12-14-2008, 07:48 PM
So according to Ryan Clark, Miz and Morrison won the Tag Titles off of Punk and Kingston at a house show.
So does this seal it for CM Punk to win tonight?
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 07:51 PM
So according to Ryan Clark, Miz and Morrison won the Tag Titles off of Punk and Kingston at a house show.
So does this seal it for CM Punk to win tonight?
We can only hope.
Juan > Lux
This thread is about wrestling you dumb cunt, go make a thread in casual bitching or something :foc:
AKin3D
12-14-2008, 07:54 PM
*sigh* I think this might end up worse PPV of the year
Londoner
12-14-2008, 07:54 PM
This thread is about wrestling you dumb cunt, go make a thread in casual bitching or something :foc:
:lol:
And Matt Hardy starts the night *goes to facebook*
Mystic.Tenshi
12-14-2008, 08:03 PM
Here comes Matt to lose his title
Mystic.Tenshi
12-14-2008, 08:06 PM
Well that sucks
thedamndest
12-14-2008, 08:09 PM
Good investment so far, eh?
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:10 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Grisham sounds like Coachman?
Matt Hardy is my favorite wrestler. (http://www.tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85335)
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:14 PM
Matt Hardy is the better Hardy.
Am I the only one who thinks Grisham sounds like Coachman?
lol no
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:17 PM
Is Chavo goth now?
I take it this Who Attacked Jeff thing is gonna be Christian if they do re-sign him and probably Trips if they don't
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:19 PM
Gee I get the urge to beat Eve whenever I see her on TV too.
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:20 PM
IC Tourney final time...should be good.
Mystic.Tenshi
12-14-2008, 08:20 PM
Okay I went away for a minute did Koslov trash Matt?
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:21 PM
The unemployed Snitsky
Theo Dious
12-14-2008, 08:22 PM
lol Lillian fucked up
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:22 PM
Lilian botch!
is there a night where she DOESN'T fuck up?
Theo Dious
12-14-2008, 08:23 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Grisham sounds like Coachman?
No you aren't, when I watched Survivor Series I could have sworn I was hearing him.
Also, Punk had better win the fucking IC title, not Mysterio. :mad:
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:24 PM
Did someone just chant boring right when they locked up?
Theo Dious
12-14-2008, 08:24 PM
And I don't even LIKE Punk.
Theo Dious
12-14-2008, 08:24 PM
Did someone just chant boring right when they locked up?
That was me, I was just really loud.
thedamndest
12-14-2008, 08:25 PM
"TWO OF OUR GREATEST FAILURES AS WORLD CHAMPION...NOW COMPETING AT THE LEVEL BY ALL RIGHTS THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN COMPETING AT ALL ALONG!"
wtf is that guy shouting?
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:25 PM
This crowd sucks.
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:26 PM
wtf is that guy shouting?
I think "THIS IS BORING!"
Londoner
12-14-2008, 08:26 PM
think he's shouting 'miz& morrisson',dunno,lol
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:27 PM
Yeah Punk and Regal have a long, rich history which includes all of like three matches.
Theo Dious
12-14-2008, 08:28 PM
How many times is Cole going to pretend that Mysterio was a WHC?
Punk delivers that powerslam very nicely
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:30 PM
Crossface!
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 08:32 PM
"TWO OF OUR GREATEST FAILURES AS WORLD CHAMPION...NOW COMPETING AT THE LEVEL BY ALL RIGHTS THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN COMPETING AT ALL ALONG!"
And repped. Fuck I hated them as champs. Punk too soon and Rey at all.
thedamndest
12-14-2008, 08:32 PM
This could be Evan Bourne.
Londoner
12-14-2008, 08:32 PM
God this match sucks
It's not bad, just slow paced
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 08:33 PM
CM PUNK! and CENA SUCKS! sounds alot alike.
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 08:34 PM
That was cute thing Rey just did with the pin.
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 08:35 PM
Fuck, I dont want either to win.
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:35 PM
This could be Evan Bourne.
He didn't meet the age or talent requirements to participate.
Theo Dious
12-14-2008, 08:36 PM
YAY PUNK!
...now I feel dirty.
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 08:36 PM
Punk thank fuck.
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:36 PM
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Londoner
12-14-2008, 08:36 PM
glad thats over
Punk and Msyterio busted open hard way
AKin3D
12-14-2008, 08:37 PM
danm
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:38 PM
That was the best GTS since Punk debuted it.
thedamndest
12-14-2008, 08:38 PM
Wonder why he doesn't mix in the Vice given how many people GTS has busted open.
Props to Rey for taking it like a champ. Broken noses are not fun.
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:40 PM
Yes, you're a failure Jeff.
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:40 PM
The Uncharismatic Enigma
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 08:41 PM
Pearl Jam sucks
I dont mean that, I just want to razz KoOS
I sense Hardy could take it tonight.
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:42 PM
Pearl Jam sucks
I dont mean that, I just want to razz KoOS
K?
thedamndest
12-14-2008, 08:42 PM
Don't do it Nikkolai...er...Shawn.
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 08:43 PM
Hardy is winning tonight.
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:44 PM
Time for Bitchtits and HoBoKid.
thedamndest
12-14-2008, 08:46 PM
Looks like he bought his smile.
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 08:46 PM
EPIC BOOBS!
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:46 PM
HBK should have worn a "Property of JBL" shirt
AKin3D
12-14-2008, 08:46 PM
Looks like he bought his smile.
I was just thinking the same thing.
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:49 PM
Somewhere Marty Janettey is wishing for a job with JBL
thedamndest
12-14-2008, 08:50 PM
Too bad Turner still isn't in business.
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:51 PM
HBK is a shootin' now!
Theo Dious
12-14-2008, 08:51 PM
Hasn't HBK ever heard of making money doing public appearances, commercials... shit if Kennedy can be in a movie...?
thedamndest
12-14-2008, 08:52 PM
To sum up, I'm realeasing my new 3-disc DVD, on sale Tuesday, which you can pick up at WWEShop.com.
Theo Dious
12-14-2008, 08:53 PM
What is this doing on a PPV?
thedamndest
12-14-2008, 08:54 PM
Why is he even a heel now? BOO THIS MAN! HE'S BROKE!
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:55 PM
CAWdy is speaking for Orton now?
Theo Dious
12-14-2008, 08:55 PM
Workin for the man sucks! Do the honorable thing and let your family starve in the dirt!
Splaya
12-14-2008, 08:55 PM
wow, Legacy can even promo
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:56 PM
LOL the Bills
Theo Dious
12-14-2008, 08:57 PM
Dammit, I thought they were going to go with Edge as having attacked Jeff... if it turns out to be HHH I'll be so god damn pissed.
It better have been Christian. :mad:
Somebody gon get they wig split
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 08:57 PM
WIG SPLITTIN TIME
Theo Dious
12-14-2008, 08:58 PM
So is Hornswoggle a midget or a child? :wtf:
cigarette time... (sup ya'll)
cigarette time... (sup ya'll)
You read my mind, kind sir.
He is a midget child with magical powers and some kind of magic paint that makes tunnels out of solid walls. He is amazing.
I have an excellent stream if anyone would like the link.
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 09:00 PM
Henry wins sadly.
LOL @ some guy shouting 'Are ya hungry?!' when Henry was outside the ring
thedamndest
12-14-2008, 09:05 PM
He is clearly a special needs adult due to his inability to speak a coherent sentence, improper growth, and constant running. I think we are to assume Mrs. Finlay drank while she was pregnant, and possibly that she lived under the ring survived on ring sustenance.
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:06 PM
Henry just missed the Bonzai Drop
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:09 PM
Henry got his wig split
thedamndest
12-14-2008, 09:09 PM
God neither one of these people matter in the least.
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 09:10 PM
I think someone in the chat just said that Hornswaggle is Mark Henrys father.
People in the chat are retarded tho.
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:13 PM
Hey it's all the Divas no one cares about
Serious ROFL @ Santino's scream
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:14 PM
lol Kennedy telling people not to do drugs
AKin3D
12-14-2008, 09:15 PM
and yet he's buddies with RVD and the Hardys
Some guy just asked if Ron Simmons was Farooq. Christ.
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 09:19 PM
I really like Orton now, the look, feud and stable fit him.
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:19 PM
Kevin Thorn attacked Jeff Hardy
Some guy just asked if Ron Simmons was Farooq. Christ.
If it's anything like the majority of wrestling chat rooms, you could make pages worth of posts of the ridiculous things they say. 95% of wrestling fans are retarded, just one of those things
Splaya
12-14-2008, 09:20 PM
Legacy looked great walking out together. They just have the feel of Evolution
Orton's new music still sucks
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 09:21 PM
theonemangang1mg:<wbr>armaggeddon recap... Vladimir Kozlov defeats Matt Hardy to become the new ECW champion, CM Punk defeats William Regal for a shot (http://www.justin.tv/chat/ad?word=shot) at Rey Mysterio's Intercontiental Championship , Shawn michaels sells out, Mark Henry v Finlay will be a crap match (http://www.justin.tv/chat/ad?word=match), more...
El Fangel
12-14-2008, 09:22 PM
FAIL, JUST FAIL!
AKin3D
12-14-2008, 09:23 PM
:nono:
Splaya
12-14-2008, 09:24 PM
Let's see Manu and Cody are kicked out.
HMMMMM return of Dibiase to save Orton?
Let's see Manu and Cody are kicked out.
HMMMMM return of Dibiase to save Orton?
That's what I was thinking
Batista's clotheslines are shit
Viper like Orton is the best Orton.
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:29 PM
VINTAGE RANDY ORTON
What's up with this stream? it wont let me switch to full screen anymore.
Theo Dious
12-14-2008, 09:35 PM
Yes, Cole, we get it, they were in a stable together. Now shut your God damn mouth.
Viper is the new Rattlesnake
Splaya
12-14-2008, 09:36 PM
Tenay > Cole?
Splaya
12-14-2008, 09:37 PM
I AM PISSED OFF
WHY DOES HE NEED THE WIN
Theo Dious
12-14-2008, 09:37 PM
Well that was uninteresting.
thedamndest
12-14-2008, 09:38 PM
So that sucked.
That was lame. What does that win exactly do for Batista?
Wait what, Bats? really? WWE drops yet another ball.
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:38 PM
BOOOOOO
thedamndest
12-14-2008, 09:38 PM
Can't wait for Shawn Michaels bangbros though.
AKin3D
12-14-2008, 09:40 PM
God....
Batista better receive a Horsemen style beating tomorrow by Legacy to somewhat make up for this.
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:43 PM
Cena is spoilin' for a fight
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:44 PM
I'll be Mickie's helper
Maria is spoilin' for my dick in her ass.
god mickie james is so sexy
Fox, hook me up with that stream you were talking about.
The good one I had went down, so I'm using this one: http://www.justin.tv/mwov2
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:46 PM
Striker loves Mickie!
wow kelly is impressing me so far
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 09:48 PM
I got back just in time...
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 09:48 PM
Seinfeld just jumped the shark
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:49 PM
lol John Nord reference
The commentary is way more interesting when it's all 6 of them
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:49 PM
STYLES CLASH!!!
AKin3D
12-14-2008, 09:50 PM
The commentary is way more interesting when it's all 6 of them
:y:
Khali has a new theme, nice
maria needs to do porn. or just have sex with me. either way.
The Undertaker says 'Fuck you AJ Styles'
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:50 PM
lol new music for Khali?
The commentary is way more interesting when it's all 6 of them
Just thinking that, so many sexual references in the first minute alone.
McCool is such a stuck up bitch
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:52 PM
Booo what a spoil sport
she has herpes and doesnt want to spread. shes very conscientious.
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 09:53 PM
KHALI BUKAKI!
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 09:53 PM
EGG NOG PARTAY!
Theo Dious
12-14-2008, 09:53 PM
Oh Christ, here comes some geriatrics.
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 09:53 PM
He's gonna kiss Santos L. Halper?
AKin3D
12-14-2008, 09:53 PM
cue mea
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:53 PM
Michelle McCool's Finishers - The only TNA she'll ever have
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 09:53 PM
I fuckin knew it. When will it ever end
Splaya
12-14-2008, 09:53 PM
OH GOD NOOOOOOOOOO
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:54 PM
LOL
Splaya
12-14-2008, 09:54 PM
I'M FINE WITH THIS UNLESS SHE SHOWS HER TITS AGAIN.
IF SHE DOES, I'LL FAIL ALL MY FINALS TOMMOROW
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 09:54 PM
You know when Mae Young dies WWE creative will invent a flux capacitor and go back to 1998 and get her back.
For her, death is but a door, time is but a window
LOL, the commentary is getting so rediculious, they should stick with this.
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:55 PM
Cole laughing is priceless
Splaya
12-14-2008, 09:55 PM
Maybe he'll kiss her and she'll fall dead right in the ring
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:56 PM
haha
She rocked Khali's world, it would seem.
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 09:56 PM
Now we just need a Khali Mae Young romance storyline
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:56 PM
hahaha she plays spin the bottle with Mylanta
Are they having Regal vs. Punk tonight or on RAW?
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 09:57 PM
I thought this PPV was sponsored by Glover and/or JVC Kaboom Box...Mae Young was just on after all.
If Khali could have kept his face straight, this could have been legit funny
Also, 'She was alive when the Dead Sea was only sick' is probably the best line I've heard on TV all year. And Khali deserves every penny of his contract and most of Triple H's for being so into that
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 09:57 PM
The triple threat is last? Crazy
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 09:57 PM
CENA'S DONE IT I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 09:58 PM
Jericho screwjob please
It feels almost pointless to watch this match. Poor Jericho.
Splaya
12-14-2008, 09:58 PM
You know when Mae Young dies WWE creative will invent a flux capacitor and go back to 1998 and get her back.
For her, death is but a door, time is but a window
I wish that tommorow night on RAW they would just come on before the show starts and be like "Everyone came down with a disease that is associated with old women who shouldn't be in the ring anymore" and it has knocked the roster out for 2 years.
Then just show old RAW shows from 1998-2000 for the next 2 years :shifty:
I feel bad for guys like Jericho and HHH for having to sell that God awful STFU move.
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 09:59 PM
He put Cena in the old school Liontamer? Why wasn't I informed about this?
Splaya
12-14-2008, 10:00 PM
The triple threat is last? Crazy
Makes you wonder if maybe, just maybe, Jeff walks out with the strap
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 10:00 PM
I feel bad for guys like Jericho and HHH for having to sell that God awful STFU move.
They sell but who's buyin?
Jericho = Captain High Pants II
They sell but who's buyin?
All the toddlers in the audience.
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 10:01 PM
If Christian returns this completes an incredible 24 hours of my life
KingofOldSchool
12-14-2008, 10:01 PM
Makes you wonder if maybe, just maybe, Jeff walks out with the strap
They aren't wasting Jeff's potential title win on a third rate PPV.
Cena/Jericho will probably be some DQ finish.
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 10:01 PM
Yea you're right
Splaya
12-14-2008, 10:02 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
If Cena didn't come out acting like an idiot, I would respect him more
If Christian returns this completes an incredible 24 hours of my life
Ditto. And I've done absoloutly fuck all in the last 24 hours
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 10:03 PM
They aren't wasting Jeff's potential title win on a third rate PPV..
Normally I'd agree with you. Your logic is correct, but I've seen stranger shit happen in this fuckin company. It wouldn't suprise me if he finally won the belt at a house show. That's how headscratching it can be.
P.S. I love the old school boxing style intros
He put Cena in the old school Liontamer? Why wasn't I informed about this?
He's been using it for awhile now, pretty much ever since he won the World Heavyweight Title.
Theo Dious
12-14-2008, 10:04 PM
*counting on my fingers* How is Jericho a 5-time champion?
Are those "You Can't Wrestle!" chants I heard?
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 10:05 PM
Shows how often I watch the ppvs. I've seen him do the walls on tv but as far as I remember it's been the watered down version, even lately. I believe you tho I've just been seeing the wrong bits.
*counting on my fingers* How is Jericho a 5-time champion?
WCW Title (2 times)
Undisputed Title
WHC (2 times)
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 10:07 PM
*counting on my fingers* How is Jericho a 5-time champion?
Well, he technically is. The Undisputed win is WWF and WCW title wins, since he won them both on seperate pinfalls and united them.
He also one the WCW title off The Rock a few months earlier. That's 3 world titles there.
And since returning he won the title this september, and then again off Batista after he lost it briefly. So 5.
You could argue it's 4, for all intents and purposes, but it's 5.
Shows how often I watch the ppvs. I've seen him do the walls on tv but as far as I remember it's been the watered down version, even lately. I believe you tho I've just been seeing the wrong bits.
He also yelled "ASK HIM!" when he had Cena in it, despite it not being a match and there being no referee around. :cool:
He also yelled "ASK HIM!" when he had Cena in it, despite it not being a match and there being no referee around. :cool:
LOL yeah that was great
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Jeritron
12-14-2008, 10:09 PM
I watched his No Mercy ladder match, and Raw cage match, but he never used the walls fully since they were gimmick matches
Well, he technically is. The Undisputed win is WWF and WCW title wins, since he won them both on seperate pinfalls and united them.
He also one the WCW title off The Rock a few months earlier. That's 3 world titles there.
And since returning he won the title this september, and then again off Batista after he lost it briefly. So 5.
You could argue it's 4, for all intents and purposes, but it's 5.
It's definitely 5. He beat Rock for the WCW title, then he beat Austin for the WWF title, so even if he had lost the match to Austin, he would've still been an ex-WCW champion, albeit for all of 15 minutes.
It's arguably 6, with his "win that never happened" against HHH.
Theo Dious
12-14-2008, 10:11 PM
Well, he technically is. The Undisputed win is WWF and WCW title wins, since he won them both on seperate pinfalls and united them.
Gotcha, forgot that part.
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 10:11 PM
This match should be headlining the ppv. Something is brewing for the WWE title match. I'm not saying it's a Christian return or a Jeff Hardy title win, just something.
So does Cena win with the FU or STFU?
Jeritron
12-14-2008, 10:12 PM
Yes Fox, good point. To me it's 6* and that unofficial first is probably the best of them all
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