WWE has reportedly "given up" on Ziggler and Swagger

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Source: The Wrestling Observer Newsletter

For those keeping track, Dolph Ziggler has taken part in twenty-six Intercontinental title matches at various events (televised and non-televised) within the past few months, losing all but two. He won one match via count-out with another match being ruled a double count-out. Furthermore, he has come up short in retrieving the title on television on seven different occasions including Night of Champions, SummerSlam, Hell in the Cell and four separate episodes of Friday Night SmackDown!.

Ziggler was at one point scheduled to win the title from Rey Mysterio over the summer, but the high-flying Superstar vetoed dropping the title to him on more than one occasion. When push came to shove as a result of a 30-day suspension for violating the company’s drug testing policy in early September, Mysterio agreed to drop the title to John Morrison.

Now it appears that the ship has sailed on Ziggler nabbing the gold as WWE officials have reportedly “given up on him.”

---

Credit: F4WOnline.com

The latest issue of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that WWE has "given up" on pushing Jack Swagger to superstardom as he has not quite panned out as officials had initially hoped.

When he first showed up on the WWE scene a little over a year ago, "The All-American American" was pegged as the future of the company due to his tremendous size. Nowadays, he's considered a comedy figure ranked slightly lower than Chavo Guerrero on the RAW pecking order. Furthermore, some feel he's in danger of becoming "this year's Chris Masters."

-----------

God I really fucking hate WWE sometimes. They've danced this dance too often in the past. They'll push the hell out of a guy only to change their mind for no legitimate reason. Unreal.</font>

[The Ravishing One]

Thats shit. I was really getting into Ziggler and Swagger.

[The Ravishing One]

Just for the record - both their last names have 2 g's in it.

:shifty:

[kareru]

ziggler is one of the best things about wwe at the moment

[jerichoholicninja]

How has Swagger become a comedy character? Wasn't he just in the breakthrough battle royal on Monday?

[The Mackem]

I love how the fact that Mysterio's refusal to drop leads them to 'give up'.

[LuigiD]

I don't care much for Ziggler but I think Swagger is great. I love the way he moves.
Ironically, I was listening to some interview Kane did yesterday and he said guys like Ziggler have a great future in the company and he really admires what he des :roll: irony.

[Splaya]

First of all, I don't care what the fuck Mysterio has done for wrestling, when they tell you to drop the title for someone to try to help the product, you do it. You don't pick and choose who you want to lose the title to. I was really digging Ziggler but this would explain why Ziggler suddenly dropped Maria.

When it comes to Swagger, I never really cared for him. But this is what happens when you go on a show like RAW instead of SD. EX: MVP

[Perry Saturn]

To be honest i never thought swagger had a chance

[Rammsteinmad]

The article on Ziggler looks like it was written in kayfabe. It's like 'You had 26 chances and have failed to win the IC title, therefore you're history'. Ziggler can only do so much if he's booked to lose IC title matches 26 times in a row.

[Lock Jaw]

How the heck is Swagger a comedy figure ranked lower than Chavo?

When is the last time he did anything funny?

Chavo loses all of his matches. Swagger has been winning most of his, and has been in and out of the US title picture since arriving on Raw.

I guess since he tagged with Masters and Chavo on Raw, that instantly means he is down on their level.

[Lock Jaw]

How the heck is Swagger a comedy figure ranked lower than Chavo?

When is the last time he did anything funny?

Chavo loses all of his matches. Swagger has been winning most of his, and has been in and out of the US title picture since arriving on Raw.

I guess since he tagged with Masters and Chavo on Raw, that instantly means he is down on their level.

[ClockShot]

That mini feud Swagger had going with Bourne was fun. Then you blink your eyes and it was over.

As for Ziggy, looks as though the Post Spirit Squad curse is about to hit him. First Kenny, and now him. I think he can be saved with a change of venue to RAW if he sticks around long enough.

[Londoner]

Ziggler should go to ECW for now.

[ron the dial]

if either of these guys don't make it, it's no fault of their own.

[HBPunk]

How has Swagger become a comedy character? Wasn't he just in the breakthrough battle royal on Monday?

No,he lost his qualifying match. also this report sounds like rubbish,ill wait until hornswaggle and jimmy wang yang squash jack and dolph before believing it

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Swagger is 27 and has only been on TV for 14 months. And he's been good. WWE is so masochistic at times.

[Londoner]

Imagine ziggler v christian for the ecw title.:cool:

[Italian $tallion]

The article on Ziggler looks like it was written in kayfabe. It's like 'You had 26 chances and have failed to win the IC title, therefore you're history'. Ziggler can only do so much if he's booked to lose IC title matches 26 times in a row.

Thank you.

[XCaliber]

Ziggler will be IC champ once Morrison heads into the main event picture I believe but as for Swagger I felt he tad overrated plus his name is kinda lame.

[HBPunk]

Jack Swagger is from Oklahoma and JR has been talking him up for months.JR probly has enough sway in the WWE that like triple h, he himself could get swagger to be pushed.perhaps cos JR's contract is winding down and swagger was on the losing team people are putting 2 and 2 together but i think its adding up to 5 cos i just dont see any reason to lose faith in jack.we will see over the coming weeks where he ends up tho, i guess if he and ziggler are left off TLC there could be some truth to this.I remember Orton was being demoted in 2007 cos he pissed off management but two months later he was world champion,the same was reported about CM Punk but he became world champion too so i wouldn't be suprised if WWE announced a 4 way TLC match between Miz, Mvp, Swagger and Henry(?) with Swagger going over.

[ImpactPlayer365]

I like Swagger...If they are really giving up on him it would be to their own detriment. He might need JR to help him out. Thought they were trying to build new young talent...weird

[Johnny Vegas]

I seriously hope that there is another wrestling company that can get a slot on Mondays and compete with these fuckers because shit like this is why the generation today will not follow this shit for long. They don't have consistent people that they "grew up to" besides Cena, Orton and Batista.

I remember when i was growing up watching wrestling, you had your main players, but then had those people that you still liked and followed until they reached the top. I.E. Ultimate Warrior, Sting, Lex Luger, Bret Hart, HBK. People that weren't shoved in your face today and gone tomorrow. Does the WWE seriously think that stars can be built overnight? I'm sorry, but if Ziggler loses 26 fucking times, who is supposed to take this guy seriously?

Fuck man, and Swagger should've kept that "undefeated streak" thing going b/c people would've tuned into him at least for that. It kills two birds with one stone because it gives him some "credentials" (Goldberg's streak, Brock's youngest WHC, HBK's Grand Slam, etc) and people will actually give a shit about him out of curiousity. Is it just me, or does Sheamus and his relationship with AAA have something to do with all of this? lol i know it sounds retarded but those two i would've definitely put in that battle royal/title shot match on RAW before Sheamus.

[HBPunk]

ya i consider swagger and ziggler as legit since they went toe to toe with Cucking Fena and JoMo respectively so why bury the two brightest young stars?? Sheamus is main eventing a ppv and he gets no reaction from the crowd yet jack/dolph both draw good heat.
By the way in Ireland we spell it 'seamus' so good job WWE, im assuming seamus cant spell anyway

[GD]

This is madness!

[The Fraze]

I have never been impressed with Swagger. I cannot take him seriously. I don't know why anyone praises his size. He looks like a big fuckin goof with pencils for arms. He's not charismatic at all, his taunt looks like he's mentally challenged and wants food, and I don't think he works well in the ring. All only my opinions, to each his or her own. I know he's got supporters, I will never be one of them.

[The Fraze]

They don't have consistent people that they "grew up to" besides Cena, Orton and Batista.

I agree with you there. I thought about your post and I can't even count the times I've talked wrestling with someone and used the phrase, "I grew up with that guy." Whoever that may be. That kind of stuff isn't as prevelent because of the lack of consistent, good characters.

[HBPunk]

I have never been impressed with Swagger. I cannot take him seriously. I don't know why anyone praises his size. He looks like a big fuckin goof with pencils for arms. He's not charismatic at all, his taunt looks like he's mentally challenged and wants food, and I don't think he works well in the ring. All only my opinions, to each his or her own. I know he's got supporters, I will never be one of them.

mentally challenged and wants food,thats fucking priceless :y:
he really really looks retarded

[Johnny Vegas]

I agree with you there. I thought about your post and I can't even count the times I've talked wrestling with someone and used the phrase, "I grew up with that guy." Whoever that may be. That kind of stuff isn't as prevelent because of the lack of consistent, good characters.

And going off of that, lets think about what is here today:

HBK - veteran
HHH - veteran
Kane - veteran
Jericho - veteran
Show - veteran
Mysterio - veteran
Edge -veteran
Taker - veteran
Christian - veteran
Regal - veteran

..get my point? These are people that I grew up to and these people have to be there to keep the ship going. You have people like Swagger & Ziggler, espeically, who definitely have a future with the company and witinin a year and some change, they just "give up". Exactly why UFC is going to put WWE out of business as far as the "physical entertainment" aspect goes.

lol...Steve Austin was wrestling waaaay before the "redneck, i don't give a shit about my boss and do what i want gimmick". See how that turned out? The only wrestler that i can think of that blossomed really quick was The Rock. His character was so awesome though that you had to get into it. Brock, yea...but personally at times i don't even take him seriously because he was only there for a couple of years and was given the spotlight and chose otherwise.

Not to go on a rant, but the Pipers, Hennings, Rudes, Halls, etc had to have been pissed from that.

[Swiss Ultimate]

The article on Ziggler looks like it was written in kayfabe. It's like 'You had 26 chances and have failed to win the IC title, therefore you're history'. Ziggler can only do so much if he's booked to lose IC title matches 26 times in a row.

He could try to injure his opponents in the ring? The problem with that is if he fucks up and they end up being fine, he could get fired like Kennedy.

[Juan]

I call bullshit on both of those articles.

[RGWhat316]

What, so is Rey turning into one of these political pricks now too? I thought I heard a while back that Rey was one of the guys wanting to push the younger guys. Obviously its not Dolph's fault that he is booked to lose these matches, then creative looks back and says he had chances.

I like Swagger as well too, and RAW has just been the burial ground for him, so he should have stayed on ECW longer, or at least went to SD.

[Emperor Smeat]

I'd like to know the exact reason or Rey's thinking on why he refuses to help out Ziggler. The 26 title chances shows the WWE is considering him as a future star or else they would never give him all those chances but the way the article is written seems like the reporter assumes no title win means he must suck.

Swagger seemed to be heading into future main event status with his rise from ECW and initial RAW feuds with Miz, Bourne, and Kofi but that basically ended when they pulled the plug on his "streak" after a few weeks. Reminds me of Santino's "streak" against Honky Tonk Man that ended way too early and since then Santino has been more of a comedic character.

[Johnny McNasty]

That article is shit. Sounds like a 10 year old wrote it. Plus when has Rey ever been said to throw his weight around backstage? Rubbish I tell you.

[Mr. C]

Imagine Jack Swagger vs. John Cena at WrestleMania 26. :yes:

They had a match on RAW earlier this year, and that’s it. This may seem like a bit of a stretch for Swagger, but he can make it to where he needs to for this match to happen and could be really over by WrestleMania.

[XL]

I can only hope the article is false or making unfounded assumptions.

For one, Rey has no place to be saying who he should or shouldn't drop the title to. Although, one thing that makes me think that this article is BS is that surely as soon as Rey gets suspended, they make him drop the belt to Ziggler regardless if he wants to or not.

[Italian $tallion]

This is madness!

Madness.......THIS IS WWE! :mad:

[RatedGSuperstar]

Swagger's mini-slide (dropping the "I'm winning every match for the rest of the year" angle, being put on a horrible team in the battle royal qualifying, etc.) pretty much coincided with Sheamus' debut on Raw. Once the company gets over its infatuation with Sheamus, I'm sure Swagger will get another shot.

On Ziggler, could it be he's having trouble being taken seriously by fans because he has an absolutely ridiculous ring name? I've never liked the Dolph Ziggler name -- just let the guy wrestle as Nic Nemeth. He's good enough to get by on his ability if you let him. Unfortunately it looks like he's on the Shelton Benjamin Track to Midcard Purgatory for the time being.

[redoneja]

Let's just chill the fuck out and see what happens with them over the next few months going into Mania. This is on the level of overreaction over Punk losing a few matches.

[mike adamle]

My favorite part about this is how "Swagger might become this year's Chris Masters" while Chris Masters is currently on the roster.

[KYR]

Source: The Wrestling Observer Newsletter

Now it appears that the ship has sailed on Ziggler nabbing the gold as WWE officials have reportedly “given up on him.”

---

Credit: F4WOnline.com

The latest issue of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that WWE has "given up" on pushing Jack Swagger to superstardom as he has not quite panned out as officials had initially hoped.

Translation: WWE Creative is so uninspired, talentless and visionless but so fearful of their positions that they will simply give up on a wrestler and blame him for his perceived lack of success.

:rant:

[Tazz Dan]

This is discrimination against all male cheerleaders and people with lisps. :mad:

[addy2hotty]

Say what you want, but they look like they're standing still next to Kingston, The Miz and Morrison. Chance or no chance, I don't think either of them would set the world on fire in a big feud at the moment.

I don't think Swagger has the look to be anything more than he is. He needs rebranding. Pull him Raw for a while then have him come back in an Angle type invitational scenario. Every week, he mouths off at the crowd and beats some nobody quickly. He doesn't have the wow factor of a Morrison or Kingston, doesn't have the mic skills of The Miz so is stuck in no-mans land at the moment.

Ziggles is different. He looks like he does have the look, could do with some pyro when he does that hair thing when he comes out and needs to have some matches with someone other than Morrison.

But if it's true about Mysterio - then I hate him even more. If I was Ziggler, I would have taken the drug-midget out.

[Dorkchop]

Push them slowly and see how it ends up. I'm still not too into Swagger yet, but he has lots of potential. It takes time to get into your character and the groove of WWE. he could be main eventing in a couple of years.

[Heyman]

When he first showed up on the WWE scene a little over a year ago, "The All-American American" was pegged as the future of the company due to his tremendous size. Nowadays, he's considered a comedy figure ranked slightly lower than Chavo Guerrero on the RAW pecking order. Furthermore, some feel he's in danger of becoming "this year's Chris Masters."



Swagger is yet another example of a promising talent that flourished in ECW and/or Smackdown and then got buried on RAW.

Juan - you and I were debating this a few weeks ago (i.e. the fallacy of how the brands are 'structured'). We have debated this a lot. Do you have anything to say here?

[Theo Dious]

The article on Ziggler looks like it was written in kayfabe. It's like 'You had 26 chances and have failed to win the IC title, therefore you're history'. Ziggler can only do so much if he's booked to lose IC title matches 26 times in a row.

I think you're reading it wrong, I think it's more a matter of "he's lost this many IC title matches, and that leads us to beleive they've given up on him and he isn't ever going to win it."

[Lock Jaw]

I still fail to see how Swagger has been buried on Raw. He's been doing pretty good for himself as a solid mid-card type.

Kofi was a solid mid-card type just like him until a few weeks ago.

[Funky Fly]

I still fail to see how Swagger has been buried on Raw. He's been doing pretty good for himself as a solid mid-card type.

Kofi was a solid mid-card type just like him until a few weeks ago.

Yup.

[Theo Dious]

I still fail to see how Swagger has been buried on Raw. He's been doing pretty good for himself as a solid mid-card type.

Kofi was a solid mid-card type just like him until a few weeks ago.

Swagger's situation sounds to me like another "he was at the top of a show a few months ago, and now he isn't in main event fueds therefore 'he'z beeing berried coz teh WWE is gay'" situation.

[Xero]

Translation: WWE Creative is so uninspired, talentless and visionless but so fearful of their positions that they will simply give up on a wrestler and blame him for his perceived lack of success.

:rant:

If he were successful, it's Vince's victory.

If he failed, it's the writer's fault.

Lose-lose to be honest.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>And some other things to go along with this...though the opposite:

---

Credit: F4WOnline.com

Part of why WWE is pushing Kofi Kingston to the top if because they feel they need another African-American babyface star and they had given up on several other stars that were picked for the spot.

The other two stars who WWE have the most faith in right now are Sheamus, who is a workout partner of Triple H, and Drew McIntyre, who Triple H and Shawn Michaels have endorsed.

---

So Kofi is only getting this huge push now because he's black they gave up on giving MVP or Henry that spot...should have known his exciting in-ring work wasn't the reason he was getting the spot.

and Sheamus/Drew, while talented, would not be where they are without the DX endorsements. Glad to see politics still alive and well in WWE.</font>

[Funky Fly]

Truth be told tho, Mark Henry, despite how good he's been lately, has no business holding a world title. He should be what Kane is: the beatable monster. Beatable, but still no one to fuck with.

MVP is really charismatic, and he's a lot more entertaining than during his power ranger days. Dude should be the next Chris Jericho. Tease the title wins and build him up as able to hang with the main eventers, without actually being in the main event.

I believe I've made occasional mention of the 2 tiered midcard of the Attitude Era and how good it was.

[HBPunk]

I think MVP woulda been awesome during the attitude era,he was good on the mic as a heel and he has an attitude,if we werent in a pg world MVP would be rolling right now.
I dont agree with vito 22 about the race thing cos evan bourne is getting a lot of time on Raw and hes a tiny white guy,colour has nothing to do with talent

[Funky Fly]

Too bad MVP was in prison during the Attitude Era

[HBPunk]

Too bad MVP was in prison during the Attitude Era

Apparently MVP gave such good head in prison he was awarded a replica WWF Championship belt so technically he wore the WWF Title during the attutude era

[KYR]

What?

[Gertner]

This really sucks about Swagga! I LOVE him.

[Fabien Barthez]

I think this is a product, obviously of poor booking and character progression... but moreso of the roster split. Being as each roster is so shallow, you can be 4 places either way in the pecking order and be on the cusp of the main event, to virtually a jobber. If they had each roster with say 5 exclusive show stars, and the rest on both shows, or even all 3.... they could show progression through the ranks more clearly and let a string of results get the guy over. Kurt Angle's first year in WWE was awesome, because he had 8 or 9 different guys, each getting more challenging to fued with. How could anybody get the same thing on one brand thesedays?

Anyway, my question is why are so many of the younger talent heels? It's blaitant by definition that ultimately, they are going to lose alot of their battles and when it comes to establishing wrestlers to the fans and getting them over as mainstays, getting those victories is important, and conditioning the crowds to cheer you can only help, unless you are a very good heel, which takes the right kind of personality, which I don't really think Swagger or Ziggler are. You know, if they more often than not lose, and they aren't the best heatseekers on the roster, they are dead in the water.

[Emperor Smeat]

Another issue is how much do the RAW writers suffer from treating youth wrestlers as personal pet projects or "toys" that last as long as they are interested and not how good or bad the young wrestler is. They had that problem for a while where it seemed every new wrestler was given maybe a month for a push or feud then dropped in favor of a new wrestler.

With the way ECW is structured and how it has fewer wrestlers, it would be harder for something like this to occur and Smackdown seems to be very focused and planned out when its using wrestlers.

[Skippord]

I think giving the guy with a lisp a last name that starts with S is a bit uncool of them

[Kane Knight]

I still fail to see how Swagger has been buried on Raw. He's been doing pretty good for himself as a solid mid-card type.

Kofi was a solid mid-card type just like him until a few weeks ago.

To be fair, Punk was "in the doghouse" like 500 times since debuting in WWE, so just keep that in mind.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, I can't get behind these stories. People were calling "buried" on Ziggler the moment he didn't win the IC Title. It seemed to me like Michael Hayes was just making Ziggler work for the eventual title win. And he's gotten to the stage where Ziggler winning the title is just not as interesting as him not winning it. I agree that he needs a new program, though.

Granted, Ziggler was eliminated quickly at Survivor Series, but just prior to that, he technically got to pin the IC Champion with his finishing move in a 2/3 Falls Match. This was also a really solid match, quality-wise. Ziggler is just in a transference period, where he needs to find the next angle to wow in. Perhaps someone can start banging Maria, and Ziggler can take exception? The dude needs to be rebuilt with a few wins over guys like Jimmy Wang Yang, though (which would be good matches).

As for Swagger -- I think he has definitely lost a lot of his love, but the WWE has been very give-and-take with him. The dude has not been treated like a jobber yet, and there is no way he is below Chavo Guerrero on the pecking order. Sheamus is getting a push over him, but so what? Eventually Swagger's ring work will be noticed again, and he will once again be pushed. Next year he will probably end up on the SmackDown! roster and will again be seen as a "future main eventer."

[RatedGSuperstar]

For what it's worth, I just caught the Superstars replay tonight and during the R-Truth/Ziggler match they mentioned that Ziggy is "in the 5th month of a 6-month plan to become a champion" and repeatedly brought up the new issue of WWE magazine which apparently features him in an article about "the champions of tomorrow."

If anything, it looks like we might be closer to a Ziggler IC title win than we were a few months ago. Like I said before, I have a lot of confidence in his ability. As long as he keeps bringing the goods in the ring, he'll be fine. If anything, his IC title win has probably been delayed due to the title being put on the back burner in favor of the cross-brand Miz/Morrison feud between Bragging Rights and Survivor Series.

[Afterlife]

Yeah. I'm not sure I buy this yet.

[Destor]

...lol, I totally haven't missed the dirt sheets.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

who cares

[Impeccable]

Should just change their names to Ziggles and Swaggles and form a tag team. Then they can be a comedy tag team in the joke of a tag division.

[Sixx]

Niggles.

[Hanso Amore]

Should just change their names to Ziggles and Swaggles and form a tag team. Then they can be a comedy tag team in the joke of a tag division.

Swagger and HornSwoggle

Swaggle and Swoggle

[GD]

Dammit! Fuck you Ryan Clark!

[Impeccable]

:Swagger and HornSwoggle

Swaggle and Swoggle

Seriously dude, unless we actually want to watch that, I suggest we stop now...I'm sure writers trawl the net for stuff! :lol:

[Hanso Amore]

We could have a skit where Swaggle and Swoggle play Boggle and make boondoggle while they oggle a girl in goggles and toggle.....fuck thats all I got

[Lock Jaw]

With some Fraggles.

[Loose Cannon]

Obviously those articles are stretching the truth, but I could see some truth to it, especially with Swagger. I keep saying it over and over and we keep seeing it over and over. Guys are pushed like crazy for a bit and then the WWE just pushes them back down again. It's certainly happened with Swagger. "Given Up" is not the proper terms just yet with him, but you can easily see a fall.


With Ziggler, I never saw him making it to the top anyway, so he is always going to be in the mid card and probably let go within 2 years.


And with the WWE being by FAR the only wreslting show in town, we will continue to see the push/quick depush of younger talent. The midcard has such a high turnover

[Afterlife]

Obviously those articles are stretching the truth, but I could see some truth to it, especially with Swagger. I keep saying it over and over and we keep seeing it over and over. Guys are pushed like crazy for a bit and then the WWE just pushes them back down again. It's certainly happened with Swagger. "Given Up" is not the proper terms just yet with him, but you can easily see a fall.


With Ziggler, I never saw him making it to the top anyway, so he is always going to be in the mid card and probably let go within 2 years.


And with the WWE being by FAR the only wreslting show in town, we will continue to see the push/quick depush of younger talent. The midcard has such a high turnover

It's called being drafted to Raw.

[Stealth-Icon]

:y:R-V-D:y:

[HBPunk]

that whole 'mr.ziggles' chant could have killed ziggler and morrisons careers there and then, WORST....CHANT...EVER

[Mr. Nerfect]

Are you kidding? "Mr. Ziggles" reminded me of how Edge got the fans to chant "You suck!" during Kurt Angle's entrance. It gives the fans something to latch themselves to, and allows the fans a personal way of giving the character heat.

[Kane Knight]

that whole 'mr.ziggles' chant could have killed ziggler and morrisons careers there and then, WORST....CHANT...EVER

*clap clap clap clap clap*