MLB 2009-2010 Off Season Thread [Archive] - Page 4

ClockShot

12-22-2009, 06:04 PM

Adder

12-22-2009, 06:09 PM

Why would he hit 40+ homers hitting behind A-rod and Tex? Wouldn't he get more pitches to hit if he hit second, ahead of tex and A-rod?

Because of his low batting Avg. , he'd bat behind them. If Granderson can take more walks he'd be the right 2nd batter. He's got a low Avg too, but he has the speed factor. Definately could see them taking on Damon still, but I do have a feeling they'll go after Bay.

FakeLaser

12-22-2009, 06:48 PM

You guys are crazy if you don't think this is yet again another rape deal for Cashman.

Melky Cabrera is a league average CF - a good player but he's easily replaceable - especially when you have a similar player in Brett Gardner AND Jamie Hoffman.

Javier Vazquez is a fucking Cy Young candidate.

Vazquez pitched well half a season in NY he just blew up second half. The Yanks never really gave him a chance. He's exactly what you need at the new Yankee Stadium, a high K pitcher.

Look at his 2009 for fucks sake
15-10, 2.87, 238Ks, 1.026 WHIP

That's Cy Young level shit right there. What's scary is the Yankees look at him as a number 3 or 4 starter. He's better than Burnett and those are better numbers than my man Cheeburger Cheeburger put up last year albeit in the NL.

So we lost a marginal outfielder who we already have a replacement for, a solid prospect 3 years away from the bigs at least and a marginal relief prospect. All for a high K veteran pitcher likely more mature and adept at pitching in pressure situations coming off a Cy Young caliber year.

I don't know if Cash can touch last season's moves (hard to beat signing the top 3 free agents on the market) but he's pretty fucking close this year. We've EXCEEDED our needs this offseason already. We needed a number 3 starter and were looking high risk high reward and traded for Vazquez. Our OF had a hole in it and we sign a young toolsy guy tailor made for our ballpark who also happens to be a great CF. What do we lose? A few mediocre prospects, a marginal CF, a marginal lefty out of the bullpen a possible future number 4 pitcher and a guy who may one day be as good as our new centerfielder.

And we get to keep Montero, Hughes, Romaine, Chamberlain, Melancon, Betances, Brackman, McCallister and De La Rosa.

What more could you ask for really

Splaya

12-22-2009, 06:50 PM

So as I was sitting here on my computer around 11 last night playing "who's the guy" with other Yankee fans over at RAB, and all these names being thrown around as to who Cashman was eyeing. Greinke, Josh Johnson, Ted Lilly, King Felix, Brian Bannister, Zach Duke. All guys who were cheap since a report came out that we wern't taking a salary dump contact, i.e. Derek Lowe.

I think 1 guy guessed Javy Vazquez. Who would of thought that when I checked my phone at work today that's who we got. No Ben Sheets, no Justin Duchsherer, former Yank Javy Vazquez. Shocked and rather pissed, I am. I hope in the long run these new numbers Javy put up don't come back bite Cashman in the ass.

Melky, Dunn, and a prospect get sent down to Atlanta. Kinda sad to see Melky go, he's done alot at the plate and in the outfield. I'm really gonna miss him.

So once again, things get interesting in Left Field. Dragon is right on 2 points. The door is open for Johnny Damon once again, that's if he takes a pay cut. Or today is Brett Gardner's lucky day.

5th spot goes to Joba I assume. Unless Girardi is kind enough to let Hughes compete alongside during spring training.

Such is life.

Do not forget the money you are sending to Atlanta too

FakeLaser

12-22-2009, 06:52 PM

Oh no money, I'm sure the Yankees are worried about that

Hardkore Kidd J

12-22-2009, 06:52 PM

So as I was sitting here on my computer around 11 last night playing "who's the guy" with other Yankee fans over at RAB, and all these names being thrown around as to who Cashman was eyeing. Greinke, Josh Johnson, Ted Lilly, King Felix, Brian Bannister, Zach Duke. All guys who were cheap since a report came out that we wern't taking a salary dump contact, i.e. Derek Lowe.

I think 1 guy guessed Javy Vazquez. Who would of thought that when I checked my phone at work today that's who we got. No Ben Sheets, no Justin Duchsherer, former Yank Javy Vazquez. Shocked and rather pissed, I am. I hope in the long run these new numbers Javy put up don't come back bite Cashman in the ass.

Melky, Dunn, and a prospect get sent down to Atlanta. Kinda sad to see Melky go, he's done alot at the plate and in the outfield. I'm really gonna miss him.

So once again, things get interesting in Left Field. Dragon is right on 2 points. The door is open for Johnny Damon once again, that's if he takes a pay cut. Or today is Brett Gardner's lucky day.

5th spot goes to Joba I assume. Unless Girardi is kind enough to let Hughes compete alongside during spring training.

Such is life.

Gardner being an every day Left Fielder? I will eat crow if this turns out to be the case. But, I don't think so Cash has a history at these mind games. Think about it this was the same man who in 2009 said Swisher was gonna be our first baseman and then zoned in on Tex.

I am willing to bet a lot of money that this is the same situation. Watch, in 2 weeks time we'll find out the Yankees got Holliday, or Bay, or Damon or traded for a serviceable Left Fielder.

I just do not believe for one sec that this is the end. I believe Cash has one more trick up his sleeve.

FakeLaser

12-22-2009, 06:52 PM

I will miss Melk man though, Robinson Cano weeps

FakeLaser

12-22-2009, 06:53 PM

I agree with you, I don't think Gardner will be our LF my point was that we already had 2 similar players to Melky Cabrera.

FakeLaser

12-22-2009, 06:57 PM

You might see Cashman call Damon's bluff. I haven't seen any other teams linked to him at all. He just lost basically all of his leverage. Cashman should offer him a one year deal at 9 million with an option or something and see what he says

FakeLaser

12-22-2009, 07:01 PM

Even now though, look at this fucking team:

Jeter
Johnson
Teixeira
A-Rod
Posada
Granderson
Cano
Swisher
Gardner

Cheeburger Cheeburger
AJ
Javy
Pettitte
Chamberlain/Hughes

Rivera
Chamberlain/Hughes
Marte
Robertson
Aceves
Gaudin
Edwar Ramirez Wishlist/Mark Melancon

Dragon

12-22-2009, 07:01 PM

Oh no money, I'm sure the Yankees are worried about that

Especially when its only $500,000 dollars. That'll buy you a league-minimum player.

Dragon

12-22-2009, 07:05 PM

I think Gardner is just as capable as Melky in playing LF this year. Not that he'll be there opening day but I'm sure he could do just as well as Melky. I'd say there's a good chance its either Damon, DeRosa (not sure about that) or Gardner. Or some lesser role player type guy.

If they did end up staying with Gardner I'd think Granderson(LF)-Gardner(CF)-Swisher(RF) is the right move. Even though there wasn't a huge sample size Gardner was top 5 defensive CF last year.

Adder

12-22-2009, 07:06 PM

FakeLaser

12-22-2009, 08:51 PM

lol @ Milton Bradley's heel goodbye fullpage ad

http://www.tauntr.com/sites/default/files/Bradley_letter_master.jpg

ClockShot

12-22-2009, 09:16 PM

Full page ad in the Tribune? Wonder how much that ran him?

Loose Cannon

12-22-2009, 09:32 PM

FakeRazor sees my point on Vasquez. And yes, I agree that Vasquez is better than Burnett. I don't say that because I'm a bitter Jays fan, his number tell the tale. Vasquez tends to gas in the 2nd half. Did so again last year, W/L and ERA wise, but look at the end totals. He was 4th in Cy Young voting. All for an OF than was marginal.

everyone gets the point. it's common sense. again, it's just the loss of Melky that has people up in arms right now. Obviosuly you can look a the stats and see Vasquez is the superior player.

Time will tell on this one though. Leave what Vasquez did last year off the table. He could easily be a bust. But he is very pumped to be coming back and he really wants to prove to the NY fans that he's worth it.

FakeLaser

12-22-2009, 09:33 PM

A trade is supposed to hurt a bit, this is a clear winner friends

Droford

12-22-2009, 09:37 PM

The Braves have to really like the prospects they got to like this trade, and they better hope they pan out.

Loose Cannon

12-22-2009, 09:37 PM

oh and I don't mind Gardner playing the OF. He just needs to get in the cage a lot more. He's great defensive and small ball type player, which the Yanks desperately need at times. Especially in the playoffs. I still think they will sign Damon though

Skippord

12-22-2009, 09:55 PM

I love Milton Bradley

The Gold Standard

12-23-2009, 12:45 AM

Is that Bradley thing for real?

Boomer

12-23-2009, 11:18 AM

Most Braves fans question the trade for sure, but it had to be done to open the payroll up for a bat.

Unfortunately, that bat seems to be Troy Glaus. I have no confidence he will start the majority of our games this year at first. I'm hoping something else is in the cards.

Adder

12-23-2009, 02:32 PM

Braves had 6 starters. Makes good sense.

ClockShot

12-23-2009, 11:03 PM

Looks like Matt Capps is on his way to the Nationals.

dablackguy

12-23-2009, 11:15 PM

Baseball desperately needs a salary cap as well as a salary floor

Mets signed R.A. Dickey to a minor league deal... the only way this turns out good is if he gets bombed and the back page of the Daily News read "Limp Dickey"

We're so awful, this team should just get on a plane and crazy

Please don't neg rep me again Assman, theyre my team too

Innovator

12-24-2009, 12:03 AM

Mets fans deserve better than they're getting, no way I'd pay for season tickets

Evil Vito

12-24-2009, 01:43 AM

Yeah...as time goes on I'm starting to feel more and more like that big move isn't going to happen...but, this isn't all bad. In fact, it's a chance for Omar to NOT do something stupid.

As I look towards next year's free agent market, it's a million times better than this years. I'd rather do big spending then than waste dollars on mediocre players now that I KNOW will prevent them from landing a couple of big players next year. Guys like Cliff Lee, Matt Cain, and Brandon Webb could hit the free agent market...so I don't wanna tie Joel Pineiro down for 4 years.

Kinda sucks thinking about what 2010 might bring...the good news is that healthy, full campaigns from Wright, Reyes, Beltran, and Santana should alone yield way more than the 70 wins of last year...probably around .500 or so...not to mention having those guys playing makes the games FAR more fun to watch. The bad news is they are definitely still gonna have to have a lot of luck on their side, because as presently constructed they just don't stack up with the juggernaut Phils that will probably win well over 90 games.

RBM

12-24-2009, 02:23 AM

The Morrow trade... a lot of people are saying that this is probably a handshake agreement that is a part of the big 3 team trade last week. Even if it's not being admitted to.

Might not be the case. Who knows.

The M's GM was quoted as saying that he would've been competing for the 5th spot in the rotation. The M's still have 10ish million to spend and that could very well include grabbing a starting pitcher. They probably just figured Morrow probably won't actually tap into the potential that he has, especially with the complete mishandling of him the past few years. Besides, he walks the world and hasn't gotten his breaking stuff working, really.

The Yankees... now that they know they have a pretty good stranglehold on the AL, they'll probably just keep buying or one-side trading their way into having an all star at every position.

That Vasquez trade was a rape. Melky has been and always will be a 4th outfielder. Even if last year was an outlier for Javier, his regressed numbers are still going to be really solid for a 4th slot starter.

I like how the Braves freed up something like 8 or 9 million dollars and then go and sign a question mark for 2 million as their "big bat".

Maybe if they didn't spend 10 million on aging, question mark bullpen arms, they could get a legit bat or two for the middle of that order.

McLegend

12-24-2009, 03:54 AM

I will alwaways miss Cliffe lee. He moiguht be my favoiret of all atime.

God e;ess VClfoee Lee

YOUR Hero

12-24-2009, 10:59 AM

I sure hope that the prospects the Jays got work out. I hope their young arms that all seemed to get shelved the last year or two come back strong. I'm not predicting a wild card run with these guys...yet. But there is a lot of potential in the Jays, it just needs to bear fruit. It's all I've got to look forward to right now.

FakeLaser

12-24-2009, 02:37 PM

Orioles are light years ahead of the Jays in rebuilding now, could be 5 years before the Jays get out of the basement

Adder

12-24-2009, 02:40 PM

Jays have potentially great pitching now. We'll see if it develops into anything now that both Halladay and Burnett are gone

Evil Vito

12-24-2009, 03:55 PM

Top 10 playoff disappointments of the 2000s:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/The-top-10-playoff-disappointments-of-the-2000s;_ylt=AqpZBCF8rlQZ6qbHElXQof4RvLYF?urn=mlb,209661

Good list. Definitely agree with what was said about the '06 Mets...it was heart-wrenching, but I figured they'd that with their core they'd be right back in the playoffs in '07 to redeem themselves...now it only hurts more in retrospect.

Kinda surprised the '04 Yanks didn't get the top spot, given the fact that a collapse of that magnitude has never happened...but the '01 Mariners are a good choice as well.

ClockShot

12-24-2009, 04:31 PM

Ichiro probably heard about this list and went screaming to the M's front office to do some damage this offseason.

One thing's for sure, they listened.

ClockShot

12-24-2009, 04:43 PM

Justin Duchscherer stays in Oakland. 1-year, up to $5.5 mil. if he hits all his incentives.

DaveWadding

12-24-2009, 04:45 PM

Guys I wanted for the D'Backs:

<strike>Matt Capps</strike>
<strike>Justin Duchscherer</strike>
Kelly Johnson

:(

YOUR Hero

12-24-2009, 10:04 PM

Duchshcherer or however you spell it belongs somewhere like Oakland. At least for another year.

Evil Vito

12-24-2009, 11:11 PM

Mets sign Kelvim Escobar. 1-year deal, apparently it's a Major League deal. If that means there's less of a chance that they sign Pineiro to an unnecessarily huge deal, that'd be great.

FakeLaser

12-25-2009, 12:36 PM

Mets were the biggest joke of the decade. They had every reason to dominate the NL.

Supreme Olajuwon

12-25-2009, 01:36 PM

nah Cubs

even though the Mets were loading up the payroll, I always felt bad for them
but the Cubs were just hilarious

Evil Vito

12-25-2009, 02:20 PM

Apparently the Mets view Escobar as a potential set-up guy for K-Rod, not a starter. Interesting.

FakeLaser

12-25-2009, 02:24 PM

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/20061020beltran.jpg

Heros Welcome

12-25-2009, 02:34 PM

Razor its Christmas day! I just died a little inside because of that pic... :(

OssMan

12-25-2009, 06:00 PM

O fuck just realized the Mets still have K-ROD. Fucking hate him. Better than Billy Wagner though

Evil Vito

12-25-2009, 10:18 PM

http://andysmlblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/arod1.jpg

Loose Cannon

12-26-2009, 12:05 AM

Big Vito, I like you, but you're making me do this

http://gothamist.com/attachments/tien/2009_11_nyyws5.jpg

Emperor Smeat

12-26-2009, 12:23 AM

booo

DaveWadding

12-26-2009, 01:28 AM

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.fanhouse.com/media/2007/06/luis-gonzalez-world-series-winner.jpg

Evil Vito

12-26-2009, 01:57 AM

Hanso Amore

12-26-2009, 11:32 AM

At least my favorite team will ALWAYS be associated with a consensus Top 10 moment in the history of baseball...maybe even Top 5 :shifty:

http://blog.timesunion.com/mcguire/files/2008/08/buckphu006000mookie-wilson-s-grounder-past-bill-buckner-1986-world-series-game-6-posters.jpg

I can think of 27 moments better than that one. Winning on an error..so sad.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ZY9Guo5ML._SL500_AA235_.jpg

Hanso Amore

12-26-2009, 11:35 AM

And Just cause I hate Cubs Fans

http://danthemantrivia.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/steve-bartman.jpg

Big Fat Mike

12-26-2009, 11:40 AM

I always thought that Derek Bell should have hopped the wall and ripped that dudes arms off.

Evil Vito

12-26-2009, 12:21 PM

Bill Buckner always got an unfair amount of flack for that, tbh. The Mets had one of the greatest rallies in baseball history (down by 2, no men on, 2 outs, facing elimination) before that play...and when it happened, the game was tied.

If Buckner had made the out, the game just would've gone to the 11th and who knows what would've happened then. People acted as though it was his fault that the pitching staff managed to fold when they were one out away from a title. :o

Emperor Smeat

12-26-2009, 01:10 PM

The error ended up being the momentum killer for the Red Sox in the 86 World Series. Even though the error occurred in Game 6, the Red Sox mentally fell apart after that.

Buckner wasn't supposed to be in the game in the late innings since the manager tended to sub him when they had a lead for better defense at the corners but in that game he forgot to.

Evil Vito

12-26-2009, 02:24 PM

Even that seems a little debatable though, because the Red Sox got off to an early 3-0 lead in Game 7, think people tend to forget the Mets had to fight back in that game as well. Kinda wish I was like 15 years older than I am just so I could have watched all of this live. :(

I don't think McNamara forgot to sub out Buckner...but he got cocky and figured "Bill deserves to be on the field when we win the World Series" :cool:

Emperor Smeat

12-26-2009, 02:51 PM

Yeah in hindsight the error ends up being the momentum shifter and at worst Red Sox still had 1 more chance to potential win that World Series.

I believe when Grady Little kept Pedro in Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS longer than he should have, analysts compared that moment to the Buckner moment in terms of managers going against what they normally do in late games.

Hanso Amore

12-26-2009, 03:40 PM

I always thought that Derek Bell should have hopped the wall and ripped that dudes arms off.

Why would he do that? He had been retired for about 3 years at that point and I dont think he even played for the Cubs.

Now Moises Alou on the other hand...

Big Fat Mike

12-26-2009, 11:47 PM

So they aren't the same person?

Loose Cannon

12-26-2009, 11:53 PM

racist

Big Fat Mike

12-27-2009, 12:04 AM

;)

DaveWadding

12-27-2009, 12:31 AM

D'Backs ink Phoenix native Bob Howry for 2-3 mil. I like it.

FakeLaser

12-27-2009, 02:39 AM

In an obvious attempt to leave injury woes behind them, today, the Mets signed Kelvim Escobar to shore up their bullpen.

Jesus Shuttlesworth

12-27-2009, 03:08 AM

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v234/156/102/57401592/n57401592_30781361_8453.jpg
FUCK YOU ALL

Evil Vito

12-27-2009, 09:18 AM

I wasn't sure how I felt about the Escobar signing when I realized it was for a bullpen spot...but then I looked at his numbers and found that relieving is nothing new to him.

Decent low risk signing...especially since most of the top relievers on the market are still seeking places where they can close or at least compete to close.

Big Fat Mike

12-27-2009, 01:27 PM

In an obvious attempt to leave injury woes behind them, today, the Mets signed Kelvim Escobar to shore up their bullpen.

lol

dablackguy

12-27-2009, 03:23 PM

I can think of 27 moments better than that one. Winning on an error..so sad.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ZY9Guo5ML._SL500_AA235_.jpg

Except the series wasn't decided on that error...

If you're gonna talk, at least have the decency to know what you're talking about...

Hanso Amore

12-27-2009, 08:52 PM

Except the series wasn't decided on that error...

If you're gonna talk, at least have the decency to know what you're talking about...

What the fuck is your cunt mouth going on about?

ClockShot

12-28-2009, 03:23 PM

Been rather quiet these past few days, but Ken Rosenthal was happy to turn up the gas on the Stove today.

Mark DeRosa is close to a 2-year, $12 mil. deal with the Giants.

I guess the Yankees didn't make a move on him after all. Door's still open for Damon

Dragon

12-28-2009, 06:34 PM

Unless Damon's price comes down a lot still I think the Yankees will just get someone like Reed Johnson to platoon with Gardner. I know they've been linked to him recently and it doesn't seem like a terrible idea. He's a career .313/.378/.463 batter against lefties. Also has solid defense and can play all outfield positions.

He could definitely make sense considering Granderson's inability to hit lefties too.

Ideally Damon would come back for cheap, but I can't see it happening. Cashman seems to have drawn a line with 4M left to work with. Thats not getting Damon.

YOUR Hero

12-28-2009, 07:15 PM

Heard the Yankees might be bringing in Jermain Dye to play LF

ClockShot

12-28-2009, 09:10 PM

Not happening.

Evil Vito

12-28-2009, 10:29 PM

Today on WFAN, Mike Francesa said he will give a ‘major, major update on the Mets,’ during tomorrow’s show.

Well.....if it was inside information on a free agent signing or trade, why the fuck would you tip off the rest of the media world? My HOPE is that it'll be something like the Mets are giving up on Bay and are aggressively pursuing Holliday instead, but I dunno. I also heard Bay might make a decision soon, so I hope the shit gets resolved soon either way.

ClockShot

12-28-2009, 10:34 PM

Beat writers and everybody from Olney to Rosenthal are now getting the info.

Watch Francesa be pissed off tomorrow cause someone else broke the news besides him.

Evil Vito

12-29-2009, 10:24 AM

Yeah, if it's something really big I refuse to believe only Francesa has links to the inside sources. I mean, he was the first person to report that the Mets made an offer to Jason Bay...but then not too long after that everyone else caught on.

Who knows...gotta hand it to the big guy though, he's given me a reason to tune in.

YOUR Hero

12-29-2009, 10:39 AM

Not happening.
what makes you say that

ClockShot

12-29-2009, 11:54 AM

Don't need Dye. He's getting old and ain't got the arm he used to have. I think we'll ending up give the spot to Gardner or find somebody on the B list and give him a 1-year deal.

Also, I think we only got about 4-5 mil. to pay with. We're really not screwing around with payroll this season.

Evil Vito

12-29-2009, 02:52 PM

Francesa's really hyping up the Mets news, which is meant to be revealed at 2:05 PM

Still can't help but feel like it's not gonna be anything groundbreaking, since nobody else has said anything. But, we'll see.

Adder

12-29-2009, 03:08 PM

Dye hit 27 HRs last year in an off year for him. He's quietly better than people give him credit for.

Supreme Olajuwon

12-29-2009, 03:08 PM

Probably signed like Bengie Molina or something like that

Heros Welcome

12-29-2009, 03:13 PM

According to Francessa The Mets will have Jason Bay by next week. Physicals pending of course.

Evil Vito

12-29-2009, 03:16 PM

Nice. Hope it was the 4 year, $65 million deal they offered. I'd be ecstatic to not have that guaranteed 5th year.

Heros Welcome

12-29-2009, 04:02 PM

Joel Sherman of the New York Post tweets that Bay has a four-year, $66MM agreement with an easy fifth-year vesting option.

Heros Welcome

12-29-2009, 04:07 PM

1:42pm: Joel Sherman of the New York Post tweets that Bay has a four-year, $66MM agreement with an easy fifth-year vesting option. The 2014 vesting option appears to be worth more than $14MM, as ESPN's Jerry Crasnick tweets that Bay's deal could be worth "slightly more than $80MM over five years."

Evil Vito

12-29-2009, 04:17 PM

I'm glad they finally settled the left field situation. I would have rather had Holliday, certainly. But...Bay is not a bad player. The consensus around baseball is that he is going to decline sharply at the plate before his deal is over, but if that's the only bad contract the Mets have then, I can deal with it.

Now, I'd like to see the Mets take a look at Delgado. If he seems to be healthy, I would definitely give him a reasonable one year deal. I WOULDN'T have signed him and shouldered him with the load of being the cleanup hitter, but now that they got a power LF guy, Delgado can bat 6th behind Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Bay, and Beltran while getting frequent time off to allow Murphy to play. And if he sucks, let him go and stick with Murph.

Heros Welcome

12-29-2009, 04:24 PM

I understand where your coming from Vito, I do, its just I wanna see Murph play full time. Everyone around baseball, including Francessa, hate on Murph a lot and say he can't be an everyday player as if hes been in the league for 5 years. Last year was basically his rookie season. I would have loved to see what he would have done full time at 1st all year, without losing confidence and being hate on for his play in LF. Once he went to 1st he became more relaxed and his numbers climbed.

Delgado is going to be what 38 by ST I think? I just feel his run at 1B is over and his career as a DH should begin. Plus it would be saying goodbye to a player who has said to be a "cancer" in the clubhouse. That he held down the younger players like Wright from becoming the leader. Is that true? Who knows, probably just Media BS. But all in all I think its time to say bye bye to Delgado and let Murph go full force.

Adder

12-29-2009, 04:30 PM

Be nice to see Delgado come back to the Jays as their DH.

Evil Vito

12-29-2009, 04:40 PM

I know. I'm a big Murph fan, nobody tries harder and he's homegrown. However, I do have to say that his number breakdowns are a definite concern for me. He was great when called up at the end of '08, great in April '09, outstanding in September '09...but, you really can't put TOO much stock into numbers at the beginning and end of the year. He was awful during the middle of the year. It could be a case of pitchers adjusting and then Murph adjusted back at the end of the year, who knows.

But...the prospect of a healthy Delgado batting 6th behind those guys is something I can't pass up. It's not like they'd be spending tens of millions over multiple years. It'd be low risk/high reward, because Murph would be there to fill in. I'm sort of viewing this like the Mets' lineup in 2006, with Cliff Floyd batting 6th. He got injured but it was okay because they had fill-ins, but the potential for that deadly lineup was there.

Evil Vito

12-29-2009, 07:37 PM

Mets look like they are gonna concede and guarantee Molina a 2nd year. Not too happy about that, but they clearly like him. Hopefully it won't come back to bite them.

Also, the Mets are in talks with the Cubs about Carlos Zambrano...and a third team is likely involved as well, but the Mets would be parting with Luis Castillo and "another young player".

I can't see the Mets getting Zambrano, not only is he hesitant to waive his no-trade clause, but the Cubs were asking for the kitchen sink from the Yanks, don't see how the Mets could possibly offer more.

Still...let me get my imagination cranking:

SS Reyes
2B Hudson
3B Wright
LF Bay
CF Beltran
RF Francoeur
1B Murphy
C Molina

Santana, Zambrano, Pelfrey, Perez, Maine

Rodriguez, Escobar, Igarashi, Feliciano, Green, Stokes, someone else

Blanco, Cora, Pagan, Carter, someone else

---

I dare to dream. :(

FakeLaser

12-29-2009, 08:50 PM

Mets are so stupid

Jesus Shuttlesworth

12-30-2009, 12:40 AM

JASON BAY WHAT ARE YOU THINKING

Jesus Shuttlesworth

12-30-2009, 12:41 AM

Hopefully the Red Sox bring back Trot Nixon so he can get the 'roids flowing through the clubhouse again.

RatedGSuperstar

12-30-2009, 12:44 AM

Evil Vito

12-30-2009, 01:27 AM

Don't really see why such a big deal is being made of Bay's defense tbh. Every regular left fielder the Mets have had over the last several years has been shitty defensively.....and this year was gonna be no exception with a lack of options on the market.

As long as he hits, I don't care what he does on the defensive side of the ball.

YOUR Hero

12-30-2009, 01:53 AM

That what Boston used to say about Manny

Jesus Shuttlesworth

12-30-2009, 03:26 AM

I'll take what happened with Manny any day of the week

Emperor Smeat

12-30-2009, 09:24 AM

Bit upset about Bay leaving the Red Sox since he was such a nice guy and good player for the short time there. He really helped "clean" the negative atmosphere from the Manny fallout in 2008 with his good playing abilities and production numbers.

Also a bit surprised Mariners didn't go after him more aggressively since he was willing to go to Seattle before the Mets and others entered the bidding war.

Evil Vito

12-30-2009, 12:54 PM

Peter Gammons last week: "Jason Bay would rather play in Beirut than play in Queens"

Suck it.

He, Ken Rosenthal, and a few others have been hurling insults towards the Mets in their reporting all off-season.

DaveWadding

12-30-2009, 01:49 PM

Kelly Johnson taking physical today to finalize his 1 year 2 million contract with the D'Backs.

Boomer

12-30-2009, 02:31 PM

He's worth it. He just has some of the worst cold spells I've ever seen.

Evil Vito

12-30-2009, 03:36 PM

Apparently Bay's deal is heavily backloaded...he'll only be making like $10 million in 2010.

Definitely makes it a risky deal in the last two years of the contract...but dammit, that frees up more than enough space for a top pitcher, not Joel Pineiro or anything. Callers are flooding the lines of WFAN saying Carlos Zambrano is the way to go, and Joe & Evan agree.

Dammit, I've now reached the point where I can't help but imagine how awesome it would be even though I doubt it will happen. :o His agents keep saying he won't waive his no trade clause, but EVERYBODY with a no-trade clause says that initially. Maybe the Mets' Venezuelan influence will help, who knows.

RatedGSuperstar

12-30-2009, 05:11 PM

Even if he did waive the no-trade clause, how much would you be willing to part with? Cubs fans I know have it in their heads that the only possible return from the Mets that would make a deal worth it would be Jose Reyes, and these aren't the typical drunken frat guy Cub fans. The Mets would be insane to do that deal...I don't think there's a chance of that deal getting done.

Adder

12-30-2009, 05:35 PM

Mets need pitching, they didn't need Bay. Wanted him, sure, but needed him? - No.

Evil Vito

12-30-2009, 06:29 PM

Nah there is no way in hell the Mets are trading Reyes. Cubs fans only feel Reyes is the only suitable compensation because Big Z is a fan favorite. Everything I've read suggests that the Cubs are actually desperate to get rid of Zambrano as he's gonna be owed more and more money each of the next three years. Also, his innings have gone down each year...so that suggests the Cubs might be afraid of a breakdown. Personally, I'm not too worried about him getting a major injury during the next three years.

However, getting Zambrano will definitely involve mainly big league talent. The name constantly floated around is Luis Castillo, so he'd likely be there. They'd want somebody to plug into the rotation, so I'm thinking John Maine could be in it. Also, they are looking for outfielders, so Angel Pagan is a possibility I suppose. Throw in another prospect, and I think the Cubs would make the move if they really were dead set on making the trade.

Splaya

12-30-2009, 06:46 PM

The Bay contract is going to look really, really bad in a couple years, especially if that option for the 5th year vests. Watching him play defense in Citi Field should be a circus...hope Beltran's ready to cover extra ground.

Someone should ask the Detroit Tigers how they feel about the Magglio Ordonez deal and how Singlio will be making 18 million to hit singles all year.

Is there any Detroit fans here who would like to discuss that....

Oh yeah :'(

DaveWadding

12-30-2009, 07:03 PM

Kelly Johnson: 1 year, $2.35 million.

ClockShot

12-31-2009, 06:27 PM

Cubs sign Marlon Byrd to a 3-year, $15 mil. deal.

ClockShot

01-01-2010, 05:03 PM

Angels and Blue Jays throw their hats into the Aroldis Chapman ring.

Marlins, Red Sox, A's, and O's are also in the mix.

FakeLaser

01-01-2010, 05:53 PM

Don't really know why Marlon Byrd deserves 3 years but okkkkkkkkkk

YOUR Hero

01-01-2010, 06:19 PM

Don't really know why Marlon Byrd deserves 3 years but okkkkkkkkkk
at "only" 5 million a season is why.

Evil Vito

01-02-2010, 03:41 PM

I was just reading through the posts on this page and I realized I left off something in my argument for bringing back Carlos Delgado. The consensus everywhere is that Ike Davis will be the first baseman of the future, and a lot of scouts feel he will be ready to shoulder the load by 2011...also, he is viewed as a definite September call-up candidate if the Mets find themselves with a big gap in the playoff race (be it a positive or negative gap).

With that being said, it's looking more and more likely that Murphy is going to need to learn 2nd base for when Castillo's deal is up or he is traded, and until then he might become primarily a jack-of-all-trades bench guy. With Davis looming, I don't see that big of a deal in letting Delgado bat 6th for a year and give the Mets a scary lineup. Well worth a one year, $5 million or so investment...which is probably what he will get even if he signs with an AL team to DH, and like many other guys who go to the AL, I don't think he necessarily WANTS to DH, a lot of guys prefer to field.

Heros Welcome

01-02-2010, 04:18 PM

Well also gotta take into account that Ike can play RF. He played the OF for Team USA, and not a bad one at that. Obviously that won't matter because once Murph hits a slump he's going to get the axe regardless. As much as I want Murph to be able to play 2nd base it won't happen. He did it in the AFL and he was atrocious. He just doesn't seem to have that lateral movement and footwork to be a good 2nd basemen.

I hold out hope though.

Evil Vito

01-02-2010, 04:24 PM

I think Ike in RF depends on Jeff Francoeur more than anything else. Mets were considering giving Francoeur a 3-year deal to avoid his arbitration years. If he goes back to how he was early in his career with the Braves, he'll be a force for several years.

And for the record, Delgado isn't even my top choice. I feel that Adam LaRoche might be one of those guys this year that waited too long to sign with a team and has to settle on a 1-year deal. He would be a good force in the 6 hole not to mention being a good glove.

Evil Vito

01-04-2010, 12:11 AM

Jason Bay taking his extensive medical exam tomorrow...

*prays*

Evil Vito

01-04-2010, 01:15 PM

Awesome, according to SNY, Bay has passed his physical. Press conference at 11 AM tomorrow. Wonder how they'll align their 3-4-5 hitters.

DaveWadding

01-04-2010, 01:46 PM

Wright - Delgado - Sheffield

oh wait, that will be in June.

Evil Vito

01-04-2010, 02:03 PM

:foc:

I'm thinking Wright #3 is a lock, just a matter of what to do with Beltran or Bay.

I think I'd go Beltran-Bay if they got Delgado, Bay-Beltran if they stood pat and had Francoeur batting 6th.

RatedGSuperstar

01-04-2010, 02:09 PM

I'd put Beltran between Wright and Bay, due to his ability to switch hit. It would break up the right-handed hitters in the lineup against RHP and make it harder for opposing managers to make pitching changes. That and I think having Beltran on base ahead of Bay would be beneficial in terms of scoring from first or second -- if Bay can use the gaps effectively, you can let Beltran run without having to worry too much about having a slow guy running in front of him.

Evil Vito

01-04-2010, 03:06 PM

Yeah, good idea. I think the main reason I'd want Beltran batting ahead of Francoeur instead of Bay is because Beltran is more patient, which can be important as Francoeur (and also Bengie Molina, if he is signed) are free swingers. I'd rather make sure there are at least men on base. Interesting in seeing how it works out.

Speaking of which, Francesa opened his show again by saying there will be more Mets news during the week and that "Bay's press conference is tomorrow, but more are coming"...he was the first to report Bay's agreement, so he clearly has some inside information. My initial thought is that they've finally agreed to a deal with Molina...my hope is that they've swung a trade for a starting pitcher but I'd have to think a report would have leaked out in the trading partner's market were that the case.

Evil Vito

01-04-2010, 07:39 PM

So, after all that...his big news is that Bay and Minaya will be guests on his show tomorrow. He slipped it in at the end and spent pretty much all 5.5 hours talking football.

Got a feeling he'll be doing that a bunch before pitchers and catchers report. Bait the Mets fans into thinking more news is coming. :(

Ah well, will be good seeing Bay in uniform tomorrow.

ClockShot

01-04-2010, 09:24 PM

The Red Sox/Yankees Chess game continues.

Red Sox sign Adrian Beltre to a 1-year, $9 mil. deal. With $5 mil. player option for '11.

Evil Vito

01-04-2010, 09:32 PM

Evil Vito

01-04-2010, 09:55 PM

It stands to reason that they might not have made that deal unless they are certain they can move Lowell...I was reading that at this point they will probably be willing to pay a good chunk of his salary (more than half) to get him off the roster.

Jerry Crasnick said he's heard whispers of a Luis Castillo-for-Mike Lowell deal, as Pedroia has been mulling over a move to shortstop.

Shit, I'd definitely take a majorly discounted Lowell as a platoon guy for Murphy...AND it gets Castillo off the books and gives the Mets a shot to bring in Hudson. I like it.

Wait, scratch that. I forgot the Sox signed Scutaro. No reason for the Sox to make the move then.

Skippord

01-05-2010, 10:07 AM

yay Miguel Olivo

Evil Vito

01-05-2010, 05:31 PM

Big Unit is expected to officially announce his retirement tomorrow

Big Fat Mike

01-05-2010, 05:32 PM

Did he ever get his 300 wins?

DaveWadding

01-05-2010, 05:38 PM

Yeah.

Dragon

01-05-2010, 05:51 PM

It stands to reason that they might not have made that deal unless they are certain they can move Lowell...I was reading that at this point they will probably be willing to pay a good chunk of his salary (more than half) to get him off the roster.

Jerry Crasnick said he's heard whispers of a Luis Castillo-for-Mike Lowell deal, as Pedroia has been mulling over a move to shortstop.

Shit, I'd definitely take a majorly discounted Lowell as a platoon guy for Murphy...AND it gets Castillo off the books and gives the Mets a shot to bring in Hudson. I like it.

Yeah, they were willing to pay like 9M of the 12-13?M owed to him next year in that Texas trade before his injuries came up apparently.

Read something that they're close to moving Kotchman so maybe they just hold on to Lowell as a backup 3B-1B/part-time DH type guy. I mean if they're gonna pay almost his full salary in a trade anyway, doesn't seem like a crazy idea.

Evil Vito

01-05-2010, 06:10 PM

The more I think about it, the more I think the bullpen newcomers (Kelvim Escobar and Ryota Igarashi) are the major wildcards to the Mets' season. Barring a shocking trade for Big Z, I don't think their rotation is going to be majorly improved regardless of what SP they wind up getting.

But, that brings me to thinking about the 2006 team that romped the National League despite not having that good of a rotation...their "ace" was Tom Glavine because Pedro only pitched like half the year and had an ERA over 4 for the first time in his career (as opposed to this Mets team that has a sure-fire, reliable ace). The '06 team won because of it's killer lineup and Heilman/Sanchez regularly shutting things down in the 7th and 8th for the first half of the year.

Given that the Mets seem to be forming a really formidable lineup (Molina is still like 95% likely to be a Met, and Delgado might be back), if Igarashi and Escobar wind up being huge hits, I think the Mets will be fine. Feliciano is also extremely dependable and I think Green will be good with a full-year in his new pitching motion.

ClockShot

01-05-2010, 06:14 PM

Braves sign Troy Glaus 1-year, $1.75 mil with incentives built in.

M's are set to aquire Casey Kotchman from the Red Sox. M's are sending over "atleast 1 minor leaguer."

Dragon

01-05-2010, 07:31 PM

Holliday finally signs with the Cards.

And apparently Bill Hall is going to the Sox in the Kotchman deal. The population of black people in Boston has doubled with the Red Sox offseason moves so far.

ClockShot

01-05-2010, 08:42 PM

The 2 big names on the market finally sign today.

Alright Johnny Damon, the ball is in your court and time is running out.

Dragon

01-06-2010, 12:10 AM

Apparently the Sox named Ellsbury as their LF and Cameron as their CF next year. Not a huge announcement but a good move for them I think. Even with his age Cameron has been one of the best fielders in the game and according to defensive metrics and all that stuff Ellsbury was pretty bad last year in center.

Their offense hasn't improved too much IMO, but their defense got miles better with Beltre, Ellsbury in LF and Cameron in CF.

Skippord

01-06-2010, 12:37 AM

very happy for Matt Holliday

Triple Naitch

01-06-2010, 12:46 AM

very happy for Matt Holliday

Absolutely. Holliday is perfect for the Cardinals and the Cardinals are perfect for Holliday. It was meant to be.

Jesus Shuttlesworth

01-06-2010, 01:25 AM

Droford

01-06-2010, 01:29 AM

The Os are apparently interested in Billy Butler

/Fat Tony Mode on

Yeah, that'll put asses in seats

/Fat Tony Mode Off

Evil Vito

01-06-2010, 01:42 AM

I also read the O's made an offer for Adam LaRoche, he'd be a good fit

Evil Vito

01-06-2010, 01:52 AM

Maybe Supreme can get in here with some Reds insight...has there been ANY indication at all that Brandon Phillips is even available? It's clear that Harang and Arroyo are at least being shopped around, but all over the place Mets fans are saying they'd love to swing a deal for Arroyo and Phillips as though it were said ANYWHERE that he was even available.

The only thing even close that I can think of was that article a couple weeks back that said the Mets were working on getting "several players" from the Reds including Arroyo...but it would make absolute zero sense for the Reds to trade Phillips to the Mets seeing as Luis Castillo would have to be part of the deal. Yeah he makes less than Phillips, but he's still got $12M guaranteed over the next two years.

So yeah...just wondering if there are talks of moving Phillips anywhere that I missed or something, cause I'm not sure why people talk of him as though he's available.

Supreme Olajuwon

01-06-2010, 02:11 AM

Droford

01-06-2010, 02:39 AM

I also read the O's made an offer for Adam LaRoche, he'd be a good fit
they're also possibly in on Jorge Cantu now that the Marlins dont wanna move Dan Uggla all of a sudden. Cantu can play a bunch of positions, especially the corners.

Emperor Smeat

01-06-2010, 02:53 AM

Dragon

01-06-2010, 03:10 AM

That was one of their 2 main goals this off-season : fix the defense and do something to fix the bullpen (bullpen probably only gets figured out during Spring Training).

Yeah, their defense is ridiculously better this year. The only position with subpar defense seems to be Martinez at catcher. Hard to argue that they don't have the best defensive team going into next year.

Going from Bay to Ellsbury and Ellsbury to Cameron is definitely huge. What I saw from Lowell last year (when they played the Yanks) he could barely move at third base. While Beltre is one of the best defensive 3B in the game.

Pretty obvious what the Sox went for, pitching and defense. Yankees kinda going the same route with Gardner in LF. Taking a hit on offense to get a huge defensive upgrade. Hope they actually put Gardner in CF and Granderson in LF though.

Evil Vito

01-06-2010, 09:49 AM

I don't see it happening now, at least not any time soon. He's the face of the franchise. I think rumors of his availability started when it just so happened that the amount the Reds were trimming salary by happened to be the exact amount Phillips is going to make.

Yeah I figured as much. Trading Phillips at this point would be terrible for the Reds unless some team were to blow them out of the water with an offer. If anything they probably wait until the trading deadline.

RatedGSuperstar

01-06-2010, 10:25 AM

As long as Red Sox fans can look past the strikeouts (something the average Brewers fan never seemed to be able to do, for some reason), they're going to love Cameron. Exactly the type of player that they've grown to love -- hustles on the bases (don't be fooled by low SB numbers last year, because Ken Macha didn't let the Brewers run), goes all out for every ball hit to the outfield, and above average offense for his position. I still think that deal was a steal, and I'll miss him. :(

Evil Vito

01-06-2010, 10:39 AM

Yeah, Cameron is an extremely likable player. Shame his final Mets moment was that awful collision with Beltran.

ClockShot

01-06-2010, 02:17 PM

Eric Hinske to the Braves.

redoneja

01-06-2010, 03:16 PM

Andre Dawson voted into the 2010 Hall of Fame. Roberto Alomar and Bert Blyleven didn't make it. Held back by roughly 5 votes.

Evil Vito

01-06-2010, 03:41 PM

Alomar not getting in on the first ballot is an absolute joke, and is clearly due to his personal life, not his on-field accomplishments

SammyG

01-06-2010, 05:07 PM

yeah, agreed, that is seriously stupid

RatedGSuperstar

01-06-2010, 05:57 PM

Keeping Robbie Alomar out for any reason, whether it's the spitting incident or a group of writers spewing garbage about him not being a "first-ballot Hall of Fame player," is just stupid.

Voting Dawson in at all is stupid, too, let alone as the only member of his class. He's not an all-time great, and this just reeks of the writers saying, "Shit, we voted in Jim Rice...now we can't keep Dawson out."

And Barry Larkin really got screwed with the percentage of votes he got. If he played in a bigger city than Cincinnati, people would be calling him one of the greatest shortstops ever.

Triple Naitch

01-06-2010, 06:36 PM

Last week Jack McCafferty was on ESPN Radio Philly and he read his Hall of Fame ballot. He kept Alomar off the ballot, calling him a disgrace to the game for spitting on an umpire, but included Mark McGwire and even acknowledged that he believes McGwire used steroids. Haven't been that mad at the radio in a long time.

RatedGSuperstar

01-06-2010, 06:43 PM

Nevermind the fact that the ump Alomar spit on has long since forgiven him and touted him for the Hall of Fame, while McGwire still isn't talking. You gotta love backwards sportswriter logic.

FakeLaser

01-06-2010, 06:58 PM

HOF voting is a joke this year.

Andre Dawson career .323 OBP gets in?

I never understood why Blyleven isn't in. 287 wins (SIXTY shutouts) for a last place team, more 1-0 victories than anyone in baseball history, 5th all time in strikeouts. You know who has more shutouts than him? Walter Johnson, Pete Alexander, Christy Matthewson, Cy Young, Eddie Plank, Warren Spahn, Nolan Ryan and Tom Seaver. That's IT.

Roberto Alomar was one of the best second basemen of all time. Ridiculous snubbing.

Barry Larkin I feel should be in, great shortstop. He'll get in in a few years.

Please drop Jack Morris from the ballot, will be mad pissed if he gets in. If Jack Morris gets in Mike Mussina is guaranteed in.

Throwing my support behind Edgar Martinez also. Great hitter, best DH of all time.

Tim Raines and Alan Trammel are borderline for me but they both should probably get in.

Emperor Smeat

01-06-2010, 07:00 PM

FakeLaser

01-06-2010, 07:02 PM

Also all of the steroid era players should get in. They juiced when it wasn't enforced and was as much of a part of the game as cracker jacks and God Bless America. They cheated, but everyone cheated so the playing field was pretty balanced. The best steroid injected players amongst a league of steroid injected players were still the best players of the era. Pretty sure it wasn't just Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa and Alex Rodriguez who juiced. Guillermo Mota, David Segui, Armando Rias, Jeremy Giambi and Nook Logan were pretty pedestrian no?

FakeLaser

01-06-2010, 07:07 PM

Next year might be even more tougher for Alomar and Blyleven since ESPN said the big names comming in will be Rafael Palmeiro, Juan Gonzalez, Larry Walker, Jeff Bagwell, John Franco and Kevin Brown.

Blyleven should make it since he was just 5 votes away.
Palmeiro won't get in for lying under oath.

Juan Gonzalez - 434 HR and 2 MVP awards... borderline, gets in eventually.

Larry Walker was too Coors field enhanced.

Bagwell is a slam dunk first ballot HOF.

John Franco and Kevin Brown have no chance.

Next year we'll have Bagwell, Alomar and Blyleven in. Barry Larkin will come close.

Emperor Smeat

01-06-2010, 07:38 PM

Evil Vito

01-06-2010, 07:43 PM

Looking at the list of first-time eligibles for next year, I do have to say I feel bad for Johnny Franco. 4th all time in saves (and was only the 2nd to get to 400 saves)...but the longevity factor ultimately is gonna spell doom for him. Had he hung 'em up after 1999 when he already had 400 saves and Armando Benitez was to be the new closer, I think he would have definitely gotten in. He might have even gotten in if he had retired after Tommy John surgery in '01. But those extra years after that I think fucked up his chances.

Looking forward to the Class of 2013...which will likely include Mike Piazza :love: HOPEFULLY the first guy to go in as a Met since Seaver

Triple Naitch

01-06-2010, 08:03 PM

Was thinking about this earlier. What cap should Randy Johnson wear in Cooperstown? D'Backs or Mariners?

RatedGSuperstar

01-06-2010, 08:20 PM

I think it's easily Arizona. He won a World Series and 4 of his 5 Cy Youngs there. His numbers in Seattle were good but not incredible...his numbers in Arizona were.

Strikeout totals during his first tour in Arizona:
1999 - 364
2000 - 347
2001 - 372
2002 - 334
2003 - 125 (only 114 IP)
2004 - 290 (as a 40 year old).

He spent slightly more time with Seattle, but his most memorable moments came in Arizona.

FakeLaser

01-06-2010, 08:21 PM

I doubt the writers going to put in 3 players in a single year since they almost never do it. Blyleven should be able to get the necessary votes easily and Alomar should get the small boost needed but after that the usual splits start occurring.
Alomar needs like 5 more votes to get in. He gets in.

Was thinking about this earlier. What cap should Randy Johnson wear in Cooperstown? D'Backs or Mariners?
Definitely D'Backs, has his ring with them, 4 of his 5 Cy Youngs and definitely the best years of his career.

FakeLaser

01-06-2010, 08:23 PM

Randy Johnson had 5 great years with the Mariners. He had 5 of the greatest seasons ever by a pitcher with the D-Backs. Best lefty of all time potentially.

FakeLaser

01-06-2010, 08:48 PM

God, still don't get Andre Dawson's induction. His OPS is BARELY .800 for his career. How does he get in over Alomar or Blyleven?

Jesus Shuttlesworth

01-06-2010, 09:42 PM

Never got the big deal about the Hall of Fame in any sport. Obviously its a huge accomplishment but at the same time its a bunch of writers making the votes, no?

Emperor Smeat

01-06-2010, 09:50 PM

Not all of them, some also include the actual players who entered the Hall (Players Committee) or a mixture of players and historians (Veterans Comittee).

The tradition of writers being the 1st to vote in baseball was because some of the earliest stat trackers were writers who used to keep track of the stats when they talked about players in newspapers. Since they were the primary analysts in the beginning, they were able to track how well a player would be hitting or pitching in any given point of the year.

YOUR Hero

01-06-2010, 10:10 PM

I'm glad The Hawk made it into the HOF.

Miotch

01-06-2010, 10:20 PM

Fucking Blyleven screwed once again.

Evil Vito

01-06-2010, 10:44 PM

LOL Matt Holliday's new deal is Bobby Bonilla all over again:

As part of his new seven year, $120MM contract, Matt Holliday will be collecting paychecks from the Cardinals through 2029 according to the AP (via SI.com). As you know, the contract calls for a $17MM annual salary through 2016 with an option for 2017, however $2MM is deferred without interest each season. Depending on whether or not the option is picked up/vests, Holliday will be paid either $1.4MM or $1.6MM on July 15th every year from 2020 to 2029.

Just for some perspective, Holliday will be 49 years old on July 15th, 2029.

YOUR Hero

01-06-2010, 10:58 PM

Sounds like a great pension plan

YOUR Hero

01-06-2010, 10:59 PM

Besides they gotta have some $$ left n the bank come 2011 when Pujols is eligible for free agency

McLegend

01-06-2010, 11:08 PM

I don't understand why more athletes don't go the deferment route.

Some of the 93 Phillies tried to get deferments so the team could get some big free agent who possibly was Barry Bonds. The Phillies front office said "no" though.

Supreme Olajuwon

01-07-2010, 02:43 AM

Randy Johnson had 5 great years with the Mariners. He had 5 of the greatest seasons ever by a pitcher with the D-Backs. Best lefty of all time potentially.

IMO

1. Koufax
2. Carlton
3. Spahn
4. Grove
5. Johnson

Evil Vito

01-07-2010, 10:26 AM

Besides they gotta have some $$ left n the bank come 2011 when Pujols is eligible for free agency

Yeah, I see no way the Cardinals let Pujols hit the market, they are likely gonna work on extension constantly throughout the final two years of his contract, probably will wind up netting like $200 M.

There was an article on ESPN saying the fucking Yankees are mulling saving up two years in advance to try and get Pujols if he hits the market. Fortunately, I don't think Pujols would want to be reduced to a DH when he is a Gold Glove caliber defender...but UGH the thought of Albert going to the Yankees sickens me. I'd probably stop watching baseball.

ClockShot

01-07-2010, 12:07 PM

The Aroldis Chapman Sweepstakes may be drawing to a close pretty soon. Astros, Yanks, Mets, and Marlins are all out of it.

Red Sox got the only solid offer on the table at the moment.

Evil Vito

01-07-2010, 02:51 PM

Fuck, just realized that Piazza is eligible to go in the same year as Bonds and Clemens. Barring something drastic changing in the next couple of years, neither of those two will get in on the first ballot...and so poor Mike's induction will probably get overlooked by Bonds/Clemens' non-induction. :mad:

Supreme Olajuwon

01-07-2010, 02:55 PM

Well not as overlooked as he would've been if they did get inducted, so take that as a victory.

Supreme Olajuwon

01-07-2010, 04:09 PM

Tony LaRussa says he'd consider adding McGwire to his postseason roster this year to have him as a pinch hitter. Genius.

Evil Vito

01-07-2010, 04:40 PM

Well not as overlooked as he would've been if they did get inducted, so take that as a victory.

True. The only question with Mike is what hat he'll wear on his plaque. I think his numbers with the Dodgers are only slightly better, slight enough that the fact that he's widely regarded as one of the Top 3 Mets in history and most of his milestones came as a Met will probably be enough to make him the 2nd player to go in as a Met. If his #31 still hasn't been retired by then, I think it might happen in 2013 to go along with his induction.

Evil Vito

01-07-2010, 04:41 PM

Tony LaRussa says he'd consider adding McGwire to his postseason roster this year to have him as a pinch hitter. Genius.

Hmm, if Mark does pinch-hit, that will reset his HoF clock making it so he won't be eligible again until 2016. 5 more years for the public and press to forget his transgressions and rebuild his image. LaRussa is a diabolical genius!

Droford

01-07-2010, 04:42 PM

Roy Firestone (yes, the real Roy Firestone) posted this over at the Orioles Blog/Forum I go to:

Apparently there were blank ballots turned in by some sportswriters. A blank ballot either means that no one is deserving of the HOF this year(stupid) or there is some kind of personal vendetta against a player(small and petty).
I want everyone on this board to know something from me very few people know about Robby Alomar.
The 'spitting incident', if it indeed cost him a first ballot selection into the HOF, was a character BUILDER for Roberto.
Since that horrendous act in 1996,Robby has quietly generated tens of thousands of dollars to John Hirschbeck's ALD fund. That fund raises money for the horrible, incurable disease that cost John Hirschbeck's son John, his life.
His other son, Mark also has the disease and is in remission.
Robby not only donated signed items and his time, but lobbied for other players to stand together for John's funding drive.
Roberto has forged a nice friendship with John and John only speaks highly of Roberto. I know this story well because I was host of several of John's fundraisers and saw it all first hand.
Anyone who would withold a vote for a clearly worthy HOF candidate like Robby Alomar, especially over this ugly incident..is either petty or ignorant of the entire story.
If someone called themselves a writer and didnt know the whole story, they, not Alomar, are not worthy of the HOF ballot.

Triple Naitch

01-09-2010, 12:04 AM

Ed Wade signs Brett Myers to the Houston Phillies.

McLegend

01-09-2010, 12:07 AM

That's hilarious.

Evil Vito

01-09-2010, 01:52 AM

Mets claim Jay Marshall off waivers from the A's

Atrocious big league numbers, only real positive seems to be that he had great numbers against lefties in the minor leagues...whatever that's worth. He could crack the Opening Day bullpen if he has a good spring facing lefties...Mets could really use another lefty out there. Feliciano's great but so many times last year the Mets would be playing the Phillies, they'd use Feliciano to get out Utley, Howard, and Ibanez...but then have to face that trio again later and were forced to use a righty.

Loose Cannon

01-09-2010, 02:12 AM

IMO

1. Koufax
2. Carlton
3. Spahn
4. Grove
5. Johnson

:y:

Grove is #1 though in my book

Supreme Olajuwon

01-09-2010, 02:39 AM

Ah Lefty Grove. The man who beat Lou Gehrig for the MVP in 1931.

184 RBI, 163 R, 211 hits and you come in second place? Ouch

SammyG

01-09-2010, 05:58 PM

Nah man, Koufax was the best

DaveWadding

01-09-2010, 06:04 PM

Koufax is overrated.

SammyG

01-09-2010, 06:07 PM

Explain.

SammyG

01-09-2010, 06:08 PM

<table class="infobox bordered vcard" style="width: 25em; text-align: left; font-size: 95%;"><tbody><tr><th colspan="2" style="background: rgb(220, 220, 220) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; text-align: center; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;">Career highlights and awards</th> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">

6× All-Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game) selection (1961 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1962 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1962_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1963 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1964 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1965 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1965_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1966 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game))
4× World Series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Series) champion (1955 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1955_World_Series), 1959 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1959_World_Series), 1963 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_World_Series), 1965 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1965_World_Series))
3× Cy Young Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cy_Young_Award) winner (1963, 1965, 1966)
1963 NL MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NL_MVP)
2× World Series MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Series_MVP) (1963, 1965)
4× NL TSN Pitcher of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NL_TSN_Pitcher_of_the_Year) (1963, 1964, 1965, 1966)
2× Babe Ruth Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_Ruth_Award) (1963, 1965)
1966 Hutch Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutch_Award)
Pitched a perfect game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_game) on September 9, 1965
Los Angeles Dodgers #32 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Dodgers#Retired_Numbers) retired
Major League Baseball All-Century Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_All-Century_Team)

</td> </tr> <tr> <th colspan="2" style="background: rgb(165, 0, 36) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; text-align: center; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;">Member of the National (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Baseball_Hall_of_Fame_and_Museum)</th> </tr> <tr> <th colspan="2" style="background: rgb(17, 34, 91) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; text-align: center; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/Empty_Star.svg/20px-Empty_Star.svg.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/Empty_Star.svg/20px-Empty_Star.svg.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/Empty_Star.svg/20px-Empty_Star.svg.png Baseball Hall of Fame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Baseball_Hall_of_Fame_and_Museum) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/Empty_Star.svg/20px-Empty_Star.svg.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/Empty_Star.svg/20px-Empty_Star.svg.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/Empty_Star.svg/20px-Empty_Star.svg.png</th> </tr> <tr> <th style="text-align: right;">Induction </th> <td> 1972 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_in_baseball)</td> </tr> <tr> <th style="text-align: right;">Vote </th> <td> 86.87% (first ballot)</td></tr></tbody></table>
k bye

SammyG

01-09-2010, 06:22 PM

Fail.

DaveWadding

01-09-2010, 06:23 PM

</PRE>
<PRE>
Year Age Tm Lg W L W-L% ERA G GS IP H BB SO ERA+ WHIP BB/9 SO/9 SO/BB
1955 19 BRO NL 2 2 .500 3.02 12 5 41.2 33 28 30 135 1.464 6.0 6.5 1.07
1956 20 BRO NL 2 4 .333 4.91 16 10 58.2 66 29 30 82 1.619 4.4 4.6 1.03
1957 21 BRO NL 5 4 .556 3.88 34 13 104.1 83 51 122 107 1.284 4.4 10.5 2.39
1958 22 LAD NL 11 11 .500 4.48 40 26 158.2 132 105 131 92 1.494 6.0 7.4 1.25
1959 23 LAD NL 8 6 .571 4.05 35 23 153.1 136 92 173 104 1.487 5.4 10.2 1.88
1960 24 LAD NL 8 13 .381 3.91 37 26 175.0 133 100 197 101 1.331 5.1 10.1 1.97
</PRE>
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com (http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/sharing.shtml): View Original Table (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/koufasa01.shtml#pitching_simple)
Generated 1/9/2010.

DaveWadding

01-09-2010, 06:27 PM

Please explain how Koufax can be the greatest lefty of all time when he was never better than average for half his career.

DaveWadding

01-09-2010, 06:30 PM

honestly, if this were the 1st half of a pitcher's career starting in 1995, they would say he was on the juice.

Skippord

01-09-2010, 08:01 PM

clearly Lefty Grove was the best Left handed pitcher ever

his name was Lefty after all

Loose Cannon

01-09-2010, 08:53 PM

so was Lefty Gomez and Lefty Williams.

EPIC FAIL

Skippord

01-09-2010, 08:56 PM

3 way tie

ClockShot

01-09-2010, 09:21 PM

Vladimir Guerrero to the Rangers. 1-year, $5 mil. with incentives with an '11 option.

Evil Vito

01-09-2010, 09:50 PM

AL West is gonna be hella interesting next year

YOUR Hero

01-09-2010, 10:07 PM

Vlad is declining, mostly because of his health issues. I'd love to see him get it back in Texas

Emperor Smeat

01-09-2010, 10:41 PM

At first I thought him moving to Rangers would be a bad move compared to him being used to going to the playoffs with the Angels but then remembered Angels refused to pay for his injury prone/declining numbers so it made sense for him to move.

Texas biggest problem is defense and pitching (defense more than pitching) but Vlad does provide enough spark on batting even if he's just used as a DH.

Off-topic note: How come no baseball or sports players is ever named Righty but there is a bunch of Lefty as a name ?

Droford

01-10-2010, 01:53 AM

The Real World Series (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/World-Series-champs-against-Japanese-champs-It-;_ylt=AiMeOp4wdeBnTMP0_pWcA04RvLYF?urn=mlb,212323)?

im not really interested..sorry

Supreme Olajuwon

01-10-2010, 02:00 AM

The matchup this year is actually something I'd like to see. The Yankees vs. the Yomiuri Giants. Any other matchup, ehhhhh I don't really care.

Evil Vito

01-10-2010, 02:04 AM

Never gonna happen, and if it does...the Japanese team would win. They would actually care about it, and big names from the WS-winning team that are about to hit free agency wouldn't take the risk of injury in a non-MLB game.

Triple Naitch

01-10-2010, 11:08 AM

Whatever happened to when at the end of the year they had an MLB All-Star team play a Japanese All-Star team? MLB Network could be all over that.

Evil Vito

01-10-2010, 11:26 AM

Also, no disrespect intended to the Japanese leagues, but it's widely known that their quality of play is about AAA level with the exception of a few guys (Yu Darvish, etc.)

Yeah they won the WBC twice, but everybody knows that tourney takes place when most of the players aren't even ready. If they beat the WS champs, it could potentially make MLB look bad. Japan has everything to gain and nothing to lose.

Evil Vito

01-10-2010, 11:28 AM

Khalil Greene to the Rangers. 1 year, $750,000

Supreme Olajuwon

01-10-2010, 03:31 PM

The Aroldis Chapman sweepstakes takes an unexpected turn. The new frontrunner is allegedly the CINCINNATI REDS

what the fuck

Heros Welcome

01-10-2010, 03:47 PM

1:34pm: Jeff Blair from the Toronto Globe and Mail tweets that he's hearing that Chapman signing with the Reds at five years and $30MM is a done deal.

Triple Naitch

01-10-2010, 03:54 PM

Chapman could thrive in a smaller stage, such as Cincy. He'd get eaten alive out of the gate for NY, BOS, LA, or PHI.

Supreme Olajuwon

01-10-2010, 03:54 PM

30 million for a minor leaguer

where is this money coming from and why couldn't you go buy a good free agent with it

Evil Vito

01-10-2010, 05:31 PM

If there's any good thing about the deal, it's that it's 5 years. He doesn't seem to be too far away from being big league ready...so they should get at LEAST 3 years of big league production, probably more. Some teams were trying to sign him for like 2 years which would have been retarded because he would have just bolted for free agency if he seemed to be any good.

Supreme Olajuwon

01-10-2010, 05:48 PM

The contract should be structured so he gets the big money after harang and arroyo are off the books but still why didn't they have this money during the winter meetings

Heros Welcome

01-10-2010, 05:54 PM

Maybe before signing Chapman on, they managed to advance talks with a team to deal away Harang or Arroyo to dump that money off their books? Thats what I would think since all we have heard is how the Reds are money tied or trying to unload bigger contracts.

FakeLaser

01-10-2010, 11:53 PM

I like the signing for the Reds, they don't need a big free agent now because they suck cock. They have multiple holes to fill with mediocre free agents and aren't close to contending next year. They should try and deal Cordero at the deadline for a prospect or two to a team in contention who needs a reliever. Build around Votto and Bruce, they have a young core of position players.

In a few years you have a rotation of Volquez, Cueto, Chapman, Homer Bailey and maybe a nice veteran arm. Better than signing Johnny Damon or something stupid.

Supreme Olajuwon

01-11-2010, 01:22 AM

Yes, that is the standard reply of someone who's never watched a Reds game, but the fact is they are very close to contending. They are a shortstop and left fielder away from having a contending team.

YOUR Hero

01-11-2010, 10:54 AM

Reds are already rising, FRZ

YOUR Hero

01-11-2010, 10:55 AM

...still like this signing.

Evil Vito

01-11-2010, 01:51 PM

Yeah, the Reds definitely have a shot. At this point I don't think Harang or Arroyo will be dealt unless they are way behind near the trade deadline.

Supreme Olajuwon

01-11-2010, 04:10 PM

I guess I should elaborate on my position a bit. I'm not against the signing. I love that they're doing this and spending money. What got me all agitated was the way the front office has griped about not having any money, having to cut payroll, not being able to spend in the offseason and us Reds fans accepted that they weren't going to make any moves. Then this comes out of nowhere.

Supreme Olajuwon

01-11-2010, 04:17 PM

The Reds rotation doesn't have a superstar, but it has 5 quality starters all capable of being great and capable of winning every time they take the mound. How many teams can say that about their entire rotation? The Braves, Red Sox, Phillies, maybe the Yankees. And the Reds

Evil Vito

01-11-2010, 04:25 PM

In the world of "no shit" and "about time"...McGwire officially admits to using steroids throughout most of the 90's.

SammyG

01-11-2010, 04:25 PM

SHOCKER

Supreme Olajuwon

01-11-2010, 04:34 PM

McGwire is the first to come forward without getting caught that I can think of so in that regard you have to respect him. Still, this should completely bar any chance of getting into the Hall and unfortunately that punishment will probably deter anyone else of coming clean on their own.

Jeritron

01-11-2010, 04:55 PM

I think he came out for his own personal peace, and put integrity over his hall of fame concerns. I respect that.
I also respect virtually everything he's done thus far, aside from the steroids. He made a stupid decision in a time where he was younger and it was running rampant.

He was never comfortable with the accolades and attention, and seemed tortured by it before he ever broke the record. I believe it when he says he's genuinely sorry, and wishes he was never a part of that era. I don't see him as a liar or coward like I see most of the others. I think coming clean at the expense of HOF consideration speaks more positively for him today than not. Clemens and Bonds have been forced to tell the truth, and they chose not to. With no evidence or pressure to come out of hiding, he did so anyways.

Everyone seems to think of him as a class act in life. I think it sucks what has happened to him. It sucks that he shouldered most of the negativity after the congressional hearings. Why? Because he was genuinely ashamed of the situation and had the class not to lie? Palmeiro and Sosa were far more despicable.

Jeritron

01-11-2010, 04:57 PM

Also, I think McGwire's most impressive record is still his 49hr rookie season, which according to his blunt apologies came before any steroid use.

Supreme Olajuwon

01-11-2010, 05:06 PM

The interesting thing about McGwire is that so many of his homeruns were absolute bombs that you've gotta think even without the juice he could've hit at least 400. Especially with that swing of his

DaveWadding

01-11-2010, 05:11 PM

Palmeiro and Sosa were far more despicable.

No hablo ingles.

Splaya

01-11-2010, 05:15 PM

Wait a minute, didn't Mcgqire say on the witness stand that he denied using steroids

Jeritron

01-11-2010, 05:16 PM

He was absolutely a talented home run hitter. I don't think he was enhanced fully as much as a Sosa or Canseco.
I also don't think he was the hitter that Bonds or Palmerio are, but he was truly great.
Would he have hit 583 without the juice? Probably not, but I can see a guy who hits so powerfully in his rookie years going on to hit 400-500 hrs. He definitely had the skills.
Also, for all the home runs that were tacked onto his total, there were also years taken off his career. So who knows.

So he'll likely never get into the Hall of Fame, and that's fair. He'll pay for his mistakes but I think the guy can hang his hat on the fact that he made a mistake and responded to it with class. From the sounds of it everyone in baseball thinks hes the greatest guy ever and only think higher of him because of this.
Plus, the Hall of Fame isn't everything. Pete Rose isn't in the Hall. He'll never be forgotten. Mark McGwire was such a massive star, and did so much for baseball at the time. I don't think he'll be a part of the hall but I think he'll always be a part of baseball and Cooperstown.

Jeritron

01-11-2010, 05:18 PM

I had just heard that they had made a massive statue of McGwire for The Hall that they were waiting to unveil. It was going to join Ruth and Williams.

ClockShot

01-11-2010, 05:20 PM

Not surprised. The truth was probably eating away at him. Just so sudden. He call a press conference or something?

Jeritron

01-11-2010, 05:22 PM

Well it's not entirely sudden. He is starting as the Cardinals hitting coach this season and the media would have probably bothered him about it

ClockShot

01-11-2010, 05:27 PM

I knew that. We'd think he would come clean when he got the job or shortly there after.

Alright, as I'm reading this, Baseball Tonight had him on for an interview about an hour ago and fessed up. Statement went out to the AP, too.

FakeLaser

01-11-2010, 07:49 PM

Good for him, FINALLY

Again, he should be in the HOF.

Jeritron

01-11-2010, 07:56 PM

Him not getting in the HOF is all fine and dandy if it's a punishment that's held consistent. If a guy who admits his mistakes and has class doesn't get in, and a guy like Bonds or Clemens, who deny against all evidence and legality, get in...then that's just a crying shame.

Also, lets be honest here, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that steroid users are already in the hall. Steroids were not invented in the 90s, like everyone ignorantly seems to think. Ricky Henderson? C'mon. Even Andre Dawson was built like an inverted pyramid. Then you have a guy like Cal Ripken, who god forbid he did them, but played in the era and is defined by having an injury-free career. It's not like he didn't get bigger in the late 90s, despite getting older.

FakeLaser

01-11-2010, 09:03 PM

I always thought Ripken juiced

Supreme Olajuwon

01-11-2010, 09:15 PM

This interview is heartbreaking. Costas looks like he's going to cry.

parkmania

01-11-2010, 09:16 PM

Wondering - if Mac was close to having the votes to get in the Hall, would we still have gotten this "heartfelt confession"??

Jeritron

01-11-2010, 09:19 PM

The MLB network writers who are criticizing it are way off. The guy chose to come out and do this, and was completely honest. Very emotional interview.
The only mistake was insinuating that he believes he could have done what he did without steroids, but that's not the worst thing ever. He just believes in himself and his ability. It's a hard thing to admit that. It could be called delusioned but it's not morally wrong, or even different than what anybody with some pride would say.

I think the fire he's put himself under tonight on live TV and the overall confession is testimony enough to his legitimate regret and apology. Plus he was quick to refer to his numbers as not fully authentic, and agree that the Maris family has every right to consider their fathers record intact. He knows what he did was bad, and wishes he didn't do it, but he honestly believes he could have done it purely. So what? If anything that makes it even sadder.