I don't understand... (ECW SPOILERS)

[Fox]

You have a built-in storyline for Christian's return in the Edge/Jeff Hardy saga currently going on over on Smackdown.

Instead of giving him a big surprise return at the Rumble or No Way Out or Mania, or even a simple Smackdown or RAW return, they have him return on the red headed stepchild of a brand: ECW. Not only that, but he needs help from Finlay and Hornswoggle to beat this brand new guy?

What a fucking waste.

[BigDaddyCool]

I'm confused

[wwe2222]

You have a built-in storyline for Christian's return in the Edge/Jeff Hardy saga currently going on over on Smackdown.

Instead of giving him a big surprise return at the Rumble or No Way Out or Mania, or even a simple Smackdown or RAW return, they have him return on the red headed stepchild of a brand: ECW. Not only that, but he needs help from Finlay and Hornswoggle to beat this brand new guy?

What a fucking waste.

agreed...absolutely horrible.

[The Optimist]

A. Built in storyline means it's not a suprise return, everyone's been calling it since before Royal Rumble.
B. Swagger's been put over Matt Hardy twice, so . . .

I'll not completely defend it. But it could be worse.

[Lock Jaw]

I concur. Horrible decision to put him in the minor leagues. Hopefully he is only there until the traditional post-Mania Draft Lottery.

Either that, or he becomes one of those ECW guys who appear on all shows like Miz and Morrison do.

[The Optimist]

I'm confused

Christian returned on ECW and called out Jack Swagger. After an okay match Finlay interfered and Christian won.

[Xero]

ROFL that's great.

One of the only things in WWE I had any real interest in and they waste it on ECW. Nice, WWE. :y:

In fact, watching his return now, they fucked up entirely. He should have had a run-in or something, not randomly pop up in that promo.

Fuck this, lol.

[Fox]

Just because they're expecting it doesn't mean you have to give it to them when they think it's coming. Everyone thought Christian would show up at the Rumble and he didn't. All you had to do was have him return on RAW the next night during, say, a segment with the WWE Champ and World Champ and Randy Orton. Jeff runs out to beat up on Edge, Matt comes in to save Edge, Christian hits the ring and cleans fucking house. That would have been awesome.

[thedamndest]

Supreme wins.

[Fox]

huh

[Fabien Barthez]

I think it's rather funny how any of you thought he was going to be spoon fed into a main event programme. A height he never achieved in the first place, and after leaving for TNA.

Putting him anywhere near the Main Event will only legitimise TNA. Having him wrestle and fued for the ECW title is a clear message about how TNA is regarded by Vince.

[thedamndest]

http://tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=87037

[Xero]

I think it's rather funny how any of you thought he was going to be spoon fed into a main event programme. A height he never achieved in the first place, and after leaving for TNA.

Putting him anywhere near the Main Event will only legitimise TNA. Having him wrestle and fued for the ECW title is a clear message about how TNA is regarded by Vince.

Pretty sure Christian WAS the plan until just before the Rumble. Why they changed it, I don't know, but I do believe he was in for a push at one point.

[thedamndest]

I said this in the ECW thread, but I'll say it here too: there isn't any need for Christian in the Hardy feud. Edge has zero involvement in it right now; they obviously want Matt vs. Jeff solo while Edge feuds with HHH or whatever. It's been an hour and 20 minutes. It's probably going to take some time before we see a TLC match. To the WWE this guy isn't the Rock or Austin. He doesn't qualify under the "huge return" plan.

[Fabien Barthez]

Pretty sure Christian WAS the plan until just before the Rumble. Why they changed it, I don't know, but I do believe he was in for a push at one point.

But was he? I mean, internet rumours said so, but it wouldn't be the first time WWE have leaked false stories to swerve folk like us.

I personally thought the writing was on the wall once Dixie Carter announced that Christian was leaving for WWE, and the way they used that on TV. And I said in a thread weeks ago that I didn't believe he was going to get a rub like that as soon as he walked in.

[Fox]

I think it's rather funny how any of you thought he was going to be spoon fed into a main event programme. A height he never achieved in the first place, and after leaving for TNA.

Putting him anywhere near the Main Event will only legitimise TNA. Having him wrestle and fued for the ECW title is a clear message about how TNA is regarded by Vince.

I just think that's a very one-sided way of looking at things. To ignore the fact that Christian accomplished things while he was gone and improved on himself is just stupid, regardless of where he went. I'm not saying promote him as "Former TNA World Champion" or to even mention where he's been for the past few years, but treat him with the respect a former World Champion deserves.

Christian is a great talent and always has been. He's very charismatic, has great mic skills, and has an awesome work rate. Placing him lower in the tier of the company only hurts the company because they are not utilizing and exposing his talents the way that they can. It works against them instead of in their benefit.

A big return for Christian not only would've gotten him majorly over, but it would've helped pique interest in the WWE product and Smackdown's main event scene. And there's nothing wrong with helping to increase interest in the product. That's the name of the game.

Christian vs. Swagger is not better than Christian involved with his old buddies, Jeff, Matt and Edge.

[screech]

I said this in the ECW thread, but I'll say it here too: there isn't any need for Christian in the Hardy feud. Edge has zero involvement in it right now; they obviously want Matt vs. Jeff solo while Edge feuds with HHH or whatever. It's been an hour and 20 minutes. It's probably going to take some time before we see a TLC match. To the WWE this guy isn't the Rock or Austin. He doesn't qualify under the "huge return" plan.

Agreed. I, like most, would love to see an Edge/Christian feud or reunion (as I've said a few times), but it doesn't need to happen right off the bat. I like him on ECW. It allows for a build rather than coming back and being thrusted into the main event (although as a Christian mark, I want him to win the big gold belt). He won't be on ECW forever, but it's a good start for him.

[Fabien Barthez]

From http://www.tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2322993 - Oct '08

Vince would bury him so hard. A guy who can't really draw, coming back after failing to find greener pastures.

Vince is probably licking his lips, waiting for the phone to ring, whilst stroking his shovel.

[Innovator]

ECW needs talent

[Hanso Amore]

I said this in the ECW thread, but I'll say it here too: there isn't any need for Christian in the Hardy feud. Edge has zero involvement in it right now; they obviously want Matt vs. Jeff solo while Edge feuds with HHH or whatever. It's been an hour and 20 minutes. It's probably going to take some time before we see a TLC match. To the WWE this guy isn't the Rock or Austin. He doesn't qualify under the "huge return" plan.

I agree with the first part.

He could have shown up on Raw.

But a return on ECW with a no name is not return of any sorts.

He is not Austin, but his return is slightly under Y2Js.

When Jeff hardy came back, it was out of nowhere, but it was a much more important return than this.

What theme did he use?

[The Optimist]

Christian with that huge ECW belt would rule.

[Hanso Amore]

His debut was nice. But could have been so much more.

The new remixed theme sucked.

But this is a decent way to make the ECW title mean something. An it will get Swagger over.

But it seems like such a waste.

[Fabien Barthez]

I just think that's a very one-sided way of looking at things. To ignore the fact that Christian accomplished things while he was gone and improved on himself is just stupid, regardless of where he went. I'm not saying promote him as "Former TNA World Champion" or to even mention where he's been for the past few years, but treat him with the respect a former World Champion deserves.

Christian is a great talent and always has been. He's very charismatic, has great mic skills, and has an awesome work rate. Placing him lower in the tier of the company only hurts the company because they are not utilizing and exposing his talents the way that they can. It works against them instead of in their benefit.

A big return for Christian not only would've gotten him majorly over, but it would've helped pique interest in the WWE product and Smackdown's main event scene. And there's nothing wrong with helping to increase interest in the product. That's the name of the game.

Christian vs. Swagger is not better than Christian involved with his old buddies, Jeff, Matt and Edge.


I have been watching Wrestling for years and years. Do you have any idea how many matches I have seen that involve Edge, Christian and the Hardys?

It won't work in the Hardy angle because he isn't a Hardy. He won't work in a feud with Edge, because they are currently running the same programme with the Hardys, and him teaming with Edge is just retarded, because Edge is not only the champion, but the best entity on WWE TV for my money. He doesn't really need to be placed in a team situation.

I think he is lucky to be replacing Matt Hardy as the big name of ECW. Seeing the Hardys against one another is a better call for a Mania fued.

[Nark Order]

But a return on ECW with a no name is not return of any sorts.

You're being ridiculous. He returned to challenge the ECW Champion. Would you rather of had him return to ECW and face a midcarder?

I think that his return should've been bigger but it is what it is. Xtian didn't exactly do himself any favors either by staying as small as he is. He knows the WWE and how they operate, he should've been bulking. I'll take this for what it is and be happy with it. At least on ECW he'll be having good matches and they'll most likely be given some times. Imagine when Bourne comes back.

[Fox]

You will pay the price for your lack of vision.

[thedamndest]

Maybe Christian's presence on ECW will pique interest in that show rather than a show that already has HHH, Jeff Hardy, Matt Hardy, Undertaker, Big Show, and Edge.

[Juan]

I'll file this thread under "Wrestling Fans Will Never Be Happy"

[Nark Order]

Like I said, I'll take it. I just added ECW to my DVR schedule so I guess his presence is helping at least a bit.

[Fox]

I'm just saying he deserved more. Why couldn't he have beaten Swagger at No Way Out in a Special Challenge match or some shit? Why ECW on Sci-Fi? It just irks me. He's better than that.

[Fabien Barthez]

You're being ridiculous. He returned to challenge the ECW Champion. Would you rather of had him return to ECW and face a midcarder?



Midcarders? on ECW?

Just remember, no matter where you are on the card for ECW, you are always before an entire 2 hour show, which at least 3x as many people will see.

[thedamndest]

I've just obtained some exclusive footage of next week when the WWE, after reading some angry smark comments, team Christian with Edge to take on the Hardyz!

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[Nark Order]

I'm just saying he deserved more. Why couldn't he have beaten Swagger at No Way Out in a Special Challenge match or some shit? Why ECW on Sci-Fi? It just irks me. He's better than that.

God, shut up. He returned, just be happy with that. Jesus. I don't know what everybody was expecting here. Was he supposed to return and beat Cena, Swagger, and Edge all in the same night and be the all powerful mega champion? McMahon has never been a fan of Christian. Him being on TV is good enough for me as he could've gotten the D'Lo Brown treatment.

[thedamndest]

Now you hate the Sci-Fi network?

[Fox]

I am not a fan of their programming, no. Their weird little promo commercials are top notch, though.

[Nark Order]

Ever thought that maybe WWE is thinking that you might watch ECW on SciFi, despite hating it, now that Christian is on it?

[Fabien Barthez]

Was he supposed to return and beat Cena, Swagger, and Edge all in the same night and be the all powerful mega champion?

Have him return on RAW the next night during, say, a segment with the WWE Champ and World Champ and Randy Orton. Jeff runs out to beat up on Edge, Matt comes in to save Edge, Christian hits the ring and cleans fucking house.

[Krimzon7]

Let's give Christian credit. He has shown that he can survive mediore (at best) booking, horrible plots and past-their-prime talent to make us even give a damn about TNA. Maybe Vinny is saying to Christian that he is looking for him to charge ECW. You guys were happy to see Matt Hardy with the silver strap, why not be excited with Christian owning the strap. Maybe we'll see a cross brand alliance with two brothers who've always wanted to be World Champs at the same time...

[Nark Order]

You all have tunnel vision with this. Really.

[screech]

Maybe Christian's presence on ECW will pique interest in that show rather than a show that already has HHH, Jeff Hardy, Matt Hardy, Undertaker, Big Show, and Edge.

It is certainly giving me a reason to watch every week.

[Juan]

I really don't see the problem with Christian debuting on ECW. WWE gets criticized constantly for blowing their load too quick on certain angles, and when they swerve the lot of you by NOT booking an angle that we've all been waiting for for months, they still get criticized. Plus, I'm pretty sure once the Draft comes around, he'll end up on either Raw or Smackdown.

[RatedGSuperstar]

I don't have too much of a problem with it, either. I'm glad that he's back on WWE TV, and in some ways I actually prefer seeing him heading up ECW at this point instead of him getting lost in the midcard shuffle on Raw or Smackdown. Let him have a run with the ECW title, build up interest in the show for a change, and see where it goes from there.

The return could've been done a little better, though. First of all the new remix of his theme bites -- where the hell is the kick ass instrumental? It would've been better to have that interrupt Swagger than a crappy remix that had me confused for a second before I saw "CHRISTIAN" on the titantron. The promo itself was fine, and the crowd actually seemed interested in ECW for a change. I don't mind the idea of a Christian/Swagger feud, or even making it a three way feud with Finlay in there, too. Let Christian carry the slack on the mic for the feud, and Swagger's bound to benefit from working more with Finlay. In the long run it'll be good for Swagger, and maybe he'll actually be prepared for another title run in June or whenever Christian gets drafted away from ECW.

At least between Christian and T.J. Wilson I have a reason to pay attention to ECW now.

[Nark Order]

Yeah, I am still failing to see how pinning the ECW Champion on his return match is a bad thing. Especially seeing as how Swagger had only lost once before that.

[Juan]

Yeah, I am still failing to see how pinning the ECW Champion on his return match is a bad thing. Especially seeing as how Swagger had only lost once before that.

Because "nobody watches ECW" and Jack Swagger is a "nobody" :roll:

but seriously, I'm tired of people being too cool for school to watch ECW. It's like some people refuse to enjoy anything that happens on ECW just because it's ECW. Get over it.

[screech]

Because "nobody watches ECW" and Jack Swagger is a "nobody" :roll:

but seriously, I'm tired of people being too cool for school to watch ECW. It's like some people refuse to enjoy anything that happens on ECW just because it's ECW. Get over it.

I agree. It's not that I'm "too cool" to watch ECW, I just keep forgetting it's on at 9 instead of 10. I know they changed that time months ago, but I always manage to miss it. Lately, though, I've been catching it more often. Like I said, this is definitely going to make me watch every week.

I will say, though, I hated Grisham's reaction. He didn't sound excited at all. Striker did a good job saving him with the awesome line: "This moment just became Instantly Classic!"

[Innovator]

ECW usually is the best WWE produced show every week

[Kane Knight]

Pretty sure Christian WAS the plan until just before the Rumble. Why they changed it, I don't know, but I do believe he was in for a push at one point.

Assuming the speculation was true, I'm pretty sure the reason they'd change it is to swerve us. Yay.

That's assuming truth, but it's not unlike WWE to take the logical progression and throw it in the trash to fool us.

Then again, Christian quit because Vince thought he was nothing more than a mid-carder. Why should this be different?

I'll file this thread under "Wrestling Fans Will Never Be Happy"

lolattemptedantrificialcontradiction.

[Nark Order]

I'll file this thread under "Wrestling Fans Will Never Be Happy"

[Juan]

lol attempted antrificial contradiction.

:?:

[Dorkchop]

Because "nobody watches ECW" and Jack Swagger is a "nobody" :roll:

but seriously, I'm tired of people being too cool for school to watch ECW. It's like some people refuse to enjoy anything that happens on ECW just because it's ECW. Get over it.

I'm only too cool for school because school is shown at midnight on Friday (technically Saturday). If it aired in Canada the same time as it does in the States I'd probably watch regularly. ECW is never too bad. Wrestling wise it's usually pretty good.

[Juan]

Well, it's different when you aren't able to watch it, but when people completely dismiss it because "WWE doesn't give us a reason to care" is when it gets ridiculous.

[Juan]

I'm not saying people HAVE to watch ECW, but don't dismiss it and downplay what happens on ECW just because you CHOOSE not to watch or because it doesn't live up to your standards.

[screech]

I'm not saying people HAVE to watch ECW, but don't dismiss it and downplay what happens on ECW just because you CHOOSE not to watch or because it doesn't live up to your standards.

Now that Christian is on, people MUST watch ECW.

[Nark Order]

:?:

KK doesn't know what he said either, I wouldn't worry about it.

[screech]

Well, it's different when you aren't able to watch it, but when people completely dismiss it because "WWE doesn't give us a reason to care" is when it gets ridiculous.

Having Mark Henry as the main guy really didn't help any. And having that damn silver belt doesn't either. It seems like everyone ignores that it's silver, too (especially WWE.com).

This probably has nothing to do with what you just said, I'm just bitching. I've always tried to tune in to ECW, but WWE doesn't seem to promote it very often, hence me missing the show quite a bit.

[Juan]

Not that it matters either way, but the belt is platinum, not silver.

Also, there are always at least 2 promos for ECW during the Raw telecast.

[KYR]

Now that Christian is on, people MUST watch ECW.

Ergo, get him on your Radio show and then people MUST listen.

[CSL]

His music blows. Glad he's finally on TV though

[screech]

Not that it matters either way, but the belt is platinum, not silver.

Also, there are always at least 2 promos for ECW during the Raw telecast.

I must always be in the bathroom during those, or I'm watching and doing something else at the same time.

[screech]

Ergo, get him on your Radio show and then people MUST listen.

We already have The Macho Man, so why not? Our ratings would be through the roof.

His music blows. Glad he's finally on TV though

I don't mind the music so much, though I would've loved the original version.

[thedamndest]

Did you buy the Ariel pants?

[Juan]

ECW just ended here and I have to say, that was a good ass match.

[Juan]

Also, the ECW roster is starting to look really solid, sans Mark Henry and the Boogeyman of course.

[thedamndest]

Maybe they should have a Loser Leaves Town match.

[KYR]

Yeah, never understood the whole "Loser Leaves Town" match.

Don't the winners leave as well? :shifty:

(Well except TNA but we don't talk about them).

[screech]

Did you buy the Ariel pants?

I'm still whoring myself out to earn the money.

[Juan]

I'm still whoring myself out to earn the money.

How much? :naughty:

[thedamndest]

The going rate is one pair of Ariel's pants.

[Juan]

:-\

[Mr. C]

What a waste. All they had to do was have Christian return on SmackDown this Friday night during a segment with Edge. That would've been awesome. Why couldn't he have beaten Edge on SmackDown?

[KYR]

Do you know Scot Delaney?

[Hornicane]

It makes sense to put him on ECW. After jumping ship he's not immediately going to get pushed into the main event picture, but he's too over to get shuffled into the midcard. The ECW title is somewhere in between, and a logical place to put him.

The return itself was weak sauce though.

[James Steele]

What a waste. All they had to do was have Christian return on SmackDown this Friday night during a segment with Edge. That would've been awesome. Why couldn't he have beaten Edge on SmackDown?

Because Edge is the WWE Champion and #1 heel on SD! going into a PPV to defend his championship and probably get ready to headline the biggest WrestleMania of all time...

[St. Jimmy]

1) WHO BOOKED THIS, FIRE THEM.
2) His music is awesome.
3) At least he's back, ffs.
4) This is the first I've ever watched Jack Swagger, minus this program with Christian - probably the last.

[Rammsteinmad]

I personally thought it was a bit lame having him return on ECW. He could have at least been on Smackdown, but, none-the-less when his music hit the crowd went fucking nuts and it sent chills down my back. I'm glad he's got the same music (though slightly remixed) coz I always thought that suited him very well.

[Rammsteinmad]

he's too over to get shuffled into the midcard.

This IS WWE you're talking about y'know.

[Hornicane]

This IS WWE you're talking about y'know.

Oh. Right. Dammit. How long before he's stalking Taker's wife? :mad:

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think it's rather funny how any of you thought he was going to be spoon fed into a main event programme. A height he never achieved in the first place, and after leaving for TNA.

Putting him anywhere near the Main Event will only legitimise TNA. Having him wrestle and fued for the ECW title is a clear message about how TNA is regarded by Vince.

I agree, to a point. I think it has more to do with Christian's previous status in the WWE than anything else. Look, the guy was not going to headline WrestleMania. Anyone that thought for a second that we were going to get a Fatal Four Way WWE Championship match between Edge, Christian, Matt Hardy and Jeff Hardy is deluding themselves. This is coming from the guy who had hopes the WWE would utilise Val Venis before his release.

Sure, the plan may have been for Christian to be behind the Jeff Hardy attacks, but that was just fucking stupid. For starters, as you could see on ECW, the fans did remember, and did pop for Christian. Bringing him back as a heel was dumb, and would have been cutting his legs out from underneath him.

With Edge vs. Triple H seemingly being the only WWE Title match on SmackDown! worth a damn (unless they do Triple H vs. Randy Orton, which leaves RAW pretty barren), that leaves Christian out of the picture entirely. So I ask you: Why bring Christian back to SmackDown! at all? Especially when a live return would have been more impactful (and it was).

Sure, you could have put Christian on RAW, but then you have to fit him in with those programs. Who exactly would he have worked with? William Regal? Would have been great, no doubt, but it is also mid-card stuff. Something with JBL could have worked, well, in the promo department. I do not want to see that wrestling match.

Without a real top face for ECW, now that Matt Hardy is back on SmackDown!, bringing Christian back as ECW's top face is completey fine, in my books. Especially since it will lead to Christian winning the ECW Title, likely at WrestleMania. It's not like Christian has a life-sentence on ECW, either. As an ECW Superstar, he can appear on all three shows, and there is a draft coming up soon. I fully expect Christian to be drafted to SmackDown!, where he can then get involved in the Edge/Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy stuff. It's not like their tag team history is just going to dry up.

[The Mackem]

I don't get it, people complain about not having any reason to watch ECW. I think they just gave a few people a reason.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The WWE is completely right to do this, in my opinion. It may not have been the absolutely most epic way to bring him back, but all those "epic" ideas start off big and then get narrow. They lack any real foresight. For everyone who says "It was so easy to bring him back to SmackDown!!1" I want to see how people would do it. How do you bring Christian back knowing:

a) He is going to get cheered to shit-house.

b) Triple H is main eventing the SmackDown! portion of the show.

c) Christian cannot main event WrestleMania. It makes no sense to bring back an upper mid-carder and suddenly pass them off as a WrestleMania headliner. There has to be some build.

It's just not a puzzle that fits easily together. If someone can do it, I'll give them rep, but it's so much easier just to do things the way the WWE is doing. And probably more beneficial. Especially when Christian becomes the ECW Champion.

[Tornado]

What Music did he use, wast it "At Last" or "If You Close Your Eyes"?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't get it, people complain about not having any reason to watch ECW. I think they just gave a few people a reason.

Between Christian, Tyson Kidd, Natalya Neidhart, Jamie Noble, Paul Burchill & Katie Lea Burchill, I am getting more and more reasons to watch. Oh, and they have the best commentary team in the entire company.

Actually, ECW is often the best WWE show of the week. I expect that trend to continue now.

[Ben Rodrigues]

[QUOTE=Noid;2432245]Oh, and they have the best commentary team in the entire company. /QUOTE]

Anyone else think when Christian came out the commentary was less than epic? Made me realise JR's ability to really give moments like that that special something.

[Tornado]

I like how Striker used the term "this moment just became instantly classic"...I don;t recall Christian ever using the Instant Classic phrase in WWE.


OMGZ, STRIKER WATCHES TNA!

[Londoner]

Wow, i knew they would fuck this up,but not this badly. :lol:

[CharismaInjection]

Why are people complaining? Christian has become the star of ECW, look what it did for Matt Hardy's career. If he went to SD, he'd be stuck between Edge, Jeff, Matt, Big Show, Undertaker, Triple H etc. and on Raw he'd have Cena, Jericho, Orton, Michaels etc.
ECW is the best place to build him up as a strong main eventer

[Dave Youell]

ECW is basically the OVW for WWE, it feeds other shows the likes of:

Mike Knox
Kofi Kingston
CM Punk
Jack Swagger
Evan Bourne

and had re-juvinated:

Miz and Morrison
Finlay
Matt Hardy
Mark Henry

Having Christian on ECW for a few months will increase his stock, if he came out on Smackdown as the one who took out Jeff, he'd effectivly be a bit part player in the story and instantly be de-pushing himself as Edge's puppet as they are not on the same level they once were

At least this way Christian can use ECW to get a buzz and get more over (remember he's never really been given a face run before for WWE) and then in the draft will probably move to Smackdown and feud with Edge, but with much more momentum

[Londoner]

ECW is basically the OVW for WWE, it feeds other shows the likes of:

Mike Knox
Kofi Kingston
CM Punk
Jack Swagger
Evan Bourne

and had re-juvinated:

Miz and Morrison
Finlay
Matt Hardy
Mark Henry

Having Christian on ECW for a few months will increase his stock, if he came out on Smackdown as the one who took out Jeff, he'd effectivly be a bit part player in the story and instantly be de-pushing himself as Edge's puppet as they are not on the same level they once were

At least this way Christian can use ECW to get a buzz and get more over (remember he's never really been given a face run before for WWE) and then in the draft will probably move to Smackdown and feud with Edge, but with much more momentum

Fair point.

[Kane Knight]

:?:

lolattemptedantrificialcontradiction.

[Mr. Nerfect]

KK, it is so sad when someone asks you what you're trying to do, and then you do the same thing again. My mother used to do that. Just because you have tits doesn't make you my mother.

Dave is right, by the way. Perfectly spot-on. This is just a way to build Christian, and introduce him as an effective face character before moving him to one of the bigger brands. He'll also get a "World Title" reign out of it, I bet.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Anyone else think when Christian came out the commentary was less than epic? Made me realise JR's ability to really give moments like that that special something.

Todd Grisham is still hot and cold. He's improved to the point where he is now my favourite play-by-play guy in the WWE, but he could have lended the moment more gravity. I do have to say that I respect The Grish for not trying to be exactly like JR or Michael Cole, though. He needs to find his own way to voice surprise and lend a moment gravitas.

Grish has a got wit on him. Maybe he could just act like he is going to quit on the spot, because he cannot handle the sheer awesomeness of a moment? Something like that could become a shtick associated with the man. I think Striker handled it well enough.

I must say, Jim Ross has lost his own touch, though. Remember Chris Jericho's return. JR lended nothing to the moment, and actually dragged it down by treating it like it was so mundane. Jerry Lawler almost ruined it before it began.

[Fabien Barthez]

I like most of your posts Kane Knight, but this is one of those occasions where you unanimously look like a total wanker.

Add to the discussions, don't just post this pontificating shit. It adds nothing to the chat and reinforces the pre-empted notion most people have that you are a self-rightous, stuck up anti-social prick.

125,000 posts, and you can still act like a total fucking asshole. For a smart guy, you learn slowly.

[Kane Knight]

ECW is basically the OVW for WWE, it feeds other shows the likes of:

Mike Knox
Kofi Kingston
CM Punk
Jack Swagger
Evan Bourne

and had re-juvinated:

Miz and Morrison
Finlay
Matt Hardy
Mark Henry

Having Christian on ECW for a few months will increase his stock, if he came out on Smackdown as the one who took out Jeff, he'd effectivly be a bit part player in the story and instantly be de-pushing himself as Edge's puppet as they are not on the same level they once were

At least this way Christian can use ECW to get a buzz and get more over (remember he's never really been given a face run before for WWE) and then in the draft will probably move to Smackdown and feud with Edge, but with much more momentum

OVW? That's nice, but it doesn't build up Christian. Similarly, you take the lowest watched show in WWE, and what momentum does it really give Christian?

[Fabien Barthez]

OVW? That's nice, but it doesn't build up Christian. Similarly, you take the lowest watched show in WWE, and what momentum does it really give Christian?

Well, actually it does. You see, I am relatively sure that the plan is to add C to ECW to boost the rating, but as a result of being the top guy on the show, he will get more mic time than if he was mid card on either of the other 2. Plus, he will probably get a 10 minute match every week.

Did you see Punk/Regal on Raw? If you did, I rest my case.

[Kane Knight]

I like most of your posts Kane Knight, but this is one of those occasions where you unanimously look like a total wanker.

Add to the discussions, don't just post this pontificating shit. It adds nothing to the chat and reinforces the pre-empted notion most people have that you are a self-rightous, stuck up anti-social prick.

125,000 posts, and you can still act like a total fucking asshole. For a smart guy, you learn slowly.

Mmmm...Condescension. That's nice.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be learning, because none of what you're saying is actually new to me. But I'm curious. Enlighten me as to what lessons I should have learned by a given post count. Probably end up being closer to pontification than your own application of the word. Not that you're being hypocritical, mind, preaching to me what I should do and should know....

[XL]

When I first read this my reaction was WTF. But thinking about it ECW could easily become The Christian Show. Which gets a :y: from me.

Now I need to find a video from last night.

[Kane Knight]

Well, actually it does. You see, I am relatively sure that the plan is to add C to ECW to boost the rating, but as a result of being the top guy on the show, he will get more mic time than if he was mid card on either of the other 2. Plus, he will probably get a 10 minute match every week.

Did you see Punk/Regal on Raw? If you did, I rest my case.

Of course hell get more mic time. There's like ten people. It still goes back to "who cares?" Christian on ECW won't boost the rating. Christian speaking a lot on a show with less than a sixth of the market of one of the other WWE shows doesn't equate to anything effective, unless his only problem is he can't speak and needs time to practice before the big leagues.

A feud with Jeff would likely have elevated him better than that.

Any lack of mobility in WWE is internal, not because of placement on the show. Christian himself, for example, was mad over before he quit, but Vince saw him as a midcarder. Oops. Matt Hardy? Could have been easily retooled on Raw or Smackdown. Even now, he's jealous of his brother, who has real gold. Do they even talk about Kane's run? I haven't noticed, but....

Vince was going to push CM Punk no matter where he was, especially based on circumstances. Cena got over on his own, even with the big names he was competing aginst for TV time. Miz and Morrison are both cases of "would be pushed regardless," as well.

More importantly, the people it "brought us" are yet to be proven, save for Punk. The list of people ECW has "fed" other shows looks like, whether you like the guys or not, a veritable who's who of "future endeavors." And I like Kofi, and I hope he doesn't get fired, but I'm pretty sure he's either going to be a midcarder or FEd in the next year or so. Knox will probably be around for a while, but in the generic hoss role he could have managed on Raw or Smackdown to begin with, and...Well, with Bourne, my feelings are about the same as Coffee.

[Fabien Barthez]

Mmmm...Condescension. That's nice.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be learning, because none of what you're saying is actually new to me. But I'm curious. Enlighten me as to what lessons I should have learned by a given post count. Probably end up being closer to pontification than your own application of the word. Not that you're being hypocritical, mind, preaching to me what I should do and should know....

I wasn't being condescending, I was asking you to stop being condescending. I am not the person who responded to somebody innocently asking what your intentionally condescending innital comment meant..... With the same fucking condescending comment! That takes condescension to a new level, and certainly not one I'm going to.

That was a dick move. Is it hypercritical of me to point out when you are just not being nice to others, unprovoked? People line up to call you a cunt, and you go for the guy who isn't? Then I'm a happy hypercrite

There was nothing actually self-righteous or pontificating from my comments to you, since I knew you would understand what my words mean, and you never questioned them for me to repeat them with no explaination.

WHat should you have learned? How to interract with people, without them walking away and thinking 'what a superiority complex-riddled cock'.

[Fabien Barthez]

Of course hell get more mic time. There's like ten people. It still goes back to "who cares?" Christian on ECW won't boost the rating. Christian speaking a lot on a show with less than a sixth of the market of one of the other WWE shows doesn't equate to anything effective, unless his only problem is he can't speak and needs time to practice before the big leagues.

A feud with Jeff would likely have elevated him better than that.

Any lack of mobility in WWE is internal, not because of placement on the show. Christian himself, for example, was mad over before he quit, but Vince saw him as a midcarder. Oops. Matt Hardy? Could have been easily retooled on Raw or Smackdown. Even now, he's jealous of his brother, who has real gold. Do they even talk about Kane's run? I haven't noticed, but....

Vince was going to push CM Punk no matter where he was, especially based on circumstances. Cena got over on his own, even with the big names he was competing aginst for TV time. Miz and Morrison are both cases of "would be pushed regardless," as well.

More importantly, the people it "brought us" are yet to be proven, save for Punk. The list of people ECW has "fed" other shows looks like, whether you like the guys or not, a veritable who's who of "future endeavors." And I like Kofi, and I hope he doesn't get fired, but I'm pretty sure he's either going to be a midcarder or FEd in the next year or so. Knox will probably be around for a while, but in the generic hoss role he could have managed on Raw or Smackdown to begin with, and...Well, with Bourne, my feelings are about the same as Coffee.

So, what is your conclusive point? ECW should be cancelled, so there are less wrestlers on the overall roster, or less TV time per wrestler every week? Or that ECW should be exclusively for wrestlers who are very much bottom rung? Should there be no attempt to improve the ratings of the show and try to expand the brand to equivilate it to the other 2 eventualy? Is that how you would run your business?

And does ECW really only get 1/6th of Raws viewing numbers?

Fact is, some time as ECW champ, and Matt Hardy is on his way to one of the biggest singles fueds in a long time, that will culminate in a big match at Wrestlemania. He was a good guy to give the rub to the ECW juniors, and he got to work alot more promos, and have longer matches.

No matter what anyone says, C isn't big enough in the world of wrestling, to be in a fued with Edge or Jeff Hardy. Frankly, neither is Matt Hardy, but being brothers is probably his saving grace, and if he looks good in this programme, will raise his stock dramatically.

I don't think there is a TV show on mainstream TV that's main intention isn't to boost ratings. You are almost saying that it is bad business for them to do this.

And fuck Christian's push. You want a push in WWE, you should stay in WWE. Going to TNA is not the most productive way to get over with Vince.

[BigDaddyCool]

Christian returned on ECW and called out Jack Swagger. After an okay match Finlay interfered and Christian won.

Oh no, I saw the match. I was confused because I didn't see any of Raw, and I flip on ECW and see Christian v Swagger, and I was confused because I didn't know Christian redebuted or anything. And I felt bad because I was certain he was jobbing to Swagger, then I heard Finlay was announcing and I was sure Christian is jobbing, or getting an assist from Finlay.

[RatedGSuperstar]

When I first read this my reaction was WTF. But thinking about it ECW could easily become The Christian Show. Which gets a :y: from me.

Now I need to find a video from last night.

For those that missed it:

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[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I see no problem with Christian on ECW...and tough shit to the people that have a problem with it. Putting a semi-established guy on ECW is a very good thing. If he gets way over, I have no doubt they will draft him elsewhere anyway. Plus, I'd bet that he makes a few appearances here and there on the other shows. Great move.</font>

[Anybody Thrilla]

Between Christian, Tyson Kidd, Natalya Neidhart, Jamie Noble, Paul Burchill & Katie Lea Burchill, I am getting more and more reasons to watch. Oh, and they have the best commentary team in the entire company.

Actually, ECW is often the best WWE show of the week. I expect that trend to continue now.

Don't forget Miz and Morrison (yes, they are still ECW superstars) and Even DJ Gabriel and Alicia Foz have been fun to watch. ECW is shaping up quite nicely now.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Oh yeah, and there was an Evan Bourne return video last night too.

[Nark Order]

Christian vs Evan Bourne= A change of pants.

[Fabien Barthez]

The only actual downside I can think of for this, is that he will probably wind up in an ECW title match at Mania, and not in the MitB match, which is where he should be booked really.

[Londoner]

That's the first time i've seen the christian return, looks decent,imo.

[Londoner]

The only actual downside I can think of for this, is that he will probably wind up in an ECW title match at Mania, and not in the MitB match, which is where he should be booked really.

He can always be in the MITB next year, no need to rush things.

[Londoner]

Btw, how good would a future cm punk v christian feud,if booked right be?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Wow, i knew they would fuck this up,but not this badly. :lol:

That's the first time i've seen the christian return, looks decent,imo.

I hope we all learned something from this, ladies and gentlemen. Watch first. Criticize second.

[XL]

Yeah, having him win MitB would be a great way to step up a gear in bringing him up to true Main Event status - if WWE have that intention.

I think it's a good move on their part to put him on ECW. They've always tried to put an established guy on the show so that he can bring the younger guys through. They did it with Big Show, Finlay, Matt Hardy and that was the intention with Benoit.

The guys in ECW can only benefit from seeing Christian in action whether it be on the mic or in the ring. There's plenty of time to elevate him.

[Londoner]

I hope we all learned something from this, ladies and gentlemen. Watch first. Criticize second.

:D

[Anybody Thrilla]

Yeah, having him win MitB would be a great way to step up a gear in bringing him up to true Main Event status - if WWE have that intention.

I think it's a good move on their part to put him on ECW. They've always tried to put an established guy on the show so that he can bring the younger guys through. They did it with Big Show, Finlay, Matt Hardy and that was the intention with Benoit.

The guys in ECW can only benefit from seeing Christian in action whether it be on the mic or in the ring. There's plenty of time to elevate him.

Don't forget Mark Henry.

[Steveviscious89]

It seemed to be Close your Eyes only with a male vocal rather than a female. Sounds better than the old one I think.

Before I go on, I would urge wrestling fans in general to consult Proverbs 18:2 before they completely kill the business all by themselves.

As I recall, Christian was not really in the main event upon leaving TNA. He was at one time but not then. Really, the way they brought him back should speak for itself.

[Nark Order]

NO, DAMNIT!!! IT WASN'T ENOUGH. ON HIS RETURN HE SHOULD'VE PINNED EVERY WWE SUPERSTAR AT THE SAME TIME AND THEN HE SHOULD CLIMBED ON THE ROOF OF THE BUILDING AND PINNED THE ARENA TOO! THEN AFTERWARDS EVERYONE SHOULD'VE LINED UP IN FRONT OF HIM, SAID "YOU'RE BETTER THAN ME", AND THEN SUCKED HIS DICK ONE BY ONE!!! GARRRRRRR!

[wwe2222]

It seemed to be Close your Eyes only with a male vocal rather than a female. Sounds better than the old one I think.

Before I go on, I would urge wrestling fans in general to consult Proverbs 18:2 before they completely kill the business all by themselves.

As I recall, Christian was not really in the main event upon leaving TNA. He was at one time but not then. Really, the way they brought him back should speak for itself.

the song is better...but the older intro for his song was better.

[RatedGSuperstar]

Bring back the instrumental intro, take out the whiny guy yelling "GO!" But maybe I'm just starting to hate the theme because they played it like three or four times on a one hour show.

[Volare]

I thought Swagger worked well with Christain in their match.

[RGWhat316]

And fuck Christian's push. You want a push in WWE, you should stay in WWE. Going to TNA is not the most productive way to get over with Vince.

Someone finally said it. I fully didn't expect Christian to be thrown right into a high profile storyline right away. He still left WWE to go to the so-called competition, and now has come crawling back. I'm glad he's back of course, but with Vince's way of thinking, hes not gonna be "oh you just main evented TNA, here you can main event here!" That is not Vince's way of thinking, since he wants to essentially make Christian pay for going to TNA in the first place but not putting him on one of the major shows right away.

[Choviko Man]

I watched ecw when 3 girl dances in small cloth. i thinks the ecw champion jackie iss whin in a little boys. christian cages come and takes him to the old school.

[Dorkchop]

I'd rather Christian be on Raw or Smackdown, but his return was fine. It's not like he came back in a dark match and beat Kizarny. He came back, cut a promo on the ECW champ, looked solid in the ring, and pinned the ECW champ in the main event of the show. I'd call that a decent return for him.

[Haze]

i thinks the ecw champion jackie iss whin in a little boys.

Translation please..:wtf:

[Choviko Man]

I tells you over there that a ecw champion jackie acting likes a tiny kid.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Mmmm...Condescension. That's nice.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be learning, because none of what you're saying is actually new to me. But I'm curious. Enlighten me as to what lessons I should have learned by a given post count. Probably end up being closer to pontification than your own application of the word. Not that you're being hypocritical, mind, preaching to me what I should do and should know....

KK, you cannot play victim to condescension. You just cannot do it.

Also, you are just wrong about Christian being on ECW. It is a very, very good move, for all concerned. Putting Christian on SmackDown! as a heel is a perfect way to completely cut any return momentum he had out from under him.

[Mr. C]

It makes no sense to put Christian in ECW. Why bring Christian back to SmackDown? A match with Edge would’ve elevated him better than Christian vs. Jack Swagger.

[Nark Order]

Yes, but you're not getting it Rated R Classic. Vince is not going to do that with Wrestlemania right around the corner. Christian being on Smackdown would only complicate stuff going into mania and eventually he'd get lossed in the smackdown shuffle and have mid to low card fueds. On ECW he'll be in the main event assumingly always. When he's ready and established as a threat in WWE then they'll bring him back up.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'd like to say that Jack Swagger vs. Christian was a good match, and that Swagger played his role well. Christian also looked good competing as a face in a WWE ring. I'm thinking we may see Christian do a commentary spot or even play special guest referee at No Way Out.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It makes no sense to put Christian in ECW. Why bring Christian back to SmackDown? A match with Edge would’ve elevated him better than Christian vs. Jack Swagger.

Edge is WWE Champion. Triple H is being set-up as his WrestleMania opponent. It makes no sense to randomly insert Christian in there. That's like me asking Rob Van Dam return and be given the World Heavyweight Title spot over Randy Orton.

Before he left, Christian was an upper mid-carder. Should he have been pushed? Yes, but he left before that could happen. Resuming from where he left off, Christian would be in line for a match with Umaga on SmackDown!, at best. I'd much rather see Christian win the ECW Championship than just beat Umaga, to be honest.

[IC Champion]

Wow, what a disappointment. Another case of great booking in the WWE.

[Ben Kenobi]

Before he left, Christian was an upper mid-carder. Should he have been pushed? Yes, but he left before that could happen. Resuming from where he left off, Christian would be in line for a match with Umaga on SmackDown!, at best. I'd much rather see Christian win the ECW Championship than just beat Umaga, to be honest.

I agree.

I'm fine with the current situation, I'm curious to see where Christian will stand after WM25.

[hb2k]

All this anticipation and they put him out there on ECW? With Jack Swanker? WHY?

[Nark Order]

All this anticipation and they put him out there on ECW? With Jack Swanker? WHY?

Read the thread you jackass and then maybe you'll get some enlightenment.

[Jeritron]

This shit is classic. People acted the same way about Jericho last year. Sure, he got a big debut, but everyone complained about his return for a while. Then he went on to have the best fued in ages and win the title, and suddenly nobody said he was sabotaged anymore. Probably because it didn't happen to begin with and everyone flips out over nothing.

So he didn't debut and get thrust into what everyone fantasy booked. Big deal. It's obvious that the Matt vs Jeff storyline is bound for Mania, and Edge hasn't and will not be involved.
He'll likely be defending the title in the main event, against HHH. This gives Christian ZERO involvement in the storyline at this point. There's nothing to do with him on Raw, since he wouldn't be there for long anyhow.

So, there is absolutely no reason that Christian won't be involved in a Hardys and Edge storyline AFTER Mania. It will probably happen. They need Edge for other things, and they realize a Matt v Jeff match is a draw in it's own right. Why rush all four parties into a payoff match when there are other options available first?
Have some patience.

Christian will be fine, and he'll be involved in some capacity with those guys down the line. At this point, given their current plans with Matt Jeff and Edge, they could have either a) waited until after Wrestlemania to debut him or b) taken the current course of action and gotten him involved in wrestlemania, while giving him some warmup.

I'll take b.

[Jeritron]

I'm actually excited with the swerve. It's nice to see things not go according to an expected formula. I was happy with the swerve when Matt attacked Jeff, and I'm happy now.
Keep in mind, Matt wasn't behind the attacks. That's still yet to be determined.

Another thing. They probably realize Christian will be cheered for a while at first. Add that into the pile of reasons from the other post as to why they probably went this route.


I would MUCH rather see Christian vs ____ for the ECW title, Edge vs HHH, and Matt vs Jeff at Mania...and then see an Edge/Christian/Jeff/Matt fued slowly booked over the summer.
Perhaps Christian will win the ECW strap and it will become a 2 title affair? Perhaps he'll just be booked as a strong singles star and none of that fantasy fued will happen for months?
Who knows? That's the way I like it. I like storylines being suprising and unpredictable. As long as they're good, and everyone handled well. So far, it's all good to me.

[Jeritron]

Also, I will be watching ECW every week now.

[Optimus Bone 69]

Well it made me watch ECW for the first time in over a year, and anyway no matter what Christian does or how well he gets over i just cant see him ever getting the WHC or the WWE belt
its a sad state of affairs :nono:

[Jeritron]

More people watch ECW than TNA, so even if they "misuse him" by putting him on ECW, he'll still be being paid more money to wrestle in front of larger audiences and with more success.
Also, he'll be a top name and champion on ECW. More than he could say over in TNA (other than his first few months)

But I'm pretty much sure he'll be elevated after Mania, or at some point down the line unless he's some kind of lockeroom diva.

[Shadow]

Its really a case of Vince listening to rumors, realized everyone knew what was up, and did a total and compleat 11th hour replacement. No matter what we think, Vince reads the dirt sheets and probably has trolls on message boards. He might not cater to internet smarks, but he sure enjoys pissing us off.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

Oh well, shame I won't be seeing him in action.

I haven't watched ECW or Smackdown for a long time, and I doubt this will change anything.

Finlay and Swagger seem like enough of a negative, to outweigh the positive of Christian's arrival.

[Nark Order]

Matt Hardy is on Smackdown, Jabba.

[Jeritron]

I think we have to keep in mind the perspective of things. Christian's a big fish to us. He's one of our favorites so we want him to get a huge return. But the fact of the matter is, he was uppermidcard in WWE and he was never a huge name. He was solid and a star, but he was never WWE champ and he isn't impacting the main event.

It's a bit unfair to expect him to be interrupting PPV main events, as if he's a top name returning after 3 years. He got a return similar to Jeff Hardy in 06. I think it's a fair shake. Watching it, it seemed fair enough. He's taking Matt Hardy's place on ECW for now, and that's about right.
They're viewing things from a mark standpoint, not a smark standpoint. This is WWE version of Christian returning after 3 years. It's not "fresh out of TNA" Christian. When you step back and judge things fairly, it's a good spot.

[Jeritron]

They're also not going to hype him into something he hasn't been as of yet in WWE, just because he was for a stint in the small pond of TNA.
And that's not an attempt to bury TNA, it's an attempt to keep their product consistent. Christian was a huge deal in TNA before Angle and Foley showed up. That was because he was the top name in a very shallow pool of stardom.
WWE can't just honor him as a main eventer for his accomplishments there, when he was never that level in WWE.

By that standard, a returning Jeff Jarret would get a giant PPV return from WWE, or a first-time appearance of AJ Styles would be treated like the return of Jericho. WWE has to do things as WWE, and can't just cater to the very few people who watch both shows, by putting over TNA accomplishments. Even if it's in a roundabout way.
It's not like WCW incomers where Jericho and Big Show were treated as equals. That was a boom period, and other promotions shared equal amounts of followers for a time. It's a different environment today, and WWE reacts accordingly.

[XL]

Jeriton makes a good point. WWE have never acknowledged TNA or what happens there before, why would they now? They could have pushed Monty Brown and Chris Harris as big stars crossing over, instead they changed their names and treated them like total newbs to the business.

Same with Jeff's return - as Jeri mentions.

Bottom line is, of the 3 friends I've told about this at least 2 of them will be tuning in to see Christian's return/future activities.

[Jeritron]

Things will be fine. If he performs on the level he can and always has, he will continue to rise up. Until then, this is a great way to help the brand and reintroduce him.

I mean, what are they supposed to do REWARD him with a spot he never before held for going to TNA? I don't view it as a punishment, just a fair deal.

Also, I don't know why people are so final about everyhing. "What a waste". What kind of waste? He's under contract. He'll be in WWE for some time. I have no doubts the fued we all hope for will eventually happen. Not at Mania, but eventually. No need to fret. He can be entertaining in other capacities until then.

[Juan]

I agree with Jeritron.

[screech]

I agree with Jeritron.

[Jeritron]

One final point. WWE isn't stupid. They're not wasting anything. Especially not from a business standpoint.
Edge vs Jeff vs Matt vs Christian in a Ladder Match at Wrestlemania would be great..but guess what? It'd be great no matter what PPV it is on. They know this. They know everyone's going to buy Wrestlemania anyways. They have more than enough big matches lined up to draw with, let alone the name brand drawing power of the event.

A Christian/Edge/Jeff/Matt ladder match would be much wiser to include on the card for a random PPV event like Judgement Day, Great American Bash or Unforgiven. Or how about No Mercy? It's the 10 year anniversary of their original ladder match. The more you think about it, the more it makes sense that it isn't on mania.

Why would they "waste" it at Mania from a business point of view? They can offer the ladder match marks money in the bank anyways.
They saw a window here to get more bang for their buck and they did it. Now they get 3 big matches out of these guys on the Mania card, instead of one. One will be in the WWE title match, the other in the ECW title match, and the last two will face eachother in an epic Brother vs Brother match.

WWE is booking this smarter than anyone on here has. At the very least, why don't you wait and see where it all goes.

Nothing's set in stone. All four guys are under contract and the WWE will no doubt exploit this avenue somewhere down the line. They're hardly wasting things. If anything, they're doing the opposite.

Putting all four guys in the same main event would waste some things.
It'd waste Christian's face return program.
It'd waste the one on one Jeff vs Matt storyline, and big Mania match (a la Bret and Owen)
It'd waste HHH vs Edge, which fans have been wanting for ages. That's a great Mania matchup.

Not pouncing on it wastes, what? Nothing because they can do it later, where those things they can only do now. Expecting him to get the Jericho treatment is illogical. His debut was fine.

[Theo Dious]

Here is why I'm confused.

Chris Jericho returns immediately to the main event: whining and bitching on TPWW.

Christian returns to a sort of midcard main event: whining and bitching on TPWW.

Chris Jericho's return takes place in a predictable and long-foreseen way: whining and bitching on TPWW.

Christian's return takes place in a less pridictable way instead of the predictable and long-foreseen way: whining and bitching on TPWW.


Hmm.

[RGWhat316]

There does seem to be a usual pattern here. I, myself was a little annoyed at how quick Jericho got dropkicked out of the main event after just one match, but other than that he has done just fine for himself, and I have been satisfied.

I personally love the swerve. No it's not what people were expecting, but if Christian had been behind the Jeff Hardy attacks, then everyone would have said it was too predictable. What's the point of watching when you know what is going to happen? Maybe its not the greatest swerve, but it's definitely not what people were expecting, so I respect WWE for that.

[Jeritron]

It always happens. Nothings ever good enough for people on here. Jericho returns, Christian returns, CM Punk wins the title, Jeff wins the title, Jericho wins the tile, HHH goes to Smackdown, etc etc etc

Even when the greatest wishes of this community come true, they are picked apart and the complaints double.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Its really a case of Vince listening to rumors, realized everyone knew what was up, and did a total and compleat 11th hour replacement. No matter what we think, Vince reads the dirt sheets and probably has trolls on message boards. He might not cater to internet smarks, but he sure enjoys pissing us off.

That's actually one of Howard Finkel's jobs, I think. He goes around to wrestling websites, and looks at what people are expecting, and what people think should happen, and reports back.

I also don't think the rumours have as much to do with this as people say. It was just not logical to insert Christian into the major SmackDown! storylines. I mean, really, where would he go? Edge is pretty much needed to face Triple H for the WWE Title, so that they have a main event worth ordering the PPV for. Matt Hardy and Jeff Hardy's program makes more sense than doing Jeff Hardy vs. Christian right now, because Christian is fresh off returning, and is as over as rover. Why fight against that? If they did do it, then it leaves Matt Hardy with nothing interesting to do.

And who else was going to face Jack Swagger for the ECW Title? Another match with Finlay? A match against Tommy Dreamer? I like both Finlay and Dreamer, but neither guy is exactly a fresh match for Swagger. Christian provides some intrigue into the ECW situation.

This a perfect way to fit Edge, Christian, Triple H, Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, Jack Swagger, the WWE Title and the ECW Title into the WrestleMania XXV plans. I think it's a far more logical decision than people are giving it credit for.

[Jeritron]

What I said

[Mr. Nerfect]

Jeritron is very correct, by the way. People need to listen to him more. He is exactly right about what the WWE intends to do, and what they are doing. Christian is not going to disappear, nor is his history with Edge and The Hardys. Why waste that at WrestleMania in a rushed program that leaves the rest of the card pretty dry?

I will say this about Chris Jericho's return, though: While I thought people were far too critical of it, I do think that the timing of Jericho's return to RAW left him out in the dark. He debuted just before Armageddon, which was when the WWE were setting their WrestleMania plans into motion. They did not involve Chris Jericho. As a result, he was just sort of playing around in RAW's main event with whoever was spare, without really making a major difference to anything.

I would not want that for Christian. Or anything like that for Christian. That is what he'd get if he went to SmackDown! or RAW, I can guarantee it. Jericho's return was fine from a promo quality and in-ring quality (when he did eventually get in the ring), but it just lacked true impact because we knew he wasn't going to be winning the WWE Title from Randy Orton.

Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho for the WWE Championship still should have headlined WrestleMania XXIV, in my opinion, but that's certainly not what we got. We got Jericho used as an extra in the Money in the Bank Ladder Match (I was grateful that he was one of the last two guys fighting for the briefcase, though) as Intercontinental Champion. While I am happy that Jericho's mediocre treatment off returning led to his character make-over, and making him one of the most interesting characters in the WWE for some time, Christian shouldn't have to re-invent himself like that.

I think the WWE learned a lot from Chris Jericho, and aren't just going to put Christian smack in the middle of everything, and leave him to be forgotten.

[Mr. Nerfect]

What I said

I know, I agree with you completely in this thread.

[Jeritron]

I know I meant, "that's what I said."

How awesome is the ECW roster now though? The return of Evan Bourne is great news. I hope he gets a MITB slot, and they let him go nuts out there.
I'm glad he's returning so soon, because my biggest fear would be that he lost momentum. I think it won't take long for the crowd to get back into him.

[thedamndest]

Every time I see this thread I start thinking of this:

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"WHAT DON'T YOU FUCKING UNDERSTAND?"

[Jeritron]

This is actually my new favorite thread title. It takes the place of "I don't care for Swagger" for the most unintentionally funny thread of the moment

[Mr. Nerfect]

I know I meant, "that's what I said."

How awesome is the ECW roster now though? The return of Evan Bourne is great news. I hope he gets a MITB slot, and they let him go nuts out there.
I'm glad he's returning so soon, because my biggest fear would be that he lost momentum. I think it won't take long for the crowd to get back into him.

I'm starting to think that the roster is a little too stacked. But that's OK, I'm sure we'll get the draft cleaning things up after WrestleMania. It'll probably be time for Finlay, Jack Swagger and Christian to move on by that point. But I am so looking forward to some of the matches Evan Bourne can have on ECW:

Jack Swagger vs. Evan Bourne, Christian vs. Evan Bourne, Paul Burchill vs. Evan Bourne, Jamie fucking Noble vs. Evan Bourne, John Morrison vs. Evan Bourne, etc.

I'm pretty damn certain Bourne is going to make it into Money in the Bank. I doubt he'll win the match, but it'll be good showcasing time.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm starting to think that if they could make ECW a two-hour show. It'd probably be too much for the WWE to handle, but I think they've got the talent there to get it done, and for it to still be the best piece of WWE programming in the WWE week.

[thedamndest]

I will say that I preferred the non-remixed theme though. I would guess they changed it A) to sell a new CD B) because the TNA song also had a female singer C) just because he's coming back, why not. In that order.

[Jeritron]

You lose me when you do things like throwing Paul Burchill in the mix with it being "stacked"

It's a strong roster with some great wrestlers. I wouldn't say it's anything close to too stacked though. They would need a handful of established main eventers for that to happen.

I do share your enthusiasm for the show at this current moment though.

[Mr. Nerfect]

You lose me when you do things like throwing Paul Burchill in the mix with it being "stacked"

It's a strong roster with some great wrestlers. I wouldn't say it's anything close to too stacked though. They would need a handful of established main eventers for that to happen.

I do share your enthusiasm for the show at this current moment though.

I know Burchill isn't a main event talent, or anything, but I wasn't referring to the tiers of wrestlers it represents. I mean that if you take a look at who exactly is on the roster, there is so much potential there that it almost makes me wish for a two-hour show. Burchill and Noble could wrestle for twenty minutes alone, for all I care.

[thedamndest]

It's got the right mix of new-comers and veterans now, and only being and hour show they usually don't bullshit you with backstage shit or fifteen minutes of Behind Enemy Lines Colombia promos. It's definitely the best use of WWE time for the week.

[screech]

I would cream my pants if they did a Christian/Edge/Jeff/Matt ladder match at the Bash because I am going to be there. It would be more epic than Shelly Martinez selling her pants on eBay.

[Jeritron]

They don't have the potential for a two hour show. Christian helps, but after him you have Swagger and Finlay.
Bourne and Miz/Morrison are exciting, but they're just midcarders being groomed for Raw.

Raw and Smackdown have far deeper rosters, and even they sometimes have a hard time producing a 2 hour show. Just in the past year they've both improved a lot, but any roster of Raw or Smackdown from the past 7 years has been deeper than ECW's is now.

A 2 hour ECW would not be good. There's only one or two main event stars, if that, and a couple of solid midcard potential.
It's a great 1 hour show, and it could be getting greater, but...yea.

I think if they threw like 2 or 3 more legit main eventers and an uppermidcard star on the show, then maybe it'd be a stronger argument, but as of right now I see none.

[Jeritron]

Personally I'd like to see them combine Raw and Smackdown somewhere down the line, cut a lot of fat (Mark Henry's and Kozlovs) and force a lot of retirements (JBL, Taker).

Then they could send some of the top guys that would be lost in the shuffle, like Rey, Jeff and Jericho to ECW, and make that two hours. Really elevate the belt and main event scene there, while breeding young guys.

It's not going to happen though

[Juan]

The current ECW roster is probably the best its ever been at the moment. Mark Henry sticks out like an sore thumb though, but I guess it's fine if they use his credibility to put over the young guns.

[Hornicane]

I will say that I preferred the non-remixed theme though. I would guess they changed it A) to sell a new CD B) because the TNA song also had a female singer C) just because he's coming back, why not. In that order.

Agreed. He didn't even use the original version for all that long before he left, I think.

[screech]

Personally I'd like to see them combine Raw and Smackdown somewhere down the line, cut a lot of fat (Mark Henry's and Kozlovs) and force a lot of retirements (JBL, Taker).

Then they could send some of the top guys that would be lost in the shuffle, like the Punks and Jerichos to ECW, and make that two hours. Really elevate the belt and main event scene there, while breeding young guys.

It's not going to happen though

That would actually be really awesome if it would ever happen. It would help a lot with the perceived lack of depth on the rosters (RAW and SD!), and would help get ECW to be taken seriously by everyone.

And they could *gasp* make the ECW belt gold. And get rid of the Divas title. And half the Divas.

I can dream, I guess...

[Jeritron]

I actually looked at a list of all the talent, and thought about it. Providing guys like Kane and JBL retire anytime soon, and guys like Taker and HBM retire from full-time activity, it would really make a lot of sense.

[Heyman]

VERY bad decision on the WWE's part here in my opinion.

Hopefully, the WWE won't deliberately mis-use Christian over some childish grudge (as they did with D'Lo Brown).

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Just saying that 90% of you will never be happy. Just saying.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm surprised you are against Christian being on ECW right now, Mr. Hindu. Normally you and I see pretty level on these sort of matters.

[Mr. Nerfect]

They don't have the potential for a two hour show. Christian helps, but after him you have Swagger and Finlay.
Bourne and Miz/Morrison are exciting, but they're just midcarders being groomed for Raw.

Raw and Smackdown have far deeper rosters, and even they sometimes have a hard time producing a 2 hour show. Just in the past year they've both improved a lot, but any roster of Raw or Smackdown from the past 7 years has been deeper than ECW's is now.

A 2 hour ECW would not be good. There's only one or two main event stars, if that, and a couple of solid midcard potential.
It's a great 1 hour show, and it could be getting greater, but...yea.

I think if they threw like 2 or 3 more legit main eventers and an uppermidcard star on the show, then maybe it'd be a stronger argument, but as of right now I see none.

You're right, but I think they could make a two-hour show work. It'd just be a different formula to their other shows. You'd have to give the mid-carders more time. For example, Paul Burchill and Jamie Noble should be allowed to actually work matches. Every week, you'd feature some sort of special "RAW vs. SmackDown!" match, to advertise those two shows. John Morrison & The Miz work their usual magic, and with other guys like Ricky Ortiz, DJ Gabriel, The Boogeyman, Mark Henry, the main eventers and the women still floating around, I think you could pace it out.

I probably wouldn't do it every week, unless they heavily changed the rosters around, but a two-hour special edition of ECW every now and then would be kind of cool.

[Jeritron]

I think ECW would be a good place for Rey, Big Show, Regal and maybe even Jericho if they stop using him in the Raw main event.
I'd rather see him in the Raw main event, but if it's between ECW main event/training young guys and the IC title, I'll take him on ECW.
I think it would be great because he'd get a lot of time with his matches, with some talented young guys so he could kick it more old school.
He also would be booked as dominant, rather than sneaky.

[Heyman]

I'm surprised you are against Christian being on ECW right now, Mr. Hindu. Normally you and I see pretty level on these sort of matters.

To be honest, I just don't see the point.

In my opinion, ECW should be a stomping ground for the following:

1) new wrestlers with semi-promising to promising talent that could benefit from getting more air time on a smaller stage (due to the fact that at the current juncture, they wouldn't get much TV time on the regular shows). A bigger role on a smaller stage can help set them up down the road when they move to a main show. Kofi Kingston, CM Punk, and Jack Swagger are all good examples of this.

2) Old veteran wrestlers that have decent name credibility and can help put over younger talent (i.e. Fit Finlay, Tommy Dreamer, Mark Henry).


ECW should NOT be for a guy that is way over with the fans, is in his prime, and a major return from a sabattical.

Christian should have returned to RAW or Smackdown...period. Just as Jericho re-debuted by coming out and interrupting Orton, Christian also should have come out and interfered with an upper-card wrestler on a MAJOR show.

By associating himself with ECW, it basically wreaks of a guy that is nowhere near main-event status.

It's just a really bad business decision in my opinion.

Christian shouldn't be treated like a Test or a Val Venis or whatever....and he was. If this is the WWE's way of making Christian "pay his dues" for leaving back in 05', then they are more immature/amaterish than I thought.

An absolute boneheaded move in my opinion. :n:

[Heyman]

I think ECW would be a good place for Rey, Big Show, Regal and maybe even Jericho if they stop using him in the Raw main event.



Why put such big names on a show that hardly anyone watches?

At worst - guys like Big Show, Jericho, and Rey should be on Smackdown.

Regal could be a decent guy for ECW however.

[Jeritron]

Well, I don't mean ALL of them. I just mean one or two. They've put serious talent there before. I think it can be good. It's something for them to do when they're in a down period on one of the other brands.
It's similar to what they planned to do with Benoit, before other things happened. It also was good for Matt for a while, and Big Show as well. Had Angle not parted ways, he could have been great for the brand for a decent amout of time before being moved back to the bigger shows.

[Juan]

It's just a really bad business decision in my opinion.


I think that remains to be seen. I honestly think more people will tune in because of Christian. Several people on this board have already stated that they will now watch ECW after last night.

[Jeritron]

I think Regal would be great as a champion GM on ECW. It'd be a good place to push him, and let him dominate for a stretch. Like Finlay, he could be very helpful to the young'ns

[Mr. C]

I'd much rather see Christian used in the Money In The Bank Ladder Match than win the ECW Championship, to be honest. He should've returned to SmackDown by coming out and interrupting Edge.

[Hornicane]

I think Regal would be great as a champion GM on ECW. It'd be a good place to push him, and let him dominate for a stretch. Like Finlay, he could be very helpful to the young'ns

I'd love to see Regal with a 'world' title. He'd be amazing as a main-event heel on ECW, especially considering what they've given us as main-event heels recently.

[Kane Knight]

NO, DAMNIT!!! IT WASN'T ENOUGH. ON HIS RETURN HE SHOULD'VE PINNED EVERY WWE SUPERSTAR AT THE SAME TIME AND THEN HE SHOULD CLIMBED ON THE ROOF OF THE BUILDING AND PINNED THE ARENA TOO! THEN AFTERWARDS EVERYONE SHOULD'VE LINED UP IN FRONT OF HIM, SAID "YOU'RE BETTER THAN ME", AND THEN SUCKED HIS DICK ONE BY ONE!!! GARRRRRRR!

No wonder you're so obssessed with my use of the phrase "strawman."

KK, you cannot play victim to condescension.

Point of interest, I wasn't "playing the victim." Also interesting that you would choose the "you're just wrong" line of argument after criticising me for something "your mom" would say. It's more or less like saying someone's argument is childish and then responding with "Nuh-uh!"

[Kane Knight]

I think that remains to be seen. I honestly think more people will tune in because of Christian. Several people on this board have already stated that they will now watch ECW after last night.

TPWW is hardly the most reliable marker of wrestling fans.

[GD]

This shit is classic. People acted the same way about Jericho last year. Sure, he got a big debut, but everyone complained about his return for a while. Then he went on to have the best fued in ages and win the title, and suddenly nobody said he was sabotaged anymore. Probably because it didn't happen to begin with and everyone flips out over nothing.

So he didn't debut and get thrust into what everyone fantasy booked. Big deal. It's obvious that the Matt vs Jeff storyline is bound for Mania, and Edge hasn't and will not be involved.
He'll likely be defending the title in the main event, against HHH. This gives Christian ZERO involvement in the storyline at this point. There's nothing to do with him on Raw, since he wouldn't be there for long anyhow.

So, there is absolutely no reason that Christian won't be involved in a Hardys and Edge storyline AFTER Mania. It will probably happen. They need Edge for other things, and they realize a Matt v Jeff match is a draw in it's own right. Why rush all four parties into a payoff match when there are other options available first?
Have some patience.

Christian will be fine, and he'll be involved in some capacity with those guys down the line. At this point, given their current plans with Matt Jeff and Edge, they could have either a) waited until after Wrestlemania to debut him or b) taken the current course of action and gotten him involved in wrestlemania, while giving him some warmup.

I'll take b.

:'( I believe in you.

[Kane Knight]

I'm not sure the Jericho comparison is particularly level, especially since it distorts a lot of the complaints that were leveled against Jericho's return.

[GD]

Man I really hope that Christian wins a World title in his new tenure.

[The Mackem]

I actually wonder how many more TNA wrestlers will go to ECW when they switch. TNA run a lighter schedule, so maybe ECW is just being used as an OVW bring back up to speed kinda thing.

[Fox]

Chris Jericho returned during the main event hour of RAW, the company's flagship show, to interrupt the WWE Champion.

Christian returned on ECW, the C-show, to barely defeat a total newbie after help from Finlay and Hornswoggle.

I know that Jericho was a former World Champion and that Christian has only won World Title gold in TNA, but he deserves MORE than what he got. And it's not going to hurt him because Christian is the man and he will rise through adversity and claim his spot on one of the main shows, and that's not my argument. It's that WWE has completely fumbled what could have been made a huge return for one of the best, most charismatic guys in the business. It's a WASTE for the company to auto-create a main event star as opposed to making him "re-earn it." That is stupid on their part.

To everyone who is saying that I'm just complaining that it's not good enough, you're right. It's not god damn good enough. And anyone who is arguing that WWE could not have made a more dynamic entrance for Christian, and that said entrance would not have immediately assisted him in getting way over with the crowd, you simply are not seeing the potential of what Christian's return COULD have been.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think ECW would be a good place for Rey, Big Show, Regal and maybe even Jericho if they stop using him in the Raw main event.
I'd rather see him in the Raw main event, but if it's between ECW main event/training young guys and the IC title, I'll take him on ECW.
I think it would be great because he'd get a lot of time with his matches, with some talented young guys so he could kick it more old school.
He also would be booked as dominant, rather than sneaky.

Back after he returned from his suspension, I was hoping that Regal would go to ECW. I think he'd be perfect for them. He can guide some of the younger guys, and if he wins the ECW Title and then fails his third wellness test, it's not big deal.

While I wouldn't put Chris Jericho on ECW, I can see the rationale behind moving Rey Mysterio and possibly Big Show there. I'd actually go with Rey Mysterio and Umaga, myself.

[Mr. Nerfect]

No wonder you're so obssessed with my use of the phrase "strawman."

You're guilty of the exact same thing. When people talked about CM Punk not being treated right after the Survivor Series 2006, you did the exact same thing, from memory. Get over yourself.

Point of interest, I wasn't "playing the victim." Also interesting that you would choose the "you're just wrong" line of argument after criticising me for something "your mom" would say. It's more or less like saying someone's argument is childish and then responding with "Nuh-uh!"

No, it's not. It's me not taking you seriously. Especially on this matter. Also, crying about being condescended to seems like playing the victim, to me. You're definitely whining about something.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Chris Jericho returned during the main event hour of RAW, the company's flagship show, to interrupt the WWE Champion.

Christian returned on ECW, the C-show, to barely defeat a total newbie after help from Finlay and Hornswoggle.

I know that Jericho was a former World Champion and that Christian has only won World Title gold in TNA, but he deserves MORE than what he got. And it's not going to hurt him because Christian is the man and he will rise through adversity and claim his spot on one of the main shows, and that's not my argument. It's that WWE has completely fumbled what could have been made a huge return for one of the best, most charismatic guys in the business. It's a WASTE for the company to auto-create a main event star as opposed to making him "re-earn it." That is stupid on their part.

To everyone who is saying that I'm just complaining that it's not good enough, you're right. It's not god damn good enough. And anyone who is arguing that WWE could not have made a more dynamic entrance for Christian, and that said entrance would not have immediately assisted him in getting way over with the crowd, you simply are not seeing the potential of what Christian's return COULD have been.

I strongly disagree. Fox, I ask you two things:

First, tell me about how Christian could have debuted in a bigger way, without locking him into a program with someone like Edge, Matt Hardy or Jeff Hardy. They are all doing their own thing. I want to see something realistically different.

I also want to ask you about which ECW Championship match the brand could put forward other than Jack Swagger vs. Christian, that would be just as interesting/exciting.

[The Mackem]

Chris Jericho returned during the main event hour of RAW, the company's flagship show, to interrupt the WWE Champion.

Christian returned on ECW, the C-show, to barely defeat a total newbie after help from Finlay and Hornswoggle.

I know that Jericho was a former World Champion and that Christian has only won World Title gold in TNA, but he deserves MORE than what he got. And it's not going to hurt him because Christian is the man and he will rise through adversity and claim his spot on one of the main shows, and that's not my argument. It's that WWE has completely fumbled what could have been made a huge return for one of the best, most charismatic guys in the business. It's a WASTE for the company to auto-create a main event star as opposed to making him "re-earn it." That is stupid on their part.

To everyone who is saying that I'm just complaining that it's not good enough, you're right. It's not god damn good enough. And anyone who is arguing that WWE could not have made a more dynamic entrance for Christian, and that said entrance would not have immediately assisted him in getting way over with the crowd, you simply are not seeing the potential of what Christian's return COULD have been.

Fox, I don't know how old you are but I am going to assume you are of working age. If somebody left your workplace over three years ago, barely progressed professionally and then came back to a higher position in the company than you - would you be happy? I wouldn't and I bet workers with the WWE wouldn't as well.

Chrisitan has potential, I am not arguing with this but for me he would have to re-earn his place in WWE. He didn't have to leave when he did, he made his choice. If he came back to the same position as the people it is being suggesting he should feud with, it spits in the face of what they have accomplished and their loyalty to the companyand others as well. 'yeah fuck off to TNA for a few years, come back here and we'll pretend it never happened. Oh yeah, we'll put you in a high position within the company as well.' I don't agree. You will also have new fans in the new WWE target audience who will have no idea who he is anyway, as frustrating as that might be it's the truth.

I'd like to see Christian do well, he was on the verge of breaking through to the next level before he left.

[Fabien Barthez]

That there is the same point that me and Jeri have been making. Not that that is a criticism, since it clearly needs repeating, because after every time its mentioned, there is at least 3 more people saying he should have been booked to clusterfuck and destroy any credibility in any of the running storylines right now.

It might be a marks dream to watch the TLC 4 in a match together, but first and foremost, Wrestlemanias are well known now as the one show of the year that will produce 3 or 4 really solid one on one matches. There was absolutely no scope for him to be entered into a singles programme at this point.

Second, stripes need earning. As far as I'm concerned, he may have been close to becoming main event in E, but he didn't. And he may have been in the Main Event in TNA, but not for long. Samoa Joe, AJ to a degree, and a retired wrestler in Mick Foley took his spot. He was just midcard again for a fairly long time. What is it that qualifies the guy to get into a Main Event Programme? He can't draw either.

Lastly, ECW needs an established talent in his prime to be on the show. It needs more if anything. He is about to be pushed as the star of the show, and whether you watch it or not, if you like C, you will be more inclined to watch a show in need of higher ratings. Most of you will watch R or SD anyway. What benifit to business would he be on them shows?


HE IS A MIDCARDER. The internet is probably what drove them to put ECW on live in the first place. He would have been buried even harder had he not been the fuel for rumours for months.

[XL]

Mackem makes a very good point.

As good as it would have been to see Christian return into the Hardys/Edge storyline, it does seem kinda forced. In fact Christian would merely be "Main Event" by association.

Since he left, Edge has become a legitimate ME wrestler, Jeff has been over for years and finally got that little push into the ME scene. Matt should be right at the top of the Upper-Midcard with his ECW Title win and fued with Jeff. Christian returns from nowhere (for most of the WWE audience) and becomes instantly "ME" material due to his past with these guys? Stinks for all the guys that have been plugging away waiting for their chance in the 3 years Christian has been away.

I think a happy medium could have been reached if they'd done the opening segment on this weeks Raw. Have Swagger come across to Raw to address Hornswoggle cos he "just couldn't wait til Tuesday" and then have Christian re-debut on the A show and set up the match between them on ECW for the following night.

This achieves the following:

i) Christian is reintroduced on the Big Stage.
ii) Those fans of Raw that don't watch ECW may well have had their interest piqued enough to tune in on Tuesday.

[Legend Killer]

Ok, did any of you put this into your mind??? Christian can now interfere in the Elimination Chamber or even enter... What if Jeff gets attacked again? See they bring Christian back on ECW to get the Face response, but then he turns heel on Sunday cuz he attacks Jeff once again.

[Legend Killer]

Also this brings credibility back to the ECW Title.

[Fabien Barthez]

Ok, did any of you put this into your mind??? Christian can now interfere in the Elimination Chamber or even enter... What if Jeff gets attacked again? See they bring Christian back on ECW to get the Face response, but then he turns heel on Sunday cuz he attacks Jeff once again.

Interfere in the Chamber match? How would someone like Christian break into a cage?

[Fox]

I strongly disagree. Fox, I ask you two things:

First, tell me about how Christian could have debuted in a bigger way, without locking him into a program with someone like Edge, Matt Hardy or Jeff Hardy. They are all doing their own thing. I want to see something realistically different.

I also want to ask you about which ECW Championship match the brand could put forward other than Jack Swagger vs. Christian, that would be just as interesting/exciting.

To your first question, there are multiple ways. He could have entered the Royal Rumble, for instance, made a huge impact by eliminating several guys, and maybe even making it into the final four before being tossed out by someone like Randy Orton. He then shows up on RAW the next night to cut his big return promo before being interrupted by whoever his first feud would be against, maybe someone like Chris Jericho, and winning a quick verbal sparring match against him.

Another way would've been to have Santino come out at the top of the hour to cut one of his usual promos when Christian's old music hits and he walks out on the stage and proceeds to tear into Santino as he announces his return. He gets into the ring and after a few words, hits Santino with the Unprettier. Bam. Christian is back on RAW.


The most obvious and best though IS the proposed Jeff vs. Matt vs. Edge vs. Christian storyline heading into WrestleMania 25.

At the Royal Rumble, Jeff has Edge beaten for the WWE Title when the ref takes a bump. Christian runs out and nails Jeff with a steel chair, the Unprettier, and Edge gets the win. The next episode of Smackdown, Edge comes out first thing and says that he had no idea that Christian was coming back, let alone that he was going to help him win back the WWE Title. He says thank you. Christian comes out and says that he didn't do it for Edge - he did it because he's gotten sick and tired of watching Jeff be the "brother that could." He reminds everyone that there was a point in time when the four of them were breaking into the business together - almost ten years ago. When Edge became WWE Champion, he said okay, that's fine. But now Jeff is a former WWE Champion, and Christian doesn't want them overshadowing him. He didn't cost Jeff the title to help Edge - he did it to make a statement: He's Back.

Later it would've been revealed that Christian didn't try to run Jeff off the road and didn't knock him out at the hotel. At the rematch between Jeff and Edge at No Way Out, Matt shows up to "help" Jeff, but ends up knocking him out too. On the following Smackdown it's revealed that he was the one who did all of those things to Jeff, because he's sick of his little brother getting the spotlight.

So you build to WrestleMania with Jeff being conflicted with his dreams of winning the WWE Title at WrestleMania and the turmoil of his brother turning on him - Matt with nothing but utter jealously and selfishness aimed at his brother and his own undying desire to win the WWE Title - Christian with his cockiness and uneasy relationship with his brother and his desire to make a splash in the WWE - and Edge, wanting nothing but to get away from these people with his belt intact.


As far as who should've faced Jack Swagger for the ECW Title, MVP or R-Truth would have been great choices.

[Fox]

Fox, I don't know how old you are but I am going to assume you are of working age. If somebody left your workplace over three years ago, barely progressed professionally and then came back to a higher position in the company than you - would you be happy? I wouldn't and I bet workers with the WWE wouldn't as well.

Chrisitan has potential, I am not arguing with this but for me he would have to re-earn his place in WWE. He didn't have to leave when he did, he made his choice. If he came back to the same position as the people it is being suggesting he should feud with, it spits in the face of what they have accomplished and their loyalty to the companyand others as well. 'yeah fuck off to TNA for a few years, come back here and we'll pretend it never happened. Oh yeah, we'll put you in a high position within the company as well.' I don't agree. You will also have new fans in the new WWE target audience who will have no idea who he is anyway, as frustrating as that might be it's the truth.

I'd like to see Christian do well, he was on the verge of breaking through to the next level before he left.

Since when does fairness have anything to do with booking in the WWE? How is it fair that Vladimir Kozlov has already had atleast 2 WWE Championship matches on PPV when a guy like Shelton Benjamin, who is clearly a much better talent and has been with the company since 2001, has NEVER had one? It's all about the money. Vince books Vladimir vs. Triple H over Shelton vs. Triple H because (he believes) it will be a bigger draw.

Christian vs. Edge vs. Matt vs. Jeff is a big money match. That is something that people will be drawn to come and see.

What's a draw about Christian vs. Jack Swagger? It's a waste of talent.

[Kane Knight]

You're guilty of the exact same thing. When people talked about CM Punk not being treated right after the Survivor Series 2006, you did the exact same thing, from memory. Get over yourself.

You're only remembering a partial truth, which is what you usually do. See also, your statement, even after .44 Criticdalene proved you wrong, that I said Jericho was not returning.

I've said it before:



I am not responsible for what you infer.
I am not responsible for what you assume.
I am not responsible for what you make up.

Telling me to "get over myself" is more of the above, as well.

No, it's not. It's me not taking you seriously. Especially on this matter.

Looks more like you have no argument, and are hypocritically trying to avoid reasoning.

Also, crying about being condescended to seems like playing the victim, to me. You're definitely whining about something.

Again, I wasn't "crying." Your assumptions are baseless. Well, they seemed to be based in the continued need to attack me, even though I'm not doing the same to you. Be less defensive, Noid.

[Kane Knight]

Fox, I don't know how old you are but I am going to assume you are of working age. If somebody left your workplace over three years ago, barely progressed professionally and then came back to a higher position in the company than you - would you be happy? I wouldn't and I bet workers with the WWE wouldn't as well.

Chrisitan has potential, I am not arguing with this but for me he would have to re-earn his place in WWE. He didn't have to leave when he did, he made his choice. If he came back to the same position as the people it is being suggesting he should feud with, it spits in the face of what they have accomplished and their loyalty to the companyand others as well. 'yeah fuck off to TNA for a few years, come back here and we'll pretend it never happened. Oh yeah, we'll put you in a high position within the company as well.' I don't agree. You will also have new fans in the new WWE target audience who will have no idea who he is anyway, as frustrating as that might be it's the truth.

I'd like to see Christian do well, he was on the verge of breaking through to the next level before he left.

Wasn't he feuding with Cena shortly before? I mean, Cena cracks aside, I'm at a loss as to how it's even viable that he would be returned to a higher position.

This also seems like a particularly lame justification when you look at the history of returns in pro wrestling.

[XL]

Boys, can we please keep it on topic instead of making this thread into yet another bitching session between Noid/KK et al?

[BigDaddyCool]

Notice, while I disagree with Noid, and think he is a retard, I'm not taking this thread off topic. I'm still trying to proccess why they brough Christian back with no fanfare, no titiantron, no teaser, no nothing. I mean it just doesn't make sense.

[Kane Knight]

XL, can you please not exacerbate things by giving Noid a chance to play the martyr?

[Kane Knight]

Notice, while I disagree with Noid, and think he is a retard, I'm not taking this thread off topic. I'm still trying to proccess why they brough Christian back with no fanfare, no titiantron, no teaser, no nothing. I mean it just doesn't make sense.

But apparently, that's a good thing.

[XL]

XL, can you please not exacerbate things by giving Noid a chance to play the martyr?
Jesus, that's the last thing I'm trying to do. Perhaps I'll zip it on that one :-\.

C'mon guys, we all know that Noid can put a positive spin on anything. Why do we have to see that as a bad thing? I've said it before, I'd love to be as optimistic as Noid is.

I'm a big mark for Christian. I would have loved the "Huge Star Returning" fanfare - the weeks of promos, the huge fanfare on the biggest possible stage, cutting down the top star. But we didn't get that. Noid (and Jeri) make some good points about fitting him in and keeping other potential matches on the WM card. i guess we'll have to see how it all plays out.

[screech]

I think a happy medium could have been reached if they'd done the opening segment on this weeks Raw. Have Swagger come across to Raw to address Hornswoggle cos he "just couldn't wait til Tuesday" and then have Christian re-debut on the A show and set up the match between them on ECW for the following night.

This achieves the following:

i) Christian is reintroduced on the Big Stage.
ii) Those fans of Raw that don't watch ECW may well have had their interest piqued enough to tune in on Tuesday.

I really like this idea. It still gives him a chance to "run the show" on ECW, and to let the fans become familiar with him (again/at all).

[screech]

It also keeps the WM card intact. As someone said earlier (Jeri I think), it would be nice to see the Hardys/E&C feud build over the summer. It lets Christian become familiar with the fans (as I said) and the four-sided ring (:shifty:). I for one am interested to see how this goes (mainly because I'm a Christian mark).

[The Mackem]

Wasn't he feuding with Cena shortly before? I mean, Cena cracks aside, I'm at a loss as to how it's even viable that he would be returned to a higher position.

This also seems like a particularly lame justification when you look at the history of returns in pro wrestling.

Which led to a triple threat match. He was heading on to big things, I'm not denying that, however he did not make it. The timing of his leaving was bad.

He is only a former intercontinental and tag team champion at best which is where he loses out to Chris Jericho. A higher position would be catapulted into one of the main event Wrestlemania feuds, which they are currently running, under two months before the event.

[The Mackem]

Since when does fairness have anything to do with booking in the WWE? How is it fair that Vladimir Kozlov has already had atleast 2 WWE Championship matches on PPV when a guy like Shelton Benjamin, who is clearly a much better talent and has been with the company since 2001, has NEVER had one? It's all about the money. Vince books Vladimir vs. Triple H over Shelton vs. Triple H because (he believes) it will be a bigger draw.

Christian vs. Edge vs. Matt vs. Jeff is a big money match. That is something that people will be drawn to come and see.

What's a draw about Christian vs. Jack Swagger? It's a waste of talent.

Christian never got a significant push near the main event until just before his contract ran out. You are right it's all about money so why should they ruin what they have been building towards because of someone that wouldn't do what they wanted, went to the 'competition' and then came running back when it never worked out?

Since when does fairness have anything to do with booking in the WWE?

We'll change 'fairness' to 'politics' then.

[Legend Killer]

Interfere in the Chamber match? How would someone like Christian break into a cage?

HINT: His name is Christian Cage!

Back a truck up and pull the chamber door open. You don't watch a lot of Hell in the Cell Matches do you???

[XL]

Christian was barely fueding with Cena before he left. Yeah there was some verbal sparring and the Triple Threat with Jericho but Christian ended up being drafted SmackDown where he did nothing. If I remember correctly his last appearance was at Tabboo Tuesday as one of the choices for a match - which he did out of contract.

Three weeks of jaw jacking with the champ and a match which the bookers felt needed Jericho adding to it doesn't equate to Main Event status to me.

[Juan]

God, I hate the wrestling forum sometimes

[St. Jimmy]

Jack Swagger should go back to FCW. He's terrible all around.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by Jeritron http://www.tpww.net/forums/images/buttonsred/viewpost.gif (http://www.tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2432925#post2432925)
This shit is classic. People acted the same way about Jericho last year. Sure, he got a big debut, but everyone complained about his return for a while. Then he went on to have the best fued in ages and win the title, and suddenly nobody said he was sabotaged anymore. Probably because it didn't happen to begin with and everyone flips out over nothing.

I see what you're saying but I don't quite agree with that.

After Jericho debuted, it was obvious that his 'face' personna and image was very outdated. As a result of that, Jericho 'floundered' and was receiving luke warm face pops at best (as I had predicted). Those luke warm face pops than turned into some mild boo's.

It wasn't until Jericho made his radical heel turn that his character was COMPLETELY revitalized.

The WWE shit the bed when Jericho arrived and he suffered as result. The heel turn nullified all damage however...and Jericho went back to being awesome.

[GD]

God, I hate the wrestling forum sometimes

[thedamndest]

Christian vs. Edge vs. Matt vs. Jeff is a big money match. That is something that people will be drawn to come and see.

What's a draw about Christian vs. Jack Swagger? It's a waste of talent.

I agree, and pretty much everyone here does, that it is a big money match. If we put a poll on it, I think we would all guess that TLC would be the match type. So it would look pretty strange to have three World Champions and Christian going into the TLC match. It would be that much bigger if it were brother v. brother v. brother v. brother, champion v. champion v. champion v. champion.

Yeah, they could try and cram that match into NWO with the two chambers. Or maybe Wrestlemania, with the MitB. Or they could save it, and actually build the storyline.

[Mr. Nerfect]

To your first question, there are multiple ways. He could have entered the Royal Rumble, for instance, made a huge impact by eliminating several guys, and maybe even making it into the final four before being tossed out by someone like Randy Orton. He then shows up on RAW the next night to cut his big return promo before being interrupted by whoever his first feud would be against, maybe someone like Chris Jericho, and winning a quick verbal sparring match against him.

Another way would've been to have Santino come out at the top of the hour to cut one of his usual promos when Christian's old music hits and he walks out on the stage and proceeds to tear into Santino as he announces his return. He gets into the ring and after a few words, hits Santino with the Unprettier. Bam. Christian is back on RAW.

I love you Fox, but I've got to argue this:

Christian returning in the Royal Rumble Match -- and losing -- makes him look better than debuting on ECW and beating the Champion there? Christian returning against Santino Marella makes him look better than returning and defeating the ECW Champion? Maybe it works better in your head, but in mine, it is an instant passage into the mid-card for Christian.

The most obvious and best though IS the proposed Jeff vs. Matt vs. Edge vs. Christian storyline heading into WrestleMania 25.

At the Royal Rumble, Jeff has Edge beaten for the WWE Title when the ref takes a bump. Christian runs out and nails Jeff with a steel chair, the Unprettier, and Edge gets the win. The next episode of Smackdown, Edge comes out first thing and says that he had no idea that Christian was coming back, let alone that he was going to help him win back the WWE Title. He says thank you. Christian comes out and says that he didn't do it for Edge - he did it because he's gotten sick and tired of watching Jeff be the "brother that could." He reminds everyone that there was a point in time when the four of them were breaking into the business together - almost ten years ago. When Edge became WWE Champion, he said okay, that's fine. But now Jeff is a former WWE Champion, and Christian doesn't want them overshadowing him. He didn't cost Jeff the title to help Edge - he did it to make a statement: He's Back.

Later it would've been revealed that Christian didn't try to run Jeff off the road and didn't knock him out at the hotel. At the rematch between Jeff and Edge at No Way Out, Matt shows up to "help" Jeff, but ends up knocking him out too. On the following Smackdown it's revealed that he was the one who did all of those things to Jeff, because he's sick of his little brother getting the spotlight.

So you build to WrestleMania with Jeff being conflicted with his dreams of winning the WWE Title at WrestleMania and the turmoil of his brother turning on him - Matt with nothing but utter jealously and selfishness aimed at his brother and his own undying desire to win the WWE Title - Christian with his cockiness and uneasy relationship with his brother and his desire to make a splash in the WWE - and Edge, wanting nothing but to get away from these people with his belt intact.


As far as who should've faced Jack Swagger for the ECW Title, MVP or R-Truth would have been great choices.

There are a few problems with the scenario you have suggested, although it is one of the most organic of the Edge/Christian/Matt/Jeff ideas I have read:

1) As you saw, Christian returning got a face pop. Do you really want the genuine interest in Christian to be wasted with him enforcing that he is a bad guy? It's playing against the fans, and it's going to confuse and upset them. Some people will cheer Christian hitting Jeff with a steel chair, and that's not exactly a visual you want. It sends the message that Jeff isn't worth cheering, and that this Christian guy is the good guy. It just makes things more confusing.

Christian returning as a face was absolutely the right move. Both from a creative and business standpoint. Hell, while he's hot, Christian might even move some merchandise. He was entertaining as hell on ECW, and he fills a gap in the face line-up that wasn't previously there. Triple H may actually be the closest thing the WWE has to a face with a zinging attitude right now.

2) In your scenario, you have three heels and one face. Maybe that is intentional, but it seems a little messy to me. Jeff Hardy is the only real character for the fans to attach to, so you're basically dedicating 75% of the angle to guys the fans don't like. That could turn some people off. If they were going to do something with those four men at WrestleMania, then I think a tag team match would have been the best option. That way you have two faces and two heels, and things a lot more even.

3) This idea immediately violates realism, because you do realise you have "the richest prize in the industry" being defended at the 25th anniversary of the Granddaddy of Them All between four former tag team specialists. Jeff Hardy is a guy with two wellness violations to his name; Matt Hardy has never been a "real World Champion" before, and has never really main eventing a PPV; Christian is only a few months off returning to the company after a three-year absence, prior to which he had no main event experience; with Edge probably being the only proven reliable main eventer of the four.

Again, it also leaves Triple H out in the cold. If you think that the WWE Title match at an event like WrestleMania XXV is going to leave out the guy who is banging the boss' daughter, and has been arbitrarily part of a World Title match every WrestleMania he could attend since WrestleMania X-8, for the fucking Hardy Boyz, you're delusional. Unless Triple H was injured with time to plan, there is no way the WWE Title match at WrestleMania is going to feature anyone but Triple H. If you want to include Edge, Christian, Matt Hardy and Jeff Hardy, you better make it a Five-Way.

Any WWE Title match idea for WrestleMania XXV that doesn't involve Triple H should immediately be disqualified for being unrealistic. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is.

As for MVP and R-Truth being suitable opponents for Jack Swagger? I'll maybe give you MVP. In fact, I would have loved to have seen MVP on ECW as a face. But that being said, Jack Swagger vs. Christian is definitely a bigger match. So even if you think you're taking away from the epicness of the other matches at the event (and with Edge vs. Triple H and Matt Hardy vs. Jeff Hardy, I don't think you are), you're at least bulking up those lower on the card.

[Mr. Nerfect]

You're only remembering a partial truth, which is what you usually do. See also, your statement, even after .44 Criticdalene proved you wrong, that I said Jericho was not returning.

I've said it before:



I am not responsible for what you infer.
I am not responsible for what you assume.
I am not responsible for what you make up.

Telling me to "get over myself" is more of the above, as well.

What are you going on about? Are you really trying to analyse the complex history and realities of me calling you a baby? Wow, that's fucking sad.

You claimed that Fabien was being condescending towards you. He was not. You are condescending towards everyone else. Go fuck yourself. What does Jericho have to do with any of this?

Looks more like you have no argument, and are hypocritically trying to avoid reasoning.

You're right, I'm not reasoning. I am not playing with you today. Fuck off and go touch yourself.

Again, I wasn't "crying." Your assumptions are baseless. Well, they seemed to be based in the continued need to attack me, even though I'm not doing the same to you. Be less defensive, Noid.

:rofl:

Alright, this is just ridiculous. Why the hell are you trying to structure an arguement about whether or not you are a pussy? You were crying, you're a dickhead for getting so defensive about it, and you need to reflect on yourself a lot more than you do.

Also, I wasn't even attacked. How could I be defensive? You're past your prime, KK. I'm actually embarrassed to be doing the whole "arch-nemisis" thing with you anymore. You're getting desperate and clingy. I think we need some time apart.

[GD]

I love you Fox, but I've got to argue this:

Christian returning in the Royal Rumble Match -- and losing -- makes him look better than debuting on ECW and beating the Champion there? Christian returning against Santino Marella makes him look better than returning and defeating the ECW Champion? Maybe it works better in your head, but in mine, it is an instant passage into the mid-card for Christian.


Well he could have tagged in with Cena. Besides he is not been listed as an ECW superstar yet. For the record, Santino is a bigger star than Jack Swagger. And we all know that it would have made a huge impact if Christian returned on Raw maybe for even one night it would have been worth it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Notice, while I disagree with Noid, and think he is a retard, I'm not taking this thread off topic. I'm still trying to proccess why they brough Christian back with no fanfare, no titiantron, no teaser, no nothing. I mean it just doesn't make sense.

Christian had a titantron. It was a pretty cool one, actually. The teaser and the fanfare was not needed, in my opinion. I guess the WWE wanted to do a surprise return. It says that you can't afford to miss a single episode of WWE programming (which we know is bullshit, but it makes a point), and reminds you that anything can happen in the WWE.

I mean, what exactly would hyping the return have done? Boosted the rating a little more? Gotten more people watching and complaining? This way, people can here about it, or see the recap videos on SmackDown! or RAW, and be like "Fuck, I've really got to watch now!" It pretty much accomplishes the same thing.

[Mr. C]

Another way would’ve been to have Edge come out to cut one of his promos when Christian’s old music hits, and he walks down and proceeds to tear into Edge as he announces his return. After a few words, Christian hits Edge with the mic and leaves the ring while Edge holds his head in pain. The announcers hype Christian vs. Edge for later in the show…

But we didn’t get that.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Well he could have tagged in with Cena. Besides he is not been listed as an ECW superstar yet. For the record, Santino is a bigger star than Jack Swagger. And we all know that it would have made a huge impact if Christian returned on Raw maybe for even one night it would have been worth it.

I get where people are coming from with Santino being a "bigger star," but he's certainly not a more credible star. Christian giving him The Unprettier makes about as big a statement as Christian beating up Beth Phoenix would. Hell, some fans might see that as more impressive.

If people did not want Christian to get lost in the shuffle, then I cannot understand why they would want him to return to RAW or SmackDown!, where nearly everyone is sorted into a major program.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Another way would’ve been to have Edge come out to cut one of his promos when Christian’s old music hits, and he walks down and proceeds to tear into Edge as he announces his return. After a few words, Christian hits Edge with the mic and leaves the ring while Edge holds his head in pain. The announcers hype Christian vs. Edge for later in the show…

But we didn’t get that.

But then what for Christian? It's obvious where Christian defeating Jack Swagger goes: Christian wins the ECW Title at WrestleMania. But where does Christian going over Edge lead? Keep in mind that he CANNOT challenge for the WWE Championship at WrestleMania!

[Mr. Nerfect]

XL, can you please not exacerbate things by giving Noid a chance to play the martyr?


I am not responsible for what you infer.
I am not responsible for what you assume.
I am not responsible for what you make up.


Can you please get back to the fucking conversation at hand?

[BigDaddyCool]

Christian had a titantron. It was a pretty cool one, actually. The teaser and the fanfare was not needed, in my opinion. I guess the WWE wanted to do a surprise return. It says that you can't afford to miss a single episode of WWE programming (which we know is bullshit, but it makes a point), and reminds you that anything can happen in the WWE.

I mean, what exactly would hyping the return have done? Boosted the rating a little more? Gotten more people watching and complaining? This way, people can here about it, or see the recap videos on SmackDown! or RAW, and be like "Fuck, I've really got to watch now!" It pretty much accomplishes the same thing.

Shut up noid. Quit trying to justify WWE's blunders when you can't even justify your own.

[GD]

Cole: Oh My! Christian just hit that poor defenseless lady with the unpreetier.
King: He is a face you idiot!
Cole: Vintage Christian their folks. He gave Beth what she deserved.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I actually just realised I don't really know what people's problem with Christian's debut actually was. Is it just because he wasn't fantasy booked into a WWE Title match at WrestleMania?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Cole: Oh My! Christian just hit that poor defenseless lady with the unpreetier.
King: He is a face you idiot!
Cole: Vintage Christian their folks. He gave Beth what she deserved.

Pretty much exactly how it would go.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Shut up noid. Quit trying to justify WWE's blunders when you can't even justify your own.

I have made three blunders in my life. I found no need to justify them, as people make blunders, and that should be accepted.

Also, this isn't a blunder by the WWE.

[BigDaddyCool]

I actually just realised I don't really know what people's problem with Christian's debut actually was. Is it just because he wasn't fantasy booked into a WWE Title match at WrestleMania?

No, what? Most people's problem was that he was being teased to be part of a brothers vs brother feud that harkens back to the glory days of WWE and instead we get Christian just being thrown on ECW with no warning and no heads up. Just flipping through the channels, and then I see Christian v Jack Swagger, what the hell? This is how they bring him back?

[BigDaddyCool]

But seriously noid, shut the fuck up.

[Juan]

No, what? Most people's problem was that he was being teased to be part of a brothers vs brother feud that harkens back to the glory days of WWE and instead we get Christian just being thrown on ECW with no warning and no heads up. Just flipping through the channels, and then I see Christian v Jack Swagger, what the hell? This is how they bring him back?

When was that teased?

[BigDaddyCool]

Shut up Juan. :mad: It made more sence for him to be in that angle given the time line of the attacks and his past with Edge and the Hardies. Prehaps he was ever named. Maybe it was just markish hope. But this was a crap return.

[Juan]

It made sense when the attacks happened, but since then it's clear that WWE is gonna run with Matt vs. Jeff and Edge vs. HHH at WM25. Where does Christian fit in?

I mean. i guess I agree that the actual debut was rather lackluster, but other than that, I really don't see a problem.

[BigDaddyCool]

They should have been building his return, not just him showing up and facing swagger while Finlay is feuding with Swagger, completely confused me.

[Juan]

I dunno, I think that even if they would have hyped up his return on ECW, people would still be complaining because he's on ECW and not Raw or Smackdown.

[Krimzon7]

It adds some depth to ECW. They need to get us maroons to watch the Sci Fi channel. This is the way the do it. ECW has good matches, and good YOUNG talent, save Finlay and Dreamer. Why not add to it?

[BigDaddyCool]

They would, but they wouldn't have complained about him not getting hyped.

[Krimzon7]

I miss the TV title. ECW should have one. Actually every show should have a title that is defended every freaking week.

[Triple Naitch]

They should just bring back the Cruiserweight title and have it defended on ECW

[Mr. Nerfect]

No, what? Most people's problem was that he was being teased to be part of a brothers vs brother feud that harkens back to the glory days of WWE and instead we get Christian just being thrown on ECW with no warning and no heads up. Just flipping through the channels, and then I see Christian v Jack Swagger, what the hell? This is how they bring him back?

Yeah, when was that teased?

[Mr. Nerfect]

What good would hyping Christian's return have actually done?

[BigDaddyCool]

What good would hyping Christian's return have actually done?

If you really have to ask that, then there is no point in talking wrestling with you ever.

[Heyman]

For those that missed it:

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Oh god. :|:nono::nono::nono::nono::nono:

It's even worse than I thought.

[[[[[EDIT - I just listened to the music....I actually don't mind his new theme]]]]]]]

I was under the impression that Christian simply had made a blind-side attack....and hadn't debuted yet in the WWE.

This is an absolute joke.

I mean fuck - if you're going to push Christian as a face, then why not have him go against Jericho at Mania? Perhaps Flair introducing Christian to Jericho would've been a little "too over the top" (i.e. An argument can be made that Christian isn't THAT big a star to warrant Flair introducing him) but still.....that would've been WAY better.



Hopefully - Christian doesn't stay in ECW for very long...if at all. :n:

[Mr. Nerfect]

If you really have to ask that, then there is no point in talking wrestling with you ever.

No, really. It's not like we're talking the return of The Rock here. Christian is an upper mid-carder. And even then, the occasional surprise return is fantastic. People watching the show got a massive reward for tuning in, and any good that hyping Christian's return would have done will be achieved via Christian's return to the brand, anyway.

[Juan]

Oh god. :|:nono::nono::nono::nono::nono:

It's even worse than I thought.

What the hell did they do to Christian's music?!?!?! Why not keep the original version of it? (and if it's a copywright issue, why just give him a crappier watered down version of the original?).

I was under the impression that Christian simply had made a blind-side attack....and hadn't debuted yet in the WWE.

This is an absolute joke.

I mean fuck - if you're going to push Christian as a face, then why not have him go against Jericho at Mania? Perhaps Flair introducing Christian to Jericho would've been a little "too over the top" (i.e. An argument can be made that Christian isn't THAT big a star to warrant Flair introducing him) but still.....that would've been WAY better.



Hopefully - Christian doesn't stay in ECW for very long...if at all. :n:

So something that makes even less sense is better??

[BigDaddyCool]

I agree with Triple Hindu, that was poor.

[BigDaddyCool]

No, really. It's not like we're talking the return of The Rock here. Christian is an upper mid-carder. And even then, the occasional surprise return is fantastic. People watching the show got a massive reward for tuning in, and any good that hyping Christian's return would have done will be achieved via Christian's return to the brand, anyway.

Good way to miss the mark again noid. ECW has horrible rating. By teasing a big name is coming back to ECW, and do the teasing on Raw and Smackdown as well, so people might actaully give a shit, that would have created ratings instead of rewarding all 3 people that watch ECW on a weekly basis.

It is one thing to have someone just show up on raw or a ppv unannounced to prove anything can happen it is completely different for having someone show up on the c show unannounce, it is saying he is unimportant. Plus he is just forced into a story line that doesn't make any sence.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh god. :|:nono::nono::nono::nono::nono:

It's even worse than I thought.

What the hell did they do to Christian's music?!?!?! Why not keep the original version of it? (and if it's a copywright issue, why just give him a crappier watered down version of the original?).

I was under the impression that Christian simply had made a blind-side attack....and hadn't debuted yet in the WWE.

This is an absolute joke.

I mean fuck - if you're going to push Christian as a face, then why not have him go against Jericho at Mania? Perhaps Flair introducing Christian to Jericho would've been a little "too over the top" (i.e. An argument can be made that Christian isn't THAT big a star to warrant Flair introducing him) but still.....that would've been WAY better.



Hopefully - Christian doesn't stay in ECW for very long...if at all. :n:

I don't mind Christian's new music. I think the idea with changing it is that, while it was undeniably a good song, the female vocalist added a sort of passive quality to the theme. I'm not saying I agree with that, but I'm thinking that may be why they did it. A male vocalist adds some bass, and makes Christian look more dominant? If not in a kick-ass way, then it just makes him look less like a "CLB" (that's "Creepy Little Bastard," if you don't remember).

It sounds way better on the television than it does in that video. It's much more distorted there. I've heard a lot of mixed views on the theme. The general consensus is that people generally like it, but don't like the intro. Personally, I think it just needs a longer instrumental lead-in, and it'll be fine.

As far as Christian's promo went, personally, I thought it was awesome. Christian just oozes of charisma, and the "I'm interrupting your promo" bit just reeked of Edge & Christian talking about doing a run-in from the commentary table back in the day. Also, I genuinely marked out a little on the inside when Christian said he was out there to save Jack Swagger's life. The way he said that was perfect. Damn, that is a charismatic man. The fans also bought in hook, line and sinker. He was just on fire in that segment, and played his character perfectly.

The match itself was really good. I liked some of the spots they worked in. The springboard flying sunset flip, and Christian swinging on the ropes to kick Swagger in the face were two spots I really enjoyed. And the German suplex from the apron tease was pretty intense. Given that they were no doubt holding back for a later match, I thought this was more than fine.