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Old 07-29-2009, 12:21 AM   #1
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So the Kareru thread had me thinking...
What does it mean anymore to be a pro wrestler?

Can I throw on a pair of gym shorts and stab myself with a needle and call myself a wrestler, do I even need to go to a school and get training? Or can I subject myself to unnecissary acts of violence, is that all it takes?

Are guys like Nick Mondo pro wrestlers?

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Old 07-29-2009, 12:41 AM   #2
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even death match wrestler have wrestling training dude
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:43 AM   #3
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What serious wrestling school would train those bozo's
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:45 AM   #4
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:45 AM   #5
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Where do I sign up for the class on getting stabbed with scissors?
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:46 AM   #6
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:56 AM   #7
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Yeah czw guys are pro wrestlers but to me deathmatches are like the dark side.
They are using their abilities to make the sport look awful imo.
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:04 AM   #8
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D'VON! GET THE FUCKING SYRINGES!
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Old 07-29-2009, 02:03 AM   #9
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D'VON! GET THE FUCKING SYRINGES!
It was bound to happen.

Anyway, I admit I've seen some great matches from CZW, but I don't think that they outweigh the garbage that I've seen from them, and other promotions like them.
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Old 07-29-2009, 02:08 AM   #10
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They are using their abilities to make the sport look awful imo.
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Old 07-29-2009, 03:03 AM   #11
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The dissapointing thing is that CZW, have had some decent talent come through their doors. But they are more known for the garbage stuff, and from what I can tell, almost 2 seperate rosters for CZW.

Those who can wrestle and those that can't (the latter do the garbage matches)
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Old 07-29-2009, 07:25 AM   #12
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Yeah czw guys are pro wrestlers but to me deathmatches are like the dark side.
They are using their abilities to make the sport look awful imo.
I think WWE hurt the business public image more than these guys ever did. What these guys do is on a small scale.
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Old 07-29-2009, 08:18 AM   #13
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Some CZW matches can be quite good when it doesn't involve shit loads of weapons etc.

I was watching The Wrestler with my mum and during the Ram Robinson/Necro Butcher match I was so embarrassed, and kept telling my mum like "These guys are fucking idiots, wrestling isn't usually like this, but there's a few companies that do stupid things like this".
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:46 PM   #14
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anyway when you get untrained wrestlers in death matches you get

The Mike Levy Incident.

During the 3rd annual IWA-Mid South Queen of the Deathmatch Tournament that took place on June 21, 2008 in the parking lot of Alley Cats Lanes bowling alley in Sellersburg, Indiana. Mickie Knuckles took on "The White Lion" Mike Levy.

Mike Levy was an untrained wrestler who through the internet made it known that he wanted to be in the deathmatch tourney, the false hype by a few wrestling message boards led Ian Rotten to fly out Levy and add him to the womens tourney as a joke.

Levy was set to take on former champion Mickie Knuckles, as she made her way to the ring, Ian met her on the entrance way and whispered something to her. It is unknown for sure but belived to be something pertaining to the match ahead.

The match started off with Mickie laying on the offence hard with stiff hits and the use of weapons. At one point Levy attempted to block a move and return some offence of his own. However his inexperience caused it to be very awkward leading Mickie to become angry.

Both Knuckles and Levy began to stiff each other with various hits throughout the match.

After Knuckles won the match both Devon Moore and Tank ran into the ring and cut a promo on how Levy needs to learn how to sell. The crowd began chanting for Levy’s finisher The Curb Stomp. So tank held levy’s head over a barbed wire ladder and Devon came off the top rope with a double stomp that drove Levy’s head hard into the ladder.

As if that wasn’t enough, Tank climbed to the second rope and let his much larger size come crashing down from the second rope, wrapping Levy’s head around the ladder in a sickening fashion.

After this Levy tried to escape as Devon, Ian Rotten, and others continued to beat him down. Devon and Rotten took turns insulting him, telling him that he needs to “learn how to sell”

Even Ian Rotten’s young son got into the fight by beating a grounded Levy with a Kendo Stick, and later kicking him. The child can even be seen asking “daddy” if its alright to hit him.

Lastly Ian Rotten got on the mic and explained how Mickie has a national tv deal, but because of his inexperience she now has a giant knot on her head (which may have been caused by her vicious headbutts from earlier in the match).

The extent of Levy’s injuries (if any) are currently unknown.


Ian Rotten = total asshole
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:53 PM   #15
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The Mike Levy Incident from Tomm on Vimeo.



and no, i didn't like this at all, this wasn't a match, it was near enough attempted murder
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Old 07-29-2009, 02:48 PM   #16
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I really don't understand your point kareru. Are you defending garbage wrestling or what?
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Old 07-29-2009, 03:01 PM   #17
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I really don't understand your point kareru. Are you defending garbage wrestling or what?
my point is even 'garbage' wrestlers are trained
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Old 07-29-2009, 03:17 PM   #18
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So you are saying John Cena was trained? lol
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Old 07-29-2009, 03:22 PM   #19
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Yeah, they should all be fucking sued and charged with battery.
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Old 07-29-2009, 03:25 PM   #20
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my point is even 'garbage' wrestlers are trained
Hitler went to art school before he set out to exterminate the Jews.
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Old 07-29-2009, 03:26 PM   #21
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my point is even 'garbage' wrestlers are trained
As you just showed a video of Mike Levy, an untrained wrestler, in a deathmatch.
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Old 07-29-2009, 03:27 PM   #22
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He was trained in his yard. With some tards.
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Old 07-29-2009, 03:32 PM   #23
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As you just showed a video of Mike Levy, an untrained wrestler, in a deathmatch.
didn't you read the first post?

the video is to show what happens to untrained death match wrestlers
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Old 07-29-2009, 03:33 PM   #24
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Hitler went to art school before he set out to exterminate the Jews.
nice unrelated fact, got anymore?
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Old 07-29-2009, 03:38 PM   #25
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The problem is, using Mike Levy as an example to show that death match wrestlers are actually well trained isn't exactly a good idea. What happened to Mike Levy has less to do with him being untrained, and more to do with everyone else in that clip being a fucking douche' bag and horrible fucking people.

All the training and skills in the world, in my opinion, does not justify what they do as wrestling to me. If Bryan Danielson started throwing suplexes through glass, and rubbing a guys face in thumbtacks while doing a Cattle Mutilation on a regular basis, I would say the same thing about him... It's fucking stupid. No amount of skill will make me respect this type of death match wrestling. The only time I can remotely understand shit like that is in long standing, heated feuds (See: Jimmy Jacobs vs BJ Whitmer cage match, and even they didn't go anywhere near the level of some of that shit.)

So yeah, if you like it, whatever, but honestly, I equate it to watching videos of cat accidents online.
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:00 PM   #26
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WRESTLING IS AN ART FORM.

The ART in wrestling is working with your partner(s) in a match making things look like they hurt, without actually causing injury.

Thus far Kareru, any example you have given does not fall within any of the realms of this, what you are giving examples of, in both threads, are quasi snuff films that do not try to portray the art of wrestling, instead it purely shows that there's a pretty sick minority market out there that pay money to see other human beings get disfigured. I just cannot see anyway how this can be defended
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:30 PM   #27
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I THINK Kareru was trying to make a point about the violence itself being the art when he compared it to the Indonesians.
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:49 PM   #28
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its meant to provoke an emotion whether its ' oh wow that's so cool' or 'omg that is so sick it should be banned' and its done well
you shouldnt worry about the people that think its cool
its the guys that whip out their cocks and beat off to it you need to worry about
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Old 07-29-2009, 05:37 PM   #29
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Well you're right in that it does provoke emotions. But as Dave Youell stated above, the aim of professional wrestling and the art in that is NOT to legitimately injure your opponent. You can have things like chairs and ladders and stuff thrown into the mix, but you take precautions to protect your opponent and work the spot in the safest way possible. Once you start jabbing each other with scissors, it's not a wrestling match.

As I said before, anything can be art and anyone can be an artist because the terms are so vague. That doesn't mean that everything involving art or its creation is good or has any kind of standards of quality. But that is a bit beside the point. Are the twenty people at ringside screaming for blood really there for a cultural enlightenment, or do they just want to drink beer and see blood?
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Old 07-29-2009, 06:22 PM   #30
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Can't help but agree with everyone with the same opinion as thedamndest and Dave. This so called 'hardcore wrestling' is nothing but sideshow garbage. And is more comparable to what you can see on rotten.com than actual professional wrestling.

My limit on hardcore wrestling is along the lines of the old ECW, or the WWF's old hardcore division. Tables, ladders, chairs, stop signs. All used in the right places, and used in a way that limits how much damage is done to the reciever and to increase the visual impact.

As has been stated, stabbing people with a needle, scissors or slamming through glass tubes is not wrestling just because it is in a ring, sprinkled with a few wrestling moves.
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Old 07-29-2009, 06:37 PM   #31
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I think when Kurt angle slammed Shane through glass it was cool.

Like WWKD said COlt Cabana HOmicide/ bj whitmer jimmyjacobs

Even BJPW Garbage was ok

but hypodermic needles? Weedwackers
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Old 07-29-2009, 06:43 PM   #32
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I think when Kurt angle slammed Shane through glass it was cool.
The Shane/Angle thing was fine, because it was a spot. If memory serves me correctly, they didn't go on to powerbomb each other through barbwire c4 tables and staple each others eyes out.
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:37 PM   #33
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FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
Mass Transit VS Mike Levy
BOOK IT!!!!!!
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:40 PM   #34
Seth82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FourFifty View Post
Mass Transit VS Mike Levy
BOOK IT!!!!!!
the "infamous" Mass Transit died like 8 yrs ago or more
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:41 PM   #35
Xero
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So?
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:47 PM   #36
FourFifty
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FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)FourFifty got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth82 View Post
the "infamous" Mass Transit died like 8 yrs ago or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
So?
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:55 PM   #37
Nark Order
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth82 View Post
the "infamous" Mass Transit died like 8 yrs ago or more
So he lost the Death Match then?
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Old 07-29-2009, 10:28 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kareru View Post

the 3rd annual IWA-Mid South Queen of the Deathmatch Tournament that took place in the parking lot of Alley Cats Lanes bowling alley

lol
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Old 07-29-2009, 10:49 PM   #39
Seth82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
So he lost the Death Match then?
I would think so
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Old 07-29-2009, 10:51 PM   #40
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I would like to thank Kareru for posting that video and thus proving all of our points.
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