WWE needs a face faction
 

Why don't we get face faction's anymore??? im so sick of gang attack beat downs like the Corre Vs Big Show or Orton/Cena vs Nexus.
John Morrison or a face version of Dolph Ziggler could start a faction.
The results are 10 (or 8) guys have ready made feuds with each other, they can mix and match wrestling each other in singles and tag matches for months, it stays fresh and 10 (or 8) guys have a better chance of getting over. What dya think?

Nah, pretty bored of factions tbh.

I tihnk the last face faction was "The Union"

Here's a fun little game, name one uber successful face stable that didn't first start off as a heels.

It's hard to put people in a faction for a reason that doesn't make them look a little cowardly and heelish.

Hogan definitely was not being cheered at Bash at the Beach 96. Also, when DX was just Michaels, Helmsley, Chyna, and Rude, they were being booed as well. That was always my favorite DX, though.

the nWo were not faces from day one, they had a following sure but they were not faces look at Bash at the Beach Hogan,Hall and Nash had garbage being thrown at them.

DX success as a face stable came from 6 months of build as cool heels. NAO were built as cool heels as well and already well established when they joined DX

The 3 most successful face stables all started as heels, which is my point, just starting a stable off as Faces rarely works

The nWo guys just got pops when they made their entrances and cut their promos because they were "cool heels" but still, the fans booed them during matches and cheered for the WCW guys to win.

Exactly

A year ago people were bitching that there are no factions. You get them, and then want more.

Because most of them were very good at their jobs. The initial reaction to them was still 'SHIT NWO YEAAAHHHH'.

Exactly what? You haven't made any variety of point here.

I said the most successful face stables all started off as heel, thus were able to develop that cool heel feel which then got them over as faces later on.

Hell this applies to fucking single stars too.

The Rock got his first break as a heel
Steve Austin started getting over as a heel
Triple H Heel
Undertaker heel
even John Cena only really started getting over as heel.

Are you guys trying to say that The Union wasn't successful?

Yes

Though I'd like to note that even the Union was a spin off of a heel stable 3/4 of Union members came directly from The Corporation

4 floundering wrestlers with 2x4s can't be wrong.

Don't forget a great theme song *Whistle toot* UNION!

I wonder if Legacy could work as faces?.....if they re-united to take on Nexus?

Orton is pretty over with the fans, and it probably wouldn't take much to convert Rhodes and Dibiase....especially if they are battling Nexus. Rhodes and Dibiase never really took off after leaving Legacy from what I understand (I haven't watched much wrestling over this past year).

Re-uniting Rhodes and Dibase might be the best thing for both men.

Nah Cody's got his own thing going quite well on Smackdown.

Is it really going "quite well?" Maybe it's just me but I thought Rhodes and Dibiase were far more over as members of Legacy. Both characters seem to have regressed quite a bit upon leaving.

Cody Rhodes is more over now than he has ever been.

Oh ok. I haven't watched Wrestling much and so I didn't know. I'm a little surprised that Rhodes has experienced more success than Dibiase. It seems like the WWE has really shit the bed with Teddy.

I have to ask...

If you have no idea what's going on with wrestling, why are you even here?

Rock had people chanting "DIE ROCKY DIE" as a face. People hated him and not in the way they should. He got over as a heel.

Cena was heel when his rapper gimmick got him over. Edge was "put over the top" with the Rated R Superstar heel gimmick. HBK became popular as The Heartbreak Kid - a heel gimmick.

I'll give you Warrior.

Shawn Michaels was pretty popular with the Rockers.

Ricky Steamboat, also.

I didn't know Steamboat was a Rocker.

This is true. Most great faces, always starts getting over as a heel first...

...Shawn Michaels, Razor Ramon, Diesel, Sid, Orton, Kane...

...alot of 'em.

I'm pretty sure the point she was making was that most successful stables started out as heel factions.
ABT supplemented that with the point that the very notion of a stable/faction implies semi-heel behavior. It's gang mentality and usually serves to give wrestlers an edge by having a crew.

So what is really the problem with those points?
I agree with both, tbh.

If it's so untrue, I'd like to see a list of notable stables that started out as faces. Citing that nWo and DX were huge face factions is irrelevant. A total red herring.
They started out as heel groups and functioned as such for some time. Just because they got super popular and sold merch, doesn't change that. That's because they were cool heels. That's like saying Stone Cold and The Rock didn't get over as heels because they ended up turning face in the same gimmick and selling lots of shirts. Has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

They were heels when they started. Fact not opinion. And I don't know why singles careers got dragged into the pot. But, I'm still drawing a blank on stables that started out as face factions. I'm sure there have to be a few, but I certainly can't think of any very successful ones at the moment.

I think first we need to focus on saving WrestleMania.

Goldberg started as a face.

This is all off topic. What about stables?

You look back in history, and most wrestlers who became great faces, were heel before that.

Misfits in Action :roll:

There haven't ever really been any good face stables.

Well, have you considered that maybe that's because by the time one gets to the top, they've been around a few years and they've seen a few gimmick or character changes?
That's the business. Especially with up and comers in the midcard. So you can look back on any rising career and pull out that they were once a heel.

Ewww, remember Survivor Series 97? There was all that gang warfare going on between Los Boricuas, DOA, and the NOD? Fucking brtl, as Spilchuk would say.

This is the point that people are trying to make.

Did you read what I said? Rock was a fucking joke in his inital face run his big break came as a cool heel. Orton was low midcard until he turned heel, Cena was low mid card until he turned heel, Edge was heel very shortly after he debuted and his first major run as a main evener was as a heel.

I was just pointing out that for a lot of guys being heel was where they really started to get over.

As for stables there have been two face stables in the past hmm 15 years or so The Union which was created directly from a heel table and the Filthy Animals

HHH got over in DX as a heel (and yes he was booed), Austin won KOTR and gave birth to Austin 3:16 as a heel, when I said got their break I mean just that the moment they started truly getting over.

BTW with Cena you are highlting my exact point, one of the best ways to eventually become a massively over face is to break into the main event scene as a cool heel.

Are you purposely being an idiot or something?

No no the argument isn't that faces were at some point heels it's that a lot of the major faces got to be major faces because of how over they got as heels right before they turned face.

The list includes: Rock, Austin, HHH, HBK, Randy Orton, John Cena, Batista, Razor Ramon, Diesel, Ric Flair and the list goes on.

Yeah I shouldn't have brought up singles, I was just making an observation that much like stables most of the major success stories of modern wrestling all got their big break as heels and all started getting over as heels.

Face factions tend to suck. Stables and factions are best suited for heels due to the numbers game.

If the good guys got organised, there would be very little drama.

Dude you're the one who misinterpreted what I meant by big break. I didn't explain myself I reiterated myself in response to our stupid assumption that some how big break = debut, I purposely stated big break because I knew guys such as the Rock actually debuted as faces.You're the only one who read it as debut.

I did read what you said on page 2 means shit, massively over faces who gpt over big time by soley being a face are rare and usually get that by way of the monster push IE: Goldberg Hogan, Warrior

I never claimed all Big faces went the get over as a heel first route I just pointed out that history reflects that a lot (maybe even most) of them did. There's a reason for that too, major success stories are performers who the fans chose, who the fans wanted to like, it's much easier to start off being hated and get people to like you by just doing your thing, then to be forced into a babyface role and basically demand people like you (IE Rocky Maivia). To be frank it was an observation I shouldn't have made as it derailed the thread clearly. End of story is no major Face faction in recent history has been massively successful without starting off as heels, if you want to argue against that you are arguing against reality.

CTC had potential to be a successful face faction. They had 3 charasmatic and very over guys who seemed to be a decent fit to run together, get JC back a bit to the "edgy" Cena of old, and possibly do some things to get Shad and JTG something other than released and Superstars hell respectively.

What we could have had is 3 merch movers, one of which has something other to do than main event so someone else can be in that spotlight for a bit, and a push of the other two as more than just a tag team that will inevitably be split to feud... kind of like a face version of Legacy.

What we got was one JBL limmo vandalized and no one ever spoke of this to be a stable again.

Stables are a far better fit for heels, and quite honestly, there's no face right now who screams stable leader to me in the WWE.

As for the idea that a lot of great face wrestlers/stables have gotten over first by being heels, I think it has less to do with the fact that they were heels first, and more to do with the fact that heels tend to be more well defined characters than faces, especially in the midcard. Heels tend to have some sort of defining "edge" that makes people hate them (cocky heel, monster heel, cowardly heel, etc etc), and even then, each performer has some sort of riff on that. Face, especially in the WWE, and especially first time face runs in the midcard, just tend to be "good guys."

Its harder to get behind someone without much of a hook...when the heels turn, they riff on their heel character and still have that edge about them. But the faces, well, they never had as much character to stand on.

The Filthy Animals
Revolution

Face stables :cool:

Yup I never said there weren't any just not many.

I already mentioned Filthy Animals :p

Touche on Revolution totally forgot that they started as faces (I remember only mostly their work as heels)

So that's 4 in the past 15 years or so that started as faces

Heel Stables: nWo, DX, Ministry, Corporation, Corporate Ministry, Evolution, McMahon-Helmsley Faction, The Alliance, Nexus, New Nexus, SES, The Corre, The Hart Foundation, The Nation of Domination, The Nation, and there's probably more

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I once asked a friend why in the world he liked The Union, and he simply answer by posing the counter-question, "What's not to like about Big Show, Mankind, Shamrock and Test walking around with 2x4s?"

Touche.

Business 101: "K.I.S.S. - Keep it simple, stupid."

Not a hugely successful stable, but could you say LWO started face? The story was Bischoff refused to push the Latino wrestlers and they felt they deserved the push.

If the lWo was face it was for about 3 minutes as their one and only feud was with Rey Jr and Kiman and they were around for a grand sum total of 3 months.

To be fair, with the WWE doing so well in Mexican markets, I kind of thought to myself the other day that the WWE could bring back the lWo. Should I be ashamed? Chavo Guerrero can be the leader, and you can maybe have Primo defect from RAW to join the group. Stick Los Aviadores from FCW with them, and you've got yourself a fun, but when grouped together sorta dangerous faction.

But many others have hit the nail on the head -- a bunch of faces working together makes them look weak individually. They can work, but it'd usually be out of a necessity to battle a larger foe. For example -- if a group formed to destroy Nexus or The Corre, it could be quite good.

Also, Lara Emily's points were spot-on in this thread. Do not know what CSL was spazzing on about. He's usually right on point, too.

Not such a good idea, if only for the fact that WWE would find a way to make them the Mexicools all over again.

That is a big break to me. Showing up on WWE TV is the very definition of a big break. It was quite obviously short-sighted to assume everybody else thinks the same way and by the responses it seems they do but I just read your comment and responded, I don't tend to put much more thought into posting than that. Call it different perspectives or something. But stupid assumption? Child please.

Show me where I'm doing anything but simply responding here. So many people's first reaction to disagreement on here is to jump to the 'taking it seriously'/getting angry line. Quite clearly no 'spazzing on' here Outback Jack.

Now can we get back 'on topic' or talk about Maryse's tatars or something?

Instead of adding a new faction it would be better if they gradually had Corre build themselves up as faces kinda like how DX did and I could see it happening eventually too.

You kept stating over an over that I didn't have a point, even though every one else in the thread knew what I was talking about (even if they didn't agree) then when I reiterated my point (not expanded, reiterated) for your benefit you claimed that as proof that I wasn't being clear earlier, again even though everyone else understood what I was saying. It's not a different a opinion, a different opinion would be I disagree with what you said here's why not you aren't saying anything, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Instead of invalidating my position based on your own misreading of my words, you could have asked for a clarification. Instead you cried that I didn't know what I was talking about and that I wasn't making a point, so sorry that's not a different perspective that's making a stupid assumption end of story.

Oh and saying whatever man I don't really think before I post, not exactly a winning argument either.

Have a nice day :)

A WWE version of World Elite

Members:

Alberto Del Rio - leader
World Heavyweight Champion that forms the stable

Drew McIntyre - midcarder
Possible Intercontinental/Tag Team Champion

Vladimir Kozlov - muscle
Possible Tag Team Champion

William Regal - manager
Regal would play the role Ric Flair did in Evolution.

fun fact as well when HHH took over DX and added X-Pac and NAO they were actually still heels. They still got boo'd a ton, though they got some pops too, but for the first while they still attacked faces and were still heels

Lets not forget the Oddities!

Started as heels

Let's just summarize.

1. I make an observation, a point if you will
2. Instead of discussing what I said. You claim several times over that I was made no point and that I clearly had no idea what I was trying to say. All that despite everyone else getting what I was saying (even if they don't agree)
3. I reiterate my point, restating pretty much exactly what I said earlier, for your benefit
4. You use my restatement as evidence that I initially had no point :|
5. I show you that both statements are consistent with each other
6. You say well I wasn't really putting thought in to my posts
7. QED

Anyway back on topic

From Day 1 Face Stables rarely work, are often boring and is not something that needs to happen.

I dunno I'm quite liking the concept of the heel stables atm. But I'm thinking some were down the line it'll end up The Core vs Nexus :)....

Few observations from this thread:

1) Surprisingly, Lara Emily is almost 100% in whatever he/she is saying. I almost completely agree with the observations made (I apologize - I'm not trying to be a 'dick', but I don't know if I am supposed to refer to you as a 'he' or 'she'....I apologize in advance).

2) I also really like the following stable idea proposed by Rated R Classic.



Perhaps in the future when one of Corre or Nexus dissolve, this stable can come to fruition. Nice thought. :y:

CSL i remember when you weren't a dick.

Yes, the missing KISS stable! Supposedly WCW was planning to make an entire stable of wrestlers dressed like the members of KISS!

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Personally, I'd rather see wrestler version of Spinal Tap. They can do the "get lost on the way to the ring" every week :yes:

Going back to 1997 Was DX originally planned as a HEEL stable?.

ooo the ECW Originals

I could see Miz and some dudes using it as a vehicle to turn face and make shitloads of cash.

As long as they get an awesome entrance.

Yes they were all heels, they feuded with the Hat Foundation yes but they were still heel, just like Corporation and Ministry were both heels when they feud with each other,

Oh good one, which means I can add New Breed to the heel stable list.