Has the Triple Crown (WWE) lost meaning? [Archive]

Xero

01-20-2009, 02:06 PM

Yes, it's lost all meaning considering WWE has 7 titles that count towards it. All the titles have lost all meaning. In the 90s and 80s, you had 3 champions and the titles were all regarded as an achievement rather than an accessory.

Yes, the size of the roster does have an affect on this, but that's why this should scale. Right now the Triple Crown/Grand Slam levels are out and unless you've won the 7 major titles it shouldn't be viewed as an accomplishment, barring those who achieved the goal when the three/four titles were the only titles in existence.

Ruien

01-20-2009, 02:08 PM

Triple crown now means obtaining the ECW, World Heavyweight, and WWE titles.

Juan

01-20-2009, 02:08 PM

^ Triple Crown is WWE/WHC, IC and Tag

thedamndest

01-20-2009, 02:09 PM

The title of "Triple Crown" winner doesn't amount to anything. What people actually remember and what is important are the individual runs. That's why when you compare CM Punk or Kane as a Triple Crown winner they look terrible compared to someone like Flair, Nash, Triple H (yeah, Grand Slam, but whatever).

Xero

01-20-2009, 02:10 PM

^ Triple Crown is WWE/WHC, IC and Tag

Why should this be the standard when there are more titles in the picture? And including the WHC is foolish when excluding the US title, as per my reply to the other thread.

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 02:12 PM

Also, if both versions of tag titles counts, why doesn't the us?

Juan

01-20-2009, 02:13 PM

Why should this be the standard when there are more titles in the picture? And including the WHC is foolish when excluding the US title, as per my reply to the other thread.

I get what you're saying, but wouldn't allowing more belts to be included amount to more wrestlers being able to achieve Triple Crown status thus making the Triple Crown title lose ALL meaning?

Juan

01-20-2009, 02:15 PM

Also, if both versions of tag titles counts, why doesn't the us?

Only the World tag titles count, should've made that clear in my initial post :$

Xero

01-20-2009, 02:16 PM

I get what you're saying, but wouldn't allowing more belts to be included amount to more wrestlers being able to achieve Triple Crown status thus making the Triple Crown title lose ALL meaning?

Of course, which is why I suggested making the new "Triple Crown" standard a 7 title "crown".

When you have multiple titles on similar levels you have to adapt. If the IC or WWE Tag titles were regarded as much higher than their counterparts you'd have a point, but they aren't.

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 02:17 PM

I'm aruging it already has. Also someone like MVP who has had meaningful runs as a US champion and Tag Team Champion wouldn't be counted as a Triple Crown Champion if he wins a Main Event title, while CM Punk has been a place holder paper champion as both World and Tag team champion. That is crap.

Juan

01-20-2009, 02:19 PM

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 02:19 PM

Only the World tag titles count, should've made that clear in my initial post :$

Angle, Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Rob Van Dam, and Booker T are all considered triple crown champions with the WWE Tag Team Champioships.

Juan

01-20-2009, 02:20 PM

Of course, which is why I suggested making the new "Triple Crown" standard a 7 title "crown".

When you have multiple titles on similar levels you have to adapt. If the IC or WWE Tag titles were regarded as much higher than their counterparts you'd have a point, but they aren't.

I would say the IC title, in the WWE Universe, is regarded higher than the US title. You have point with the tag tittles thought.

Juan

01-20-2009, 02:21 PM

Angle, Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Rob Van Dam, and Booker T are all considered triple crown champions with the WWE Tag Team Champioships.

Color me wrong then :-\

Xero

01-20-2009, 02:21 PM

Just remembered the World Tag title is the one with the WWF Tag title lineage, they really fucked that one up.

Xero

01-20-2009, 02:21 PM

I would say the IC title, in the WWE Universe, is regarded higher than the US title. You have point with the tag tittles thought.

Slightly higher, but still in the same bracket.

Juan

01-20-2009, 02:22 PM

Angle, Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Rob Van Dam, and Booker T are all considered triple crown champions with the WWE Tag Team Champioships.

Only Eddie and Angle I think

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 02:24 PM

The ECW and the US title as of the second don't count towards either the triple crown or grand slam champion status.

Xero

01-20-2009, 02:24 PM

Slightly higher, but still in the same bracket.

To add to this, IF we're assuming the IC title is higher than the US title, why doesn't the US title count towards a Grand Slam crown? It would be on the same level as the European title.

Xero

01-20-2009, 02:25 PM

The ECW and the US title as of the second don't count towards either the triple crown or grand slam champion status.

But why does the WHC count, then?

Xero

01-20-2009, 02:27 PM

I would suggest splitting these across the two major brands (SmackDown! triple crown and RAW triple crown) but rosters and titles change between brands too often for it to be viable.

Juan

01-20-2009, 02:27 PM

WWE should really address this.

01-20-2009, 02:28 PM

Didn't I make a thread on this less than a month ago?

01-20-2009, 02:28 PM

http://www.tpwwforums.com/showthread.php?t=85933

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 02:30 PM

But why does the WHC count, then?

Not a clue. You know...if the US title did count, Cena and Bradshaw would both be triple crown champions.

Juan

01-20-2009, 02:32 PM

So at the very least, CM Punk is a Brand Triple Crown winner.

Which may or may not have been mentioned already :shifty:

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 02:34 PM

Not even that, plus he did it backwards. For a brand triple crown, he should have won the WWE not the Heavyweight...even though the Heavyweight started life on Raw...

Destor

01-20-2009, 02:35 PM

You are infact only saying this because fo Punk, and imo it never had meaning at all. The grand slam is the only thing that's ever had meaning.

Xero

01-20-2009, 02:36 PM

You are infact only saying this because fo Punk, and imo it never had meaning at all. The grand slam is the only thing that's ever had meaning.

Even before the European title was instated?

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 02:38 PM

I like CM Punk, I'm not saying this because of him per say but more because of him becoming one quicker than Nash and realizing how many there have been in the past few years.

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 02:38 PM

The fact that there are more triple crown champions in the past 6 years than good wrestlers to never win a big one is a sign.

Destor

01-20-2009, 02:39 PM

Even before the European title was instated?
Yes. Triple was never a very big deal and was very rarely mentioned and even less than that was it noticed.

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 02:40 PM

Yes. Triple was never a very big deal and was very rarely mentioned and even less than that was it noticed.

How could it be mentioned more than it was noticed, moron.

Xero

01-20-2009, 02:41 PM

Yes. Triple was never a very big deal and was very rarely mentioned and even less than that was it noticed.

That's ridiculous reasoning considering WWE only really pushed the Grand Slam deal on Michaels.

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 02:43 PM

Oh, you gotta remember Destor is a wrestler, therefore knows more than us dumb marks.

Xero

01-20-2009, 02:45 PM

Clearly.

Destor

01-20-2009, 02:45 PM

Did you guys even watch back then? I don't think they even mentiond this accomplishment a single time.

Destor

01-20-2009, 02:45 PM

"accomplishment"

Destor

01-20-2009, 02:46 PM

If we're gonna talk about shit that's lost meaning we should talk about mid card titles, the actually matterd...

Xero

01-20-2009, 02:48 PM

So basically you're saying if it wasn't a big deal in kayfabe it doesn't matter.

Because the Grand Slam was such a big deal after the Michaels storyline, right?

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 02:49 PM

Back when?

Xero

01-20-2009, 02:49 PM

If we're gonna talk about shit that's lost meaning we should talk about mid card titles, the actually matterd...

This was established and agreed upon years ago.

Destor

01-20-2009, 02:58 PM

So basically you're saying if it wasn't a big deal in kayfabe it doesn't matter.

Because the Grand Slam was such a big deal after the Michaels storyline, right?
Yeah

Destor

01-20-2009, 02:59 PM

Oh, you gotta remember Destor is a wrestler, therefore knows more than us dumb marks.
This is true

Destor

01-20-2009, 02:59 PM

So basically you're saying if it wasn't a big deal in kayfabe it doesn't matter.

Because the Grand Slam was such a big deal after the Michaels storyline, right?
To add on this if it has no value in kayfabe then the "meaning" it has is the meaning you give it in your mind. Which is worthless.

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 03:03 PM

I don't think Destor's riegn as king of the forum has any meaning, what do you think of them apples. But basically we are in agreement that right now the Triple Crown is pretty much meaningless, and in the past its meaning has been debatable at best?

Destor

01-20-2009, 03:05 PM

yeah

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 03:07 PM

Would it be an accomplishment if someone was to win the 5 singles titles currently avaible in WWE?

Destor

01-20-2009, 03:10 PM

That would depend on how the WWE played it up. It's only relevent if people care. Like Punk beating the record for quickest triple crown. Sure it's a fin factoid for us nerds but really means fuck all. HBM's grandslam? Pretty big deal though. It's all image and perception.

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 03:11 PM

Espeically since Punk's WHC was crap, and his tag team title reign is forgetable at best.

Xero

01-20-2009, 03:12 PM

Sure it's a fin factoid for us nerds but really means fuck all. HBM's grandslam?

We're debating over fake championships. None of it, the WWE title, the WHC, the NWA title or whatever always meant "fuck all".

Destor

01-20-2009, 03:14 PM

I totally disagree but you're really changing the subject. We're talking perception here and these things mean a whole hell of a lot if you make them to.

thedamndest

01-20-2009, 03:16 PM

That's like saying the ending to Die Hard means "fuck all."

Destor

01-20-2009, 03:17 PM

exactly

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 03:18 PM

The end of Die Hard does mean fuck all.

thedamndest

01-20-2009, 03:20 PM

You take that back.

Xero

01-20-2009, 03:22 PM

Honestly, going by what you're saying, the ONLY Grand Slam champion that should be recognized from an "accomplishment" point of view is Michaels. I cannot remember the last time they even mentioned someone being a grand slam champion other than in passing once or twice.

It was done once, 13 years ago. To fans today, 13 years ago means jack shit and the only ones who really remember it are us nerds. It has one leg up on the triple crown, but that doesn't nullify the original triple crown.

Destor

01-20-2009, 03:23 PM

they mentioned it here recently for hardy. JR went through the list of most who did it. Same when RVD made the list and others.

Destor

01-20-2009, 03:24 PM

They don't even acknowledge the existance of Triple crown.

Xero

01-20-2009, 03:26 PM

Oh no?

http://www.wwe.com/superstars/halloffame/pedromorales/bio/

Career Highlights: WWE Champion, Intercontinental Champion, World Tag Team Champion, first "Triple Crown" winner in WWE history, won several regional championships in Florida and California

Destor

01-20-2009, 03:28 PM

The website is your defense? Come on Xero.

Hanso Amore

01-20-2009, 03:31 PM

It means nothing.

Triple Crown mattered when there were only 3 titles, so it was impressive.

Grand Slam was even more "elite" when a 4th title was added.

Triple crown means nothing now with all the titles, as you are just winning 3/7.

Now, Edge I think has won 6/7 titles, so if he wins the US title he with me a Septuple Crown winner, which would be cool.

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 03:31 PM

I want to correct something, if the WWE started counting US champion in the triple crown, then Bigshow would also be a triple crown with Cena and Bradshaw.

Xero

01-20-2009, 03:33 PM

The website is your defense? Come on Xero.

You can't dismiss it if it's on the official site. I just proved the existence of the Triple Crown in the "WWE Universe". I'd assume it was mentioned when Morales first won it and I'm sure it was mentioned during his induction into the Hall of Fame.

If someone can confirm the HoF bit, I've solidly confirmed the triple crown's existence. Or are you going to dismiss that as well?

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 03:37 PM

WWE.Com's acknowledgment of the Triple Crown is spotty at best.

Destor

01-20-2009, 03:39 PM

Destor

01-20-2009, 03:40 PM

You can't dismiss it if it's on the official site. I just proved the existence of the Triple Crown in the "WWE Universe". I'd assume it was mentioned when Morales first won it and I'm sure it was mentioned during his induction into the Hall of Fame.

If someone can confirm the HoF bit, I've solidly confirmed the triple crown's existence. Or are you going to dismiss that as well?HoF and I will give some small credit. Though I can almost garuntee that "Triple Crown" wasn't mentiond when he won the final belt in his collection.

Xero

01-20-2009, 03:44 PM

Shit, he went in in 1995. Thought it was 2004.

I'll still prove it, though.

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 03:45 PM

Edge hasn't won the US title?

Edge won the WCW US title and its history is connected to the WWE's version.

01-20-2009, 05:07 PM

But he does need to pick up the ECW Championship to complete his "Septuple Crown".

Hanso Amore

01-20-2009, 05:10 PM

Now that could be viewed as an achievement.

Plus he won the King of the Ring, and Mitb. A Devils Septuple Crown

Hanso Amore

01-20-2009, 05:10 PM

Edge won the WCW US title and its history is connected to the WWE's version.

Oh yeah, my bad

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 05:10 PM

Yes, Edge would need that. I think Bigshow just needs the ic title.

01-20-2009, 05:11 PM

Anyways, I've made my feelings clear on the Triple Crown/Grand Slam thing in the other thread, but to some up:

Pre Euro Title the Triple Crown meant something.

Post Euro Title the Grand Slam meant something, the Triple Crown meant less.

In today's WWE neither the Triple Crown nor Grand Slam mean shit to me personally.

I guess an argument could be made that if the guy has picked up the 3 titles from the one show at any given time then it's a pretty big achievement. But if we are arguing that both the WWE and WHC are counted and/or the World/WWE Tag Titles are included then I don't buy it.

01-20-2009, 05:11 PM

Now that could be viewed as an achievement.

Plus he won the King of the Ring, and Mitb. A Devils Septuple Crown
Then add a Rumble win and he's collected it all.

BigDaddyCool

01-20-2009, 05:14 PM

Correction, Bigshow needs to win Smackdown's tag team title, the IC, and WHC for the 7 crown.

Hanso Amore

01-20-2009, 05:24 PM

You know what, because of Added titles, retired titles, this is all irrelevant.

01-20-2009, 05:26 PM

And thus winning a "Triple Crown" in today's WWE is irrelevant...which leads nicely to the question that we are discussing.

NeanderCarl

01-20-2009, 05:58 PM

Did you guys even watch back then? I don't think they even mentiond this accomplishment a single time.

They most certainly did. They didn't use the term "Triple Crown" but when Bret Hart completed it in 1992, they brought up that he was only the second guy ever to do it, and cited Pedro Morales as the first. They mentioned it again when Diesel became the first guy to do it in under a year.

Xero

01-20-2009, 07:34 PM

I also just saw a Morales match where they mentioned the fact he was the first to hold all three titles.

I guess this comes down to whether they actually need to use the term "Triple Crown", because with that and Carl's post the idea of the triple crown was pushed. And let's face it, that's just splitting hairs.

So deal with it Destor, the Triple Crown exists, or at least did, in kayfabe and thus brings it back up to where the Grand Slam was.

Though this is all moot now, since it means even less than it did when the Grand Slam or Triple Crown were the only deal in town.

Savio

01-20-2009, 07:37 PM

does this question even need to be asked?

Hanso Amore

01-20-2009, 07:48 PM

The Triple Crown should be wiped away, and now replaced with winning all 3 brand titles.

So Punk needs WWE title, Taker, Edge and HHH need the ECW title, Kane needs the WHC, Big Show needs WHC, Jericho needs ECW, and I think that is it.

NeanderCarl

01-20-2009, 07:57 PM

WWE Champion - all brands
l
IC Champion - Raw * US Champion - SmackDown * TV Champion - ECW
lll
WWE World Tag Team Titles - Raw
lllll
WWE Women's Champion - SmackDown

That is all they need.

NeanderCarl

01-20-2009, 08:00 PM

The Triple Crown would be replaced by the Quintuple Crown.

Hanso Amore

01-20-2009, 08:05 PM

Also known as a Grand Slam

Jeritron

01-21-2009, 01:06 AM

Diminished, yes. Lost, I would say not completely.
It's all very hard to determine anyways.

It depends on what you thought it originally meant. Of course as time goes on it's going to expand. That's like asking if the 500 hr or 3000 hit club has lost meaning. Not just because the membership goes up over time naturally, but because there's a tainted era. It's a crapshoot.

So as far as current WWE title/triple crown worth goes, I'd say accomplishing it now means a bit less than before, but it still does require winning a world title. Although winning a world title may be twice as easy as it was back then, it's still winning a world title.

To me, the triple crown is stupid anyways since whether or not you win a tag team title doesn't neccesarily determine your worth as a wrestler. It just means you were half of an over tag team, or were packaged in one after you got over.
IC title is a far less exclusive club.
So it all comes down to the World title. It only really means as much as that does.
There's plenty of wrestlers who are high up in worth and accomplishment who aren't triple crown, or even world champions. Straps can be deceiving.

I still like to think it means something. Some would say title belts don't matter very much anyways since they're props that vary in meaning over eras. Being a world champion may mean less now than it did 5 years ago. However, being a world champ 10 years ago may mean more than it did 15 years ago. There'd be a solid argument for that.

So whatever. I prefer Grand Slam if anything, but it's hard to prove any meaning.