MLB 2009-2010 Off Season Thread

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Brandon Lyon to the Astros for 3 years, $15 million

Also a report that the Red Sox have sent 3B Mike Lowell to the Rangers in exchange for catching prospect Max Ramirez. The Sox are sending $9 million of the $12 million remaining on Lowell's deal...so they pretty much just purchased a top 100 prospect from the Rangers.</font>

[ClockShot]

Braves trade Rafael Soriano to the Rays for Jesse Chavez.

Blue Jays sign Joey Gathright.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Rule 5 draft right now.

I'm thinking the Mets will probably take somebody, as they have an open spot on the 40-man roster so for a big market team it's a worthwhile chance.

Blew up in their face last year though. They got Darren O'Day, had to DFA him around 2 weeks into the season for a spot start from Nelson Figueroa...the Angels ddidn't want him back, and so he gets picked up by the Rangers and has a great year.</font>

[ClockShot]

Yanks are gonna pick Dodgers prospect Jamie Hoffman in the Rule 5. He's an outfielder.

I guess he'll fill the void now left by AJax.

[Evil Vito]

Yanks are gonna pick Dodgers prospect Jamie Hoffman in the Rule 5. He's an outfielder.

I guess he'll fill the void now left by AJax.

<font color=goldenrod>I dunno, he'd have to impress big time to stick with the 25-man roster all season...especially on a loaded team.</font>

[Splaya]

So the Tigers are pursuing Juan Pierre and Scott Posednik. The only hold up is that the Dodgers want an eatings inning starter, and obviously Jeremy Bonderman, Dontrelle Willis and Nate Robertson are none of those

[SammyG]

Yeah, smart move by LA. we need pitchers desperately now.

[Dragon]

Why? I'm really not afraid of the Angels much anymore. They will lose quite a few of their young guys to get Halladay and without Lackey or Chone Figgins I think the Yankees should be fine.

Yeah, I'm really not that worried if Halladay goes to the Angels. They're losing Figgins, Vlad, Lackey and presumably one of their other starters (Weaver, Santana, Saunders) if they get Halladay.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Francesa just reported that before Meetings end at 3PM today the Mets are making an offer to Molina (as expected) and are also planning a "major" offer for Jason Bay.

I feel kinda leery about Bay, and I'm not entirely sure why. I'm sure he'll be cheaper than Holliday...but I don't think he will produce as much.

Also according to his "sources"...the Mets feel they will be able to compete for Roy Halladay, even if they do sign Bay.

Finally excited to see some life from Omar at the meetings, if nothing else.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Just fantasizing a little here:

Reyes leading off, Castillo 2nd, Bay/Beltran/Wright in some order from 3-5, Francoeur OR Molina 6th, Murphy 7th to split the righty swing-and-miss guys, 8th for the other of Molina/Francoeur

Then a rotation of Santana followed up by Halladay or Lackey

Would be a fucking fantastic offseason...not gonna get my hopes up though</font>

[Dragon]

<font color=goldenrod>Francesa just reported that before Meetings end at 3PM today the Mets are making an offer to Molina (as expected) and are also planning a "major" offer for Jason Bay.

I feel kinda leery about Bay, and I'm not entirely sure why. I'm sure he'll be cheaper than Holliday...but I don't think he will produce as much.

Also according to his "sources"...the Mets feel they will be able to compete for Roy Halladay, even if they do sign Bay.

Finally excited to see some life from Omar at the meetings, if nothing else.</font>

Well Holliday is just the all around better player. Bay's defense is atrocious (been listening to Francesa too much when I keep saying atrocious). If I was the Mets I'd just go all in for Holliday. It seems like a lot of teams are scared by his demands but I think in the long run he'd be a much better investment than Bay. At least in the AL some team can hide Bay at DH in a couple years.

[Dragon]

According to fangraphs, the last two years Bay has had values of -13.0 and -18.4 on defense. Made up for it with values of around +33 on offense both years but in CitiField I'm sure those defensive numbers will get even worse.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah, think I'd definitely prefer Holliday if it the Mets' big offseason splash was going to be one of them along with midline starting pitchers. BUT that being said, if getting Bay is the only way to shore up the offense while assuring they'll still have a great chance at getting Halladay or Lackey, it's worth it.</font>

[Heros Welcome]

If it take says 5 years 80 mil to land Bay, and then if the market comes down and lowers the price of Lackey and he can be hand for 75-80 mil, having those 2 and spending a total of 160 mil as opposed to spending maybe 110 on Holliday for 6-7 years, and settling for Jason Marquis as your #2 then Bay and Lackey are clearly the better option.

[Heros Welcome]

I mean don't get me wrong, I believe Holliday is a more well rounded player, but you do have to wonder what he would be like in NY and in Citi. Bay has proven he can play in a pressure cooker like Boston so the transfer to NY shouldn't be that much of a problem. Also take in Holliday is a more gap oriented hitter whos power is to right center, which is hell for the met player in this stadium *see David Wright* Where as Bay is a raw power type hitter who favors hitting more down the line and that plays into the mets and his advantage at Citi.

But the key here is still pitching. If we land Molina and Bay thats great, but we should still push hard in the Lackey market, because as good as the offense may look with those 2 in it, the name of the game is pitching. Outside of Santana (coming off elbow surgery) we have nothing to be satisfied with.

[Emperor Smeat]

According to fangraphs, the last two years Bay has had values of -13.0 and -18.4 on defense. Made up for it with values of around +33 on offense both years but in CitiField I'm sure those defensive numbers will get even worse.

Was the Green Monster in Fenway factored into the -5 drop in the 2nd year since that tends to mess around with certain plays based on where the ball hits the wall.

[Triple Naitch]

Can't get over how bad ESPN's baseball coverage is nowadays. MLB Network has all the great analysts (Reynolds, Plesac, Larkin) and reporters (Heyman, Rosenthal, and soonly Gammons), while ESPN has nobody (Kurkjian). Wouldn't be surprised to see Baseball Tonight take a hit this season.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Ughhhhhh Tom Verducci says the Phillies are officially the favorites to get Halladay, and are doing everything they can, including asking other teams to jump in on a deal to get players the Blue Jays might want. Says he'd be surprised to not see a deal done.

Like I said earlier...if they get Halladay, I can't help but feel like they would have to try really hard to NOT win the division. I can't see everybody there having a down year, so I'd have to hope for injuries. :o Come on, somebody else step up the offer please.</font> :(

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Oh yeah, and the general consensus is that the Mets' offer to Jason Bay...4 years, $65 million, barely more than what the Red Sox offered...was a posturing move to show the fans that they are trying. Not coincidentally, the offer comes after it is reported that season ticket sales are coming in far more slowly this year.

At least this year is win-win...either win on the field, or Omar is canned.</font> :shifty:

[ClockShot]

Damn, it got quiet after the meetings.

Anyway, J.J. Putz signs with the White Sox. 1-year, $3 mil.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Fuck, was really hoping the Mets could bring Putz back and try to salvage something out of that failed deal.

I suppose they still can if Sean Green has a good full year with his new delivery.</font>

[Hanso Amore]

Can't get over how bad ESPN's baseball coverage is nowadays. MLB Network has all the great analysts (Reynolds, Plesac, Larkin) and reporters (Heyman, Rosenthal, and soonly Gammons), while ESPN has nobody (Kurkjian). Wouldn't be surprised to see Baseball Tonight take a hit this season.

I miss the old Ravech, Kruk, Reynolds and Gammons baseball tonight circa 2001ish.

[Heros Welcome]

I miss the old Ravech, Kruk, Reynolds and Gammons baseball tonight circa 2001ish.

The days when baseball tonight kicked ass. But yeah its all about the MLB Network now. Anything with HR on it gets my ratings.

[Dragon]

Apparently the Yanks and Damon are $34M apart in negotiations. Yanks are offering 18M for 2 years and Damon wants 52M for 4 years.

Bye Johnny.

[Dragon]

The Yankees just need to give Damon and Boras a deadline and move on if they don't come down (a lot) from that ridiculous asking price.

[ClockShot]

Cashman was on Francesa this afternoon.

The gist of it was that a budget is in place and that he's not gonna go over it, period. So really, if Damon and Matsui are gonna have to take what they are offered, or go elseware. No negotiations, or nothing.

[Innovator]

Yankees won't be willing to offer 4 years to Damon, let alone that price, fucking ridiculous

[Triple Naitch]

Damon has no leverage either after they got Granderson. They don't necessarily need him to come back.

[Hardkore Kidd J]

We don't really need Damon. But, I think we should do the Halladay approach. Right now I think the Yankees are just holding tight and waiting for Toronto to lower their asking price and as time goes by Toronto may get desperate and trade him for less. Now, with Damon we should just kick back and wait.

Remember Johnny Damon was the same person who initially asked for six or 7 years before he joined the Yankees.

I think we could hold tight and as time goes by sign Damon for less.

[ClockShot]

Some sucker will fire Damon a contract. He's gonna have to take something cheap sooner or later. See Bobby Abreu last year.

Barry Bonds says he's done with baseball. Buy or Sell?

[Emperor Smeat]

He's basically been "blacklisted" from the MLB and hasn't played in 2 years, he's going to retire. San Francisco has basically been rebuilding last 2 years and don't want him.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I wouldn't mind the Pirates bringing him in. The history is there, the Pirates don't have anything else to do, and it'd give Bonds that one chance to prove he can hit when he's clean.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Never gonna happen of course

[ClockShot]

Heard on the FAN that Chien-Ming Wang is gonna get non tendered.

Pretty sad. Really great sinkerballer and back to back 19 game winner. If it wasn't for that stupid interleague game where he fucked his foot up rounding 3rd.

After that, it all went south.

I'll admit, I'm gonna miss the guy.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>A mystery team offered Jason Bay 5 years. I'm guessing it's the Mariners</font>

[Heros Welcome]

My guess is the Giants, as he said even with an offer from them he wouldn't go. So I'm guessing they threw the offer out there incase all else fails for Bay he has no choice but to accept.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Some decent players added to the free agent pool. Matt Capps is probably the most intriguing. I'd love to see him brought in for 8th inning duty.</font>

[dablackguy]

<font color=goldenrod>Oh yeah, and the general consensus is that the Mets' offer to Jason Bay...4 years, $65 million, barely more than what the Red Sox offered...was a posturing move to show the fans that they are trying. Not coincidentally, the offer comes after it is reported that season ticket sales are coming in far more slowly this year.

At least this year is win-win...either win on the field, or Omar is canned.</font> :shifty:

This is why I'm so fucking sick of this team.

If you don't want to spend the money, don't spend it, fine. But spend intelligently on what you do spend.

Don't wanna give Holliday 23 mil a year, fine, give Guerrero 2 @ 20 and put him in LF

Don't wanna give Lackey Burnett-type money or go beyond 3 years? Fine, then where the fuck were you on Rich Harden? Ben Sheets?

Stop wasting time, why would Bay leave somewhere where he's played well and fits in to come to a place where he needs to be a savior. And for 4 million more? Pfft. This is why we're second rate in this town.

If Omar doesn't see fit to spend his money wisely, I see no reason to spend my money on a ticket to Citi this year.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I dunno. Bay seems to still be considering it, which is a good sign. I also get the sense that the Mets would be willing to add in a 5th year if absolutely necessary, or a 5th year option.

The main thing I'm intrigued about is that the Mets' offer is backloaded so that they can still try and land Lackey, and then pay Bay the majority of his money in the latter two (or if it's a five-year deal, three) years...by which point Perez, Castillo, and Beltran will all be off the books. So they seem willing to pay...but their biggest problem is selling the free agents that coming to the Mets is a good idea.

Several notable writers (Gammons and Rosenthal come to mind immediately with a ton of backhanded comments from each) have been hinting that a lot of players don't view the Mets as contenders...which I think is pretty ridiculous and, if true, suggests that they merely looked at their W-L record last year, and not at the injury reports.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Well, word is going around that Lackey is taking a physical with the Red Sox today. Typically that's a sign he's agreed to a contract with them :o Fuck...so much for getting Bay AND Lackey</font>

[Heros Welcome]

With Lackey possibly being locked up by the Sox, and there saying they want to work an extension with Beckett. You then have Beckett Lackey and Lester for the long haul, with Dice K and Wakefield in the back end.

This could very well open the door to the Padres and Sox making a deal involving Bucholz and A Gon. And with that as a possibility I expect the Yanks to call up the Jays and say "what do you want for Halladay"

[ClockShot]

Hideki Matsui looks like he's going to the Angels. 1-year, $6.5 mil. :'(

Wow. Didn't think Public Enemy #2 in the empire would swoop in and pick him up. Wonder if they're gonna force him to play the outfield?

If this goes down, the Johnny Damon situation with us got alot more interesting.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Lackey's deal with Boston is 5 years, $85 million

Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia, and the Phillies are discussing a three-way blockbuster that would see them acquiring Halladay while also sending Cliff Lee to a third team, with both squads sending prospects to Toronto.

As much as I'd hate seeing Roy on the Phillies...at least Lee would be gone.</font>

[ClockShot]

So the Phillies would be picking up Halladay for a 1-year rental, and some sucker team is gonna get Lee for a 1-year rental.

Pretty lousy exchange if you ask me. Unless Halladay asks for an extension before he approves the trade.

[Loose Cannon]

ughhhh, are you fucking kidding me with Lackey. I hate the guy enough.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>The Phillies wouldn't make the move unless they planned on spending whatever necessary to extend Roy...if not now, then at the end of the year.

If Roy's gonna wind up a Phillie though...this is how I want it to happen. Like I said, Roy AND Lee in the same rotation would be enough to shut down the rest of the East with their offense. But if Lee's gonna be going it's not all that bad.

Plus who knows...if Roy isn't demanding an extension now, he could still walk on his own.</font>

[ClockShot]

Lackey, Beckett, Lester, Matsuzaka, and Wakefield.

That's a scary rotation we'll be looking at for 18 games.

[Dragon]

And the Blue Jays get screwed again with their first round pick.

[Dragon]

Lackey, Beckett, Lester, Matsuzaka, and Wakefield.

That's a scary rotation we'll be looking at for 18 games.

Not gonna be too worried unless the Lackey signing is followed by a trade for Adrian Gonzalez or something.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>The trade has now been agreed to. Halladay to Phillies, Lee to Mariners, not sure who to Jays yet.</font>

[McLegend]

Keep Lee Bros.

Poor form.

[McLegend]

I want Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay on the same team.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Apparently the Blue Jays called the Mets right before making the deal...and basically said "We're about to trade him to the Phillies, unless you give us Reyes"

Fucking cocks.</font>

[screech]

I want Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay on the same team.

:y:

[Dragon]

Felix and Lee is a great 1-2 combo. Mariners should be the favorites in the West unless the Angels do something.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Damn, listening to these calls on Francesa right now...I feel like they don't even realize that Lee was traded in the deal. People are saying the Mets shouldn't even bother trying...which is ridiculous.

There's still a chance Halladay winds up being a failure when he's on a team that actually has a chance of competing. Not saying it's gonna happen...but still.</font>

[SammyG]

So wait. what was the actual deal that went down

[McLegend]

Halladay is really good obviously, but is he better then Cliff Lee?

Also is he better then Cliff Lee in a contract year? This might end up making me mad.

[McLegend]

So wait. what was the actual deal that went down

On the radio I am hearing.

Blue Jays get 3 Canadien pitching prospects from the Mariners.
Mariners get Clifton Phifer Lee
Phillies get Roy Halladay.

[Emperor Smeat]

Toronto gets : Not announced yet
Philadelphia gets : Roy Halladay
Seattle gets : Cliff Lee

The other big deal was Lackey to Red Sox for 5 years pending results of physical.

Edit: Nevermind McLegend got the list out faster

[Emperor Smeat]

Looking at the trade, Mariners benefited the most since Cliff Lee was a beast in the playoffs and most of the year with the Phillies and has A.L. pitching experience.

[Dragon]

Phillippe Aumont and Michael Taylor going to the Jays.

[Dragon]

So the Phillies give up Lee and Taylor to get Halladay? I dunno, I understand why they did it, because they wanted an ace guaranteed to be there after this year and apparently Halladay is willing to sign an extension and Lee wasn't. But still seems to be a lot to give up and doesn't vastly improve their team this year.

[McLegend]

I don't like it. Even if Roy Halladay wins 30 games and the Cy Young how does that help you beat the Yankees or the Red Sox?

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>There has to be more than just that, surely. Neither team parts with any top prospects? Yet they were asking the Mets for REYES? wtf</font>

[Dragon]

I think there's more guys going to Toronto from the Mariners. Those two names were the only ones mentioned so far though.

[screech]

Halladay is amazing, don't get me wrong, but he has been amazing in the regular season. Lee has proven himself to be very good in both regular season and post-season play (though only once).

Not sure about this one yet. Yes he has dominated good teams (Yankees, Red Sox), but he hasn't done it when it truly matters. I guess I'll have to wait and see with this one.

[Emperor Smeat]

Neither team did give away quality prospects but they did have to give away their #1 starters that are equal or have more value than most set of prospects teams could afford to trade.

If the trade didn't involve Cliff Lee, there would have been more prospects traded away.

[screech]

On the other side (one of), the Mariners are looking great now. If they can land Bay, that division will be good again.

[Dragon]

I don't like it. Even if Roy Halladay wins 30 games and the Cy Young how does that help you beat the Yankees or the Red Sox?

Yeah, I just don't see how Halladay could do much more than Lee did in the playoffs last year.

[Dragon]

Neither team did give away quality prospects but they did have to give away their #1 starters that are equal or have more value than most set of prospects teams could afford to trade.

If the trade didn't involve Cliff Lee, there would have been more prospects traded away.

Well I assume the Mariners are giving up more prospects than one for Cliff Lee though.

[Dragon]

On the other side (one of), the Mariners are looking great now. If they can land Bay, that division will be good again.

If the Mariners land Bay they'd have to be the big favorites in the division.

I mean just today the Angels lost their two big pitching targets in Lackey and Halladay, and have already lost Figgins earlier.

[screech]

and have already lost Figgins earlier.

to the Mariners, no less

[McLegend]

Now there are rumors that it was Blanton and Happ were traded along with prospects and not Lee.

So who knows now.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>God I hope not</font>

[Loose Cannon]

Halladay NOOOOOOOOOOOOO :'(

[screech]

Now there are rumors that it was Blanton and Happ were traded along with prospects and not Lee.

So who knows now.

I wouldn't be too upset if Blanton and say, Drabek went to Seattle if it means keeping Lee. Though I'm almost certain if Lee isn't a part of the deal, Happ will be.

Thing about Lee is, Seattle probably wouldn't be able to offer him his extension because they want to lock up Felix. So it wouldn't be worth it to just rent Lee for a year.

[FakeLaser]

Stupid ass deal, but at least Halladay is out of the AL East and not on the Red Sox because we never beat him. Halladay is a better pitcher than Lee but really by how much at this point? Lee's 2 years younger and has proven himself in the playoffs. Halladay is beastly and eats innings and doesn't seem affected by any pressure situations but this doesn't really make the Phillies any better. Mariners are the big winners, King Felix and Cliff Lee pretty much becomes the strongest 1-2 punch in the AL now.

[Hanso Amore]

Thats....it? Jays gave him away for 3 pitching prospects....are they top notch?

Santana got WAY more value.

[FakeLaser]

Now there are rumors that it was Blanton and Happ were traded along with prospects and not Lee.

So who knows now.
That would make a lot more fucking sense

[FakeLaser]

Red Sox got Lackey? Big deal

[screech]

Halladay has never been in pressure situations, FakeRazor. He could be phenomenal, but no one knows that at this point, which makes the deal questionable (though the matter of contract extensions helps rationalize it).

[FakeLaser]

And what, Matsui to the Angels?

shouldn't have let him go. Juan Miranda mehhhhhhh

I think we sign a low risk high reward DH

[FakeLaser]

Halladay has never been in pressure situations, FakeRazor. He could be phenomenal, but no one knows that at this point, which makes the deal questionable (aside from the matter of contract extensions).
He has pitched his entire career in the AL East and has ridiculous numbers. He never pitches against any beer league softball teams like there are in the NL and he's always matched up with team's number 1s and 2s. I know he hasn't pitched in the playoffs yet, but that to me is a profile of a pitcher who isn't phased by anything.

[ClockShot]

So the Phils get Halladay, Mariners get Lee, and the Blue Jays get a boat load of prospects.

Red Sox sign Lackey.

And HazMat is probably going to LAA.

Good and bad day for some people.

Wondering if Lee and Halladay are gonna get extensions.

And I guess it's safe to say Ichiro opened his mouth and told the front office to kick ass this offseason.

[screech]

Halladay will (I think that's actually part of him waiving his no-trade clause).

Not so sure on Lee, as I said already.

[ClockShot]

An update.

Halladay is ready to sign a 3-year, $60 mil. extension with a 1-2 years in unknown options.

Lee, on the other hand, wants top dollar what he would get as a free agent.

And fuck, Mike Cameron is in "serious talks" with Boston.

[Droford]

Thats....it? Jays gave him away for 3 pitching prospects....are they top notch?

Santana got WAY more value.

Erik Bedard got more for the Os. Im really surprised the Mariners are going to trade the farm again for a pitcher.

[FakeLaser]

Biggest transaction of the day is A-Rod designating Kate Hudson for assignment

[Triple Naitch]

Not real excited about Cameron going to the Sox. Unless it means they spend their resources on getting Adrian Gonzalez.

[screech]

I'm hoping either Holliday or Gonzalez goes to Boston.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Hopefully it's Holliday. Still leaves a slim chance that the Mets could make a run at A-Gon.

SS Reyes
2B Castillo
3B Wright
1B Gonzalez
LF Bay
CF Beltran
RF Francoeur
C Molina
P

Yeah...I can dream</font> :(

[McLegend]

Biggest transaction of the day is A-Rod designating Kate Hudson for assignment

Wish they did that 2 months ago.

[Triple Naitch]

A-Rod's making a run for Elin Woods. You heard it hear first. :roll:

[McLegend]

A-Rod's making a run for Elin Woods. You heard it hear first. :roll:

Could you imagine A-Rod showing up to like Fenway Park or wherever with Elin Woods by his side?

It really needs to happen.

[ClockShot]

I don't picture A-Rod as a father figure.

[Triple Naitch]

He is like the perfect jackass step-dad.

[ClockShot]

Mike Cameron to the Red Sox.

Blue Jays sign Ramon Castro to a 1-year, $1 mil. deal.

[Skippord]

whoa, some shenanigans today

[Triple Naitch]

So many fucking names being thrown around in the Halladay deal. Now they're saying Drabek is in. If the Blue Jays wind up with Dominic Brown/Michael Taylor, Brandon Morrow, Kyle Drabek, Carlos Triunfel, and J.A. Happ they may be the ultimate winner in this deal down the line.

[Dragon]

You gotta wonder what the market for Bay and Holliday is gonna be now. Boston seemed like the possible main suitor for either of them and now they have a full outfield. The Angels seem set in the OF. Thats two of the bigger teams essentially out of it.

[Triple Naitch]

I'm kind of hoping that Holliday just goes back to the Cardinals. He is a National League player and this is the place where he'll get the most production. I mean, is there any more comfortable spot in a batting order than batting behind or in front of Albert Pujols?

[FakeLaser]

So many fucking names being thrown around in the Halladay deal. Now they're saying Drabek is in. If the Blue Jays wind up with Dominic Brown/Michael Taylor, Brandon Morrow, Kyle Drabek, Carlos Triunfel, and J.A. Happ they may be the ultimate winner in this deal down the line.
That's a rape deal, no way they get all of that

[McLegend]

So many fucking names being thrown around in the Halladay deal. Now they're saying Drabek is in. If the Blue Jays wind up with Dominic Brown/Michael Taylor, Brandon Morrow, Kyle Drabek, Carlos Triunfel, and J.A. Happ they may be the ultimate winner in this deal down the line.

If all those names are thrown in then Lee has to stay in Philadelphia right?

[Triple Naitch]

If Lee doesn't go to the M's, then there is no point in them being involved in the deal in the first place.

[McLegend]

If Lee doesn't go to the M's, then there is no point in them being involved in the deal in the first place.

If you are giving Drabek away then Lee shouldn't be in the deal since he was untouchable in the summer.

No way they give all that away plus Lee.

[Triple Naitch]

I prefer the Phils not give up Drabek. He has a much higher ceiling than Happ. I'm just naming the guys who keep popping up as being added to the deal. Doubt all of them will wind of changing uniforms.

[McLegend]

I'll pack both of their bags if it means keeping Lee and getting Halladay.

[Triple Naitch]

Yeah, but I really don't see Lee staying in Philly in this deal. It's obvious the Mariners are going for the "win now" approach with this deal. Ichiro is getting older and his window of winning in Seattle is closing faster by the day.

[McLegend]

I know.

I'm just not giving up hope.

[Triple Naitch]

So now it seems that the Phils may be getting top M's pitching prospect Phillipe Aumont. Makes more sense now.

[Hanso Amore]

I doubt they get all that

Why would philly balk at trading Happ and Drabek and Brown only to turn around and give all 3 a few months later.

[ClockShot]

What the hell?

10 names being thrown around. I thought it was 1 guy here, 1 guy there, and 2-3 guys there.

[Loose Cannon]

wow, that's sick

[Triple Naitch]

From MLBTR

After going through several incarnations over the last 48 hours, the latest version of the deal has outfielder Michael Taylor, catching prospect Travis D'Arnaud, and a pitcher - either J.A. Happ or Kyle Drabek - going to Toronto, writes Stark (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4742072) in his latest update. Under this scenario, the Phillies would get to hang on to Domonic Brown and would recieve Phillippe Aumont.

[McLegend]

Man there is so many fuckin rumors about this trade. I have no idea what's going on.

[Heros Welcome]

10:12pm: Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun (via Twitter) has Toronto getting Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, and Travis D'Arnaud; Philly getting Roy Halladay and Phillippe Aumont; and the Mariners getting Cliff Lee, plus another piece (or, pieces).

[McLegend]

Why is Drabek so tradeable now?

I hate that trade.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Well, looks like the Cardinals are re-signing Holliday

A writer for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch says their offer is 8 years at $16 million per year. Holy fuck.

Guess that leaves only Bay.</font>

[Heros Welcome]

I really wanna know what the Mets will do now. I don't expect tickets to be selling at all now to be honest. This thought will probably lead Wilpon/Omar to making a dumb offer. Either over paying for Bay or wrapping up a dumb Pinero contract just to try and sell people to come out to the stadium. In this attempt they will fail miserably.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Red Sox signed that Boof guy, CHAMPIONSHIP

[YOUR Hero]

Halladay hates batting.

LOL. First thing I thought of when reading he was now a Phillie. He'll do great. :'(

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I'm not sure how many other options Bay is going to have but to sign with the Mets, tbh. The Red Sox have backed away from him, picked up Cameron, and now that they signed Lackey if they get another bat it'll probably be via trading Buccholz to San Diego for Gonzalez. The Angels just signed Matsui and are now focused on pitching. The Giants are interested but Bay has said he doesn't wanna play there. The Mariners have already spent a ton and I think want to save up in hopes of retaining Cliff Lee's services for more than just one year. And lastly, the Yankees have inquired (of course they have) but I don't see why they would offer him a 4/5 year deal...they'll probably wind up getting Damon once he realizes nobody's gonna give him 4 years

Despite the Cardinals' monster offer for Holliday, I don't think Bay expects his offers to go up THAT much. Mets might have to guarantee a 5th year, making it 5 years for around $70-75 million, but I think he'll take it.

Do I like the idea of a 35 year old Jason Bay patrolling left field in 2014 and making a good chunk of change? Of course not...but that's a long time from now and by then that will hopefully be the only bad contract on the team. I'm not too sure why Mets fans are so down on Bay. There seemed to be a mixed reaction when they made him an offer...but now that Lackey, Halladay, and most likely Holliday are off the board, everybody's like "OH BOY!!! JASON BAY!!!" He's the only choice left, and he's not a bad player...so deal with it. I'm not an Omar Minaya fan by any stretch, but sometimes he simply can't win with these fans.

Elsewhere, I still think the Mets are gonna get Bengie Molina. He keeps pushing for a multiyear deal, but as it gets closer and closer to spring training, I see him cracking and taking that 1 year deal with an option.

Likewise for some of the starters asking for way too much at this point. Even Ben Sheets wants a multiyear deal despite not pitching last year. I don't see it happening. I'd love for the Mets to sign him and Wang to 1-year, incentive-laden deals. Couple that with the fact that they offered a minor league deal to Kelvim Escobar. Not saying it'll happen, but could you imagine if all of them pitched to their fullest potential? They'd then have the best rotation in the NL...and it would leave at least two of the Pelfrey/Maine/Perez combo looking for other roles.

Bottom line is...they are gonna have to take a risk at some point here. I'd like to see it with the starting. Much better to get those guys for 1 year and hope for the best than to lock yourself into 3 or 4 years with Jason Marquis. And guess what...if it doesn't work out, it was only one season...and Omar getting canned would be seen as a consolation prize for Mets fans, anyway.</font>

[DaveWadding]

White Sox get:

OF Juan Pierre (2 yr./18.5 mil)
$10 million cash

Dodgers get:
2 PTBNL

DODGEEEEEEE SHOWWWWWWW

[SammyG]

Uh. Are you trying to talk shit when your team has been sucking the Dodgers' cock the last 2 years? Shut up. It's just like when you try to talk shit about the Lakers. Give me a break.

Also, gonna miss Pierre, he was a great team player. Sad that we gave Manny all that money to suck lately. I hope Pierre tears it up.

[DaveWadding]

let's see:

Signed a guy with a career 348 OBP to a backloaded 5 year / $45 million deal

Gave up on him a year and a half into it, making him the highest paid 4th OF in the league

Had the 2nd best statistical season of his career last year

Dodgers still have to pay him 10 million to play for the White Sox.

[Hanso Amore]

White Sox have the Highest Paid Average Outfield ever.

[Gertner]

Jays are reportedly flipping taylor to the A's for Brett Wallace.

[DaveWadding]

Gustavo Chacin signs minor league deal with the Astros.

He's STILL better than Joe Blanton.

:shifty:

[ClockShot]

Aroldis Chapman worked out in front of 15 teams in Houston today.

Also, that deal with Mike Lowell and the Rangers. Might not be happening after all.

[FakeLaser]

If the Jays pull this trade off The Anthropologist is the best GM ever

[Skippord]

it seems like the Mariners really got fucked

[Gertner]

Gustavo Chacin signs minor league deal with the Astros.

He's STILL better than Joe Blanton.

:shifty:

Chacin blew out his arm. What can ya do. lol at least I was right that Scott Downs was and is better than Chad Gaudin.

[Gertner]

Love the package that my Jays got. Drabek is a stud, D'Arnaud gives us a solid catching prospect not named Arencibia, flipping Taylor for Wallace is terrific as I like Wallace's bat more and they can hopefully turn him into a 1b like planned. A Jays rotation of Romero, Drabek, Cecil, Marcum and Rzepcinzski has me looking forward to the future.

[Hanso Amore]

I still have a soft spot for the jays. It always annoys me that they are honestly the 4th best team in the AL some years but they have no playoff hopes in the East. I would love to see the MLB playoffs expanded in numbers but shortened in length.

Run a NFL style with 3 Wildcards.

Top 2 seeds get a pass. Round one is a best of 5. Then continue on. Cut out all the spare days and it would take the same amount of time and it would freshen shit up.

[YOUR Hero]

The Halladay deal isn't put to bed yet. Makes me nervous.

Bay to the Jays?

They'll have the money, he's Canadian, he's said in the past he'd like to play there.

[McLegend]

The trade for Halladay I like. I have no problem giving up prospects for probably the best pitcher in baseball.

I still don't like and never will like trading Cliff Lee away.

[Dragon]

Apparently someone in the Halladay trade may have failed their physical which is why its not done yet.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Apparently it's not even a three-way trade, since nobody is exchanged between Seattle and Toronto...they are technically two separate trades.

Would be hilarious if everybody in the Lee trade passed their physicals and the league finalized it...but then the Halladay trade gets held up and the Phillies are left with no ace.</font> :shifty:

:(

[Loose Cannon]

lol that would be classic

[McLegend]

Or One of the Mariners prospects failed the physical and they end up having to keep Lee.

I'm going to think, and no one can stop me.

[McLegend]

Now what I'm hearing is Phillippe Aumont canceled the trade and or failed his pysical.

[Dragon]

Yeah, I don't even really understand why Seattle is needed or why the Phillies don't just keep Lee.

Phillies are sending Drabek and Taylor to Toronto. I think Travis d'Arnaud is from Seattle though right? So he's the only piece actually going from Seattle to Toronto. I don't know how big a prospect he is but Drabek and Taylor seem to be the big pieces. Seems really easy for the Phillies to just send one more piece and get Halladay for Drabek, Taylor and that final piece. And keep Lee.

[McLegend]

It's all money. They don't feel they can afford Lee and Halladay even for year. I would disagree with that.

So with this whole thing they think they can still be good now, and for the future with the prospects they would be getting from Seattle. Hence why the Halladay trade didn't happen in the Summer.

Hopefully this latest development is true and they keep Lee and Halladay.

[Loose Cannon]

Glen Jacobs failed his pysical.

[McLegend]

That makes sense since he is a fuck up.

[McLegend]

Cliff Lee has officially been traded

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>The Lee part is done...apparently gonna be a press conference at 5 PM though to announce Halladay being official.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>The entire deal is now official. Damn.</font>

[Loose Cannon]

Did you guys say anything about Cameron to Boston being official yet. I think it's done

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah Cameron and Lackey were officially unveiled today.

The Red Sox envision Cameron platooning in left with Hermida, while also filling in for Ellsbury and Drew. But I dunno...wouldn't shock me at all if Ellsbury goes with Buccholz to San Diego in the Adrian Gonzalez trade.

Hell, if the Mike Lowell-to-the-Rangers trade doesn't officially go through, I could see them sticking Youk out in left with Cameron in center full-time.

C Martinez
1B Gonzalez
2B Pedroia
SS Scutaro
3B Lowell
LF Youkilis
CF Cameron
RF Drew
DH Ortiz

Could be mad ridiculous.</font>

[Hanso Amore]

Why would you bench Elsbury for Cameron's broken down ass?

[Dragon]

In that situation Ellsbury would be on another team.

[FakeLaser]

I really don't think anyone is getting Adrian Gonzalez. The Padres have him under control the next 2 years at an average of like $4.7 million/year. If I were them I'd want Ellsbury, Bucholz, Jed Lowrie, Junchi Tazawa, Casey Kelly and Ted Williams

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I'm reading in some places that the Mets upped their offer for Bay to 5 years, $79 million.

I don't think it's that bad for what they need right now tbh. But of course, since it's the Mets everyone's like ROFL METS OVERPAYING FOR BAY!!!1111!!!</font>

[Dragon]

They are gonna regret that when he loses a step in the outfield and is more terrible than he is now at fielding though. Was reading an article that over the last 3 years Bay has been the 5th worst fielder in baseball. His offense will definitely help though.

If I was the Mets I still would have gone after Holliday and had Bay as my back-up option. Especially since they aren't getting any big money pitcher like Lackey.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I agree...Holliday is obviously better than Bay. There are whispers that the Mets are talking to Holliday again now that it turns out the deal the Cards offered him isn't as enormous.

The way I see it though, Bay is still good and is obviously being imported for his bat. Everybody knows it. Most teams have at least one shitty-fielding outfielder anyway, normally always in LF. I have a hard time making a huge deal about it, especially with Beltran and Francoeur covering the rest of the ground. Bay will prolly be crap in 2014, but by then it will hopefully be the only bad contract on the team.

Mets are also gonna keep an eye on Delgado and might offer him a cheap 1-year deal if he proves he's healthy in Winter Ball. I LOVE Daniel Murphy, but Ike Davis seems poised to take over in 2011 at 1B. I'm not entirely sure where Murphy fits in for the future. If a healthy Delgado can be had on the cheap for 1 year, I'd do it.

Reyes
Castillo
Bay, Beltran, Delgado, Wright in some order
Francoeur
Catcher

Can be a pretty nasty lineup.</font>

[Droford]

Sindey Ponson won Worst Pitcher of the Decade on ESPN..

at least he didn't do all of his sucking with the Orioles.

[ClockShot]

I just read on the ESPNEWS ticker that the Yanks are talking to Nick Johnson about a 1-year deal.

Last week $man was close to getting sainthood. Now he does this? I don't get it.

Oh, and Damon wants a multiyear, $13 mil per deal. Good luck getting that.

[Hanso Amore]

In that situation Ellsbury would be on another team.

Im retarded man, good call

[Hanso Amore]

I just read on the ESPNEWS ticker that the Yanks are talking to Nick Johnson about a 1-year deal.

Last week $man was close to getting sainthood. Now he does this? I don't get it.

Oh, and Damon wants a multiyear, $13 mil per deal. Good luck getting that.

If Nick comes cheap Ill take a 1 year deal for him to spell Teix and platoon at DH. Dude can still stroke it when he is healthy, maybe a DH role is i nthe cards for him.

[Hanso Amore]

Any word on where Chapman lands?

[Hanso Amore]

Also, Erik Bedard is an intriguing case. He could land somewhere and put of a decent year if he can stay healthy.

[Hanso Amore]

I just want to see the Yanks land a solid DH option. What about Delgado...He could tear it up in the new park, might come cheap, and a move to DH could help him as well.

[Dragon]

Damon would still be my first option at DH. But not if his demands keep being ridiculous.

I wouldn't mind having Nick back but if they wanted someone who couldn't play anywhere but DH why didn't Cashman go after Matsui? Matsui was the best strictly DH option out there.

[Triple Naitch]

Orioles moving fast agreeing to terms with Garrett Atkins and Mike Gonzalez.

[Skippord]

Why would you bench Elsbury for Cameron's broken down ass?
because Mike Cameron isn't broken down

[FakeLaser]

Mike Cameron is a good player, very consistent

He was broken down like 5 years ago yes

[FakeLaser]

Aroldis Chapman is going to be a huge bust

[Droford]

Orioles moving fast agreeing to terms with Garrett Atkins and Mike Gonzalez.

Atkins can play 1B/3B and should be a good stop gap for one year til Brandon Snyder and Josh Bell are ready, and even then they could still keep him.

Mike Gonzalez is interesting..dont think he's closer material but a solid bullpen arm is nice to have.

The Os are also supposedly the other team with Boston in the Adrian Gonzalez sweepstakes BUT the Padres want Adam Jones and Brian Matusz at a minimum from the Os (Buchholz and Ellsbury from Boston)..dont wanna give up Adam Jones..and apparently the Os boards dont wanna give up Matusz so..I dunno. They could use that bat..he would fn rake the ball at Camden Yards..

[Skippord]

Garrett Atkins rules

hope he's successful in Baltimore

[SammyG]

who the fuck is jamey carroll and why did we sign him.

[Skippord]

Jamey Carrol was on the 2007 Rockies team

pretty good utility guy.

hit the sac fly in the play in game too

[Splaya]

Interesting move by the Orioles. They were the front runners, along with the Phillies, to acquire Fernando Rodney

[Droford]

They're also interested in Matt Capps.

They need a closer and pretty much a whole new bullpen, but it wont be like a couple years ago (07) when they blew about $42 million on Dannys Baez, Scott Williamson, Chad Bradford and Jamie Walker(BOY!)...

[Skippord]

I read the Rockies want Matt Capps also

[Splaya]

I also think that's a great pickup by the O's on Atkins

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Mets and Reds are reportedly in serious discussion. The Mets initially called about Bronson Arroyo, but it is believed they are pursuing two other players from there as well. Hmm.</font>

[Heros Welcome]

Vito, where you reading this about the Mets and Reds?

[Splaya]

LOL the Mets are so trading for Brandon Phillips

[Splaya]

BTW I am just speculating

[Heros Welcome]

Thats a bad thing? I would have a big smile on my face if we brought in Phillips.

[Evil Vito]

http://www.baseballdigest.com/2009/12/17/metsreds-talk-bay-may-cost-six-years-more/

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>While I'd love Phillips, I can't see the Reds unloading him just yet. He's only making slightly more than Luis Castillo (who I'm assuming the Reds would be bringing in for some reason).

Think they'd have to be overwhelmed.</font>

[Heros Welcome]

Interesting to say the least. I feel Bronson is just as good if not better than the people left on the market. Fly ball pitcher hurts him in Cincy, but at Citi it wouldn't hurt him as much. Also its a plus he manages to wins 14+ games a year. He did so 4 of the last 5 years. So I think he would be a good fit.

[ClockShot]

Dodgers sign "Death Grip" Doug Mientkiewicz and Angel Berroa to minor league deals.

Mets sign Ryota Igarashi.

Yankees may offer Nick Johnson a deal tomorrow. He's looking like the DH right now.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Igarashi looks pretty good</font>

[Dragon]

Nick Johnson deal near completion, pending a physical (which is probably not as sure a thing as it usually is).

Still would have rather had Damon since he can play a position but Nick batting second and getting on at a .400 clip in front of Tex and A-Rod sounds good too. Hopefully being a full-time DH can keep him from falling apart for one year.

[ClockShot]

Well if we're bringing in Johnson for DH duties, then we sorta got some leverage back on Damon. LF is still open, but of course he's gotta return at our price. Boras can shove it.

Would like to see Cashman make a move on Sheets right about now.

[Dragon]

I don't think Cashman wants Damon playing LF every day though. All reports were that if Damon came back it'd be as a DH. I think this move pretty much assures he won't be back.

But yeah, Boras' ridiculous demands for his clients seems to be hurting them this year. I have only heard a couple teams interested in Damon this whole offseason and they were still asking for ridiculous demands.

And now there is conveniently a mysterious "East coast bidder" in the Holliday game and St. Louis apparently isn't raising their offer from 15M a year.

[Emperor Smeat]

Surprised how Boras didn't lose clients after how last year only a few players got the mega deals while everyone else who had rejected arbitration/initial offers had to deal with much less than what Boras promised. Ended up being even worse when teams proclaimed to spend less due to the economy but the top tier players still got mega deals.

[FakeLaser]

I still see Damon coming back possibly. Nick Johnson's good for what, 350 AB's a year?

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>LOL apparently Cliff Lee was in the woods on a hunting trip and missed all the trade talk...just found out today that he'd been traded and he's depressed</font>

[RBM]

Of course he's upset. He's leaving a World Series team and was coming close to signing an extension with them.

He was still always the Phillies second choice.

As a Seattle fan, I'm glad to have him. Hopefully he likes it there. A left handed elite pitcher that gets to pitch in a spacious park like Safeco with the games best defense behind him. He'll more than likely have a similar year to his 08 year and sign for big money with the Yankees or Sox next offseason.

[DaveWadding]

RBM, I wish you would post more often :'( (esp. about baseball)

[ClockShot]

CUBS FANS REJOICE! MILTON BRADLEY IS GETTING TRADED!

Cubs trade Milton Bradley to the Mariners for Carlos Silva.

[ClockShot]

Nick "The Stick" Johnson agrees to a 1-year, $5.5 mil. deal with the Yankees.

[DaveWadding]

CUBS FANS REJOICE! MILTON BRADLEY IS GETTING TRADED!

Cubs trade Milton Bradley to the Mariners for Carlos Silva.

and the Cubs are getting paid 9 million to take Silva. AWESOME! :love:

[RBM]

Yeah Dave, I'll maybe post a bit more here and there especially since my team doesn't depress me anymore.

Keep in mind that Silva was making 3 million more than Bradley, so the Cubs are basically getting 6 million profit out of this plus the difference in contracts, which I'm assuming is split between the next 2 years.

Now I'm sure the Cubs love the fact that Bradley is no longer with them and is clearly a gigantic asshole... but he could still hit a bit.

Silva... is probably the all around worst pitcher in baseball. The 4 year, 48 million deal that the M's ex-GM signed him to is one of the biggest jokes ever. He's really, really bad.

The Mariners had the worst pitcher in baseball in Silva and the worst positional player in Yuniesky Betancourt on their team at the same time last year and they still managed to win 85 games. That's pretty damn insane.

Thank god both abominations are gone.

Anything short of Bradley bludgeoning the Mariner moose with a bat and this is a good move by Seattle. Besides, Griffey will hopefully manage to straighten him out.

Now if the M's can land a left handed hitting first basemen with a good OPS then they have a shot in the AL west.

[dablackguy]

I think they can compete now

Angels lost a lot of talent

[Skippord]

the Mariners mascot is a moose?

[DaveWadding]

For the record, I am going to mock the shit out of Milton the whole spring, since I live right next to the Mariners' ST facility.

[screech]

I think they can compete now

Angels lost a lot of talent

AL West should be decent this year. Especially if the Rangers get themselves together pitching-wise.

[Hanso Amore]

Bradley was a beast in the AL West. I think he will rebound. and be a nice pickup for the MAriners.

ALso, RPM, Betancourt is the worst position player? You actually think that?

[Dragon]

I still see Damon coming back possibly. Nick Johnson's good for what, 350 AB's a year?

Apparently Damon came back to the Yankees at the last second before the Johnson thing and said he'd take 2 years/20 million deal.

I think its probably a long shot that Damon comes back but I'm sure they could live with his defense in LF one more year if it means a lineup of Jeter-Damon-Tex-ARod-Posada-Granderson-Johnson-Swisher-Cano.

[Innovator]

I still think Damon batting 2nd with Granderson 6th or 8th is deadly

[RBM]

Bradley was a beast in the AL West. I think he will rebound. and be a nice pickup for the MAriners.

ALso, RPM, Betancourt is the worst position player? You actually think that?

If you have another candidate we can break down the numbers.

The only thing he has ever had going for him was a very hollow batting average in the .270-.290 range. His on base percentage is pretty much just slightly higher than whatever his batting average is at the time, because the man just doesn't walk. I remember seeing him walk twice in a game and was completely convinced that it was just an error on Gameday.

He has no power. He has a laughable slugging percentage.

One time last year, Betancourt went 0 for 4 on 5 pitches. 4 outs. 5 pitches. 5.

He was soon after forced to take the first pitch, which lead to him weakly flying out on the second pitch of the at bats instead of the first.

He has no range at short. He constantly messes up routine plays. He doesn't put forth any effort on plays and likes to smirk over it for some reason.

He's god awful. Anyone who could be considered worse is not getting a job in the MLB. The only reason I can think of that he's still around is because he's a shortstop.

[RBM]

Does anyone find it pretty funny that Curtis Granderson could very conceivably bat 9th in the Yankees batting order and lead the team in home runs?

[Droford]

Does anyone find it pretty funny that Curtis Granderson could very conceivably bat 9th in the Yankees batting order and lead the team in home runs?

What happened to the A BOMBS...FROM A ROD?

[Innovator]

oh he'll be hitting his AAAABOMBS

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Arroyo is the one big contract the Reds don't want to move, so the Mets are going to have to put something on the table. But yeah a contact pitcher like Arroyo is perfect for Citi.

[Triple Naitch]

Of course he's upset. He's leaving a World Series team and was coming close to signing an extension with them.

He was still always the Phillies second choice.

As a Seattle fan, I'm glad to have him. Hopefully he likes it there. A left handed elite pitcher that gets to pitch in a spacious park like Safeco with the games best defense behind him. He'll more than likely have a similar year to his 08 year and sign for big money with the Yankees or Sox next offseason.

Lee was nowhere near signing an extension with the Phillies. His agent proposed CC money to them which scared them off. The Phillies thought that the prospects they got from the M's now was better than the 2 first round picks they would get after next year.

[screech]

According to his agent, the talks between Lee and the team were only preliminary. Then the trades happened and pretty much threw his camp for a loop.

[Evil Vito]

Arroyo is the one big contract the Reds don't want to move, so the Mets are going to have to put something on the table. But yeah a contact pitcher like Arroyo is perfect for Citi.

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah, I have no idea what's going on there. I went to the Reds board and they seem to think that the Mets have absolutely nobody of value to give up in a trade. So the fans there feel that if the Reds make a trade with them they are basically saying they aren't even trying next year.

Not sure who else the Mets are even asking about. I mean, obviously Arroyo's being discussed.....I'm sure Brandon Phillips is being talked about but that would mean the Reds have to take Luis Castillo, in which case it would be strictly a salary dump (and a steal for the Mets). Mets are also seeking a second lefty in the bullpen to go along with Feliciano, so I'd have to assume Arthur Rhodes or something since he gets passed around all the time.

I dunno. I don't think a trade there is close.</font>

[Emperor Smeat]

Mike Lowell trade to Rangers officially canceled due to torn ligament found by Rangers during the medical.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>lol, sucks for the Red Sox. Not only do they have to keep Lowell, which could fuck up their pursuit of Adrian Gonzalez...but he'll probably be pissed off that they tried trading him.</font>

[Emperor Smeat]

Hurts that they will miss out on a minor league catcher in the deal but main reason Rangers even bothered was the guarantee to pay $9 million of the $12 million salary by the Red Sox. They can still go after Gonzalez since Lowell's hip is still an issue and he sat out for a good chunk of the season.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Well, the problem is they haven't got the spots to put everybody.

Unless the Red Sox have to do what I suggested and put Ellsbury in a package for Gonzalez. Then you move Youk out to LF. I dunno.</font>

[ClockShot]

Coco Crisp and the A's are working out a deal. 1-year, $5 mil. range.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Darren Oliver agrees to a 1-year deal with the Rangers

Jason Marquis apparently just signed with the Nationals...terms of the deal were not revealed yet</font>

[ClockShot]

Most, if not all teams are interested in Aroldis Chapman. The first shows their hand today.

The Florida Marlins have made the first contract offer. No numbers or figures yet, but it's in the newsbar on ESPNews. So, take it for what it's worth.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>The Mets' offer to Jason Bay has been on the table for 10 days now and he hasn't even given them a response.

I'm guessing he takes it once he realizes for sure that nobody else is making an offer...but it has me starting to buy into what many of the baseball writers have been saying - top free agents don't seem to have an interest in playing for the Mets. First Lackey wouldn't even agree to meet with the Mets and see what their offer was before he decided on Boston. And now this whole Bay thing - could be that he doesn't view them as contenders, could also be the ballpark...which I REALLY don't think will have that big of an effect on his numbers, unless he's too big of a pussy to play left field there.

Probably doesn't help that the Phillies are viewed as not only the class of the division, but of the entire NL...and they got a guy who is at minimum a Top 5 pitcher in baseball.

I'm thinking the Mets need to just step up now and give Bay an ultimatum. This is getting ridiculous, especially since he was meant to respond to them on Friday.</font>

[ClockShot]

Maybe Omar should give Johnny Damon a call. I mean, he wants to stay in New York. Just can't go back to the Bronx. Probably be cheaper too since his options are about to run out. :shifty:

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I wouldn't mind Damon as much as other Mets fans might. I'm expecting to get a crappy defender in left anyway...granted most of Damon's power will go out the window, but the gaps would be good for him. I'd also mark out if he grew back the Jesus beard and hair now that he'd no longer have to follow the Steinbrenner hair rule. That being said, I would feel really uncomfortable giving him more than 1-year.

Also, I'm not too sure where Johnny would fit in the lineup. He'd be a good number 2 guy behind Reyes, but that's basically the only spot in the order that Luis Castillo has value. Now, if the Mets somehow were to bring in Brandon Phillips in their talks with the Reds (ain't happening, I know...pipe dream) to slot him into the heart of the order, that could be really good.</font>

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Jason Marquis apparently just signed with the Nationals...terms of the deal were not revealed yet

2 years, $15 million for FakeRazor's doppelganger

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I guess Marquis was tired of making the postseason every year.

[Emperor Smeat]

<font color=goldenrod>The Mets' offer to Jason Bay has been on the table for 10 days now and he hasn't even given them a response.

I'm guessing he takes it once he realizes for sure that nobody else is making an offer...but it has me starting to buy into what many of the baseball writers have been saying - top free agents don't seem to have an interest in playing for the Mets. First Lackey wouldn't even agree to meet with the Mets and see what their offer was before he decided on Boston. And now this whole Bay thing - could be that he doesn't view them as contenders, could also be the ballpark...which I REALLY don't think will have that big of an effect on his numbers, unless he's too big of a pussy to play left field there.

Probably doesn't help that the Phillies are viewed as not only the class of the division, but of the entire NL...and they got a guy who is at minimum a Top 5 pitcher in baseball.

I'm thinking the Mets need to just step up now and give Bay an ultimatum. This is getting ridiculous, especially since he was meant to respond to them on Friday.</font>

Mets are starting to become similar to the Yankees where agents know the Mets tend to overbid or be part of bidding wars and use them to help increase the price of their clients. The main difference is while Yankees can start bidding wars, players still want to play for them while most use the Mets as a cheap way to increase their salaries for other teams.

[Evil Vito]

Mets are starting to become similar to the Yankees where agents know the Mets tend to overbid or be part of bidding wars and use them to help increase the price of their clients. The main difference is while Yankees can start bidding wars, players still want to play for them while most use the Mets as a cheap way to increase their salaries for other teams.

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah...at this point, I bet if the Red Sox were to put their offer back out there for Bay (pretty much the same as the Mets' current offer), or the Yankees would give him that offer or something, Bay would jump there. Seems pretty clear to me he's only gonna go to the Mets if a better team doesn't step in. It's possible that he's waiting for Holliday to sign...I'd rather the Mets just go for him at this point.

Kinda seems like the Carlos Beltran situation in 2005. The Mets offered him 7 years, $119 million. Reportedly, Beltran took that offer to the Yankees and said "give me something close to this and I'll sign" and they said no, so he settled on the Mets.

Just a shame that the Mets are getting their core guys back healthy...but the free agents still aren't buying them as contenders.</font>

[ClockShot]

So Olney tweets:

"Yankees working very hard tonight on deal for starting pitcher. Remember that they came close to deal for Aaron Harang in summer".

*sigh*

I better wake up tomorrow morning and discover we signed Sheets.

[ClockShot]

Something's going down in the Bronx right now. Now I gotta stay up. :mad:

[Dragon]

I don't know why they're trying to trade for a pitcher. Sheets or Duchscherer would fit fine. They don't even need a big-time starting pitcher considering Joba and Hughes are both going to spring training as starters and Joba will have no limits next year.

I dunno, was kinda just hoping it'd be Duchscherer so Joba and Hughes can both get their chances in the rotation but they'd still have that fall back option.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Mariners trade Brandon Morrow to the Blue Jays for Brandon League and a prospect

lol wtf Mariners</font>

[Dragon]

Just saw that. There must be good prospect going back to the Mariners with League. If not the Mariners have countered a couple good moves this offseason with a ridiculously stupid one.

[Gertner]

Looks like it's either David Cooper who was our first in 08 or Arencibia. Hoping to god it's Cooper. Either way, the Jays friggen stole Morrow. League throws hard, but is all over the place and gives up waaaaaaay too many long balls.

[YOUR Hero]

Morrow wasn't very good last year. TBH, I'd rather have League

[Innovator]

WHAT THE FUCK

[Innovator]

Melky to the Braves for Javier Vazquez.........

HE FUCKING SUCKED IN 2004, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK HE'LL BE BETTER, HOW DARE YOU TRADE THE MELKMAN

[Gertner]

Morrow wasn't very good last year. TBH, I'd rather have League

Morrow was rushed into the majors way too fast.

[Loose Cannon]

woah, what the fuck just happend. Melky is gone to the Braves.

[Loose Cannon]

WHAT THE FUCK

[Innovator]

I'm very angry right now, wanna go punch an infant

[Loose Cannon]

I can't believe this

[DaveWadding]

:rofl: Javier Vasquez sucks so bad.

[Loose Cannon]

well he actually was pretty good last year, but I still hate him

[Splaya]

LOL going to be very interesting if Granderson only hits .240 and Damon (if he signs with them) fizzles out as well

[DaveWadding]

well he actually was pretty good last year, but I still hate him

only been above average twice since he left Montreal.

[Dragon]

Well its not like Melky was a stud outfielder or something. I figured Melky was gonna be traded once he started making more money in arbitration. Not really broken up about losing Melky. Gardner brings more to the team than Melky. The biggest piece the Yankees lost in the deal was the Vizcaino minor league pitcher.

Anyway, don't love the move but don't hate it. Vazquez hasn't been great in the AL but he gives you 200 innings every year which is what the Yankees wanted apparently. And yeah I remember what happened in the playoffs the first time he was here, but I also remember him being an all-star the first half of that season. At least this time he doesn't have to be the ace and can settle as the 4th starter.

Even though I've wanted both Hughes and Joba starting for a while there's no doubt that putting one in the pen for next year makes the team stronger.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Yeah I don't get the hostility. What are Yankees fans more upset about, losing Melky's .269 average or his .716 OPS? He's a mediocre player.

Of course there is something to be said for the Braves being willing to give up pitching at a cheap price. The Braves are that team that come up to you in the cafeteria and offer to give you some great looking treat and your first instinct is to ask "Why, what's wrong with it?"

[Dragon]

Yeah I don't get the hostility. What are Yankees fans more upset about, losing Melky's .269 average or his .716 OPS? He's a mediocre player.

Of course there is something to be said for the Braves being willing to give up pitching at a cheap price. The Braves are that team that come up to you in the cafeteria and offer to give you some great looking treat and your first instinct is to ask "Why, what's wrong with it?"

I think it has to do with everything that happened in 2004 and the grand slam Vazquez gave up to Damon that pretty much sealed their fates in that series. Yankees fans have seemed to hate him since. Kinda stupid though. He was (stupidly) expected to be their ace that year. I think the pressure of only having to be the #4 starter should help him out.

Yeah, Melky really isn't that good and he's starting to make more and more in arbitration. Probably around 4+ next year.

I think the deal had to do with the Braves needing to deal him to clear some money. And he did have a career year last year, although they didn't really get a return like it. I am honestly more glad it wasn't Lowe coming here than anything.

Also, kinda interesting that the Yankees traded Nick Johnson for Vazquez back in the day and now they're both back here.

[Dragon]

I also think this opens up the door for Damon again. Apparently the Yankees have 10M to work with to keep the payroll less than last year. And with this move they've locked up the rotation and shored up the bullpen. I have the feeling Johnny is too butt-hurt about the first go around in the negotiations to take a bigger paycut from the Yankees though.