So the Kareru thread had me thinking...

[Testicle]

What does it mean anymore to be a pro wrestler?

Can I throw on a pair of gym shorts and stab myself with a needle and call myself a wrestler, do I even need to go to a school and get training? Or can I subject myself to unnecissary acts of violence, is that all it takes?

Are guys like Nick Mondo pro wrestlers?

[kareru]

even death match wrestler have wrestling training dude

[Seth82]

What serious wrestling school would train those bozo's

[kareru]

Danny Havoc
Trained by :Mike Quackenbush, Chris Hero

[thedamndest]

Where do I sign up for the class on getting stabbed with scissors?

[kareru]

Drake Younger
Trained by :American Kickboxer
Ian Rotten
Chris Hero
Low Ki


i could go on

[Indifferent Clox]

Yeah czw guys are pro wrestlers but to me deathmatches are like the dark side.
They are using their abilities to make the sport look awful imo.

[Nark Order]

D'VON! GET THE FUCKING SYRINGES!

[muffalufagus]

D'VON! GET THE FUCKING SYRINGES!

It was bound to happen.

Anyway, I admit I've seen some great matches from CZW, but I don't think that they outweigh the garbage that I've seen from them, and other promotions like them.

[Impeccable]

They are using their abilities to make the sport look awful imo.

:y:

[Dave Youell]

The dissapointing thing is that CZW, have had some decent talent come through their doors. But they are more known for the garbage stuff, and from what I can tell, almost 2 seperate rosters for CZW.

Those who can wrestle and those that can't (the latter do the garbage matches)

[USAUSA1]

Yeah czw guys are pro wrestlers but to me deathmatches are like the dark side.
They are using their abilities to make the sport look awful imo.

I think WWE hurt the business public image more than these guys ever did. What these guys do is on a small scale.

[Rammsteinmad]

Some CZW matches can be quite good when it doesn't involve shit loads of weapons etc.

I was watching The Wrestler with my mum and during the Ram Robinson/Necro Butcher match I was so embarrassed, and kept telling my mum like "These guys are fucking idiots, wrestling isn't usually like this, but there's a few companies that do stupid things like this".

[kareru]

anyway when you get untrained wrestlers in death matches you get

The Mike Levy Incident.

During the 3rd annual IWA-Mid South Queen of the Deathmatch Tournament that took place on June 21, 2008 in the parking lot of Alley Cats Lanes bowling alley in Sellersburg, Indiana. Mickie Knuckles took on "The White Lion" Mike Levy.

Mike Levy was an untrained wrestler who through the internet made it known that he wanted to be in the deathmatch tourney, the false hype by a few wrestling message boards led Ian Rotten to fly out Levy and add him to the womens tourney as a joke.

Levy was set to take on former champion Mickie Knuckles, as she made her way to the ring, Ian met her on the entrance way and whispered something to her. It is unknown for sure but belived to be something pertaining to the match ahead.

The match started off with Mickie laying on the offence hard with stiff hits and the use of weapons. At one point Levy attempted to block a move and return some offence of his own. However his inexperience caused it to be very awkward leading Mickie to become angry.

Both Knuckles and Levy began to stiff each other with various hits throughout the match.

After Knuckles won the match both Devon Moore and Tank ran into the ring and cut a promo on how Levy needs to learn how to sell. The crowd began chanting for Levy’s finisher The Curb Stomp. So tank held levy’s head over a barbed wire ladder and Devon came off the top rope with a double stomp that drove Levy’s head hard into the ladder.

As if that wasn’t enough, Tank climbed to the second rope and let his much larger size come crashing down from the second rope, wrapping Levy’s head around the ladder in a sickening fashion.

After this Levy tried to escape as Devon, Ian Rotten, and others continued to beat him down. Devon and Rotten took turns insulting him, telling him that he needs to “learn how to sell”

Even Ian Rotten’s young son got into the fight by beating a grounded Levy with a Kendo Stick, and later kicking him. The child can even be seen asking “daddy” if its alright to hit him.

Lastly Ian Rotten got on the mic and explained how Mickie has a national tv deal, but because of his inexperience she now has a giant knot on her head (which may have been caused by her vicious headbutts from earlier in the match).

The extent of Levy’s injuries (if any) are currently unknown.


Ian Rotten = total asshole

[kareru]

<object width="400" height="300"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=1457927&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=&amp;ful lscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=1457927&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=&amp;ful lscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="300"></embed></object><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/1457927">The Mike Levy Incident</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user528322">Tomm</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

and no, i didn't like this at all, this wasn't a match, it was near enough attempted murder

[mike adamle]

I really don't understand your point kareru. Are you defending garbage wrestling or what?

[kareru]

I really don't understand your point kareru. Are you defending garbage wrestling or what?

my point is even 'garbage' wrestlers are trained

[The Pope]

So you are saying John Cena was trained? lol

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Yeah, they should all be fucking sued and charged with battery.

[thedamndest]

my point is even 'garbage' wrestlers are trained

Hitler went to art school before he set out to exterminate the Jews.

[mike adamle]

my point is even 'garbage' wrestlers are trained

As you just showed a video of Mike Levy, an untrained wrestler, in a deathmatch.

[Xero]

He was trained in his yard. With some tards.

[kareru]

As you just showed a video of Mike Levy, an untrained wrestler, in a deathmatch.

didn't you read the first post?

the video is to show what happens to untrained death match wrestlers

[kareru]

Hitler went to art school before he set out to exterminate the Jews.

nice unrelated fact, got anymore?

[What Would Kevin Do?]

The problem is, using Mike Levy as an example to show that death match wrestlers are actually well trained isn't exactly a good idea. What happened to Mike Levy has less to do with him being untrained, and more to do with everyone else in that clip being a fucking douche' bag and horrible fucking people.

All the training and skills in the world, in my opinion, does not justify what they do as wrestling to me. If Bryan Danielson started throwing suplexes through glass, and rubbing a guys face in thumbtacks while doing a Cattle Mutilation on a regular basis, I would say the same thing about him... It's fucking stupid. No amount of skill will make me respect this type of death match wrestling. The only time I can remotely understand shit like that is in long standing, heated feuds (See: Jimmy Jacobs vs BJ Whitmer cage match, and even they didn't go anywhere near the level of some of that shit.)

So yeah, if you like it, whatever, but honestly, I equate it to watching videos of cat accidents online.

[Dave Youell]

WRESTLING IS AN ART FORM.

The ART in wrestling is working with your partner(s) in a match making things look like they hurt, without actually causing injury.

Thus far Kareru, any example you have given does not fall within any of the realms of this, what you are giving examples of, in both threads, are quasi snuff films that do not try to portray the art of wrestling, instead it purely shows that there's a pretty sick minority market out there that pay money to see other human beings get disfigured. I just cannot see anyway how this can be defended

[thedamndest]

I THINK Kareru was trying to make a point about the violence itself being the art when he compared it to the Indonesians.

[kareru]

its meant to provoke an emotion whether its ' oh wow that's so cool' or 'omg that is so sick it should be banned' and its done well
you shouldnt worry about the people that think its cool
its the guys that whip out their cocks and beat off to it you need to worry about

[thedamndest]

Well you're right in that it does provoke emotions. But as Dave Youell stated above, the aim of professional wrestling and the art in that is NOT to legitimately injure your opponent. You can have things like chairs and ladders and stuff thrown into the mix, but you take precautions to protect your opponent and work the spot in the safest way possible. Once you start jabbing each other with scissors, it's not a wrestling match.

As I said before, anything can be art and anyone can be an artist because the terms are so vague. That doesn't mean that everything involving art or its creation is good or has any kind of standards of quality. But that is a bit beside the point. Are the twenty people at ringside screaming for blood really there for a cultural enlightenment, or do they just want to drink beer and see blood?

[Lord-Of-Darkness]

Can't help but agree with everyone with the same opinion as thedamndest and Dave. This so called 'hardcore wrestling' is nothing but sideshow garbage. And is more comparable to what you can see on rotten.com than actual professional wrestling.

My limit on hardcore wrestling is along the lines of the old ECW, or the WWF's old hardcore division. Tables, ladders, chairs, stop signs. All used in the right places, and used in a way that limits how much damage is done to the reciever and to increase the visual impact.

As has been stated, stabbing people with a needle, scissors or slamming through glass tubes is not wrestling just because it is in a ring, sprinkled with a few wrestling moves.

[Indifferent Clox]

I think when Kurt angle slammed Shane through glass it was cool.

Like WWKD said COlt Cabana HOmicide/ bj whitmer jimmyjacobs

Even BJPW Garbage was ok

but hypodermic needles? Weedwackers

[Lord-Of-Darkness]

I think when Kurt angle slammed Shane through glass it was cool.

The Shane/Angle thing was fine, because it was a spot. If memory serves me correctly, they didn't go on to powerbomb each other through barbwire c4 tables and staple each others eyes out.

[FourFifty]

Mass Transit VS Mike Levy
BOOK IT!!!!!!

[Seth82]

Mass Transit VS Mike Levy
BOOK IT!!!!!!

the "infamous" Mass Transit died like 8 yrs ago or more

[Xero]

So?

[FourFifty]

the "infamous" Mass Transit died like 8 yrs ago or more

So?

[Nark Order]

the "infamous" Mass Transit died like 8 yrs ago or more

So he lost the Death Match then?

[Boondock Saint]

the 3rd annual IWA-Mid South Queen of the Deathmatch Tournament that took place in the parking lot of Alley Cats Lanes bowling alley




lol

[Seth82]

So he lost the Death Match then?

I would think so

[Testicle]

I would like to thank Kareru for posting that video and thus proving all of our points.

[Inadequacy]

People in that video were saying that was the greatest moment of their lives.

I'd be excited too if I got to see the missing link in person. Yes sirree that Mickie Knuckles sure is a great discovery for the scientific community.

She looks like an ape is the emotion I'm trying to express.

[kareru]

I would like to thank Kareru for posting that video and thus proving all of our points.

and how exactly did it prove YOUR point?

[Nark Order]

Death match wrestling is the red headed step child of professional wrestling, which is already the red headed step child of the entertainment industry.

[Xero]

So it's like the retarded cousin who your aunt forced on your mother.

[Nark Order]

So it's like the retarded cousin who your aunt forced on your mother.

:naughty:

[Indifferent Clox]

so it's like if luke went to the dark side with vader and fucked Leia?